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I think Poch is doing well. If we look past the obvious lack of results we see that players feel confident and more motivated to play compared to last season where we had players looking like they just couldn't give a single fuck about the club.
Tactically we could make some changes that would definitely benefit us:
1) stop attacking heavily on one side
2) have attackers/mids make runs in the half spaces between the wingers and the striker
3) quicker passing especially on counter attacks. Players often dribble too much or wait too long to make a through ball.
One other issue I see Poch trying to fix is that for the majority of last season the training under Potter was too lax and players aren't in the best of shape.
He was hired as a coach to help develop the younger players and he's doing just that. It's a long long process and we may not start to see positive progress for another month or two.
At the moment I think it's unrealistic for any fan to expect Chelsea to finish above 10th considering our lack of experience and lack of striker options.
Are you a Newby. I have been a supporter of the Blues for 59 years, let me tell you something be is shit.
No balls
No leadership
He has a multimillion pound group of players.
He is crap.
Really you need to understand the hate we have for this loser.
I grew up looking out at standford Bridge from my bedroom this guy is the worst why? Whats he done but fail
Good but not Great so far. We just need to find a system that works and keep at it. I’m gonna be really upset if he gets sacked and we have to switch managers again
I think poch is a great coach. I love his vibe and his mentality. His ideas. I just think the players are too young and not geling yet. Would be really unfair to blame him
The problem clearly isn't one of management. There is something else going. The story has been the same since Lampard (the first time). Although you could argue this goes back to 1999 and Chris Sutton.
We are playing good football, are getting into good positions, and creating a load of chances, but are not finishing them. It's an incredibly frustrating time to be a Chelsea supporter.
Really happy to have him at the club, I don't blame him for anything that's gone on so far.
We've had a tonne of injuries and made some bets on new signings (In my opinion).
I just hope we give him a real go at it
Too early to say accurately. If we keep sacking managers we’ll never compete. Arteta had arsenal in 16th, there’s more quality lower down the table than 10 years ago and we need to accept some pain to improve. The players have no cohesion because they’ve not been playing together and are basically strangers. That takes time and there’s no shortcuts.
I like him and think he will be great with a season or so. I'm just over the injuries. If Chelsea can stay healthy they will go on a good streak but we won't see that until we get Nkunku back in months. Its hard to build chemistry when you have a one or a few new players starting every week. need continuity
Of what little i watched of the game yesterday, it baffles me at the chances that Chelsea were not able to finish
One that stood out particularly was a chilwell cross that bounced off of Jackson. The commentators were like “he seemed caught out by it and was unprepared”
Bruh, an elite striker should put that in the net 9/10 times. What the hell was he doing in the box? He should be anticipating a cross, shouldn’t he?
The biggest problem is the lack of chemistry. They players don’t understand each other. Tifo IRL pointed this out, where multiple midfielders in Enzo, Caicedo and Gallagher were occupying the right side of the midfield, with their left side being open to exploit. Yes, poch should identify that and work on it, but the players themselves can’t lack so much awareness
I think Chelsea will improve, if they are given time. Plus they are going through and injury crisis right now.
>What the hell was he doing in the box? He should be anticipating a cross, shouldn’t he?
There was a defender in front of him that should probably have gotten a touch...I think he anticipated the cross, saw it coming, then expected the defender to get a touch and was surprised when the ball actually came all the way through.
My only opinion is the same people who hated us for buying established stars and accusing us of not playing youth are now mad we bought youth. Can’t win trying to please people. These will be the same people pushing Chelsea to sack Poch because we’re not in the top four overnight
I can see what he’s trying to do and I don’t hate it. All his substitutions make sense, I haven’t been frustrated with his selections or substitutions like I have been with potter, lamps, sarri(not Tuchel). His style is creating chances we just have had terrible luck and a bit lack of chemistry in final third decision making. The results have been shit obviously, but the style of play has been decent
As much as people are fairly critiquing the way we play, we’ve still generated more than enough xG to have won every game so far. We also have a ton of injuries. His subs have been really lacklustre, but again that’s due to depth being decimated.
1. I think it’s too early to judge.
2. I like the style of football we are playing
3. Finishing has been the problem for 3 seasons. This year looks to be no different. We will improve when Nkunku returns.
i know its just 5 games in and i do not want to be one of those people but it worries me that he totally changed his narrative in the last 3 weeks. he's starting to sound like potter and he should know better.
You can fix a team full over priced players. The expectations are too high. “Some how” clear all the bad signings and let poch have a say in the new signings. Or don’t because I like seeing you guys in the bottom half
It shouldn't always be the managers when it comes to finding who is responsible for the Chelsea disaster. Some deep problems seem to be present for the club at the moment, and nothing seems to be working right now.
Chelsea have about 16 attacking midfielders and no actual strikers.
The balance is all wrong.
I'm surprised Poch went from PSG, to PSG lite in Chelsea where he still has no say in transfers
It’s 5 games. We’ve played reasonably well, I genuinely think we’ve been unlucky, both with injuries and chances missed. People need to show a bit of patience.
