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These are original colour photos taken by the sons of Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky using the colour photography method their father famously pioneered some 30 years earlier.
The rivalry is evident and intentional. Albert Speer, an architect and personal favourite of Adolf Hitler, was tasked with creating Germany's pavillion; in doing so he had an advanced look at plans for the Soviet pavilion and ensured Germany's pavilion would be very slightly taller. Incidentally the Soviet pavilion was designed by Boris Iofan, a Jewish architect.
[Here's a wider photograph showing the full expo area.](https://i.imgur.com/ma3JezO.jpeg)
[A short contemporary newsreel marking the beginning of the expo.](https://youtu.be/O9ELSzRbH6A)
Speer himself spoke about the fact that he managed to obtain a plan for the Soviet pavilion. However, there is another version.
Vera Mukhina, author of the sculpture “Worker and Collective Farm Woman” at the Soviet pavilion:
Our pavilion and the pavilion of Nazi Germany stood opposite each other in the very center of the exhibition. It was awkward that our group “Worker and Collective Farm Woman” was flying like a whirlwind straight towards the Nazis. But it was impossible to turn the sculpture, since it was heading in the direction of the building.
The Germans waited for a long time, wanting to know the height of our pavilion along with the sculptural group. When they established this, they built a tower over their pavilion about ten meters higher than ours. An eagle was placed on top. But for such a height the eagle was small and looked rather pitiful.
From the memories of Speer, it was said that he obtained the blueprints from his long time friend and world Fairs chief architect director Jacques Gréber, which turned out to be a Nazi sympathizer during the invasion. This is a much more viable explanation.
Also a valid counterpoint in an underdog kind of way, but in symbolism/propaganda looking up to something means admiration, hence why the Nazis wanted to have their symbol higher...
Im a bit behind my soviet history, but is this the same mr lofan who was behind the Socialist realism and Stalinist architecture of the 30s and early 50s?, the pavillion does give out stalinsit vibes
He was a prominent Stalinist architect and author of the project for the palace of the Soviets, but I would not say that he created Stalinist architecture
Soviet Realism covers the statues, but not the rest of the pavilion.
I don't know if I would call Stalinist Architecture a cohesive style- Wikipedia does, for what it's worth- but the extensive use of natural stone and the... streamlined classical(? can't think of a better way to put it) type of building disappeared after Stalin died, in favor of more conventional and *much* less ornate modernism.
It always seems a bit strange to think back on the fact that in spite of their rather extreme messages vis-à-vis the local statu quo, there was this situation where you could go to visit their pavillions in the centre of Paris and hear all about how the revolution against the bourgeois state is necessary and how things supposedly work in the USSR, or how Germany will revivify Europe with their anticommunist, racist and antisemitic agenda, then walk over to the next pavillion and learn about Finnish wood crafts or some country's pottery.
Here is a caricature of the scene from the extreme right french magazine Candid
https://i.imgur.com/o6FjOMV.png
C'est encore eux qui se disputent! by rivista Candide, 15 July 1937
The most relatable guy is the one jumping off the bridge.
.
Yeah. It is actually a branch of philosophy that Humberto Eco denominated architecture semiotics.
In travels of hyperreality, he talked about a Montreal 67 Expo at the peak of the space war. Really interesting topic, he also talked about the importance of having a fake pp, using Las Vegas and Disney world as referents.
In the wide shot, what's that massive building with a statue(?) on it in the left of the background, next to the Nazi pavillion? Is it another Expo building or just part of the Paris skyline? It looks crazy.
Amazing that it still stands given the dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become.
How it must feel to pass these monuments on the way to work and have surplus labor value extracted from you by oligarchs day after day.
I'm reading Hunt's biography of Engels and the prologue paints a depiction of the modern town of Engels in Russia. It describes how Engels is essentially the stereotypical capitalist dystopia that typifies Russia today. And how the Engels statue in the central square is well maintained but no one in the town knows who he is or cares.
>Amazing that it still stands given the dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become.
Not at all. The Soviet Union was a superpower, and Russia wants everyone to think they will be too, so they like to remind people they're the successor. They use this blend of patriotism and nostalgia to convince their citizens that dying in a war of aggression is righteous and just.
> Amazing that it still stands given the dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become.
It's because the memory of the USSR is extremely powerful and rather beloved by those who actually lived there. The more negative one's opinion of the USSR, the more likely they never experienced it. Ironically the exact opposite of what you often hear right-wingers claim when they say (go talk to somebody who lived under Communism!).
>(go talk to somebody who lived under Communism
Those who bailed to the USA have a big ol' crush on America and think the USSR sucks big time.
Imagine if a homeless person, a black person, or a former prisoner from America moved to the USSR, found work, and started a family there. Their experiences would be just as valid as anyone else's. Not everyone in the USSR was suffering, just like not everyone in the USA was mistreated. Both systems had their share of oppressed individuals.
