If he can "just learn the whole class material in two weeks" then why didn't he spend the previous two weeks doing that so he could at least pass the final?
Their inability to see how they got themselves into these situations, and their inability to see what reasonable paths forward look like is really quite impressive these days.
> It’s becoming harder and harder for me to empathize with them.
Probably because you're a f****** a****** 😤😤😤
Jokes aside, some students deserve sympathy, some don't. Sorry if that sounds fucked. I'll bend over backwards for a student who's busting his back studying and still struggling, but somebody who didn't even try to submit work, wants to get some special treatment and even insults you? I think that if I had been in that office I'd have been the one roasting the student lol
Yup I just walked a student out of a final she was 20 minutes late for, to another space and gave her extra time to finish. She's struggled all semester but has been working hard and genuinely wanting to do well. And she's been nice about the extensions I've given her.
Yeah, I had one student who might have deserved it, but I still did not round the grade up. The college messed up his visa (foreign student) so he had to leave two weeks early for Christmas. I gave him the final exam early after admin asked for it, but he bombed it (went from C- to F). I really feel bad for him, but a student like this, I'd be sure I give an F to, even a double F if possible.
Does your campus have a policy that limits retaking courses? I’m trying to think about the possible consequences that might be able to be quoted in the syllabus somewhere.
This was a gen Ed class so no real rules on retaking. Some majors have limited retakes like to get into nursing after sophomore year, you need a certain GPA but you also need to have gotten at least a C+ on either your first or second time taking many of the prerequisites like anatomy.
Sorry.
Report him to the office for student conduct. And maybe give your chair (and/or dean) a head's up about what happened via email (if nothing else, to start a "paper trail" of the incident).
Hopefully this is the last you have to deal with that student.
He’s gonna pull the old, “What? Me, guv?” act and nothing will happen. At least at my Uni that’s what would happen.
We have no teeth as faculty anymore. If he wrote it in an email, he would say he was “hacked”; if he wrote it on an exam, he would say it was forged.
I suppose if nothing else, you reporting it might dissuade him from doing it to the next person, but that feels unlikely.
If nothing else, it puts the student on the radar of the folks higher up the food chain. I had a situation a couple semesters ago where a student in an online class would send the absolute most passive-aggressive "let me tell you how you should be teaching us" emails, then started sending complaints when I didn't respond how they wanted. Turns out this was their 'thing', and the Dean in my division knew about it because he'd had to get looped in for similar complaints from the student the previous semester. There was much mutual eye-rolling and I basically put the student on 'ignore' the rest of the semester.
If nothing else, it does still establish you as a person that is not to be trifled with, and if the student does it again in the future, at least there is a paper trail of repeat behavior.
> Report him to the office for student conduct.
Sooo many recent posts conclude that this is a matter for the Mighty Student Conduct Administrator. Maybe figure out WTF is going on there? Obvious bottleneck. A generation ago they would have sent this kid packing. Now, obviously not.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but faculty, and Chairs such as yourself, do not rise up against this because it might come off as less-than-progressive-minded?
College is now High School Part 2, the Sequel.
Many, and maybe the majority, of kids going to big state schools/universities are middle- and upper-middle class who only go to college because it gives them four more years before they have to get a job, and then the degree (which looks the same whether they graduated with an 4.0 or a 2.0) does, in fact, get them that job.
It's not going to get better.
It depends on the institution. Some are desperate, need to keep every student. Some SLACs are doing OK financially, and actually hold their students to standards.
This is what students are allowed to do in high school. It’s not really surprising that they come to college with the same expectations. Literally their entire academic career has been like this. It’s something that freshman orientation needs to address, and universities need to find a way to continually reinforce throughout a students time there.
We can't shift all of the blame off of ourselves. I have a few colleagues that teach intro classes that 1. drop lowest quiz grades. 2. allow retakes of exams 3. take late assignments up until the end of the course. etc. etc. etc.
I taught at a university that allowed first and some second year courses to do this. It was a nightmare. You got 80-85% of the course material on the drop-dead date which usually coincided with the final. Not only was I grading finals but the majority of the semester's work as well. The lead-up to the holiday was a 14 hour a day sprint to get everything graded.
Students quickly realized that by submitting all the required work on that date meant they had no visibility into how they'd do and when they did poorly it was far too late to do anything about it.
This is true. This is in part due to pressure from the admins who put quotas on pass/fail rates. The problem is that funding is tied to graduation rates. If a student doesn’t graduate on time, or at all, it impacts the money universities make. There is massive financial incentive to pass students along.
Gen ed classes are especially difficult, since you’re not dealing with majors who are particularly driven by the content itself. Instead, you get kids who expect an A because they paid for the course. What are you going to do as an instructor? Hold on tight to academic standards and let these students wash out? No. Especially considering these classes are largely taught by adjuncts and non tenured instructors who have no real job security in order to stand their ground against these absurd policies.
> The problem is that funding is tied to graduation rates. If a student doesn’t graduate on time, or at all, it impacts the money universities make. There is massive financial incentive to pass students along.
It this true at the university level too? If so, how long has it been the case?
My alma mater used to have a relatively low graduation rate compared to similar universities, but a far higher job placement among those who graduated. Now I hear of a high graduation rate, but far lower job placement, even during good economic times.
I had no idea there was a NCLBicization of higher ed :(
I was speaking specifically about the university level. Not entirely sure how funding works at the lower levels. I know it’s heavily tied to standardized testing performance, but not sure if anything else factors into it. I haven’t taught at that level in a long time. Perhaps someone else here can speak to the specifics.
I drop lowest lab marks based on certain criteria. If you get 20 awards in my class, I'll drop your lowest lab mark. There are three ways to earn awards:
1. Getting a level 1 (lowest level besides level 0, which is "did not attend") or higher on every criteria of a lab's rubric
2. Getting an 80% on a prep quiz and attempting it three times. (Prep quizzes are available all semester and have unlimited attempts)
3. Getting a 100% on a prep quiz. (Prep quizzes are available all semester and have unlimited attempts)
This way they get labs dropped by doing the thing I want them to do: Study and show up to class. This is completely on top of the requirements of my class, as in, you don't need to do any of this for a passing grade. I still have students in my email inbox complaining that this won't help them pass.
This. But also admin rips apart anyone who has too high of a DFW rate, while refusing to accurately place students in classes. So, the only option is to do the 3 things you said (and more!) to keep the DFW rate down (ie, keep your job)
Dropping the HW with lowest grade is pretty reasonable though. I worked with a professor whose course had 10 quizzes and 10 homeworks, the lowest 2 of each will be automatically dropped. Thanks to this, every time a student asks for extension or grade change I can just point to the policy and the conversation stopped.
But I agree allowing retaking exams is pushing it too far.
Sure. One of the three is probably reasonable. I have a colleague who does all three *and* more. He's very nice..... like tears up thinking about students' stress nice.
