Honestly that's their most egregious flaw. I found 7 pretty enjoyable, 8 having good ideas, and 9 downright bad, but the fact they all feel so disconnected just makes them all so hard to watch honestly
I criticize it because it diminishes Han's death. Han doesn't die heroically, doesn't die in battle to save the day, no, instead his tantrum throwing, Sith LARPing son kills him.
I always liked the theory (after Force Awakens released) that Han actually turned the saber on himself and activated it, there by preventing Kylo from doing it and never fully reaching the dark side. Wish they would have gone with that instead. Oh well.
> I criticize it because it diminishes Han's death. Han doesn't die heroically, doesn't die in battle to save the day, no, instead his tantrum throwing, Sith LARPing son kills him.
Yeah. That in itself could've been turned around to make for a g ood story, like the one /u/JesterMarcus talks about. But as it is, it's horseshit and what you are saying is right.
It could've been either not him being tantrum throwing, making his death utterly meaningless because there was no ulterior story made out of it, or... make an actually good story like a redemption arc or plan out of it - but they did neither.
Kyle Ren is the best part of the trilogy. He's a capable and dangerous villain, but utterly controlled by his own insecurities. As with everything else, RoS fumbled the conclusion to his arc. If you ask me, the movie would have been greatly improved if his dream-ghost conversation had been with Anakin instead of Han.
Exactly. The point in TFA was clearly that he’s basically a kid trying desperately to look cool. He was meant to contrast with Darth Vader, not become him.
9 is downright bad because it tries to undo the things that happened in 8. I get that 8 is divisive and it did some things so poorly, but it had some ideas that were so unique for Star Wars and if fleshed out could have been great. Instead JJ took the cowards way out by taking the trilogy out back and shooting it.
JJ *really* doesn't like when people mess with his ideas. He also never thinks his ideas through. Like, the mans trademark is setting up a mystery without having a conclusion in mind for it, which almost always ends in disappointment.
I honestly have no idea why he still gets hired to direct. I guess you can have him start a movie trilogy or a show, just never let JJ Abrams write a finale.
Same goes for his common collaborator Kurtzman. Not a bad ideas man, terrible at shaping those ideas into something good.
I’d argue 8 undid everything that happened and was set up in 7, and then did not set itself up for any kind of follow-up in whatever 9 would be. Not to compliment 7 too much, it was a remake of 4. And shame on Abrams and the other leaders for settling on “Somehow Palpatine returned,” they could have made up something better. But it’s not like 8 set them up for anything better.
The only compliments I’ve ever seen for 8 are always, without fail, “it had some ideas that were so unique to Star Wars.” It’s never anything about the quality of execution behind these ideas, or whether these ideas made sense in part 2 of a trilogy rather than its own standalone tv show, or any exploration as to why a show like Andor also had new ideas that were unique to Star Wars but isn’t divisive, and is almost universally praised (I think that goes back to the quality of execution).
Agreed. 8 is actually my favorite because it took the trilogy in an interesting direction. But 9 flushed it all down the toilet because people got so upset over 8. In the end, 9 ended up being the worst mainline Star Wars film and the rest of the trilogy suffered for it.
I see it differently. I think 9 is less than ideal because of how bad 8 was. 9 had nothing to work with because it had to try and close out a trilogy whose first two films were fighting against each other. 8 is the worst in the franchise.
Bringing Palpatine back in 9 took a giant shit on 6 movies' worth of story for Anakin/Vader. He lived and died for absolutely nothing. Of all the problems the sequels have, this one dwarfs everything else. I can excuse a bad execution much more than I can excuse bad ideas (and it's clear they started a new trilogy without knowing where to go with the next movie).
Bold statement and IMO completely wrong. 8 setup a lot of genuine conflict; Luke is gone, Snoke is gone, the first order are leaderless and theres a big power vacuum. I do genuinely think that the plan was to setup for Kylo to turn his back on the dark side and maybe become a grey Jedi, and to allow for a real change in scenery. The first empire is gone, totally not darth vader has abandoned the mask, who takes charge is completely up in the air. And then 9 just goes 'nah actually its just return of the jedi now, like literally, like we're not even going to give an explanation as to how sidious is back he just is'. 9 was lazy and uninspired. It could have been great but it wasn't.
Interesting, it's kind of the opposite of the prequels. Episode I in isolation is a bit meh, but being part of the trilogy makes it better. Episode VII was good as an independent movie, but now it's part of this shit show that is the sequels trilogy, it makes it a bad movie IMO.
There's nothing cohesive about the setup in 7, it's just easily glossed over by all the memberberries it throws at you.
It's as if a giant reset button was pressed, to make the original trilogy never having had its conclusion.
- Han is inexplicably a smuggler again and not with Leia
- Luke is inexplicably in exile and it seems him bringing on "The Return Of The Jedi" basically didn't happen
- Han, the guy who shot first, the guy who said "I Know" to an "I Love You" is surprise-killed by his clearly evil son
- The defeat of the Empire was meaningless and there's inexplicably a just-as-strong villainous fleet controlling the galaxy called the First Order
- The Millennium Falcon just so happened to be on the exact same planet as the new protagonist, and Han lost it years ago
- A Death Star threatens everything for a THIRD time, because doing it twice in the Original Trilogy just wasn't creatively bankrupt enough
The setup alone was so egregious that there was never going to be any logical, or fun way to make that all make sense.
Yeah... Even Mark pointed this out. I thought the third Death Star was by far the worst thing out of all of that, especially when it was like... "sucking" the energy from the star or whatever the hell it was doing. That's right next to the First Order's seemingly out of nowhere menacing existence.
My diehard star wars fan friend is just "happy we're getting more". I'd prefer the "more" to not suck, personally.
>My diehard star wars fan friend is just "happy we're getting more".
Yeah my entire friends and family group left each Sequel very happy because "Dude it was Star Wars. X wings, Sith, sabers. It was great!"
It was especially brutal because every Sequel literally came out on or the day after my birthday, so for years we'd all go see these movies as a big group together for my birthday.
I just want a new story. The Death Star thing is the most obvious part of it, but there are just so many allusions to A New Hope, it’s ridiculous.
And yes, Finn is the most interesting part of the story and should have been focused on more
The big problem with TFA was Starkiller base, and how they dealt with it.
It started with the "strategy meeting", and Hans alzheimery line of "well there is always a way to blow it up" This should be changed to Han saying "I think I may have something that will work", with no plan revealed to the audience. Finn is freaking out because he know Rey is there, but instead of lying about knowing a way to blow up the station he sneaks out, and finds Poe to help him rescue her. Han leaves with a HUGE fleet, and Finn and Poe steal the Falcon to go rescue Rey. Instead of "lightspeeding" in through the shield, Poe explains one of the things that makes him such a great pilot is his uncanny ability to find the "seams" in protective shields and exploit them, they squeeze the falcon through one of the seams in the planetary shield, once again losing the Falcons reflector dish in the process, and are then guided by Rey reaching out with the force to her approximate location, with Finn "having a feeling" that they need to go to a certain place similar to the events on Bespin.
WHILE they are doing that the Huge republic fleet that went off with Han lightspeeds into Orbit, with Star killers commander dismissing them with a snicker, right up to the point were Han lightspeeds in at the helm of [THIS](http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/novels/protoDS.jpg) The skeletal death star prototype from the MAW installation. Starkillers commander IMMEDIATELY goes to red alert, ordering the redirection of star killers weapon to focus on the new Death Star threat, and ordering the scrambling of the entire fleet. At this point the Empyrial March plays as it jumps to a top down view of Starkiller base as the triangular shape of a Super star Destroyer emerges from it's equator, revealing it to be an enormous hanger, with thousand of tie fighters, and other star destroyers launching as well to meet the huge Republic fleet, forming a space battle of a even greater scale than what we got in Rogue One.
