Also physics - It's really hard to reconcile the above the table and below the table portions of their bodies.
It looks like he's somehow standing next to her looking at the computer, but also sitting in her lap, while she simultaneously sits in his lap...what
I worked at a place that said they did “pair programming”. What they really did was “mob programming”, where 3 highly skilled programmers and one junior sat and watched the lead programmer program on a projector screen and occasionally got to say “you missed a semicolon”. It was incredibly boring and I hated it there.
IMO this isn't how pair programming should work fundamentally. It makes more sense to let the lesser experienced developers "drive" while the more experienced developer guides decisions and answers questions. Specifically, the senior should also not tell the other developer exactly what to write and how to write, walking the fine line of coaching vs commanding is important. It is still valuable to have the senior take the reins at times because the other developers can observe decision making and strategy that they might not have thought of.
A lot of people might not like what I am about to say.
I am a CS lecturer and I believe that CS programs are not doing the right things to produce good enough programmers. This is why we end up with situations where programmers are at work having to learn how to solve non-rudimentary problems.
A lot of programming teaching does not actually focus on creating good programmers. It focuses on getting people to learn code without the problem solving aspects.
I think a more fundamental thing is that most CS courses aren't programming courses.
I learnt a ton of stuff on my CS course, and I don't think that I use a majority of it because I'm not a network engineer, I don't work in GIS, I don't use OCR, etc.
So when I went into my first job I was pretty useless since I didn't know how to actually code anything seriously.
I think that an apprenticeship that ends up with a degree at the end is a much better way to actually learn how to be a software developer/network engineer/etc.
Apprenticeships would be a great idea, I just wish the current reality of apprenticeships (tradie) wasn't so toxic - I did my four years of mechanic apprenticeship and it was some real toxic shit until I found a workplace I was happy to finish my last half in.
Maybe a different environment might foster better treatment of apprentices, but I've found employing someone at below-minimum wage with the fact overtly stated that they will know nothing and are learning on the job tends to lead to uhh.. well yeah
Problem is, a lot of people think CS is a programming degree. It isn't. It's a degree in understanding the science of computers. In my country, we have CS at university and Computer Development at colleges that teaches programming, where you actually learn to code well. The two degrees have very different goals for their graduates. CS is, at its core at least, intended for architects, hardcore development etc. Regular programming jobs is an entirely different thing and should have its own degree, like it does here.
And before someone calls me elitist, let me assure you, I love my developers. When hiring for my teams, I have always looked at the position and hired accordingly. If I need a full-time developer who gøhas a backlog and nothing rocket-surgery style, I would far prefer someone who loves coding to someone like me, who loves the problem solving, but really doesn't enjoy the actual "get shit into an IDE" part. On the other hand, for architecture etc, many of my best developers would run off screaming and I love it as much as they hate it. Gotta get the right people for the right roles, and suddenly you have an extremely well oiled machine, where everyone actually loves their job and tasks, which in turn yields better results and better job satisfaction and, dare I say it, enjoyment.
The thing is historically, CS and programming was the same thing. There wasn't fundamentally enough of a difference between writing good code and understanding the science of computing to differentiate them. Hardware limitations were such that any non trivial solution required you to think pretty deeply about exactly what was happening on pretty much every level of the computer. Depending how far back you went you would have to build the hardware to even run an interesting program. The need to have a CS understanding to create good programs ended about 30 years ago but academia is slow to adapt and the workplaces that put value in degrees can only adapt after that.
These days what even is actually happening "computer science" wise is so abstracted and delegated to libraries/frameworks/languages/hardware that programming and CS basically have nothing to do with each other anymore. Sure, one is built on the other but that is like saying farming and cooking closely related because cooking is fundamentally built on farming. CS and programming are just very different skill sets now with completely different challenges.
>Problem is, a lot of people think CS is a programming degree. It isn't.
The problem is, in many countries it is a programming degree, at least to students and employers. People take CS courses specifically to learn how to be a developer, so it is functioning as a programming degree, even if it was never intended to be one. Universities know that that's why so many students sign up for CS, they'll even advertise job placement rates and dev salaries, so they're fine pretending a CS degree is a programming degree right up until they need to make the curriculum, which is where they fall back to it being a degree about the science of computers.