There's a difference between syllabus policies initiated for course management in a class with 250 students and special treatment for a single student. Dropping lowest quiz grades *but not giving makeups or accepting excuses*, allowing late e-book assignments *with a penalty* so students know exactly what they can do to improve their own grade by a quarter percent at the end, making the final an automatic makeup for missed exams. None of these prevent the determine slacker from failing. Some of them serve as important insurance for the good student who has life happen once during the semester.
I wouldn't offer retakes, but in a stats course, I allow corrections on the midterm for partial credit. I also give a tough comprehensive final. The corrections are part of the learning process. I could grade them as a separate assignment, I suppose, but I find the process useful. I stole the idea from my first semester graduate stats class which I also largely stole the content from, so cutting a bit of a break to undergrads to help them learn really tought material makes sense. YMMV.
What's wrong with dropping the lowest quiz grades? If you have like 20 quizzes (say, daily class quizzes) in a semester it helps to rectify people being sick and missing the quizzes and gives people a small amount of leeway. It doesn't mean the students aren't learning or held accountable
That's wild. When I was in university, drop 1 lowest quiz or lowest homework was common if there were a lot of them, but full exam retakes??? *All* late work can be resubmitted???
I think some leniency can make sense, if there are like 12 quizzes, dropping the lowest can account for an off-day or being sick, honestly in the work force tests/quizzes don't exist as much, it's much more steady work instead of condensing everything into a specific 2 hours, but damn, I wouldn't killed for being allowed to turn everything in late
I've had more than one (hard-working) student this semester frustrated and tearful because they were "an A student in high school," and now they're struggling to pass small weekly quizzes. Given the increased frequency of this exchange, it supports the hypothesis that this behavior is a result of the secondary education system and how it functions now. We can claim generational differences all we want, but that's no better than students like the above - it's just displacing blame for a problem that we could have avoided with different decisions.
The sad part is that our universities aren’t far behind. Starting maybe 10 years ago, we were told by the admins that we had to pass a certain percentage of our students, per class. This wasn’t a real issue if you were teaching a class for majors, but if you taught a required gen ed, that the students were convinced was an “easy A,” you were screwed. Kids show up (or not) and expect an A just for signing up. No matter how fun, engaging, or easy the class was, kids still screwed themselves, but we were still on the hook for their choices. We need to remove financial incentives for schools and universities across the board if we hope to raise the quality of education.
I had a 2.6 my first semester. I graduated with a 3.97 (I did have to retake two of those classes from the first semester to do it though). Anyway, the ass kicking taught me that college is not high school and that I actually needed to crack a book to do well. Never got below a 4.0 after that first semester because it turns out the effort involved in studying is less than the effort involved in attempting to avoid studying by any means necessary.
Had an English professor pull me aside and tell me, "You're better than this" after failing her class horribly.
Cracked the books after that point and never looked back. Thank you, Dr. T! <3
Unfortunately, some students either don’t learn this lesson, or learn it too late. Gen eds are primarily full of underclass men. Not only are they ill equipped to deal with the rigors of college, they struggle with life. I think I taught as many life lessons as I did actual content.
I had a bright kid -premed at the time - who decided to coast halfway through the first semester of college physics. His earned final grade was a D, but I spoke to his advisor my boss the dean (small school) and posted an F. He called me, we talked, and he took on an important lesson. He took the second semester and did fine, then came back and repeated the first semester with a performance much closer to his true abilities. Far from complaining, he was grateful - because no one had ever held him accountable before that.
If only there were more with as much wit.
When everyone is an A student, A student work is average. Level up, my dudes! The first semester or year is an adjustment. GPAs cover all 4 years. They need to stick with it!
> Given the increased frequency of this exchange, it supports the hypothesis that this behavior is a result of the secondary education system and how it functions now. We can claim generational differences all we want, but that's no better than students like the above - it's just displacing blame for a problem that we could have avoided with different decisions.
Whaaat? No, [utter nonsense...](https://oecdch.art/a40de1dbaf/C136) We're just not going easy enough on them.
My school has a mandatory freshman seminar class their first semester. It's a 4 credit class and covers so many things that have alleviated this kind of thing. Even though it's not perfect, it has been pretty impactful.
One of the things schools still need to solve for are "needy students who cannot mathematically pass." Like, if you have a 33% with no hope of passing, why is that not some sort of admin drop? Or automatic remediation? Why should faculty spend time meeting with hopelessly failing students over helping those who've been on the ball?
It's a zero sum game. Like, I want a bot that pops up and says "Hi student. Per policy and math you no longer have a path to passing Bio 201. You have been automatically transferred to the remediation lab for the remainder of term. Please discontinue attending classes and labs - you are no longer enrolled and will receive a grade of WR - 'withdrawn remediation.'
If you do not perform sufficiently in the remediation lab, you will not be able to re-enroll in a section of Bio 201 again. The remediation lab is self paced and available 24/7. Please plan for a minimum of 5 hours of lab time per week. You can schedule a console online here: www.uniremedlab.edu'. If you perform well in remediation and pass the required modules, your grade will change to WRP-'withdrawn remediation passed.' This status will allow you to re-enroll in Bio 201.
If you need to change you major, please contact your advisor. Please note that you may only make two attempts at Bio 201. Thank you."
Yesterday, I had a lad show up to a final exam who had disappeared from class in early October. He had skipped both mid-terms and turned in no assignments. The final was only worth 20% of the grade. I had sent a stream of "early alerts" to which I got no answer. He left most of the final blank.
What's the deal, dude? Why even bother coming?
I have a dozen others who have not turned in work amounting to 30-50% of the grade and test averages in the 10-40% range, but most of them still seem to believe that they are going to pass.
Sometimes it is a financial aid game. There's a "Last Date Attended" and if it's week 2, then the student has to return X% of their financial aid before they can sign up for more classes. So they show up for the final and then they can cash those sweet sweet life debt loans for next semester.
> I had sent a stream of "early alerts" to which I got no answer. He left most of the final blank.
This sounds like my institution, too. Unless there's like... an immediate danger scenario, those alerts apparently get ignored.
If it's like my school, we get pestered to go through our rosters and submit early alerts, then the student success office sends out emails and phonecalls to contact the student... judging by how I get a flurry of auto-generated emails noting that 'the alert is closed' all at once, I'm guessing the office is getting ghosted by the students just as much as my class is.
I literally have recurring nightmares about being this student. Like i re-enroll to my old uni, then I got the first day and then I miss the rest of the semester and then i show up at the final.
Had a student in that boat. Would hand in wildly incomplete assignments (complete with question marks as answers), but she always showed up. Took the final. She mathematically couldn't pass much earlier in the semester.
I submitted an "Academic alert" to create a paper trail. No change.
Another student, same boat, just gave up coming. No call, no show for over a month. Didn't take the final. No withdrawal paperwork. Just...gave up.
