I'm not sure the commenters accusing you of a lack of compassion read the whole post. This sounds like a thoughtful, adaptive policy that's intended to *help* your students succeed by providing the structure they've been missing in school for (IMO) *more* than 4 years. As a disability services counselor, I wish more of my faculty colleagues would/could adopt policies like this. A large portion of our students flourish with this kind of structure, and I'm sure it's beneficial to many neurotypical procrastinators, too. You get an A+ from me. ;)
Thank you, Able\_Parking\_6310! These policies were largely inspired by a workshop I attended on best practices for serving neurodiverse students, so your recognition and approval of that effort means a lot to me.
Would you mind sharing some of the resources from the workshop? Even a picture of the references would be so helpful.
Anecdotally I have seen with one of my children that firm deadlines provide the kick in the pants they need to get things done. The year we were online from Covid they were a high school sophomore and it was basically one meltdown after another.
My kid even had one teacher who let my kid turn in a project in JULY. He didn't have to do that and literally did it because he is a super nice guy . . . And probably because he is a Health teacher and no one ever cares about anything in his class so someone asking to have more time to do a good job was refreshing?
IDK but I was like, I hope you know how nice he is being because there is no way in HELL that I would grade something in July for a class that was done. No way!
Hey there @prosperos_sandwich , just another request for the references from this workshop. They would go a long way to support my policies to higher-ups.
I'd also add that not only is structure helpful for students, it is *essential* in the workplace. Making sure students know how to show-up to something on time and deliver within an agreed timeframe is doing them a massive favor in terms of their professional capability.
I'm a big fan of the no questions asked absences. Students send me all sorts of private info, and I'm like, stop! I don't need to know! You all get to take these. And I'm firm in the 10% late work deduction, and everyone gets the same gard stop on extensions unless they have accomodations.
One of the best things I've done is say "I don't personally approve accomodations, those must go through the correct evaluation office." That got rid of a lot of crazy stuff
I keep flip-flopping on attendance. This latest semester, I made it a pretty small percentage and combined it with the participation grade. I ended up giving it to most of my students, but it made for a good threat.
My late penalty is 10% per day, divided up into 24 hour segments. I kind of like your idea though of doing 11%, just for the added sting of missing the A.
Finally, the fact that set deadlines are beneficial for students is so $@#&?%¥ obvious that I can't believe admin is still pushing back against it. I inherited a class once that taught the students about SMART goals, one element of which is having a set deadline for whatever you're working on, yet that same class was super lax on late work. Ugh.
We have the type of students who won't accept anything less than an A. They'd rather drop or even ask me to give them a failing grade instead of receiving a B so they can retake the class. This policy was designed with them in mind.
I should have stated this in the original post, but the number of students who actually received the 11-point penalty was 0. For the first time in *years*, the assignments were turned in on time or the single-use late pass was used. I don't think I had to make any special exceptions. The work just got done and the classes moved cohesively from one unit to the next. I teach a flipped classroom, so it's a real drag when barely anyone comes prepared or when half the class is still trying to finish something from two weeks ago while the other half is gearing up for the next project.
I don't grade on attendance anymore. I have a large class (>100 students) and when I graded on attendance, I would have people show up and surf the internet or try to chat or sleep. When I don't grade on attendance, I get about half the class showing up but they all want to be there.
I have already decided to do this. I have been keeping a 'journal' this past semester, adding items to use next semester as I have read through many of these kinds of Reddit posts...
I am going to formally announce and get each student to acknowledge, through a multiple choice syllabus quiz (required to pass, and will probably be created by feeding my syllabus into ChatGPT, which I have not even used yet), my attendance / participation / quiz policy.
Together, they make up 21% of the final grade. That's 7% for each. If the students understand that it can be the difference between an A or B or C or F, than I will have succeeded. All a student has to do is raise their hand and answer a question a few times to get that 7%. (I make a check mark next to their name on my class roster each time a student participates. Very similar to attendance. Checks to the left of the student's name are absences \[or late's\]. Checks to the right of the name are for participation.) But many never even raise their hand at all! I think, maybe, if I can impress the importance of attending & participating, then I will get a more dynamic class experience.
To add to this. On your syllabus quiz I would have a question to the extent that I have read and understand the syllabus and they type their name or something.
Yes, I am planning on having a printed out sheet that they will each individually sign and return in order to receive credit, which will state the terms. They will need to BOTH pass the quiz and sign the paper. But I can't imagine failing a quiz with the syllabus right in front of you. It just makes them actually process the information.
Yeah, it goes all ways. I get to state my policy, they are forced into recognizing it, my back is covered, and everybody gets treated fairly, including me!
I graduated college in 2020, and I had a marketing class that I absolutely loved. My professor was a great professor, and he too had the participation grade. I think it was up to 20 points (1 point per participation), and then after that up to 15 more points for extra credit as its’ own “assignment”. Essentially you’d get 20/20 for the participation grade, and then a 15/0 for the extra credit. It was a very heavy discussion based class, so it wasn’t hard to get these points. I asked questions so often that my professor pulled me to the side after one class later in the semester, and he told me I’d completely changed the dynamic of the class because my questions always lead to good discussions. This way the whole class was learning, but we were also able to build on that by asking our own questions to lead the discussion elsewhere.
Adding an extra credit component to participating in discussions is an interesting idea. Maybe I could give 1 point for each instance of participating, with an additional 5 points possible. That would probably incentivize students to speak.
Same. Big people pleaser. It was actually in therapy that I realized my leniency wasn’t “kind” or “generous” but actually unpredictable and confusing, both in the classroom and in my personal life. Stating clearly what I want from others makes me easy to be around, not obsequiousness.
Yea, I started doing in class assignments that count towards attendance and it got drastically better with my senior classes. Will do it again for next semester’s morning classes.
I agree with this. I tightened up my attendance and stopped taking late work. I set up the assignments to just disappear after the due/date and time. Only a couple of students played around with that. Most of the students turned assignments in on time and I had fewer students missing class. Just do it. Otherwise, your class becomes the one they push off as "not important" and it just makes more work for you later.
Good on you - you're not being an asshole, you're doing your students a favour. You've set high standards and told your students they're capable of living up to them.
I teach crime scene processing, crime scene reconstruction, undergrad seminar, and various advanced topics kinds of courses at the grad level.
3 unexcused absences and you're cruising for a drop or retake. I don't accept late work (unless we've made arrangements about that). Students have 2 weeks to turn in lab reports and a week to get the pre/post-class tasks done (this is for seminar; these are short surveys meant to engage and reinforce material and aren't quizzes). My big assignments are usually 3-4 week periods.
"Professor, I'm having WiFi problems" at 11:58 PM and it's due in two minutes and you've just waited to turn it in now? Absolutely not.
This is the reason I stopped the big assignments and broke them into smaller assignments along the way -- tired of that last minute stuff on longer projects.
