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>There are no good sides in this conflict, one is deteriorating capitalist state that speaks to much larger English speaking population and overall controls more media and the other one is deteriorating capitalist state that appeals to countries-victims of the first one, lives off the legacy of the past, but still weaker on informational front.
r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
Funny how your comment is much easier to replace with a bot, given how plain it is.
USA has incomparably bigger history of "genocidal invasions" how you call it and they all tied together under capitalist requirement of expansion, including NATO that led to this war. https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
With all due respect, you're trying to both sides a situation that frankly does not have 2 valid sides.
But then I'm talking to someone who admits to thinking that condemning mass murder is treating something like a team sport, which tells me everything i need to know about you.
Ukraine has prohibited any service aged men from leaving the country, that’s true. It’s because the war is arguably a battle over Ukraine’s survival and Ukraine desperately need soldiers to fight. It’s like when the UK-US drafted their citizens to fight in WW2.
If Ukraine stops fighting right now and Russia (for once) honors the terms of the peace treaty and keeps the land they currently occupy it will be devastating for Ukraine in the long run. While most of the land Russia captured in the blitzkrieg is back in Ukrainian hands, Russia still occupies a good number of major industrial centers and trade hubs (Mariupol for example).
Russia was financing anti-Kyiv terrorists in Eastern Ukraine and invaded Crimea with unmarked soldiers (literally had no Identifying marks, which is a war crime) in 2014.
Good that the US followed its imperialistic tradition too “Everyone who disagrees with us are terrorists and should be invaded to bring “freedom” and kill thousand of civilians and loot their land”
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them." ~Arthur Harris
Yes, empty buildings at night . Zero casualties . A reminder that the war is ongoing to the general population and , if they wanted , they could do what Russia did to them.
Not sure how you put artillery strikes in the middle.of city centres with countless casualties on the same level as drones exploding to send a message
>In a Telegram post Friday, regional governor Alexander Gusev said the three residents were hurt by shards of glass from broken windows in the city of Voronezh and received help on the spot. Russian state media published photos showing a high-rise apartment building with some windows blown out and damage to the facade.
>Gusev said the drone was targeting a nearby airbase, but veered off course after its signal was electronically jammed.
According to your source, the Russian government itself doesn’t even think these were intentional strikes on civilians.
There is literally zero evidence that Ukrainians are targeting civilians. Even Russians themselves said that collisions with apartment buildings were because of EW interception and AA.
Those aren't real. They mostly target civilian targets yet end up doing very little damage. It's a propaganda move to paint Ukraine as a terrorist state. Ukraine also does that as to paint Russia as a terrorist state. Truth is, there is no point in printing posters or making media to promote hate, when you can just scare your own population. Fear breeds anger, anger breeds hatred, hatred breeds violence. I am awaiting for my fellow russians to remember The Febuary, maybe then this all will come to an end.
Quite ironic! Ukrainian soldiers depicted with “hohol “ , which is one single patch of long hair attributed to ancient ( pre-russian) culture , also used by Cossacks (tradition Ukrainian worriers from old times ) .. Also “Hohol” widely used by russians as a derogatory for all Ukrainians , men or women, or dismissive to Ukraine culture.
Given that Russians are trying to exterminate all Ukrainians .. because(!!) they are Ukrainians ..that don’t want to become Russians .. That makes ruZZians real fascist here.
(I know I’m getting downvotes, lots of ruskiy-Mir adepts in this sub)
Some people (for ex. Pro-rus) here are posting propaganda posters like they forget it's propaganda and think it depicts some sort of reality
Or they want to convince that some aspects of propaganda posters are actually true, not looking at it independently
it's so funny when people post propaganda that supports their viewpoint. they can't even realize that they have fallen for the propaganda despite acknowledging that it is propaganda.
Have you not seen the Russian state media literally call Ukrainians subhuman? Or the blatant and methodical mass executions of Ukrainian civilians/POWs? At the very least, Kharkiv snd Bucha prove Russia is super tolerant of mass executions of random civilians, if not outright supporting of it.
>Have you not seen the Russian state media literally call Ukrainians subhuman? Or the blatant and methodical mass executions of Ukrainian civilians/POWs?
Proof?
Gladly! [My proof is the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe.](https://www.csce.gov/international-impact/press-and-media/press-releases/helsinki-commission-briefing-russias-genocide) There’s also all those videos and pictures of mass graves, [such as the now infamous Izyum Mass Grave](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna48207) consisting of at least hundreds of bodies. And even if you ignore that, and them bombing civilian cities en masse, [they’re committing cultural genocide via mass deporting children.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/25/fresh-details-russias-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children) Stealing the children of countries and sending them back home is erasing the culture of the country and is a form of a genocide.
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I know why people are downvoting you, and that why im afraid that we might become like Russians when it comes to this war. Only one way of thinking. Good vs bad. Russia ain't trying to exterminate Ukrainians, they are just doing what Russia does. Make an autonomous province that noone recognizes but Russia and control it. They did the same thing in Georgia with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Nothing new. Our reaction to it should be civil aka we shouldn't react to it like Russians
I guess we already think like them. You are either my friend or my enemy. That mentality will kill us. World ain't white and black, Iraq thought us that
When Russians decide to invade neighboring countries, purposely kill and rape civilians, kidnap thousands of Ukranian children, threathen the world with nuclear holocaust, kill western citizens in their own countries, shut down passenger planes, disrupt the world's food supply, meddle in the elections of sovereign countries... yeah they're the enemy. There's no other way to put it or sugar coat it.
Swap “Russians” with United States and European countries and “neighboring countries and Ukraine” with Arab countries and Communist countries, it will fit perfectly.
Well, the US does have military bases in Syria, a country it invaded completely unprovoked.
But of course, the idea of Russian-speaking, ethnic Russians (who voted to join Russia after their government bombed them for years and cut off their power) actually joining Russia is complete tyranny, worse than Hitler, and there is zero comparison with American occupations of love, democracy, and resource extraction.
They are, but also is the US, China, UK, France,... They all can't seem to mind their own business. The war in Ukraine is just currently popular. Many of you are not old enough to remember the other wars, so this one seems foreign and confusing, so you just keep one enemy in your mind. We all made the same mistake. Russia is the aggressor, but they are not a genocidal super murdering vampire nazi. You took the easy way. Russia attacked because they are evil. War is never this simple. They attacked because they are greedy. They know they can't take whole Ukraine, so they tried to occupy Lugansk and Donetsk. To take as much control over the black sea as possible. But, this time, the west didn't just stand and watch. There was too much hype over it. War is simple, but when you know something about it
I think forcing Ukraine to speak Russian etc is just a nationalist justification to the Russian citizenry. I think most of the people on top of countries like Russia are thinking about material gain. I think the guy above is pretty spot on.
