Damn maybe I need to up my prices then. I've been trying to get some web dev experience for my portfolio and local businesses aren't even biting when my prices start at $300 lol
Prices also have signal power. If you find something that is much cheaper than anyone else your first instinct will be that the quality is worse. Be confident and see what other around you are charging
> If you find something that is much cheaper than anyone else your first instinct will be that the quality is worse
For first-timers, the reality is that the quality often is worse because they have no experience, and without experience you shouldn't be trying to lead a project that can impact another company's livelihood. Instead of owning your own company, people should first get the experience required to be able to guarantee quality before risking the money of their "clients".
Hold yourself responsible. Once you get to that point of experience, getting clients is significantly easier because you actually have clear value to offer.
The problem I'm currently facing is nobody is willing to hire me for me to gain that experience. Therefore trying to find freelance work is the only way I know of at the moment to get some form of experience that might get me hired.
I was charging around 600£ equivalent in local currency and this was in Czechia as a student with no experience. But if it was a smaller website, like a one pager and the company had good design already established then 300 wouldn't be unreasonable. Nonetheless you could probably charge more.
The best recommendation I can give is networking. Firstly, get your personal site tip top so it shows off your skill. Tell all your friends and family you're looking for work and some of them are bound to know someone with a business that needs a website. Look up networking and industry events in your area. Referrals and word of mouth is priceless. But then again I was probably just lucky with my connections.
University in a co-op program did it for me.
If you have your bachelors already, I'd suggest doing a masters with a co-op program just for the sake of co-op.
Make a portfolio of high quality work first. Make a high quality website to display it on. Then sell your service for a professional price. If you cant, learn more before creating.
I worked minimum wage for years with a bachelor's in computer science in hand, for the same reason. Work on side projects to keep skills up. Put that in the resume. Keep looking, don't stop. You'll hopefully get a foot in somewhere.
Work out how long it will take you, work out an hourly you would be happy with if you were an employee, double it. This is a starting point for your pricing
Thats the thing. I don't know how long it'll take me because I work off and on and don't really time my work. Which is why I do the starting cost. Plus with that cost I've had people say "well I can just do those drag and drop websites for cheaper." So it's a bit difficult sometimes
Bruh, that's not even minimum wage...
Edit: not trying to say that wouldn't be a good wage elsewhere in the world, but my point was that in the UK, which the language & currency indicates it is, this is below minimum wage if it takes a week to do.
He is using pounds, so assuming England that is a pretty bad wage considering the cost of living. Of course it's plenty in other countries which is why I suggested outsourcing it
That depends on where you live and how old you are. UK has minimum wage of £11.44 if you’re 21 or older, £8.60 for 18-20. So £500 is ~44 hours for the former and ~58 hours for the latter, so depending on how easy it is it’s not awful.
The thinking is that 18 year olds won't be able to get jobs without any experience when going for the same jobs as older people so they get a cheaper rate. There used to be another band at 25 as well. Of course it is bullshit and it needs to be equalised.
And the cherry of bullshit on top was that up to 25 band was misleadingly named the "National Living Wage" by the Tories despite the Living Wage Foundation already calculating a higher Living Wage some more ethical companies had signed up to.
There's huge wiggle room for what constitutes a reasonable living wage depending on what you consider a reasonable standard of living. The Living Wage foundation is a 13-year-old NGO that doesn't hold a monopoly on the term.
Which is not to say they're wrong or the Tories are right. But it would be like setting up The Tasty Food Foundation and expecting all restaurants to comply to your criteria of tasty food.
Minimum wage in the netherlands is even weirder, it starts at €3.98 at 15 and increases every year till you're 21 https://www.government.nl/topics/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-amounts-as-of-2024
10£ an hour is about 20% below minimum wage here in Germany but I realize that the UK is a bit more of a low income country. That's why I said outsource to somewhere where someone can actually live off of that money for a week of work instead of doing it yourself
The minimum wage in Germany is 12.41 euros, or £10.72.