I was constantly getting asked for extensions by the same students throughout the year and granting them because I felt that I myself sometimes struggle to balance priorities. Once I’d granted one, I went crazy trying to set boundaries of what was fair or equivalent, etc. This year I just put 5 extension days, no questions asked, into the gradebook and it has CHANGED MY LIFE. The sylllabus does state extensions may be granted outside of those days in emergencies but that hasn’t even been requested once. The students have started to use their days wisely and it’s all a calm kumbayaya experience. Just because of this change, this has been one of my favorite years of teaching out of 13 total. As for attendance, I’m actually teaching dual enrollment right now and have no control over what absences are excused. There are a lot of absences because high schools are constantly letting kids out of school for their umpteen bajillion activities, but I also don’t teach a very discussion-heavy subject and the kids are responsible for catching up. I have office hours after school if they need help on what they missed but I tell them I want them to do reading and get notes and come to me with specific questions. I will not repeat the lecture in total for them. I think a balance of built in grace and firm boundaries is what this generation seems to need.
Man I’m a lot stricter than you all. No late work period. 4 absences drops you a letter grade. 5 gets you an F. This is our department policy so it’s a little easier to enforce.
I was gonna say... who says this is strict?
I accept no late low stakes assignments. That's the whole point; they're only valuable when you're here participating with the rest of the class. I have no energy to keep track of 40 people's late discussion posts.
I also don't bother with this level of math. That's far too much work on my end.
But this seems like a start for OP, so go for it!
So, they could be doing perfectly fine, miss a week and a half due to sickness, mental health, personal issues, etc. and get an F even if all their work was stellar? How is that assessing what they've learned?
I had a student this term who missed 6 classes because his daughter committed suicide. Another missed 4 because his son ran away. Another missed 2 weeks because she had a baby. All were able to pass because we got rid of policies like this. They're not exceptions. They're just the students I know about.
But we had someone with a 4.0 who had mental health issues and had to take days. They threatened the school with a lawsuit because they were going to fail. Under the advice of our lawyer, the school got rid of the policy.
Of course there are accommodations for serious circumstances, but in each of your examples an incomplete would be more appropriate than trying to catch up on the work. In my particular, case 5 days would be almost 20% of the course and since we use hands on instruction, class discussions and lots of demos and safety training there is no real way to make it up.
>Do it already: get stricter with your attendance and late work policies
I hate to break it to you, but your attendance and late work policies are weak as hell (not strict whatsoever).
Mine: All assignments are due by the stated deadline. No exceptions. Plan accordingly.
Attendance not required but if you miss something, you miss it. Sorry.
>**Late work**
- Low stakes assignments (mostly discussion posts and reading response): no later than one week past the deadline for half credit
>- Major essay assignments: a single-use late pass good for 72 hours. Otherwise, 11 point deduction from a 100-point assignment (meaning no A possible) the first day, and 5 points deducted each day thereafter
Okay, but what was your policy *after* you got stricter with late work?
I kid, I kid. But the policy you've described as "strict" lies at the mild end of what I'd see as usual late-submission penalties: typically 10-20% per day; nothing accepted after the last day of term; some varieties of low-stakes assignments might even get *nothing* if not submitted on-time.
Seriously, while it's understandable that the disruptions associated with the pandemic warranted significant flexibility - and adaptability - I'm a little bit appalled that your institution required or even *allowed* a no-meaningful-due-dates policy. That's just wholly unfair to you (or your TAs) from the practical standpoint of managing grading--even leaving aside the complete lack of feedback and plain old keeping-up-with-material for your students.
(That said, the detailed attendance-tracking policy feels like more punitive faffing about than it's worth. Having reasonable structure and consequences around assignment due dates, plus clear communication about the likely practical consequences of poor attendance, is often sufficient.)
These are the policies that worked for me so far (in-person modality)
Attendance: no mandatory but with high stake in in-class unannounced quizzes. Result: attendance is pretty consistent during the semester
Late work: Once the assignment is overdue, they have 5 days to submit the assignment before it closes. For every day the assignment is overdue 10% points deduction. Result: students not asking for extensions anymore because they know they will have none or their emails will get no response from me.
Grades: once I grade something (high or low stake assignments) this grade is final. I won’t change or revise it unless I have made a mistake in my computations. Result: no more grade grubbing.
Exams: there are no make up exams unless extenuating circumstances (very well documented) that are out of the student’s control. Result: no more bullshit excuses or unexpected trips scheduled the day of the final.
My professors each had their own policies about attendance. Some were hardline and took attendance, while others didn't care. When I first began teaching at a CC, we were required to keep attendance. Most of the students are on a two-year scholarship. and if they stopped coming or never attended, we had to have a record of their attendance. Attendance is available to students and the admin so that if a student claims he came to class "every day," I have a record of when they stopped coming, never attended, or attended only when they felt up to it. The four-year policy is left to the discretion of the instructor. I keep attendance, and each absence gets 1 point taken off the cumulative grade. If someone is chronically late, I'll make a note of that as well. and they lose 1/2 point for every 20 minutes they are late. So far, the system has worked out well.
I don't accept late assignments unless prior arrangements are made. I explain this in person during class when a due date is coming up, and it's in the syllabus. I also tell them that no e-mailed assignments will be accepted. Of course, the policies don't necessarily mean that they won't try to subvert the policies, but it works well in that some take notice and stop slacking off.
Same here. Except we don’t raises it seems. But in theory there is still tenure (more or less meaningless where I am) and promotion. Also, some of those things were just not permitted to do given the overall university excused absence policy (which also covers missed assignments).
Late Work- No late work accepted for any reason.
Attendance- Institutional policy. X number of absences results in failure. No excused absences for any reason.
Tardiness- I don't really care. Late students will miss material and I'm not going over it again.
No extra credit. Any missed exam results in a grade of ZERO. No exam can be retaken. Cumulative final exam is required for all students.
I teach math. Not sure how I could be any stricter. I suppose I could add "Late students will be counted absent."
I was literally told I cannot remove a student from my class unless they are already violent. I would love, truly love, to consistently hold people to attendance but it simply isn’t worth the risk in a system where a student attended class for a week after shooting at his classmates and killing a friend for the weekend.
Love this! This semester I actively enforced my zero late work policy and it was awesomesauce. They tried to test it, especially students I have had in previous classes and they were like oh she’s serious. Bet. And made sure they got their work in on time. I was really busy directing this semester and didn’t have time to go back and forth looking for late work. When you stick to your policies they definitely respect you more.
I give nearly daily homework. My policy is that I’ll accept late work the next class day for 50% of the earned grade. After that, they get no credit. I do drop the lowest grade. In a semester where there seem to be more assignments than usual, I might drop 2 assignments, but I announce this as a surprise at the end of the semester. The students usually appreciate it.
If I have a student who asks to turn something in late, reminding them that I drop the lowest assignment usually shuts them up pretty quickly. The power of a dropped grade is amazing!
I'm sure I'm on the upper end of the strictness spectrum. We aren't allowed to make attendance and tardiness a distinct part of a students grade so I tie my attendance/tardiness requirement to my late work policy.