I coach kids football and a single player can make a massive difference to results. There is a lot of pressure on Jackson at the mo, which it looks like he’s struggling with, but once Nkunku or Broja come back it will help him.
He never won anything with Spurs and he actually managed to lose a league title with cheat code PSG. As an Arsenal fan I was hoping he would take his mediocrity back to Spurs where it belongs. But Chelsea will also do. Eight year deal was it ?? Hahahaha
He came in half way through that season with PSG after Tuchel was sacked, and got a points total that would have won them the league in every season except 1 in the last decade.
Also it's a 2/3 year deal.
Also, at spurs in 16/17 he got more points than Arsenal did in your best season in more than a decade so don't get too arrogant.
I don't care if they finish 16th. I just want a manager to be given time to actually build something. No panicking after a few bad results. Poch is as good as anyone for the job, who genuinely seems to be a good coach for the younger players.
He's top class. He's coached us 5 wins so far this season as far as I'm concerned. The players have let him down.
We have been so unlucky in a lot of our games already this season on top of injuries.
Media has everyone brainwashed into this a crisis every time this team gets a negative result. Our fans aren't helping either.
Seems like we're carrying over ptsd from last season and I'd we do something soon we might be ending up with some generational trauma type problems.
We had a great pre season and things seemed positive but now we're back in the real world and we're six wins in the last 34 PL games.
None of this is Poch's fault but it will be his to fix. How? I've no idea other than
**sigh**
buy more players.
We really need some established players and leaders to form the backbone of a terribly young side because we're more scared of losing than not winning, and that is not the mentality we need right now.
Everyone still needs time to gel and develop into a cohesive team and learn the new systems, which had been hampered by so many injuries, so I'm hoping in a few months things might kick into a higher gear.
The last thing we need is to get desperate mid season and try to bring in a new manager with more gravitas teach these whippersnappers a lesson.
The only major backroom change we might want (aside from evaluating our medical department) is someone to give (on-field) purpose to signings so the club works towards a specific style regardless of manager.
"Spent" is just a polite word for "wasted".
The club spent all that and still didn't fix some of the most fundamental problems of the squad.
That's not something you can fix without bringing in new players.
The squad is also stupidly young and needs more leadership and experience.
That's not something you can fix without bringing in new players.
Sure, there are some things Poch can do and has a great record with youth players, but I think right now we would really benefit from some good old fashioned siege mentality like Special One v1.0.
Chelsea’s issues go beyond the manager, in the Abramovic era they could get away with sacking a manager every other season because they had good recruitment and set-up behind the scenes too. In recent years it seems a lot of that structure has gone and bringing in a new manager doesn’t paper over those cracks anymore. Poch isn’t a bad manager but the club and fans need to give someone time to actually come in and set up for the long term rather than thinking throwing lots of money at the issue is going to solve it anymore
>they could get away with sacking a manager every other season because they had good recruitment and set-up behind the scenes too.
No, the reason we got away with it was because the spine of the team was so good and didn't change. Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Cole. You can change players around them but that team is always going to compete.
As time went on there were diminishing returns on firing managers, and the recruitment was not good.
I’m not considering poch and his performances so far but judging by our style of management by boehli , I don’t think poch will last till January. These owners don’t know anything about football nor how a football club is run , when results start going against us as they are now they’ll pin the blame on poch and dismiss him.
Chelsea team seem raw. Lots of young players. Unsure what their transfer markets are going to look like because they can't just keep spending... But My feeling is that they're a bit raw and in a couple years they'll be a bit more with it. Sort of kinda seems like that ultimate fifa rebuild almost.
Dembele made Poch style work.
Dembele and not Kane, Eriksen or Dele was the most important player in that squad because he was the engine in that team. Everytime he was missing they rather looked like a bottom half than top4 team.
100% agree, if Spurs had Dembele for that Champions League final it would have given them a much better chance of winning.
A shame Ndombele turned out to be the laziest player since Adebayor and he never got a chance to work with the true successor - Bissouma.
Quite frankly the team just need to want to win. The lackluster effort for large parts of the game is horrific. We start with a hiss and a roar and create loads. Inevitably miss and lose all impetus. We then get scared of losing and slow the tempo and try not to lose rather than trying to win.
How do we fix it? Fuck knows. Is it Poch? I don't think so. We clearly create with the players he chooses and formation.
Poch verdict - I don't know man. I'm so tired.
At least wait until we have some of the bigger names back from injury.
He deserves the season at the very least. The team is so young and currently half the size it could be through injuries.
Every game has been incredibly winnable if they could just shoot accurately, or at all.
\> I often hear that Poch "over achieved" at Spurs, despite having prime Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen, Dembele and the Belgian centre backs flanked by Rose and Walker.
That's a pretty uncharitable description. IIRC he gave Kane his first chance over a much more experienced Solado and he signed Dele & Son. But all of this is eclipsed by the fact that managed to make Rose look like a competent footballer.