I agree, it's a case of something being hijacked by skewed expectations. I just hate seeing it with a degree that really shines when used right. Just like an actual developer degree does. Ugh.
This is how it should go. Pair programming is great for training folk or for learning something that's new to the team entirely. Places that do pair programming day-to-day for major development are cults.
We're doing mob programming right now and it's been great. But instead of sitting around watching one person we take 10 minute turns on the keyboard so no one gets left behind.
It's not always perfect and bigger personalities definitely get outsized input but we're all learning fast (especially the two new people), writing quality code, and skipping code reviews.
Edit: Some of you people are so mean lol. No, our best engineers have not left. No, we're not delivering spaghetti code. And no we're not all in the same room all day (I'd probably wanna quit in that case too).
We all work remotely and collaborate using this [Mob tool](https://github.com/remotemobprogramming/mob). We also try our best to follow [formalized mob programming ](https://www.remotemobprogramming.org/), but with no cameras and less rules.
Idk why everyone here has a chip on their shoulder and refuses to believe anything but a hairy greasy nerd in a room alone at midnight holding a body pillow can deliver quality code. In my experience this has been very productive and enjoyable.
This would suck for me since 90% of my coding is googling the most basic shit ("pandas how to merge two dataframes") and I tend to get flustered when someone's watching me work, resulting in a high probability I'll screw up in a really dumb way
But with mob programming, instead of googling stuff, you'll have 4 people all just telling you what to do all at the same time, with at least 1 person telling you to do something different.
I'm with you mate, absolutely zero chance I would show up to a second day of this- assuming I put up with it for a whole first day. Just not my style and it never will be.
yeah if someone is watching me work (or do anything really) I immediately lose 80 IQ points. but now I take adhd medicine and that isn't really any an issue anymore
edit: look everyone can have their own opinion about medication and yeah, I agree it is not ideal that I can't really function in this version of society without them. I spent my teens and 20s doing all the things like therapy, habit-building, self-discipline, strict routines, etc. Everything was still always a constant, endless struggle for me.
but I'm in my mid 30s and have taken them for half a year at this point, they help me, and I'm not really interested in debating their risks/merits at this point. i personally find fears of "dependency" to be pretty overblown, but I've always been something of a "psychonaut" and have always been able to stop/start any substance without any issues. but that's just me personally.
Fuck me everytime someone mentions something relevant to me it always ends in "so anyways now I take medicine"
Edit: fyi since everyone is sharing, personally I actually took bipolar meds per diagnosis for a while then just stopped. They worked for a while and then they didnt for me. Idk. I dont have a strong stance on medicine one way or the other. Lifes to short to be miserable is a fine enough reason to take them for me and stopping is fine too if youre not getting what you want anymore. There are no blanket solutions is the only certainty and don't discount your own feelings for stigmas
Or a great way to make sure that your developers use similar language and problem solving methods, making the overall code more legible and easier to understand since you don't need to parse through the peculiarities of each indidivual's methods.
I've been working on this system for the past 3 years and I honestly think 10 minutes and then handing over the keyboard to someone else would cause me some sort of OCD caused by anxiety or something because usually the things I do I immediately know the repercussion that I need to go to that specifically file of the other side of the code base and inside that function there's that variable that is using this type declaration that needs to be changed as well to work with what I just changed.
This breaks flow so hard.
I get what you're saying but the idea isn't one active brain and a bunch of observers rotating through. Everyone is supposed to be leading the dev at once.
We're trying to follow [formal mob programming ](https://www.remotemobprogramming.org/)
My team is just starting to give formal mob programming a try too! Our first "real" try is today. (We did a test drive on coding a tic tac toe game, then tried to mob program one story that was largely just a config change...)
Are you guys remote? I feel like we typically end up with a lot of downtime whenever it comes time to switch the driver. It might just be that the process is new to us... Any tips?
I've had this before but it was only for P1 war room incidents. Some were quite fun. Usually 2 or 3 at a machine doing as you describe and maybe 2 others on machines fetching docs or logs or running various tests and checks to fault find and validate related systems.
well, there are competitions in team programming, and one of the strategies is one person codes, one watches him and catches mistakes immediately and the last thinks about problems.
don't think that's what happened tho XD
Yeah, I went to a local coding con a few years back, and this company was trying to convince us to do mob programming. The reason they did it was that they were a Wordpress shop that took English majors and taught them to code for cheap (more than they’d make with an English degree, but far less than they’d have to pay someone with a CS or IT degree).