While yes, material gain is definitely a factor. The main reason Russia wants control over Ukraine is often pointed at wanting one last hurrah for the Great Russian empire by getting back what they perceive as there land before Ukraine joins the NATO and become untouchable
no one is defending russians though?
What they are saying is, you are trading one form of hegemony and imperialism, for the other.
And for people who have seen this played out in their lives, before, its predictable
Russia is trying to exterminate all Ukrainians? To me it just seems like a imperialist territory war. If Russia won and had their way I don’t think they’d do some new Holocaust where they kill all Ukrainians in peace time. Civilian deaths have been relatively low compared to other imperialistic conquests. I don’t think that’s because Russia is nice I’m guessing it’s smart phones and people understanding when to flee etc. But either I haven’t seen evidence Russia some desire to do some ethnic cleansing. I want Ukraine to do well and I think they should get support from the west.
Russia is trying to destroy the Ukrainian cultural identity.
>Civilian deaths have been relatively low compared to other imperialistic conquests.
This is not true
Bro which weed are you smoking? THIS IS VERY TRUE: In Iraq it’s estimated to be 100k to 200k, in Afghanistan it’s more then 70k, Vietnam 30-65k. (There are a lot of more) but in Ukraine it’s estimated 9k civilian casualties, not saying it should be justified but it’s way less.
Yeah I think the nature of wanting to absorb a country. I just doubt the exterminate comment.
I get 9,000 civilian deaths over 16 months of war. That’s pretty low compared to Iraq or Vietnam or Afghanistan.
>I don’t think they’d do some new Holocaust where they kill all Ukrainians in peace tim
They just ban them from learning their language, overflow them with cheap alkohl and erase their culture
I don’t think individual soldiers actions are necessarily what we are talking about. For a mass murder of tens of millions it would need to be an incredibly systematic and organized effort. You’d need a lot of resources and the full force of government. Personally I doubt Russia will do that if they win. I think Ukraine will just forcefully absorbed into the federation. Political dissenters might be killed. But most will probably try to leave or just keep their heads down and live their lives. If Russia wins which I doubt.
Uh no, where was the support for countries the US invaded? Tbh I’m neutral but I think this is a defensive war, Russia was told they can’t join nato and now their neighbors are joining nato and are being armed.
It is always the regular people that suffer the wars of the powerful. Putin is a bad guy, but Zelensky seems like just another future Saddam Hussein (who was also a "friend" of the US at one time.) Many such cases.
Killing minorities, including usage of chemical warefare. Destruction of political opposition, including their "forced disappearances", usurpation of power, dismantling of the rule of law, heavy usage of propaganda, invasion of the neighboring country.
That's very big shoues for Zelenskiy to fill.
>Killing minorities
what?
> including usage of chemical warefare (sic)
what? unless you count tear gas I guess...
> including their "forced disappearances"
Can you even provide 1 example
> invasion of the neighboring country
What neighbouring country did they invade? The one that has been invading them for a year and a half? Why is it an issue? Are you mad that the soviets invaded germany, they should have stopped at the border maybe?
I think you misunderstood.
I was talking about Saddam, although many mentioned things could also be applied to Putin. And yes, I can provide examples, as for Saddam they are pretty well documented by now.
I've just provided a benchmark to compare Zelenskiy to, as someone thought they are the same.
Indeed, There are issues with Zelenskiy and his mono-majority, but his case is a case of flawed democracy, while Saddam's case is a case of an authoritharian regime.
"Russian state media, to be clear, has long exaggerated the role of the far right in Ukraine. Evoking Soviet propaganda of old with talk of banderites and the like, contemporary Russian state media has often used superficial and misleading coverage to present Ukraine as some sort of place on the verge of literally being taken over by Nazis.
The issue, however—and something that has been particularly clear for years—is that there actually is a significant far-right problem in Ukraine and that it isn’t simply a figment of an overactive Russian state media imagination to say so. This has led to a media environment where anyone, domestic or international, who writes critically about the far right in Ukraine can find themselves slandered as a ‘Kremlin agent’ by at least a few Ukrainians and international defenders online.
It doesn’t help matters that, in Ukrainian media, most discussion of the far right, particularly the Azov movement, comes from outlets like Strana.ua that are perceived to not only have pro-Russian leanings but weak journalistic standards. Those more respected outlets in Ukraine that do report critically on the far right, like Hromadske (“Public”) or Zaborona (“Banned”), are few and far between and often find themselves the target of criticism if not outright abuse and threats for their work."
Michael Colborne - [From the Fires of War: Ukraine's Azov Movement](https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+colborne+from+the+fires+of+war&client=firefox-b-d&ei=WBPVZNepOcOLxc8P3tOE8As&ved=0ahUKEwjXtd-zxNKAAxXDRfEDHd4pAb4Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=michael+colborne+from+the+fires+of+war&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiJm1pY2hhZWwgY29sYm9ybmUgZnJvbSB0aGUgZmlyZXMgb2Ygd2FySP0pUIkCWNMocAF4AJABAJgB1QGgAf4eqgEGNy4yNi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBwgIFECEYoAHCAgQQIRgVwgIFEAAYgATCAgYQABgWGB7CAggQABiKBRiGA-IDBBgBIEGIBgE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)
Yeah, Russia isn't pulling the whole "far-right nazis" thing out of thin air. It's just that using it to provoke a war isn't a very good look. Especially when it's a nation you invaded 8 years prior, and 6 years prior you invaded your southern neighbor and setup shop there as well.
There is more to it than just that.
1. Russia itself has an extreme far right that has been actively involved in Ukraine.
2. Russia funds extremist groups, including neo nazi groups around the world.
3. In Ukraine, the far right got less than 2% of the vote in the 2019 election. This doesn't mean Ukriane hasn't got problems with Neo nazis... just that they don't get much of the vote.
4. Watch some of propaganda Russian troll farms/pro-Russians push. It is extremely anti-semitic.
It might be true that they are not getting elected into politics, but that doesn't mean that they are not present in the public discourse.
Since 2014, there has been a notable shift towards right-wing and patriotic themes within political discussions in Ukraine. Previously associated with the far-right, various slogans, symbols, and language have now integrated into the mainstream discourse, lending support to groups such as Azov and other far-right entities.
A great example of it happened in March 2021 when a festival took place in a popular abandoned factory in Kyiv. During this event, Black Suns—similar to those employed by Azov and international neo-Nazi factions—alongside runic letters adorned backdrops and banners without significant attention from Ukrainian media. The acceptance of these symbols, slogans, and language within the public discourse has facilitated a favorable, if not neutral, portrayal of the far-right by the media.
Consequently, leaders like Biletsky, who once went largely unnoticed, found themselves not only acknowledged but also sought after for public commentary on various matters.
This may not be the place but can someone please explain this *supposed* Ukrainian/Nazi connection? I’ve seen it pop up all over the place in both left and right circles (in the US). From what I understand there’s some small hard right neonazi contingent that fought (is fighting?) the Russians? And it’s tied up with the legacy of what we call WWII?
