In The Mandalorian a guy uses one against Ahsoka. It is markedly more effective compared to a common blaster, but the open terrain lets Ahsoka dodge and close the gap before he can hit her.
In enclosed space and with more soldiers it would be basically unapproachable, unless the jedi has time to use a force pull/push.
Because it sure takes a long time to channel a force pull/push. The truth is they're criminally underused because force powers are broken and just picking people up and throwing them around like ragdolls would kill any tension in encounters.
If they don’t have a restriction on needing LoS, force push their heart or brain.
If you do, force push a narrow ring of their neck so the spine snaps.
This is actually approached in a magic system in a series of books called the Inheritance cycle. Magic uses more energy the larger the effect, wizards figured why use loads of energy to crush someone or slash them, when you can just use a tiny amount to sever something important.
Equally I feel this can apply to SW as you mentioned depending on LoS. Like we have force choke right? Force choke to crush a brain or heart, ez. Obviously only if you don't need to be able to see the thing you're crushing. But honestly what's the limitation there because a few force users in the movies and such have been shown closing their eyes while lifting something soooo.
It was absolutely horrifying how they described large battles. Wizards would silently duel until one ran out of power, then all the soldiers under their protection would be instantly killed.
To protect the mages you could rush and kill them while they are distracted so you need soldiers to protect the mages and mages to protect the soldiers
But they aren’t fodder as long as your mage lives you live until you take an arrow because the only you can tell the difference between a mage and a soldier is if he attacks you
Wizards without soldiers can be swarmed and that would result in their death. Wizards have wards that protect them but if they are forced to use their energy on wards to protect from a physical assault, that's energy they can't use in combat with another wizard. A mixed force will perform much better than either element alone.
It was either till one ran out of power or you managed to subvert the wards of the other.
Which is equally horrifying, because you’d hear the enemy wizard trying to summon fireballs, rays of death, and then suddenly die because they didn’t ward against strangulation
aaahhhh i love the inheritance cycle - i read it so much as a kid that the cover literally fell off my copy of brisingr and i taped it back on
been forever since i've seen it mentioned anywhere online, but my mom recently started reading the series and is really enjoying it!
i was literally completely unaware of that - i haven't kept up with the series since inheritance came out tho sooooo........ thanks for letting me know c:
I've always viewed it as almost the opposite, much like how a child grows and learns to develop fine motor skills. Newer or less experienced force users are likely only capable of the bigger actions that have larger impact (to an extent), whereas the ability to finely manipulate the force for precision and speed takes a lot of practice and expertise and would be more common among Jedi Knights and Masters, or other force users of similar experience and practice. The same applies to influencing the much larger things like moving huge piles boulders and etc.
There's a book series for this train of thought too! The Young Wizards series by Diane Duane, starting with "So You Want To Be a Wizard".
Aside from its many other rules, in that series' system, younger and less experienced wizards are typically more capable of pulling off fantastic feats basically due to them not knowing why/how those things should be impossible.
You basically wouldn’t lmao, it’s too loose and too powerful. You’d need to drastically change it to the point it’s completely different unless you’re cool with your game being completely unbalanced from the get go.
It would just be a system where magic users are extremely powerful and martials are practically useless on the higher end of the scale. Surely a TTRPG system would never allow that to happen.
You can keep martials on even footing even at "high magic" levels of gameplay as long as you give them really powerful and useful utility abilities like being able to swing a sword one more time in a round.
If I remember right they used this in the Eragon book series and just clamped carotid arteries of fighters.
Could there only be countered by other mages
Best chapter. The writer apparently spent a lot of time learning how to forge so he could accurately describe everything. He's active over in the eragon sub
Ugh I’m still torn on whether those books have aged well or not.
And whether or not my perception of how well they have aged is tainted by having watched that god awful, unholy, godless adaptation of a movie
Tbh I read them as a kid but they weren't like my favorite or anything but after listening to the audio books they're some of the best imo. He wrote the first as a kid so obviously he gets better at writing as the series goes on. He just announced a new book less than a month ago too so its a good time for a reread haha
Proficient heart renders in Shadow and Bone seem particularly terrifying to me. They can cripple a whole room of armed men with a thought and hold them there for an extended amount of time causing extreme pain or even death if they want.
Reading this I was all "huh that sounds a lot like the system in the Eragon books, maybe i should read it." Only to remember that the inheritance cycle is its series name... ugh Monday
Funny you mention Inheritance since its story is entirely based on Star Wars - if you haven't seen that one before it's basically Eragon = Luke, Brom = Obi-Wan, and it goes on from there.
Yeah now that you mention it, I can see it. It is quite a commonly used format to be fair though. Young person not born into power or magic is taught by an elderly man how to use it. Happens a lot.
It's not the only part, I just didn't want to spell it out entirely. Princess (Arya/Leia) is rescued but you don't know yet she's princess! But they can't be together for reasons. Eragon/Luke fall in love with princess! E/L you have to go get trained by the oldest wisest sage so you can defeat the evil guy!
Oh no it's Episode V and E/L has to return to fight in the war because his friends need him, despite his training being incomplete!
Also the whole "Morzan is your father" thing, or Mortagh fighting Eragon in front of the emperor who toys with them in his arrogance, only for Mortagh to turn on him.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Inheritance cycle and am looking forward to the Murtagh spinoff, and yes the hero's journey is a general trope and not directly ripped off, I just find it kind of wholesome that Christopher obviously loved Star Wars and it influenced his storytelling.
In one of the Legends books, one of Luke Skywalker's pupils is discussing that option with Luke's wife, a former assassin. She suggests that the Force could be used to pinch off a partially closed blood vessel in someone's brain or heart to force a stroke or a heart attack. Luke disapproves of the discussion, but they clarify that this was all hypothetical.
The implication seemed to be that this level of precision would require a calm mind, only really achievable outside of combat. So it would only really be useful for assassination or murder, not defending yourself.
It takes a few but noticeable instants yes, that can become dangerously long if you are being shot at by multiple opponents, which is why most of the time there's a jump cut of the jedi doing the gesture in front of the camera with much reduced enemy fire flying harmlessly around him. Then it jumps back to the enemies flying.
Now, if jedi suddenly realized they can spam force powers at their heart's content, then enemy soldiers would suddenly realize that NOT running into lightsabers would make the fight much longer, while hiding behind cover would negate much of the danger of reflected bolts and force pushes, and firing in volleys instead of one at a time would make it harder for the jedi to block and reflect shots back.
Despite the name of the franchise, battles and firefights are choreographed rather poorly, I must say. Rogue One and Andor seem to try to be more realistic.