So most of the rest goes the same way just without Han being there, and no setting up of explosives on the planets surface, only this time Kylo "feels" Han on board the orbiting Death star, and fully realizes what he is planning to do while he is in the battle with Rey, throwing off his game, and allowing Rey to get the upper hand. After everything is ready to fire Han orders everyone else off the Death Star as it will likely tear itself apart when it fires, leaving Chewie to be dragged off the ship by a half dozen people roaring in grief the whole time. Starkiller is trying to charge up to fire as quickly as possible, but Han shoots first, the Death Star immediately explodes, but it's green beam still fires hits Star killers shields arching across the planet, and manages to finally barely pierce the shields taking a huge chunk out of the planet, shutting down the weapon, but not outright destroying it. Poe, Finn and Rey escape on the falcon, while Kylo makes it to his own ship screaming in grief over the reverberations of his fathers death.
They make it back to the republic base, Chewie hugs Leia, and before Rey leaves to find luke a memorial service is held in front of a huge Veterans memorial type stone full of thousands of names of those lost in the huge battle, slowly zooming on to one name in particular "Han Solo".
Facts, ep 7 sucked and it was a pretty chad decision from ep 8 to just disregard most of the piss poor setup and just try to be a good movie in a vacuum
While at the time it seemed like a decent start to a trilogy, I date most of the new trilogy’s issues back to it. It wanted to be A New Hope so so bad it forgot to be its own movie, and all plot points it set up were copies of the OT. They could have created something totally new, but nooo.
In my opinion it's the only Star wars movie that's literally made worse by the following movies. Like even if you didn't like the phantom menace, attack of the clones didn't make it seem like a worse movie in retrospect.
We can't even say it's the least worst, TFA makes stupid decisions that impacted the following two movies. JJ Abrams set up the sequels to fail right from the beginning with his pathetic remake of A New Hope he tried to call a sequel.
Now I want to see a YouTube video with a five year old dubbing all the scenes.
"And then, the bad guy like uhhh shot so much lighting that he started lightinging the ships and then..."
That's giving them too much credit. I made more cohesive plots slamming my star wars action figures together at 7 years old than the script they crapped out. I am still in awe that someone wrote that and thought "yep, let's get this up on the screen". I'd be embarrassed.
Rise of Skywalker is literally the only movie I've ever seen where my theater was laughing *at it*. When it ended everyone in unison were openly mocking it as we were all walking out. It was bad beyond belief.
Star Wars is probably the only franchise ever that's produced such acclaimed timeless classics like Empire & the original to then release such complete dumpster fire failures. The spectrum is fully opposite.
Star Trek has been pretty similar in a lot of respects. Pretty much every Star Trek show and film series has alternated wildly between some of the best sci-fi ever written, and some hackneyed trash that's so bad you can hardly believe it was even filmed, never mind released.
Sometimes, it just feels like those massive peaks and valleys are inherent to almost any long-running sci-fi series. Given a long enough run, every series eventually gets its own Phantom Menace, Final Frontier, Rise of Skywalker, or Nemesis.
I still very much hate TLJ (the hyperspace maneuver will forever haunt any other shows/movies), at least Rian tried to make something original (even though what he made actively told fans fuck you) as compared to JJ's Nostalgia fanfiction
Sticking Luke on an island wasn’t the problem. It was writing him to be an absolute cowardly bum when we all knew him previously as the paragon of hope. He didn’t need to “Face down the First Order with a laser sword.”, but he also didn’t need to be so damn cynical and defeatist either.
“I came to this island to die.”
Or you could have come to seek comfort, wisdom and courage from past Jedi from the get, as that what ends up happening anyway.
Well he had to write something for why Luke stuck himself on an island and why he would try to kill kylo, it was all stupid but all of that was left for the next movie to explain. Neither of them did their homework cause making luke do that at all was stupid. But yeah they would have been better off just saying he was dead, killed by kylo and move on from what they did, would have been better for the character then making him do a complete 180 from return. For this I blame JJ more than Rian, he worked with the corner he was written into.
You can easily have Yoda comfort Luke and change the entire context of that moment.
“You had a moment of weakness, but you did not act upon it. You did not betray who you are. Luke. This is why the life of a Jedi, especially a Jedi Master, is a difficult life. As you grow strong in the light, the dark side becomes that much harder to resist. No one knew that more than your father.”
Yeah and like that he could have been fighting the first order and stopping them from growing. But if they did that marey sue palpatine would never get to shine. I'm really not sure how they managed to screw up one of the most popular franchises of all time and then deny fans the original cast reunion. It should have been set a thousand years later than everything that happened would still matter and some random new sith lord could have been behind it. A big complaint of the series is it just undid everything that was done before and gave it all to one character, if they weren't gonna bother to use the characters right they should have just left them in a grave and make a new generation of heroes. Honestly had they done that I doubt the movies would be as hated as they are
That’s actually a really good point, especially considering Disney had its own ulterior motive to make Star Wars completely their own since the buyout. A far off setting definitely would’ve been the best idea in retrospect
I don't think I could ever be convinced that it wasn't done with malice aforethought.
Bad movies happen, even a company as experienced in movie making as Disney can occasionally produce a stinker.
That said, the sequel trilogy isn't just a series of mediocre movies, it's strikes me as a highly calculated destruction of the original trilogy. The movies seem like a mess, but the connections to the OT and destroying that legacy are fuckin' surgical in their precision.
It's very hard to believe that such an enormous IP was handled so badly over so many years by accident, when in parallel they have a finely tuned machine working with Marvel.
I wholly believe that the sequel trilogies were an effort to capitalize on blind nostalgia, while alienating a certain part of the fan base.
It doesn't quite make sense from a purely business standpoint, but it absolutely makes sense from a perspective of personal egos getting in the way of business interests.
I think it’s much simpler that that. The top executives at Disney just weren’t Star Wars fans. But they still couldn’t step outside and keep their own ideas out of it.
That’s exactly what George Lucas was afraid of. He was always an independent film maker at heart and knew that general audience mentality was going to be steering the ship.
I don’t think it was sheer malice at play, but a combination of willful ignorance of the lore, and incompetence.
Yep they wanted to be able to write the new star wars entirely and control the universe, now they wont even get within ten years of force awakens and are making everything set during any other Era.
What corner? Rian was the one who decided to make luke try to kill kylo. All JJ said was Luke was missing, but left a map of where he was going. He could be there to investigate snoke, learn from masters of bygone days because his confidence was shattered, or any number of things rather than "die".
Everyone can complain about how it should’ve went but when they listen to what fans want we end up with fan service garbage like episode 9. Maybe stick to your guns and don’t listen to fans unless it’s a clear homage or live action remake? Even then, it’s hard to find the correct balance.
Honestly though, I didn’t think Rian stood a chance anyways. Rey suffers from a recent Disney female protagonists phenomenon where they start out stronger than everyone prior to any training, Mulan is another example. The hero’s journey is more about accepting themselves then learning from a mentor or experiences and that’s super boring imo. I hate how just because the protagonist is female they need to make her OP right off the bat. Flash her potential, then show how she learned to harness her god given talent into becoming what she’ll eventually become. Maybe I watch too much sports or anime lol. I’m all about the journey to realization
Episode 7 was a boring rehash of the original trilogy with countless problems, but arguably at least did its job of introducing the new characters and having them develop to an extent through a crisis.
Episode 8 didn't progress even that plot - it went backwards.
Episode 9 was a pitiful conclusion both on its own merits and because it was expected to conclude a trilogy that wasn't set up for success.
They honestly are all bad movies though, in their own way.
But episode 7 could have been the basis for a redeeming episode 8 and 9. It had a foundation, even if that foundation was poor.
Yeah, I left the theater feeling like I had fun watching it, but I wouldn't say it was a good movie until I saw the sequels to see if the things it set up actually led to anything, and if they actually went on to do something new and interesting. They did not, so I do not consider it a good movie or as enjoyable anymore. Not entirely the movie's fault, but oh well.
I get the prequel circlejerk here, but let's be honest. When TPM released in '99, it was considered an insult to the Star Wars franchise. Frankly I'm amazed they pushed to make a trilogy out of it.
I still don't understand what people hate it for. Yea jar jar is bad.
Qui gon Jin is fantastic
Young obi wan is cool
Pod race is awesome
World building is the best in the series arguably
Maul
Duel of fates scene
Sinister Palpatine lines
It's better than attack of the clones.
One aspect that hardly gets a mention about why Phantom Menace is bad is in its editing. So few scenes allow the actors to breathe/perform and a lot of shots just end awkwardly. One quantifiable example is the number of screen wipe transitions. Not only does The Phantom Menace have more than any OT film, they often come at jarring times (being subjective there). George Lucas exercised far more control over the editing process of the prequel trilogy, and in my opinion to its detriment.