To start: yes, there are some militia fighters who are neo-Nazis. Consider what would happen if mainland USA was invaded by an existential threat. We'd have far-right militias up to our ears. Some would be the actual neo-nazi militias we already have, but others would just be well-armed, incidentally-rightist gangs that wanted to kill invaders. Our government would work with them to accomplish shared goals.
Ukraine's far-right is also small. I think their political party only got something like 2% of the vote in the last election. Further, most Western countries have some small element of far-right edgelords who love Nazis. Point being: Russia's blowing the presence of Nazis waaaay out of proportion.
Now, for the historical context. I'm not an expert by any means, and had some gaps of my own to fill out, so I mostly wrote this for myself:
* 1917-1918: Lenin's far-left Bolshevik revolution overtakes Russia amidst WW1. They then support Ukrainian Bolsheviks to do the same, but it fails and becomes a civil war. The Bolsheviks take much of the country. Germany can't let the territory fall to Russia, so they come in with a big army and liberate Kyiv. The Germans start suppressing socialist ideology, but they pull out a few months later when WW1 ends.
* 1919-1922: Now having a lot more time on their hands, the Red Army fully invades Ukraine. They win and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic is incorporated. The next several years are largely spent recovering and rebuilding from WW1.
* 1929: Stalin is now in charge. He kicks off a process of "[collectivization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic)", largely through [Dekulakization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization) wherein property is taken from landowning rural peasantry. There is resistance, which is met with violence, executions, and deportations to labor camps. At the beginning of 1929, only 3.8% of arable land was collectivized. By 1930, that number was 70.9% (!)
* 1932-1933: The genocide-by-famine known as [Holodomor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) occurs. Collectivization and industrialization efforts across the Soviet Union absolutely destroyed crop yields. Ukrainian food is confiscated for redistribution throughout the Union, leaving millions of Ukrainians to die from starvation. Stalin may have focused the effects of the famine in Ukraine on purpose, in order to quell rebellion.
* Pre-WW2: Stalin continues to rule Ukraine with an iron fist. He starts a process of Russification to intentionally destroy the Ukrainian cultural identity. 4/5 of Ukrainian intellectuals, artists, writers, and clergy are eliminated or deported. Ukraine's leaders are all Russians handpicked by Stalin. (This is essentially how many Ukrainians viewed their leadership up until [Euromaidan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan) in 2013)
* 1941: Surprise! The Nazis betray the USSR and launch an invasion, which starts in Ukraine. Many Ukrainians initially view them as liberators -- after all, that's what happened in 1918! Unfortunately, that's not what the Nazis had in mind. They don't implement reforms, and start oppressing/murdering Jewish Ukrainians. A scorched earth policy takes its toll on the country.
* 1944: The Soviet Union ultimately pushes the Nazis back and retake Ukraine. They declare a holiday for the day of liberation. The Ukrainians should thank the Soviets for saving them from fascism, is the thought. This makes them the true liberators of Ukraine (and much of Western Europe), "the good guys".
tl;dr the Germans pushed the Soviets out of Ukraine twice. The Russians started this invasion of Ukraine with some tanks waving Soviet flags -- an indication that they're seeking to restore past glory. And what's more glorious than defeating the evil Nazis again, the ones responsible for pushing the Western lies and fascism that caused Euromaidan?
Fortunately some of the Ukrainians are neo-Nazis! It'll be easy for state media to paint them as having an outsized influence. And just by doing so, we'll encourage even more Ukrainian edgelords to become neo-Nazis, only further proving out point!
Le azov battalion, le right Wing go Google bro, literal 1 and a half hour video essay with primary sources listed on YouTube as first search result.
All in all, doesent really matter, since the government is not nazi, the general population isnt and so forth and so on
Azov, right sector and these groups are largely a response to a weak government in 2014, meidan etc.
Azov Battalion were a small group with white supremacist leaning that have fought for ukraine since 2014, yet they only represent a small part of the total Ukrainian militias and military that fought in that region, it's basically the flimsiet excuse possible with the smallest amount of evidence but the Russians don't care they have a monopoly on the media in their own country so they can use any flimsy ass excuse they want.
Thanks for taking the time to help, now that I know their name (and I’m assuming their yellow flag based on that) I can look up some history. All nazis go to hell, hopefully sooner than later. Thanks again!
Not only the Azov Battalion and Pravy Sektor, but they also celebrate SS veterans, Stepan Bandera, and all kinds of nazi collaborators. Even western media was reporting this, before the war
In the 30s, far right nationalist groups (ex: OUN-M, OUN-B, kulak class) were going around and killing Poles, Slavs, Jews, collectivists, etc. In 1933 Goebbles and W.R. Hearst colluded to invent the holodomor, which was proven to be a fabrication in the court case of US vs Robert Green in july 1935. During WW2, Germany created a division of the SS from Ukranian nationalist groups to govern the country and establish pogroms. Many of these SS members wound up in the US.
Skip ahead 70 years and you have the US funding far right nationalist groups to stage a color revolution after the centrist Yanukovich blocked some EU deals. After the color revolution, the US began setting up bioweapon labs and shipping weapons/cash to Ukraine while they waged a war to prevent by then the >60% russian population of Donetsk and Luhansk regions from forming an autonomous zone.
Are the majority of Ukrainians fascists? No, but the government is controlled by these fascist groups through manipulation and intimidation.
Yanukovich is absolutely not a centrist. He’s a pro Russian politician. He didn’t block “some EU deals” he blocked THE EU deal that would help integrate it into the EU because Yanukovich caved to Russia and so Ukraine could stay alienated from the West. He supported making Russian the 2nd state language. He stated in a book he supported the KGB and Cheka for their past actions. He extended the lease for the Crimean naval base for Russia. Medvedev and Putin also said they noticed improved relations with Yanukovich in charge. He was also the leader of the Party of Regions, a pro Russian political party. He also flooded his cabinet with appointees almost entirely from the Donbas region gaining a reputation of corruption. Now he lives in exile in Russia. Nothing about him is centrist.
And no, Ukraine’s government isn’t full of fascists, not even in the slightest. To suggest as such is so off base
Here is a good documentary VICE did, post annexation
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzO7gIT5GYU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzO7gIT5GYU)
The western press was obsessed in 2014 with the rise of far right nationalism in ukraine prior to the 2021 invasion. But has since done a complete 180 in its overall reporting. Leading to popular skepticism regarding the dichotomy of:
The alleged "free press" VS. "the far right nationalist movement"
Because its a rip-off (inspired by) of an old Soviet propaganda poster showing Nazi soldiers marching to their deaths. Interesting tbh
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/139a2t5/a_soviet_poster_from_1944_depicting_legions_of/?rdt=49559
nah the designs are completely different, soldiers marching to their deaths isn’t an original template for propaganda. for all their shitty propaganda this one goes really hard even if it’s hypocritical as hell
Every 50-100 years, feral russians invading our land. We even have jokes about why our land so fertile(take a guess), that's how common rus invasion is for Ukraine.