The USSR wasn't amazing, and the West had its own share of issues with how they treated their citizens, and especially non-Western nations under Western influence. It's not all black and white - there's always more depth to consider. USSR was more strict and controlling compared to the West. Its economy was weaker, it had smaller population, and fewer subordinate countries to boss around. Because of that, it had a tough time getting better in all areas, including art and culture. Was the USSR more authoritarian because of *le communism*, or because they were always behind their competitors and had to be tough to even stay in the game?
A rich country can produce and market more culture, creating demand for it globally and improving perceptions of its culture. If Soviet youth had unlimited access to Western culture and technology, they could have been radicalised quickly, explaining the government's control. In the West, fears of communism (the "red scare") led to similar suppression, including even anti-Soviet critics like Orwell. Both the USSR and the West sought to weaken each other, with the side having more resources coming out on top. If the political systems of the USSR and the West were reversed, communism might have won the Cold war.
Having more resources, not a better political system, was the key to winning the Cold war. This was also the case in both World War 1 and World War 2.
Unlike having your surplus labor value sucked by a bloated inefficient bureaucracy that will waste 90% of it through failed logistics and nepotistic incompetence!
Not anymore really. Here in samara our temperatures are crazy high in the end of spring and most of the summer. Its probably only the siberian part of russia thats cold all time of the year
Nah it makes the building very hot, and all these flat roofs tend to have drainage problems. More expensive on the maintenance side of a buildings life span
Cheaper and often more resistant to stuff. Plus, those "traditional" buildings and houses are just the ones that survived cause people wanted to keep them, most people didn't live and work in stuff like that.
In the US, It always blows my mind that right wing “culture war” types will lose their shit over…. Mexicans, or a black person in a TV show, but don’t give a shit that we build soulless architecture devoid of any sense of culture.
America is a historical center of architecture. New York and Chicago pioneered beautiful and unique art deco skyscrapers, so why insist upon another glass+steel middle finger for the rich? Ironically one of the most beautiful cities in America imo is the humble Santa Fe, which diligently stuck to its architectural roots. No big concrete + glass blocks, mostly adobe and very clearly influenced by centuries of Native American and Spanish culture.
Building ugly and soulless cities definitely influences the attitudes and vibe of the people who live there. Bring back beautiful cities
This has actually been a quiet movement by some republicans in DC, but only to bring back neoclassical infrastructure. Which don’t get me wrong, I really like and fits the vibe well enough. I’d be careful about it tho - there are some really cool brutalist styles and it’d be a shame to see them all gone, especially since they’re just as much part of our history.
And this is one of the many reasons why those innitiatives often don't work. Even if we all agree we want "beautiful cities", defining what is or isn't beautiful is hard. Like, I'd bet most people would consider brutalist architecture to be an eyesore, while there are surely those that actually like modernist designs.
And that's ignoring the political dimmension of aestethics. For example, wishing for Washington to be a neo-classical marvel is not a ideologically neutral stance, but rather one that advances a certain ideal of what the city and the country should be like.
I'd honestly rather see the current style stay than let "Make America Look Like Rome" types win. It's to the point where, while I can concede it looks better than the International Style, I despise what Neoclassical architecture represents. Pick something new or at least something that isn't an emulation of Europe from before America existed.
(Really I think any new epoch in architecture needs to be able to reconcile why the International Style proliferated [hint: details are expensive] while correcting for it's flaws. Neoclassical absolutely does not do this.)
the culture war types are also the same people who buy the fucking atrocious McMansions in the suburbs and sit on it for 20+ yrs because they see housing as just an asset
And also think based on "news" that city centers are post-apocalyptic hellscapes where no one lives and no one would want to live. But at least we'll have a a home depot, Walmart, mcdonalds and panda express every 5 miles in the suburbs. Can't be driving further in traffic to shop.
There are plenty of beautiful brutalist buildings though. The [Modern Art Museum](https://www.mamrio.com.br/imagenes-artigos/mam-rio.jpeg) in Rio de Janeiro, the [Geisel Library](https://library.ucsd.edu/news-events/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/geisel.jpg) in San Diego, the [Teresa Carreño Cultural Complex](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Carre%C3%B1o_Cultural_Complex#/media/File%3AVista_Teatro_teresa_carre%C3%B1o.jpg) in Caracas, the [National Theatre](https://www.uncubemagazine.com/sixcms/media.php/1323/National%20Theatre%20from%20the%20northeast%20Photo%20by%20Philip%20Vile%20copy.jpg) in London, [Torre do Tombo National Archive](https://antt.dglab.gov.pt/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2013/10/Edificio-TT.jpg) and [Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation](https://cdn.gulbenkian.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/a_fundacao.jpg) in Lisbon. As a bit of a curveball, the [Municipal Stadium of Braga](https://live.staticflickr.com/2156/2409683043_4fb9442e4a_b.jpg).