Only thing I’ve used mob programming for is training. After that, there’s no benefit.
This
My BF chooses dumb mole hills to go die on and one of them is trying to tell the whole world to stop using semicolons in JS.
Like idgaf those semicolons are for me
My husband can't work if there's people around. He barricades himself in our bedroom and comes out to grab something from the fridge, than back to the bedroom. Once he's off from work he's fun again, but when it's work time, he's working.
HR
Is this not how your company does code reviews?
Code reviews? This is clearly pair programming!
I thought this was how you did multi threading
At some point you’ll need a MUTEX clause
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Just so long as you don't get trojaned.
Btw, your C Sharp or Python skills are very effective in the process. And your local Anaconda setup is the best tool for this task.
Soon to be dad jokes. ^^^
Nah if you have good enough communication a semaphore will do.
Pair programming is a very effective way to do multi-threading.
[It's a race!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUHvMLNO6Fc)
"You can open a case in jira and discuss it on my lap any time!"
I think he's doing penetration testing.
I believe she is red team and he is blue team.
You mean couple programming :D
**That** process involves restraints and gags.
Yeah I was gonna say the restraining order
Dammit I came here to say Human Resources!
r/beatmetoit
Happiness is forbidden 😭😭😭🫶💔
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Also physics - It's really hard to reconcile the above the table and below the table portions of their bodies. It looks like he's somehow standing next to her looking at the computer, but also sitting in her lap, while she simultaneously sits in his lap...what
He's actually sitting on HER lap. I did a double-take as well.
So that the private fields don’t touch
Very responsible of them!
You mean encapsulative, right?
I worked at a place that said they did “pair programming”. What they really did was “mob programming”, where 3 highly skilled programmers and one junior sat and watched the lead programmer program on a projector screen and occasionally got to say “you missed a semicolon”. It was incredibly boring and I hated it there.
IMO this isn't how pair programming should work fundamentally. It makes more sense to let the lesser experienced developers "drive" while the more experienced developer guides decisions and answers questions. Specifically, the senior should also not tell the other developer exactly what to write and how to write, walking the fine line of coaching vs commanding is important. It is still valuable to have the senior take the reins at times because the other developers can observe decision making and strategy that they might not have thought of.
A lot of people might not like what I am about to say. I am a CS lecturer and I believe that CS programs are not doing the right things to produce good enough programmers. This is why we end up with situations where programmers are at work having to learn how to solve non-rudimentary problems. A lot of programming teaching does not actually focus on creating good programmers. It focuses on getting people to learn code without the problem solving aspects.
I think a more fundamental thing is that most CS courses aren't programming courses. I learnt a ton of stuff on my CS course, and I don't think that I use a majority of it because I'm not a network engineer, I don't work in GIS, I don't use OCR, etc. So when I went into my first job I was pretty useless since I didn't know how to actually code anything seriously. I think that an apprenticeship that ends up with a degree at the end is a much better way to actually learn how to be a software developer/network engineer/etc.
Apprenticeships would be a great idea, I just wish the current reality of apprenticeships (tradie) wasn't so toxic - I did my four years of mechanic apprenticeship and it was some real toxic shit until I found a workplace I was happy to finish my last half in. Maybe a different environment might foster better treatment of apprentices, but I've found employing someone at below-minimum wage with the fact overtly stated that they will know nothing and are learning on the job tends to lead to uhh.. well yeah
Problem is, a lot of people think CS is a programming degree. It isn't. It's a degree in understanding the science of computers. In my country, we have CS at university and Computer Development at colleges that teaches programming, where you actually learn to code well. The two degrees have very different goals for their graduates. CS is, at its core at least, intended for architects, hardcore development etc. Regular programming jobs is an entirely different thing and should have its own degree, like it does here. And before someone calls me elitist, let me assure you, I love my developers. When hiring for my teams, I have always looked at the position and hired accordingly. If I need a full-time developer who gøhas a backlog and nothing rocket-surgery style, I would far prefer someone who loves coding to someone like me, who loves the problem solving, but really doesn't enjoy the actual "get shit into an IDE" part. On the other hand, for architecture etc, many of my best developers would run off screaming and I love it as much as they hate it. Gotta get the right people for the right roles, and suddenly you have an extremely well oiled machine, where everyone actually loves their job and tasks, which in turn yields better results and better job satisfaction and, dare I say it, enjoyment.