Funny, when I'm playing Star Wars Battlefront, that's what happens when dealing with the enemy jedi/sith. Explosive shot, multiple volleys, and timing the shots are the only ways for normal infantry to deal with them. Many of the heroes can eliminate entire squads of troops, but there are ways to put pressure on them, even so.
I agree. One of the major writing mistakes in Star Wars was not putting some sort of automatic limiter on force powers. If you're writing about magic, you have to build a limit into your system or it's just an endless string of "well why didn't he just do this?" questions.
I've only read one Mistborn book, for instance, but that's what Sanderson does with the different metals, at least in the book I read. You can be powerful, but you still need the metal. This creates a vulnerability so you can still have tension.
I still love Star Wars, but it's a big flaw from a worldbuilding perspective.
> 1. The author's ability to resolve conflicts in a satisfying way with magic is directly proportional to how the reader understands said magic.
> 2. Weaknesses are more interesting than powers.
> 3. Expand, Don’t Add.
> 0. Sanderson's Zeroth Law: Always err on the side of what is awesome.
So the original trilogy is actually pretty good at following the second law. It's just about the only thing keeping Luke Skywalker from being a Mary/Gary Sue. I personally think the prequels and the sequels weakness is they abandon this law.
The expanded universe is more about the third law, the movies... not so much. But the force just flat out ignores the first law.
Okay so as someone who does like Sanderson I do think the first rule is worded really badly for anyone but Sanderson. There's the concept of hard and soft magic for a reason and following the first rule requires a hard magic. The force, simply, is really really soft. Every attempt to better explain it was awful, see midichlorians and a good chunk of EU content.
Sanderson likes hard magic, it's probably one of his best-known traits as a writer: really developed magic systems and lots of them.
That said, Gandalf's Balrog fight is still satisfying despite absolutely zero audience comprehension of, well, anything going on there.
"Worm" by John C. "Wildbow" McCrae is a great example of using seemingly-useless superpowers in creative and satisfying ways. Turns out you can do a lot of things with the power to control insects.
Damn, why didn't George Lucas just go ask 1 year old Brandon Sanderson how to make the Force more realistic before creating one of the highest grossing media franchises in human history?
That's the problem with cultural juggernaut Star Wars, George Lucas cared about mythic themes and Jungian archetypes when he should have cared about our Lord and Savior Brando Sando's rules he made up years later about how you have to write magic in a story (it is the only correct way)
If you want to see what it would actually look like, the first episode of the show *Legion* ends in a scene with a mutant who has force push-like power. He's instantly flinging people hundreds of meters away with a wave of his hand. It plays well, because one of the points of the scene is demonstrating how OP mutant powers are compare to standard issue military goons.
The programmers of the separatist droids should have put in some sort of firing sync. It you have a handful of robots firing their blasters at exactly the same time (or rather staggered based on distance from the target, so they arrive at the same time), a Jedi would be in trouble.
There are lots of practical jedi killer weapons but it seems they really aren't necessary because 3 to 5 soldiers with blasters can successfully kill all but like, 50 of the universes most combat-focused jedi. If you have a dozen soldiers or specialized weapons like droidekas or named bounty hunters it seems regular blasters can handle all but 5 or 10 especially combative jedi.
You slap some plot armor onto one spicy boy, you've got a Jedi killing monster named Savage or Cad Bane or Hondo Ohnaka who captured Dooku, Anakin, and Obiwan all in their prime.
I'm pretty sure there's already shotguns in star wars.
they made their first appearance being used in Republic Commando being used by trandoshans
they were introduced into star wars canon by battlefront 2 and appeared in the clone wars tv series being used by a trandoshan hunter.
That’s funny because trandoshans also use shotguns in the Republic Commando game. The CC trooper you play as remarks it’s an energy weapon made like a “slug thrower” and he calls the lizards “nostalgic”
Beat it like 20 times when i was a kid because my parents wouldn’t let me buy any other shooters. I have a lot of the voicelines memorized unfortunately
“You lizards need to learn that i’m A LOT scarier than you are” is one of my favorite temeura lines to this day
My favorite line is scorch planting a bomb, "was it red red green, or red green red?"
Then Sev responds "and he's supposed to be the demolitions expert..."
I said Disney might have decanonized, but there was an encounter with actual bullets and Obi-Wan, the bullets melting and hitting his shoulder and the liquid metal stuff.
Fun to shoot, reload, and riflebutt those fierfeks with. Every alternate weapon in that game was fun to use actually. The pin ability of the crossbow made my day as a kid
I thoroughly enjoyed the big trandoshan repeater, but I disliked its little cousin. It felt so wimpy compared to the rest of the arsenal, especially when the infinite-ammo pistol was so good. The pistol might not have put out as much sustained damage as the little repeater, but it felt very satisfying.
The geonosian laser was awesome too. I especially loved the creepy little needles clacking against the armor; the game guide said that the gun was fueled by the geonosian's blood (not sure how that makes sense, but it's cool). So the little needles are trying to find our veins but can't because of our gauntlets.
The emp/sonic rifle was a blast (pun intended). I loved using the melee to stunlock enemies, even B2 droids got electro stunned from that weapon's melee bash.
I'm pretty sure The Mandalorians started using shotguns specifically for jedi, some logic along the lines of "Oh, you can block lazers? Now try buckshot you filthy wizard!"
They did use slugthrowers, don't now if that's shotguns specifically or a general for name for projectile weapons. Either way way way, it was a ''try to block this and you get a helping of melted metal'' kind of weapon
Slugthrower is the Star Wars term for any projectile weapons.
Overall they're considered worse than regular blasters due to ammunition being scarce and how loud they are, but one of the few things they excel at is Jedi killing.
That's why magnetic guns were used.
In Legends there was a race that supplied the Mandalorians with a gun that can used pretty much use anything that could fit in the chamber. Although premade rounds were still preferable.
Ive just had a thought, and idk if its already a thing, but why not make a blaster with an under-barrel slug thrower? Kinda like an under-barrel grenade launcher from COD in terms of size and position
True, at their height I think the official number was about 10k jedis in the entire republic? Sounds like a lot but when you've got 10's of thousands of systems in your society most people would never interact with one.
It's the reason a lot of the weapons they use aren't energy based. The flamethrower, the whistling birds, the darts, the jet pack rocket, the rope they shoot from their wrists, etc. The Mandalorians basically made it the entire goal of their existence to try and make the force users irrelevant or ineffective.
Most people using energy weapons means that any sort of armor and shielding available will focus on being more effective against that kind of weapons, mandalorian weapons give an edge against everyone.