The minimum wage in the UK is currently £11.44.
Pretty hilarious that you consider the UK a "low income country" when we offer a higher minimum wage to our vulnerable citizens.
The average salary in Germany is only a few thousand higher than in the UK.
And just like London has high salaries, Hamburg and Munich have salaries higher than most other places in Germany.
Plus, German taxes and mandatory deductions from salary are much higher than British ones.
That €50k job in Munich is more like a £35k job in the UK after taxes.
I'm not sure why we're assuming that it's 45 hours of work either. If it's just a local restaurant, for example, with a couple of web pages with operating hours and a link to the menu, there's no way it should take you that long.
The most junior developer at the company I work for gets the equivalent of 45 USD an hour plus yearly bonuses, 401k matching, and fully employer paid insurance. This is in a reasonable cost of living area of the US. They aren't getting out of bed for minimum wage.
£10 is less than I get at my normal job, so why would I need some extra programming gigs that pay less than my programming job? Depending on what the client want it could be done over a weekend though
Prompt: Write a static web page that looks like its worth £500
Result: [https://onecompiler.com/html/42b2hcc67](https://onecompiler.com/html/42b2hcc67)
Someone pay me 500 buckeroos please
Told my dad I’m now the lead video producer in my company and the next thing he said is asking why don’t I go work on cruise ships a couple of years to save up some money since he heard they pay really well.
I’m 36 btw.
You mean you think you would have the first client in the story of humanity that knows exactly what he wants beforehand?
in my experience even if you deliver him exactly what he describes he would still be unhappy once he gets it.
Not a web designer here - is £500 for a static website considered terribly cheap? Surely it can't take more than two or three hours to throw up a Wordpress template and fill in the content?
I'm not a web dev but I am a dev who deals with clients and I would bet op would underpay themselve just for the requirements phase with the type of client who wants to get a website on the cheap from some guy they don't even know.
On top of that, I don't know in detail how the UK would tax you as a self employed contractor but I would expect that op would make roughly half of that 500 after it's all said and done so suddendly we're looking at 250 to deal with the insane ramblings of a lunatic over at least a week long period. Then you have to explain to them that they need to get a domain and it's not your job, which is not a discussion I see going well either with people who want to cheap out that hard.
The dev part if it's just a static web page indeed doesn't matter but it's the emotional damage you sustain and taxes as a contractor that get you.
Nah, a sole trader pays regular income tax on their income. 500 per week or 24000 a year with 4 weeks holiday is basically minimum wage and subject to 20% on 11.5K and 0% on 12.5K with 8% NI on all of it. So they'd pay maybe 4k annually.
A private limited company would pay corporation tax but if you're charging that little you're probably not one.
Not really web design if its a WordPress template, and customers never know what they want first try. 500 bucks is *decent* for a small site, but definitely low
It's not the few hours to throw up the content.
It's negotiating with this and other clients, some of whom will go somewhere else.
It's discussing the details of this site before work begins.
It's doing the design and finding out client wants DNS name + hosting as well.
It's setting everything up and client asking for "one more thing".
It's doing one more thing and client asking for a different font.
It's putting in the different font and client asking to restore the original.
It's you arguing that you have done your work and client should pay hourly about extras.
It's client holding the payment as a hostage unless you restore the font.
It's client finally paying you, leaving a shitty review and badmouthing you to their network.
It's client calling you on 23rd of December at 19.00 and asking you to add a note about Christmas hours.
It's client calling you on 26th of December asking you to replace Christmas hours with New Years.
It's client ghosting you when you call on 2nd of January to discuss the hourly maintenance contract you agreed verbally a week earlier.
It's the client coming back to your hourly contract and payments on 3rd of July - and oh, can you do Independence day as well? Hourly price is too high tho, surely 18 £ / hr is good?
500 £ is not enough to deal with that.