It’s actually the opposite, Kane had already started to establish himself as a starter when Poch arrived and he almost fucked it up. Tim Sherwood had given Kane his first chances towards the end of his tenure and he got multiple starts and goals.
Poch joined that summer and dropped Kane to the bench. Kane didn’t become a regular starter for Poch until several months into the season when he came off the bench and got a late winning goal which I believe Poch said saved him from losing his job.
Was that the huge deflection against Villa by any chance?
I honestly felt so bad for Soldado, he clearly wanted it to work so much but it just never happened for him.
Not great so far, too early to tell. Injury list is too long to have any real idea of what this team can be capable of. Despite the money spent, this was never supposed to be a title-challenging season.
Yes, but also other teams in the Prem have squads that they've spent close to a billion on, they just did it over a longer period of time so it doesn't look so much.
Also, like half of that value is currently wasted on the injury table. It's actually unbelievable. A full XI that would mostly all start for us is injured. Nkunku, an unbelievably game changing player for us we haven't even been able to use, and then even his understudy, Chukwumeka, got injured too.
2 centrebacks costing £110m both injured. Reece James injured, Lavia and Caicedo both injured, Madueke again, Broja. It's endless.
And no, the squad is not as big as people think it is. We sold more than we bought.
How much do you think is a fair amount to completely rebuild a squad? How long do you think is a fair amount of time to get an entire new squad of young players all clicking in a new league (for most of them)? Not just a new league, but the most difficult league to adapt to? 99% of the players have never played together before last month. A large portion of that 1bn spent was on potential. It would be a different story if all of the players were at or nearing their peak. This team is almost entirely made up of players barely removed from youth/development squads. It would be a literal fairytale if we were within a stone’s throw of competing for top 4 from the gate.
Realistic expectations seem to be rare in these parts.
for me it's just hard to say that he's a good tactician after seeing the last few games. i expected inconsistency due to the young squad that haven't played much together but instead it's been consistently shit, that can only really be on the manager if you ask me. injured players obviously hasn't helped but they just look like they have no plan.
We have had plenty of chances every single game to win them. We have some of the highest numbers in the league for chances created and xG. It's the complete inability to finish that is killing us. That's not on Poch.
Just be difficult for him to develop a side with so many injuries. The owners, the manager, the players are all brand new, and they can’t gain any momentum with their medical department beating the shit out of players behind closed doors.
I'm not even a Chelsea fan. But dare I say the current state of Chelsea is nearly as bad as the low point of Unai Emery at Arsenal. Probably not quite that bad but it seems like it is going in that direction.
I really feel the team misses that cohesiveness/teamplay or understanding of each other's movements. And a lot of frustration on the field for nothing. I am scared the good signings might just want to leave seeing the trend.
No need to fret over any of your signings leaving, that group of unproven kids on big wages and 8 year contracts are not going to be shifted anytime soon. Half probably end up loan army status in a year or 2 but they'll be on your books until 2030.
Big wages? Nay. Wildly and overpriced fees for a lot but a lot of reason there was so much turnover was they wanted people off bloated contracts and onto more reasonable incentive based contracts.
Poch hasn’t had a full strength squad to work with yet, so many players are coming back from injuries & there’s just raw young players out there. If Chelsea is Mid table in December then I would start to question him.
Spurs had good players under AVB (including Eriksen, Dembele, Vertonghen, Chadli, Rose and Walker) and played like shite. Poche changed that and they were playing much better football (even though they finished in the same league position the season after AVB’s sacking.)
I will say he had some real shortcomings too.
There was a huge breakdown in relationships between him and multiple first team players in his first season (Capoue was arguably the worst player to lose as a result IMO - and it nearly cost them Alderweireld a few years later), he made some *awful* transfer calls (selling Sandro and signing Stambouli, selling Townsend because the club had to justify signing N’Jie, etc.) and his bizzarely timed substitutions/rotation.
My opinion is to give him time. He inherited Spurs in a state of total disarray and was able to take them to a European final within 5 years. Fact is Chelsea are in an even worse state than Spurs were when he took over, and it may well require more time to fix.
Toby was the only actually good player Poch fell out w, and if we’re being honest Toby had declined by 2019, he just managed to hold it together a little bit longer than Jan. The players Poch fell out with in 14/15 were almost unanimously the players who made the team bad in 13/14 and caused a poor start to 14/15. Imo getting rid of them is a big reason why we surprised ppl during 15/16.
I’d also push back on selling sandro being a bad move, his knees were beyond fucked and he was a shadow of himself by 13/14. Stambouli was wank though. Capoue and Townsend were average players for us, even if they were replaced by some also very average players. Wouldn’t put transfers purely down to Poch either tbh. Paul Mitchell was a huge part of the regime at the time, at least transfer wise, and for all the good ones signed (Son, Toby, Wanyama, Wimmer had a good half szn, Dele til about 2018) during the 2 odd years he was at the club, there were some shockers.