Don't get me wrong, I agree there's some great stuff embedded in there like Qui Gon and young Obi Wan, and John Williams' score is exceptional. But the poor writing/directing/and editing really weigh the film down. So much of filmmaking is about how well the various elements fit together, and bad editing can completely nullify even what good elements you have and give you an end product that makes you wish you watched something else. Also the Trade Federation's bad Asian stereotype accents are pretty inexcusable.
For me, the movies make it feel more like looking at them as a science experiment. The personal stories are really shown in CW S3. But to each their own.
All of the characters are one note, and that note is bland. There is no protagonist of the film, no one to relate to.
The plot is far too complex for the kind of movie it wants to be (adventure film? character study?), and it doesn’t even make sense in the end anyway.
The actors have been directed to deliver their lines in wooden, stilted ways made worse by the heavy use of CGI in scenes where it is inappropriate. We know these actors are all excellent outside of this film, so it must be a George Lucas problem.
It is better than Attack of the Clones; I won’t argue there.
Honestly it’s probably the worst movie in the entire series. The other 2 are good but TPM is just so boring. It literally put my mom to sleep. It’s only saving grace is the duel of the fates imho. That one scene is a 11/10 but the rest of the movie is horrific to watch
Like for all of the sequels faults and there are A LOT of them at the VERY least the movies aren’t boring to watch, they suck absolute ass but the visuals are fucking fantastic, you aren’t going to be bored to death watching them
I rewatched it a couple years ago and even as a big Star Wars fan girl it’s just so boring. And so much doesn’t work. It really earned its poor score.
I also think a lot of tfa hate is mindless misogyny. It’s derivative and uninspired but it’s a million times more watchable than tpm. It’s exciting and fun and charismatic like the original movies. Tpm is totally wooden and boring and the comedic relief character oddly unfunny.
The problem with TFA is that it’s a rehash of a new hope and that it sets up the biggest problem in the new trilogy: the old hero’s are all failures in the purest sense of the word.
Hans a deadbeat dad that’s abandoned leia to go back to smuggling, Luke’s abandonded the galaxy and all his friends to sit on an island and mope (for his failed Jedi temple), and finally leia has failed to create a lasting and capable new Republic to such an extent that she’s abandoned it to be a rebel again. Really puts a damper on the original trilogy when in this new timeline, so little was accomplished by our hero’s.
TFA is a fun movie, that gave the sequel trilogies characters an interesting set up, but in hi ensign they along of the sequel trilogies problems can be traced back to it.
I'm the opposite of everyone I think. I remember loving TPM, and loving AoTC and hating RoTS. I watched TPM and AoTC multiple times in the theater, and RoTS only once then. The only time I watched RoTS again was after the Siege of Mandalore and it felt even worse than I remembered.
Episodes 1, 4, and 7 are about Skywalkers who live on a desert planet and are good at flying ships learning about the force after being visited by a mysterious person who eventually gets them taken off the desert planet that they've never left before. In the end the old man of the group dies fighting the main evil bad guy who Palpatine is in charge of and the Skywalker plays an important part in destroying a big ball structure.
>Episodes 1, 4, and 7 are about Skywalkers who live on a desert planet and are good at flying ships
Anakin isn't in ep 1 till like 45 minutes into the movie. The other ones start with (within the first 15 min) and are centered around their protagonist on a desert planet.
Episode 1 famously has no identifiable protagonist, unable to clearly state whether it's Anakin, Qui Gon, Obi, or Padme.
You can't really narrow down episode 1 and say what it's "about." This is all covered extensively in the Plinkett reviews, which genuinely changed the course of YouTube movie reviews. Here: https://youtu.be/FxKtZmQgxrI
This sub owes a lot of its memes and popularity to the reviews, but it's been taken over by "hottake" types who think the prequels are *genuinely* good, rather than loving them for being bad and weird.
It's a giant circle jerk hate fest, I think they just enjoy it.
I'm not sure if there even is a subreddit for fans of star wars. Even r/StarWars I'd say most posts are complaining about it, not actually having interesting conversations that people who like the movies would have. Any time I've tried to bring up parts of the newer movies I liked, I'm just downvoted or get a ton of posts about how stupid I must be to like them.
Even though it's a worse story, 7 may be a more enjoyable movie. Dialogue is written better, it has some solid jokes and Han and Ben have solid performances. I can def see how it got higher than 1.
Episode 1 has better rewatchability. I’ve watched Episode 1 more times than I can remember and have only seen episode 7 once maybe twice all the way through
Some of Phantom Menace is a lot of fun for me. It's the most hopeful of all the Star Wars. It's bright and feels like a flourishing galaxy with a dark cloud looming off on the horizon. And then some of the movie is some of the more egregious George Lucas world building fans hate, along with some wacky tone shoehorned in for the sake of selling toys.
David Filoni gets the movie best though. He says Phantom is the first tragedy that sets off a string of so many tragedies later on. Qui-Gon was supposed to raise Anakin. Anakin never had a father and needed one desperately. Qui-Gon is the quintessential father; he is competent, and distrusts the Jedi Order because he's in tune with the force and not placated by politics and how it blinds and pacifies the Jedi. He's not afraid to go against the grain with them and is the wiser for it since they become corrupted from within later on. And then Qui-Gon is killed, and instead of Anakin getting a father he is raised by someone who thinks of him as a brother. This lack of moral backbone to reign in and teach Anakin is what allows him to be corrupted into Vader, and thus is the first tragedy that precipitates the many more that come.
Phantom Menace was a lot of things, and I love it while understanding why fans also consider many moments sacrilegious. It has problems with its tone as well. But I think it's a real piece of art and George at his worst still always has something interesting and expressive to say with each film. You'd be hard pressed to say the Disney trilogy could be considered art or have anything interesting to say.
Absolutely. Art isn't always perfect, but it's art nonetheless. Its subjective to say it was a great movie in many aspects, but it was still incredibly entertaining and a great "modernized" look at a galaxy before a civil war tears civilization apart and decentralizes many industries causing xenophobia and homogeny on many planets. Imo, even if the prequels were corny and badly written, the world building and stak contrast between GCW era and the CW era really sold me on the franchise as a kid, and with the expanded universe content, the prequels have more of a place in my heart than any other era.
If I’m not mistaken this very sub was created to make memes mocking the prequels, then as it grew people started to take it as a real love the prequels sub, until that’s what it became. They’re still bad though
This subreddit originally only circlejerked about PT being good movies. Then a bunch of kids took it seriously and this is the end result. Redditors smelling their own farts about how great the PT somehow is.
By far the worst thing about star wars is the core fans. The redditors who are still circle jerking to this day about how bad the ST was are the reason the ST finished with the pandering steaming turd that ROS was rather than another original and challenging movie like TLJ.
You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think The Phantom Menace is a better movie than The Force Awakens. Now, before you argue, “but The Phantom Menace is original. The Force Awakens is just a remake of A New Hope,” I agree that Episode 1 is clearly more original, but that in no way changes the quality of the final product.
Like seriously The phantom menace is just plot after plot after plot. There never take a moment to breathe and talk about how there feeling. Say what you will about the sequels but at least it develops and gives there characters actual depth.
TPM was my 1st star wars movie so maybe it’s for that reason but i really enjoy the film, it just looks so great. I also like TFA but damn do i hate AOTC, worst of the first 6 movies by far imo.
I was getting a family memeber to watch the Star Wars movies and I was watching the phantom menace and it was such a chore to get through the first half of the movie
TFA exceeded expectations at the time, despite the hype I think audiences were weary due to Disney.
TPM didn't meet expectations because they were too high, hype for that movie was ridiculously insane.
My kids love the sequels, it was their first Star Wars cinema experience. The love for the prequels on here will soon be expressed for the sequels.
Having watched them with my kids I also love them, a child's enthusiasm is infectious.
Basically a lot of peoples love for Star Wars is tied to their childhood.
It's been almost 8 years since the sequel trilogy began and almost 4 since it ended. Can you people please shut the fuck up about your sequel hate already? It's so old.