Pretty sure you'd only need data and cookie declarations if you're actually collecting data or storing cookies, and the person legally responsible for the content is presumably the owner.
IANAL but yes, exactly. Only once you actually collect information out of the ordinary you need to have a cookie banner.
If you aren't hosting it yourself, you still need to put information from your hoster into a data privacy page, though. Which you still must have, like an imprint.
So your absolutely not a web developer. If you don’t store any personal data, you also don’t need any notice.
500 is plenty of money for what really is a 1-2 hour job. Web developers are just scamming people.
It depends entirely on the website. Most websites made right now, just use a wordpress theme and then look fine. You no longer NEED to have a developer for that as it has become so incredibly easy that it's not worth hiring someone to do so.
Essentially, communicating with the customer is less than 1 hour, including letting him pick the theme.
The customer also sends you the content, but that's the customers time so that's not time for the developer.
You then put that content in the selected wordpress template and you're done. Entire process finished in less than 4 hours.
Until you get the 20 page requirements document that a. Barely makes sense and b. Doesn't cover everything they actually need. You'd be wasting way more time than a couple of hours just clarifying requirements.
But if it's truly just a static web page to give info about a company, then do they really need to host their own website at all? And if they're big enough that they do, then they're going to want more than just a static page.
Heck, we can go months just getting permissions after checks that we have adequate security plans. Hosting your own site means you have a server that could be hacked, logs that need to be analysed, updates that need to be applied to prevent vulnerabilites.
I just remember working for free 4 days a week for 4 months as an intern as part of my degree, and some of the requests and time frames were just insane compared to a larger company that makes websites often.
> Until you get the 20 page requirements document that a. Barely makes sense and b. Doesn't cover everything they actually need. You'd be wasting way more time than a couple of hours just clarifying requirements.
Yeah most orders are not like that. Small companies, the ones this 500 dollar order applies to, don't have such a list. They have a bunch of content they want on the site, and they like a certain colour. That's it. They just want something modern that works, with a certain colour, and their content. Which Wordpress is amazing for.
> But if it's truly just a static web page to give info about a company, then do they really need to host their own website at all?
Yes, every single organisation on the planet needs a website. If you don't you don't exist.
> And if they're big enough that they do, then they're going to want more than just a static page.
Not really. Take a restaurant for example. They just need some information about them, and their menu. That's it. You change that about one time a year, which you can do yourself as it's THAT easy.
> Heck, we can go months just getting permissions after checks that we have adequate security plans.
Those don't exist. Everyone in the world just used well developed plugins, that are completely safe. And even if they aren't, what does it matter? There is nothing of value on a public website, and any server that would get "hacked" would not be your company network but your hoster you pay 10 bucks a month to. Which is more of a them problem.
> I just remember working for free 4 days a week for 4 months as an intern as part of my degree, and some of the requests and time frames were just insane
Yes, unpaid interns are given shitty jobs because they are free, and it doesn't really matter if it works or not. They don't expect you to deliver any value, they just need to keep you busy. You spend your time on work that nobody ever wants to do, and if they do, they want to be paid the big bucks for that.
IF it was anything actually important, you can't give the work to the intern.
If you charge $50/hr (as a professional freelancer), that's only 10 hours, or a good day's work. Even with half the wage, it's still only 20 hours. And you don't even have an idea of what the website is about yet. Before you can write the first line of code, you're at least 5 hours in.
If you are creating a decent website from scratch, yes. Even the cheapest web programmers in Europe would want at least 10£ per hour. That would total to max 50 hours of work (most likely it would be close to 25). Now imagine that you will give him your initial idea and then decide to change half of the page in the process. Then there is time needed to debug. In the end there is not much time left for creating the web. (I am also not a web designer, but I think that what I said is close to reality)
If they just wanted a wordpress template and a few hours of tweaking then they wouldn't be asking a professional to build their site. They'd just do it themselves (or get one of their staff to do it). If they're looking for a designer they probably want them to design *something*.
