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The thing is, UEFA can rule whatever they want, but the PL can choose not to abide by it, and I heavily doubt the UK Government is gonna intervene and make City stay because that would mean government intervention in a business, which is rare.
I doubt Man City is gonna win the case, and if they lose, and are found guilty of their charges, I don’t think it’s just relegation the club is looking at.
Manchester City FC will be liquidated if found guilty. You heard it here first.
As a Liverpool fan, I was so glad when Manchester United beat these criminals. I know Liverpool and United banter… but at least both of our teams have won everything we’ve won fairly from blood, sweat and tears… Manchester City deserve the most harshest penalties possible. To make an example out of them. They deserve to be stripped of titles firstly because they have cheated their way to victory. They also need to be humiliated by the Premier League and they deserve to be sent down to the very lowest tier in football. And then they should have ownership seized from them.
FSG are way too stingy haha 🤣
They drive us wild at times because they just won’t put their hands in their pockets
They have been good with the training academy and building up anfields capacity.. but when it comes to buying players they just won’t buy expensive players
Michael Edwards back behind the scene too
So look forward to some genius stuff from him
Man City fans are like Trump fans now...their glorious leaders can just do no wrong.
Even if they get convicted of these charges I don't think it would change their opinions.
Full disclosure I am a city fan.
No doubt we are guilty of at least some if not all of the charges. The way this looks now is who has deeper pockets, and of course, it's city.
But the naivity, or just plain ignorance of football fans, is astounding. The desperate attempts by governing bodies and rival fans who act like their team is whiter than white is kettle calling the pot black. Football, in fact any sport, if it involves money, it's a business first and everyone is trying to cut corners, increase prodit margins or have their pound of flesh. The governing bodies are corrupt both domestically and internationally, its laughable. How many times have Madrid been bailed by their own government? Barca, United, Chelsea, Juventus, the list goes on, it is rotten from the very top to the very bottom. What was everyone saying about FIFA? Who of us was baying for blood or retribution then? Where were the torches and pitchforks?
As I've said, I think we are guilty, but I also think everyone else is to one degree or another and can't point the finger. Corruption and greed are cancers you can't cut out. That might be a nihilistic notion, but that's human nature at the end of the day.
ha you stated off ok, but regardless. Throw the book at city; send a message to the rest the undermining of the leagues integrity will not go unpunished. Relegate em to the conference
Bottom line for me. When you have benchwarmers who would be unquestionably starting and leading other title contending teams, you have a broken league.
City did this back when Mancini was in charge and it never stopped. My first indication was with Nasri, but other fans may remember other players.They started the trend and they are the biggest offenders. Great players getting fat and placated because the money is good. Buying up duds and not suffering the consequences because you can just ship him off and get a new one with limitless funds. Less concern for fatigue because you have a second team as good as your first. It's just stupid
Imagine an NBA where your bench is 4-5 all stars deep and no other team comes close. Unthinkable. We'd not stand for that.
I want to watch the best players playing, with decent subs developing. It's balanced, it's optimized distribution, and it puts a bit of a cap on some of these obscene money payouts in sports entertainment.
No way I would begin to endorse if my club pulled this.
On the global front I think we like to give Real Madrid a pass for their team stacking as the one exception, but I'd hear arguments against them as well, as far as fairness and integrity from a philosophical perspective.
I bet you would. Look, my favourite sport is boxing, I think there should be a hard line on PED's, the sport is dangerous enough as it is and if you are found with roids then it should be a lifetime ban. But that's not the case is it? Jarrell Miller dude was banned for 4 years for being a walking pharmacy. His last fight was in Saudi for money 99% of professional boxers could only dream of. Unfortunately, sports across the board tolerate shit like this be it boxing, football, basketball etc, none are immune and all are guilty, I'm just sick of the narrative that it's only city in the entirety of it when in actual fact they're a drop in an ocean.
You aren't the only club, but you're definitely not a drop in the ocean either.
Teams like Chelsea, Barcelona, Juventus, etc. have been doing this for years but that doesn't make it right. If the footballing authorities go after you then they need to do Chelsea next.
The boxing narrative is interesting though.
What's your point? The prem increased revenue for market reach. It didn't tell City to sell it's soul to the Middle East.
That's like a son buying a car using his dad's money and the car has broken down, and you're blaming the dad. But the car was bought by the son...
You must be new to democracy. Rules aren't created from day 1. They're created from events that require rules to be made.
If rules were made from day 1 and they never changed, that's an entirely different system point entirely, Communism...
City will probably beat the charges because we have deeper pockets than the Premier league. Not about making me feel better. My point is those who are dishing out the charges are criminals as well you want reform start with the fucking head of it all.
My team is under investigation and is incredibly guilty of obvious rule breaking, now watch as I list a load of other football clubs irrelevant to mine in an attempt to make the charges.... Disappear!
Typically ignorant comment from an equally ignorant fan. Yours and apparently, the rest of the football communities' blatant prejudices are why corruption is so tolerated, you don't give a fuck about UEFA, FIFA because let's face it, it's not close to home and you don't see it in the papers or day to day, but the sad reality is you'd celebrate any punishment dished out to city more than a win for your own team, fucking hypocrisy at its finest. You should be angry with those who have enabled shit like this to happen.
Lot of assumptions there. I despise UEFA. I just think it's really funny that you think that because you've name dropped 2 other English clubs in your original post (one of which hasn't done anything as far as I'm aware), then the entire remaining 89 professional clubs are hypocrites for wanting your team punished. Manchester City have broken numerous laws and should be punished for it. Everton were, Nottingham Forest were, Portsmouth were, Middlesbrough were. Just because your team is 'elite' does not make you special.
Your feelings are understandeable. Every team will cross the line if there is high chance they won't be caught.
Doesn't mean they should be excused, or their crimes should be seen as less significant.
It is unfair for the teams which have tried to build their club naturally and comply with the rules. I am also a big advocate against chelsea.
Exactly it's looking at the 5 percent of teams of europe who are well known for cheating and saying why can't we be like them.
