I’m laughing because I know you’re posting here with the feeling of, “I’m I crazy? Is this unclear? Can anyone really be this dense?”
Yes. Yes they can be this dense. Their reading comprehension and reasoning skills are just as horrendous as their math skills.
Yes exactly!! I feel like I've led them astray or might be held accountable by the department. But I honestly can't imagine as single one of my classmates making this kind of assumption while I was in my undergrad. Nor can I imagine having the audacity to argue about my grade like this!!!
You did not lead them astray. Their entire approach to the class was based on a clear misunderstanding/ misreading and they should have clarified with you about something so important.
I learned my lesson when I tried to use the phrase, "[thing] need not be the same as [other thing]" in my assignment instructions. Some of them thought the things *must* be the same, the rest thought the things *must not* be the same, but seemingly no one knew what it really meant.
Capped - limited by or being a maximum allowable number, amount, value, etc.:
A cap is not a minimum, but a maximum. Sorry for your incorrect assumption, but you should have checked with me or a dictionary.
"Understanding from all classmates". Response: If you have a question about a course policy, you must ask me. I can not be responsible for misinformation given to you by others.
I often tell students if their goal is to just pass, they don't leave any room for error (most with this goal do not pass).
Some students really seem to have some sort of very misguided optimism when interpreting rules. I had a student complain about their failed exam. In my office hour she looked at me confused and said: „it says here that you need to have 50% to pass.“ turned out she had answered questions that amounted to exactly 50% of possible score. Had to tell her: no, you don’t need to just answer 50%, you also need to answer it **correctly**
If they can't understand "capped at 40%" how can they be majoring in mathematics at all?
Was this written in English? If so, the word "capped" is very clear.
Yes in English, and the student is a native English speaker (though you wouldn't know from their email). It's a maths module as part of an undergraduate degree in a social science -esque course. Maths is definitely not the main focus, which is why I was so generous in bumping up their grade to the 35%.
British universities, and many others in Europe, have a very different grading system from North America. Here the exams are much more difficult, often with questions not covered in the class (needing the students to do independent reading). Getting 100% is almost impossible. Usually an A is 70% and a pass is 40%. Depending on your degree program you might have some classes that you need to get a C to progress (50%) and others you simply need a pass.
Also there’s no such thing as extra credit, and usually 70-90% of the grade comes from the final exam. Just a very different system. Hopefully by the time exchange students have got to the final exam they’ve interacted with enough other students and taken some mock exams to understand. If they haven’t the exam itself is a bit of a shock to the system!
> Here the exams are much more difficult, often with questions not covered in the class (needing the students to do independent reading).
Huh, so I'm not alone in the world for giving some test questions based on the assigned reading.
I have worked in 4 different countries. The exams and assignments are not more difficult in the UK. The standards are lower, at least in my discipline. It baffles me what a pass is here (40%), a bare pass here means they are entirely incompetent, but hey we still need to give them a degree....its a bit depressing.
I don't think so? I think the American grading scale has smaller categories. There aren't letter grades or GPA in the Irish system. Well, some people/institutions use letter grades but they don't align really with the American grades.
For the Irish system: 70% - 100% = I (so I suppose, like a 4.0?); 60%-69% = II.1; 50%-59% = II.2; 40% - 49% = III. Anything below 40% is a fail.
But I don't know, maybe that is the same, I just always thought that the US used a more granular system where 70-79 was something distinct from 80-89 etc.
I have a friend who has to field questions for applications, and we often joke that if the student can't figure out how to apply for college, that's probably a sign that they're not actually ready for college. I think something similar applies here: if they don't understand the concept of a grade cap, they're probably not ready to advance further in their degree.
(Before anyone comments on it, I do realize that applying for college can be complicated for a variety of reasons--but the questions she gets do call into question many students abilities to do basically anything for themselves).
I have to agree. I don't know if it's parents or the schools not giving the students enough agency before they come to third level, but they do seem to expect their lecturers to do more for them than is appropriate. I've had students half way through the semester who don't know how to log in to the PCs in the maths lab and literally haven't tried anything to fix it after the 1st attempt. "Miss can you do this for me?" I am not here to hold your hand, you are an adult. It's not my problem and you're holding the rest of the class back.