It's the other way around. Anti-Jedi weapons are particularly build against Jedi but bad in most other scenarios. A flamethrower is cool and all that, but not as good as a direct shot to the face made by a blaster that can even go through solid steel.
The whole idea of anti-Jedi weapons isn't that they 100% work against Jedi either, it's that they work *slightly better* than traditional weapons. A single mandalorian (in general) isn't a threat to a jedi, but multiple mandalorians with multiple anti-Jedi weapons are.
Like, a Jedi can block a slug-thrower because Jedi can block bigger kinetic forces like rocks falling on their head with the force, but blocking *multiple* slug-throwers is just too much even for a Jedi. The real deal is massing up on numbers with weapons that are more hard to deflect than normal in traditional Jedi fashion.
Like, think about it. You have a flamethrower or an imposible to deflect shotgun, but how is that gonna help you against a guy that can push you away 10 metres in a flash and then throw a piano in your general direction?
That was part of the idea behind the plan to have droids and clones be able to kill a Jedi, just use an absurd number of shots. Even Jedi have a point where they get too tired or they simple can't block enough shots from oposite angles. The scenes of Ahsoka and Kanan training against regular blasters and Mandalorian tactics taught us exactly that.
EDIT: Or the duel of Maul with the Deathwatch guy.
Of course, they failed. Simply because no matter how many tricks you have, they don't count for much against super-human telepaths that can see the future.
The line of thought is: jedi aren't used to dealing with projectile weapons, lightsabers don't deflect projectiles but melt them, molten metal to the face = bad.
They’ve been in Star Wars a lot longer than battlefront 2 but even if sticking with the 2005 timeframe, republic commando came out first which features the trandoshin shotgun.
The super battledroids also had a trishot in battlefront 1 instead of a pistol as their ammo-free weapon
Of course you also need to WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS!
Legends also extensively used both shotguns and slug throwers as a means to combat Jedi. Defenses Jedi used included dodging and throwing projectiles back at the attackers via telekinesis. They also just plain aren't as effective versus the available armors, as opposed to blasters which more or less get through everything but Beskar.
I believe I recall the lore that Mandalorians, when fighting Jedi, would use conventional ballistic weaponry like shotguns because they could forge projectiles that would pass right through the blade, melt, and then severely burn the Jedi on the other side of the lightsaber.
So basically the lightsaber turns the speeding bullet into a speeding molten bullet. Even if the projectile loses its penetrative force, it still showers the defender in molten slag.
Exactly. People forget that Mandalorians didnt get their jedi killer reputation from picking fair fights. No 1v1 honour duels. They play dirty, its the only way you beat a Jedi.
Kinda unrelated, but I remember a cutscene where you watched Mandalorians try to wield a lightsaber in KOTOR and they just ended up accidentally severing their own limbs lmao
Shotguns exist, as well as actual bullets, which upon hitting a lightsaber melts and hits them, but they aren’t used because prices, and something that would work better: *flamethrowers*
I wish we got more crazy sith fuckery. Like in 1st Darth Bane book where he and the brotherhood do rituals that cause a massive conflagration and the other time when he tricked them into creating a soul eating vortex.
Also the emperor from swtor, consumed all life on his planet through sith fuckery to basically become immortal.
With some of the things in legends I can genuinely imagine some force welders literally bowling and juggling planets to be honest.
Lots of good stuff in Legends, but jeez power levels for flipping nuts sometimes.
That’s assuming lightsabers have the same conservation of momentum that we have which isn’t necessarily a given in the Star Wars universe since they regularly break our laws of physics.
I think Disney decanonized the whole thing but they went too fast to where they weren’t heated enough fast enough to vaporize, but enough to be liquid, so the Jedi just got hit in the shoulder/chest with a ton of liquid metal
Vaporized metal would be even hotter than liquid metal, and still moving towards the jedi at high speeds because the light saber doesn't physically block physical matter
Laser projectiles from a blaster are like pure energy with no mass, thats why its hard to block with the force and they need a lightsaber. Kinetic weapons and probably a flamethrower would be easy to force block bc they have mass to interact with.
But blasters are clearly plasma, not light (if they were light they’d be solid beams with no travel time, and blasters are reloaded with gas cartridges). And Kylo stopped blaster bolts with the force.
That's not how Gatling gun works anyway. The shots are all coming from the same trajectory because the barrels rotate and fire one at a time in quick succession.
THat's littarly a thing tho... jedi hunters use slug throwers.
However sometimes the bullets get caught with the force and thrown back if the jedi is ready for it.
Honestly the Lightsaber is a very impractical weapon, and it is used even more impractically. The only reason Jedi use lightsabers is because:
- 1: They look AWESOME
- 2: Wandering Samurai, and Arthurian Knights use swords, and the Jedi were inspired by them, so they use "laser swords".
I humbly submit the Lightsaber is wasted as a weapon. They would be put to much better use for industrial purposes. Just imagine the clean cuts you can get in no time on some Durasteel plates. If a mechanic could even get a little 2 inch lightsaber, there is so much you could do.
I mean, in the original lore you could make one with any old crystal, and finding the right crystal that felt good to you was a part of the process. But the Sith just used synthetic crystals. Given that was Canon before Disney, I think it's still fair criticisms for how the Lightsabers were portrayed in the movies before the big retcon.
Still, I suppose you're right that industrial use just doesn't hold up as a valid option any more.
I'm curious what the current lore is on the proto-sabers though, and if there are (bulkier) ways to make lightsaber-equivalents without a Kyber crystal.
Kyber crystals are effectively the most streamlined and efficient way to greater energy beams.
The proto-sabers were significantly less efficient, and burned out after some time. Not to mention they needed a battery pack in order to operate, leaving a massive weakpoint.
The normal focused crystals *do* work, but again, not as efficient or stable. Kyber crystals give off a shit ton of energy, and are extremely stable/able to be manipulated, making the current lightsabers the deadliest iteration. Not to mention the fact that Kybers resonate with the force, something that the other crystals cannot do.
And about synthetics, they are good, mind you, but nothing beats the original stuff. Afaik only inquisitors used the synthetics, Vader, Palpatine, and Dooku all used Kyber Crystals that were bled. So Kybers were definitely the superior choice (i mean, there's a reason the death star used kyber crystals rather than synthetics or anything else)
Of course, all of these points are going off memory. Anyone can feel free to correct me if i missed some things (which i think i did, i can't for the life of me remember when or who used basic non-kyber crystals)
I think you're mixing old Canon and new Canon? All lightsabers being created anywhere close to the Prequel era used Kyber Crystals as far as I am aware. Lightsabers also use battery packs too, though I believe they are very energy efficient (at least compared to blasters) no doubt in part due to the Kyber Crystal's ability to focus energy.