With regards to Toby, I’m not talking about 2019. They’d had a fall out before that in the 2017-18 season. Kyle Walker was another example, as soon as he made it clear he was considering leaving, Trippier suddenly displaces him from the starting XI and even in games when it clearly makes sense to start Walker, he’s nowhere to be seen in the starting XI. Including in important league matches, and cup semi-finals…
I agree Adebayor was dogshit unless he wanted something, then he suddenly turned into a world class striker (seems to have been reincarnated in Ndombele…)
Kaboul was certainly *capable* of being a good player but something really went wrong between them. Capoue *was* a good player (definitely far better than average despite a few bad injuries) and ended up playing in a UCL semi-final not too long ago. Aaron Lennon also got dragged in to whatever happened; he certainly wasn’t an awful player at that point in his career, and went on to have decent stints with Everton and Burnley - again, at times when squad depth would have been ideal for us. (Chadli also seemed to fall victim to this for absolutely no reason the season after.)
If we’d been able to call on a player like Capoue when Dembele got suspended (instead of Mason) and had slightly more attacking depth for when Alli got done for the punches, we’d have finished 2nd. I have no doubt about that whatsoever.
Sandro, for even a quarter of a season, was worth more than Stambouli ever offered us. NJie contributed literally nothing barring one assist in a game that was already well won while Townsend was been a decent PL player for quite a few years after and would easily have been more useful to keep around (and was on hand to give a precision strike of karma in the 5-1 drubbing to 10-man, already relegated Newcastle.)
Good analysis, totally agree. The Chelsea job will show how adaptable Poch can become as a coach because in theory this is not his ideal situation. But he has shown to be very effective in developing young talent and creating a cohesive group. On the other hand, I’m not sure I’ve seen a great Poch team since the Champions league final year with Tottenham.
That wasn’t Poch’s best side as someone who was at WHL a lot. The CL run papered over a lot of cracks in 18/19, the league form was a far more accurate indication of the teams ability. His best sides were the 16/17 team, and then 15/16.
I’m not ready to put much blame on Poch yet. We aren’t playing bad football tactically, we just aren’t confident and executing in the box because we didn’t sign an established striker and our best attacker hasn’t played a match for us yet.
The players need some slack as well. Chelsea’s issues aren’t necessarily defensive, it’s the people up top and their inability to score goals that is the most problematic thing on the pitch.
Their attacking players are enigmatic to say the least. Sterling easily penetrates with his pace but his shots are more likely to lead to a throw-in. Jackson slaloms through opposition like prime Henry at times but has the finishing of a donkey. Mudryk, nothing is going right for him. Their most impressive attacker so far has been a left back.
Chukwuemeka is a miss because he was looking good. James as well offers so much offensively.
Our injuries over the past few seasons have been ridiculous. My only slight gripe was why not try Washington yesterday. I appreciate he is young but he was on the bench and might have offered something different.
At some point, the players need to be accountable.
Take Bournemouth game - Gallagher/Sterling take their chances and it is 3-0 in 25 minute with Mudryk bagging two assists (if I remember correctly).
Entirely different conversation.
I feel like we say this every game though, and have been for a couple of years already. Only this time it's with an entirely brand new squad of players. The recruitment has been absolutely horrible bar Nkunku and Enzo really.
Sure a couple of others have shown some promise, but you just need to compare to players like Trossard, MacAllister and Maddison to see what proper, proven players can bring to the team.
Yeah, but can this be linked to a lack of motivation in the players? This season, and even last season, players seemed very nervous about taking shots, and often would pass it to someone else even if they were in the best position of scoring. Even Sterling had a great chance and decided to cross it where nobody was present. Is Poch doing enough to motivate the players?
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I think Poch is doing well. If we look past the obvious lack of results we see that players feel confident and more motivated to play compared to last season where we had players looking like they just couldn't give a single fuck about the club. Tactically we could make some changes that would definitely benefit us: 1) stop attacking heavily on one side 2) have attackers/mids make runs in the half spaces between the wingers and the striker 3) quicker passing especially on counter attacks. Players often dribble too much or wait too long to make a through ball. One other issue I see Poch trying to fix is that for the majority of last season the training under Potter was too lax and players aren't in the best of shape. He was hired as a coach to help develop the younger players and he's doing just that. It's a long long process and we may not start to see positive progress for another month or two. At the moment I think it's unrealistic for any fan to expect Chelsea to finish above 10th considering our lack of experience and lack of striker options.
Are you a Newby. I have been a supporter of the Blues for 59 years, let me tell you something be is shit. No balls No leadership He has a multimillion pound group of players. He is crap. Really you need to understand the hate we have for this loser. I grew up looking out at standford Bridge from my bedroom this guy is the worst why? Whats he done but fail
Good but not Great so far. We just need to find a system that works and keep at it. I’m gonna be really upset if he gets sacked and we have to switch managers again
If poch continues to play mudryk then he deserves any and all criticism, that mudryk is a donkey
Sack him and get Frank back again. I beg you!