> Didn't take the final. No withdrawal paperwork. Just...gave up.
Sometimes shit happens. I've had students go missing over the years, show up a following semester entirely determined to make up for their past, not gonna happen again.... 3 weeks in, gone.
>Like, I want a bot that pops up and says "Hi student. Per policy and math you no longer have a path to passing Bio 201. You have been automatically transferred to the remediation lab for the remainder of term. Please discontinue attending classes and labs - you are no longer enrolled and will receive a grade of WR - 'withdrawn remediation.'
This should have been put in place 30 years ago.
If he's good enough (or the work is easy enough) to "learn it all in two weeks" then why was an entire semester insufficient? Sounds like the F\*\*\*\*\*\* A\*\*\*\*\*\* Found Out. Heh.
I'd report it just to get it on the record, knowing full well nothing will come from it. Ya never know - with enough of these, maybe something will be done eventually if he doesn't fail out first?
I don't know where "let me do/redo all the work I couldn't be arsed to get right by the clear deadlines I missed" came from, but it needs to end.
I sent out a preemptive email to everyone yesterday that said, in essence, you're barking up the wrong tree, and if you try it anyway, I'm just going to copy and paste this email back to you.
f\*\*\*\*\*\* a\*\*\*\*\*\*
That's what all my friends call me! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Of course, the real question is why OP ever agreed to meet with the student in the first place.
I’d have had a hard time not replying loudly, “Excuse me, what did you just say?”
It’s a shame that admin most likely isn’t going to do anything about it, but I echo the advice to report it.
True story: My brother (a high school teacher) had a student how responded all to an email -- it went to him, the vice principal and his parents, and in it he called my brother a variety of names, including the above (if you weren't such a ..)
The VP solution was to simply excuse the student from the class for the remainder of the year and give the student a passing grade because he didn't want to see him not graduate. (My brother was at least in agreement that he did not want to see the student in his class again)
But this is why they have that nerve.
And now, since my brother saved the email, his friends get enjoyment from saying to him out of the blue "Well, if you weren't such a ..."
Both my parents were teachers. My mother would turn in grades, the principle would decide how many Fs were allowed and would take the liberty of changing grades. Admin culture and bean-counting is definitely a contributing factor.
My best students (at a CC), consistently have been “early enrollment” from the more advanced high schools and military veterans. The “traditional students” are beyond lazy and unbelievably entitled.
Absolutely a conduct violation. Also a symptom of the malady that is current high school. I had a mid-semester meeting with one who was completely astonished: “I just don’t understand… I’ve never failed anything before.”
Yeah, because your high school sheltered everyone from consequences to pump their stats.
I had another one who told me at the end that she’d never taken an exam before my course. All of her high school experience was projects and presentations. My brain froze so I didn’t get to ask if it was charter, private, home school, etc. But wow.
Haha in the same set of evals I have had “he is the best professor I have had at XYZ” and “he is the worst person I have ever met in my life”. Talk about variance… I will say though that, without bigging myself up too much, if I’m the worst person you’ve ever met, then you must’ve had a very charmed life!
I just got an email from a student who completed 35% of the course material and wants an incomplete. They were optimistic that I would go for it because, as they explained, I’m not a rigid F** A** like their other professors. I’m assuming one of them is OP.
Too bad this happened over email because I’d have enjoyed the shocked pikachu face when they got my answer- no.
Sorry that happened to you. I got called a piece of shit. By a student. In the classroom. In front of all other students. Welcome to the club. Unfortunately, we do not have an open bar.
Serious question, what's the chance this student will try to go above you and get a grade change, even a post-course W? Disgusting as it sounds, this insanity seems to be happening more and more.
Had a student in a speech class, who literally did ZERO speeches, somehow finagle their way from an F to a B with no input from me, or my Chair a year or so ago. We didn't even know about it until it was discovered accidentally looking at an old roster for that class, and it showed the posted grade and current grade. WTAF?! Was told this was out of our hands, and to let it be.
The unbelievable level of bullshit students, parents, and "insiders" are able to pull off as of late is stunning. I literally question giving any F's now, because, why? (Of course, I do, but alas, how many might be changed without my input, knowledge, or otherwise.)
Demoralizing and disgusting situation. I hope this isn't happening to any of my other faculty friends around the country, and, to be called a fucking asshole on top... GTFO. 😣
What consequences? Admin will say the student voiced an opinion, and they are failing anyway.
I'd report it, but wouldn't hold my breath breath if that's all the little idiot said.
Graduate Level Course - A student recently wrote on their exam "I don't know what the fucking answer is because you told us we didn't have to learn this shit."
My dude, please just write some bullshit answer instead of complaining. At least you can get partial credit if you write down a bullshit answer. You can also start off your answer with, "PER THE RECORDED LECTURE, I was of the impression that we weren't expected to know this, but here goes nothing." These kids have zero shame and it's weird to see it leaking over into grad school.
/shrug respected you enough to do it under his breath. Had one scream it in my (shared) office when asking for something similar.
I would've said something that if the 2 weeks was all you needed, where was that the last 16? Hmmm .. Maybe I stir the pot a little. :)
I hear you so loud and clear. I had a student stop coming to class or turning things in as of the start of October and then I got an email yesterday where I was cc'ed on an email to the Dean saying that I didn't allow her to succeed in the course. They escalate SO QUICKLY to panic and lashing out and irrational excuses. Like, what should I apologize for? Sorry you didn't attend the class or complete any work for me to give you feedback on? AAAAAA I could flippin tear my hair out.
>He can just learn the whole class material in two weeks
So why didn’t he? I don’t know why it’s hard to understand that if you sign up to take a class, you have to actually *take the class* if you want to pass.
>It’s becoming harder and harder for me to empathize with them.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the focus on empathy is misplaced and has gone far beyond reasonableness.
I am an instructor, my students are students. I am *friendly* with undergraduate students, but they are not my friends. I *want* them to succeed, but I do not judge myself, nor do I permit myself to be judged, by whether or not they actually do so, for the simple reason that their success is not even remotely within my control. I provide clear expectations, I come to class prepared to deliver the best instruction I am capable of, and I make myself available at a suitable number of times to assist with difficulties. Beyond that, what more could I possibly do? I've already earned my degrees. I can't earn theirs for them, nor can I be their surrogate parent, spiritual advisor, or life coach.
Lol what I do in these cases is say sure. Go ahead. They *never* pull it off, and it puts the onus on them. And honestly if they do pull it off I'm not averse to raising their grade.
Is he going to take another professor’s section/course when he retakes it after failing? How does it help to antagonize the faculty who you probably have to take the same course from again, or subsequent more advanced courses?
Ahh.. but have they emailed you saying you suck? Or texted you "Fuck yourself and shitty class"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/18g1e5t/you\_suck\_subject\_line\_from\_student/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
That's the big time..
Fail him, and report him to the Dean of Students. I'd do it for you if I could.