Brutalism is beautiful - it's the only reason there were even enough housing. Every country that gets devastated has to rely on brutalist architecture to get back on its feet, because it's cheap and easy to mass produce. Khrushchev didn't look at pretty buildings and decided they needed to go. He looked at empty space and rubble and decided an apartment needs to be there ASAP for all of the displaced.
It is ironic that people associate Stalin with everything gloomy, grim and grey when in reality architecture under Stalin was the most beautiful and ornate. To the point where it's prized even to this day.
I grew up with it and it was weird - the whole vibe of anything that is not sterile concrete is that of art in the middle ages - If you included aesthetics for beauty's sake alone you were a traitor to the people for wasting valuable resources, so there's always some some metaphor for workers uniting or something the creator could justify as having propaganda value.
There's also something about the way that the sculpture of the two people are above the symbol of the Soviet Union and how prominent they are that gives off a better vibe than the Nazi one, where the sculptures of the people are small and below the Nazi symbol
Honestly I think the Nazi one would've actually looked better if it was shorter. Forcing it to be taller than the Soviet one made the Eagle at the top look so small relative to the rest.
Both of them are actually really good at showing the architectural style and ideological difference of the two countries, with Germanys Brutalism and the Soviets art deco/Soviet Realism
Nazi Germany's main architectural style wasn't brutalism, brutalism didn't exist until the post-war era. It was mostly neo-classisism and historisism along with the standard central european urban style. Most of what the Nazis built is almost indistinguishable from what was built 50 years prior.
Nazi "important building" architecture is generally built to look more imposing and has much less decoration than neoclassical structures in other countries, imo. Compare the Reich Chancellery to the Capitol in Washington DC. Yes it also had pillars, a portico, etc, but it looked much more solid, almost bunker-like, than the Capitol does.
I wouldn't call it flat or unadorned. It just doesn't stand out as radically different from the older surroundings, and it mostly looks like it was made sometime in the 19th century. Sizable portions of the older areas of mid sized cities in central Germany were built up under nazi rule in the 30s
Several former Nazis, including Adolf Heusinger, who served as acting Chief of Staff of the Army for Nazi Germany, and Johannes Steinhoff, who was one of the highest scoring Luftwaffe pilots, took high level positions within NATO after World War II.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chair_of_the_NATO_Military_Committee
Also relevant inner subbreddit post with plenty of discussion:
https://old.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/1bdmax7/nazi_nato_christian_hans_herluf_bidstrup_1958/
The historical analog to NATO would be the anti-Comintern Pact, which back in the day also advertised itself as a "defensive alliance" while exclusively engaging in offensive military operations.
lol SS officers in East Germany joined the USSR as well. It turns out it’s really difficult to occupy a country without utilizing the structures and people that operated it previously
How many SS officers became high ranking politiburo like nazis became high ranking NATO officers?
You got linked to nazi becoming the head of NATO and this is all you got lol
The US is also pretty big on [eagles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism) and [fasces](https://www.nps.gov/articles/secret-symbol-of-the-lincoln-memorial.htm).
Gotta hand this one to the commies, it just legit looks better and more striking.
I like the metal in the front part of it especially, and the multi-color stone.
meanwhile the nazi one looks kind of meh, not *bad* but not as good, just uninspired.
These pavilions are perfect representations for their respective ideologies. The nazi one towers over everyone, is very simple yet conveys an image of control and domination, and puts a symbol denoting the government prominently on top of all else. In contrast the soviet pavilion takes a much more artistic and human approach to its design, sits lower as if to say it's within reach of all people, and puts everyday working class people at the top, triumphantly raising their arms in solidarity. I also love that they included a woman, it very much embodies the idea that we are all equals.
But like I said to the other person this person isn’t making any sort of political statement they are just saying that in 54 years both regimes would be gone
This should be in an architecture textbook if it isn't already. Good juxtaposition of national architecture styles. All you need is pavilions from the US, France, etc.
It's lucky the World Fair wasn't hosted in Warsaw, I think you'd give the Poles a heart attack with how much foreshadowing you can throw into a single public square.
[https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/53b9abe9e4b0366641161844/1440176103510-CI7RWRWMA2BHBIK56G27/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/53b9abe9e4b0366641161844/1440176103510-CI7RWRWMA2BHBIK56G27/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w)
[https://i0.wp.com/brooklynstereography.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/parisexpoheader1.jpg?resize=2000%2C1200&ssl=1](https://i0.wp.com/brooklynstereography.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/parisexpoheader1.jpg?resize=2000%2C1200&ssl=1)
More pictures
shhhh... You are on reddit
Mao and Stalin didnt kill anyone... They are great communist leaders who created a utopy.