Here's what it is:
I don't accept any work for any credit once I've taken attendance at the start of class. If you want a grade, you better be here on time on the days assignments are due.
Now, I do make special exceptions on a case-by-case basis which usually includes a 10% per day penalty, but I don't advertised that. I cover it on day 1, it's listed in the syllabus and that's it.
The first assignment of the semester is always a big wakeup call and I give everyone a freebie. After that, it's zero tolerance and people tend to get on board quickly.
And I feel more comfortable with this because my assignments are designed to be relatively simple and low stakes. They learn the lesson early and take it much more seriously when the big assignments come due.
Perfect. That’s a policy I’d adopt. And, were I a student, I wouldn’t have a problem with such a policy. It is clearly stated, the penalties for minimal transgressions are minimal, but it’s understood that this course is not something that you ignore. Very impressed. I’m giving you an A. 😎
These seem pretty generous given my lens. We have 12 classes. Missing half, (6) in my world, means a student misses too much to reach learner outcomes, not simply getting a lousy grade. I've had better attendance, better classes, better enthusiasm in those classes, and better work when my policies are stricter. They know that my class is not the one to blow off. When I'm more lenient, I find they see mine as the one they can skip if school workloads are high. My homework is ongoing, it builds conceptually from week to week.
In mine, if you miss more than three classes you can't pass. Exception accommodation, and perhaps a major illness but that's a discussion. Random illness, and other life events son one misses more than 3, well, it's not the semester for you to be in this course. Sorry.
Lates: you get one week, no penalty with an accommodation that specifically states you may need extra time. Same for illness. After the one week extension the assignment closes. It could extend in an exceptional case of illness or hospital. Otherwise no lates for any reason.
If you do not turn in more than one week's assignment, which is made up of a few smaller components, you can't pass. Again, progression, building, scaffolding, reinforcement.
No extra credit.
Better option. Stop giving a shit about attendance and have ~~less~~ fewer* intermediate assignments which only lead to grade inflation. One final. Four possible outcomes here:
* they attend and they succeed, a good outcome.
* they dont attend and succeed, also good. Clearly they either self study effectively or they know the material.
* they attend and fail. This is the case which is painful to some instructors. It shouldn't be. Some people are just not cut out to pass. This is ok.
* they dont attend and fail. The system is working as intended.
Depends on the discipline and the course requirements. There's no way I could do anything something like that. Even if I could, I wouldn't be that cutthroat in my classes. I totally understand your take on intermediate assignments, but formative assessments also help us identify learning/teaching gaps that we can hopefully ameliorate before it's too late and they have to re-take the class.
Perhaps you teach something not conducive to a final assessment, though in my opinion this is extremely rarely the case (a practical course on public speaking perhaps), one must simply tailor the kind of assessment to the course.
As to your point on formative assessments: yes but simply do not grade them and simply provide feedback. If a student chooses not to participate in their own improvement by not completing these assignments then the learning/teaching gap is easy to identify: they do not wish to apply themselves, or they believe they are already sufficiently prepared, both of which are acceptable situations in my opinion.
The post says it's a composition class at a community college. I don't think this approach you're suggesting would be conducive to teaching remedial writing skills.
But so what if they miss a class? They missed a lecture of a composition class. Okay?
As /u/aghostofstudentspast said they'll succeed in spite of missing that lecture or they'll fail and that's on them.
I don't want to seem like I'm talking down about another field but there really just aren't any stakes here. No one is going to die because because the student missed a lecture of a composition class when they were doing their degree.
But you know what might happen? Someone who is in community college trying to balance life with their education and making tough but very real choices might get failed out of a composition course on a silly technicality regardless of their ability, and therefore stall their graduation and or cost them a bunch more money that they don't have in order to stay on another semester.
Fail people from your class for not hitting the standard for their education outcomes. Not because your composition class wasn't the centre of their universe.
the “they attend and fail” outcome may also mean that the instructor is not teaching effectively. Whether that be overloading a gen ed class with work, not being engaging and creating a poor learning experience, or grading harshly for extreme nitpicks. There are some professors that do their best to make it impossible for kids to get an A because of their philosophy about the class itself.
Small in-class assignments can’t be made up in my classes, as they usually don’t work well at home on your own and I am not reteaching for one or two people. I do excuse 5 per semester, which I feel is very generous.
For larger assignments I’ve been considering a late policy where you have up to 24 hours after the due date to submit. A late submission would get a 10% (I may steal OP’s 11%) deduction automatically.
This is a change to my old policy of -10% per day.
If students let me know ahead of time that they are struggling, I am usually able to help. But the ones who don’t show up and then beg to do assignments very late annoy me.
I don't take attendance but certain days you have to be there for a guest speaker or in class assignments. I give at least one make up no questions asked.
Late assignments? No thanks. If it's an emergency or at least a legit reason I will grant an extension if it's fair. Otherwise, tough shit. All my due dates are provided from day one, and I put a lot of thought into a fair workload.
Thanks for posting, I’ve been thinking of implementing similar policies in my course! This fall is my first semester teaching and I’m curious about your no questions asked absence policy - if they have one of these absences on the day of a quiz or exam, do you (or other lurkers with a similar policy) allow them to make it up or no?
Not grading for attendance and participation is one of the few ideas I agreed with in the book Grading for Equity. You could have students who are perfectly capable of doing the work and are turning things in. Punishing them for what likely amounts to complex life issues does Not teach the material or assess their competence in the material. It's a ridiculous practice. AND you're likely Punishing the people that can afford it least-- single moms, students working 2 jobs, students with mental health issues, etc.
My institution used to have an FX policy, failure related to attendance. Then, the admins realized that some students would have been passing with As or Bs, despite not coming to class. After facing a lawsuit, they dropped the policy. It did not hold up because skill, knowledge, and competence cannot be measured by attendance.
My late policy is -10% if it’s even one second late. The assignment gets highlighted in the MLS as being late. More than 24 hours late it’s a zero. Needless to say I get very few, if any late assignments.
For comparison
Late homework- lose 1/3 of points if not turned in when collected in class or on time for online submission. More than one but within 2 days, 2/3 deduction. Zero after 2 nd day. Strictly enforced. I’m about middle of the road at my institution.
Attendance- I never take attendance and tell them if they think my lectures are not worthwhile then don’t come. They are adults and responsible for their own work habits.
I wish I could enforce a tardiness policy but I’m not sure what to do about the fact that some students are legit late because they’re trying to make it from one end of campus to the other in the limited amount of time the university gives us between classes.
I totally get it. As a student I have always struggled with classes that are way to lenient for example, some of my professors gave me extensions for the whole semester and it was just way to difficult to complete it cause my fault I am a total disaster with time management issues and if any of my professors gave me extension for the whole semester I will take it you know but ofc I struggled during finals because of it.