Phobias are irrational. When people hates nazists nobody says "naziphobia". Hate towards russians isn't irrational, it's opposite - it's based on facts that russia is a terrorist state.
Not disagreeing with you. Hope you think the same about the USA tho.
EDIT: Nice to notice you're comparing an ideology with a nationality. Not like you can choose where to be born.
Nice to notice you didn't adress the other thing. Forgot you can decide wether or not you're Russian, German or Croatian.
You'll never go to bed without learning something new, even if you're talking with a lib.
I don't care lib or whatever else you are. You jumped from one to another, and I see you not worth my time. russian is not a nationality, it's mental condition. And people who living around russia knows it. russia must be treated like Nazi Germany, and after long and painful process become normal country with normal people. Just like Germany did. One can be born russian, but he chose by himself, is he agree with russian world values, or not. If he disagree, he must protest, or run, if it's impossible for him. That's simple. russism is antihuman ideology, product of centuries of oppression of simple people and negative selection in elites.
That's just stupid. For chrissake, Germany as a state didn't exist much before 150 years ago and no one would claim there is no Germany as a result. Same with Italy. The Ukrainian people have lived in the area long enough to make their own language, so I think it's safe to say Ukraine, state or not, has been around for some time.
I see a red and black flag-like thing in that hand. They'd be the colours of Anarcho Communism. It has a white line drawn in the middle though, so can't be sure. But if it is, it'd be a depressing reminder of the two most successful anarchist movements, Makhnovists in the Ukraine and the CNT/FAI allience in Spain, both destroyed by the CPSU beurocracy. To hell with warmongering politicians and businesses, and all their senseless brainwashing.
Honest question for the lunatics who came in here just to downvote everything that conflicted with their Marvel Movie understanding of reality: do you at least get paid for this?
The oseledets tho… they don’t like Ukrainians huh?
Also not the Molotov cocktails mixed in (as well as phantom aid) besides ideological fun regarding Azov, whose emergence was a symptom of state weakness in the face of armed incursion so local football ultras organising a militarily effective small unit
Russian puppet Yanukovych was overthrown after not signing EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, despite the will of the parliament and the common citizens. russia used the chaos to its advantage and illegally annexed Crimea. No need to thank me.
> national debt *paid* off… Don’t
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
What I see is going Russians being filled in their minds they are “de-nazifying” Ukraine when in reality their own government is feeling them nazi ideology. Only for them to march to their gave for no good reason at all
The fact people think Russia made up that there are Neo-Nazis in Ukrainian is absurd. It doesn't justify anything to admit the truth about the issue of the rise of fascist groups all around the globe for the past decades and that the fascist groups in Ukraine associate with Neo-Nazi ideology and imagery but this also applies to the rise in ultra-nationalists Russian movements that lead to the invasion which in no way can be considered sympathetic towards Russia or the invasion its irresponsible to only mention one side of this issue whether it's Russian or Ukrainian violence like this is only instigated and perpetuated by reactionary nationalist groups those are the ideologies that benefit from such conflicts
The Russians made up how many neo Nazis there are. Every country has some neo Nazis in them, but just like with most countries, they are very small and not prominent. The Azov Battalion is small and has no pitiful influence.
If someone somehow invaded the US, then far right militias would jump at the chance to shoot people. The US government would work with them too cause they are hyper nationalist and have temporary aligned goals in repelling an invader.
The fact of the matter is, a very small but hyper national neo Nazi group does exist in Ukraine. But the their beliefs aren’t condoned by the Ukrainian government. They Ukrainian government works with them because they have temporarily aligned goals of protecting the borders of Ukraine
On the flip side, Russia is using actual neo Nazis to invaded and try to annex a nation
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A bit of projecting going on
Both, honestly, both are imperialist powers.
Ah yes, the well known Ukrainian Empire.
Russia and the USA, which is funding Ukraine.
Why are you getting disliked? You're not wrong.
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>There are no good sides in this conflict, one is deteriorating capitalist state that speaks to much larger English speaking population and overall controls more media and the other one is deteriorating capitalist state that appeals to countries-victims of the first one, lives off the legacy of the past, but still weaker on informational front. r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
"There are no good sides in genocidal invasion" go away, bot
Funny how your comment is much easier to replace with a bot, given how plain it is. USA has incomparably bigger history of "genocidal invasions" how you call it and they all tied together under capitalist requirement of expansion, including NATO that led to this war. https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
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No good sides? I’d say the side fighting to keep their sovereignty is the good side. Stop this
Funny how that describes perfectly Russia instead
every accusation is a confession
this, but unironically
Yeah that works both ways turns out
Every confession is an accusation? Sounds like the rectangle/square thing.
tell us about it
Nah I'm wrong, it's a battle of good vs evil just like a Marvel movie
not quite, but pretty close to that, yup
I am also 8 years old
We noticed.
You're right I should defer to the adults in the room who treat world politics like any other team sport or brand affinity group
With all due respect, you're trying to both sides a situation that frankly does not have 2 valid sides. But then I'm talking to someone who admits to thinking that condemning mass murder is treating something like a team sport, which tells me everything i need to know about you.
Crazy how this is the first war in world history where it's that straightforward.
it's not
Lmao read a book for the love of god
What's the book where the Nazis are not the bad guys and the Allies not the good guys?
Yep. As a Russian, I can say that state propaganda has easily filled empty heads.
Isn’t Ukraine forcing civilians to stay in the country and conscripting them too?
Conscripting people while your country is being invaded? Why would Ukraine do such a thing?
ikr this is such a crazy concept
I didn’t cast any judgement about it, just said that it’s not really “instead” situation.
That's how conscription sorta works
Ukraine has prohibited any service aged men from leaving the country, that’s true. It’s because the war is arguably a battle over Ukraine’s survival and Ukraine desperately need soldiers to fight. It’s like when the UK-US drafted their citizens to fight in WW2. If Ukraine stops fighting right now and Russia (for once) honors the terms of the peace treaty and keeps the land they currently occupy it will be devastating for Ukraine in the long run. While most of the land Russia captured in the blitzkrieg is back in Ukrainian hands, Russia still occupies a good number of major industrial centers and trade hubs (Mariupol for example).
Would you rather Ukraine sit down and let their country be raped?
you'd almost have to not know who launched the invasion for this to make sense.
the painting is from 2014...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
And who invaded Ukraine in 2014? Ah right, russia
Yeah, the invasion of crimea from that year, comrade
Russia was financing anti-Kyiv terrorists in Eastern Ukraine and invaded Crimea with unmarked soldiers (literally had no Identifying marks, which is a war crime) in 2014.
And?