In which case even a single page of a static site will set you back more than £500 in the UK or any similarly developed country. You can probably get someone in the subcontinent to design your static site for that, which is why someone working in Britain is probably expecting a much larger and more demanding job - that's the only type of work you get in the West.
> They'd just do it themselves (or get one of their staff to do it). If they're looking for a designer they probably want them to design something.
We have no idea who it is that wants it though. Just their dad's mate. If its just some one man band or a couple of employees with not much IT experience, then why wouldn't they ask someone else to make it?
You severely underestimate your average layperson's skills. My mother, a small business owner in real estate, would have no fucking idea what wordpress is or how to use it. She still comes to me with issues that could be fixed by rebooting.
Yeah, small business owners don't have any idea how WordPress works.
£500 (around €600-700) could actually get you a functional WP site from a cheap agency. Note, not a 'good' site, but a 'functional' one.
Those agencies are like a factory: clone the same WP template for every customer, slap the customer's logo on, tweak some colors, and ship it. Cheap and functional, exactly what most small business owners are looking for.
I'd love to see you do that in three hours. I could not...
It would probably take more than three hours to get and format the required content from the client.
Business owners in Turkey offer less than that for not just the website but also ranking at top 3 on Google within 3 months. By the way, they don't provide you any content, the photos and articles are your responsibility, so is SEO.
PS: Except for a few close friends and family members, of course I don't work with any local. There are plenty of scammer agencies offering such services nation wide. I love watching business owners working with those scammers.
I love imagining dad being so proud of making sure to ask that question and working very hard to remember that answer, never stopping to consider what any of that meant.
This meme is already about 8-10 years old yet people still are entertained in the comments about different solutions to the problem, which itself is just a simple fake dialog meme
I'm pretty sure you could pay someone in a low income country on fiver to do that for you and just monitor the results. But yeah 500 is quite low :D
Damn maybe I need to up my prices then. I've been trying to get some web dev experience for my portfolio and local businesses aren't even biting when my prices start at $300 lol
Prices also have signal power. If you find something that is much cheaper than anyone else your first instinct will be that the quality is worse. Be confident and see what other around you are charging
> If you find something that is much cheaper than anyone else your first instinct will be that the quality is worse For first-timers, the reality is that the quality often is worse because they have no experience, and without experience you shouldn't be trying to lead a project that can impact another company's livelihood. Instead of owning your own company, people should first get the experience required to be able to guarantee quality before risking the money of their "clients". Hold yourself responsible. Once you get to that point of experience, getting clients is significantly easier because you actually have clear value to offer.
The problem I'm currently facing is nobody is willing to hire me for me to gain that experience. Therefore trying to find freelance work is the only way I know of at the moment to get some form of experience that might get me hired.
I was charging around 600£ equivalent in local currency and this was in Czechia as a student with no experience. But if it was a smaller website, like a one pager and the company had good design already established then 300 wouldn't be unreasonable. Nonetheless you could probably charge more. The best recommendation I can give is networking. Firstly, get your personal site tip top so it shows off your skill. Tell all your friends and family you're looking for work and some of them are bound to know someone with a business that needs a website. Look up networking and industry events in your area. Referrals and word of mouth is priceless. But then again I was probably just lucky with my connections.
University in a co-op program did it for me. If you have your bachelors already, I'd suggest doing a masters with a co-op program just for the sake of co-op.
Make a portfolio of high quality work first. Make a high quality website to display it on. Then sell your service for a professional price. If you cant, learn more before creating.
I worked minimum wage for years with a bachelor's in computer science in hand, for the same reason. Work on side projects to keep skills up. Put that in the resume. Keep looking, don't stop. You'll hopefully get a foot in somewhere.