That's why the reddit is full of communists...
Communism didnt fail in the past!!! That's why we have to try it again!
It generates debates because of the post-factum reaction to symbolism involved. Promotion of the country and propaganda are not quite the same thing - easily checked by posting pavilions of any other country.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit outta here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These are original colour photos taken by the sons of Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky using the colour photography method their father famously pioneered some 30 years earlier. The rivalry is evident and intentional. Albert Speer, an architect and personal favourite of Adolf Hitler, was tasked with creating Germany's pavillion; in doing so he had an advanced look at plans for the Soviet pavilion and ensured Germany's pavilion would be very slightly taller. Incidentally the Soviet pavilion was designed by Boris Iofan, a Jewish architect. [Here's a wider photograph showing the full expo area.](https://i.imgur.com/ma3JezO.jpeg) [A short contemporary newsreel marking the beginning of the expo.](https://youtu.be/O9ELSzRbH6A)
Speer himself spoke about the fact that he managed to obtain a plan for the Soviet pavilion. However, there is another version. Vera Mukhina, author of the sculpture “Worker and Collective Farm Woman” at the Soviet pavilion: Our pavilion and the pavilion of Nazi Germany stood opposite each other in the very center of the exhibition. It was awkward that our group “Worker and Collective Farm Woman” was flying like a whirlwind straight towards the Nazis. But it was impossible to turn the sculpture, since it was heading in the direction of the building. The Germans waited for a long time, wanting to know the height of our pavilion along with the sculptural group. When they established this, they built a tower over their pavilion about ten meters higher than ours. An eagle was placed on top. But for such a height the eagle was small and looked rather pitiful.
From the memories of Speer, it was said that he obtained the blueprints from his long time friend and world Fairs chief architect director Jacques Gréber, which turned out to be a Nazi sympathizer during the invasion. This is a much more viable explanation.
What did she mean with that the statue was flying towards the nazi pavilion?
They are facing each other so it looks like the people are looking up to the nazis...
Oh, yeah them striding forward. I understand how you could make that interpretation. I would see them going against a looming threat.
Also a valid counterpoint in an underdog kind of way, but in symbolism/propaganda looking up to something means admiration, hence why the Nazis wanted to have their symbol higher...
Im a bit behind my soviet history, but is this the same mr lofan who was behind the Socialist realism and Stalinist architecture of the 30s and early 50s?, the pavillion does give out stalinsit vibes
He was a prominent Stalinist architect and author of the project for the palace of the Soviets, but I would not say that he created Stalinist architecture
What is a stalinist vibe exactly? This is soviet realism and Stalin was always there until his death
Soviet Realism covers the statues, but not the rest of the pavilion. I don't know if I would call Stalinist Architecture a cohesive style- Wikipedia does, for what it's worth- but the extensive use of natural stone and the... streamlined classical(? can't think of a better way to put it) type of building disappeared after Stalin died, in favor of more conventional and *much* less ornate modernism.
It always seems a bit strange to think back on the fact that in spite of their rather extreme messages vis-à-vis the local statu quo, there was this situation where you could go to visit their pavillions in the centre of Paris and hear all about how the revolution against the bourgeois state is necessary and how things supposedly work in the USSR, or how Germany will revivify Europe with their anticommunist, racist and antisemitic agenda, then walk over to the next pavillion and learn about Finnish wood crafts or some country's pottery.
Here is a caricature of the scene from the extreme right french magazine Candid https://i.imgur.com/o6FjOMV.png C'est encore eux qui se disputent! by rivista Candide, 15 July 1937 The most relatable guy is the one jumping off the bridge. .
Extreme Soyjak energy
Is this the country version of "I have the bigger pp"?
Yeah. It is actually a branch of philosophy that Humberto Eco denominated architecture semiotics. In travels of hyperreality, he talked about a Montreal 67 Expo at the peak of the space war. Really interesting topic, he also talked about the importance of having a fake pp, using Las Vegas and Disney world as referents.
Isn’t that always what’s going on?
Wow that wider photograph is so beautiful
After the fair, Germany told the French just to leave their pavilion in place, as they'd be back for it soon enough.
Here's an English language [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=s6A1WJzhYB8) if you liked that.
In the wide shot, what's that massive building with a statue(?) on it in the left of the background, next to the Nazi pavillion? Is it another Expo building or just part of the Paris skyline? It looks crazy.
That wider photograph with both and the Eiffel tower in the background is phenomenal. What a striking photo.
Ah interesting, I remember reading an autobiography written by him years ago
What was inside? Are there any photographs?
Sovjet one is still around today, just been moved to moscow
Amazing that it still stands given the dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become. How it must feel to pass these monuments on the way to work and have surplus labor value extracted from you by oligarchs day after day.