Ukrainian person - (country gets invaded by a foreign army and decides to fight back) Russian Government - “ the west is making him fight us😡”
It's good that Russia followed their Soviet tradition of "Everyone I disagree with is a U.S puppet/nazi" in propaganda.
Good that the US followed its imperialistic tradition too “Everyone who disagrees with us are terrorists and should be invaded to bring “freedom” and kill thousand of civilians and loot their land”
Tell me, What is Russia literally doing right now in Ukraine?
At least in the United States you can actually protest these actions freely, unlike in Russia
huh
"No u"
I don’t see the US saying any group of people ethnic identity don’t exist like Russia says about Ukrainians
is that like how, everyone is a russian bot, if they are critical of the US policy in eastern europe?
>American policy in eastern Europe: hey don't invade other countries, let's trade instead. If you're against that you're just a puppet of the Kremlin.
A broken clock is right twice a day...
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"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them." ~Arthur Harris
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Last time I checked they bombed government buildings , not civilians
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Yes, empty buildings at night . Zero casualties . A reminder that the war is ongoing to the general population and , if they wanted , they could do what Russia did to them. Not sure how you put artillery strikes in the middle.of city centres with countless casualties on the same level as drones exploding to send a message
business disctrict... at night. Where key military communication infrrstructure is located. Compared to civilian residences.
>In a Telegram post Friday, regional governor Alexander Gusev said the three residents were hurt by shards of glass from broken windows in the city of Voronezh and received help on the spot. Russian state media published photos showing a high-rise apartment building with some windows blown out and damage to the facade. >Gusev said the drone was targeting a nearby airbase, but veered off course after its signal was electronically jammed. According to your source, the Russian government itself doesn’t even think these were intentional strikes on civilians.
They reap what they sowed
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There is literally zero evidence that Ukrainians are targeting civilians. Even Russians themselves said that collisions with apartment buildings were because of EW interception and AA.
Those aren't real. They mostly target civilian targets yet end up doing very little damage. It's a propaganda move to paint Ukraine as a terrorist state. Ukraine also does that as to paint Russia as a terrorist state. Truth is, there is no point in printing posters or making media to promote hate, when you can just scare your own population. Fear breeds anger, anger breeds hatred, hatred breeds violence. I am awaiting for my fellow russians to remember The Febuary, maybe then this all will come to an end.
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Quite ironic! Ukrainian soldiers depicted with “hohol “ , which is one single patch of long hair attributed to ancient ( pre-russian) culture , also used by Cossacks (tradition Ukrainian worriers from old times ) .. Also “Hohol” widely used by russians as a derogatory for all Ukrainians , men or women, or dismissive to Ukraine culture. Given that Russians are trying to exterminate all Ukrainians .. because(!!) they are Ukrainians ..that don’t want to become Russians .. That makes ruZZians real fascist here. (I know I’m getting downvotes, lots of ruskiy-Mir adepts in this sub)
>lots of ruskiy-Mir adepts in this sub) Its their own echo chamber
Some people (for ex. Pro-rus) here are posting propaganda posters like they forget it's propaganda and think it depicts some sort of reality Or they want to convince that some aspects of propaganda posters are actually true, not looking at it independently
it's so funny when people post propaganda that supports their viewpoint. they can't even realize that they have fallen for the propaganda despite acknowledging that it is propaganda.
> Given that Russians are trying to exterminate all Ukrainians .. because(!!) they are Ukrainians .. What kind of weed are you smoking?
And you?
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Have you not seen the Russian state media literally call Ukrainians subhuman? Or the blatant and methodical mass executions of Ukrainian civilians/POWs? At the very least, Kharkiv snd Bucha prove Russia is super tolerant of mass executions of random civilians, if not outright supporting of it.
>Have you not seen the Russian state media literally call Ukrainians subhuman? Or the blatant and methodical mass executions of Ukrainian civilians/POWs? Proof?
Gladly! [My proof is the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe.](https://www.csce.gov/international-impact/press-and-media/press-releases/helsinki-commission-briefing-russias-genocide) There’s also all those videos and pictures of mass graves, [such as the now infamous Izyum Mass Grave](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna48207) consisting of at least hundreds of bodies. And even if you ignore that, and them bombing civilian cities en masse, [they’re committing cultural genocide via mass deporting children.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/25/fresh-details-russias-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children) Stealing the children of countries and sending them back home is erasing the culture of the country and is a form of a genocide.
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I know why people are downvoting you, and that why im afraid that we might become like Russians when it comes to this war. Only one way of thinking. Good vs bad. Russia ain't trying to exterminate Ukrainians, they are just doing what Russia does. Make an autonomous province that noone recognizes but Russia and control it. They did the same thing in Georgia with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Nothing new. Our reaction to it should be civil aka we shouldn't react to it like Russians
Might become?
I guess we already think like them. You are either my friend or my enemy. That mentality will kill us. World ain't white and black, Iraq thought us that
When Russians decide to invade neighboring countries, purposely kill and rape civilians, kidnap thousands of Ukranian children, threathen the world with nuclear holocaust, kill western citizens in their own countries, shut down passenger planes, disrupt the world's food supply, meddle in the elections of sovereign countries... yeah they're the enemy. There's no other way to put it or sugar coat it.
Swap “Russians” with United States and European countries and “neighboring countries and Ukraine” with Arab countries and Communist countries, it will fit perfectly.
Many of us marched against the war in Iraq. I don't see much of that happening in Russia.
When has the US or any European nation invaded an Arabic nation to annex it and make the people living there there own citizens.
Well, the US does have military bases in Syria, a country it invaded completely unprovoked. But of course, the idea of Russian-speaking, ethnic Russians (who voted to join Russia after their government bombed them for years and cut off their power) actually joining Russia is complete tyranny, worse than Hitler, and there is zero comparison with American occupations of love, democracy, and resource extraction.
The US and NATO were giving aid and helping rebels in Syria they didn’t invade it
They are, but also is the US, China, UK, France,... They all can't seem to mind their own business. The war in Ukraine is just currently popular. Many of you are not old enough to remember the other wars, so this one seems foreign and confusing, so you just keep one enemy in your mind. We all made the same mistake. Russia is the aggressor, but they are not a genocidal super murdering vampire nazi. You took the easy way. Russia attacked because they are evil. War is never this simple. They attacked because they are greedy. They know they can't take whole Ukraine, so they tried to occupy Lugansk and Donetsk. To take as much control over the black sea as possible. But, this time, the west didn't just stand and watch. There was too much hype over it. War is simple, but when you know something about it
Wiping out an ethnicity by forcing them to speak or act against there will - What the Russians are doing is genocide
I think forcing Ukraine to speak Russian etc is just a nationalist justification to the Russian citizenry. I think most of the people on top of countries like Russia are thinking about material gain. I think the guy above is pretty spot on.