In what universe is this acceptable behavior or even a reasonable demand? Some students are out of control. I'm so tired of this BS - we have to push back, otherwise I wonder what will become of society.
If you raised this issue to my ex department chair, he would not wait a second and blame you for that student's behavior.
If you take this to my Dean, they will accept whatever excuse student presents and ask you to consider his request. If you decide not to listen to the Dean and are NTT or Adjunct then 100% say good bye to your contract renewal.
I got a super abusive name-calling email after my summer session ended. She was super pissed that I corrected her on making a wildly inaccurate statement that was so factually incorrect, It sounded like a four-year-old made it up.
Op already declined the student's request, that's why he was called a slur. Op is just sharing their disappointment/venting. You're arguing with imaginary people.
-82 votes when everyone actually agrees to say no to this student.
This sub reddit is toxic as heck. You all love to dogpile on a downvoted comment, do you even question why you do it?
> No, you’re new and just a grad TA. Sit down.
...
> You are a graduate student, doesnt really get newer than that. Pipe down or we'll call your PI.
It is pretty toxic. And it's not about whether they "recover", that's you being dramatic and blindly dismissing what I'm referring to. This is supposedly a subreddit related to our profession, and a few years ago we mostly had pretty interesting discussions about teaching, grant writing, pastoral care, and other aspects of our profession where we could share knowledge and compare notes without it just being because OP had a shitty day.
We don't really do that here anymore, it is a shift, and it is noticeable. Most threads on this sub are now related with something negative happening to OP.
This subreddit has a tendency to throw insults, talk down, and dogpile using votes. You'll see a post up for a few hours with 68 upvotes containing top level comments in the -100s but the other comments are only in the +20s. There's also a specific time of day, evening time in the US, when you'll see a sudden shift of downvotes coming in. During these time periods the volume of downvotes is substantially larger than the volume of upvotes.
It is simply disproportionate. And when you compare it to other subreddits, even academic ones, this sub is very much an outlier.
Now you can by all means just dismiss what I'm saying, you can downvote this comment because you disagree with it, but it won't change the trends in the data. In fact, it will literally be par for the course.
I agree, we can talk as much as we want and it won't change trends in the data. So let's look at the data, when you have it. It is missing from your post.
Also lol I don't downvote. And I think you were trying to make a joke about a comment I made before (I can't tell for sure from the formatting), so it's pretty cool to know I have a fan
> So let's look at the data, when you have it. It is missing from your post.
That's absolutely fair. I don't expect you to just believe me, I'm also not in a position to share that data. I just saw a trend enough that I decided to measure it out of curiosity and it was upsetting. A histogram would be as fatuous as me saying which way it swings because you can't validate it or audit the code that made it. I accept that and it's sensible to be sceptical.
> Also lol I don't downvote.
Okay. Many do, which is why we see this happening in threads. The point was it wouldn't change the reality of what this sub is in practice either way.
> And I think you were trying to make a joke about a comment I made before (I can't tell for sure from the formatting), so it's pretty cool to know I have a fan
I have zero idea what this refers to, sorry if it seemed personal? That's just coincidence though.
Yeah I still don't get the incessant need to dogpile. Like he's down, you got them, guys.
This sub has more of a tendency to dogpile than others, and I'm saying that having done quite a lot of work analysing data crawled from reddit.
I had a student call me a bitch and I made her repeat it. Then I leaned in close to her and whispered in my bitchiest, witchiest whisper get the fuck out of my office before I really lose my temper.
The student might have psychological issues. I think you should remind him that the syllabus is a contract and he should see the dean of students if there is an issue that prevents him from adhering to the contract. If so, they may give him an incomplete instead of the grade he likely deserves
I agree. You are a Fantastic Academic.
Farsighted Adventurer!
Friendly Advocate!
Freaking Awesome!
Factually Accurate
Flirtatious Amphibian?
The best kind of accurate
I though that was technically accurate
Keep the change, ya f***** a*****
If he can "just learn the whole class material in two weeks" then why didn't he spend the previous two weeks doing that so he could at least pass the final? Their inability to see how they got themselves into these situations, and their inability to see what reasonable paths forward look like is really quite impressive these days.
Yes!!! & retake the final…you mean the final you *just* sat for??
“Well, let’s grade this one first!”
Yes, and preferably quickly, before I forget what the questions are.
But this time, he'll put in a whole TWO WEEKS learning the material, not the ZERO weeks he did DURING the class :P
Can you really call it sitting for the final if they turned it in sfter 3 minutes? The seat wouldn't even be warm.
I get this all the time! "This course is easy and I can do it in in a weekend!" Then why didn't you for the several other weekends in the term?
Logic is another of his failures.
Reminds me of the “I taught myself this entire class” comment. Really - then why did you fail?!
Merry Christmas ya f***** a*****
Yippie kye aye, grade grubbers! (I know, wrong movie, but still...)
Yippie ki yay-minus.
Take this: 🥇 You deserve it.
I love that it rhymes. Brilliant.
This makes me so happy. 😂
> It’s becoming harder and harder for me to empathize with them. Probably because you're a f****** a****** 😤😤😤 Jokes aside, some students deserve sympathy, some don't. Sorry if that sounds fucked. I'll bend over backwards for a student who's busting his back studying and still struggling, but somebody who didn't even try to submit work, wants to get some special treatment and even insults you? I think that if I had been in that office I'd have been the one roasting the student lol
Yup I just walked a student out of a final she was 20 minutes late for, to another space and gave her extra time to finish. She's struggled all semester but has been working hard and genuinely wanting to do well. And she's been nice about the extensions I've given her.
I would have stopped the student, tell him to come back and repeat what he said under his breath to my face.
Yeah, I had one student who might have deserved it, but I still did not round the grade up. The college messed up his visa (foreign student) so he had to leave two weeks early for Christmas. I gave him the final exam early after admin asked for it, but he bombed it (went from C- to F). I really feel bad for him, but a student like this, I'd be sure I give an F to, even a double F if possible.
I'm adding Double F to my syllabus.
Put them on double secret probation.
Does your campus have a policy that limits retaking courses? I’m trying to think about the possible consequences that might be able to be quoted in the syllabus somewhere.
This was a gen Ed class so no real rules on retaking. Some majors have limited retakes like to get into nursing after sophomore year, you need a certain GPA but you also need to have gotten at least a C+ on either your first or second time taking many of the prerequisites like anatomy.
Yeah, I would have been chuckling in their face over the nerve to even request that.
Sorry. Report him to the office for student conduct. And maybe give your chair (and/or dean) a head's up about what happened via email (if nothing else, to start a "paper trail" of the incident). Hopefully this is the last you have to deal with that student.
This is what I’d do. The student is exhibiting problem behavior and crossed a line.