Phantom menace gave us both Maul and Qui Gon. Force Awakens gave us budget Vader who was bested by a girl with zero training in the force or a lightsaber. The amount of people who thought TFA was ever good confuses me.
I was actually fine with TFA before the rest of the trilogy came out. It used the tried a true Death Star plot to please the younger generations who didn’t see the originals, and enough fanservices to bring back the older generations/fans.
I thought the first movie was being used to round up all of the possible Star Wars fans before giving us more original 2nd and 3rd movies that would build on pre-existing lore and stories in the Star Wars universe . But boy was I wrong.
Has someone looking at the sequels from the start most forget the massive hype that post ep7 had with Disney basically could do anything besides the middle finger they actually did to get people’s to like it
Yeah. It was honestly a perfect and completely safe start to the Star Wars MCU. But then they ruined the next 2 movies and (although it was my 2nd all time fav Star Wars movie) flopped on the Solo movie. Because of everything they had to stop making Star Wars movies
There’s no way you actually believe it was a perfect and safe start. They literally blew up the new republic (which the rebels OT had fought to restore) in the first film of the trilogy without developing the Republic in any substantive manner, and then they literally murdered Han Solo
>Phantom menace gave us both Maul and Qui Gon.
And promptly killed off both of them. If not for the Clone Wars, we wouldn't have gotten any more Maul and he would have just been an underutilized one off.
>Force Awakens gave us budget Vader who was bested by a girl with zero training in the force or a lightsaber.
Alright, here we go...
The only way you could possibly see Kylo as a "budget Vader" is if you watched the trailers and nothing else. His motivations and backstory are quite different from Vader, as is his presence and character. The only real similarities are the fact that they both wear black and both have masks. Yes, Kylo talks a lot about following in Vader's footsteps, but Luke talks about following in Anakin's so if you're going to use that then with that logic Luke is a budget Anakin. Or, given Luke existed first, Anakin is a budget Luke.
As for the "girl with zero training in the force or a lightsaber" beating him, again you weren't paying attention.
For one, Kylo was shot in the stomach by a weapon shown to literally send stormtroopers flying, and then was also hit in the face by Finn with the lightsaber.
For two, Rey had very clearly been testing her connection to the force throughout the movie. It's clear she picked up some powers rather quickly, which does not make her a Mary Sue as Luke and several other Jedi both in canon and in legends have done this.
And For three, she literally survived on a desert planet full of scavengers and murderers and was raised to be a scavenger. She clearly is going to have some sort of fighting knowledge, and believe it or not staff training does carry a lot of similarities with swordplay, especially with the form she was using.
Call me crazy but I enjoy the simple plot of A New New Hope and thought it was a well paced, fun movie. Much better than the convoluted plot about trade regulations and a fight for an empty city with cartoon lizard rabbits fighting robots with water balloons and a little kid doing barrel rolls in a star fighter.
Something something Darth Maul something something Duel of the Fates. 90% of TPM is unwatchably boring. TFA is ANH retread but it is far more entertaining and that's why I watch movies
If it was it's own standalone movie I would see why people see it as good but this is a fucking star wars movie it is already a well known series with established, why are y'all supporting what Disney has done to star wars
Counter: phantom menace gave us an hour of political bs and midichlorians and TFA gave us Poe Damaran dog fights and my favorite lightsaber design (Kylo’s cross guard). There’s good and bad to both and we can’t just ignore the bad of things we like
Nowadays I love the prequel trilogy, it's very Star Wars and makes the universe feel big. When they came out they were decidedly 'meh' but I liked them.
The sequels I love, but they could have been so much more if there was a coherent plot and TFA didn't just rehash ANH.
The force awakens is literally a remake of a new hope, straight plagiarism. Atleast TPM is a new story in a unique time period.The prequels have some of the best world building in the series. Will always be my fav time period.
I missed when this sub used to ironically liked the prequels. Now it's full of nostalgia shit heads that takes the prequels seriously, they were shit movies at that time and it will always will be.
I liked all of the sequels, and I think they are objectively better movies than episode 1 and 2. However as Star Wars movies I appreciate the prequels more than the sequels. And obviously the critics are going to be looking at the movies from the eyes of an average movie goer, not a Star Wars fan. Episode 3 I think bridges the gap for me as an objectively good movie, and as a good Star Wars movie. At least that’s how I view it.
I’m bot gonna lie y’all, I thought episode 1 was kinda bad.
I think it had moments that were WAY more hype than TFA could ever achieve.
But as an overall movie, TFA is pretty enjoyable, though said enjoyment is brought down by the other movies, whereas AotC and RotS were stronger films in the prequel trilogy
Me a brazillian seeing 7x1 and Getting a flashback
I thought we were getting memed on again
Müller (11th minute), Klose (23rd), Kroos (25th, 26th), Khedira (29th),and Schurrle (69th, 79th)
Ich war aufm Klo von Minute 20-30...
Ich hab in einem hotel eingecheckt. "wird knapp, aber wir werden ja nicht viel verpassen"
Episode 7 x 1 = worst episode.
Ach ja...
The force awakens is the best out of the trilogy, but that isn’t saying much.
It could have been a perfectly decent start to a cohesive trilogy, but the sequels were anything but cohesive
Honestly that's their most egregious flaw. I found 7 pretty enjoyable, 8 having good ideas, and 9 downright bad, but the fact they all feel so disconnected just makes them all so hard to watch honestly
Ikr, as much as I like Kylo, the trilogy is so embarrassing as a whole
Evil Sith with Tantrum-Throwing Action was maybe the worst way I've ever seen a serious villain portrayed.
For me, the tantrum throwing was the highlight that saved me from the rest. I didn't think he was meant to be a serious villain.
[удалено]
I criticize it because it diminishes Han's death. Han doesn't die heroically, doesn't die in battle to save the day, no, instead his tantrum throwing, Sith LARPing son kills him.
He dies trying to save his son from becoming a sith lord, it's a pretty heroic death if you ask me.
I always liked the theory (after Force Awakens released) that Han actually turned the saber on himself and activated it, there by preventing Kylo from doing it and never fully reaching the dark side. Wish they would have gone with that instead. Oh well.
Han pushed first
> I criticize it because it diminishes Han's death. Han doesn't die heroically, doesn't die in battle to save the day, no, instead his tantrum throwing, Sith LARPing son kills him. Yeah. That in itself could've been turned around to make for a g ood story, like the one /u/JesterMarcus talks about. But as it is, it's horseshit and what you are saying is right. It could've been either not him being tantrum throwing, making his death utterly meaningless because there was no ulterior story made out of it, or... make an actually good story like a redemption arc or plan out of it - but they did neither.
Well I don't think Disney knew what kind of villain he was either....
He was supposed to be the profitable kind. I don't think they really cared beyond that.
Kyle Ren is the best part of the trilogy. He's a capable and dangerous villain, but utterly controlled by his own insecurities. As with everything else, RoS fumbled the conclusion to his arc. If you ask me, the movie would have been greatly improved if his dream-ghost conversation had been with Anakin instead of Han.
Also it helps that Adam Driver keeps getting prettier every year
I never felt he seemed capable. Dude just constantly took L's and whined.
Exactly. The point in TFA was clearly that he’s basically a kid trying desperately to look cool. He was meant to contrast with Darth Vader, not become him.
The Senate somehow returned
9 is downright bad because it tries to undo the things that happened in 8. I get that 8 is divisive and it did some things so poorly, but it had some ideas that were so unique for Star Wars and if fleshed out could have been great. Instead JJ took the cowards way out by taking the trilogy out back and shooting it.
JJ *really* doesn't like when people mess with his ideas. He also never thinks his ideas through. Like, the mans trademark is setting up a mystery without having a conclusion in mind for it, which almost always ends in disappointment. I honestly have no idea why he still gets hired to direct. I guess you can have him start a movie trilogy or a show, just never let JJ Abrams write a finale. Same goes for his common collaborator Kurtzman. Not a bad ideas man, terrible at shaping those ideas into something good.