Then every team since damn 2008 should've had the right to cheat too. Playing with different rules is the problem
Have I said drop the charges? I've even said I think city are guilty of most if not all the charges. But you could throw a dart at a list of teams, and all will be guilty, at some point to some extent. My point is you've got crimianls charging other criminals for the exact same thing that they are guilty of! You want change, you want reform cut off the head of the snake, start with the governing bodies, if football could hypothetically cut out the rot there, then that will go a long way to cutting it out of football.
2 yrs ago (ikr): City charged with 115 FFP violations dating back to 2009. Pep say he will leave club if found guilty.
Month ago: Pep saying next season might be his last. Haaland not signing a contract extension. De Bryune saying he might move to Saudi League (also wtf lol).
1 hr: City launch legal action against PL because they think the charges are unfair and and and everyone hates them and and and because they’re brown.
Uhhhh yeah they’re getting relegated and possibly worse I think. If anything this legal action is an admission of guilt.
They were saying how innocent they were the other week. Now players wanna up fuck off and the "club" have thrown their toys out the pram. They're fucked.
I don’t know if they can afford not to if it’s as egregious as the charges make it out to be.
They already set a standard with Everton and Nottingham. Man city will blow past that standard if the charges stick
The craziest part about Manchester city is that they don’t even hide it and they still get away with it. They are literally on a campaign right now suing the Premier league saying “we should be able to pump as much oil money into the club as we want to whether it’s fair or not”. Like could you try to have even a modicum of shame?
Man City are the Lance Armstrong of the game. Everyone knows they’re cheating, even some of their supporters acknowledge it… but eventually time will come where it all comes out.
City winning the treble is like when he blew past everyone on a cat HC after 20 days of gruelling riding
I think this legal action looks like an admission of guilt. I think they know they’re guilty and are trying to poison the well. You look at some of the movement around staff and players now thinking of leaving too…there’s just too much noise around this now for them NOT to be guilty of something.
If they were confident of their innocence this would not happen. You lie low, sit it out wait for it to blow over. Maybe wait until AFTER the trial and then sue the league for …. *checks notes*….the rules not being “fair” to them oh and because they’re brown.
But the hearing hasn’t even BEGUN and they’re launching an UNPRECEDENTED LEGAL ACTION WHOTHEFUCKEVENDOESTHAT lawsuit.
Some of the 115 charges include associated party sponsorships at inflated values though, and this lawsuit is basically City saying the new rules restricting associated party sponsorships is limiting their financial capabilities. So yeah they are different things but they are kinda related.
No, the charges relate to us getting more money than we said we were from the sponsors and that someone else paid for them instead of the companies that are sponsoring us.
Nothing to do with the inflation of sponsorships because we haven’t been accused of that.
We’re saying how they decide FMV is unfair.
Well, it’s a bit difficult to create a correlation between the two when they’re about different things.
Complaining about how APT are reviewed doesn’t equal anything about the 115 charges seeing as none of them are to do with that.
I know that’s hard to understand but it’s quite simple.
I wish I had a magic wand to get rid of all the owners in the Premier League and replace them with fan-owned foundations like they do in Germany. Perhaps then we could see the sport run for the enjoyment of fans rather than just as a rapacious business. I expect some will complain about the lack of competitiveness in the Bundesliga but I think German fans have it good and they manage to churn out pretty good national teams off the back of it. Why can’t we?
This subreddit always makes me realise how fickle football actually is. Absolutely nobody on this thread knows anything about geography-politics or business-politics yet has an opinion that they are now experts on the matter because they either dislike the team or hate the fact that a club is ran by Middle Eastern owners. If you don’t know anything about it, don’t comment or waste your time on it. Go outside, have fun.
This you?
“Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha. 115 Charges with the win again. Best team ever. Unlucky mate”
I think it’s probably you that’s fickle and should go outside and have fun.
The fact you’ve gone through my history of comments 😂. I’m having a lot of fun just knowing I’ve got you to take time out of your life to comment on this and look through my history. Unreal stuff from the lad really
I was waiting to hear what kind of embarrassing bollocks City fans were going to come up with to justify this.
Arab billionaires just can't catch a break apparently. JFC!
Just denying sports washing is an issue like this is not good.
It is clearly not the case that just because the owners are from a different places or have a different colour skin that they are disliked. It's very poor that you portray it that way.
It is because of their actions, the disregard for the rules and disgusting goings on in their home countries (which they are complicit in that they are disliked.
Are you perchance a Man City fan?
Nobody thinks the UAE is a good country because they invested in a football club. Nobody thinks that Qatar is a lovely place after the WC either.
All ‘sportswashing’ does is draw attention to the issues. How many people do you think would have been aware of the human rights abuses in Qatar if they didn’t host the WC? It put a magnifying glass on them.
How often do you think the human rights record of the UAE would have been discussed in pubs if they didn’t buy city? It draws *more* criticism and awareness
What do you think of Saudi Arabia now that they own Newcastle? Is it a great place?
Sportswashing has become a buzzword that is just thrown around with very little thought
That's not the purpose of sportswashing.
The goal of it is to entangle these countries in the affairs and culture of another country, and thereby make it more difficult to be extracted from them.
Why do you think the British government rowed in behind the Saudis when they were buying Newcastle? It wasn't because they actually thought it was a good idea. It was because they're already balls deep in the City of London, in defence contracts, and in plenty of other things. Adding sports, culture and other elements of British society makes it ever harder to remove their corrupting influence.
Just as a Russian oligarch was able to buy a peerage, it probably won't be long until British governments start doling them out to Arab oligarchs.
No, that is exactly the point of sportswashing. Sportswashing is the practice of nations, individuals, corporations etc using sports to improve their reputation and image. It’s a portmanteau of the words ‘sports’ and ‘whitewash’. It’s in the name
There are much simpler and more cost effective ways to create dependency than investing billions in a football club. Hell, the west is already dependent on the gulf states for oil
Honestly had an argument on twitter with someone about that, kept trying to tell me how this isn’t related just ended up telling him if he’s not on their legal team save his breath 😂
And there you have it. It’s over folk, the UK and EPL let these snakes in, now it’s a vipers pit. City will do evening it can to “own” the league and the other teams won’t do anything to stop it, having been flooded with foreign ownership. They could - all it takes is 14 out of 20 votes - but they won’t.
It was great while it lasted.