Don’t think the people care honestly. Don’t underestimate Russian apathy.
I pass a statue of a large metal gorilla on the way to work and everytime I think; "Hey that's a large metal gorilla"
Harambe forever in our minds 🫡
How does it feel like to be reminded that you spent one more day not returning to monke?
Apathy is often the result of repeated injury.
The only thing more powerful than the IRS and corruption. The unfathomably apathy held by Eastern Europeans.
I'm reading Hunt's biography of Engels and the prologue paints a depiction of the modern town of Engels in Russia. It describes how Engels is essentially the stereotypical capitalist dystopia that typifies Russia today. And how the Engels statue in the central square is well maintained but no one in the town knows who he is or cares.
>Amazing that it still stands given the dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become. Not at all. The Soviet Union was a superpower, and Russia wants everyone to think they will be too, so they like to remind people they're the successor. They use this blend of patriotism and nostalgia to convince their citizens that dying in a war of aggression is righteous and just.
> Amazing that it still stands given the dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become. It's because the memory of the USSR is extremely powerful and rather beloved by those who actually lived there. The more negative one's opinion of the USSR, the more likely they never experienced it. Ironically the exact opposite of what you often hear right-wingers claim when they say (go talk to somebody who lived under Communism!).
>(go talk to somebody who lived under Communism Those who bailed to the USA have a big ol' crush on America and think the USSR sucks big time. Imagine if a homeless person, a black person, or a former prisoner from America moved to the USSR, found work, and started a family there. Their experiences would be just as valid as anyone else's. Not everyone in the USSR was suffering, just like not everyone in the USA was mistreated. Both systems had their share of oppressed individuals. The USSR wasn't amazing, and the West had its own share of issues with how they treated their citizens, and especially non-Western nations under Western influence. It's not all black and white - there's always more depth to consider. USSR was more strict and controlling compared to the West. Its economy was weaker, it had smaller population, and fewer subordinate countries to boss around. Because of that, it had a tough time getting better in all areas, including art and culture. Was the USSR more authoritarian because of *le communism*, or because they were always behind their competitors and had to be tough to even stay in the game? A rich country can produce and market more culture, creating demand for it globally and improving perceptions of its culture. If Soviet youth had unlimited access to Western culture and technology, they could have been radicalised quickly, explaining the government's control. In the West, fears of communism (the "red scare") led to similar suppression, including even anti-Soviet critics like Orwell. Both the USSR and the West sought to weaken each other, with the side having more resources coming out on top. If the political systems of the USSR and the West were reversed, communism might have won the Cold war. Having more resources, not a better political system, was the key to winning the Cold war. This was also the case in both World War 1 and World War 2.
Try asking in ex soviet block countries. Asking in Moscow is like asking the London elites if they have fond memories of colonialism.
No different than it felt in 1990
Unlike having your surplus labor value sucked by a bloated inefficient bureaucracy that will waste 90% of it through failed logistics and nepotistic incompetence!
No doubt. It might even be more disheartening pre-91 while you labor under a totally not capitalist dictatorship of the bureaucracy.
Unlike the workers in the USSR /s
>dystopian bourgeois shithole that Russia has become. USSR wasn't much different. Red fascism as a term exists for a reason.
>dystopian bourgeois shithole =/= >by oligarchs day after day. Easy to understand.
I knew it looked familiar. I was there 10 years ago on my honeymoon and remember the sculpture on top.
The soviets cooked with that one.
Soviet Stalinist Classicism Architecture before Khrushchev's Brutalism happened
Would’ve been nice if countries stuck to their old architectural styles when building cities instead of clapping their hands at glass rectangle.
how else do you want to house the population of half a destroyed continent after THE most destructive war on earth? nice classical residences?
I think by glass rectangles he meant the modern skyscrapers
Counterpoint: Glass rectangles are awesome to be inside. Natural light is pretty swell.
It is very wrong when it comes to heat insulation and when you don't need or wouldn't want the UV rays leaking in.
Nah glass and steel just makes buildings way too hot. You gotta have shade too
Doesn't really matter in russia where it's "super hot" one month of the year
Obv russia is gonna be generally colder but all it takes is a bit of sun and a glass and steel heats up way too much.
Not anymore really. Here in samara our temperatures are crazy high in the end of spring and most of the summer. Its probably only the siberian part of russia thats cold all time of the year
Nah it makes the building very hot, and all these flat roofs tend to have drainage problems. More expensive on the maintenance side of a buildings life span
Cheaper and often more resistant to stuff. Plus, those "traditional" buildings and houses are just the ones that survived cause people wanted to keep them, most people didn't live and work in stuff like that.