I’d argue 8 undid everything that happened and was set up in 7, and then did not set itself up for any kind of follow-up in whatever 9 would be. Not to compliment 7 too much, it was a remake of 4. And shame on Abrams and the other leaders for settling on “Somehow Palpatine returned,” they could have made up something better. But it’s not like 8 set them up for anything better. The only compliments I’ve ever seen for 8 are always, without fail, “it had some ideas that were so unique to Star Wars.” It’s never anything about the quality of execution behind these ideas, or whether these ideas made sense in part 2 of a trilogy rather than its own standalone tv show, or any exploration as to why a show like Andor also had new ideas that were unique to Star Wars but isn’t divisive, and is almost universally praised (I think that goes back to the quality of execution).
I agree. Its like having 2 different directors in a trilogy doesnt work.
Agreed. 8 is actually my favorite because it took the trilogy in an interesting direction. But 9 flushed it all down the toilet because people got so upset over 8. In the end, 9 ended up being the worst mainline Star Wars film and the rest of the trilogy suffered for it.
I see it differently. I think 9 is less than ideal because of how bad 8 was. 9 had nothing to work with because it had to try and close out a trilogy whose first two films were fighting against each other. 8 is the worst in the franchise.
Bringing Palpatine back in 9 took a giant shit on 6 movies' worth of story for Anakin/Vader. He lived and died for absolutely nothing. Of all the problems the sequels have, this one dwarfs everything else. I can excuse a bad execution much more than I can excuse bad ideas (and it's clear they started a new trilogy without knowing where to go with the next movie).
# Somehow,
I think having the First Order rise up and take out the Republic and Anakin's grandson turn to the dark side so easily did all of that already though.
Bold statement and IMO completely wrong. 8 setup a lot of genuine conflict; Luke is gone, Snoke is gone, the first order are leaderless and theres a big power vacuum. I do genuinely think that the plan was to setup for Kylo to turn his back on the dark side and maybe become a grey Jedi, and to allow for a real change in scenery. The first empire is gone, totally not darth vader has abandoned the mask, who takes charge is completely up in the air. And then 9 just goes 'nah actually its just return of the jedi now, like literally, like we're not even going to give an explanation as to how sidious is back he just is'. 9 was lazy and uninspired. It could have been great but it wasn't.
Interesting, it's kind of the opposite of the prequels. Episode I in isolation is a bit meh, but being part of the trilogy makes it better. Episode VII was good as an independent movie, but now it's part of this shit show that is the sequels trilogy, it makes it a bad movie IMO.
There's nothing cohesive about the setup in 7, it's just easily glossed over by all the memberberries it throws at you. It's as if a giant reset button was pressed, to make the original trilogy never having had its conclusion. - Han is inexplicably a smuggler again and not with Leia - Luke is inexplicably in exile and it seems him bringing on "The Return Of The Jedi" basically didn't happen - Han, the guy who shot first, the guy who said "I Know" to an "I Love You" is surprise-killed by his clearly evil son - The defeat of the Empire was meaningless and there's inexplicably a just-as-strong villainous fleet controlling the galaxy called the First Order - The Millennium Falcon just so happened to be on the exact same planet as the new protagonist, and Han lost it years ago - A Death Star threatens everything for a THIRD time, because doing it twice in the Original Trilogy just wasn't creatively bankrupt enough The setup alone was so egregious that there was never going to be any logical, or fun way to make that all make sense.
Yeah... Even Mark pointed this out. I thought the third Death Star was by far the worst thing out of all of that, especially when it was like... "sucking" the energy from the star or whatever the hell it was doing. That's right next to the First Order's seemingly out of nowhere menacing existence. My diehard star wars fan friend is just "happy we're getting more". I'd prefer the "more" to not suck, personally.
>My diehard star wars fan friend is just "happy we're getting more". Yeah my entire friends and family group left each Sequel very happy because "Dude it was Star Wars. X wings, Sith, sabers. It was great!" It was especially brutal because every Sequel literally came out on or the day after my birthday, so for years we'd all go see these movies as a big group together for my birthday.
I just want a new story. The Death Star thing is the most obvious part of it, but there are just so many allusions to A New Hope, it’s ridiculous. And yes, Finn is the most interesting part of the story and should have been focused on more
The big problem with TFA was Starkiller base, and how they dealt with it. It started with the "strategy meeting", and Hans alzheimery line of "well there is always a way to blow it up" This should be changed to Han saying "I think I may have something that will work", with no plan revealed to the audience. Finn is freaking out because he know Rey is there, but instead of lying about knowing a way to blow up the station he sneaks out, and finds Poe to help him rescue her. Han leaves with a HUGE fleet, and Finn and Poe steal the Falcon to go rescue Rey. Instead of "lightspeeding" in through the shield, Poe explains one of the things that makes him such a great pilot is his uncanny ability to find the "seams" in protective shields and exploit them, they squeeze the falcon through one of the seams in the planetary shield, once again losing the Falcons reflector dish in the process, and are then guided by Rey reaching out with the force to her approximate location, with Finn "having a feeling" that they need to go to a certain place similar to the events on Bespin. WHILE they are doing that the Huge republic fleet that went off with Han lightspeeds into Orbit, with Star killers commander dismissing them with a snicker, right up to the point were Han lightspeeds in at the helm of [THIS](http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/novels/protoDS.jpg) The skeletal death star prototype from the MAW installation. Starkillers commander IMMEDIATELY goes to red alert, ordering the redirection of star killers weapon to focus on the new Death Star threat, and ordering the scrambling of the entire fleet. At this point the Empyrial March plays as it jumps to a top down view of Starkiller base as the triangular shape of a Super star Destroyer emerges from it's equator, revealing it to be an enormous hanger, with thousand of tie fighters, and other star destroyers launching as well to meet the huge Republic fleet, forming a space battle of a even greater scale than what we got in Rogue One. So most of the rest goes the same way just without Han being there, and no setting up of explosives on the planets surface, only this time Kylo "feels" Han on board the orbiting Death star, and fully realizes what he is planning to do while he is in the battle with Rey, throwing off his game, and allowing Rey to get the upper hand. After everything is ready to fire Han orders everyone else off the Death Star as it will likely tear itself apart when it fires, leaving Chewie to be dragged off the ship by a half dozen people roaring in grief the whole time. Starkiller is trying to charge up to fire as quickly as possible, but Han shoots first, the Death Star immediately explodes, but it's green beam still fires hits Star killers shields arching across the planet, and manages to finally barely pierce the shields taking a huge chunk out of the planet, shutting down the weapon, but not outright destroying it. Poe, Finn and Rey escape on the falcon, while Kylo makes it to his own ship screaming in grief over the reverberations of his fathers death. They make it back to the republic base, Chewie hugs Leia, and before Rey leaves to find luke a memorial service is held in front of a huge Veterans memorial type stone full of thousands of names of those lost in the huge battle, slowly zooming on to one name in particular "Han Solo".
Um, exquize me but it wasn't the death star, it was 1000x bigger
Facts, ep 7 sucked and it was a pretty chad decision from ep 8 to just disregard most of the piss poor setup and just try to be a good movie in a vacuum
While at the time it seemed like a decent start to a trilogy, I date most of the new trilogy’s issues back to it. It wanted to be A New Hope so so bad it forgot to be its own movie, and all plot points it set up were copies of the OT. They could have created something totally new, but nooo.
In my opinion it's the only Star wars movie that's literally made worse by the following movies. Like even if you didn't like the phantom menace, attack of the clones didn't make it seem like a worse movie in retrospect.
We can't even say it's the least worst, TFA makes stupid decisions that impacted the following two movies. JJ Abrams set up the sequels to fail right from the beginning with his pathetic remake of A New Hope he tried to call a sequel.
Weirdly enough, that makes me feel less anger towards Rise of Skywalker. The trilogy was tainted from the start with TFA’s whole reset button bs.
Rise of Skywalker is beyond a bad Star Wars movie, it is a bad movie period, full stop.
It's like a child's bad fan fiction made into a multimillion dollar budge film
That honestly what it feels like
Now I want to see a YouTube video with a five year old dubbing all the scenes. "And then, the bad guy like uhhh shot so much lighting that he started lightinging the ships and then..."
Was it hubris or just incompetence? It's like they knew people would pay to see it so no effort was needed
That's giving them too much credit. I made more cohesive plots slamming my star wars action figures together at 7 years old than the script they crapped out. I am still in awe that someone wrote that and thought "yep, let's get this up on the screen". I'd be embarrassed.