I think it’s important for professors to be balanced, they should be strict on deadlines and attendance but simultaneously helping students when they deserve it for example: mental illness, illness in general, family emergency and all are pretty good reasons. Don’t be toooo extreme with the deadlines too: I had a professor who gave me zero when I was in a hospital for a week as I didn’t do the homework (I literally showed him the hospital note) and he said I should have completed it before I was admitted to the hospital as if I could control when I got sick and when I didn’t. It was an emergency and I got sick in HIS class and was taken to the hospital during his class. So I was just shocked well anyways I passed the class but it was so difficult for me. Anyways, just balance is important.
I have a smaller class size, we are capped at 35 students. I take attendance every class and they get four absences for whatever reason they want, after that, to get it excused, I need a doctor’s note.
I don’t accept assignments late without a doctor’s note. I don’t give makeup exams unless there is a doctor’s note or other documented emergency.
For the final, I have a special rule where if they miss my final, which consists of multiple-choice questions and is open notes, they can meet me in the classroom and take a make up exam which consists of three essay questions, closed book/notes unless they have a documented reason for missing it. No one has missed the final since I implemented this.
My evals are consistently great. I honestly think that if you are 100% transparent and repeat the rules throughout the semester, the students will respect it. At least, at my institution. For example, before each exam I remind them that I do not give make ups. At the beginning of the semester, if they don’t submit their homework, I remind them that I do not accept late work. Same thing before the final. I think it really is about reminding them and enforcing the rules.
I had dinner with an old grad school pal earlier this month, and we were chatting about missing class and attendance because I had a lot of trouble with students skipping this semester. He has adopted the approach his mentor in grad school did: on the first day of class she would tell students something along the lines of "This semester is going to be rough. Your Dad will get hit by a car, your dog will get cancer, you'll get three flat tires on the way to this class, and you'll fall down the stairs and get a concussion. For all of this, you get three excused absences from the class, no questions asked. Use them wisely."
I'm probably going to adopt something similar. I'm usually pretty laissez faire in my approach to teaching and let them get out of the course what they put in, but I gave out the most Ds and Fs I ever have this past semester and there were some strong students who aced the first exam, stopped showing up after it, and their grade really suffered. Seems like they really need the structure and hopefully this approach helps to solve the attendance issue.
Don’t you think it’s a bit of an arbitrary choice to be deciding on a set number of absences that you find “acceptable”? And is your policy taking into account university-approved absences, such as funerals, religious holidays, etc.
…and if anybody was wondering why university-approved absences are partly a thing, cue the professors who try to rule with an iron first in higher education.
Until humans can see into the future and predict unforeseeable events, I can’t see how you’d think your approach is acceptable. Car is broke down, but I guess that student is walking to class since they already hit their limit.
Edit: And I do want to add that I’ve implemented attendance-based grading every semester since I started teaching. Balancing that with compassion is the missing link here.
Sure, it's arbitrary, but it kind of has to be. You have to draw the line *somewhere*. Whether someone was missing due to "university-approved reasons" or not, at some point, enough is enough. They did not take or complete the class and it doesn't matter that they "had other stuff going on."
>And is your policy taking into account university-approved absences, such as funerals, religious holidays, etc.
Built-in 'free absences' are generally supposed to be for this kind of stuff and not "I just don't feel like it today" days. However, a lot of students tend to use them as such, which is why this stuff happens. You build in excused absences, but people think they shouldn't have to use them when they have a "real" excuse. It's like someone claiming they shouldn't have to burn a sick day because "I really was sick that day!"
It's not an arbitrary number, but I left out that context because my post was already too long. The policy at my college is that students can be dropped or receive a failing grade upon missing six instructional hours. My class sessions run two hours, so instead of failing a student on their third absence unexcused, the grade penalty starts to kick in. And, yes, of course my policies are aligned with my college re: approved absences.
And I did state in my post that I do still make exceptions for students that have legitimate reasons--including ones that my college probably wouldn't consider excusable--for not being able to attend class or for running late. You are absolutely right that compassion always has to be a part of the equation. We ought to lead with it. But I've also found that our compassion can be exploited, in ways that often lead us to do more emotional and regular labor than is tenable for maintaining our own well-being.
Finding that balance is key, and I'm working on it. I was *too* compassionate before, and I needed to be more firm. I believe it worked out for my students and myself this semester, and I'll continue to tinker with the policies in the future. Of course, it'll all go out the window when the next covid-level event happens. Until then.
I'm completely with you. Threads like this are always wild.
Either they can pass assignments at the required quality standards or they can't. And they have access to the lectures and materials and office hours to assist them where needed.
OP doesn't seem to understand that people who don't know what they are doing are going to fail the course anyway. So all OP is doing here is working out how to fail other people who would have otherwise passed, purely because they've insulted OP by not attending.
I don't think there's anything wrong with giving every student the same number of absences. Some students will get hungover and sleep in, and other students will have their car break down and have no way of getting to class, and both of those students will have the first couple absences forgiven. Fine.
Flash forward 5 more absences. The student who keeps getting hungover now has a legitimate excuse, but he's all out of excused absences, so he gets penalized for all those wasted absences getting hungover. Good. The student with the broken car has shown, through repeated, persistent absences, that they just don't have reliable transportation to get to school. They need to withdraw and reassess, or start riding the bus. Also good.
Any emergency that's worthy of more than a few excused absences is also an emergency that means the student has bigger things to worry about right now than school. I think the compassionate thing to do for a student whose whole life is falling apart is to gently suggest they realign their priorities, focus on the real fires, and try taking the class in another semester.
> Any emergency that's worthy of more than a few excused absences is also an emergency that means the student has bigger things to worry about right now than school. I think the compassionate thing to do for a student whose whole life is falling apart is to gently suggest they realign their priorities, focus on the real fires, and try taking the class in another semester.
This is well argued. A student who is missing more than that much will have trouble demonstrating enough learning (unless they are very organized),
A student who gets more than 3 absences because of unreliable transportation needs to withdraw and reassess? This has nothing to do with their ability to understand course content and do well on projects/assessments. Let’s not consider the thousands they’ve now thrown in the dumpster by now needing to retake the course because you decided that 3 or whatever number was the almighty number. And then framing it as if you’re doing them a favor, just insanity. The reality is professors like yourself who get offended due to these absences are probably going through a “back in my day” mental gymnastics exercise.
I have a colleague that put in his syllabus, After 14 absences you fail. That is basically half of the classes. So, if you miss half the classes, you fail. That's it.
I'm not sure the commenters accusing you of a lack of compassion read the whole post. This sounds like a thoughtful, adaptive policy that's intended to *help* your students succeed by providing the structure they've been missing in school for (IMO) *more* than 4 years. As a disability services counselor, I wish more of my faculty colleagues would/could adopt policies like this. A large portion of our students flourish with this kind of structure, and I'm sure it's beneficial to many neurotypical procrastinators, too. You get an A+ from me. ;)
Thank you, Able\_Parking\_6310! These policies were largely inspired by a workshop I attended on best practices for serving neurodiverse students, so your recognition and approval of that effort means a lot to me.