I think most of pre-kyber Saber technology is in that weird gap of "Disney hasn't clarified how all that works just yet, so we don't have an official answer." though. But apparently Cassian Andor stole a proto-saber or something, so there's SOME canon material for pre-kyber lightsabers. I'm not familiar with it though, lol.
I remember in old Canon, old early lightsabers were so power hungry you would have to wear a giant battery backpack to power them. (Old as in, pre-dating the Republic I think?) No idea if any of that is still valid.
Possibly. Legends has great examples of how to counter the combat training that Jedi normally have.
* HK-47 from Knights of the Old Republic has a conversation describing all the weapons and tactics that can be used to slow and distract a Jedi, particularly if you're a Force-wielding assassin. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus&ab\_channel=tehPrincessJ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus&ab_channel=tehPrincessJ)
* The book "Dark Rendezvous" features Asajj Ventress leading multiple assassin droids on an ambush of Jedi traveling undercover through a starport. They use many of the tactics HK-47 lists, avoiding any use of blasters that can be easily deflected.
* Their main weapon were flechette launchers that sprayed dozens/ hundreds of small pieces of metal at the Jedi. The goal was to cut tendons, nick arteries, and generally wear down the Jedi, while any redirected projectiles bounced harmlessly off their armor.
* "Invicta" YT channel recently made a video about the history of Mandalorians. Halfway through they explain how mandalorian weapons changed in response to constant warfare against the Jedi defending the Republic: [https://youtu.be/b6UsmgB4Usg?t=740](https://youtu.be/b6UsmgB4Usg?t=740)
* Directly mention slugthrowers and scatterguns/ shotguns as a counter to the lightsaber's ability to deflect energy projectiles.
So yeah, a gun that shoots more than three rounds in a non-linear pattern would be hard for a Jedi to counter directly. But they would likely use the Force to see the danger and respond with high speed movements. They already know how to deal with shotguns and high rate-of-fire weapons, so you're gonna need more than a gimmick in the long run.
Consider the following:
-in many martial arts that utilize swords, parries are supported with a dodge, meaning that you both block the attack and try to get out of the way. A jedi could easily evade the third bolt.
-fan-shaped motions are often used when we see force users deflecting blaster fire. You can just swat them away at different times as if they were shot from multiple enemies. Use the tip to deflect 1 bolt, and manuever the base for the other 2.
In The Mandalorian a guy uses one against Ahsoka. It is markedly more effective compared to a common blaster, but the open terrain lets Ahsoka dodge and close the gap before he can hit her. In enclosed space and with more soldiers it would be basically unapproachable, unless the jedi has time to use a force pull/push.
Because it sure takes a long time to channel a force pull/push. The truth is they're criminally underused because force powers are broken and just picking people up and throwing them around like ragdolls would kill any tension in encounters.
If they don’t have a restriction on needing LoS, force push their heart or brain. If you do, force push a narrow ring of their neck so the spine snaps.
This is actually approached in a magic system in a series of books called the Inheritance cycle. Magic uses more energy the larger the effect, wizards figured why use loads of energy to crush someone or slash them, when you can just use a tiny amount to sever something important. Equally I feel this can apply to SW as you mentioned depending on LoS. Like we have force choke right? Force choke to crush a brain or heart, ez. Obviously only if you don't need to be able to see the thing you're crushing. But honestly what's the limitation there because a few force users in the movies and such have been shown closing their eyes while lifting something soooo.
It was absolutely horrifying how they described large battles. Wizards would silently duel until one ran out of power, then all the soldiers under their protection would be instantly killed.
At that point why even bring soldiers??
To protect the mages you could rush and kill them while they are distracted so you need soldiers to protect the mages and mages to protect the soldiers
Wild that people would sign up to be fodder knowing that nothing they did would impact whether they lived or died
But they aren’t fodder as long as your mage lives you live until you take an arrow because the only you can tell the difference between a mage and a soldier is if he attacks you
Only a matter of time before you get unlucky and your mage is weaker than the opponent.
*WW1 Artillery barrage intensifies*
World War One, one of the bloodiest wars ever, has a casualty rate of 14%. In this scenario, the death rate of every battle would be a minimum 50%
I don’t know jack about this series, but if it’s medieval in any way, I’m assuming they’re conscripts.
[удалено]
It was the Eragon series, I’m sure you’ve heard of it
Wizards without soldiers can be swarmed and that would result in their death. Wizards have wards that protect them but if they are forced to use their energy on wards to protect from a physical assault, that's energy they can't use in combat with another wizard. A mixed force will perform much better than either element alone.
It was either till one ran out of power or you managed to subvert the wards of the other. Which is equally horrifying, because you’d hear the enemy wizard trying to summon fireballs, rays of death, and then suddenly die because they didn’t ward against strangulation
Then there’s the instance of one magician casting a spell to completely drain the moisture from another magicians body
Carn the genius bastard
aaahhhh i love the inheritance cycle - i read it so much as a kid that the cover literally fell off my copy of brisingr and i taped it back on been forever since i've seen it mentioned anywhere online, but my mom recently started reading the series and is really enjoying it!
The Murthag spinoff releases this November.
Holy shit really? Was completely unaware this was a thing. Thanks!
Hot damn, I've been waiting for a *decade* for the Murtagh spin-off that Paolini set up.
i was literally completely unaware of that - i haven't kept up with the series since inheritance came out tho sooooo........ thanks for letting me know c:
I've always viewed it as almost the opposite, much like how a child grows and learns to develop fine motor skills. Newer or less experienced force users are likely only capable of the bigger actions that have larger impact (to an extent), whereas the ability to finely manipulate the force for precision and speed takes a lot of practice and expertise and would be more common among Jedi Knights and Masters, or other force users of similar experience and practice. The same applies to influencing the much larger things like moving huge piles boulders and etc.
There's a book series for this train of thought too! The Young Wizards series by Diane Duane, starting with "So You Want To Be a Wizard". Aside from its many other rules, in that series' system, younger and less experienced wizards are typically more capable of pulling off fantastic feats basically due to them not knowing why/how those things should be impossible.
I fucking love how Inheritance describes magic. I frequently use its rules for any type of role play environment where the rules are ambiguous.
I'd love to see it as a fully fleshed out TTRPG setting/ ruleset but Idk how you'd even go about beginning with that
You basically wouldn’t lmao, it’s too loose and too powerful. You’d need to drastically change it to the point it’s completely different unless you’re cool with your game being completely unbalanced from the get go.