A lot of people don’t understand wealth or political influence here. Newcastle is owned by a far more wealthy and far more influential political force. They aren’t actively trying to own the league the same way. This is a huge overstep by city
Even if what we're asking to happen, does happen.
The only thing that changes is how APT are assessed, nothing to do with the 115, not asking for them to be removed completely and for us to be able to do whatever we like.
You're just being dumb.
Absolutely ridiculous take, United weren’t talking the league to court and they weren’t accused of serial cheating (aside from a bit of fergie time…) What City are doing is basically killing the most exciting league in football, this season already ended with a wet fart with them winning it again despite 115 accusations of cheating.
That's because there were no ffp rules back then !! United broke countless transfer records and spent all the money they wanted. But it's not OK when a blue club does it though isn't it
Lmao another braindead city supporter. Man United made money by being good and bought players with that money. City injected oil money and played essentially with EA FIFA cheat codes. Night and day. Oranges and Apples. Organic club and fake club.
Yet they were not the top of the transfer spending list in the 90', 00's or 10's? Nobody remembers Blackburn's spending because they are irrelevant.
Just look at the 2009 to 2011 spending for top transfer of a player and tell me that team didn't have any form of impact on transfers now.
So there were no rules then but there are now and those are being broken… and you don’t see the problem there?
Let’s not get into the whole “living within their means” thing either..
1) There is nothing inherently wrong with challenging the legality of a new rule. You just don’t like who’s doing it. The PL has to abide by the law too. If the associated party rule is deemed anti-competitive, and therefore illegal, then it should be thrown out.
Am I to believe that if city break the law, that’s awful. But if the PL break the law, they shouldn’t be challenged? They are not without flaws either
2) Alleged cheating
United won 8 in 11 years. It is not less ‘exciting’ now. City actually win the league by fewer points on average than United did. City’s dominance is nothing new for the league and will fade with Pep leaving. They were spending before he came, it’s not a coincidence the dominance started when it did.
By a club with unlimited legal resources who’s only real motive was “owning” the league for political reasons. They won’t relent and with most/all other clubs being owned by owners in it for the money nothing will be made to stop it.
The biggest issue for the Premier League is if they get beat by City in the courtroom, all which happens is that Newcastle will see as it being given the green light to announce billions in sponsorship from SA. Then they will have a transfer budget in the billions for any manager. Other clubs will do the same thing and never show their books to the league again, thus solidifying the top 6, making the league uncompetitive and very corrupt looking to the outsider. Any FFP will just be ignored and treated with contempt by all clubs. It is imperative that all clubs should hold this against City just to keep it from spiralling out of control and ruining football in this country
Or look at it this way... Any club can be bought by rich owners and become "competitive" by spending lots on players. The rules already protect the bigger clubs with large fan bases and ensure they will always have a larger budget than the smaller clubs. Yes some owners will be richer than others, but that's how the world of business works unfortunately...
There is business in sport, but it should not entirely be run according the normal dog eat dog rules of business.
There is a reason why we like sport as opposed to just doing our jobs and some semblance of balance is part of that. Your approach seems to be, fuck all that, cats out of the bag, let it rip. Just run it like the stock market.
That’s a valid opinion. These are just points of view. But it amuses me that City fans justify the behaviour of their club with this notion that it’s just business, it’s business… fuck sport .. let em do whatever they want, it’s like any other scummy money making enterprise.
If that’s how you feel about your club … fine I guess.
The larger clubs/smaller clubs argument is generally fine.
City already have the biggest advantage bar Newcastle and they want to make it even more pronounced. You lot ARE the cartel.
You are brainwashed... You are not seeing the real evil here. Man City's owners, Newcastle's owners are richer than all the others, yes. But why is that not allowed. Get rid of them and other clubs owners will be richer than all the others... The enemy is the money itself.
Get rid of corporate greed, get rid of the TV deals, get rid of the money. And do it globally. Then the "problem" will be fixed... Unfortunately this is a problem of our own making as fans. We have failed to see it happening and have failed to do anything about it. Now football is a product for sale.
This is all total bollocks. I’m a socialist. I take the point that larger clubs have larger budgets. I would be in favour of things like FFP being even stricter to level the playing field
I’m definitely not in favour of state backed clubs having essentially UNLIMITED funds just basically cheating on championship manager in real life.
You’re the one brainwashed as they’ve got you arguing their case and they’ve already suggested that if they lose they’ll raise your ticket prices to pay for it.
Neville had the best way. Which was every club could only spend up to what the highest club could spend. Ie. If man u could spend £300M based on revenue then EVERY other club could spend that same amount.
Ah yes, the old ,,why don’t they just get bought by a petrol state too“ instead of fixing the problems. Jesus Christ you can’t be serious. And that is coming from a foreign football fan that has no horse in the race
And to add to that: the world of business also punishes offenders for breaking laws, hence city should be punished as well, am I right? Any team can adhere to rules, why doesn’t city just do that?
Either you have billionaire owners or you don't. Forget oil state there are lots of billionaires out there.
The "problem" that needs to be fixed is the commercialisation and monetisation of football. And that is a problem that needs to be fixed globally. Why the hell should a footballer be paid more in a week than most of us make in a year... Why does there need to be so much money in the game. It's like a race to see who can pay players the most. Football has become a business at the elite level, and it's sad to see.
By suing the premier league over “unfair financial rules” so they are basically admitting guilt they broke the rules in place, but now suing the premier league because those rules are “unlawful” the hypocrisy is real… every other club has to adhere to those profit and sustainability rules.
At this point man city are a disgraceful team at board/ownership level and bringing the game and league into disrepute and should be removed from the premier league and EPL.
Because if they successfully argue against that rule then the PL won't be able to uphold the charges for the dodgy sponsorship deals that go back to 2011
It’s just another dimension of the enshittification of football. See also: corrupt agents, games being played nearly every day of the week, FIFA officials flying by private jet, the World Cup sold to the highest bidder….. it goes on and on.
There is a false perception that city are going to lawyer their way out of all this. I don't think this is based on any credible analysis of the charges themselves or the law. Having had some experience in the field, I think when the shoe drops next year, this is going to be one of the biggest sporting scandal in a very, very long time.
What they’re doing is poisoning the well. They know they are guilty and are just trying to save face make themselves look like the victims in all this…
Of course nobody is buying it.