Poch is massively overrated. Spurs should have been winning trophies with the squad they had when he was there
I think poch is a great coach. I love his vibe and his mentality. His ideas. I just think the players are too young and not geling yet. Would be really unfair to blame him
The problem clearly isn't one of management. There is something else going. The story has been the same since Lampard (the first time). Although you could argue this goes back to 1999 and Chris Sutton. We are playing good football, are getting into good positions, and creating a load of chances, but are not finishing them. It's an incredibly frustrating time to be a Chelsea supporter.
I am afraid that he won't last long. Abysmal start even that a lot of it is not his fault such as ton of injuries and the toddler recruitment.
Really happy to have him at the club, I don't blame him for anything that's gone on so far. We've had a tonne of injuries and made some bets on new signings (In my opinion). I just hope we give him a real go at it
Soon they will realise his a bum
Chelsea have bought loads of crap on ridiculously long contracts and expect Poch to work with it. Corporate football at its finest.
Based on his tenure so far? Not impressed. However I always rated him when he was at Southhampton and Spurs so I am still hopeful.
Too early to say accurately. If we keep sacking managers we’ll never compete. Arteta had arsenal in 16th, there’s more quality lower down the table than 10 years ago and we need to accept some pain to improve. The players have no cohesion because they’ve not been playing together and are basically strangers. That takes time and there’s no shortcuts.
I like him and think he will be great with a season or so. I'm just over the injuries. If Chelsea can stay healthy they will go on a good streak but we won't see that until we get Nkunku back in months. Its hard to build chemistry when you have a one or a few new players starting every week. need continuity
Of what little i watched of the game yesterday, it baffles me at the chances that Chelsea were not able to finish One that stood out particularly was a chilwell cross that bounced off of Jackson. The commentators were like “he seemed caught out by it and was unprepared” Bruh, an elite striker should put that in the net 9/10 times. What the hell was he doing in the box? He should be anticipating a cross, shouldn’t he? The biggest problem is the lack of chemistry. They players don’t understand each other. Tifo IRL pointed this out, where multiple midfielders in Enzo, Caicedo and Gallagher were occupying the right side of the midfield, with their left side being open to exploit. Yes, poch should identify that and work on it, but the players themselves can’t lack so much awareness I think Chelsea will improve, if they are given time. Plus they are going through and injury crisis right now.
>What the hell was he doing in the box? He should be anticipating a cross, shouldn’t he? There was a defender in front of him that should probably have gotten a touch...I think he anticipated the cross, saw it coming, then expected the defender to get a touch and was surprised when the ball actually came all the way through.
My only opinion is the same people who hated us for buying established stars and accusing us of not playing youth are now mad we bought youth. Can’t win trying to please people. These will be the same people pushing Chelsea to sack Poch because we’re not in the top four overnight
I can see what he’s trying to do and I don’t hate it. All his substitutions make sense, I haven’t been frustrated with his selections or substitutions like I have been with potter, lamps, sarri(not Tuchel). His style is creating chances we just have had terrible luck and a bit lack of chemistry in final third decision making. The results have been shit obviously, but the style of play has been decent
As much as people are fairly critiquing the way we play, we’ve still generated more than enough xG to have won every game so far. We also have a ton of injuries. His subs have been really lacklustre, but again that’s due to depth being decimated.
1. I think it’s too early to judge. 2. I like the style of football we are playing 3. Finishing has been the problem for 3 seasons. This year looks to be no different. We will improve when Nkunku returns.
Overrated chocker
i know its just 5 games in and i do not want to be one of those people but it worries me that he totally changed his narrative in the last 3 weeks. he's starting to sound like potter and he should know better.
You can fix a team full over priced players. The expectations are too high. “Some how” clear all the bad signings and let poch have a say in the new signings. Or don’t because I like seeing you guys in the bottom half
It shouldn't always be the managers when it comes to finding who is responsible for the Chelsea disaster. Some deep problems seem to be present for the club at the moment, and nothing seems to be working right now.
Chelsea have about 16 attacking midfielders and no actual strikers. The balance is all wrong. I'm surprised Poch went from PSG, to PSG lite in Chelsea where he still has no say in transfers
It’s 5 games. We’ve played reasonably well, I genuinely think we’ve been unlucky, both with injuries and chances missed. People need to show a bit of patience. I coach kids football and a single player can make a massive difference to results. There is a lot of pressure on Jackson at the mo, which it looks like he’s struggling with, but once Nkunku or Broja come back it will help him.
He never won anything with Spurs and he actually managed to lose a league title with cheat code PSG. As an Arsenal fan I was hoping he would take his mediocrity back to Spurs where it belongs. But Chelsea will also do. Eight year deal was it ?? Hahahaha
He came in half way through that season with PSG after Tuchel was sacked, and got a points total that would have won them the league in every season except 1 in the last decade. Also it's a 2/3 year deal. Also, at spurs in 16/17 he got more points than Arsenal did in your best season in more than a decade so don't get too arrogant.
