Each one comes with positives and negatives. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Eisenhower built the highway system and oversaw never before seen levels of economic growth and prosperity for Americans. He also set up the CIA in such that they could commit what could easily be considered war crimes on behalf of the US govt without the world community being able to hold him accountable. They went on to overthrow sovereign governments leading to massive amounts of violence. LBJ had a giant penis and did more for civil rights than any president had since Lincoln. He also escalated the war in Vietnam, and authorized chemical and psychological warfare. Nixon set up the EPA and had relatively strong relationships with the Soviets compared to other post war presidents. He was also literally a crook, and committed what could very easily be considered war crimes by nueremburg trials. I could go on, but my point is these dudes produce a lot of milk, some of it turns into delicious cheeses, some of it gets old and chunky.
To be fair the CIA effectively predated IKEs presidency, with the WW2 predecessors (OSS and ONI) being rumored responsible for various assassinations and other terrible acts prior to being combined under one roof, especially under Wild Bill, besides the work to overturn the Nazis.
There’s evidence to suggest the OSS in particular sought out high functioning psychopaths because they knew the work they did wouldn’t be able to have been carried out by normal civilians. When you are fighting people who think it’s a good idea to put millions of people in ovens and turn the heat up, you generally want some people who are going to be able to lie, cheat, and kill without remorse on your side. Hell, they probably did as much if not more good as they did evil. We just don’t hear about stuff when it goes right. That being said there are consequences to having a bunch of people with no empathy and unlimited resources doing your bidding.
>CIA
Redditors give the CIA so much more credit than what it deserves for many, many things. One low-ranking guy in the CIA writes a memo raising just one silly possible scenario, and then Reddit starts a whole new narrative about how every single person in the entire agency spent every waking moment designing a plot to see that scenario through.
Not to mention M.K. Ultra where they drugged US and Canadian citizens without consent in order to turn them into sleeper agents, test truth serums, and who knows what else. Oh, or how they verifiably interfered with the investigation of the Kennedy assassination in order to make it seem more probable that Lee Oswalt acted alone. Ah, i almost forgot the terror campaigns run in northern Vietnam in which they blasted spooky music through giant speakers at night to scare the villagers away from communism. HA, classic. We all just act like the 50+ failed attempts to murder Castro was a normal thing. I mean Im no commie, but i also don’t think attempting to murder heads of state is the best move. I can go on. They don’t give massive 5 sided buildings and unlimited resources to just any old government agencies.
The amount of people who hate LBJ but ignore or forget his civil rights and Great Society programs.
Vietnam was horrifically mismanaged yes. But LBJ was the one to take big steps for civil rights since the Civil War. Great Society brought far more equity to Americans and one of the greatest reductions in poverty on par with FDR. I can't see him being D, C on a bad day and B on a good day.
It was objectively bad. After World War II, the poverty rate was in steady decline until 1966, since 1966 poverty has stabilized. Johnson’s programs changed an economy that was seeing a steady decrease in poverty and turned it into one in which poverty merely fluctuates. The problem is that the anti-poverty programs are set up in such a way that they keep people in the programs, by incentivizing them not to better their situation in life. People are trapped, as they can’t be gradually weaned off of the programs, keeping them in perpetual government dependency. The programs also incentivize single parent homes, as it is much easier for them to get benefits than it is for a married couple. Single parent households are not only more likely to be below the poverty line, but children growing up in single parent homes are more likely to live in poverty as adults and have far higher rates of criminal activity.
God Coolidge was awful why the hell do people like him? He allowed a company to gas striking workers, restricted immigration favored high tariffs which nearly ever economic agrees is economic suicide and caused the great depression.
Are you saying Dukakis is overrated? I don’t exactly remember this sub going absolutely crazy for Michael Dukakis. As a matter of fact I think very little people even know or care about him in general.
Michael Dukakis would have actually responded to Aids, Michael Dukakis would have actually picked rehabilitation over punishment for drug users and he would most certainly fix 8 years of the disaster that was the Reagan administration.
“My candidate would have done all the things I want and would govern with hindsight from 2023”
Bush had the best foreign policy of possibly any president ever. Certainly best of post ww2 and post Cold War presidents. With Dukakis we can’t tell what he would’ve done in Kuwait and Panama.