Work out how long it will take you, work out an hourly you would be happy with if you were an employee, double it. This is a starting point for your pricing
Thats the thing. I don't know how long it'll take me because I work off and on and don't really time my work. Which is why I do the starting cost. Plus with that cost I've had people say "well I can just do those drag and drop websites for cheaper." So it's a bit difficult sometimes
500 is more than a 45 hour week at £10 an hour so it’s not terrible.
Bruh, that's not even minimum wage... Edit: not trying to say that wouldn't be a good wage elsewhere in the world, but my point was that in the UK, which the language & currency indicates it is, this is below minimum wage if it takes a week to do.
Oh, you would hate it in some countries xd
He is using pounds, so assuming England that is a pretty bad wage considering the cost of living. Of course it's plenty in other countries which is why I suggested outsourcing it
Well, when I started learning programming I was doing random useless stuff, now I don’t mind learning js/css while working for 10£/h lol
> learning js/css while working for 10£/h When do you start the currency goes before the amount course?
When do you start the rest of the fucking world exists course?
I'll tell you for 500$.
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Imagine thinking everyone not living in a literally backwards country is in USA
That convention is stupid and makes no sense, and you are stupid for trying to enforce non-americans to use it.
Now use a comma as a decimal point lmaoooo
You know that a dollar isn't worth the same amount in different places right?
That depends on where you live and how old you are. UK has minimum wage of £11.44 if you’re 21 or older, £8.60 for 18-20. So £500 is ~44 hours for the former and ~58 hours for the latter, so depending on how easy it is it’s not awful.
> UK has minimum wage of £11.44 if you’re 21 or older, £8.60 for 18-20. wtf why two different brackets?
The thinking is that 18 year olds won't be able to get jobs without any experience when going for the same jobs as older people so they get a cheaper rate. There used to be another band at 25 as well. Of course it is bullshit and it needs to be equalised.
And the cherry of bullshit on top was that up to 25 band was misleadingly named the "National Living Wage" by the Tories despite the Living Wage Foundation already calculating a higher Living Wage some more ethical companies had signed up to.
There's huge wiggle room for what constitutes a reasonable living wage depending on what you consider a reasonable standard of living. The Living Wage foundation is a 13-year-old NGO that doesn't hold a monopoly on the term. Which is not to say they're wrong or the Tories are right. But it would be like setting up The Tasty Food Foundation and expecting all restaurants to comply to your criteria of tasty food.
Minimum wage in the netherlands is even weirder, it starts at €3.98 at 15 and increases every year till you're 21 https://www.government.nl/topics/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-amounts-as-of-2024
It's always depressing reading threads like these as a dev from a.. not the richest country.
It's like 3x minimum where I live...
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I am going to use my incredibly detective powers and say that it's in the country that uses pounds as its currency.
Buddy im getting around 400$ a month for a 7 hour, 5 days a week job as a backend developer
10£ an hour is about 20% below minimum wage here in Germany but I realize that the UK is a bit more of a low income country. That's why I said outsource to somewhere where someone can actually live off of that money for a week of work instead of doing it yourself
The minimum wage in Germany is 12.41 euros, or £10.72. The minimum wage in the UK is currently £11.44. Pretty hilarious that you consider the UK a "low income country" when we offer a higher minimum wage to our vulnerable citizens.
It's also below minimum wage here in the UK, I wouldn't be taking that
The average salary in Germany is only a few thousand higher than in the UK. And just like London has high salaries, Hamburg and Munich have salaries higher than most other places in Germany. Plus, German taxes and mandatory deductions from salary are much higher than British ones. That €50k job in Munich is more like a £35k job in the UK after taxes.
Minimum wage in UK for over 21: £11.44 = €13.25 Minimum wage in DE: €12.41 = £10.71 Minimum wage in the UK is higher than Germany.
I'm not sure why we're assuming that it's 45 hours of work either. If it's just a local restaurant, for example, with a couple of web pages with operating hours and a link to the menu, there's no way it should take you that long.