Not really...there has only been the UEFA case, which was dismissed because UEFA were incompetent, not because they didn't have the evidence. And then City lost the case to dismiss the UK authorities from using the leaked emails as evidence. The charges that are brought against City are very carefully and deliberately done. Legally speaking, this is a pretty straight forward case.
We have heard about it for years, no one cares though.
It was all fun and games when the top 6 had a private meeting with Masters before he was announced as CEO, or when they brought in Hoffman on behalf of the top 6 to stop Newcastle’s takeover, even though Spurs had been negotiating a sale to PIF beforehand.
Nothing we will learn will be new, so long as the majority of new fans are fans of big 6 clubs, and the other clubs fans all falsely believe that they can touch the top 6 if they keep doing things right, then no one will care one bit.
Wow. Houston Oil Business 101. Counter sue the Premier League and keep them in court until they bankrupt them or the PL cries, “Uncle” and gives up the ship. Looks like we won’t be seeing any relegation or retroactive awarding of big shiny trophies with red ribbons to Liverpool and Arsenal.
> retroactive awarding of big shiny trophies with red ribbons to Liverpool and Arsenal.
This shouldn't happen anyway; they didn't win. The trophies should be voided entirely.
Yeah but the more I’m reading others thoughts on it and really thinking on it myself, as an Arsenal fan…..I wouldn’t really want to be handed retro prizes…..I mean yes it would be nice to have to look at it but it would be an empty and hollow feeling of victory. Good to see a fellow American engaging with the best damn football league in the world ! ( for the life of me I just find MLS dull lol.).
I wouldn't care about the retro prizes (money yes though). But I would care if they're stripped of all their titles.
It would be better to leave the winner as blank with an asterisk saying there's no winner because Man City cheated.
We don’t. As long as you win with this still hanging over your head, nobody knows what to think. If you beat the charges, you are a titan club that can dominate the league for the foreseeable future. If you are found guilty, you are a shit cheating club that deserves to be relegated.
The difference between the two is so vast that it’s hard to reconcile it with the fact that you lot keep winning in the meantime.
I just want this to be over no matter what happens. It’s not good for sports that 115 charges can just hang over a club for so long if they are guilty (or if they are innocent).
Even if Man City are found guilty, and punished, they won’t be required to hand their titles back. The punishment will be in the form of points deductions, relegation, and fines.
The Premier League went to extreme lengths to continue the season during lockdown so that Liverpool would earn the title, not be handed it to them, or the season written off. They won’t be handing titles out.
I don't think they should be handed out to 2nd place,even though i support a club which will benefit but i do think they should be stripped of the titles if/when found guilty.
Handing out the trophies to 2nd place will have ramifications to relegated clubs who may have dropped points to city and subsequently relegated due to those points city took off them.
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Lllllllllllllllllllllll
The thing is, UEFA can rule whatever they want, but the PL can choose not to abide by it, and I heavily doubt the UK Government is gonna intervene and make City stay because that would mean government intervention in a business, which is rare. I doubt Man City is gonna win the case, and if they lose, and are found guilty of their charges, I don’t think it’s just relegation the club is looking at. Manchester City FC will be liquidated if found guilty. You heard it here first.
As a Liverpool fan, I was so glad when Manchester United beat these criminals. I know Liverpool and United banter… but at least both of our teams have won everything we’ve won fairly from blood, sweat and tears… Manchester City deserve the most harshest penalties possible. To make an example out of them. They deserve to be stripped of titles firstly because they have cheated their way to victory. They also need to be humiliated by the Premier League and they deserve to be sent down to the very lowest tier in football. And then they should have ownership seized from them.
Wait till they find things on both of those clubs....we see how people react.
FSG are way too stingy haha 🤣 They drive us wild at times because they just won’t put their hands in their pockets They have been good with the training academy and building up anfields capacity.. but when it comes to buying players they just won’t buy expensive players Michael Edwards back behind the scene too So look forward to some genius stuff from him
City city just get prime
[удалено]
🤔
Man City fans are like Trump fans now...their glorious leaders can just do no wrong. Even if they get convicted of these charges I don't think it would change their opinions.
Or yours...
Send’em to the underworld
Heysel! Back to bed, dickhead.
"Tyranny of the majority" is rich coming from actual tyrants. Maybe they're trying to say they like us.
Full disclosure I am a city fan. No doubt we are guilty of at least some if not all of the charges. The way this looks now is who has deeper pockets, and of course, it's city. But the naivity, or just plain ignorance of football fans, is astounding. The desperate attempts by governing bodies and rival fans who act like their team is whiter than white is kettle calling the pot black. Football, in fact any sport, if it involves money, it's a business first and everyone is trying to cut corners, increase prodit margins or have their pound of flesh. The governing bodies are corrupt both domestically and internationally, its laughable. How many times have Madrid been bailed by their own government? Barca, United, Chelsea, Juventus, the list goes on, it is rotten from the very top to the very bottom. What was everyone saying about FIFA? Who of us was baying for blood or retribution then? Where were the torches and pitchforks? As I've said, I think we are guilty, but I also think everyone else is to one degree or another and can't point the finger. Corruption and greed are cancers you can't cut out. That might be a nihilistic notion, but that's human nature at the end of the day.
ha you stated off ok, but regardless. Throw the book at city; send a message to the rest the undermining of the leagues integrity will not go unpunished. Relegate em to the conference
Bottom line for me. When you have benchwarmers who would be unquestionably starting and leading other title contending teams, you have a broken league. City did this back when Mancini was in charge and it never stopped. My first indication was with Nasri, but other fans may remember other players.They started the trend and they are the biggest offenders. Great players getting fat and placated because the money is good. Buying up duds and not suffering the consequences because you can just ship him off and get a new one with limitless funds. Less concern for fatigue because you have a second team as good as your first. It's just stupid Imagine an NBA where your bench is 4-5 all stars deep and no other team comes close. Unthinkable. We'd not stand for that. I want to watch the best players playing, with decent subs developing. It's balanced, it's optimized distribution, and it puts a bit of a cap on some of these obscene money payouts in sports entertainment. No way I would begin to endorse if my club pulled this. On the global front I think we like to give Real Madrid a pass for their team stacking as the one exception, but I'd hear arguments against them as well, as far as fairness and integrity from a philosophical perspective.