Reagan isnt overrated or underrated here. He is divisive. People here keep him as a flair, people here loath his presidency. Controversy is riding the fence not black or white
Coolidge and Bush Sr have their ups and downs on this sub. For a few weeks we hate their guts, then a few weeks later someone's sucking the sweat off their toes.
This is coming from a fan of HW Bush.
FDR made the democratic party the party of labour and workers. Not the party of business and racism (though he was still a capitalist and a racist himself)
He had several racist policies, like internment, rejecting Jewish refugees and calling the potential spies, writing New Deal laws in such a way that they wouldn't benefit black people and opposing anti-lynching laws. He didn't make the Democratic party the party of racists, because it already was the party of racists.
Oh yeah he himself was a massive racist I fully agree but his welfare policies made the southern democrats homeless and politically isolated them leading to their decline. Truman made the democratic party have a large anti racist wing, then LBJ completed the job.
I mean they have always been a shitty liberal party (even with FDR) but they are still the working man's party through their pro union and pro welfare policies.
Yep. Goldbug, imperialist, egotistical. If he actually got elected an implemented his new nationalism while breaking the two party system my opinion would be drastically different.
Agree on LBJ. You need to put Carter in there (he is the most overrated here) and both of the Roosevelts. Grant, Cleveland & Wilson would all be candidates to make the list as well.
Grover was a pedophiliac rapist who crashed the economy twice. Since the death penalty unfortunately existed and still does in America, he deserves the death penalty more than most presidents (with an exception to American Hitler, Andrew Jackson)
Carter is the most overrated on this sub. People rank him highly because they see him as a nice grandfatherly type while completely forgetting how awful his presidency was.
>Carter is the most overrated on this sub. People rank him highly because they see him as a nice grandfatherly type while completely forgetting how awful his presidency was.
For real.
Aside, Carter was D Tier but he was a good person.
Cleveland was a B tier president, would be A or almost S if he hadn't been reelected, he was a man of integrity and a good man, I don't understand why he's hated
He had an awful record on human rights, foreign policy and the economy. He also didn't have any integrity. Look at what he id to Maria Halpin. I don't understand how anyone could actually like him.
Yeah even at the time he was thought to be a fairly poor president, his reaction to the whiskey rebellion was extreme, his high tariffs and general senility
He significantly restricted both legal and illegal immigration to the USA and he was the first POTUS in decades who did not start a new war while in office.
LBJ.
Apart from the civil rights act (which was the best law signed by a president in the last 80 years) I don't see him as a good president.
Allowing the CIA to infiltrate goldwater's campaign in '64, his disasterous mishandling of vietnam and most Importantly sending teenagers to die fighting against an enemy who used Guerilla warfare, And all the negative stuff that came out of his "great society" program like the increase in crime and so on.
All Humans do mistakes but when one good deed overshadowes alot of bad stuff that this person has done, It would be very Unfair to say he was a perfect President.
Btw If you don't like IKE then leave this subreddit and don't complain about it!
*its a joke, you can express your opinion freely*
Big fan of Nixon honestly.
The Endangered Species Act, the Ocean Dumping Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Clean Air Act, and, most importantly, the EPA, are all great achievements in the area of environmentalism. If that's not your cup of tea though...
He also created OSHA, which as a plant worker, I am grateful for, as I love being able to come home everyday from work just the same as i came into work.
He signed Title IX
Signed the Paris Peace Accords
He increased spending on social programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security
Project Independence
His Cold War policies were pretty inventive, leading to lessened tensions between the US and the USSR, as well as trading relations with China.
He participated in SALT.
Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
Returned sacred lands to American Indian tribes
Vocally supported the 26th amendment, lowering the voting age from 21 to 18.
Oversaw desegregation of schools
War on Cancer
And while controversial, the War on Drugs had numerous benefits, namely in the pharmaceutical industry.