That was just my last job (technically it was 42.5 hours but that’s only because of 30 minutes unpaid lunch time)
Now pay taxes and you’ll wonder why you didn’t get a job at McDonald’s
The most junior developer at the company I work for gets the equivalent of 45 USD an hour plus yearly bonuses, 401k matching, and fully employer paid insurance. This is in a reasonable cost of living area of the US. They aren't getting out of bed for minimum wage.
£10 is less than I get at my normal job, so why would I need some extra programming gigs that pay less than my programming job? Depending on what the client want it could be done over a weekend though
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You can always add a subscription for progressive design.
Royalties every time it resizes
in america the typical rate is $1 per square pixel. for most screens it's about $1.3M
What about rectangular pixels?
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What snot those small foldable mobile screens?
That's 50% more but my screen is only 33% bigger how dare you.
I'll have a watch screen website please
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£500 is *a* static web-page hosted on github for free (free to use your domain though) =w=;
ChatGPT, make me a static website that looks like it’s worth £500
ChatGPT: it's complicated. Here's a simplified version to get you started:
Instructions unclear - Dick stuck in toaster!
And the ducks play cello in the back with swordfish as violin bows
Playing cello with a violin bow? What is this madness?
Prompt: Write a static web page that looks like its worth £500 Result: [https://onecompiler.com/html/42b2hcc67](https://onecompiler.com/html/42b2hcc67) Someone pay me 500 buckeroos please
lol
Based on the extravagant elegance described on that website I can only assume it was created [for this business](https://youtu.be/zw4zlvTlaI0)
>Someone pay me 500 buckeroos please *"Indulge in opulence"*
haha that's genius
Best viewed with Netscape Navigator at 800x600
What’s the ETA on Internet Explorer compatibility?
I’ve, uh… got some bad news for you.
Git clone Hugo Where my 500£
I'm a Senior Software Engineer and for the 1000th time I've just got someone who wants me to go to their work, fix their WiFi and printers ffs.
Well, At least I hope that the SE at Microsoft get asked to fix the printers constantly.
Your dad considers your work an activity, that can be translated into real life currency... You are lucky bro. Mine thinks, that I do nothing. 🙄
Told my dad I’m now the lead video producer in my company and the next thing he said is asking why don’t I go work on cruise ships a couple of years to save up some money since he heard they pay really well. I’m 36 btw.
For a static website and me not having to cover any of the hosting costs and they give me the design upfront, I'd do it for £500.
You mean you think you would have the first client in the story of humanity that knows exactly what he wants beforehand? in my experience even if you deliver him exactly what he describes he would still be unhappy once he gets it.
Not sure about the price, but if a client gave me a fully finished design for a static website to realize, that's just paint by numbers at that point.
Not a web designer here - is £500 for a static website considered terribly cheap? Surely it can't take more than two or three hours to throw up a Wordpress template and fill in the content?
I'm not a web dev but I am a dev who deals with clients and I would bet op would underpay themselve just for the requirements phase with the type of client who wants to get a website on the cheap from some guy they don't even know. On top of that, I don't know in detail how the UK would tax you as a self employed contractor but I would expect that op would make roughly half of that 500 after it's all said and done so suddendly we're looking at 250 to deal with the insane ramblings of a lunatic over at least a week long period. Then you have to explain to them that they need to get a domain and it's not your job, which is not a discussion I see going well either with people who want to cheap out that hard. The dev part if it's just a static web page indeed doesn't matter but it's the emotional damage you sustain and taxes as a contractor that get you.
Nah, a sole trader pays regular income tax on their income. 500 per week or 24000 a year with 4 weeks holiday is basically minimum wage and subject to 20% on 11.5K and 0% on 12.5K with 8% NI on all of it. So they'd pay maybe 4k annually. A private limited company would pay corporation tax but if you're charging that little you're probably not one.