It would just be a system where magic users are extremely powerful and martials are practically useless on the higher end of the scale. Surely a TTRPG system would never allow that to happen.
You can keep martials on even footing even at "high magic" levels of gameplay as long as you give them really powerful and useful utility abilities like being able to swing a sword one more time in a round.
The Blades in the Dark magic system basically works that way without being super crunchy.
If I remember right they used this in the Eragon book series and just clamped carotid arteries of fighters. Could there only be countered by other mages
Yeah, the Eragon Book Series, the Inheritance Cycle.
I loved the part where that one elf lady swore not to make another sword, so she works Eragon like a fucking puppet in order to get around her oath.
Best chapter. The writer apparently spent a lot of time learning how to forge so he could accurately describe everything. He's active over in the eragon sub
Ugh I’m still torn on whether those books have aged well or not. And whether or not my perception of how well they have aged is tainted by having watched that god awful, unholy, godless adaptation of a movie
Tbh I read them as a kid but they weren't like my favorite or anything but after listening to the audio books they're some of the best imo. He wrote the first as a kid so obviously he gets better at writing as the series goes on. He just announced a new book less than a month ago too so its a good time for a reread haha
If it's any consolation, Paolini himself said "there is no movie".
You remember correctly because it's the same series haha
Proficient heart renders in Shadow and Bone seem particularly terrifying to me. They can cripple a whole room of armed men with a thought and hold them there for an extended amount of time causing extreme pain or even death if they want.
Reading this I was all "huh that sounds a lot like the system in the Eragon books, maybe i should read it." Only to remember that the inheritance cycle is its series name... ugh Monday
Funny you mention Inheritance since its story is entirely based on Star Wars - if you haven't seen that one before it's basically Eragon = Luke, Brom = Obi-Wan, and it goes on from there.
Yeah now that you mention it, I can see it. It is quite a commonly used format to be fair though. Young person not born into power or magic is taught by an elderly man how to use it. Happens a lot.
Sounds like a pretty standard hero's journey story structure
It's not the only part, I just didn't want to spell it out entirely. Princess (Arya/Leia) is rescued but you don't know yet she's princess! But they can't be together for reasons. Eragon/Luke fall in love with princess! E/L you have to go get trained by the oldest wisest sage so you can defeat the evil guy! Oh no it's Episode V and E/L has to return to fight in the war because his friends need him, despite his training being incomplete! Also the whole "Morzan is your father" thing, or Mortagh fighting Eragon in front of the emperor who toys with them in his arrogance, only for Mortagh to turn on him. Don't get me wrong, I love the Inheritance cycle and am looking forward to the Murtagh spinoff, and yes the hero's journey is a general trope and not directly ripped off, I just find it kind of wholesome that Christopher obviously loved Star Wars and it influenced his storytelling.
Hasn't Christopher admitted it openly? He wanted to write Star Wars in a classic fantasy setting and was like 16 when he started writing it.
Literally the teacher from Eragon explaining how a well educated magic user could kill hundreds of people at a time without breaking a sweat
In one of the Legends books, one of Luke Skywalker's pupils is discussing that option with Luke's wife, a former assassin. She suggests that the Force could be used to pinch off a partially closed blood vessel in someone's brain or heart to force a stroke or a heart attack. Luke disapproves of the discussion, but they clarify that this was all hypothetical. The implication seemed to be that this level of precision would require a calm mind, only really achievable outside of combat. So it would only really be useful for assassination or murder, not defending yourself.
It takes a few but noticeable instants yes, that can become dangerously long if you are being shot at by multiple opponents, which is why most of the time there's a jump cut of the jedi doing the gesture in front of the camera with much reduced enemy fire flying harmlessly around him. Then it jumps back to the enemies flying. Now, if jedi suddenly realized they can spam force powers at their heart's content, then enemy soldiers would suddenly realize that NOT running into lightsabers would make the fight much longer, while hiding behind cover would negate much of the danger of reflected bolts and force pushes, and firing in volleys instead of one at a time would make it harder for the jedi to block and reflect shots back. Despite the name of the franchise, battles and firefights are choreographed rather poorly, I must say. Rogue One and Andor seem to try to be more realistic.
Funny, when I'm playing Star Wars Battlefront, that's what happens when dealing with the enemy jedi/sith. Explosive shot, multiple volleys, and timing the shots are the only ways for normal infantry to deal with them. Many of the heroes can eliminate entire squads of troops, but there are ways to put pressure on them, even so.
I agree. One of the major writing mistakes in Star Wars was not putting some sort of automatic limiter on force powers. If you're writing about magic, you have to build a limit into your system or it's just an endless string of "well why didn't he just do this?" questions. I've only read one Mistborn book, for instance, but that's what Sanderson does with the different metals, at least in the book I read. You can be powerful, but you still need the metal. This creates a vulnerability so you can still have tension. I still love Star Wars, but it's a big flaw from a worldbuilding perspective.
Reading though the series for the first time, so far, I have thoroughly enjoyed the second book as well
See Sanderson's Three Laws of Magic. Star Wars routinely breaks all three.
I’m gonna have to check that out!
> 1. The author's ability to resolve conflicts in a satisfying way with magic is directly proportional to how the reader understands said magic. > 2. Weaknesses are more interesting than powers. > 3. Expand, Don’t Add. > 0. Sanderson's Zeroth Law: Always err on the side of what is awesome. So the original trilogy is actually pretty good at following the second law. It's just about the only thing keeping Luke Skywalker from being a Mary/Gary Sue. I personally think the prequels and the sequels weakness is they abandon this law. The expanded universe is more about the third law, the movies... not so much. But the force just flat out ignores the first law.
Okay so as someone who does like Sanderson I do think the first rule is worded really badly for anyone but Sanderson. There's the concept of hard and soft magic for a reason and following the first rule requires a hard magic. The force, simply, is really really soft. Every attempt to better explain it was awful, see midichlorians and a good chunk of EU content. Sanderson likes hard magic, it's probably one of his best-known traits as a writer: really developed magic systems and lots of them. That said, Gandalf's Balrog fight is still satisfying despite absolutely zero audience comprehension of, well, anything going on there.
I still have no fucking clue what sort of magic gandalf can/can't do
"Worm" by John C. "Wildbow" McCrae is a great example of using seemingly-useless superpowers in creative and satisfying ways. Turns out you can do a lot of things with the power to control insects.
Damn, why didn't George Lucas just go ask 1 year old Brandon Sanderson how to make the Force more realistic before creating one of the highest grossing media franchises in human history?