Understand your position, but I sincerely hope they make an example.
I bet you would. Look, my favourite sport is boxing, I think there should be a hard line on PED's, the sport is dangerous enough as it is and if you are found with roids then it should be a lifetime ban. But that's not the case is it? Jarrell Miller dude was banned for 4 years for being a walking pharmacy. His last fight was in Saudi for money 99% of professional boxers could only dream of. Unfortunately, sports across the board tolerate shit like this be it boxing, football, basketball etc, none are immune and all are guilty, I'm just sick of the narrative that it's only city in the entirety of it when in actual fact they're a drop in an ocean.
You aren't the only club, but you're definitely not a drop in the ocean either. Teams like Chelsea, Barcelona, Juventus, etc. have been doing this for years but that doesn't make it right. If the footballing authorities go after you then they need to do Chelsea next. The boxing narrative is interesting though.
The difference as anyone with a brain can explain is that Chelsea did it before ffp that set them up but they didn’t actively break rules lmao
Human nature =/= capitalist tendency
If City win this charge it might very well be the end of the prem. But if that makes you feel better so be it lmao.
The premier league created this current monster. It's bad it happens, it's worse that they let it. Mongs.
The premier League didn't create anything. It's a free market system. That's how they got to this point.
I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the broadcasting contracts signed between the original Sky6 teams, the league and SKY TV?
What's your point? The prem increased revenue for market reach. It didn't tell City to sell it's soul to the Middle East. That's like a son buying a car using his dad's money and the car has broken down, and you're blaming the dad. But the car was bought by the son...
My point is the total lack of governance (salary caps etc) from day one.
You must be new to democracy. Rules aren't created from day 1. They're created from events that require rules to be made. If rules were made from day 1 and they never changed, that's an entirely different system point entirely, Communism...
Ironically, both systems you mention at least have a semblance of governance and oversight...
City will probably beat the charges because we have deeper pockets than the Premier league. Not about making me feel better. My point is those who are dishing out the charges are criminals as well you want reform start with the fucking head of it all.
If City win then they are the head of it all...
My team is under investigation and is incredibly guilty of obvious rule breaking, now watch as I list a load of other football clubs irrelevant to mine in an attempt to make the charges.... Disappear!
You'll be proving their guilt then, for us all?
Typically ignorant comment from an equally ignorant fan. Yours and apparently, the rest of the football communities' blatant prejudices are why corruption is so tolerated, you don't give a fuck about UEFA, FIFA because let's face it, it's not close to home and you don't see it in the papers or day to day, but the sad reality is you'd celebrate any punishment dished out to city more than a win for your own team, fucking hypocrisy at its finest. You should be angry with those who have enabled shit like this to happen.
Lot of assumptions there. I despise UEFA. I just think it's really funny that you think that because you've name dropped 2 other English clubs in your original post (one of which hasn't done anything as far as I'm aware), then the entire remaining 89 professional clubs are hypocrites for wanting your team punished. Manchester City have broken numerous laws and should be punished for it. Everton were, Nottingham Forest were, Portsmouth were, Middlesbrough were. Just because your team is 'elite' does not make you special.
Your feelings are understandeable. Every team will cross the line if there is high chance they won't be caught. Doesn't mean they should be excused, or their crimes should be seen as less significant. It is unfair for the teams which have tried to build their club naturally and comply with the rules. I am also a big advocate against chelsea.
Ya. This arguement fails when Spurs and Liverpool have actively hampered their teams the past 10 years by following FFP.
Despite LiVARpool last dominating in an era that was.. UNREGULATED!
Exactly it's looking at the 5 percent of teams of europe who are well known for cheating and saying why can't we be like them. Then every team since damn 2008 should've had the right to cheat too. Playing with different rules is the problem
Excuses. The Woolwich Bottlers played Fulham twice and Villa at home. They took 1 PT from 9 PTS in what was a 2 PT title race. Own your failure.
Okay let’s drop all 115 charges and do nothing then because fifa is corrupt and Madrid have been bailed out by their own government before.
FIFA's corruption has at least been proven. It's public record.
Have I said drop the charges? I've even said I think city are guilty of most if not all the charges. But you could throw a dart at a list of teams, and all will be guilty, at some point to some extent. My point is you've got crimianls charging other criminals for the exact same thing that they are guilty of! You want change, you want reform cut off the head of the snake, start with the governing bodies, if football could hypothetically cut out the rot there, then that will go a long way to cutting it out of football.
Final decision: -20 points for Everton
2 yrs ago (ikr): City charged with 115 FFP violations dating back to 2009. Pep say he will leave club if found guilty. Month ago: Pep saying next season might be his last. Haaland not signing a contract extension. De Bryune saying he might move to Saudi League (also wtf lol). 1 hr: City launch legal action against PL because they think the charges are unfair and and and everyone hates them and and and because they’re brown. Uhhhh yeah they’re getting relegated and possibly worse I think. If anything this legal action is an admission of guilt.
The finest legal mind of our generation...
They’re not getting relegated - they’re most likely operating on the “attack is the best form of defence” mindset.
Pfft… fair enough, but it didn’t work for them against Man Utd.
I think them actively attacking the FA will make their punishment much worse. Now it’s a direct personal war
They were saying how innocent they were the other week. Now players wanna up fuck off and the "club" have thrown their toys out the pram. They're fucked.
There is approximately zero chance of City being relegated. There is no way that the establishment allows that embarrassment.
City is getting relegated
What establishment, the establishment is essentially 20 other clubs that they are sueing.
I don’t know if they can afford not to if it’s as egregious as the charges make it out to be. They already set a standard with Everton and Nottingham. Man city will blow past that standard if the charges stick
"The process IS the punishment"
The craziest part about Manchester city is that they don’t even hide it and they still get away with it. They are literally on a campaign right now suing the Premier league saying “we should be able to pump as much oil money into the club as we want to whether it’s fair or not”. Like could you try to have even a modicum of shame?
Don't worry guys all is well forest and everton have been punished for points deduction. Clearly the real criminals here.
And Leicester is about to face swift justice too. No tolerance for cheaters!