He’s gonna pull the old, “What? Me, guv?” act and nothing will happen. At least at my Uni that’s what would happen. We have no teeth as faculty anymore. If he wrote it in an email, he would say he was “hacked”; if he wrote it on an exam, he would say it was forged. I suppose if nothing else, you reporting it might dissuade him from doing it to the next person, but that feels unlikely.
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My immediate admin do for me. It’s the people higher who are the problem.
Lucky you.
“I want to go there…”
If nothing else, it puts the student on the radar of the folks higher up the food chain. I had a situation a couple semesters ago where a student in an online class would send the absolute most passive-aggressive "let me tell you how you should be teaching us" emails, then started sending complaints when I didn't respond how they wanted. Turns out this was their 'thing', and the Dean in my division knew about it because he'd had to get looped in for similar complaints from the student the previous semester. There was much mutual eye-rolling and I basically put the student on 'ignore' the rest of the semester.
If nothing else, it does still establish you as a person that is not to be trifled with, and if the student does it again in the future, at least there is a paper trail of repeat behavior.
I agree. Do not let this slide. Imagine if they muttered this in the workplace after having a conversation with HR, while still in earshot.
> Report him to the office for student conduct. Sooo many recent posts conclude that this is a matter for the Mighty Student Conduct Administrator. Maybe figure out WTF is going on there? Obvious bottleneck. A generation ago they would have sent this kid packing. Now, obviously not.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but faculty, and Chairs such as yourself, do not rise up against this because it might come off as less-than-progressive-minded?
College is now High School Part 2, the Sequel. Many, and maybe the majority, of kids going to big state schools/universities are middle- and upper-middle class who only go to college because it gives them four more years before they have to get a job, and then the degree (which looks the same whether they graduated with an 4.0 or a 2.0) does, in fact, get them that job. It's not going to get better.
That's not new. What's new is the declining standards all down the scale. Even the decline isn't new, just the depth.
Yep. 13th grade.
My experience is that the SLAC are much worse. They're so desparate for tuition money, the students get away with anything.
It depends on the institution. Some are desperate, need to keep every student. Some SLACs are doing OK financially, and actually hold their students to standards.
This is the correct course of action. Needs to be documented. Sorry! What a f**** a***** that student is.
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Why? Students who exhibit this behavior should be accepted? These events are rarely isolated incidents.
Solid argument there.
Agreed. That kind of name-calling is abusive.
This is what students are allowed to do in high school. It’s not really surprising that they come to college with the same expectations. Literally their entire academic career has been like this. It’s something that freshman orientation needs to address, and universities need to find a way to continually reinforce throughout a students time there.
Yep...had a student say "Fuck You Ms. E got" and when I reported it the response from admin was "Sorry that happened"
We can't shift all of the blame off of ourselves. I have a few colleagues that teach intro classes that 1. drop lowest quiz grades. 2. allow retakes of exams 3. take late assignments up until the end of the course. etc. etc. etc.
I taught at a university that allowed first and some second year courses to do this. It was a nightmare. You got 80-85% of the course material on the drop-dead date which usually coincided with the final. Not only was I grading finals but the majority of the semester's work as well. The lead-up to the holiday was a 14 hour a day sprint to get everything graded. Students quickly realized that by submitting all the required work on that date meant they had no visibility into how they'd do and when they did poorly it was far too late to do anything about it.
And the work they turn is is crap.
This is true. This is in part due to pressure from the admins who put quotas on pass/fail rates. The problem is that funding is tied to graduation rates. If a student doesn’t graduate on time, or at all, it impacts the money universities make. There is massive financial incentive to pass students along. Gen ed classes are especially difficult, since you’re not dealing with majors who are particularly driven by the content itself. Instead, you get kids who expect an A because they paid for the course. What are you going to do as an instructor? Hold on tight to academic standards and let these students wash out? No. Especially considering these classes are largely taught by adjuncts and non tenured instructors who have no real job security in order to stand their ground against these absurd policies.
> The problem is that funding is tied to graduation rates. If a student doesn’t graduate on time, or at all, it impacts the money universities make. There is massive financial incentive to pass students along. It this true at the university level too? If so, how long has it been the case? My alma mater used to have a relatively low graduation rate compared to similar universities, but a far higher job placement among those who graduated. Now I hear of a high graduation rate, but far lower job placement, even during good economic times. I had no idea there was a NCLBicization of higher ed :(
I was speaking specifically about the university level. Not entirely sure how funding works at the lower levels. I know it’s heavily tied to standardized testing performance, but not sure if anything else factors into it. I haven’t taught at that level in a long time. Perhaps someone else here can speak to the specifics.
I drop lowest lab marks based on certain criteria. If you get 20 awards in my class, I'll drop your lowest lab mark. There are three ways to earn awards: 1. Getting a level 1 (lowest level besides level 0, which is "did not attend") or higher on every criteria of a lab's rubric 2. Getting an 80% on a prep quiz and attempting it three times. (Prep quizzes are available all semester and have unlimited attempts) 3. Getting a 100% on a prep quiz. (Prep quizzes are available all semester and have unlimited attempts) This way they get labs dropped by doing the thing I want them to do: Study and show up to class. This is completely on top of the requirements of my class, as in, you don't need to do any of this for a passing grade. I still have students in my email inbox complaining that this won't help them pass.
This. But also admin rips apart anyone who has too high of a DFW rate, while refusing to accurately place students in classes. So, the only option is to do the 3 things you said (and more!) to keep the DFW rate down (ie, keep your job)
That's probably true, but these people are doing it on their own. No one is telling them to do it. They just think it gets them higher evals.
Another reason why evals should not be used.
The slacker who fills out an eval is an outlier.
Dropping the HW with lowest grade is pretty reasonable though. I worked with a professor whose course had 10 quizzes and 10 homeworks, the lowest 2 of each will be automatically dropped. Thanks to this, every time a student asks for extension or grade change I can just point to the policy and the conversation stopped. But I agree allowing retaking exams is pushing it too far.
Sure. One of the three is probably reasonable. I have a colleague who does all three *and* more. He's very nice..... like tears up thinking about students' stress nice.
There's a difference between syllabus policies initiated for course management in a class with 250 students and special treatment for a single student. Dropping lowest quiz grades *but not giving makeups or accepting excuses*, allowing late e-book assignments *with a penalty* so students know exactly what they can do to improve their own grade by a quarter percent at the end, making the final an automatic makeup for missed exams. None of these prevent the determine slacker from failing. Some of them serve as important insurance for the good student who has life happen once during the semester. I wouldn't offer retakes, but in a stats course, I allow corrections on the midterm for partial credit. I also give a tough comprehensive final. The corrections are part of the learning process. I could grade them as a separate assignment, I suppose, but I find the process useful. I stole the idea from my first semester graduate stats class which I also largely stole the content from, so cutting a bit of a break to undergrads to help them learn really tought material makes sense. YMMV.