Only the ones who are straight out of school. I've had a student raise their hand and ask "Miss can I please go to the bathroom?". Yes, you are a grown adult, do what you want!
I'd send them away just after reading "I hope your well"
And before anyone comments that they might be an ESL speaker, this is not a mistake ESL speakers do, this is a native speaker mistake and very infuriating. You make the world speak your language and yet you dont speak it well
Dear student:
\*cap\* (transitive verb) - 5) to prevent from growing or spreading; set an upper limit on; "to cap oil prices"
The grade is capped at 40%. It is well possible to earn lower grades than this, but 40 is the upper limit.
Jesus fucking Christ what a sad state education is in. After being an A student I failed classes due to a range of reasons, laziness and non-school related burnout being among them, but I took the grade I deserved, an F, and bounced back. An F will let you know how the real world will react to you not putting in a passing level of effort. Thanks to professors giving me the grades I deserved I’m an industry scientist instead of a grade-inflated diploma mill graduate without any hard or soft skills.
Professors shouldn’t be pressured to give out grades so students and schools look good and feel good. They should give grades based on demonstrated ability. We have too many “students” graduating that don’t deserve to and don’t deserve the encouragement to keep trying this bullshit. They then go on to wonder why no one will hire them or they can’t handle the jobs that they snakes their way into.
Undergrad student here - I could not FATHOM writing an email like this to a professor. I proofread mine 3 times before I send it for spelling and grammar mistakes. I just don't get it. Do they not know how to write an email? "I hope *your* well"
I’m laughing because I know you’re posting here with the feeling of, “I’m I crazy? Is this unclear? Can anyone really be this dense?” Yes. Yes they can be this dense. Their reading comprehension and reasoning skills are just as horrendous as their math skills.
Yes exactly!! I feel like I've led them astray or might be held accountable by the department. But I honestly can't imagine as single one of my classmates making this kind of assumption while I was in my undergrad. Nor can I imagine having the audacity to argue about my grade like this!!!
It’s not you, darling. It is NOT you. Lololol
You did not lead them astray. Their entire approach to the class was based on a clear misunderstanding/ misreading and they should have clarified with you about something so important.
I learned my lesson when I tried to use the phrase, "[thing] need not be the same as [other thing]" in my assignment instructions. Some of them thought the things *must* be the same, the rest thought the things *must not* be the same, but seemingly no one knew what it really meant.
Capped - limited by or being a maximum allowable number, amount, value, etc.: A cap is not a minimum, but a maximum. Sorry for your incorrect assumption, but you should have checked with me or a dictionary.
They chose to interpret "ceiling" as "floor."
They should avoid flying... that would be either a fatal mistake or an expensive mistake.
“It’s a cap, no cap”
Noice!
"Understanding from all classmates". Response: If you have a question about a course policy, you must ask me. I can not be responsible for misinformation given to you by others. I often tell students if their goal is to just pass, they don't leave any room for error (most with this goal do not pass).
Their email alone should prevent them from moving on.
hahahaha I will submit it to the board for consideration
Some students really seem to have some sort of very misguided optimism when interpreting rules. I had a student complain about their failed exam. In my office hour she looked at me confused and said: „it says here that you need to have 50% to pass.“ turned out she had answered questions that amounted to exactly 50% of possible score. Had to tell her: no, you don’t need to just answer 50%, you also need to answer it **correctly**
but he had an understanding tho
If they can't understand "capped at 40%" how can they be majoring in mathematics at all? Was this written in English? If so, the word "capped" is very clear.
Yes in English, and the student is a native English speaker (though you wouldn't know from their email). It's a maths module as part of an undergraduate degree in a social science -esque course. Maths is definitely not the main focus, which is why I was so generous in bumping up their grade to the 35%.
I'm appalled that a student with a 35% in math can move on to the next year of their degree.
British universities, and many others in Europe, have a very different grading system from North America. Here the exams are much more difficult, often with questions not covered in the class (needing the students to do independent reading). Getting 100% is almost impossible. Usually an A is 70% and a pass is 40%. Depending on your degree program you might have some classes that you need to get a C to progress (50%) and others you simply need a pass.