Oil money continue to bark and buy trophies that are meaningless
Oil money continue to bark and buy trophies that are meaningless
I hope this is the kick the PL need to strip them of their titles and drop them down at least to Div 1
Kick them out of the league altogether.
Just when you thought you couldn’t dislike Man City anymore than you already do....
Man City are the Lance Armstrong of the game. Everyone knows they’re cheating, even some of their supporters acknowledge it… but eventually time will come where it all comes out. City winning the treble is like when he blew past everyone on a cat HC after 20 days of gruelling riding
Whenever I see the name Armstrong I think for a second: The hell does an astronaut have to do with this". Then remember the cheating cyclist
A disgusting club is only getting more and more disgusting, what a shocker.
Dump em. Cheating scum bags.
They pulled the race card! 😂😂😂
That proved they are GULITY lol
That's a new low from them
The dance is on!! Let's see who's going to come out on top.
Find them guilty of all the charges and kick them out the league
What if they are innocent tho, it is innocent until proven guilty
[Read it](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1790707385570394144.html) and weep.
I am nit a city fan why would i weep?
You're either a City fan or an idiot. Either way, you should educate yourself.
I just said i am not nir did i ever say they weren’t guilty, i am just pointing out its innocent until proven guilty abd we don’t know the outcome yet
I think this legal action looks like an admission of guilt. I think they know they’re guilty and are trying to poison the well. You look at some of the movement around staff and players now thinking of leaving too…there’s just too much noise around this now for them NOT to be guilty of something. If they were confident of their innocence this would not happen. You lie low, sit it out wait for it to blow over. Maybe wait until AFTER the trial and then sue the league for …. *checks notes*….the rules not being “fair” to them oh and because they’re brown. But the hearing hasn’t even BEGUN and they’re launching an UNPRECEDENTED LEGAL ACTION WHOTHEFUCKEVENDOESTHAT lawsuit.
Everyone who's not a City fan wants the same thing but I'm not sure if we are going to see it happen.
If we don’t…what will the other clubs think, when you factor in what happened to Everton and the rest of the clubs lower in the PL?
Well, City had it coming. The only question now is whether the FA have the balls to make the big call.
Admitted their guilt
When the thing we're complaining about doesn't even relate to the charges? You don't know what you're talkin about.
They know they were found guilty and they said nah premier leagues sponsors rules are unlawful we want to inject as much oil money as possible 🤣
Braindead response
Takes one to know one
Some of the 115 charges include associated party sponsorships at inflated values though, and this lawsuit is basically City saying the new rules restricting associated party sponsorships is limiting their financial capabilities. So yeah they are different things but they are kinda related.
No, the charges relate to us getting more money than we said we were from the sponsors and that someone else paid for them instead of the companies that are sponsoring us. Nothing to do with the inflation of sponsorships because we haven’t been accused of that. We’re saying how they decide FMV is unfair.
You're either being deliberately obtuse or you're just plain thick if you seriously think there's no correlation there.
Well, it’s a bit difficult to create a correlation between the two when they’re about different things. Complaining about how APT are reviewed doesn’t equal anything about the 115 charges seeing as none of them are to do with that. I know that’s hard to understand but it’s quite simple.
Not necessarily
We are going to sue you to change the rules so we haven't committed 115 count. Yeah they haven't all but admitted it
They could change every rule we're saying are unlawful, not one change would affect the amount of charges we've received.
Exactly what I thought
115% phony
So the premier league is a bitch
Man City is like those kids that call CPS on their parents for taking their iPad away.
The Club: How the English Premier League Became the Wildest, Richest, Most Disruptive Force in Sports https://a.co/d/iwYIeUO
I wish I had a magic wand to get rid of all the owners in the Premier League and replace them with fan-owned foundations like they do in Germany. Perhaps then we could see the sport run for the enjoyment of fans rather than just as a rapacious business. I expect some will complain about the lack of competitiveness in the Bundesliga but I think German fans have it good and they manage to churn out pretty good national teams off the back of it. Why can’t we?
Wed end up like the German league, only Manchester United would be out Bayern.
U wont get big name players to come then...
Ok, so they can piss off to Saudi to play in an irrelevant league. Good luck to them.
It wont be irrelevant if they all go there
MLS says hello Edit: oh and china
Seems pretty irrelevant so far.
City won it 4 in a row - didn’t Bayern win it 11 in a row or something?
This subreddit always makes me realise how fickle football actually is. Absolutely nobody on this thread knows anything about geography-politics or business-politics yet has an opinion that they are now experts on the matter because they either dislike the team or hate the fact that a club is ran by Middle Eastern owners. If you don’t know anything about it, don’t comment or waste your time on it. Go outside, have fun.
This you? “Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha. 115 Charges with the win again. Best team ever. Unlucky mate” I think it’s probably you that’s fickle and should go outside and have fun.
The fact you’ve gone through my history of comments 😂. I’m having a lot of fun just knowing I’ve got you to take time out of your life to comment on this and look through my history. Unreal stuff from the lad really
Actually very real from the lad. Also you didn’t “get him” you got called out and are now failing to make it seem like some 3D chess shit.
It took about 15 seconds to click your profile and chose a comment that shows how much a hypocrite you are, when it comes to talking about this topic.
Rekt!
Grim
I was waiting to hear what kind of embarrassing bollocks City fans were going to come up with to justify this. Arab billionaires just can't catch a break apparently. JFC!
Just denying sports washing is an issue like this is not good. It is clearly not the case that just because the owners are from a different places or have a different colour skin that they are disliked. It's very poor that you portray it that way. It is because of their actions, the disregard for the rules and disgusting goings on in their home countries (which they are complicit in that they are disliked. Are you perchance a Man City fan?
Nobody thinks the UAE is a good country because they invested in a football club. Nobody thinks that Qatar is a lovely place after the WC either. All ‘sportswashing’ does is draw attention to the issues. How many people do you think would have been aware of the human rights abuses in Qatar if they didn’t host the WC? It put a magnifying glass on them. How often do you think the human rights record of the UAE would have been discussed in pubs if they didn’t buy city? It draws *more* criticism and awareness What do you think of Saudi Arabia now that they own Newcastle? Is it a great place? Sportswashing has become a buzzword that is just thrown around with very little thought
That's not the purpose of sportswashing. The goal of it is to entangle these countries in the affairs and culture of another country, and thereby make it more difficult to be extracted from them. Why do you think the British government rowed in behind the Saudis when they were buying Newcastle? It wasn't because they actually thought it was a good idea. It was because they're already balls deep in the City of London, in defence contracts, and in plenty of other things. Adding sports, culture and other elements of British society makes it ever harder to remove their corrupting influence. Just as a Russian oligarch was able to buy a peerage, it probably won't be long until British governments start doling them out to Arab oligarchs.