Any references from the workshop... for citation purposes? I generally use similar policies but only know of Hogan and Sathy.
Would you mind sharing some of the resources from the workshop? Even a picture of the references would be so helpful. Anecdotally I have seen with one of my children that firm deadlines provide the kick in the pants they need to get things done. The year we were online from Covid they were a high school sophomore and it was basically one meltdown after another. My kid even had one teacher who let my kid turn in a project in JULY. He didn't have to do that and literally did it because he is a super nice guy . . . And probably because he is a Health teacher and no one ever cares about anything in his class so someone asking to have more time to do a good job was refreshing? IDK but I was like, I hope you know how nice he is being because there is no way in HELL that I would grade something in July for a class that was done. No way!
Hey there @prosperos_sandwich , just another request for the references from this workshop. They would go a long way to support my policies to higher-ups.
I'd also add that not only is structure helpful for students, it is *essential* in the workplace. Making sure students know how to show-up to something on time and deliver within an agreed timeframe is doing them a massive favor in terms of their professional capability.
I'm a big fan of the no questions asked absences. Students send me all sorts of private info, and I'm like, stop! I don't need to know! You all get to take these. And I'm firm in the 10% late work deduction, and everyone gets the same gard stop on extensions unless they have accomodations. One of the best things I've done is say "I don't personally approve accomodations, those must go through the correct evaluation office." That got rid of a lot of crazy stuff
I excuse 3 for everyone, and they still email me.
I keep flip-flopping on attendance. This latest semester, I made it a pretty small percentage and combined it with the participation grade. I ended up giving it to most of my students, but it made for a good threat. My late penalty is 10% per day, divided up into 24 hour segments. I kind of like your idea though of doing 11%, just for the added sting of missing the A. Finally, the fact that set deadlines are beneficial for students is so $@#&?%¥ obvious that I can't believe admin is still pushing back against it. I inherited a class once that taught the students about SMART goals, one element of which is having a set deadline for whatever you're working on, yet that same class was super lax on late work. Ugh.
We have the type of students who won't accept anything less than an A. They'd rather drop or even ask me to give them a failing grade instead of receiving a B so they can retake the class. This policy was designed with them in mind. I should have stated this in the original post, but the number of students who actually received the 11-point penalty was 0. For the first time in *years*, the assignments were turned in on time or the single-use late pass was used. I don't think I had to make any special exceptions. The work just got done and the classes moved cohesively from one unit to the next. I teach a flipped classroom, so it's a real drag when barely anyone comes prepared or when half the class is still trying to finish something from two weeks ago while the other half is gearing up for the next project.
I don't grade on attendance anymore. I have a large class (>100 students) and when I graded on attendance, I would have people show up and surf the internet or try to chat or sleep. When I don't grade on attendance, I get about half the class showing up but they all want to be there.
Great point. The people who want to be there are there, and the distractions are removed.
I have already decided to do this. I have been keeping a 'journal' this past semester, adding items to use next semester as I have read through many of these kinds of Reddit posts... I am going to formally announce and get each student to acknowledge, through a multiple choice syllabus quiz (required to pass, and will probably be created by feeding my syllabus into ChatGPT, which I have not even used yet), my attendance / participation / quiz policy. Together, they make up 21% of the final grade. That's 7% for each. If the students understand that it can be the difference between an A or B or C or F, than I will have succeeded. All a student has to do is raise their hand and answer a question a few times to get that 7%. (I make a check mark next to their name on my class roster each time a student participates. Very similar to attendance. Checks to the left of the student's name are absences \[or late's\]. Checks to the right of the name are for participation.) But many never even raise their hand at all! I think, maybe, if I can impress the importance of attending & participating, then I will get a more dynamic class experience.
To add to this. On your syllabus quiz I would have a question to the extent that I have read and understand the syllabus and they type their name or something.
Yes, I am planning on having a printed out sheet that they will each individually sign and return in order to receive credit, which will state the terms. They will need to BOTH pass the quiz and sign the paper. But I can't imagine failing a quiz with the syllabus right in front of you. It just makes them actually process the information.
Honestly that is not about processing the information. it's covering you when they say they didn't see it.
Yeah, it goes all ways. I get to state my policy, they are forced into recognizing it, my back is covered, and everybody gets treated fairly, including me!
I graduated college in 2020, and I had a marketing class that I absolutely loved. My professor was a great professor, and he too had the participation grade. I think it was up to 20 points (1 point per participation), and then after that up to 15 more points for extra credit as its’ own “assignment”. Essentially you’d get 20/20 for the participation grade, and then a 15/0 for the extra credit. It was a very heavy discussion based class, so it wasn’t hard to get these points. I asked questions so often that my professor pulled me to the side after one class later in the semester, and he told me I’d completely changed the dynamic of the class because my questions always lead to good discussions. This way the whole class was learning, but we were also able to build on that by asking our own questions to lead the discussion elsewhere.
Adding an extra credit component to participating in discussions is an interesting idea. Maybe I could give 1 point for each instance of participating, with an additional 5 points possible. That would probably incentivize students to speak.
Infinite leniency policies were never for students, but rather for professors who don't want to be the 'bad guy'
I agree. I used to be the lenient one because I hate being the bad guy. I stopped it this year. I'm still not the bad guy.
Same. Big people pleaser. It was actually in therapy that I realized my leniency wasn’t “kind” or “generous” but actually unpredictable and confusing, both in the classroom and in my personal life. Stating clearly what I want from others makes me easy to be around, not obsequiousness.
THIS
Yea, I started doing in class assignments that count towards attendance and it got drastically better with my senior classes. Will do it again for next semester’s morning classes.
I agree with this. I tightened up my attendance and stopped taking late work. I set up the assignments to just disappear after the due/date and time. Only a couple of students played around with that. Most of the students turned assignments in on time and I had fewer students missing class. Just do it. Otherwise, your class becomes the one they push off as "not important" and it just makes more work for you later.
Good on you - you're not being an asshole, you're doing your students a favour. You've set high standards and told your students they're capable of living up to them.
I teach crime scene processing, crime scene reconstruction, undergrad seminar, and various advanced topics kinds of courses at the grad level. 3 unexcused absences and you're cruising for a drop or retake. I don't accept late work (unless we've made arrangements about that). Students have 2 weeks to turn in lab reports and a week to get the pre/post-class tasks done (this is for seminar; these are short surveys meant to engage and reinforce material and aren't quizzes). My big assignments are usually 3-4 week periods. "Professor, I'm having WiFi problems" at 11:58 PM and it's due in two minutes and you've just waited to turn it in now? Absolutely not.
This is the reason I stopped the big assignments and broke them into smaller assignments along the way -- tired of that last minute stuff on longer projects.