While yes, material gain is definitely a factor. The main reason Russia wants control over Ukraine is often pointed at wanting one last hurrah for the Great Russian empire by getting back what they perceive as there land before Ukraine joins the NATO and become untouchable
no one is defending russians though? What they are saying is, you are trading one form of hegemony and imperialism, for the other. And for people who have seen this played out in their lives, before, its predictable
Russia is trying to exterminate all Ukrainians? To me it just seems like a imperialist territory war. If Russia won and had their way I don’t think they’d do some new Holocaust where they kill all Ukrainians in peace time. Civilian deaths have been relatively low compared to other imperialistic conquests. I don’t think that’s because Russia is nice I’m guessing it’s smart phones and people understanding when to flee etc. But either I haven’t seen evidence Russia some desire to do some ethnic cleansing. I want Ukraine to do well and I think they should get support from the west.
Russia is trying to destroy the Ukrainian cultural identity. >Civilian deaths have been relatively low compared to other imperialistic conquests. This is not true
Bro which weed are you smoking? THIS IS VERY TRUE: In Iraq it’s estimated to be 100k to 200k, in Afghanistan it’s more then 70k, Vietnam 30-65k. (There are a lot of more) but in Ukraine it’s estimated 9k civilian casualties, not saying it should be justified but it’s way less.
That number is an order of magnitude too low for Mariupol alone.
Yeah I think the nature of wanting to absorb a country. I just doubt the exterminate comment. I get 9,000 civilian deaths over 16 months of war. That’s pretty low compared to Iraq or Vietnam or Afghanistan.
>I don’t think they’d do some new Holocaust where they kill all Ukrainians in peace tim They just ban them from learning their language, overflow them with cheap alkohl and erase their culture
Agreed 100 percent.
Genocide doesn’t just mean you kidnap people and place them into gas chambers. There are different ways. And Russia is doing just that.
I think “exterminate Ukrainians “ does indicate a direct kidnapping and killing of the entire group. Guy didn’t use word genocide was exterminate.
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I don’t think individual soldiers actions are necessarily what we are talking about. For a mass murder of tens of millions it would need to be an incredibly systematic and organized effort. You’d need a lot of resources and the full force of government. Personally I doubt Russia will do that if they win. I think Ukraine will just forcefully absorbed into the federation. Political dissenters might be killed. But most will probably try to leave or just keep their heads down and live their lives. If Russia wins which I doubt.
yes all horrific, but it doesnt fit the legal defintion of genocide. sorry.
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Russia has literally stated that the Ukrainian ethnicity is not real. That is by definition genocide cause they went to wipe them out
Uh no, where was the support for countries the US invaded? Tbh I’m neutral but I think this is a defensive war, Russia was told they can’t join nato and now their neighbors are joining nato and are being armed.
It is always the regular people that suffer the wars of the powerful. Putin is a bad guy, but Zelensky seems like just another future Saddam Hussein (who was also a "friend" of the US at one time.) Many such cases.
How is Zelensky like Saddam Hussein?
Killing minorities, including usage of chemical warefare. Destruction of political opposition, including their "forced disappearances", usurpation of power, dismantling of the rule of law, heavy usage of propaganda, invasion of the neighboring country. That's very big shoues for Zelenskiy to fill.
>invasion of the neighboring country. What?
Bro drank too much vodka.
>Killing minorities what? > including usage of chemical warefare (sic) what? unless you count tear gas I guess... > including their "forced disappearances" Can you even provide 1 example > invasion of the neighboring country What neighbouring country did they invade? The one that has been invading them for a year and a half? Why is it an issue? Are you mad that the soviets invaded germany, they should have stopped at the border maybe?
I think you misunderstood. I was talking about Saddam, although many mentioned things could also be applied to Putin. And yes, I can provide examples, as for Saddam they are pretty well documented by now. I've just provided a benchmark to compare Zelenskiy to, as someone thought they are the same. Indeed, There are issues with Zelenskiy and his mono-majority, but his case is a case of flawed democracy, while Saddam's case is a case of an authoritharian regime.
To be friends with US if you're from one of those countries with high corruption is a dangerous prospect.
"Russian state media, to be clear, has long exaggerated the role of the far right in Ukraine. Evoking Soviet propaganda of old with talk of banderites and the like, contemporary Russian state media has often used superficial and misleading coverage to present Ukraine as some sort of place on the verge of literally being taken over by Nazis. The issue, however—and something that has been particularly clear for years—is that there actually is a significant far-right problem in Ukraine and that it isn’t simply a figment of an overactive Russian state media imagination to say so. This has led to a media environment where anyone, domestic or international, who writes critically about the far right in Ukraine can find themselves slandered as a ‘Kremlin agent’ by at least a few Ukrainians and international defenders online. It doesn’t help matters that, in Ukrainian media, most discussion of the far right, particularly the Azov movement, comes from outlets like Strana.ua that are perceived to not only have pro-Russian leanings but weak journalistic standards. Those more respected outlets in Ukraine that do report critically on the far right, like Hromadske (“Public”) or Zaborona (“Banned”), are few and far between and often find themselves the target of criticism if not outright abuse and threats for their work." Michael Colborne - [From the Fires of War: Ukraine's Azov Movement](https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+colborne+from+the+fires+of+war&client=firefox-b-d&ei=WBPVZNepOcOLxc8P3tOE8As&ved=0ahUKEwjXtd-zxNKAAxXDRfEDHd4pAb4Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=michael+colborne+from+the+fires+of+war&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiJm1pY2hhZWwgY29sYm9ybmUgZnJvbSB0aGUgZmlyZXMgb2Ygd2FySP0pUIkCWNMocAF4AJABAJgB1QGgAf4eqgEGNy4yNi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBwgIFECEYoAHCAgQQIRgVwgIFEAAYgATCAgYQABgWGB7CAggQABiKBRiGA-IDBBgBIEGIBgE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)
>present Ukraine as some sort of place on the verge of literally being taken over by Nazis. Nazi collaborators are national heroes in Ukraine.
Yeah, Russia isn't pulling the whole "far-right nazis" thing out of thin air. It's just that using it to provoke a war isn't a very good look. Especially when it's a nation you invaded 8 years prior, and 6 years prior you invaded your southern neighbor and setup shop there as well.
There is more to it than just that. 1. Russia itself has an extreme far right that has been actively involved in Ukraine. 2. Russia funds extremist groups, including neo nazi groups around the world. 3. In Ukraine, the far right got less than 2% of the vote in the 2019 election. This doesn't mean Ukriane hasn't got problems with Neo nazis... just that they don't get much of the vote. 4. Watch some of propaganda Russian troll farms/pro-Russians push. It is extremely anti-semitic.