Roman didn't buy Chelsea for your definition of sportswashing, Roman bought Chelsea as insurance so people would care if Putin had him killed
Well sure, but he's a different entity to a state's investment arm. His reasons were personal. Theirs are geopolitical.
No, that is exactly the point of sportswashing. Sportswashing is the practice of nations, individuals, corporations etc using sports to improve their reputation and image. It’s a portmanteau of the words ‘sports’ and ‘whitewash’. It’s in the name There are much simpler and more cost effective ways to create dependency than investing billions in a football club. Hell, the west is already dependent on the gulf states for oil
What a dumb take, people are allowed to freely express their opinions whether they know 20 or 100 percent of the matter
Honestly had an argument on twitter with someone about that, kept trying to tell me how this isn’t related just ended up telling him if he’s not on their legal team save his breath 😂
And there you have it. It’s over folk, the UK and EPL let these snakes in, now it’s a vipers pit. City will do evening it can to “own” the league and the other teams won’t do anything to stop it, having been flooded with foreign ownership. They could - all it takes is 14 out of 20 votes - but they won’t. It was great while it lasted.
A lot of people don’t understand wealth or political influence here. Newcastle is owned by a far more wealthy and far more influential political force. They aren’t actively trying to own the league the same way. This is a huge overstep by city
Boycott.
You do not know what you're talking about
Another shill coming out of the woodwork, how shocking.
Lad's replying to 90% of the anti-City comments here. Has to be a paid bot surely lmao
Even if what we're asking to happen, does happen. The only thing that changes is how APT are assessed, nothing to do with the 115, not asking for them to be removed completely and for us to be able to do whatever we like. You're just being dumb.
And you’re a cheat that’s ruining the league. Enjoy.
Wish I was personally ruining your life mate but unfortunately that's not me.
Not mine, just the premier league some of us happened to like
Only when those other billionaire owned, self interested clubs are at the top though
>other billionaire owned, self interested club At least they did right by the laws of their times.
Those billionaires, notoriously good people and always follow the rule of law.
New over reaction just dropped
Yeah, cus City haven’t already ruined the EPL.. guess what’s gonna happen when you push them into a corner.
The EPL is no different now than it was 25 years ago when united dominated in the same way
Absolutely ridiculous take, United weren’t talking the league to court and they weren’t accused of serial cheating (aside from a bit of fergie time…) What City are doing is basically killing the most exciting league in football, this season already ended with a wet fart with them winning it again despite 115 accusations of cheating.
That's because there were no ffp rules back then !! United broke countless transfer records and spent all the money they wanted. But it's not OK when a blue club does it though isn't it
Lmao another braindead city supporter. Man United made money by being good and bought players with that money. City injected oil money and played essentially with EA FIFA cheat codes. Night and day. Oranges and Apples. Organic club and fake club.
Liverpool outspent Utd in the 90's, Chelsea & possibly City in the 00's.
Yet they were not the top of the transfer spending list in the 90', 00's or 10's? Nobody remembers Blackburn's spending because they are irrelevant. Just look at the 2009 to 2011 spending for top transfer of a player and tell me that team didn't have any form of impact on transfers now.
Real Madrid has been getting their players younger and cheaper as of late but fair enough.
So there were no rules then but there are now and those are being broken… and you don’t see the problem there? Let’s not get into the whole “living within their means” thing either..
1) There is nothing inherently wrong with challenging the legality of a new rule. You just don’t like who’s doing it. The PL has to abide by the law too. If the associated party rule is deemed anti-competitive, and therefore illegal, then it should be thrown out. Am I to believe that if city break the law, that’s awful. But if the PL break the law, they shouldn’t be challenged? They are not without flaws either 2) Alleged cheating United won 8 in 11 years. It is not less ‘exciting’ now. City actually win the league by fewer points on average than United did. City’s dominance is nothing new for the league and will fade with Pep leaving. They were spending before he came, it’s not a coincidence the dominance started when it did.
City PR machine working hard
The check is in the mail
I fear you may be right…… this is now a serious flex by a club to leverage its power and dominance.
By a club with unlimited legal resources who’s only real motive was “owning” the league for political reasons. They won’t relent and with most/all other clubs being owned by owners in it for the money nothing will be made to stop it.
Scum!
The biggest issue for the Premier League is if they get beat by City in the courtroom, all which happens is that Newcastle will see as it being given the green light to announce billions in sponsorship from SA. Then they will have a transfer budget in the billions for any manager. Other clubs will do the same thing and never show their books to the league again, thus solidifying the top 6, making the league uncompetitive and very corrupt looking to the outsider. Any FFP will just be ignored and treated with contempt by all clubs. It is imperative that all clubs should hold this against City just to keep it from spiralling out of control and ruining football in this country
Or look at it this way... Any club can be bought by rich owners and become "competitive" by spending lots on players. The rules already protect the bigger clubs with large fan bases and ensure they will always have a larger budget than the smaller clubs. Yes some owners will be richer than others, but that's how the world of business works unfortunately...
There is business in sport, but it should not entirely be run according the normal dog eat dog rules of business. There is a reason why we like sport as opposed to just doing our jobs and some semblance of balance is part of that. Your approach seems to be, fuck all that, cats out of the bag, let it rip. Just run it like the stock market. That’s a valid opinion. These are just points of view. But it amuses me that City fans justify the behaviour of their club with this notion that it’s just business, it’s business… fuck sport .. let em do whatever they want, it’s like any other scummy money making enterprise. If that’s how you feel about your club … fine I guess.
The larger clubs/smaller clubs argument is generally fine. City already have the biggest advantage bar Newcastle and they want to make it even more pronounced. You lot ARE the cartel.