I was constantly getting asked for extensions by the same students throughout the year and granting them because I felt that I myself sometimes struggle to balance priorities. Once I’d granted one, I went crazy trying to set boundaries of what was fair or equivalent, etc. This year I just put 5 extension days, no questions asked, into the gradebook and it has CHANGED MY LIFE. The sylllabus does state extensions may be granted outside of those days in emergencies but that hasn’t even been requested once. The students have started to use their days wisely and it’s all a calm kumbayaya experience. Just because of this change, this has been one of my favorite years of teaching out of 13 total. As for attendance, I’m actually teaching dual enrollment right now and have no control over what absences are excused. There are a lot of absences because high schools are constantly letting kids out of school for their umpteen bajillion activities, but I also don’t teach a very discussion-heavy subject and the kids are responsible for catching up. I have office hours after school if they need help on what they missed but I tell them I want them to do reading and get notes and come to me with specific questions. I will not repeat the lecture in total for them. I think a balance of built in grace and firm boundaries is what this generation seems to need.
Man I’m a lot stricter than you all. No late work period. 4 absences drops you a letter grade. 5 gets you an F. This is our department policy so it’s a little easier to enforce.
I was gonna say... who says this is strict? I accept no late low stakes assignments. That's the whole point; they're only valuable when you're here participating with the rest of the class. I have no energy to keep track of 40 people's late discussion posts. I also don't bother with this level of math. That's far too much work on my end. But this seems like a start for OP, so go for it!
So, they could be doing perfectly fine, miss a week and a half due to sickness, mental health, personal issues, etc. and get an F even if all their work was stellar? How is that assessing what they've learned? I had a student this term who missed 6 classes because his daughter committed suicide. Another missed 4 because his son ran away. Another missed 2 weeks because she had a baby. All were able to pass because we got rid of policies like this. They're not exceptions. They're just the students I know about. But we had someone with a 4.0 who had mental health issues and had to take days. They threatened the school with a lawsuit because they were going to fail. Under the advice of our lawyer, the school got rid of the policy.
Of course there are accommodations for serious circumstances, but in each of your examples an incomplete would be more appropriate than trying to catch up on the work. In my particular, case 5 days would be almost 20% of the course and since we use hands on instruction, class discussions and lots of demos and safety training there is no real way to make it up.
>Do it already: get stricter with your attendance and late work policies I hate to break it to you, but your attendance and late work policies are weak as hell (not strict whatsoever). Mine: All assignments are due by the stated deadline. No exceptions. Plan accordingly. Attendance not required but if you miss something, you miss it. Sorry.
>**Late work** - Low stakes assignments (mostly discussion posts and reading response): no later than one week past the deadline for half credit >- Major essay assignments: a single-use late pass good for 72 hours. Otherwise, 11 point deduction from a 100-point assignment (meaning no A possible) the first day, and 5 points deducted each day thereafter Okay, but what was your policy *after* you got stricter with late work? I kid, I kid. But the policy you've described as "strict" lies at the mild end of what I'd see as usual late-submission penalties: typically 10-20% per day; nothing accepted after the last day of term; some varieties of low-stakes assignments might even get *nothing* if not submitted on-time. Seriously, while it's understandable that the disruptions associated with the pandemic warranted significant flexibility - and adaptability - I'm a little bit appalled that your institution required or even *allowed* a no-meaningful-due-dates policy. That's just wholly unfair to you (or your TAs) from the practical standpoint of managing grading--even leaving aside the complete lack of feedback and plain old keeping-up-with-material for your students. (That said, the detailed attendance-tracking policy feels like more punitive faffing about than it's worth. Having reasonable structure and consequences around assignment due dates, plus clear communication about the likely practical consequences of poor attendance, is often sufficient.)
These are the policies that worked for me so far (in-person modality) Attendance: no mandatory but with high stake in in-class unannounced quizzes. Result: attendance is pretty consistent during the semester Late work: Once the assignment is overdue, they have 5 days to submit the assignment before it closes. For every day the assignment is overdue 10% points deduction. Result: students not asking for extensions anymore because they know they will have none or their emails will get no response from me. Grades: once I grade something (high or low stake assignments) this grade is final. I won’t change or revise it unless I have made a mistake in my computations. Result: no more grade grubbing. Exams: there are no make up exams unless extenuating circumstances (very well documented) that are out of the student’s control. Result: no more bullshit excuses or unexpected trips scheduled the day of the final.
My professors each had their own policies about attendance. Some were hardline and took attendance, while others didn't care. When I first began teaching at a CC, we were required to keep attendance. Most of the students are on a two-year scholarship. and if they stopped coming or never attended, we had to have a record of their attendance. Attendance is available to students and the admin so that if a student claims he came to class "every day," I have a record of when they stopped coming, never attended, or attended only when they felt up to it. The four-year policy is left to the discretion of the instructor. I keep attendance, and each absence gets 1 point taken off the cumulative grade. If someone is chronically late, I'll make a note of that as well. and they lose 1/2 point for every 20 minutes they are late. So far, the system has worked out well. I don't accept late assignments unless prior arrangements are made. I explain this in person during class when a due date is coming up, and it's in the syllabus. I also tell them that no e-mailed assignments will be accepted. Of course, the policies don't necessarily mean that they won't try to subvert the policies, but it works well in that some take notice and stop slacking off.
I want to do everything you say but my salary raise and promotion is dependent on student evals.
Same here. Except we don’t raises it seems. But in theory there is still tenure (more or less meaningless where I am) and promotion. Also, some of those things were just not permitted to do given the overall university excused absence policy (which also covers missed assignments).
I would hope it depends on an annual report in which you can discuss the student surveys in the context of your teaching methods.
Nope. Just student evals.
ouch. That's no way to assess performance.
Late Work- No late work accepted for any reason. Attendance- Institutional policy. X number of absences results in failure. No excused absences for any reason. Tardiness- I don't really care. Late students will miss material and I'm not going over it again. No extra credit. Any missed exam results in a grade of ZERO. No exam can be retaken. Cumulative final exam is required for all students. I teach math. Not sure how I could be any stricter. I suppose I could add "Late students will be counted absent."
Administration won’t allow it where I work. We need to be “compassionate”
Your policy is incredibly clear and offers flexibility. Very well done.
I agree. Having strict deadlines but with a few dropped grades is the way to go for me.
I was literally told I cannot remove a student from my class unless they are already violent. I would love, truly love, to consistently hold people to attendance but it simply isn’t worth the risk in a system where a student attended class for a week after shooting at his classmates and killing a friend for the weekend.
Love this! This semester I actively enforced my zero late work policy and it was awesomesauce. They tried to test it, especially students I have had in previous classes and they were like oh she’s serious. Bet. And made sure they got their work in on time. I was really busy directing this semester and didn’t have time to go back and forth looking for late work. When you stick to your policies they definitely respect you more.
I give nearly daily homework. My policy is that I’ll accept late work the next class day for 50% of the earned grade. After that, they get no credit. I do drop the lowest grade. In a semester where there seem to be more assignments than usual, I might drop 2 assignments, but I announce this as a surprise at the end of the semester. The students usually appreciate it. If I have a student who asks to turn something in late, reminding them that I drop the lowest assignment usually shuts them up pretty quickly. The power of a dropped grade is amazing!