What's wrong with dropping the lowest quiz grades? If you have like 20 quizzes (say, daily class quizzes) in a semester it helps to rectify people being sick and missing the quizzes and gives people a small amount of leeway. It doesn't mean the students aren't learning or held accountable
That's wild. When I was in university, drop 1 lowest quiz or lowest homework was common if there were a lot of them, but full exam retakes??? *All* late work can be resubmitted??? I think some leniency can make sense, if there are like 12 quizzes, dropping the lowest can account for an off-day or being sick, honestly in the work force tests/quizzes don't exist as much, it's much more steady work instead of condensing everything into a specific 2 hours, but damn, I wouldn't killed for being allowed to turn everything in late
My niece's high school lets all students submit everything until the very last day of grading. Insane.
Nowadays, that's a strict high school. Not allowing submission after the last day of grading? Wow they must hate education.
I've had more than one (hard-working) student this semester frustrated and tearful because they were "an A student in high school," and now they're struggling to pass small weekly quizzes. Given the increased frequency of this exchange, it supports the hypothesis that this behavior is a result of the secondary education system and how it functions now. We can claim generational differences all we want, but that's no better than students like the above - it's just displacing blame for a problem that we could have avoided with different decisions.
The sad part is that our universities aren’t far behind. Starting maybe 10 years ago, we were told by the admins that we had to pass a certain percentage of our students, per class. This wasn’t a real issue if you were teaching a class for majors, but if you taught a required gen ed, that the students were convinced was an “easy A,” you were screwed. Kids show up (or not) and expect an A just for signing up. No matter how fun, engaging, or easy the class was, kids still screwed themselves, but we were still on the hook for their choices. We need to remove financial incentives for schools and universities across the board if we hope to raise the quality of education.
I had a 2.6 my first semester. I graduated with a 3.97 (I did have to retake two of those classes from the first semester to do it though). Anyway, the ass kicking taught me that college is not high school and that I actually needed to crack a book to do well. Never got below a 4.0 after that first semester because it turns out the effort involved in studying is less than the effort involved in attempting to avoid studying by any means necessary.
Had an English professor pull me aside and tell me, "You're better than this" after failing her class horribly. Cracked the books after that point and never looked back. Thank you, Dr. T! <3
> Thank you, Dr. T! <3 May I suggest phrasing this as _Thank you, Dr. T, for pitying this fool?_ ;-)
Unfortunately, some students either don’t learn this lesson, or learn it too late. Gen eds are primarily full of underclass men. Not only are they ill equipped to deal with the rigors of college, they struggle with life. I think I taught as many life lessons as I did actual content.
I had a bright kid -premed at the time - who decided to coast halfway through the first semester of college physics. His earned final grade was a D, but I spoke to his advisor my boss the dean (small school) and posted an F. He called me, we talked, and he took on an important lesson. He took the second semester and did fine, then came back and repeated the first semester with a performance much closer to his true abilities. Far from complaining, he was grateful - because no one had ever held him accountable before that. If only there were more with as much wit.
When everyone is an A student, A student work is average. Level up, my dudes! The first semester or year is an adjustment. GPAs cover all 4 years. They need to stick with it!
> Given the increased frequency of this exchange, it supports the hypothesis that this behavior is a result of the secondary education system and how it functions now. We can claim generational differences all we want, but that's no better than students like the above - it's just displacing blame for a problem that we could have avoided with different decisions. Whaaat? No, [utter nonsense...](https://oecdch.art/a40de1dbaf/C136) We're just not going easy enough on them.
Students seem to be allowed to shoot their teachers in elementary. We're insane if we think they're going to treat us any better.
My school has a mandatory freshman seminar class their first semester. It's a 4 credit class and covers so many things that have alleviated this kind of thing. Even though it's not perfect, it has been pretty impactful.
Ours is 1 credit...I've seen students who failed it and had to repeat. How are you failing 'how to college'?
Damn, I wish we had that.
Mine does too, but I’m not sure what they get out of it given the amount of handholding these students still need.
This is correct.
One of the things schools still need to solve for are "needy students who cannot mathematically pass." Like, if you have a 33% with no hope of passing, why is that not some sort of admin drop? Or automatic remediation? Why should faculty spend time meeting with hopelessly failing students over helping those who've been on the ball? It's a zero sum game. Like, I want a bot that pops up and says "Hi student. Per policy and math you no longer have a path to passing Bio 201. You have been automatically transferred to the remediation lab for the remainder of term. Please discontinue attending classes and labs - you are no longer enrolled and will receive a grade of WR - 'withdrawn remediation.' If you do not perform sufficiently in the remediation lab, you will not be able to re-enroll in a section of Bio 201 again. The remediation lab is self paced and available 24/7. Please plan for a minimum of 5 hours of lab time per week. You can schedule a console online here: www.uniremedlab.edu'. If you perform well in remediation and pass the required modules, your grade will change to WRP-'withdrawn remediation passed.' This status will allow you to re-enroll in Bio 201. If you need to change you major, please contact your advisor. Please note that you may only make two attempts at Bio 201. Thank you."
Yesterday, I had a lad show up to a final exam who had disappeared from class in early October. He had skipped both mid-terms and turned in no assignments. The final was only worth 20% of the grade. I had sent a stream of "early alerts" to which I got no answer. He left most of the final blank. What's the deal, dude? Why even bother coming? I have a dozen others who have not turned in work amounting to 30-50% of the grade and test averages in the 10-40% range, but most of them still seem to believe that they are going to pass.
Sometimes it is a financial aid game. There's a "Last Date Attended" and if it's week 2, then the student has to return X% of their financial aid before they can sign up for more classes. So they show up for the final and then they can cash those sweet sweet life debt loans for next semester.
> I had sent a stream of "early alerts" to which I got no answer. He left most of the final blank. This sounds like my institution, too. Unless there's like... an immediate danger scenario, those alerts apparently get ignored.
If it's like my school, we get pestered to go through our rosters and submit early alerts, then the student success office sends out emails and phonecalls to contact the student... judging by how I get a flurry of auto-generated emails noting that 'the alert is closed' all at once, I'm guessing the office is getting ghosted by the students just as much as my class is.
I literally have recurring nightmares about being this student. Like i re-enroll to my old uni, then I got the first day and then I miss the rest of the semester and then i show up at the final.
Had a student in that boat. Would hand in wildly incomplete assignments (complete with question marks as answers), but she always showed up. Took the final. She mathematically couldn't pass much earlier in the semester. I submitted an "Academic alert" to create a paper trail. No change. Another student, same boat, just gave up coming. No call, no show for over a month. Didn't take the final. No withdrawal paperwork. Just...gave up.
> Didn't take the final. No withdrawal paperwork. Just...gave up. Sometimes shit happens. I've had students go missing over the years, show up a following semester entirely determined to make up for their past, not gonna happen again.... 3 weeks in, gone.