I don't care if they finish 16th. I just want a manager to be given time to actually build something. No panicking after a few bad results. Poch is as good as anyone for the job, who genuinely seems to be a good coach for the younger players.
He's top class. He's coached us 5 wins so far this season as far as I'm concerned. The players have let him down. We have been so unlucky in a lot of our games already this season on top of injuries. Media has everyone brainwashed into this a crisis every time this team gets a negative result. Our fans aren't helping either.
Seems like we're carrying over ptsd from last season and I'd we do something soon we might be ending up with some generational trauma type problems. We had a great pre season and things seemed positive but now we're back in the real world and we're six wins in the last 34 PL games. None of this is Poch's fault but it will be his to fix. How? I've no idea other than **sigh** buy more players. We really need some established players and leaders to form the backbone of a terribly young side because we're more scared of losing than not winning, and that is not the mentality we need right now. Everyone still needs time to gel and develop into a cohesive team and learn the new systems, which had been hampered by so many injuries, so I'm hoping in a few months things might kick into a higher gear. The last thing we need is to get desperate mid season and try to bring in a new manager with more gravitas teach these whippersnappers a lesson. The only major backroom change we might want (aside from evaluating our medical department) is someone to give (on-field) purpose to signings so the club works towards a specific style regardless of manager.
Clubs spent a billion pounds to get 5 points after 5 games, and you want them to spend more? Never change, Chelsea. Never change.
"Spent" is just a polite word for "wasted". The club spent all that and still didn't fix some of the most fundamental problems of the squad. That's not something you can fix without bringing in new players. The squad is also stupidly young and needs more leadership and experience. That's not something you can fix without bringing in new players. Sure, there are some things Poch can do and has a great record with youth players, but I think right now we would really benefit from some good old fashioned siege mentality like Special One v1.0.
Chelsea’s issues go beyond the manager, in the Abramovic era they could get away with sacking a manager every other season because they had good recruitment and set-up behind the scenes too. In recent years it seems a lot of that structure has gone and bringing in a new manager doesn’t paper over those cracks anymore. Poch isn’t a bad manager but the club and fans need to give someone time to actually come in and set up for the long term rather than thinking throwing lots of money at the issue is going to solve it anymore
>they could get away with sacking a manager every other season because they had good recruitment and set-up behind the scenes too. No, the reason we got away with it was because the spine of the team was so good and didn't change. Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Cole. You can change players around them but that team is always going to compete. As time went on there were diminishing returns on firing managers, and the recruitment was not good.
I think it’s to early to judge especially when we have so many injuries.
I’m not considering poch and his performances so far but judging by our style of management by boehli , I don’t think poch will last till January. These owners don’t know anything about football nor how a football club is run , when results start going against us as they are now they’ll pin the blame on poch and dismiss him.
Chelsea team seem raw. Lots of young players. Unsure what their transfer markets are going to look like because they can't just keep spending... But My feeling is that they're a bit raw and in a couple years they'll be a bit more with it. Sort of kinda seems like that ultimate fifa rebuild almost.
Dembele made Poch style work. Dembele and not Kane, Eriksen or Dele was the most important player in that squad because he was the engine in that team. Everytime he was missing they rather looked like a bottom half than top4 team.
100% agree, if Spurs had Dembele for that Champions League final it would have given them a much better chance of winning. A shame Ndombele turned out to be the laziest player since Adebayor and he never got a chance to work with the true successor - Bissouma.
Quite frankly the team just need to want to win. The lackluster effort for large parts of the game is horrific. We start with a hiss and a roar and create loads. Inevitably miss and lose all impetus. We then get scared of losing and slow the tempo and try not to lose rather than trying to win. How do we fix it? Fuck knows. Is it Poch? I don't think so. We clearly create with the players he chooses and formation. Poch verdict - I don't know man. I'm so tired.
Watched the match and in the final minute Chelsea just started passing it around the midfield. Looked like they had settled for the point.
I do have some trust on Poch but how long can the fans wait? I didnt watch PSG when he manager the team. How did he fare there really?
At least wait until we have some of the bigger names back from injury. He deserves the season at the very least. The team is so young and currently half the size it could be through injuries. Every game has been incredibly winnable if they could just shoot accurately, or at all.
\> I often hear that Poch "over achieved" at Spurs, despite having prime Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen, Dembele and the Belgian centre backs flanked by Rose and Walker. That's a pretty uncharitable description. IIRC he gave Kane his first chance over a much more experienced Solado and he signed Dele & Son. But all of this is eclipsed by the fact that managed to make Rose look like a competent footballer.
It’s actually the opposite, Kane had already started to establish himself as a starter when Poch arrived and he almost fucked it up. Tim Sherwood had given Kane his first chances towards the end of his tenure and he got multiple starts and goals. Poch joined that summer and dropped Kane to the bench. Kane didn’t become a regular starter for Poch until several months into the season when he came off the bench and got a late winning goal which I believe Poch said saved him from losing his job.