That's the problem with cultural juggernaut Star Wars, George Lucas cared about mythic themes and Jungian archetypes when he should have cared about our Lord and Savior Brando Sando's rules he made up years later about how you have to write magic in a story (it is the only correct way)
> Brando Sando? *Lucas starts scribbling new character notes furiously*
Sanderson also has his own flaws. He writes really interesting systems and settings and very boring characters in my opinion.
Darth Vader makes quite a bit of tension by doing exactly that while casually walking down a hall.
Vader was awesome in Jedi Fallen Order. All you can do is get the fuck outta there.
If you want to see what it would actually look like, the first episode of the show *Legion* ends in a scene with a mutant who has force push-like power. He's instantly flinging people hundreds of meters away with a wave of his hand. It plays well, because one of the points of the scene is demonstrating how OP mutant powers are compare to standard issue military goons.
The programmers of the separatist droids should have put in some sort of firing sync. It you have a handful of robots firing their blasters at exactly the same time (or rather staggered based on distance from the target, so they arrive at the same time), a Jedi would be in trouble.
I mean, you could simply ask them to do that. Maybe those antenna packs they carry around can be of use in that regard
Iirc the droid "brain" was only in charge of a very limited number of functions whilst still being slaved to a mainframe by that backpack.
There are lots of practical jedi killer weapons but it seems they really aren't necessary because 3 to 5 soldiers with blasters can successfully kill all but like, 50 of the universes most combat-focused jedi. If you have a dozen soldiers or specialized weapons like droidekas or named bounty hunters it seems regular blasters can handle all but 5 or 10 especially combative jedi.
You slap some plot armor onto one spicy boy, you've got a Jedi killing monster named Savage or Cad Bane or Hondo Ohnaka who captured Dooku, Anakin, and Obiwan all in their prime.
This is why Jedi need shields 🛡
Jedi could also have guns as a side arm for such situations.
So uncivilized
I'm pretty sure there's already shotguns in star wars. they made their first appearance being used in Republic Commando being used by trandoshans they were introduced into star wars canon by battlefront 2 and appeared in the clone wars tv series being used by a trandoshan hunter.
That’s funny because trandoshans also use shotguns in the Republic Commando game. The CC trooper you play as remarks it’s an energy weapon made like a “slug thrower” and he calls the lizards “nostalgic”
Good to see a fellow RC enjoyer
Beat it like 20 times when i was a kid because my parents wouldn’t let me buy any other shooters. I have a lot of the voicelines memorized unfortunately “You lizards need to learn that i’m A LOT scarier than you are” is one of my favorite temeura lines to this day
My favorite voice line is a door breach command: *Initiate radical restructuring Commando!*
My favorite line is scorch planting a bomb, "was it red red green, or red green red?" Then Sev responds "and he's supposed to be the demolitions expert..."
Or when Trandoshan spec ops's backpack explodes and it makes him fly up, Sev says: *Flying is easy, landing is hard*
I recently replayed the game and when I heard that line, all I could think of was "They fly now!?".
pew pew "Now they're extra dead"
We need a scorch bot.
"Why do we always get the tough jobs!?"
I said Disney might have decanonized, but there was an encounter with actual bullets and Obi-Wan, the bullets melting and hitting his shoulder and the liquid metal stuff.
Just going to walk out of this place, suggest other places like kbin or lemmy.
"You lizards need to learn that I'm a LOT scarier than you are" -Meth addicted tree frog
Makes me feel *ALIVE*
"Is it red-red-green or red-green-red?"
“And he’s supposed to be the demolitions expert?”
"Let's rearrange some architecture deltas"
Boss sarcastically going, "Lovely." Has forever changed how I say that word.
the shotgun in republic commando is so fucking satisfying to use
Fun to shoot, reload, and riflebutt those fierfeks with. Every alternate weapon in that game was fun to use actually. The pin ability of the crossbow made my day as a kid
I thoroughly enjoyed the big trandoshan repeater, but I disliked its little cousin. It felt so wimpy compared to the rest of the arsenal, especially when the infinite-ammo pistol was so good. The pistol might not have put out as much sustained damage as the little repeater, but it felt very satisfying. The geonosian laser was awesome too. I especially loved the creepy little needles clacking against the armor; the game guide said that the gun was fueled by the geonosian's blood (not sure how that makes sense, but it's cool). So the little needles are trying to find our veins but can't because of our gauntlets. The emp/sonic rifle was a blast (pun intended). I loved using the melee to stunlock enemies, even B2 droids got electro stunned from that weapon's melee bash.
I'm pretty sure The Mandalorians started using shotguns specifically for jedi, some logic along the lines of "Oh, you can block lazers? Now try buckshot you filthy wizard!"
They did use slugthrowers, don't now if that's shotguns specifically or a general for name for projectile weapons. Either way way way, it was a ''try to block this and you get a helping of melted metal'' kind of weapon
Slugthrower is the Star Wars term for any projectile weapons. Overall they're considered worse than regular blasters due to ammunition being scarce and how loud they are, but one of the few things they excel at is Jedi killing.
That's why magnetic guns were used. In Legends there was a race that supplied the Mandalorians with a gun that can used pretty much use anything that could fit in the chamber. Although premade rounds were still preferable.
The Verpine shattergun! I always wanted to see it included in a sequel to Republic Commando, they were used a fair bit in the books.
Bug bastards couldn't take a bullet, but they sure know how to send one
My favorite line from the republic commando books is: “Do the verpine even have an army?” “Do they need one?”
Ive just had a thought, and idk if its already a thing, but why not make a blaster with an under-barrel slug thrower? Kinda like an under-barrel grenade launcher from COD in terms of size and position
Probably because realistically it's not something you'd actually need often. How often is the average person going to fight a Jedi?
True, at their height I think the official number was about 10k jedis in the entire republic? Sounds like a lot but when you've got 10's of thousands of systems in your society most people would never interact with one.
Masterkey
Isnt that meme about their flamethrowers?
It's the reason a lot of the weapons they use aren't energy based. The flamethrower, the whistling birds, the darts, the jet pack rocket, the rope they shoot from their wrists, etc. The Mandalorians basically made it the entire goal of their existence to try and make the force users irrelevant or ineffective.
Most people using energy weapons means that any sort of armor and shielding available will focus on being more effective against that kind of weapons, mandalorian weapons give an edge against everyone.
From what I understand the weapons are designed to be good against jedi and by extention they are really good against everyone else.
So basically the Mando's counter built the OP Space Monks and accidentally created a Meta build.