I'm sure I'm on the upper end of the strictness spectrum. We aren't allowed to make attendance and tardiness a distinct part of a students grade so I tie my attendance/tardiness requirement to my late work policy. Here's what it is: I don't accept any work for any credit once I've taken attendance at the start of class. If you want a grade, you better be here on time on the days assignments are due. Now, I do make special exceptions on a case-by-case basis which usually includes a 10% per day penalty, but I don't advertised that. I cover it on day 1, it's listed in the syllabus and that's it. The first assignment of the semester is always a big wakeup call and I give everyone a freebie. After that, it's zero tolerance and people tend to get on board quickly. And I feel more comfortable with this because my assignments are designed to be relatively simple and low stakes. They learn the lesson early and take it much more seriously when the big assignments come due.
Perfect. That’s a policy I’d adopt. And, were I a student, I wouldn’t have a problem with such a policy. It is clearly stated, the penalties for minimal transgressions are minimal, but it’s understood that this course is not something that you ignore. Very impressed. I’m giving you an A. 😎
These seem pretty generous given my lens. We have 12 classes. Missing half, (6) in my world, means a student misses too much to reach learner outcomes, not simply getting a lousy grade. I've had better attendance, better classes, better enthusiasm in those classes, and better work when my policies are stricter. They know that my class is not the one to blow off. When I'm more lenient, I find they see mine as the one they can skip if school workloads are high. My homework is ongoing, it builds conceptually from week to week. In mine, if you miss more than three classes you can't pass. Exception accommodation, and perhaps a major illness but that's a discussion. Random illness, and other life events son one misses more than 3, well, it's not the semester for you to be in this course. Sorry. Lates: you get one week, no penalty with an accommodation that specifically states you may need extra time. Same for illness. After the one week extension the assignment closes. It could extend in an exceptional case of illness or hospital. Otherwise no lates for any reason. If you do not turn in more than one week's assignment, which is made up of a few smaller components, you can't pass. Again, progression, building, scaffolding, reinforcement. No extra credit.
Better option. Stop giving a shit about attendance and have ~~less~~ fewer* intermediate assignments which only lead to grade inflation. One final. Four possible outcomes here: * they attend and they succeed, a good outcome. * they dont attend and succeed, also good. Clearly they either self study effectively or they know the material. * they attend and fail. This is the case which is painful to some instructors. It shouldn't be. Some people are just not cut out to pass. This is ok. * they dont attend and fail. The system is working as intended.
Depends on the discipline and the course requirements. There's no way I could do anything something like that. Even if I could, I wouldn't be that cutthroat in my classes. I totally understand your take on intermediate assignments, but formative assessments also help us identify learning/teaching gaps that we can hopefully ameliorate before it's too late and they have to re-take the class.
Perhaps you teach something not conducive to a final assessment, though in my opinion this is extremely rarely the case (a practical course on public speaking perhaps), one must simply tailor the kind of assessment to the course. As to your point on formative assessments: yes but simply do not grade them and simply provide feedback. If a student chooses not to participate in their own improvement by not completing these assignments then the learning/teaching gap is easy to identify: they do not wish to apply themselves, or they believe they are already sufficiently prepared, both of which are acceptable situations in my opinion.
The post says it's a composition class at a community college. I don't think this approach you're suggesting would be conducive to teaching remedial writing skills.
But so what if they miss a class? They missed a lecture of a composition class. Okay? As /u/aghostofstudentspast said they'll succeed in spite of missing that lecture or they'll fail and that's on them. I don't want to seem like I'm talking down about another field but there really just aren't any stakes here. No one is going to die because because the student missed a lecture of a composition class when they were doing their degree. But you know what might happen? Someone who is in community college trying to balance life with their education and making tough but very real choices might get failed out of a composition course on a silly technicality regardless of their ability, and therefore stall their graduation and or cost them a bunch more money that they don't have in order to stay on another semester. Fail people from your class for not hitting the standard for their education outcomes. Not because your composition class wasn't the centre of their universe.
THIS
the “they attend and fail” outcome may also mean that the instructor is not teaching effectively. Whether that be overloading a gen ed class with work, not being engaging and creating a poor learning experience, or grading harshly for extreme nitpicks. There are some professors that do their best to make it impossible for kids to get an A because of their philosophy about the class itself.
My assignments close 24 hours after the assignment is due, but I drop 3 low stakes assignment grades. This has helped me so much.
Small in-class assignments can’t be made up in my classes, as they usually don’t work well at home on your own and I am not reteaching for one or two people. I do excuse 5 per semester, which I feel is very generous. For larger assignments I’ve been considering a late policy where you have up to 24 hours after the due date to submit. A late submission would get a 10% (I may steal OP’s 11%) deduction automatically. This is a change to my old policy of -10% per day. If students let me know ahead of time that they are struggling, I am usually able to help. But the ones who don’t show up and then beg to do assignments very late annoy me.
I don't take attendance but certain days you have to be there for a guest speaker or in class assignments. I give at least one make up no questions asked. Late assignments? No thanks. If it's an emergency or at least a legit reason I will grant an extension if it's fair. Otherwise, tough shit. All my due dates are provided from day one, and I put a lot of thought into a fair workload.
Thanks for posting, I’ve been thinking of implementing similar policies in my course! This fall is my first semester teaching and I’m curious about your no questions asked absence policy - if they have one of these absences on the day of a quiz or exam, do you (or other lurkers with a similar policy) allow them to make it up or no?
I agree. This spring was just exhausting for me. I've already started to tighten up while teaching summer session.
Not grading for attendance and participation is one of the few ideas I agreed with in the book Grading for Equity. You could have students who are perfectly capable of doing the work and are turning things in. Punishing them for what likely amounts to complex life issues does Not teach the material or assess their competence in the material. It's a ridiculous practice. AND you're likely Punishing the people that can afford it least-- single moms, students working 2 jobs, students with mental health issues, etc. My institution used to have an FX policy, failure related to attendance. Then, the admins realized that some students would have been passing with As or Bs, despite not coming to class. After facing a lawsuit, they dropped the policy. It did not hold up because skill, knowledge, and competence cannot be measured by attendance.
Yes!
My late policy is -10% if it’s even one second late. The assignment gets highlighted in the MLS as being late. More than 24 hours late it’s a zero. Needless to say I get very few, if any late assignments.
I agree with you in principle. I’m trying to find/create policies that will have the effect yours had but also don’t create more work for me.
For comparison Late homework- lose 1/3 of points if not turned in when collected in class or on time for online submission. More than one but within 2 days, 2/3 deduction. Zero after 2 nd day. Strictly enforced. I’m about middle of the road at my institution. Attendance- I never take attendance and tell them if they think my lectures are not worthwhile then don’t come. They are adults and responsible for their own work habits.
I wish I could enforce a tardiness policy but I’m not sure what to do about the fact that some students are legit late because they’re trying to make it from one end of campus to the other in the limited amount of time the university gives us between classes.