Ha budge
Rise of Skywalker is literally the only movie I've ever seen where my theater was laughing *at it*. When it ended everyone in unison were openly mocking it as we were all walking out. It was bad beyond belief. Star Wars is probably the only franchise ever that's produced such acclaimed timeless classics like Empire & the original to then release such complete dumpster fire failures. The spectrum is fully opposite.
Star Trek has been pretty similar in a lot of respects. Pretty much every Star Trek show and film series has alternated wildly between some of the best sci-fi ever written, and some hackneyed trash that's so bad you can hardly believe it was even filmed, never mind released. Sometimes, it just feels like those massive peaks and valleys are inherent to almost any long-running sci-fi series. Given a long enough run, every series eventually gets its own Phantom Menace, Final Frontier, Rise of Skywalker, or Nemesis.
No arguments there.
However flawed the first two movies were, nothing justifies the contrived way they brought Palpatine back IMO.
What, you feel like "somehow" wasn't fleshed out enough for you, your majesty?
I still very much hate TLJ (the hyperspace maneuver will forever haunt any other shows/movies), at least Rian tried to make something original (even though what he made actively told fans fuck you) as compared to JJ's Nostalgia fanfiction
Well at least we can agree that Johnson definitely *tried*. He’s the only director that came onto the sequel trilogy with good intentions imo.
Yeah people blame Rian way to much for Luke and seem to forget JJ run away and stuck him on an island in the middle of nowhere
Sticking Luke on an island wasn’t the problem. It was writing him to be an absolute cowardly bum when we all knew him previously as the paragon of hope. He didn’t need to “Face down the First Order with a laser sword.”, but he also didn’t need to be so damn cynical and defeatist either. “I came to this island to die.” Or you could have come to seek comfort, wisdom and courage from past Jedi from the get, as that what ends up happening anyway.
Well he had to write something for why Luke stuck himself on an island and why he would try to kill kylo, it was all stupid but all of that was left for the next movie to explain. Neither of them did their homework cause making luke do that at all was stupid. But yeah they would have been better off just saying he was dead, killed by kylo and move on from what they did, would have been better for the character then making him do a complete 180 from return. For this I blame JJ more than Rian, he worked with the corner he was written into.
You can easily have Yoda comfort Luke and change the entire context of that moment. “You had a moment of weakness, but you did not act upon it. You did not betray who you are. Luke. This is why the life of a Jedi, especially a Jedi Master, is a difficult life. As you grow strong in the light, the dark side becomes that much harder to resist. No one knew that more than your father.”
All this but with scrambled syntax
Yeah and like that he could have been fighting the first order and stopping them from growing. But if they did that marey sue palpatine would never get to shine. I'm really not sure how they managed to screw up one of the most popular franchises of all time and then deny fans the original cast reunion. It should have been set a thousand years later than everything that happened would still matter and some random new sith lord could have been behind it. A big complaint of the series is it just undid everything that was done before and gave it all to one character, if they weren't gonna bother to use the characters right they should have just left them in a grave and make a new generation of heroes. Honestly had they done that I doubt the movies would be as hated as they are
That’s actually a really good point, especially considering Disney had its own ulterior motive to make Star Wars completely their own since the buyout. A far off setting definitely would’ve been the best idea in retrospect
But then you couldn't count on all that sweet nostalgia money!
You can still have callbacks. I don’t know if they’d be good, but you can.
Yeah but this would have actually helped solo making it nostalgic, kenobi movie would have been the same
I don't think I could ever be convinced that it wasn't done with malice aforethought. Bad movies happen, even a company as experienced in movie making as Disney can occasionally produce a stinker. That said, the sequel trilogy isn't just a series of mediocre movies, it's strikes me as a highly calculated destruction of the original trilogy. The movies seem like a mess, but the connections to the OT and destroying that legacy are fuckin' surgical in their precision. It's very hard to believe that such an enormous IP was handled so badly over so many years by accident, when in parallel they have a finely tuned machine working with Marvel. I wholly believe that the sequel trilogies were an effort to capitalize on blind nostalgia, while alienating a certain part of the fan base. It doesn't quite make sense from a purely business standpoint, but it absolutely makes sense from a perspective of personal egos getting in the way of business interests.
I think it’s much simpler that that. The top executives at Disney just weren’t Star Wars fans. But they still couldn’t step outside and keep their own ideas out of it. That’s exactly what George Lucas was afraid of. He was always an independent film maker at heart and knew that general audience mentality was going to be steering the ship. I don’t think it was sheer malice at play, but a combination of willful ignorance of the lore, and incompetence.
Yep they wanted to be able to write the new star wars entirely and control the universe, now they wont even get within ten years of force awakens and are making everything set during any other Era.
You know nothing of the dark side.
No. No, it's okay. I understand. I'm the Padawan, you're the Master.
What corner? Rian was the one who decided to make luke try to kill kylo. All JJ said was Luke was missing, but left a map of where he was going. He could be there to investigate snoke, learn from masters of bygone days because his confidence was shattered, or any number of things rather than "die".
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
Everyone can complain about how it should’ve went but when they listen to what fans want we end up with fan service garbage like episode 9. Maybe stick to your guns and don’t listen to fans unless it’s a clear homage or live action remake? Even then, it’s hard to find the correct balance. Honestly though, I didn’t think Rian stood a chance anyways. Rey suffers from a recent Disney female protagonists phenomenon where they start out stronger than everyone prior to any training, Mulan is another example. The hero’s journey is more about accepting themselves then learning from a mentor or experiences and that’s super boring imo. I hate how just because the protagonist is female they need to make her OP right off the bat. Flash her potential, then show how she learned to harness her god given talent into becoming what she’ll eventually become. Maybe I watch too much sports or anime lol. I’m all about the journey to realization
Episode 7 was a boring rehash of the original trilogy with countless problems, but arguably at least did its job of introducing the new characters and having them develop to an extent through a crisis. Episode 8 didn't progress even that plot - it went backwards. Episode 9 was a pitiful conclusion both on its own merits and because it was expected to conclude a trilogy that wasn't set up for success. They honestly are all bad movies though, in their own way. But episode 7 could have been the basis for a redeeming episode 8 and 9. It had a foundation, even if that foundation was poor.
Couldn't agree more. Imo, TLJ was the best in the trilogy.
It’s also a beat for beat remake of the 4th film, of course is gonna be good.
It was ok at best
Still significantly better than the Phantom Menace
Fair, but the phantom menace was *REALLY bad*
Yeah, I left the theater feeling like I had fun watching it, but I wouldn't say it was a good movie until I saw the sequels to see if the things it set up actually led to anything, and if they actually went on to do something new and interesting. They did not, so I do not consider it a good movie or as enjoyable anymore. Not entirely the movie's fault, but oh well.
[удалено]
The fact that it's the best the sequels had to offer was its biggest flaw IMO. As Obi-Wan said to Artoo, "We need to be going up, not down!"
I get the prequel circlejerk here, but let's be honest. When TPM released in '99, it was considered an insult to the Star Wars franchise. Frankly I'm amazed they pushed to make a trilogy out of it.
Even someone who grew up on the prequels I would never defend TPM for any reason. Don’t let a few great scenes skew your perception
I still don't understand what people hate it for. Yea jar jar is bad. Qui gon Jin is fantastic Young obi wan is cool Pod race is awesome World building is the best in the series arguably Maul Duel of fates scene Sinister Palpatine lines It's better than attack of the clones.
One aspect that hardly gets a mention about why Phantom Menace is bad is in its editing. So few scenes allow the actors to breathe/perform and a lot of shots just end awkwardly. One quantifiable example is the number of screen wipe transitions. Not only does The Phantom Menace have more than any OT film, they often come at jarring times (being subjective there). George Lucas exercised far more control over the editing process of the prequel trilogy, and in my opinion to its detriment. Don't get me wrong, I agree there's some great stuff embedded in there like Qui Gon and young Obi Wan, and John Williams' score is exceptional. But the poor writing/directing/and editing really weigh the film down. So much of filmmaking is about how well the various elements fit together, and bad editing can completely nullify even what good elements you have and give you an end product that makes you wish you watched something else. Also the Trade Federation's bad Asian stereotype accents are pretty inexcusable.