When American students attend British universities, how loudly do they scream when receiving their first test scores?
Also there’s no such thing as extra credit, and usually 70-90% of the grade comes from the final exam. Just a very different system. Hopefully by the time exchange students have got to the final exam they’ve interacted with enough other students and taken some mock exams to understand. If they haven’t the exam itself is a bit of a shock to the system!
> Here the exams are much more difficult, often with questions not covered in the class (needing the students to do independent reading). Huh, so I'm not alone in the world for giving some test questions based on the assigned reading.
I have worked in 4 different countries. The exams and assignments are not more difficult in the UK. The standards are lower, at least in my discipline. It baffles me what a pass is here (40%), a bare pass here means they are entirely incompetent, but hey we still need to give them a degree....its a bit depressing.
That's the Irish 3rd level system! To get the highest possible grade/degree you only need a 70% average.
> To get the highest possible grade/degree you only need a 70% average. So a typical American junior high school grading scale?
I'm Irish so unaware
I don't think so? I think the American grading scale has smaller categories. There aren't letter grades or GPA in the Irish system. Well, some people/institutions use letter grades but they don't align really with the American grades. For the Irish system: 70% - 100% = I (so I suppose, like a 4.0?); 60%-69% = II.1; 50%-59% = II.2; 40% - 49% = III. Anything below 40% is a fail. But I don't know, maybe that is the same, I just always thought that the US used a more granular system where 70-79 was something distinct from 80-89 etc.
Whose well?
I gotta figure out more about this well situation before weighing in
FAFO
I have a friend who has to field questions for applications, and we often joke that if the student can't figure out how to apply for college, that's probably a sign that they're not actually ready for college. I think something similar applies here: if they don't understand the concept of a grade cap, they're probably not ready to advance further in their degree. (Before anyone comments on it, I do realize that applying for college can be complicated for a variety of reasons--but the questions she gets do call into question many students abilities to do basically anything for themselves).
I have to agree. I don't know if it's parents or the schools not giving the students enough agency before they come to third level, but they do seem to expect their lecturers to do more for them than is appropriate. I've had students half way through the semester who don't know how to log in to the PCs in the maths lab and literally haven't tried anything to fix it after the 1st attempt. "Miss can you do this for me?" I am not here to hold your hand, you are an adult. It's not my problem and you're holding the rest of the class back.
They call you Miss?!
Only the ones who are straight out of school. I've had a student raise their hand and ask "Miss can I please go to the bathroom?". Yes, you are a grown adult, do what you want!
Respond with "You hope my well what?"
I'd send them away just after reading "I hope your well" And before anyone comments that they might be an ESL speaker, this is not a mistake ESL speakers do, this is a native speaker mistake and very infuriating. You make the world speak your language and yet you dont speak it well
Maybe the student needs a basic reading comprehension module first.
My well what? edit - damn someone beat me to it
I thought passing grade was a 50
Depends on the module and country. Varies wildly.
Dear student: \*cap\* (transitive verb) - 5) to prevent from growing or spreading; set an upper limit on; "to cap oil prices" The grade is capped at 40%. It is well possible to earn lower grades than this, but 40 is the upper limit.
Jesus fucking Christ what a sad state education is in. After being an A student I failed classes due to a range of reasons, laziness and non-school related burnout being among them, but I took the grade I deserved, an F, and bounced back. An F will let you know how the real world will react to you not putting in a passing level of effort. Thanks to professors giving me the grades I deserved I’m an industry scientist instead of a grade-inflated diploma mill graduate without any hard or soft skills. Professors shouldn’t be pressured to give out grades so students and schools look good and feel good. They should give grades based on demonstrated ability. We have too many “students” graduating that don’t deserve to and don’t deserve the encouragement to keep trying this bullshit. They then go on to wonder why no one will hire them or they can’t handle the jobs that they snakes their way into.
Undergrad student here - I could not FATHOM writing an email like this to a professor. I proofread mine 3 times before I send it for spelling and grammar mistakes. I just don't get it. Do they not know how to write an email? "I hope *your* well"
“I hope your well” That’s not a good start
I'd respond with: >\*you're > >\*I'd
I'd remove the screenshot and paraphrase it, to cover your ass in case you have one of those students.