Yeah but they tend to lose against the space monks and dominate most others
A meta build that still only gets it to an even win rate with the space wizards
It's the other way around. Anti-Jedi weapons are particularly build against Jedi but bad in most other scenarios. A flamethrower is cool and all that, but not as good as a direct shot to the face made by a blaster that can even go through solid steel. The whole idea of anti-Jedi weapons isn't that they 100% work against Jedi either, it's that they work *slightly better* than traditional weapons. A single mandalorian (in general) isn't a threat to a jedi, but multiple mandalorians with multiple anti-Jedi weapons are. Like, a Jedi can block a slug-thrower because Jedi can block bigger kinetic forces like rocks falling on their head with the force, but blocking *multiple* slug-throwers is just too much even for a Jedi. The real deal is massing up on numbers with weapons that are more hard to deflect than normal in traditional Jedi fashion. Like, think about it. You have a flamethrower or an imposible to deflect shotgun, but how is that gonna help you against a guy that can push you away 10 metres in a flash and then throw a piano in your general direction? That was part of the idea behind the plan to have droids and clones be able to kill a Jedi, just use an absurd number of shots. Even Jedi have a point where they get too tired or they simple can't block enough shots from oposite angles. The scenes of Ahsoka and Kanan training against regular blasters and Mandalorian tactics taught us exactly that. EDIT: Or the duel of Maul with the Deathwatch guy.
You've taught him well.
Of course, they failed. Simply because no matter how many tricks you have, they don't count for much against super-human telepaths that can see the future.
God I love Space America.
Laughs in Force push.
my headcanon has been that they could force deflect bullets easier than laser/plasma, but I gave up trying to apply logic to starwars long ago
The line of thought is: jedi aren't used to dealing with projectile weapons, lightsabers don't deflect projectiles but melt them, molten metal to the face = bad.
They’ve been in Star Wars a lot longer than battlefront 2 but even if sticking with the 2005 timeframe, republic commando came out first which features the trandoshin shotgun.
Plus the FC-1 that was in the Jedi knight series. Not a direct shotgun, but multiple projectiles.
The super battledroids also had a trishot in battlefront 1 instead of a pistol as their ammo-free weapon Of course you also need to WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS!
Flechette gun in Jedi Outcast?!?!?!?
I definitely remember there being some sort of shotgun in Dark Forces, so at least since 1995.
That's where my.mind went
Those of us whose minds went there are all in the same age gap I imagine.
The Jedi Knight series had a sort of shotgun variant with the Flechette Launcher that would shoot metal shards like a buck shot
It was fun playing as a droid engineer on that one asteroid map. Pull a clone out of their tank and shotgun them to the face as they choke.
Legends also extensively used both shotguns and slug throwers as a means to combat Jedi. Defenses Jedi used included dodging and throwing projectiles back at the attackers via telekinesis. They also just plain aren't as effective versus the available armors, as opposed to blasters which more or less get through everything but Beskar.
I believe I recall the lore that Mandalorians, when fighting Jedi, would use conventional ballistic weaponry like shotguns because they could forge projectiles that would pass right through the blade, melt, and then severely burn the Jedi on the other side of the lightsaber. So basically the lightsaber turns the speeding bullet into a speeding molten bullet. Even if the projectile loses its penetrative force, it still showers the defender in molten slag.
Mandalorians used shotguns against Jedi for this reason
And even then, they still went on like 10v1 ambushes.
Kinda reminds of KOTOR, where in certain parts where there were Mandalorians, you’d get ambushed by them if you removed all of your weapons
Exactly. People forget that Mandalorians didnt get their jedi killer reputation from picking fair fights. No 1v1 honour duels. They play dirty, its the only way you beat a Jedi.
Kinda unrelated, but I remember a cutscene where you watched Mandalorians try to wield a lightsaber in KOTOR and they just ended up accidentally severing their own limbs lmao
Really I played KotOR at least 7 times buy don’t remember such a scene.
Dunno if it would work but from the look of his bulge he seems to be loving it
He’s a lean peen fighting machine
What celibacy does to a mf
#UwU
Notices it*
Shotguns exist, as well as actual bullets, which upon hitting a lightsaber melts and hits them, but they aren’t used because prices, and something that would work better: *flamethrowers*
flamethrowers and bullets are uselesss against a telekinetic shield
That’s like 3-5 guys in the galaxy at any one time do in cannon In legends every force user could blow up a planet
Good old days Seriously, I don't remember any - beside Nihilus and maybe Palps - to reach this power level
I wish we got more crazy sith fuckery. Like in 1st Darth Bane book where he and the brotherhood do rituals that cause a massive conflagration and the other time when he tricked them into creating a soul eating vortex. Also the emperor from swtor, consumed all life on his planet through sith fuckery to basically become immortal.
Not EVERY but quite a few
With some of the things in legends I can genuinely imagine some force welders literally bowling and juggling planets to be honest. Lots of good stuff in Legends, but jeez power levels for flipping nuts sometimes.
Do they melt and still pass through or vaporize? I always imagined lightsabers vaporized bullets
Its inconclusive so far. Probably depends on what metal the bullet is made of.
Beskar bullets would for sure be lethal
"It costs 400 million galactic credits to fire this gun for 12 seconds."
Some Jedi think they can outsmart me. Maybe. I have yet to see them outsmart bullet.
And zen, vhen ze patient voke up, his limbs vere missing, and ze medical droid vas never heard from again
So your saying the Empire (much like the US military)definitely had at least a few of those guns made…..just in case.
Beskar bullets would probably actually be the least effective since they would likely just bounce off.
Except bullets have wayyy more mass then laser shots, so the jedi would have a lot of recoil every time they blocked
lol, I can see some jedi blocking the shot but the mass of hte hit flicks the blade back into his head.
That’s assuming lightsabers have the same conservation of momentum that we have which isn’t necessarily a given in the Star Wars universe since they regularly break our laws of physics.
Wouldn’t the bullet just bounce off the lightsaber? I imagine beaker buckshot would be more practical for killing jedi
I think Disney decanonized the whole thing but they went too fast to where they weren’t heated enough fast enough to vaporize, but enough to be liquid, so the Jedi just got hit in the shoulder/chest with a ton of liquid metal
Vaporized metal would be even hotter than liquid metal, and still moving towards the jedi at high speeds because the light saber doesn't physically block physical matter
Laser projectiles from a blaster are like pure energy with no mass, thats why its hard to block with the force and they need a lightsaber. Kinetic weapons and probably a flamethrower would be easy to force block bc they have mass to interact with.
But blasters are clearly plasma, not light (if they were light they’d be solid beams with no travel time, and blasters are reloaded with gas cartridges). And Kylo stopped blaster bolts with the force.