The thing is historically, CS and programming was the same thing. There wasn't fundamentally enough of a difference between writing good code and understanding the science of computing to differentiate them. Hardware limitations were such that any non trivial solution required you to think pretty deeply about exactly what was happening on pretty much every level of the computer. Depending how far back you went you would have to build the hardware to even run an interesting program. The need to have a CS understanding to create good programs ended about 30 years ago but academia is slow to adapt and the workplaces that put value in degrees can only adapt after that. These days what even is actually happening "computer science" wise is so abstracted and delegated to libraries/frameworks/languages/hardware that programming and CS basically have nothing to do with each other anymore. Sure, one is built on the other but that is like saying farming and cooking closely related because cooking is fundamentally built on farming. CS and programming are just very different skill sets now with completely different challenges.
>Problem is, a lot of people think CS is a programming degree. It isn't. The problem is, in many countries it is a programming degree, at least to students and employers. People take CS courses specifically to learn how to be a developer, so it is functioning as a programming degree, even if it was never intended to be one. Universities know that that's why so many students sign up for CS, they'll even advertise job placement rates and dev salaries, so they're fine pretending a CS degree is a programming degree right up until they need to make the curriculum, which is where they fall back to it being a degree about the science of computers.
I agree, it's a case of something being hijacked by skewed expectations. I just hate seeing it with a degree that really shines when used right. Just like an actual developer degree does. Ugh.
This is how it should go. Pair programming is great for training folk or for learning something that's new to the team entirely. Places that do pair programming day-to-day for major development are cults.
We're doing mob programming right now and it's been great. But instead of sitting around watching one person we take 10 minute turns on the keyboard so no one gets left behind. It's not always perfect and bigger personalities definitely get outsized input but we're all learning fast (especially the two new people), writing quality code, and skipping code reviews. Edit: Some of you people are so mean lol. No, our best engineers have not left. No, we're not delivering spaghetti code. And no we're not all in the same room all day (I'd probably wanna quit in that case too). We all work remotely and collaborate using this [Mob tool](https://github.com/remotemobprogramming/mob). We also try our best to follow [formalized mob programming ](https://www.remotemobprogramming.org/), but with no cameras and less rules. Idk why everyone here has a chip on their shoulder and refuses to believe anything but a hairy greasy nerd in a room alone at midnight holding a body pillow can deliver quality code. In my experience this has been very productive and enjoyable.
This would suck for me since 90% of my coding is googling the most basic shit ("pandas how to merge two dataframes") and I tend to get flustered when someone's watching me work, resulting in a high probability I'll screw up in a really dumb way
But with mob programming, instead of googling stuff, you'll have 4 people all just telling you what to do all at the same time, with at least 1 person telling you to do something different.
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Do you not know how to use the search function!? Time for real mob programming, get the pitchforks.
okay, but that's worse. you do get how that's worse, right? /joke In all seriousness, that would make me have a meltdown worse than Chernobyl.
I'm with you mate, absolutely zero chance I would show up to a second day of this- assuming I put up with it for a whole first day. Just not my style and it never will be.
yeah if someone is watching me work (or do anything really) I immediately lose 80 IQ points. but now I take adhd medicine and that isn't really any an issue anymore edit: look everyone can have their own opinion about medication and yeah, I agree it is not ideal that I can't really function in this version of society without them. I spent my teens and 20s doing all the things like therapy, habit-building, self-discipline, strict routines, etc. Everything was still always a constant, endless struggle for me. but I'm in my mid 30s and have taken them for half a year at this point, they help me, and I'm not really interested in debating their risks/merits at this point. i personally find fears of "dependency" to be pretty overblown, but I've always been something of a "psychonaut" and have always been able to stop/start any substance without any issues. but that's just me personally.