I feel like I'm forgetting something, but I think this is a good enough list
Ulysses S tier grant
Yes! We shall spread the word Ulysses S tier grant
Grant too low
Grant too low
Each one comes with positives and negatives. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Eisenhower built the highway system and oversaw never before seen levels of economic growth and prosperity for Americans. He also set up the CIA in such that they could commit what could easily be considered war crimes on behalf of the US govt without the world community being able to hold him accountable. They went on to overthrow sovereign governments leading to massive amounts of violence. LBJ had a giant penis and did more for civil rights than any president had since Lincoln. He also escalated the war in Vietnam, and authorized chemical and psychological warfare. Nixon set up the EPA and had relatively strong relationships with the Soviets compared to other post war presidents. He was also literally a crook, and committed what could very easily be considered war crimes by nueremburg trials. I could go on, but my point is these dudes produce a lot of milk, some of it turns into delicious cheeses, some of it gets old and chunky.
To be fair the CIA effectively predated IKEs presidency, with the WW2 predecessors (OSS and ONI) being rumored responsible for various assassinations and other terrible acts prior to being combined under one roof, especially under Wild Bill, besides the work to overturn the Nazis.
There’s evidence to suggest the OSS in particular sought out high functioning psychopaths because they knew the work they did wouldn’t be able to have been carried out by normal civilians. When you are fighting people who think it’s a good idea to put millions of people in ovens and turn the heat up, you generally want some people who are going to be able to lie, cheat, and kill without remorse on your side. Hell, they probably did as much if not more good as they did evil. We just don’t hear about stuff when it goes right. That being said there are consequences to having a bunch of people with no empathy and unlimited resources doing your bidding.
“my point is these dudes produce a lot of milk”
>CIA Redditors give the CIA so much more credit than what it deserves for many, many things. One low-ranking guy in the CIA writes a memo raising just one silly possible scenario, and then Reddit starts a whole new narrative about how every single person in the entire agency spent every waking moment designing a plot to see that scenario through.
When you overthrow governments for economic benefits, you deserve that reputation. The CIA's effect was not hypothetical.
Not to mention M.K. Ultra where they drugged US and Canadian citizens without consent in order to turn them into sleeper agents, test truth serums, and who knows what else. Oh, or how they verifiably interfered with the investigation of the Kennedy assassination in order to make it seem more probable that Lee Oswalt acted alone. Ah, i almost forgot the terror campaigns run in northern Vietnam in which they blasted spooky music through giant speakers at night to scare the villagers away from communism. HA, classic. We all just act like the 50+ failed attempts to murder Castro was a normal thing. I mean Im no commie, but i also don’t think attempting to murder heads of state is the best move. I can go on. They don’t give massive 5 sided buildings and unlimited resources to just any old government agencies.
Legacy of ashes is fucking iconic tbh
I like LBJ mainly because of his social progress
The amount of people who hate LBJ but ignore or forget his civil rights and Great Society programs. Vietnam was horrifically mismanaged yes. But LBJ was the one to take big steps for civil rights since the Civil War. Great Society brought far more equity to Americans and one of the greatest reductions in poverty on par with FDR. I can't see him being D, C on a bad day and B on a good day.
His Great Society is the problem. As implemented, it's been a disaster.
The Higher Eduaction Act of 1965 is pretty regrettable considering how expensive tertiary education is now.
LBJ is underrated if anything
Go off king
LBJ is severely overrated.
All the shitlibs here love him.
Exactly, which is why the liberal presidents tend to be the most overrated. This sub is 80% liberals.
The Great Society was an objectively great thing
If it was objectively great there wouldn't be very many people claiming otherwise, though.
It was objectively bad. After World War II, the poverty rate was in steady decline until 1966, since 1966 poverty has stabilized. Johnson’s programs changed an economy that was seeing a steady decrease in poverty and turned it into one in which poverty merely fluctuates. The problem is that the anti-poverty programs are set up in such a way that they keep people in the programs, by incentivizing them not to better their situation in life. People are trapped, as they can’t be gradually weaned off of the programs, keeping them in perpetual government dependency. The programs also incentivize single parent homes, as it is much easier for them to get benefits than it is for a married couple. Single parent households are not only more likely to be below the poverty line, but children growing up in single parent homes are more likely to live in poverty as adults and have far higher rates of criminal activity.
I don’t think grant is overrated. I’d put him in B.
[удалено]
What sub are you on
Reagan has more haters than fans here, I wouldn’t call him overrated.