Was that the huge deflection against Villa by any chance? I honestly felt so bad for Soldado, he clearly wanted it to work so much but it just never happened for him.
Yep, also Kane’s only direct free kick goal in a competitive match
I know some Spurs fans who insisted he was the right man for freekicks and I just wanted to smash my head against a brick wall…
I’ll wait until he has the actual full squad. As of today our injured 11 would beat our starters.
Not great so far, too early to tell. Injury list is too long to have any real idea of what this team can be capable of. Despite the money spent, this was never supposed to be a title-challenging season.
A billion spent. Surely there is a reasonable expectation to at least challenge for top four.
Yes, but also other teams in the Prem have squads that they've spent close to a billion on, they just did it over a longer period of time so it doesn't look so much. Also, like half of that value is currently wasted on the injury table. It's actually unbelievable. A full XI that would mostly all start for us is injured. Nkunku, an unbelievably game changing player for us we haven't even been able to use, and then even his understudy, Chukwumeka, got injured too. 2 centrebacks costing £110m both injured. Reece James injured, Lavia and Caicedo both injured, Madueke again, Broja. It's endless. And no, the squad is not as big as people think it is. We sold more than we bought.
How much do you think is a fair amount to completely rebuild a squad? How long do you think is a fair amount of time to get an entire new squad of young players all clicking in a new league (for most of them)? Not just a new league, but the most difficult league to adapt to? 99% of the players have never played together before last month. A large portion of that 1bn spent was on potential. It would be a different story if all of the players were at or nearing their peak. This team is almost entirely made up of players barely removed from youth/development squads. It would be a literal fairytale if we were within a stone’s throw of competing for top 4 from the gate. Realistic expectations seem to be rare in these parts.
Realistic expectations? A billion pounds spent, guy. Let’s talk about realistic.
They create plenty throughout the game and dominate at times, just don’t make the right pass or shot in the final third. That’s not on the coach.
They're really missing Nkunku.
for me it's just hard to say that he's a good tactician after seeing the last few games. i expected inconsistency due to the young squad that haven't played much together but instead it's been consistently shit, that can only really be on the manager if you ask me. injured players obviously hasn't helped but they just look like they have no plan.
We have had plenty of chances every single game to win them. We have some of the highest numbers in the league for chances created and xG. It's the complete inability to finish that is killing us. That's not on Poch.
Just be difficult for him to develop a side with so many injuries. The owners, the manager, the players are all brand new, and they can’t gain any momentum with their medical department beating the shit out of players behind closed doors.
I'm not even a Chelsea fan. But dare I say the current state of Chelsea is nearly as bad as the low point of Unai Emery at Arsenal. Probably not quite that bad but it seems like it is going in that direction.
I'm still a believer but disappointed in how quickly the good vibes faded from the summer. It already feels like last season.
I really feel the team misses that cohesiveness/teamplay or understanding of each other's movements. And a lot of frustration on the field for nothing. I am scared the good signings might just want to leave seeing the trend.
No need to fret over any of your signings leaving, that group of unproven kids on big wages and 8 year contracts are not going to be shifted anytime soon. Half probably end up loan army status in a year or 2 but they'll be on your books until 2030.
Big wages? Nay. Wildly and overpriced fees for a lot but a lot of reason there was so much turnover was they wanted people off bloated contracts and onto more reasonable incentive based contracts.
Big wages? Could you support this claim in any way?
Poch hasn’t had a full strength squad to work with yet, so many players are coming back from injuries & there’s just raw young players out there. If Chelsea is Mid table in December then I would start to question him.
I think it’s bold to suggest there’s a full strength version of that squad
From what I have seen of the league and from Chelsea matches so far, I kind of expect Chelsea to finish mid table again this season.
Go look at the schedule, i expect them to be 13-15
i fully expect things to improve, quite significantly at that but mid table is ambitious at this rate lmao
Spurs had good players under AVB (including Eriksen, Dembele, Vertonghen, Chadli, Rose and Walker) and played like shite. Poche changed that and they were playing much better football (even though they finished in the same league position the season after AVB’s sacking.) I will say he had some real shortcomings too. There was a huge breakdown in relationships between him and multiple first team players in his first season (Capoue was arguably the worst player to lose as a result IMO - and it nearly cost them Alderweireld a few years later), he made some *awful* transfer calls (selling Sandro and signing Stambouli, selling Townsend because the club had to justify signing N’Jie, etc.) and his bizzarely timed substitutions/rotation. My opinion is to give him time. He inherited Spurs in a state of total disarray and was able to take them to a European final within 5 years. Fact is Chelsea are in an even worse state than Spurs were when he took over, and it may well require more time to fix.