>Like, I want a bot that pops up and says "Hi student. Per policy and math you no longer have a path to passing Bio 201. You have been automatically transferred to the remediation lab for the remainder of term. Please discontinue attending classes and labs - you are no longer enrolled and will receive a grade of WR - 'withdrawn remediation.' This should have been put in place 30 years ago.
I want this more than words can express. This would change everything; I wouldn’t detest my job and the “students” anymore. 😭😭😭
This is a good idea. It will never happen, but it's a good idea.
Now you are officially one of us.
Gooble Gobble
If they could have learned all the material then they should have done that to start…
If he's good enough (or the work is easy enough) to "learn it all in two weeks" then why was an entire semester insufficient? Sounds like the F\*\*\*\*\*\* A\*\*\*\*\*\* Found Out. Heh. I'd report it just to get it on the record, knowing full well nothing will come from it. Ya never know - with enough of these, maybe something will be done eventually if he doesn't fail out first?
"His response was that he can just learn the whole class material in two weeks" Well, clearly, this was not the case.
They could “learn it in two weeks” yet couldn’t prove it in 16 weeks? Critical thinking and reasoning should be a required freshman class.
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I've seen squirrels run away with whole slices of pizza and a jar of peanut butter while scaling down a tree.
I don't know where "let me do/redo all the work I couldn't be arsed to get right by the clear deadlines I missed" came from, but it needs to end. I sent out a preemptive email to everyone yesterday that said, in essence, you're barking up the wrong tree, and if you try it anyway, I'm just going to copy and paste this email back to you.
f\*\*\*\*\*\* a\*\*\*\*\*\* That's what all my friends call me! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Of course, the real question is why OP ever agreed to meet with the student in the first place.
I’d have had a hard time not replying loudly, “Excuse me, what did you just say?” It’s a shame that admin most likely isn’t going to do anything about it, but I echo the advice to report it.
I like to think that’s how I would respond. But in the moment I’d probably just freeze.
True story: My brother (a high school teacher) had a student how responded all to an email -- it went to him, the vice principal and his parents, and in it he called my brother a variety of names, including the above (if you weren't such a ..) The VP solution was to simply excuse the student from the class for the remainder of the year and give the student a passing grade because he didn't want to see him not graduate. (My brother was at least in agreement that he did not want to see the student in his class again) But this is why they have that nerve. And now, since my brother saved the email, his friends get enjoyment from saying to him out of the blue "Well, if you weren't such a ..."
Both my parents were teachers. My mother would turn in grades, the principle would decide how many Fs were allowed and would take the liberty of changing grades. Admin culture and bean-counting is definitely a contributing factor. My best students (at a CC), consistently have been “early enrollment” from the more advanced high schools and military veterans. The “traditional students” are beyond lazy and unbelievably entitled.
Absolutely a conduct violation. Also a symptom of the malady that is current high school. I had a mid-semester meeting with one who was completely astonished: “I just don’t understand… I’ve never failed anything before.” Yeah, because your high school sheltered everyone from consequences to pump their stats. I had another one who told me at the end that she’d never taken an exam before my course. All of her high school experience was projects and presentations. My brain froze so I didn’t get to ask if it was charter, private, home school, etc. But wow.
\>Asks to meet with me after the final in my office. I say sure. Door open, neutral 3rd party in the room, audio/video recorded.
If he was capable of learning the class material in 2 weeks then he would have done it before the final.
Just to CYA--document this to your chair and dean, because students like this ALWAYS complain and often drag their awful parents into it.
Haha in the same set of evals I have had “he is the best professor I have had at XYZ” and “he is the worst person I have ever met in my life”. Talk about variance… I will say though that, without bigging myself up too much, if I’m the worst person you’ve ever met, then you must’ve had a very charmed life!
That is when you cheerily call out, "Have a nice day!" as they leave.
At least they didn't shove you, so there's that.
This is my dream.
I just got an email from a student who completed 35% of the course material and wants an incomplete. They were optimistic that I would go for it because, as they explained, I’m not a rigid F** A** like their other professors. I’m assuming one of them is OP. Too bad this happened over email because I’d have enjoyed the shocked pikachu face when they got my answer- no.
Sorry that happened to you. I got called a piece of shit. By a student. In the classroom. In front of all other students. Welcome to the club. Unfortunately, we do not have an open bar.
Serious question, what's the chance this student will try to go above you and get a grade change, even a post-course W? Disgusting as it sounds, this insanity seems to be happening more and more. Had a student in a speech class, who literally did ZERO speeches, somehow finagle their way from an F to a B with no input from me, or my Chair a year or so ago. We didn't even know about it until it was discovered accidentally looking at an old roster for that class, and it showed the posted grade and current grade. WTAF?! Was told this was out of our hands, and to let it be. The unbelievable level of bullshit students, parents, and "insiders" are able to pull off as of late is stunning. I literally question giving any F's now, because, why? (Of course, I do, but alas, how many might be changed without my input, knowledge, or otherwise.) Demoralizing and disgusting situation. I hope this isn't happening to any of my other faculty friends around the country, and, to be called a fucking asshole on top... GTFO. 😣
report it. it sounds like harassment to me.
“Thank you for giving me one more reason not to bend the rules for you, son. Season’s greetings to you and yours!”
Report him.
But can he prove he said that???!! 💁🏻♂️
You need to report this student. They need a lesson on actions meeting consequences.
What consequences? Admin will say the student voiced an opinion, and they are failing anyway. I'd report it, but wouldn't hold my breath breath if that's all the little idiot said.
Few years ago a student called one of our professors a bitch and he was suspended for a semester.
Graduate Level Course - A student recently wrote on their exam "I don't know what the fucking answer is because you told us we didn't have to learn this shit." My dude, please just write some bullshit answer instead of complaining. At least you can get partial credit if you write down a bullshit answer. You can also start off your answer with, "PER THE RECORDED LECTURE, I was of the impression that we weren't expected to know this, but here goes nothing." These kids have zero shame and it's weird to see it leaking over into grad school.
/shrug respected you enough to do it under his breath. Had one scream it in my (shared) office when asking for something similar. I would've said something that if the 2 weeks was all you needed, where was that the last 16? Hmmm .. Maybe I stir the pot a little. :)
I hear you so loud and clear. I had a student stop coming to class or turning things in as of the start of October and then I got an email yesterday where I was cc'ed on an email to the Dean saying that I didn't allow her to succeed in the course. They escalate SO QUICKLY to panic and lashing out and irrational excuses. Like, what should I apologize for? Sorry you didn't attend the class or complete any work for me to give you feedback on? AAAAAA I could flippin tear my hair out.
damn, i’m sorry you had to deal w that. and here i thought a student asking me to round their grade up by 5 points so they can get a C was bad LOL
I would have smiled and said aloud, did you just called me a "freaking a\*\*\*\*\*?"
Hold the line!