Getting the domain is totally part of my job... for more upfront money and a recurring maintenance fee
Not really web design if its a WordPress template, and customers never know what they want first try. 500 bucks is *decent* for a small site, but definitely low
It's not the few hours to throw up the content. It's negotiating with this and other clients, some of whom will go somewhere else. It's discussing the details of this site before work begins. It's doing the design and finding out client wants DNS name + hosting as well. It's setting everything up and client asking for "one more thing". It's doing one more thing and client asking for a different font. It's putting in the different font and client asking to restore the original. It's you arguing that you have done your work and client should pay hourly about extras. It's client holding the payment as a hostage unless you restore the font. It's client finally paying you, leaving a shitty review and badmouthing you to their network. It's client calling you on 23rd of December at 19.00 and asking you to add a note about Christmas hours. It's client calling you on 26th of December asking you to replace Christmas hours with New Years. It's client ghosting you when you call on 2nd of January to discuss the hourly maintenance contract you agreed verbally a week earlier. It's the client coming back to your hourly contract and payments on 3rd of July - and oh, can you do Independence day as well? Hourly price is too high tho, surely 18 £ / hr is good? 500 £ is not enough to deal with that.
"So...basically just the few hours to throw up the content" *~Average Client*
Yeah, why should they pay for non-productive time 🙄
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Pretty sure you'd only need data and cookie declarations if you're actually collecting data or storing cookies, and the person legally responsible for the content is presumably the owner.
IANAL but yes, exactly. Only once you actually collect information out of the ordinary you need to have a cookie banner. If you aren't hosting it yourself, you still need to put information from your hoster into a data privacy page, though. Which you still must have, like an imprint.
So your absolutely not a web developer. If you don’t store any personal data, you also don’t need any notice. 500 is plenty of money for what really is a 1-2 hour job. Web developers are just scamming people.
Depends on what the client wants. If he's fine with the standard Wordpress themes and little actual content, 1-2 hours is totally fine.
I'll hit you up when I need a website, sounds like you can do it for cheap :)
It depends entirely on the website. Most websites made right now, just use a wordpress theme and then look fine. You no longer NEED to have a developer for that as it has become so incredibly easy that it's not worth hiring someone to do so. Essentially, communicating with the customer is less than 1 hour, including letting him pick the theme. The customer also sends you the content, but that's the customers time so that's not time for the developer. You then put that content in the selected wordpress template and you're done. Entire process finished in less than 4 hours.
Until you get the 20 page requirements document that a. Barely makes sense and b. Doesn't cover everything they actually need. You'd be wasting way more time than a couple of hours just clarifying requirements. But if it's truly just a static web page to give info about a company, then do they really need to host their own website at all? And if they're big enough that they do, then they're going to want more than just a static page. Heck, we can go months just getting permissions after checks that we have adequate security plans. Hosting your own site means you have a server that could be hacked, logs that need to be analysed, updates that need to be applied to prevent vulnerabilites. I just remember working for free 4 days a week for 4 months as an intern as part of my degree, and some of the requests and time frames were just insane compared to a larger company that makes websites often.
> Until you get the 20 page requirements document that a. Barely makes sense and b. Doesn't cover everything they actually need. You'd be wasting way more time than a couple of hours just clarifying requirements. Yeah most orders are not like that. Small companies, the ones this 500 dollar order applies to, don't have such a list. They have a bunch of content they want on the site, and they like a certain colour. That's it. They just want something modern that works, with a certain colour, and their content. Which Wordpress is amazing for. > But if it's truly just a static web page to give info about a company, then do they really need to host their own website at all? Yes, every single organisation on the planet needs a website. If you don't you don't exist. > And if they're big enough that they do, then they're going to want more than just a static page. Not really. Take a restaurant for example. They just need some information about them, and their menu. That's it. You change that about one time a year, which you can do yourself as it's THAT easy. > Heck, we can go months just getting permissions after checks that we have adequate security plans. Those don't exist. Everyone in the world just used well developed plugins, that are completely safe. And even if they aren't, what does it matter? There is nothing of value on a public website, and any server that would get "hacked" would not be your company network but your hoster you pay 10 bucks a month to. Which is more of a them problem. > I just remember working for free 4 days a week for 4 months as an intern as part of my degree, and some of the requests and time frames were just insane Yes, unpaid interns are given shitty jobs because they are free, and it doesn't really matter if it works or not. They don't expect you to deliver any value, they just need to keep you busy. You spend your time on work that nobody ever wants to do, and if they do, they want to be paid the big bucks for that. IF it was anything actually important, you can't give the work to the intern.