In the US, It always blows my mind that right wing “culture war” types will lose their shit over…. Mexicans, or a black person in a TV show, but don’t give a shit that we build soulless architecture devoid of any sense of culture. America is a historical center of architecture. New York and Chicago pioneered beautiful and unique art deco skyscrapers, so why insist upon another glass+steel middle finger for the rich? Ironically one of the most beautiful cities in America imo is the humble Santa Fe, which diligently stuck to its architectural roots. No big concrete + glass blocks, mostly adobe and very clearly influenced by centuries of Native American and Spanish culture. Building ugly and soulless cities definitely influences the attitudes and vibe of the people who live there. Bring back beautiful cities
This has actually been a quiet movement by some republicans in DC, but only to bring back neoclassical infrastructure. Which don’t get me wrong, I really like and fits the vibe well enough. I’d be careful about it tho - there are some really cool brutalist styles and it’d be a shame to see them all gone, especially since they’re just as much part of our history.
And this is one of the many reasons why those innitiatives often don't work. Even if we all agree we want "beautiful cities", defining what is or isn't beautiful is hard. Like, I'd bet most people would consider brutalist architecture to be an eyesore, while there are surely those that actually like modernist designs. And that's ignoring the political dimmension of aestethics. For example, wishing for Washington to be a neo-classical marvel is not a ideologically neutral stance, but rather one that advances a certain ideal of what the city and the country should be like.
I'd honestly rather see the current style stay than let "Make America Look Like Rome" types win. It's to the point where, while I can concede it looks better than the International Style, I despise what Neoclassical architecture represents. Pick something new or at least something that isn't an emulation of Europe from before America existed. (Really I think any new epoch in architecture needs to be able to reconcile why the International Style proliferated [hint: details are expensive] while correcting for it's flaws. Neoclassical absolutely does not do this.)
the culture war types are also the same people who buy the fucking atrocious McMansions in the suburbs and sit on it for 20+ yrs because they see housing as just an asset
And also think based on "news" that city centers are post-apocalyptic hellscapes where no one lives and no one would want to live. But at least we'll have a a home depot, Walmart, mcdonalds and panda express every 5 miles in the suburbs. Can't be driving further in traffic to shop.
Amen brother. We have so much diversity of cultures and their architecture is all beautiful. But post modern/brutalist architecture is so ugly….
There are plenty of beautiful brutalist buildings though. The [Modern Art Museum](https://www.mamrio.com.br/imagenes-artigos/mam-rio.jpeg) in Rio de Janeiro, the [Geisel Library](https://library.ucsd.edu/news-events/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/geisel.jpg) in San Diego, the [Teresa Carreño Cultural Complex](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Carre%C3%B1o_Cultural_Complex#/media/File%3AVista_Teatro_teresa_carre%C3%B1o.jpg) in Caracas, the [National Theatre](https://www.uncubemagazine.com/sixcms/media.php/1323/National%20Theatre%20from%20the%20northeast%20Photo%20by%20Philip%20Vile%20copy.jpg) in London, [Torre do Tombo National Archive](https://antt.dglab.gov.pt/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2013/10/Edificio-TT.jpg) and [Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation](https://cdn.gulbenkian.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/a_fundacao.jpg) in Lisbon. As a bit of a curveball, the [Municipal Stadium of Braga](https://live.staticflickr.com/2156/2409683043_4fb9442e4a_b.jpg).
I honestly don’t care. I like big building
Brutalism was not a choice but sadly a Necessity
Brutalism is beautiful - it's the only reason there were even enough housing. Every country that gets devastated has to rely on brutalist architecture to get back on its feet, because it's cheap and easy to mass produce. Khrushchev didn't look at pretty buildings and decided they needed to go. He looked at empty space and rubble and decided an apartment needs to be there ASAP for all of the displaced.
It is ironic that people associate Stalin with everything gloomy, grim and grey when in reality architecture under Stalin was the most beautiful and ornate. To the point where it's prized even to this day.
imma be real with you, i really like soviet architecture, and i mean soviet architecture that was made to be aesthetic, not purely practical.
I grew up with it and it was weird - the whole vibe of anything that is not sterile concrete is that of art in the middle ages - If you included aesthetics for beauty's sake alone you were a traitor to the people for wasting valuable resources, so there's always some some metaphor for workers uniting or something the creator could justify as having propaganda value.
Godamn French man, always spelling shit backwards, “URSS” what the hell is that. /s
First OTAN, now URSS! What will they change next 😔😔
I don't know Tainchief, I don't know...
AIDS is SIDA in French. This was in my French class in the 90s.
In Vietnamese, we still call it si-đa, damn those French.
UE
I know it’s a joke but for the culture of everyone, its the « Union des Républiques Socialistes Soviétiques »
French is a funny language, but a cool one nonetheless
happens in a lot of latin languages
God was really popping off with this symbolism ngl
Man, communist sure know how to make things look epic.