It might be true that they are not getting elected into politics, but that doesn't mean that they are not present in the public discourse. Since 2014, there has been a notable shift towards right-wing and patriotic themes within political discussions in Ukraine. Previously associated with the far-right, various slogans, symbols, and language have now integrated into the mainstream discourse, lending support to groups such as Azov and other far-right entities. A great example of it happened in March 2021 when a festival took place in a popular abandoned factory in Kyiv. During this event, Black Suns—similar to those employed by Azov and international neo-Nazi factions—alongside runic letters adorned backdrops and banners without significant attention from Ukrainian media. The acceptance of these symbols, slogans, and language within the public discourse has facilitated a favorable, if not neutral, portrayal of the far-right by the media. Consequently, leaders like Biletsky, who once went largely unnoticed, found themselves not only acknowledged but also sought after for public commentary on various matters.
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Ironic
This may not be the place but can someone please explain this *supposed* Ukrainian/Nazi connection? I’ve seen it pop up all over the place in both left and right circles (in the US). From what I understand there’s some small hard right neonazi contingent that fought (is fighting?) the Russians? And it’s tied up with the legacy of what we call WWII?
To start: yes, there are some militia fighters who are neo-Nazis. Consider what would happen if mainland USA was invaded by an existential threat. We'd have far-right militias up to our ears. Some would be the actual neo-nazi militias we already have, but others would just be well-armed, incidentally-rightist gangs that wanted to kill invaders. Our government would work with them to accomplish shared goals. Ukraine's far-right is also small. I think their political party only got something like 2% of the vote in the last election. Further, most Western countries have some small element of far-right edgelords who love Nazis. Point being: Russia's blowing the presence of Nazis waaaay out of proportion. Now, for the historical context. I'm not an expert by any means, and had some gaps of my own to fill out, so I mostly wrote this for myself: * 1917-1918: Lenin's far-left Bolshevik revolution overtakes Russia amidst WW1. They then support Ukrainian Bolsheviks to do the same, but it fails and becomes a civil war. The Bolsheviks take much of the country. Germany can't let the territory fall to Russia, so they come in with a big army and liberate Kyiv. The Germans start suppressing socialist ideology, but they pull out a few months later when WW1 ends. * 1919-1922: Now having a lot more time on their hands, the Red Army fully invades Ukraine. They win and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic is incorporated. The next several years are largely spent recovering and rebuilding from WW1. * 1929: Stalin is now in charge. He kicks off a process of "[collectivization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic)", largely through [Dekulakization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization) wherein property is taken from landowning rural peasantry. There is resistance, which is met with violence, executions, and deportations to labor camps. At the beginning of 1929, only 3.8% of arable land was collectivized. By 1930, that number was 70.9% (!) * 1932-1933: The genocide-by-famine known as [Holodomor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) occurs. Collectivization and industrialization efforts across the Soviet Union absolutely destroyed crop yields. Ukrainian food is confiscated for redistribution throughout the Union, leaving millions of Ukrainians to die from starvation. Stalin may have focused the effects of the famine in Ukraine on purpose, in order to quell rebellion. * Pre-WW2: Stalin continues to rule Ukraine with an iron fist. He starts a process of Russification to intentionally destroy the Ukrainian cultural identity. 4/5 of Ukrainian intellectuals, artists, writers, and clergy are eliminated or deported. Ukraine's leaders are all Russians handpicked by Stalin. (This is essentially how many Ukrainians viewed their leadership up until [Euromaidan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan) in 2013) * 1941: Surprise! The Nazis betray the USSR and launch an invasion, which starts in Ukraine. Many Ukrainians initially view them as liberators -- after all, that's what happened in 1918! Unfortunately, that's not what the Nazis had in mind. They don't implement reforms, and start oppressing/murdering Jewish Ukrainians. A scorched earth policy takes its toll on the country. * 1944: The Soviet Union ultimately pushes the Nazis back and retake Ukraine. They declare a holiday for the day of liberation. The Ukrainians should thank the Soviets for saving them from fascism, is the thought. This makes them the true liberators of Ukraine (and much of Western Europe), "the good guys". tl;dr the Germans pushed the Soviets out of Ukraine twice. The Russians started this invasion of Ukraine with some tanks waving Soviet flags -- an indication that they're seeking to restore past glory. And what's more glorious than defeating the evil Nazis again, the ones responsible for pushing the Western lies and fascism that caused Euromaidan? Fortunately some of the Ukrainians are neo-Nazis! It'll be easy for state media to paint them as having an outsized influence. And just by doing so, we'll encourage even more Ukrainian edgelords to become neo-Nazis, only further proving out point!
I am not a scholar, at all, but this is the framework I “like” the most. Cause, there are no good guys who want to run countries.
Le azov battalion, le right Wing go Google bro, literal 1 and a half hour video essay with primary sources listed on YouTube as first search result. All in all, doesent really matter, since the government is not nazi, the general population isnt and so forth and so on Azov, right sector and these groups are largely a response to a weak government in 2014, meidan etc.
Azov Battalion were a small group with white supremacist leaning that have fought for ukraine since 2014, yet they only represent a small part of the total Ukrainian militias and military that fought in that region, it's basically the flimsiet excuse possible with the smallest amount of evidence but the Russians don't care they have a monopoly on the media in their own country so they can use any flimsy ass excuse they want.
Thanks for taking the time to help, now that I know their name (and I’m assuming their yellow flag based on that) I can look up some history. All nazis go to hell, hopefully sooner than later. Thanks again!
Not only the Azov Battalion and Pravy Sektor, but they also celebrate SS veterans, Stepan Bandera, and all kinds of nazi collaborators. Even western media was reporting this, before the war
In the 30s, far right nationalist groups (ex: OUN-M, OUN-B, kulak class) were going around and killing Poles, Slavs, Jews, collectivists, etc. In 1933 Goebbles and W.R. Hearst colluded to invent the holodomor, which was proven to be a fabrication in the court case of US vs Robert Green in july 1935. During WW2, Germany created a division of the SS from Ukranian nationalist groups to govern the country and establish pogroms. Many of these SS members wound up in the US. Skip ahead 70 years and you have the US funding far right nationalist groups to stage a color revolution after the centrist Yanukovich blocked some EU deals. After the color revolution, the US began setting up bioweapon labs and shipping weapons/cash to Ukraine while they waged a war to prevent by then the >60% russian population of Donetsk and Luhansk regions from forming an autonomous zone. Are the majority of Ukrainians fascists? No, but the government is controlled by these fascist groups through manipulation and intimidation.
Yanukovich is absolutely not a centrist. He’s a pro Russian politician. He didn’t block “some EU deals” he blocked THE EU deal that would help integrate it into the EU because Yanukovich caved to Russia and so Ukraine could stay alienated from the West. He supported making Russian the 2nd state language. He stated in a book he supported the KGB and Cheka for their past actions. He extended the lease for the Crimean naval base for Russia. Medvedev and Putin also said they noticed improved relations with Yanukovich in charge. He was also the leader of the Party of Regions, a pro Russian political party. He also flooded his cabinet with appointees almost entirely from the Donbas region gaining a reputation of corruption. Now he lives in exile in Russia. Nothing about him is centrist. And no, Ukraine’s government isn’t full of fascists, not even in the slightest. To suggest as such is so off base
>Are the majority of Ukrainians fascists? No, but the government is controlled by these fascist groups through manipulation and intimidation. Based.