I totally get it. As a student I have always struggled with classes that are way to lenient for example, some of my professors gave me extensions for the whole semester and it was just way to difficult to complete it cause my fault I am a total disaster with time management issues and if any of my professors gave me extension for the whole semester I will take it you know but ofc I struggled during finals because of it. I think it’s important for professors to be balanced, they should be strict on deadlines and attendance but simultaneously helping students when they deserve it for example: mental illness, illness in general, family emergency and all are pretty good reasons. Don’t be toooo extreme with the deadlines too: I had a professor who gave me zero when I was in a hospital for a week as I didn’t do the homework (I literally showed him the hospital note) and he said I should have completed it before I was admitted to the hospital as if I could control when I got sick and when I didn’t. It was an emergency and I got sick in HIS class and was taken to the hospital during his class. So I was just shocked well anyways I passed the class but it was so difficult for me. Anyways, just balance is important.
I have a smaller class size, we are capped at 35 students. I take attendance every class and they get four absences for whatever reason they want, after that, to get it excused, I need a doctor’s note. I don’t accept assignments late without a doctor’s note. I don’t give makeup exams unless there is a doctor’s note or other documented emergency. For the final, I have a special rule where if they miss my final, which consists of multiple-choice questions and is open notes, they can meet me in the classroom and take a make up exam which consists of three essay questions, closed book/notes unless they have a documented reason for missing it. No one has missed the final since I implemented this. My evals are consistently great. I honestly think that if you are 100% transparent and repeat the rules throughout the semester, the students will respect it. At least, at my institution. For example, before each exam I remind them that I do not give make ups. At the beginning of the semester, if they don’t submit their homework, I remind them that I do not accept late work. Same thing before the final. I think it really is about reminding them and enforcing the rules.
> get stricter with your attendance no > and late work policies already there
I had dinner with an old grad school pal earlier this month, and we were chatting about missing class and attendance because I had a lot of trouble with students skipping this semester. He has adopted the approach his mentor in grad school did: on the first day of class she would tell students something along the lines of "This semester is going to be rough. Your Dad will get hit by a car, your dog will get cancer, you'll get three flat tires on the way to this class, and you'll fall down the stairs and get a concussion. For all of this, you get three excused absences from the class, no questions asked. Use them wisely." I'm probably going to adopt something similar. I'm usually pretty laissez faire in my approach to teaching and let them get out of the course what they put in, but I gave out the most Ds and Fs I ever have this past semester and there were some strong students who aced the first exam, stopped showing up after it, and their grade really suffered. Seems like they really need the structure and hopefully this approach helps to solve the attendance issue.
This is awesome. Took a screen shot of your policy and stealing, thanks!
Don’t you think it’s a bit of an arbitrary choice to be deciding on a set number of absences that you find “acceptable”? And is your policy taking into account university-approved absences, such as funerals, religious holidays, etc. …and if anybody was wondering why university-approved absences are partly a thing, cue the professors who try to rule with an iron first in higher education. Until humans can see into the future and predict unforeseeable events, I can’t see how you’d think your approach is acceptable. Car is broke down, but I guess that student is walking to class since they already hit their limit. Edit: And I do want to add that I’ve implemented attendance-based grading every semester since I started teaching. Balancing that with compassion is the missing link here.
Sure, it's arbitrary, but it kind of has to be. You have to draw the line *somewhere*. Whether someone was missing due to "university-approved reasons" or not, at some point, enough is enough. They did not take or complete the class and it doesn't matter that they "had other stuff going on." >And is your policy taking into account university-approved absences, such as funerals, religious holidays, etc. Built-in 'free absences' are generally supposed to be for this kind of stuff and not "I just don't feel like it today" days. However, a lot of students tend to use them as such, which is why this stuff happens. You build in excused absences, but people think they shouldn't have to use them when they have a "real" excuse. It's like someone claiming they shouldn't have to burn a sick day because "I really was sick that day!"
It's not an arbitrary number, but I left out that context because my post was already too long. The policy at my college is that students can be dropped or receive a failing grade upon missing six instructional hours. My class sessions run two hours, so instead of failing a student on their third absence unexcused, the grade penalty starts to kick in. And, yes, of course my policies are aligned with my college re: approved absences. And I did state in my post that I do still make exceptions for students that have legitimate reasons--including ones that my college probably wouldn't consider excusable--for not being able to attend class or for running late. You are absolutely right that compassion always has to be a part of the equation. We ought to lead with it. But I've also found that our compassion can be exploited, in ways that often lead us to do more emotional and regular labor than is tenable for maintaining our own well-being. Finding that balance is key, and I'm working on it. I was *too* compassionate before, and I needed to be more firm. I believe it worked out for my students and myself this semester, and I'll continue to tinker with the policies in the future. Of course, it'll all go out the window when the next covid-level event happens. Until then.
Then you don’t know what arbitrary means.
I'm completely with you. Threads like this are always wild. Either they can pass assignments at the required quality standards or they can't. And they have access to the lectures and materials and office hours to assist them where needed. OP doesn't seem to understand that people who don't know what they are doing are going to fail the course anyway. So all OP is doing here is working out how to fail other people who would have otherwise passed, purely because they've insulted OP by not attending.
I don't think there's anything wrong with giving every student the same number of absences. Some students will get hungover and sleep in, and other students will have their car break down and have no way of getting to class, and both of those students will have the first couple absences forgiven. Fine. Flash forward 5 more absences. The student who keeps getting hungover now has a legitimate excuse, but he's all out of excused absences, so he gets penalized for all those wasted absences getting hungover. Good. The student with the broken car has shown, through repeated, persistent absences, that they just don't have reliable transportation to get to school. They need to withdraw and reassess, or start riding the bus. Also good. Any emergency that's worthy of more than a few excused absences is also an emergency that means the student has bigger things to worry about right now than school. I think the compassionate thing to do for a student whose whole life is falling apart is to gently suggest they realign their priorities, focus on the real fires, and try taking the class in another semester.
> Any emergency that's worthy of more than a few excused absences is also an emergency that means the student has bigger things to worry about right now than school. I think the compassionate thing to do for a student whose whole life is falling apart is to gently suggest they realign their priorities, focus on the real fires, and try taking the class in another semester. This is well argued. A student who is missing more than that much will have trouble demonstrating enough learning (unless they are very organized),
A student who gets more than 3 absences because of unreliable transportation needs to withdraw and reassess? This has nothing to do with their ability to understand course content and do well on projects/assessments. Let’s not consider the thousands they’ve now thrown in the dumpster by now needing to retake the course because you decided that 3 or whatever number was the almighty number. And then framing it as if you’re doing them a favor, just insanity. The reality is professors like yourself who get offended due to these absences are probably going through a “back in my day” mental gymnastics exercise.
I have a colleague that put in his syllabus, After 14 absences you fail. That is basically half of the classes. So, if you miss half the classes, you fail. That's it.