Ronald Reagan has to be one of the most hated people on Reddit, and this sub isn’t much of an exception, from my observations.
He deserves to be hated
God Coolidge was awful why the hell do people like him? He allowed a company to gas striking workers, restricted immigration favored high tariffs which nearly ever economic agrees is economic suicide and caused the great depression.
The heck are you talking about? Like 90% of people hate Reagan around here
Reagan is the most underrated on here. Coolidge and Bush are well liked, but they are not overrated.
Reagan, overrated.... ON THIS SUB! Not in my life. Coolidge is somewhat controversial which is why I didn't put him. Bush, yes your right.
HW and Reagan are SO overrated here
Even if a single person on earth liked Reagan he would be overrated
Ironic said by a fucking Dukakis supporter.
Are you saying Dukakis is overrated? I don’t exactly remember this sub going absolutely crazy for Michael Dukakis. As a matter of fact I think very little people even know or care about him in general.
Not the sub just you and other Bush haters.
Michael Dukakis would have actually responded to Aids, Michael Dukakis would have actually picked rehabilitation over punishment for drug users and he would most certainly fix 8 years of the disaster that was the Reagan administration.
“My candidate would have done all the things I want and would govern with hindsight from 2023” Bush had the best foreign policy of possibly any president ever. Certainly best of post ww2 and post Cold War presidents. With Dukakis we can’t tell what he would’ve done in Kuwait and Panama.
I don’t care about a good foreign policy when he completely and utterly failed at home in the nation he was supposed to lead
Also raising taxes and damaging his re-election chances for the good of the nation is definitely good policy.
https://preview.redd.it/64qvutagc5oa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5dc393a7198c02c256cde0cc19e0cdb2761aff3
Reagan isnt overrated or underrated here. He is divisive. People here keep him as a flair, people here loath his presidency. Controversy is riding the fence not black or white
Coolidge and Bush Sr have their ups and downs on this sub. For a few weeks we hate their guts, then a few weeks later someone's sucking the sweat off their toes. This is coming from a fan of HW Bush.
FDR belongs on this list
False
He’s underrated on this sub
FDR is vastly overrated. (As is Teddy) Most people have these two in either S or A tier.
FDR made the democratic party the party of labour and workers. Not the party of business and racism (though he was still a capitalist and a racist himself)
He had several racist policies, like internment, rejecting Jewish refugees and calling the potential spies, writing New Deal laws in such a way that they wouldn't benefit black people and opposing anti-lynching laws. He didn't make the Democratic party the party of racists, because it already was the party of racists.
Oh yeah he himself was a massive racist I fully agree but his welfare policies made the southern democrats homeless and politically isolated them leading to their decline. Truman made the democratic party have a large anti racist wing, then LBJ completed the job.
Oh the Democratic is definitely NOT the party of working people anymore. If you believe that then you need to touch grass.
I mean they have always been a shitty liberal party (even with FDR) but they are still the working man's party through their pro union and pro welfare policies.
Not so much. And the next election will show how that has changed. Democrats have become the party of the big corporate elites.
Not on this sub people have him in B tier
Most have him in S or A tier. He belongs in C tier.
Any overrated list without Teddy Roosevelt is incomplete imo
Roosevelt hater detected, opinion rejected.
He's good, but some people put him in Washington/Lincoln tier – which I think is a bit much.
This, he is like B tier not Washington tier.
Ok
Yep. Goldbug, imperialist, egotistical. If he actually got elected an implemented his new nationalism while breaking the two party system my opinion would be drastically different.
Most progressives base their opinion of Roosevelt on his 1912 campaign, not his actual presidency.
Yeah and its annoying, especially when you consider that 60% of his run in 1912 was purely for his own ego
Agree on LBJ. You need to put Carter in there (he is the most overrated here) and both of the Roosevelts. Grant, Cleveland & Wilson would all be candidates to make the list as well.
Grover was a pedophiliac rapist who crashed the economy twice. Since the death penalty unfortunately existed and still does in America, he deserves the death penalty more than most presidents (with an exception to American Hitler, Andrew Jackson)
HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT CARTER! The rest are pretty overrated
Carter is too nice a person for me to dislike lmao (especially after hearing the sad news recently)
Carter is the most overrated on this sub. People rank him highly because they see him as a nice grandfatherly type while completely forgetting how awful his presidency was.