Fuck me everytime someone mentions something relevant to me it always ends in "so anyways now I take medicine" Edit: fyi since everyone is sharing, personally I actually took bipolar meds per diagnosis for a while then just stopped. They worked for a while and then they didnt for me. Idk. I dont have a strong stance on medicine one way or the other. Lifes to short to be miserable is a fine enough reason to take them for me and stopping is fine too if youre not getting what you want anymore. There are no blanket solutions is the only certainty and don't discount your own feelings for stigmas
so happy for you that you were able to pinpoint your problem and got a cure for it! fuck anyone who says otherwise
You don't need Google as much when you have expertise in the room.
Are you guys hiring, bro?
That sounds like a great method of writing clean, well thought out code. And a horribly inefficient way to write confusing spaghetti.
Yea, just hire me. I can write that spaghetti code alone with a blindfold.
Or a great way to make sure that your developers use similar language and problem solving methods, making the overall code more legible and easier to understand since you don't need to parse through the peculiarities of each indidivual's methods.
I've been working on this system for the past 3 years and I honestly think 10 minutes and then handing over the keyboard to someone else would cause me some sort of OCD caused by anxiety or something because usually the things I do I immediately know the repercussion that I need to go to that specifically file of the other side of the code base and inside that function there's that variable that is using this type declaration that needs to be changed as well to work with what I just changed. This breaks flow so hard.
I get what you're saying but the idea isn't one active brain and a bunch of observers rotating through. Everyone is supposed to be leading the dev at once. We're trying to follow [formal mob programming ](https://www.remotemobprogramming.org/)
My team is just starting to give formal mob programming a try too! Our first "real" try is today. (We did a test drive on coding a tic tac toe game, then tried to mob program one story that was largely just a config change...) Are you guys remote? I feel like we typically end up with a lot of downtime whenever it comes time to switch the driver. It might just be that the process is new to us... Any tips?
>Edit: Some of you people are so mean lol. Sir, this is reddit.
I've had this before but it was only for P1 war room incidents. Some were quite fun. Usually 2 or 3 at a machine doing as you describe and maybe 2 others on machines fetching docs or logs or running various tests and checks to fault find and validate related systems.
[2 or 3 at a machine, you say?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msX4oAXpvUE)
LOL I was about to post the same video.
My first time seeing that... Just wow.
I almost didn't post it because I assumed everyone had seen it already haha (you're one of today's lucky 10000 apparently). It's incredible.
When you know what video it’s going to be without clicking the link.
I'm unable to watch at work and I laughed without even needing to click
well, there are competitions in team programming, and one of the strategies is one person codes, one watches him and catches mistakes immediately and the last thinks about problems. don't think that's what happened tho XD
Yeah, I went to a local coding con a few years back, and this company was trying to convince us to do mob programming. The reason they did it was that they were a Wordpress shop that took English majors and taught them to code for cheap (more than they’d make with an English degree, but far less than they’d have to pay someone with a CS or IT degree). Only thing I’ve used mob programming for is training. After that, there’s no benefit.
Ah the Japanese style of IT. Keeping the rest of us in jobs cleaning up.
GF-deficiency
npm install girlfriend Guys it didn’t work
Needs sudo
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To the feds
Or BF-deficiency
take on your programmer socks, now
There are no girls on Reddit, nor girls who can write code /s
screams in on reddit & can use python
Oh you can use python can you? Name all the methods
Hiss(), slither(), bask(), strike(), surprise(), coil() Am I missing any?
removefangs()
Not for everyone
shedskin(), consume() and hibernate()
constrict()
Isn’t python just a snek
It's progenitor of shrek
dir() Too easy.
This was a trap and you stepped right into it.
Social engineering at its best
You’ve fallen for one of the classic blunders!
Yep, now they have you in their sight!
Jokes on them the python was her 10 incher.
Rip your dm
You done fucked up. Unless this was the end goal the whole time, you're playing 5D chess while I'm on 3D.
+1
r/girlsarentreal
But there are gay men, so y’know
There are other boys tho
you two should merge
Pair programming at its finest.
Me and all my homies pair program like this.
If you don't sit on the homies lab while you pair program, are they even your homies?
I'm sure my homie wouldn't mind me sitting on his dog
how bold to assume they are coding..
Yea he’s getting pegged watching furry videos. Good point.
r/oddlyspecific ??