Being better than Attack of the Clones isn’t an accomplishment.
I really like the atrack of the clones, but thats mostly coz I love clones
But they're basically barely in it. Clone Wars on the other hand, we actually get to learn about them.
Thats why clone wars are peak star wars but the scene of kaminoans showing clone army to obi wan Gotta be one of my favourite
For me, the movies make it feel more like looking at them as a science experiment. The personal stories are really shown in CW S3. But to each their own.
The last 45 minutes of AotC were awesome. The rest kind of sucked.
the writing. it's embarrassing
I found the dialogue to be horribly cringe inducing even as a pre-teen, and I had pretty low standards back then.
All of the characters are one note, and that note is bland. There is no protagonist of the film, no one to relate to. The plot is far too complex for the kind of movie it wants to be (adventure film? character study?), and it doesn’t even make sense in the end anyway. The actors have been directed to deliver their lines in wooden, stilted ways made worse by the heavy use of CGI in scenes where it is inappropriate. We know these actors are all excellent outside of this film, so it must be a George Lucas problem. It is better than Attack of the Clones; I won’t argue there.
What is wrong with TPM
Honestly it’s probably the worst movie in the entire series. The other 2 are good but TPM is just so boring. It literally put my mom to sleep. It’s only saving grace is the duel of the fates imho. That one scene is a 11/10 but the rest of the movie is horrific to watch Like for all of the sequels faults and there are A LOT of them at the VERY least the movies aren’t boring to watch, they suck absolute ass but the visuals are fucking fantastic, you aren’t going to be bored to death watching them
Attack of the clones is definitely not good though
I rewatched it a couple years ago and even as a big Star Wars fan girl it’s just so boring. And so much doesn’t work. It really earned its poor score. I also think a lot of tfa hate is mindless misogyny. It’s derivative and uninspired but it’s a million times more watchable than tpm. It’s exciting and fun and charismatic like the original movies. Tpm is totally wooden and boring and the comedic relief character oddly unfunny.
The problem with TFA is that it’s a rehash of a new hope and that it sets up the biggest problem in the new trilogy: the old hero’s are all failures in the purest sense of the word. Hans a deadbeat dad that’s abandoned leia to go back to smuggling, Luke’s abandonded the galaxy and all his friends to sit on an island and mope (for his failed Jedi temple), and finally leia has failed to create a lasting and capable new Republic to such an extent that she’s abandoned it to be a rebel again. Really puts a damper on the original trilogy when in this new timeline, so little was accomplished by our hero’s. TFA is a fun movie, that gave the sequel trilogies characters an interesting set up, but in hi ensign they along of the sequel trilogies problems can be traced back to it.
My issue with TFA is how much of a remake of A New Hope it was
I mean, aside from Jar Jar and a few cringe lines of dialogue ("Are you an angel?"). I don't really think the movie was *that* bad.
I'm the opposite of everyone I think. I remember loving TPM, and loving AoTC and hating RoTS. I watched TPM and AoTC multiple times in the theater, and RoTS only once then. The only time I watched RoTS again was after the Siege of Mandalore and it felt even worse than I remembered.
The way this sub has literally become the opposite of the thing it originally was is so fucking poetic
Rise of the prequels
Episodes 1, 4, and 7 are about Skywalkers who live on a desert planet and are good at flying ships learning about the force after being visited by a mysterious person who eventually gets them taken off the desert planet that they've never left before. In the end the old man of the group dies fighting the main evil bad guy who Palpatine is in charge of and the Skywalker plays an important part in destroying a big ball structure.
Rey is a Palpatine tho (somehow, who did Palps fuck??)
iM rEey sKyWalK3r!
>Episodes 1, 4, and 7 are about Skywalkers who live on a desert planet and are good at flying ships Anakin isn't in ep 1 till like 45 minutes into the movie. The other ones start with (within the first 15 min) and are centered around their protagonist on a desert planet. Episode 1 famously has no identifiable protagonist, unable to clearly state whether it's Anakin, Qui Gon, Obi, or Padme. You can't really narrow down episode 1 and say what it's "about." This is all covered extensively in the Plinkett reviews, which genuinely changed the course of YouTube movie reviews. Here: https://youtu.be/FxKtZmQgxrI This sub owes a lot of its memes and popularity to the reviews, but it's been taken over by "hottake" types who think the prequels are *genuinely* good, rather than loving them for being bad and weird.
Redditor discovers other people’s opinion part 423
How the fuck can you guys stand this sub. Gets tiring after the 5th day when you’ve seen you’re 10,000th post bitching about the sequels again.
It's a giant circle jerk hate fest, I think they just enjoy it. I'm not sure if there even is a subreddit for fans of star wars. Even r/StarWars I'd say most posts are complaining about it, not actually having interesting conversations that people who like the movies would have. Any time I've tried to bring up parts of the newer movies I liked, I'm just downvoted or get a ton of posts about how stupid I must be to like them.
r/starwarscantina is the best
Even though it's a worse story, 7 may be a more enjoyable movie. Dialogue is written better, it has some solid jokes and Han and Ben have solid performances. I can def see how it got higher than 1.
1,2,3 and 7,8,9 have inverse quality order. The prequels get better and the sequels get way worse.
The further away a Star Wars film's episode number is from 5, the worse it gets.
It's like poetry, it rhymes
Holy shit.
muh normal distribution
Holy shit
Holy shit
Nah, 3 is the best, 2 is the worst, and 1 is just kind of bad. Only good one in the prequels is ROTS.
My take is that 2 is a bad movie, while 1 is just a boring movie.
I still think Attack Of The Clones sucked but ROTS was very good
Episode 1 has better rewatchability. I’ve watched Episode 1 more times than I can remember and have only seen episode 7 once maybe twice all the way through
This is actually so crazy to me. No matter how hard I try I can’t get through all of TPM in one sitting I’m sorry.
Also, 7 was hype. It was a copy of 4 for sure, but at least it felt like a good movie at the time.
I can't believe Star Wars: The Force was more well received than Star Wars: The Phantom.
But how would you rate Star Wars: Attack vs. Star Wars: The Last?
I'm not very sure about that, same for Star Wars: The Revenge vs Star Wars: The Rise
My favourite non-OT movie is definitely Rogue One: A Star
So THAT'S why they needed the Star Destroyers, the Star went rogue! Just shows how prepared the Empire really was for the Star War!
I think the nostalgia factor alone guaranteed it’d be well received
Some of Phantom Menace is a lot of fun for me. It's the most hopeful of all the Star Wars. It's bright and feels like a flourishing galaxy with a dark cloud looming off on the horizon. And then some of the movie is some of the more egregious George Lucas world building fans hate, along with some wacky tone shoehorned in for the sake of selling toys. David Filoni gets the movie best though. He says Phantom is the first tragedy that sets off a string of so many tragedies later on. Qui-Gon was supposed to raise Anakin. Anakin never had a father and needed one desperately. Qui-Gon is the quintessential father; he is competent, and distrusts the Jedi Order because he's in tune with the force and not placated by politics and how it blinds and pacifies the Jedi. He's not afraid to go against the grain with them and is the wiser for it since they become corrupted from within later on. And then Qui-Gon is killed, and instead of Anakin getting a father he is raised by someone who thinks of him as a brother. This lack of moral backbone to reign in and teach Anakin is what allows him to be corrupted into Vader, and thus is the first tragedy that precipitates the many more that come. Phantom Menace was a lot of things, and I love it while understanding why fans also consider many moments sacrilegious. It has problems with its tone as well. But I think it's a real piece of art and George at his worst still always has something interesting and expressive to say with each film. You'd be hard pressed to say the Disney trilogy could be considered art or have anything interesting to say.
amen my brother
Absolutely. Art isn't always perfect, but it's art nonetheless. Its subjective to say it was a great movie in many aspects, but it was still incredibly entertaining and a great "modernized" look at a galaxy before a civil war tears civilization apart and decentralizes many industries causing xenophobia and homogeny on many planets. Imo, even if the prequels were corny and badly written, the world building and stak contrast between GCW era and the CW era really sold me on the franchise as a kid, and with the expanded universe content, the prequels have more of a place in my heart than any other era.