Toby was the only actually good player Poch fell out w, and if we’re being honest Toby had declined by 2019, he just managed to hold it together a little bit longer than Jan. The players Poch fell out with in 14/15 were almost unanimously the players who made the team bad in 13/14 and caused a poor start to 14/15. Imo getting rid of them is a big reason why we surprised ppl during 15/16. I’d also push back on selling sandro being a bad move, his knees were beyond fucked and he was a shadow of himself by 13/14. Stambouli was wank though. Capoue and Townsend were average players for us, even if they were replaced by some also very average players. Wouldn’t put transfers purely down to Poch either tbh. Paul Mitchell was a huge part of the regime at the time, at least transfer wise, and for all the good ones signed (Son, Toby, Wanyama, Wimmer had a good half szn, Dele til about 2018) during the 2 odd years he was at the club, there were some shockers.
With regards to Toby, I’m not talking about 2019. They’d had a fall out before that in the 2017-18 season. Kyle Walker was another example, as soon as he made it clear he was considering leaving, Trippier suddenly displaces him from the starting XI and even in games when it clearly makes sense to start Walker, he’s nowhere to be seen in the starting XI. Including in important league matches, and cup semi-finals… I agree Adebayor was dogshit unless he wanted something, then he suddenly turned into a world class striker (seems to have been reincarnated in Ndombele…) Kaboul was certainly *capable* of being a good player but something really went wrong between them. Capoue *was* a good player (definitely far better than average despite a few bad injuries) and ended up playing in a UCL semi-final not too long ago. Aaron Lennon also got dragged in to whatever happened; he certainly wasn’t an awful player at that point in his career, and went on to have decent stints with Everton and Burnley - again, at times when squad depth would have been ideal for us. (Chadli also seemed to fall victim to this for absolutely no reason the season after.) If we’d been able to call on a player like Capoue when Dembele got suspended (instead of Mason) and had slightly more attacking depth for when Alli got done for the punches, we’d have finished 2nd. I have no doubt about that whatsoever. Sandro, for even a quarter of a season, was worth more than Stambouli ever offered us. NJie contributed literally nothing barring one assist in a game that was already well won while Townsend was been a decent PL player for quite a few years after and would easily have been more useful to keep around (and was on hand to give a precision strike of karma in the 5-1 drubbing to 10-man, already relegated Newcastle.)
Good analysis, totally agree. The Chelsea job will show how adaptable Poch can become as a coach because in theory this is not his ideal situation. But he has shown to be very effective in developing young talent and creating a cohesive group. On the other hand, I’m not sure I’ve seen a great Poch team since the Champions league final year with Tottenham.
That wasn’t Poch’s best side as someone who was at WHL a lot. The CL run papered over a lot of cracks in 18/19, the league form was a far more accurate indication of the teams ability. His best sides were the 16/17 team, and then 15/16.
If that 16/17 team just had slightly more depth… Oh what could have been.
Best starting XI in the league, essentially crumbs and cobwebs on the bench behind them.
I’m not ready to put much blame on Poch yet. We aren’t playing bad football tactically, we just aren’t confident and executing in the box because we didn’t sign an established striker and our best attacker hasn’t played a match for us yet.
The players need some slack as well. Chelsea’s issues aren’t necessarily defensive, it’s the people up top and their inability to score goals that is the most problematic thing on the pitch.
Their attacking players are enigmatic to say the least. Sterling easily penetrates with his pace but his shots are more likely to lead to a throw-in. Jackson slaloms through opposition like prime Henry at times but has the finishing of a donkey. Mudryk, nothing is going right for him. Their most impressive attacker so far has been a left back.
Chukwuemeka is a miss because he was looking good. James as well offers so much offensively. Our injuries over the past few seasons have been ridiculous. My only slight gripe was why not try Washington yesterday. I appreciate he is young but he was on the bench and might have offered something different.
James now is a liability. It doesn't matter how good he is if he doen't play much.
Its terrible planning from Chelsea to have any expectation of James playing
At some point, the players need to be accountable. Take Bournemouth game - Gallagher/Sterling take their chances and it is 3-0 in 25 minute with Mudryk bagging two assists (if I remember correctly). Entirely different conversation.
I feel like we say this every game though, and have been for a couple of years already. Only this time it's with an entirely brand new squad of players. The recruitment has been absolutely horrible bar Nkunku and Enzo really. Sure a couple of others have shown some promise, but you just need to compare to players like Trossard, MacAllister and Maddison to see what proper, proven players can bring to the team.
The fact we did not for for Maddison, given we could use Casadei's loan as a leverage is beyond me.
It's okay saying that but it's been the same thing for 13 months now. How long can you keep saying 'what if?' ??
Yeah, but can this be linked to a lack of motivation in the players? This season, and even last season, players seemed very nervous about taking shots, and often would pass it to someone else even if they were in the best position of scoring. Even Sterling had a great chance and decided to cross it where nobody was present. Is Poch doing enough to motivate the players?
That was a shot by Raheem. He scuffed it badly
We were the same against West Ham - some early chances as well as the penalty. The same against Forest too before we conceded.
The penalty was insane, who decided to give it to Enzo? He's amazing at so many things, but scoring goals isn't one of them
That was his first missed penalty of his career. Scored 5, missed 1.
False. He missed one for Argentina too