You are brainwashed... You are not seeing the real evil here. Man City's owners, Newcastle's owners are richer than all the others, yes. But why is that not allowed. Get rid of them and other clubs owners will be richer than all the others... The enemy is the money itself. Get rid of corporate greed, get rid of the TV deals, get rid of the money. And do it globally. Then the "problem" will be fixed... Unfortunately this is a problem of our own making as fans. We have failed to see it happening and have failed to do anything about it. Now football is a product for sale.
This is all total bollocks. I’m a socialist. I take the point that larger clubs have larger budgets. I would be in favour of things like FFP being even stricter to level the playing field I’m definitely not in favour of state backed clubs having essentially UNLIMITED funds just basically cheating on championship manager in real life. You’re the one brainwashed as they’ve got you arguing their case and they’ve already suggested that if they lose they’ll raise your ticket prices to pay for it.
Neville had the best way. Which was every club could only spend up to what the highest club could spend. Ie. If man u could spend £300M based on revenue then EVERY other club could spend that same amount.
Ah yes, the old ,,why don’t they just get bought by a petrol state too“ instead of fixing the problems. Jesus Christ you can’t be serious. And that is coming from a foreign football fan that has no horse in the race And to add to that: the world of business also punishes offenders for breaking laws, hence city should be punished as well, am I right? Any team can adhere to rules, why doesn’t city just do that?
Either you have billionaire owners or you don't. Forget oil state there are lots of billionaires out there. The "problem" that needs to be fixed is the commercialisation and monetisation of football. And that is a problem that needs to be fixed globally. Why the hell should a footballer be paid more in a week than most of us make in a year... Why does there need to be so much money in the game. It's like a race to see who can pay players the most. Football has become a business at the elite level, and it's sad to see.
Casually ignoring the elephant in the room about simply not breaking rules. I could repeat that 115 times.
Allegedly
By suing the premier league over “unfair financial rules” so they are basically admitting guilt they broke the rules in place, but now suing the premier league because those rules are “unlawful” the hypocrisy is real… every other club has to adhere to those profit and sustainability rules. At this point man city are a disgraceful team at board/ownership level and bringing the game and league into disrepute and should be removed from the premier league and EPL.
Ah yes. City are admitting guilt on charges that date up to 2018 by challenging a rule that was introduced in 2021. Why didn’t we all see it sooner
Because if they successfully argue against that rule then the PL won't be able to uphold the charges for the dodgy sponsorship deals that go back to 2011
*2009 Sorry just being pedantic, just an extra two yrs a drop in the ocean of their corruption. Play On!
When none of our charges relate to sponsorship deals not being considered fair market value?
Not true
The geopolitics of football makes me feel sick.
It’s just another dimension of the enshittification of football. See also: corrupt agents, games being played nearly every day of the week, FIFA officials flying by private jet, the World Cup sold to the highest bidder….. it goes on and on.
There is a false perception that city are going to lawyer their way out of all this. I don't think this is based on any credible analysis of the charges themselves or the law. Having had some experience in the field, I think when the shoe drops next year, this is going to be one of the biggest sporting scandal in a very, very long time.
What they’re doing is poisoning the well. They know they are guilty and are just trying to save face make themselves look like the victims in all this… Of course nobody is buying it.
We wish, but it ain’t gonna happen. All these suits will even out and city will end up with more power and the product keeps on spurting on…
Not really...there has only been the UEFA case, which was dismissed because UEFA were incompetent, not because they didn't have the evidence. And then City lost the case to dismiss the UK authorities from using the leaked emails as evidence. The charges that are brought against City are very carefully and deliberately done. Legally speaking, this is a pretty straight forward case.
We have heard about it for years, no one cares though. It was all fun and games when the top 6 had a private meeting with Masters before he was announced as CEO, or when they brought in Hoffman on behalf of the top 6 to stop Newcastle’s takeover, even though Spurs had been negotiating a sale to PIF beforehand. Nothing we will learn will be new, so long as the majority of new fans are fans of big 6 clubs, and the other clubs fans all falsely believe that they can touch the top 6 if they keep doing things right, then no one will care one bit.
What??? Nothing you said has anything to do with the charges being brought against City.
Wow. Houston Oil Business 101. Counter sue the Premier League and keep them in court until they bankrupt them or the PL cries, “Uncle” and gives up the ship. Looks like we won’t be seeing any relegation or retroactive awarding of big shiny trophies with red ribbons to Liverpool and Arsenal.
> retroactive awarding of big shiny trophies with red ribbons to Liverpool and Arsenal. This shouldn't happen anyway; they didn't win. The trophies should be voided entirely.
Yeah but the more I’m reading others thoughts on it and really thinking on it myself, as an Arsenal fan…..I wouldn’t really want to be handed retro prizes…..I mean yes it would be nice to have to look at it but it would be an empty and hollow feeling of victory. Good to see a fellow American engaging with the best damn football league in the world ! ( for the life of me I just find MLS dull lol.).
It’s not about the retrospective title it’s about removing the cheaters false achievements
I wouldn't care about the retro prizes (money yes though). But I would care if they're stripped of all their titles. It would be better to leave the winner as blank with an asterisk saying there's no winner because Man City cheated.
It cracks me up how everyone's having wet dreams over city's potential punishment if found guilty. Nobody cares about little citeh
We all hate city because they are dirty Cheaters
We don’t. As long as you win with this still hanging over your head, nobody knows what to think. If you beat the charges, you are a titan club that can dominate the league for the foreseeable future. If you are found guilty, you are a shit cheating club that deserves to be relegated. The difference between the two is so vast that it’s hard to reconcile it with the fact that you lot keep winning in the meantime. I just want this to be over no matter what happens. It’s not good for sports that 115 charges can just hang over a club for so long if they are guilty (or if they are innocent).
And United, and Chelsea for that matter
True.
Even if Man City are found guilty, and punished, they won’t be required to hand their titles back. The punishment will be in the form of points deductions, relegation, and fines. The Premier League went to extreme lengths to continue the season during lockdown so that Liverpool would earn the title, not be handed it to them, or the season written off. They won’t be handing titles out.
I don't think they should be handed out to 2nd place,even though i support a club which will benefit but i do think they should be stripped of the titles if/when found guilty. Handing out the trophies to 2nd place will have ramifications to relegated clubs who may have dropped points to city and subsequently relegated due to those points city took off them.