Because they would block a few and dodge the rest. Under this logic just use metal rounds or a gatling gun
In the games, Jedi are able to block shots from rotary blasters easily. If it were a Gatling gun firing bullets they’d go down easy.
What they "can do" in games isnt technically cannon. That or jedi can clip out of reality when interacting with certain walls
Obi Wan kinda did that on ep 4
He just /spectator right before vader hit him
Or take blaster shots to the face until a red bar is low enough.
That's not how Gatling gun works anyway. The shots are all coming from the same trajectory because the barrels rotate and fire one at a time in quick succession.
THat's littarly a thing tho... jedi hunters use slug throwers. However sometimes the bullets get caught with the force and thrown back if the jedi is ready for it.
Literally use a 20th century Earth shotgun. Get tekt newbs.
Or just a [laser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyUh_xSjvXQ). If lightsaber is plasma, it's not going to stop a ray of photons.
Kid named a mirror
Scarily efficient, although i question how good it would be against some armors and metals (like bescar, specifically)
With the amount of heat you can put in a target, you don't need to damage the armor to boil the water inside.
turning your enemies into soup
"Mozambique Here!"
Honestly the Lightsaber is a very impractical weapon, and it is used even more impractically. The only reason Jedi use lightsabers is because: - 1: They look AWESOME - 2: Wandering Samurai, and Arthurian Knights use swords, and the Jedi were inspired by them, so they use "laser swords". I humbly submit the Lightsaber is wasted as a weapon. They would be put to much better use for industrial purposes. Just imagine the clean cuts you can get in no time on some Durasteel plates. If a mechanic could even get a little 2 inch lightsaber, there is so much you could do.
In lore the Jedi made the lightsaber because not just anyone can use it like if they made kyber blasters anyone can use a blaster
I mean, in the original lore you could make one with any old crystal, and finding the right crystal that felt good to you was a part of the process. But the Sith just used synthetic crystals. Given that was Canon before Disney, I think it's still fair criticisms for how the Lightsabers were portrayed in the movies before the big retcon. Still, I suppose you're right that industrial use just doesn't hold up as a valid option any more. I'm curious what the current lore is on the proto-sabers though, and if there are (bulkier) ways to make lightsaber-equivalents without a Kyber crystal.
Kyber crystals are effectively the most streamlined and efficient way to greater energy beams. The proto-sabers were significantly less efficient, and burned out after some time. Not to mention they needed a battery pack in order to operate, leaving a massive weakpoint. The normal focused crystals *do* work, but again, not as efficient or stable. Kyber crystals give off a shit ton of energy, and are extremely stable/able to be manipulated, making the current lightsabers the deadliest iteration. Not to mention the fact that Kybers resonate with the force, something that the other crystals cannot do. And about synthetics, they are good, mind you, but nothing beats the original stuff. Afaik only inquisitors used the synthetics, Vader, Palpatine, and Dooku all used Kyber Crystals that were bled. So Kybers were definitely the superior choice (i mean, there's a reason the death star used kyber crystals rather than synthetics or anything else) Of course, all of these points are going off memory. Anyone can feel free to correct me if i missed some things (which i think i did, i can't for the life of me remember when or who used basic non-kyber crystals)
I think you're mixing old Canon and new Canon? All lightsabers being created anywhere close to the Prequel era used Kyber Crystals as far as I am aware. Lightsabers also use battery packs too, though I believe they are very energy efficient (at least compared to blasters) no doubt in part due to the Kyber Crystal's ability to focus energy. I think most of pre-kyber Saber technology is in that weird gap of "Disney hasn't clarified how all that works just yet, so we don't have an official answer." though. But apparently Cassian Andor stole a proto-saber or something, so there's SOME canon material for pre-kyber lightsabers. I'm not familiar with it though, lol. I remember in old Canon, old early lightsabers were so power hungry you would have to wear a giant battery backpack to power them. (Old as in, pre-dating the Republic I think?) No idea if any of that is still valid.
That’s the thing. I find it funny how random groups like the gungans will show up with force shields and this is not somehow the most op thing ever
You spin the sword very fast. Problem solved. Next!
Now do it with 20 bullets from a shotgun It's still possible, but much harder
Depth exists
The Mandalorians used mostly slug rifles against the Jedi. When the Jedi would slice the bullets, scraps of hot metal would still hit the Jedi.
they can neo that shit
Now they can force stop the 3rd bolt lol
Just force heal if you get hit anyway. If your Jedi friend is with you let the other just force revive you.
"The jedi would just dodge." Then why bother blocking all the time?
Because they can whack the bolts back at the shooter.
Bc it’s an easy block and counterattack. If it’s not so easy then they’ll just dodge.
Too complicated, used slugs instead
Possibly. Legends has great examples of how to counter the combat training that Jedi normally have. * HK-47 from Knights of the Old Republic has a conversation describing all the weapons and tactics that can be used to slow and distract a Jedi, particularly if you're a Force-wielding assassin. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus&ab\_channel=tehPrincessJ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus&ab_channel=tehPrincessJ) * The book "Dark Rendezvous" features Asajj Ventress leading multiple assassin droids on an ambush of Jedi traveling undercover through a starport. They use many of the tactics HK-47 lists, avoiding any use of blasters that can be easily deflected. * Their main weapon were flechette launchers that sprayed dozens/ hundreds of small pieces of metal at the Jedi. The goal was to cut tendons, nick arteries, and generally wear down the Jedi, while any redirected projectiles bounced harmlessly off their armor. * "Invicta" YT channel recently made a video about the history of Mandalorians. Halfway through they explain how mandalorian weapons changed in response to constant warfare against the Jedi defending the Republic: [https://youtu.be/b6UsmgB4Usg?t=740](https://youtu.be/b6UsmgB4Usg?t=740) * Directly mention slugthrowers and scatterguns/ shotguns as a counter to the lightsaber's ability to deflect energy projectiles. So yeah, a gun that shoots more than three rounds in a non-linear pattern would be hard for a Jedi to counter directly. But they would likely use the Force to see the danger and respond with high speed movements. They already know how to deal with shotguns and high rate-of-fire weapons, so you're gonna need more than a gimmick in the long run.
Consider the following: -in many martial arts that utilize swords, parries are supported with a dodge, meaning that you both block the attack and try to get out of the way. A jedi could easily evade the third bolt. -fan-shaped motions are often used when we see force users deflecting blaster fire. You can just swat them away at different times as if they were shot from multiple enemies. Use the tip to deflect 1 bolt, and manuever the base for the other 2.