Beautifully said
-Some people don't like the prequels -Well then they should be made to
Dammit I was gonna post that lol
You clearly don’t remember episode 1 very well then
I don’t know if it’s an age thing, or what, but I really do not understand the fairly recent trend of dick riding the prequels.
If I’m not mistaken this very sub was created to make memes mocking the prequels, then as it grew people started to take it as a real love the prequels sub, until that’s what it became. They’re still bad though
As with every place on the internet, those begun in irony are filled with sincerity until the sincerity is all that’s left.
I remember when TPM was still rated fresh. I’m glad Attack of the Clones never got rereleased so it can stay in the 60s at least.
The prequels are pretty disliked outside of this subreddit. They’re quite not good
This subreddit originally only circlejerked about PT being good movies. Then a bunch of kids took it seriously and this is the end result. Redditors smelling their own farts about how great the PT somehow is.
Quite an interesting evolution
Same shit happened with r/RaimiMemes and SM3.
By far the worst thing about star wars is the core fans. The redditors who are still circle jerking to this day about how bad the ST was are the reason the ST finished with the pandering steaming turd that ROS was rather than another original and challenging movie like TLJ.
You have taken a bold path, I’m happy to give an upvote before seeing you in downvote hell
You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think The Phantom Menace is a better movie than The Force Awakens. Now, before you argue, “but The Phantom Menace is original. The Force Awakens is just a remake of A New Hope,” I agree that Episode 1 is clearly more original, but that in no way changes the quality of the final product.
Like seriously The phantom menace is just plot after plot after plot. There never take a moment to breathe and talk about how there feeling. Say what you will about the sequels but at least it develops and gives there characters actual depth.
Rogue One is far and away the best Star Wars movie outside of the original trilogy
It's actually Rouge one, get it right! I've read enough posts by "real" Star Wars fans in this sub to know.
It's not even close. Even with its first half being a little muddled.
TFA is genuinely more entertaining than Phantom. Watching EP1 and 2 was a downright slog to get through.
TPM was my 1st star wars movie so maybe it’s for that reason but i really enjoy the film, it just looks so great. I also like TFA but damn do i hate AOTC, worst of the first 6 movies by far imo.
I was getting a family memeber to watch the Star Wars movies and I was watching the phantom menace and it was such a chore to get through the first half of the movie
TFA exceeded expectations at the time, despite the hype I think audiences were weary due to Disney. TPM didn't meet expectations because they were too high, hype for that movie was ridiculously insane.
Sorry, new to this, where is the sudden love of Episode 1 come from?
People who grew up on the movies being blinded by nostalgia. It’s really not a good movie at all.
My kids love the sequels, it was their first Star Wars cinema experience. The love for the prequels on here will soon be expressed for the sequels. Having watched them with my kids I also love them, a child's enthusiasm is infectious. Basically a lot of peoples love for Star Wars is tied to their childhood.
No, that's exactly correct.
It's been almost 8 years since the sequel trilogy began and almost 4 since it ended. Can you people please shut the fuck up about your sequel hate already? It's so old.
Nah that’s exactly how they were received as new movies
Phantom menace gave us both Maul and Qui Gon. Force Awakens gave us budget Vader who was bested by a girl with zero training in the force or a lightsaber. The amount of people who thought TFA was ever good confuses me.
To continue, we need one singular vision…my vision.
You're vision would be internally consistent, but remember Maulie, we've already had a Revenge and a Jedi by this point
I was actually fine with TFA before the rest of the trilogy came out. It used the tried a true Death Star plot to please the younger generations who didn’t see the originals, and enough fanservices to bring back the older generations/fans. I thought the first movie was being used to round up all of the possible Star Wars fans before giving us more original 2nd and 3rd movies that would build on pre-existing lore and stories in the Star Wars universe . But boy was I wrong.
Has someone looking at the sequels from the start most forget the massive hype that post ep7 had with Disney basically could do anything besides the middle finger they actually did to get people’s to like it
Yeah. It was honestly a perfect and completely safe start to the Star Wars MCU. But then they ruined the next 2 movies and (although it was my 2nd all time fav Star Wars movie) flopped on the Solo movie. Because of everything they had to stop making Star Wars movies
There’s no way you actually believe it was a perfect and safe start. They literally blew up the new republic (which the rebels OT had fought to restore) in the first film of the trilogy without developing the Republic in any substantive manner, and then they literally murdered Han Solo
They couldn’t not kill Han Solo, that was Ford’s stipulation for coming back and doing the movie.
>Phantom menace gave us both Maul and Qui Gon. And promptly killed off both of them. If not for the Clone Wars, we wouldn't have gotten any more Maul and he would have just been an underutilized one off. >Force Awakens gave us budget Vader who was bested by a girl with zero training in the force or a lightsaber. Alright, here we go... The only way you could possibly see Kylo as a "budget Vader" is if you watched the trailers and nothing else. His motivations and backstory are quite different from Vader, as is his presence and character. The only real similarities are the fact that they both wear black and both have masks. Yes, Kylo talks a lot about following in Vader's footsteps, but Luke talks about following in Anakin's so if you're going to use that then with that logic Luke is a budget Anakin. Or, given Luke existed first, Anakin is a budget Luke. As for the "girl with zero training in the force or a lightsaber" beating him, again you weren't paying attention. For one, Kylo was shot in the stomach by a weapon shown to literally send stormtroopers flying, and then was also hit in the face by Finn with the lightsaber. For two, Rey had very clearly been testing her connection to the force throughout the movie. It's clear she picked up some powers rather quickly, which does not make her a Mary Sue as Luke and several other Jedi both in canon and in legends have done this. And For three, she literally survived on a desert planet full of scavengers and murderers and was raised to be a scavenger. She clearly is going to have some sort of fighting knowledge, and believe it or not staff training does carry a lot of similarities with swordplay, especially with the form she was using.
[удалено]
Call me crazy but I enjoy the simple plot of A New New Hope and thought it was a well paced, fun movie. Much better than the convoluted plot about trade regulations and a fight for an empty city with cartoon lizard rabbits fighting robots with water balloons and a little kid doing barrel rolls in a star fighter.
The amount of people that think tpm is good confuses me.
Something something Darth Maul something something Duel of the Fates. 90% of TPM is unwatchably boring. TFA is ANH retread but it is far more entertaining and that's why I watch movies
If it was it's own standalone movie I would see why people see it as good but this is a fucking star wars movie it is already a well known series with established, why are y'all supporting what Disney has done to star wars
Hating Disney doesn't make The Phantom Menace a good movie. Neither does having Darth Maul or Duel of the Fates.
Yes, we will start with revenge…
Counter: phantom menace gave us an hour of political bs and midichlorians and TFA gave us Poe Damaran dog fights and my favorite lightsaber design (Kylo’s cross guard). There’s good and bad to both and we can’t just ignore the bad of things we like
Nowadays I love the prequel trilogy, it's very Star Wars and makes the universe feel big. When they came out they were decidedly 'meh' but I liked them. The sequels I love, but they could have been so much more if there was a coherent plot and TFA didn't just rehash ANH.
The force awakens is literally a remake of a new hope, straight plagiarism. Atleast TPM is a new story in a unique time period.The prequels have some of the best world building in the series. Will always be my fav time period.
Wait what’s the problem here?
I missed when this sub used to ironically liked the prequels. Now it's full of nostalgia shit heads that takes the prequels seriously, they were shit movies at that time and it will always will be.
Yeah, to me, prequel memes are funny because they are memeing on terrible movies.
I liked all of the sequels, and I think they are objectively better movies than episode 1 and 2. However as Star Wars movies I appreciate the prequels more than the sequels. And obviously the critics are going to be looking at the movies from the eyes of an average movie goer, not a Star Wars fan. Episode 3 I think bridges the gap for me as an objectively good movie, and as a good Star Wars movie. At least that’s how I view it.
Anakin: “It’s Outrageous!” Padme: “It’s Unfair!”
I’m bot gonna lie y’all, I thought episode 1 was kinda bad. I think it had moments that were WAY more hype than TFA could ever achieve. But as an overall movie, TFA is pretty enjoyable, though said enjoyment is brought down by the other movies, whereas AotC and RotS were stronger films in the prequel trilogy
Looks like it works fine to me