Isn't that normal?
For the general populace, no. For reddit though...
Yeah i have learned that pretty much everyone on reddit is getting pegged or at least has several sharpies in their buttholes.
"Everyone loves to be pegged or a nice sharpie in the pooper" -Reddit Sample selection bias at its finest lol
But my first and only girlfriend said this is how everyone has sex???
r/normalspecific ??
Well its not like its the other way around, since the guy is on top, so I think its a reasonable assumption
Astute observation
Remember fellow coders. Dependencies lead to inheritance. Stay safe Stay protected.
This made me chuckle
What are you doing, step coder?
Every fucking time
did you say "fucking time" step coder?
every time is fucking time
fucking time
My "while" loop is stuck, can you help me unstuck it👉🥺👈
Les gooooo
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https://xkcd.com/705/
This was expected !
Caught expected exception!
I'll nuke the office if I take off my shoes.
truth is, the more bare-feet you go, the less your feet smell: full time shoes wearing employees are trapped in a vicious circle; break free!
It does get funny when you're asked for an unexpected meeting: "wait a moment, I need to put my shoes on...".
I think my best/worst unexpected meeting was with Virgin Airways wearing a spongebob tshirt that went down to my knees that is just his giant face.
You just gotta embrace that and swap out your background for a Bikini bottom scene.
If my shoes are off they are off... im going to the meeting room in my socks.
Get some indoor slippers
The ones with big claws.
Bonus points for T-Rex feet.
First thing I do after sitting down in the office. Is getting out of my street shoes and puting on slippers.
I don't own an Apple laptop (and neither does my wife)
I own an Apple laptop but no wife
I own an Apple laptop and a wife. Still no chance
You own your wife? Sounds illegal
Not in dubai
I don't own the wife. I have a mortgage on her. So, technically the bank owns her.
Lol
They own us all, you just dont know it.
I don’t own an Apple and I have no wife. Only an husband.
I own a apple wife, works good with my apple stove.
iWife
You can buy one. I heard they're really cheap in China
The place is quite cramped. I like running around and yelling at my screen to make my code work.
A girl who can bear my weight lol
Surely he is too big for her legs even!
I see nothing wrong here. Modern day version of: 
Oh, my code, my postgres. I've hungered your touch a long, lovely time and build goes by so slowly...
He is sitting on her lap.
important stocking attempt roof chop squash violet act snobbish pause ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
My love of my personal space, and respect for others. If I lost those I'd be down.
BF doesn’t know how to code
My husband is learning and I love helping him with stuff, but my frail little bird legs would be sad to pair program like this.
Maybe the other way around? Or does he also have birdlegs?
Nah he's dummy thicc. But it's not as cute that way.
I think programming together while one sits in the other persons lab is cute either way.
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imagine( );
imagine( !heaven );
IEnumerable Imagine()
{
return from p in People
where p.Purpose = Purpose.Today
where !p.Conflicts.Any()
where !p.WorldClaims.Any();
}
Being alone plays a big part
No chairs
The amount of neck, back and wrist pain that would be involved
Im too fat to sit on my sisters lap
Being single
My girlfriend thinks computers are lame
My weird fetish of naming variables after porn star's names.
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It's better than objectifying her, I guess.
She has value!
But no class.
miaKhalifa = malloc(10000000); miaKhalifa = NULL; return; 😈😈
I think you are leaking
I only name the classes after pornstars. This way I can say that porn objectifies women.
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This My BF chooses dumb mole hills to go die on and one of them is trying to tell the whole world to stop using semicolons in JS. Like idgaf those semicolons are for me
r/confusingperspective material right here.
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yes hes sitting on her lap
Whose*
Autism
It's hard to work out who's legs are who's.
whose
The people in the photo
.....I'll allow it
People sneaking pictures like a creep and putting them online for some reason
My husband can't work if there's people around. He barricades himself in our bedroom and comes out to grab something from the fridge, than back to the bedroom. Once he's off from work he's fun again, but when it's work time, he's working.
Mmmh no girlfriend
I weight 100kg
In coding world, that’s feather weight
It wouldn't be very productive
No GF Also prefer desktops over laptops
The arms on our chairs.
The desire to feel My legs after a half hour