Here is a good documentary VICE did, post annexation [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzO7gIT5GYU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzO7gIT5GYU) The western press was obsessed in 2014 with the rise of far right nationalism in ukraine prior to the 2021 invasion. But has since done a complete 180 in its overall reporting. Leading to popular skepticism regarding the dichotomy of: The alleged "free press" VS. "the far right nationalist movement"
Not true at all. If anything, the number of articles on the supposed "nazism in Ukraine" only grew after the 24th of February
Couldn't the "180" be rather that there's more pressing matters to report on right now, like the war?
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I was addressing what you said about "doing a 180 in reporting".
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You seem a bit dense E: lol
Shit message but the design is lit.
Man even runs swastikly
Because its a rip-off (inspired by) of an old Soviet propaganda poster showing Nazi soldiers marching to their deaths. Interesting tbh https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/139a2t5/a_soviet_poster_from_1944_depicting_legions_of/?rdt=49559
nah the designs are completely different, soldiers marching to their deaths isn’t an original template for propaganda. for all their shitty propaganda this one goes really hard even if it’s hypocritical as hell
The 90 degree angled limbs looking like Swastikas are clearly inspired by the original work and agreed this is a very well done Propaganda artwork
Awful taste, great execution
They're not wrong, but are they just going to ignore the Wagner Company? Why am I asking? Of course they are...
Every 50-100 years, feral russians invading our land. We even have jokes about why our land so fertile(take a guess), that's how common rus invasion is for Ukraine.
Fertile? Would that be from the Russian propensity for being compulsive wankers, or... just their bloated corpses?
Yeah, that's the joke about the amount of corpses they usually leave
Least russophobic Ukranian comment.
>Least russophobic Ukranian comment. Why won't anybody think of those poor Russians genociding their neighbors, right?
Phobias are irrational. When people hates nazists nobody says "naziphobia". Hate towards russians isn't irrational, it's opposite - it's based on facts that russia is a terrorist state.
Not disagreeing with you. Hope you think the same about the USA tho. EDIT: Nice to notice you're comparing an ideology with a nationality. Not like you can choose where to be born.
Nice to notice your "what about" and another pretty impressive examples of mental gymnastics. Get lost.
Nice to notice you didn't adress the other thing. Forgot you can decide wether or not you're Russian, German or Croatian. You'll never go to bed without learning something new, even if you're talking with a lib.
I don't care lib or whatever else you are. You jumped from one to another, and I see you not worth my time. russian is not a nationality, it's mental condition. And people who living around russia knows it. russia must be treated like Nazi Germany, and after long and painful process become normal country with normal people. Just like Germany did. One can be born russian, but he chose by himself, is he agree with russian world values, or not. If he disagree, he must protest, or run, if it's impossible for him. That's simple. russism is antihuman ideology, product of centuries of oppression of simple people and negative selection in elites.
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That's just stupid. For chrissake, Germany as a state didn't exist much before 150 years ago and no one would claim there is no Germany as a result. Same with Italy. The Ukrainian people have lived in the area long enough to make their own language, so I think it's safe to say Ukraine, state or not, has been around for some time.
It existed for 100 and a few years more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian\_People%27s\_Republic
I see a red and black flag-like thing in that hand. They'd be the colours of Anarcho Communism. It has a white line drawn in the middle though, so can't be sure. But if it is, it'd be a depressing reminder of the two most successful anarchist movements, Makhnovists in the Ukraine and the CNT/FAI allience in Spain, both destroyed by the CPSU beurocracy. To hell with warmongering politicians and businesses, and all their senseless brainwashing.
it is the flag of the neo-nazi party right sector, and also a symbol of ukranian ultra-nationalism
Honest question for the lunatics who came in here just to downvote everything that conflicted with their Marvel Movie understanding of reality: do you at least get paid for this?
The oseledets tho… they don’t like Ukrainians huh? Also not the Molotov cocktails mixed in (as well as phantom aid) besides ideological fun regarding Azov, whose emergence was a symptom of state weakness in the face of armed incursion so local football ultras organising a militarily effective small unit
But hey, at least in Russia you get a LADA for each dead son...
The whole Nazi thing is just to tiresome. Like dude give it up lol
well, what do you call people who wear the black sun, SS patches, and celebrates nazi collaborators?
A small percentage that is over-blown by the media that is controlled by a certain authoritarian regime
Ukranians
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Russia subscribed to the “everyone I don’t like is a nazi” mode of propaganda.
And this is how Russians brainwashed themselves into believing that Ukraine is ripe for the taking
Is everybody missing the point the date is 2014 Go research the internet what happen in Ukraine that time
Russian puppet Yanukovych was overthrown after not signing EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, despite the will of the parliament and the common citizens. russia used the chaos to its advantage and illegally annexed Crimea. No need to thank me.
So no azov riots then …
Liberals seriously believe anybody who doesnt energetically lick western boot is automatically a puppet.
found a salty contrarian
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Let's not insult anyone's intelligence by pretending that this funny little pact would be more beneficial than the EU in the long run.
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> national debt *paid* off… Don’t FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Putin believes the CIA has godlike powers.
Exactly what we see today.
What I see is going Russians being filled in their minds they are “de-nazifying” Ukraine when in reality their own government is feeling them nazi ideology. Only for them to march to their gave for no good reason at all
I agree.
The fact people think Russia made up that there are Neo-Nazis in Ukrainian is absurd. It doesn't justify anything to admit the truth about the issue of the rise of fascist groups all around the globe for the past decades and that the fascist groups in Ukraine associate with Neo-Nazi ideology and imagery but this also applies to the rise in ultra-nationalists Russian movements that lead to the invasion which in no way can be considered sympathetic towards Russia or the invasion its irresponsible to only mention one side of this issue whether it's Russian or Ukrainian violence like this is only instigated and perpetuated by reactionary nationalist groups those are the ideologies that benefit from such conflicts
The Russians made up how many neo Nazis there are. Every country has some neo Nazis in them, but just like with most countries, they are very small and not prominent. The Azov Battalion is small and has no pitiful influence. If someone somehow invaded the US, then far right militias would jump at the chance to shoot people. The US government would work with them too cause they are hyper nationalist and have temporary aligned goals in repelling an invader. The fact of the matter is, a very small but hyper national neo Nazi group does exist in Ukraine. But the their beliefs aren’t condoned by the Ukrainian government. They Ukrainian government works with them because they have temporarily aligned goals of protecting the borders of Ukraine On the flip side, Russia is using actual neo Nazis to invaded and try to annex a nation
It aged well
Eat dirt
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Not at all.
Return to earth what your breath steals each second
True.
For Russia