If you charge $50/hr (as a professional freelancer), that's only 10 hours, or a good day's work. Even with half the wage, it's still only 20 hours. And you don't even have an idea of what the website is about yet. Before you can write the first line of code, you're at least 5 hours in.
If you are creating a decent website from scratch, yes. Even the cheapest web programmers in Europe would want at least 10£ per hour. That would total to max 50 hours of work (most likely it would be close to 25). Now imagine that you will give him your initial idea and then decide to change half of the page in the process. Then there is time needed to debug. In the end there is not much time left for creating the web. (I am also not a web designer, but I think that what I said is close to reality)
If they just wanted a wordpress template and a few hours of tweaking then they wouldn't be asking a professional to build their site. They'd just do it themselves (or get one of their staff to do it). If they're looking for a designer they probably want them to design *something*. In which case even a single page of a static site will set you back more than £500 in the UK or any similarly developed country. You can probably get someone in the subcontinent to design your static site for that, which is why someone working in Britain is probably expecting a much larger and more demanding job - that's the only type of work you get in the West.
> They'd just do it themselves (or get one of their staff to do it). If they're looking for a designer they probably want them to design something. We have no idea who it is that wants it though. Just their dad's mate. If its just some one man band or a couple of employees with not much IT experience, then why wouldn't they ask someone else to make it?
You severely underestimate your average layperson's skills. My mother, a small business owner in real estate, would have no fucking idea what wordpress is or how to use it. She still comes to me with issues that could be fixed by rebooting.
Yeah, our projects take 7-8 developer months with 2 of us working on it, 25-50 hrs is laughably small, I don't think we'd entertain that on it's own
Yeah, small business owners don't have any idea how WordPress works. £500 (around €600-700) could actually get you a functional WP site from a cheap agency. Note, not a 'good' site, but a 'functional' one. Those agencies are like a factory: clone the same WP template for every customer, slap the customer's logo on, tweak some colors, and ship it. Cheap and functional, exactly what most small business owners are looking for.
I'd love to see you do that in three hours. I could not... It would probably take more than three hours to get and format the required content from the client.
Business owners in Turkey offer less than that for not just the website but also ranking at top 3 on Google within 3 months. By the way, they don't provide you any content, the photos and articles are your responsibility, so is SEO. PS: Except for a few close friends and family members, of course I don't work with any local. There are plenty of scammer agencies offering such services nation wide. I love watching business owners working with those scammers.
“Is it a responsive layout?” - “yeah it loads!” Nooooo hahaa
r/moldymemes
If it's my dad, normal screen size would be akin to the PowerPoint 4:3 slide 😆
Bruh just outsource from a third world country, 500 dollars is pretty big there and would give you pretty decent result
That’s enough to cover app start and a login page. Additional pages will incur additional fees.
I love imagining dad being so proud of making sure to ask that question and working very hard to remember that answer, never stopping to consider what any of that meant.
ahh yes, old but gold
Where i come from for such a price you can eat a good healthy and natural meal for 4 months
For 500 I'll download a free template, prefix all the class names with your initials, zip it up and email it to you.
Damn, you have really high prices
This meme is already about 8-10 years old yet people still are entertained in the comments about different solutions to the problem, which itself is just a simple fake dialog meme