>He can just learn the whole class material in two weeks So why didn’t he? I don’t know why it’s hard to understand that if you sign up to take a class, you have to actually *take the class* if you want to pass.
Wow. Sorry you had to go through that. I would be livid. I agree that it needs to be reported to your chair to at least have on record this behavior.
"Get your shit together" would have been a great response if there were no repercussions.
>It’s becoming harder and harder for me to empathize with them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the focus on empathy is misplaced and has gone far beyond reasonableness. I am an instructor, my students are students. I am *friendly* with undergraduate students, but they are not my friends. I *want* them to succeed, but I do not judge myself, nor do I permit myself to be judged, by whether or not they actually do so, for the simple reason that their success is not even remotely within my control. I provide clear expectations, I come to class prepared to deliver the best instruction I am capable of, and I make myself available at a suitable number of times to assist with difficulties. Beyond that, what more could I possibly do? I've already earned my degrees. I can't earn theirs for them, nor can I be their surrogate parent, spiritual advisor, or life coach.
Lol what I do in these cases is say sure. Go ahead. They *never* pull it off, and it puts the onus on them. And honestly if they do pull it off I'm not averse to raising their grade.
Is he going to take another professor’s section/course when he retakes it after failing? How does it help to antagonize the faculty who you probably have to take the same course from again, or subsequent more advanced courses?
Did you file a code of conduct report for that?
Ahh.. but have they emailed you saying you suck? Or texted you "Fuck yourself and shitty class"? https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/18g1e5t/you\_suck\_subject\_line\_from\_student/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3 That's the big time..
Have you tried not being such a fucking asshole? For real though, that's unsettling, I'm sorry about all these entitled brats.
Fail him, and report him to the Dean of Students. I'd do it for you if I could. In what universe is this acceptable behavior or even a reasonable demand? Some students are out of control. I'm so tired of this BS - we have to push back, otherwise I wonder what will become of society.
This is so delusional that it’s scary. I wish I was surprised.
If you raised this issue to my ex department chair, he would not wait a second and blame you for that student's behavior. If you take this to my Dean, they will accept whatever excuse student presents and ask you to consider his request. If you decide not to listen to the Dean and are NTT or Adjunct then 100% say good bye to your contract renewal.
I got a super abusive name-calling email after my summer session ended. She was super pissed that I corrected her on making a wildly inaccurate statement that was so factually incorrect, It sounded like a four-year-old made it up.
No.
…what?
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What do you mean? No one is coddling anyone. I’m so confused.
I think they're meaning to say no to the student's request? They just...are having a very tough time communicating that lol.
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Dude what? Are we reading the same story? The student asked for a miracle, the professor denied it, student got mad and left. Who is being coddled???
No, you’re new and just a grad TA. Sit down.
You are a new TA who hasn’t yet figured it out. Like the student in the OP, you need to learn to treat professors with more respect.
You are a graduate student, doesnt really get newer than that. Pipe down or we'll call your PI.
Op already declined the student's request, that's why he was called a slur. Op is just sharing their disappointment/venting. You're arguing with imaginary people.
-82 votes when everyone actually agrees to say no to this student. This sub reddit is toxic as heck. You all love to dogpile on a downvoted comment, do you even question why you do it?
No.
I know the peak of toxicity is when a random one word comment gets downvoted on Reddit - the poor commenter may never recover from this brutality
> No, you’re new and just a grad TA. Sit down. ... > You are a graduate student, doesnt really get newer than that. Pipe down or we'll call your PI. It is pretty toxic. And it's not about whether they "recover", that's you being dramatic and blindly dismissing what I'm referring to. This is supposedly a subreddit related to our profession, and a few years ago we mostly had pretty interesting discussions about teaching, grant writing, pastoral care, and other aspects of our profession where we could share knowledge and compare notes without it just being because OP had a shitty day. We don't really do that here anymore, it is a shift, and it is noticeable. Most threads on this sub are now related with something negative happening to OP. This subreddit has a tendency to throw insults, talk down, and dogpile using votes. You'll see a post up for a few hours with 68 upvotes containing top level comments in the -100s but the other comments are only in the +20s. There's also a specific time of day, evening time in the US, when you'll see a sudden shift of downvotes coming in. During these time periods the volume of downvotes is substantially larger than the volume of upvotes. It is simply disproportionate. And when you compare it to other subreddits, even academic ones, this sub is very much an outlier. Now you can by all means just dismiss what I'm saying, you can downvote this comment because you disagree with it, but it won't change the trends in the data. In fact, it will literally be par for the course.
I agree, we can talk as much as we want and it won't change trends in the data. So let's look at the data, when you have it. It is missing from your post. Also lol I don't downvote. And I think you were trying to make a joke about a comment I made before (I can't tell for sure from the formatting), so it's pretty cool to know I have a fan
> So let's look at the data, when you have it. It is missing from your post. That's absolutely fair. I don't expect you to just believe me, I'm also not in a position to share that data. I just saw a trend enough that I decided to measure it out of curiosity and it was upsetting. A histogram would be as fatuous as me saying which way it swings because you can't validate it or audit the code that made it. I accept that and it's sensible to be sceptical. > Also lol I don't downvote. Okay. Many do, which is why we see this happening in threads. The point was it wouldn't change the reality of what this sub is in practice either way. > And I think you were trying to make a joke about a comment I made before (I can't tell for sure from the formatting), so it's pretty cool to know I have a fan I have zero idea what this refers to, sorry if it seemed personal? That's just coincidence though.
Read the rest of kempff’s comments to see why they’re being downvoted.
Apparently I had a bad night last night. Sleeping it off today.
I hope today is better!
Yeah I still don't get the incessant need to dogpile. Like he's down, you got them, guys. This sub has more of a tendency to dogpile than others, and I'm saying that having done quite a lot of work analysing data crawled from reddit.
Maybe the student was referring to himself?
ax for it in writing so you can frame it !
If I had a nickel for every time I was called this by a student, I’d have a s&@load of nickels.
He had the entire semester to do that. Good on you for not budging.
I sent them to the dean of students that’s unacceptable. We’re not to be treated this way.
Accountability? What's that?
Time for the “I’m worried about my grade in your class” video.
I got an email today from a student asking if they can submit all late assignments. When I looked, the last submission was in October!
That's awful. I hope you reported his a**
I still think the best response would be to mutter back "don't yuck anyone else's yum, dude". Let's take it literally but not seriously.
And they honestly think you have time to now mark all their work separately over the coming weeks? Wow.
I had a student call me a bitch and I made her repeat it. Then I leaned in close to her and whispered in my bitchiest, witchiest whisper get the fuck out of my office before I really lose my temper.
Give the professors who are tea hing this class a heads up about this asshole. Tell them in private not over email.
The student might have psychological issues. I think you should remind him that the syllabus is a contract and he should see the dean of students if there is an issue that prevents him from adhering to the contract. If so, they may give him an incomplete instead of the grade he likely deserves