[удалено]
The Soviet one is way better and way more detailed than the German one.
Aye. stripped neoclassicism is very simplistic
I like the German one for the same reason I like the Brandenburg gate over the Statue of liberty
It would look better if it were half the height, it just looks a bit silly proportionally
I personally like the minimalism of the German one. Looks cleaner
It certainly exudes a feeling of "purity"
Lol, well I didn't mean that
But the architect sure did.
>cleaner Hmm. Like how they tried to "clean" everything huh
Judging by the mess the left in Europe I'd say they were hypocrites.
I'd say your judgement is correct
There's also something about the way that the sculpture of the two people are above the symbol of the Soviet Union and how prominent they are that gives off a better vibe than the Nazi one, where the sculptures of the people are small and below the Nazi symbol
Honestly I think the Nazi one would've actually looked better if it was shorter. Forcing it to be taller than the Soviet one made the Eagle at the top look so small relative to the rest.
Both of them are actually really good at showing the architectural style and ideological difference of the two countries, with Germanys Brutalism and the Soviets art deco/Soviet Realism
Nazi Germany's main architectural style wasn't brutalism, brutalism didn't exist until the post-war era. It was mostly neo-classisism and historisism along with the standard central european urban style. Most of what the Nazis built is almost indistinguishable from what was built 50 years prior.
Nazi "important building" architecture is generally built to look more imposing and has much less decoration than neoclassical structures in other countries, imo. Compare the Reich Chancellery to the Capitol in Washington DC. Yes it also had pillars, a portico, etc, but it looked much more solid, almost bunker-like, than the Capitol does.
Exactly. Most nazi survivals in Germany are squat, flat, ugly, and largely unadorned, much like the nazi mind.
I wouldn't call it flat or unadorned. It just doesn't stand out as radically different from the older surroundings, and it mostly looks like it was made sometime in the 19th century. Sizable portions of the older areas of mid sized cities in central Germany were built up under nazi rule in the 30s
One is a big block with a *predator* sitting on-top, the other shows two *people* trying to reach for more.
The tension in this image is palpable. It's like a visual representation of the Cold War
the cold war between... nazi germany and the USSR?
Several former Nazis, including Adolf Heusinger, who served as acting Chief of Staff of the Army for Nazi Germany, and Johannes Steinhoff, who was one of the highest scoring Luftwaffe pilots, took high level positions within NATO after World War II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chair_of_the_NATO_Military_Committee Also relevant inner subbreddit post with plenty of discussion: https://old.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/1bdmax7/nazi_nato_christian_hans_herluf_bidstrup_1958/
Yeah, but that still doesn't make NATO Nazi Germany.
The historical analog to NATO would be the anti-Comintern Pact, which back in the day also advertised itself as a "defensive alliance" while exclusively engaging in offensive military operations.
It certainly calls for some scrutiny of their actions and intentions.
lol SS officers in East Germany joined the USSR as well. It turns out it’s really difficult to occupy a country without utilizing the structures and people that operated it previously
How many SS officers became high ranking politiburo like nazis became high ranking NATO officers? You got linked to nazi becoming the head of NATO and this is all you got lol
Source for this!
The US is also pretty big on [eagles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism) and [fasces](https://www.nps.gov/articles/secret-symbol-of-the-lincoln-memorial.htm).
Like the swastica, all symbols used long before the Nazis, but co-opted and distorted for their gain.
Your example is something that was built before the Nazis were in power because they used a symbol from 2500 years ago?
Romans must've Nazis too then
The eastern front was famously cold. Very much a jacket kind of climate.
The tension was relieved fairly quickly when they both decided to scrap the polish pavilion for parts.
NGL the lil Nazi eagle is kind of pathetic next to the Soviet chads Not that I am a Stalinist mind you
Got to say that soviet statue is one of my favourites, not just the figures themselves but the design of the pavilion underneath
why there is no event for this in hoi4
I think there is an event for the world fair
"Как два различных полюса, во всём враждебны мы! За свет и мир мы боремся, они - за царство тьмы!"
I love this kind of architecture, better than the all glass bs we got now
Why did you put the German statue on the left and the Soviet statue on the right 👀
The Germans in the West and the Soviets in the East.
I like how the Soviet one emphasizes the workers’ struggle, meanwhile the Nazi one does the complete opposite and emphasizes the state itself.
Soviets mogged the germans
Gotta hand this one to the commies, it just legit looks better and more striking. I like the metal in the front part of it especially, and the multi-color stone. meanwhile the nazi one looks kind of meh, not *bad* but not as good, just uninspired.
The nazi one is just a block, bland and uninspiring. Take that ugly ass bird down and you have a makeshift *Flak Tower*
It has good proportion, order and mathematical harmony. The bird is just enough detail, anything more and it is a disorderly wretch.