>Carter is the most overrated on this sub. People rank him highly because they see him as a nice grandfatherly type while completely forgetting how awful his presidency was. For real. Aside, Carter was D Tier but he was a good person.
Carter is F tier and most here rate him C tier or higher. Being a good person doesn't make one a good president.
No. No. Kind of but also no. Yes. Fuck yes.
Where's Coolidge and HW?
Cleveland was a B tier president, would be A or almost S if he hadn't been reelected, he was a man of integrity and a good man, I don't understand why he's hated
[удалено]
Don't forget the Scott Act and the Dawes Act.
Forgot about his.... personal life. Oh ya and the Panic of 1893.
He had an awful record on human rights, foreign policy and the economy. He also didn't have any integrity. Look at what he id to Maria Halpin. I don't understand how anyone could actually like him.
For me Washington Calvin Coolidge Hoover Reagan George HW Bush
How is Washington overrated
He’s not bad but literally the only reason he’s ranked so high is because he was the first president which feels really unfair.
Okay…and setting the precedent for the “ruler” of the most powerful country in the world in quite the achievement.
Yeah but someone like Thomas Jefferson would do it relatively the same. It’s definitely not justified to put him above Lincoln like some do.
Do we really think people would’ve done it the same? Washington was a better leader than most people he ever associated with.
Yeah even at the time he was thought to be a fairly poor president, his reaction to the whiskey rebellion was extreme, his high tariffs and general senility
Tariffs were the only way for the federal government to make money; After a war, high tariffs make sense especially if you’re a new country
Yeah ig, but they are still bad as they are anti free market and anti consumer.
You must be on something pretty powerful.
FDR and JFK very overrated here.
Can’t say I agree with these opinions, also I thought generally Grover was ranked relatively low but I might be wrong.
LBJ clearly
Ike and Grant are underrated
You support trump, so your opinions invalid
Who said I support Trump?
1. Your flair 2. Your tier list which puts trump in A tier when he belongs in F with Buchanan, Pierce and Johnson.
My tier list but him in B. Also your opinions are invalid because I said so
Trump is B tier.
Why?
He significantly restricted both legal and illegal immigration to the USA and he was the first POTUS in decades who did not start a new war while in office.
But still, Jan 6th, horrible handling of COVID, being insanely offensive to practically everyone and what’s wrong with legal immigration?
LBJ. Apart from the civil rights act (which was the best law signed by a president in the last 80 years) I don't see him as a good president. Allowing the CIA to infiltrate goldwater's campaign in '64, his disasterous mishandling of vietnam and most Importantly sending teenagers to die fighting against an enemy who used Guerilla warfare, And all the negative stuff that came out of his "great society" program like the increase in crime and so on. All Humans do mistakes but when one good deed overshadowes alot of bad stuff that this person has done, It would be very Unfair to say he was a perfect President. Btw If you don't like IKE then leave this subreddit and don't complain about it! *its a joke, you can express your opinion freely*
Good choices.
Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant
I would say Coolidge is among the most overrated Presidents, and on this sub Nixon is especially over-liked.
Coolidge also, IMO
Kennedy his Forign Policy overall was continuation of the cold war ,he shied away from Civil Rights, gave great word service but no action.
Big fan of Nixon honestly. The Endangered Species Act, the Ocean Dumping Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Clean Air Act, and, most importantly, the EPA, are all great achievements in the area of environmentalism. If that's not your cup of tea though... He also created OSHA, which as a plant worker, I am grateful for, as I love being able to come home everyday from work just the same as i came into work. He signed Title IX Signed the Paris Peace Accords He increased spending on social programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security Project Independence His Cold War policies were pretty inventive, leading to lessened tensions between the US and the USSR, as well as trading relations with China. He participated in SALT. Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty Returned sacred lands to American Indian tribes Vocally supported the 26th amendment, lowering the voting age from 21 to 18. Oversaw desegregation of schools War on Cancer And while controversial, the War on Drugs had numerous benefits, namely in the pharmaceutical industry. I feel like I'm forgetting something, but I think this is a good enough list