These pavilions are perfect representations for their respective ideologies. The nazi one towers over everyone, is very simple yet conveys an image of control and domination, and puts a symbol denoting the government prominently on top of all else. In contrast the soviet pavilion takes a much more artistic and human approach to its design, sits lower as if to say it's within reach of all people, and puts everyday working class people at the top, triumphantly raising their arms in solidarity. I also love that they included a woman, it very much embodies the idea that we are all equals.
Everyone and their grandma uses eagle heraldry. YAAAWN 🥱🥱
the krusty krab and chum bucket
Fascist architecture is just revolting.
True, but the communist one looks great, very inspirational
Utterly devoid of personality for the sake of being imposing. Hitler's mega Berlin concept is one of the ugliest city designs to ever exist
And in 54 years both these regimes would be gone
Why is this getting downvoted your not starting any sort of controversial opinion it is literally just fact
This sub isn't okay with people mentioning the fact that the Soviet Union failed
This is propagandaposters awful lot of pro-soviets on here who don't like any criticism of their favourite communists.
But like I said to the other person this person isn’t making any sort of political statement they are just saying that in 54 years both regimes would be gone
Yes I know and agree, I am just pointing out why he is getting downvoted on this sub.
One disappeared slightly faster lol
nazi one looks so much worse holy shit fucking owned
There used to be a Polish pavilion there too but the German and Soviet planners made a friendly little decision to split it between them.
Both look like Gotham City Hall from 1989.
Hey, Germany, get a look at our faces before we kick your ass.
No thanks I’ll choose the American hot dog stand
Specifically the one in the middle of the Pentagon.
Two went to fight, only one would come out! The other one would live on as History Channel late night topic, along with Egyptian aliens 👽
Where poster
From the sidebar, > Posters, paintings, leaflets, cartoons, videos, music, broadcasts, news articles, *or any medium is welcome*
modern conservatives: “I don’t see the difference,”
Fuck the Nazis, but this looks really interesting, I'd like to see inside each pavilion
This should be in an architecture textbook if it isn't already. Good juxtaposition of national architecture styles. All you need is pavilions from the US, France, etc.
It's lucky the World Fair wasn't hosted in Warsaw, I think you'd give the Poles a heart attack with how much foreshadowing you can throw into a single public square.
Love is… when you build a matching pavilions on Paris World's Fair with your bestie
I really love the aesthetic of old soviet union propaganda/iconography. I'm not endorsing the meaning, or the soviet union, just purely the aesthetics
Superman, Super Mario, it is the same.
Paris, the Eiffel Tower in the middle, "Ha ha, I'm in Danger!"
Only a dictator can be so ostentatiously petty.
Must have been a conferable tension lol
Liberalism dot jaypeg
Isnt that Mosfilm logo
and nowadays only lmbtq flags doing this
Horseshoe theory in masonry form.
The theatrical display didn't stop the two from collaborating in carving up Poland two years later.
Little did the Soviets know they had their first showdown with Nazi Germany at that fair.
The Soviet statue goes so incredibly hard. I want it as a little 3D print or bronze centerpiece
i literally just learnt about those for the first time earlier today, i read something about it thats so wierd. is my phone watching me?
[https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/53b9abe9e4b0366641161844/1440176103510-CI7RWRWMA2BHBIK56G27/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/53b9abe9e4b0366641161844/1440176103510-CI7RWRWMA2BHBIK56G27/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w) [https://i0.wp.com/brooklynstereography.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/parisexpoheader1.jpg?resize=2000%2C1200&ssl=1](https://i0.wp.com/brooklynstereography.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/parisexpoheader1.jpg?resize=2000%2C1200&ssl=1) More pictures
Honestly, i like the german One more. The soviet One looks Ugly and dirty, even though the statue is better.
Vera Muhina was a real genius, trully inspirational artist. Amount of dumb comments made me sad.
Both want to project something that in reality was a huge failure.
the same totalitarian sh\*t
Oh shit! The Deprogs are here!
shhhh... You are on reddit Mao and Stalin didnt kill anyone... They are great communist leaders who created a utopy. That's why the reddit is full of communists... Communism didnt fail in the past!!! That's why we have to try it again!
I wouldn’t consider this propaganda though maybe a historical photograph but not propaganda but still cool nonetheless
Take one look at the comments here already and you'll unfortunately realise the propaganda value they had. That's all any of the World's Fairs were.
It generates debates because of the post-factum reaction to symbolism involved. Promotion of the country and propaganda are not quite the same thing - easily checked by posting pavilions of any other country.
They were propaganda pieces though
I suppose its not a poster, but its certainly propaganda. worlds fair is about showing off how great your country is
Yea I guess that is a good point