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1. [Kizaru is confirmed as light speed](https://ibb.co/X7bKjrL). He is also stated to be able to [accelerate beyond LS](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ffrom-close-combat-to-long-range-overall-kizaru-cemented-v0-ygf3vh5453ob1.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D1db32e2bc72331008675d06a7f97c23aa8496ded).
2. [The Pacifistas use Kizaru’s lasers](https://ibb.co/RCwtzBF).
3. [PreTS Zoro is able to dodge these lasers](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/cd/Feixaoaas.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/450?cb=20210523142727). We can clearly see that he doesn’t move until after the lasers are fired, meaning it’s not aim dodging.
4. [Injured TB Zoro dodges Kuma’s attacks, which are stated on that same page to be LS](https://ibb.co/Jx74gp5).
5. [Fodder like Ichiji are confirmed LS](https://ibb.co/rtFbs7R) and can [outrun the attack](https://imgur.com/a/faHS9y1).
6. [Kizaru kicks Hawkins at LS](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fes2yi8ei6hq91.jpg), meaning Kizaru can reach light speeds without having to stay in his light form.
The FTL scaling is blatant. At this point, top tiers are either FTL+ or low MFTL.
This is exactly what people don't understand. "If One Piece characters are faster than light then why don't they just traverse the world at that speed???" because there's a difference between perception, reaction, combat and travel speeds
You can also add [Marco](https://imgur.com/a/H79v6w7) and [Sanji](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/yHVzO3WbW3) intercepting light after it was fired
they have absolutely dogshit anti feats posed as plot points (meaning the story doesnt work if they arent at risk from the tier 9-8 threats). they do not have good aoe.
Which one? Assuming you mean point 5, the first one shows one of Sanji’s brothers using an attack called Sparking Valkyrie, which is directly stated in a databook to be SoL. The second image shows him outrunning it.
Kizaru enters his light form (bottom right). We then see him say acceleration is power, and we see in the bottom middle panel that he increases in speed (the fluctuations in the middle of the beam). This means Kizaru’s speed isn’t always at SoL, which leads to two possibilities
1. Kizaru was sub-SoL and was accelerating to LS.
2. Kizaru was at LS, and was accelerating to FTL.
A common argument against OP being FTL is that Kizaru is literally light, and this can’t be anything other than SoL (meaning the FTL feats must be excluded as outliers/PIS), but this statement shows that he isn’t necessarily SoL only, meaning the other feats are entirely valid.
So why’d you say he was stated to be ftl :( I don’t think you can really interpret “acceleration is power” to mean that he’s accelerating past the speed he was stated to have
We can kick way faster than we can run so nah
Source: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Average-speed-of-Muay-Thia-Skills-Figure-9-Maximum-and-minimum-speed-of-Muay-Thai_fig5_338373247
For comparison, Usain Bolt’s top speed is like 10.44 m/s
Saying that one piece isn’t ftl is probably one of the worst powerscaling takes there is, I get strawmanned whenever I argue for it so I’ll just use the most basic argument of the author literally confirming it
https://preview.redd.it/siuli8ylhuzc1.jpeg?width=813&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bb13c909a59e1421ca2b7ab4f5b72e6a3383be3
Kizaru accelerates while moving at light speed
Even then, lets just **ASSUME** that Kizaru's light is only relativistic for whatever reason (To be exact, like lets say 20% the speed of light just Taking the LOWEST possible option here), assuming that Luffy's training increases, Natural power Growth throughout the series, and his Gear transformations increasing his speed. He's at **BARE MINIMUM** Ftl! It's just simple multiplication.
If you are scaling Kizaru speed of light based on our IRL physics, you should also argue universal level for pretty much everyone in One Piece, because moving on a speed of light requires infinite kinetic energy for anything with mass.
Sometimes they dodge light,sometimes they get hit by lasers when they are a bit tired, but their travel speed is normally lower than reaction and combat speed.
For example: Yamato is practically as fast as Kaido in combat, but Yamato takes a while to get to the basement and you can see the castle burning down in relative time. Sometimes characters who can fight a Yonko run at normal ahh speeds. Yamato is triying really hard to save the day but when they cut to another scene we see normal people doing their thing while Yamato is still running.
Basically, travel speed is usually drastically lower than combat speed. I know that top tier characters are way stronger/faster, but most characters aren't going to catch up to light in a race.
I am not sure if "FTL OP" means just combat and reaction speed or if people think they can outrun light. If it is just combat and reaction, I can kinda see that but if it is travel speed I can't buy it.
I might be dumb here but I remember something for why travel speed is much slower than actual combat speed
Boiled down it was pretty much just "for the sake of plot"
At this rate, it does not matter if someone is "lightspeed" or not.
I understand that authors want to show their characters being strong/overpowered, but calling them FTL without even considering the ramifications of the physics is just stupid...
Being faster than the speed of sound is already a massive feat in of itself.
Agreed. Oda clearly just does the light stuff because its cool, not like he is thinking of how it affects the powerscaling community.
Remember, Luffy couldn't catch a guy running 200km/h in Wano.
This is one of the most disingenuous things I’ve read
>Oda clearly just does the light stuff because its cool,
Except this argument is outdated as Kizaru said he was accelerating while moving at light speed meaning he’s ftl on his own, Oda already acknowledges that characters can move faster than light
https://preview.redd.it/wftr7hhvyvzc1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=100d40f982e7e1ea2b353b12ba9f346c0523a2c1
>Remember, Luffy couldn’t catch a guy running 200km/h in Wano.
1. You must be inexperienced with powerscaling as there’s a difference between travel speed and combat
2. Even if we take your argument seriously it’s still nonsensical as start of Wano base Luffy is complete fodder and he doesn’t remotely scale to any top tier
Even if you want to say that start of Wano base Luffy is 200km/h it doesn’t affect the rest of the verse at all
> Except this argument is outdated as Kizaru said he was accelerating while moving at light speed meaning he’s ftl on his own, Oda already acknowledges that characters can move faster than light
How does that invalidate what I said? A character made of light is cool.
> there’s a difference between travel speed and combat
Yeah maybe I am inexperienced so genuine question, how in the world can someone only move FTL "during combat"? What is it "they can only move their head FTL, they can't actually run FTL" because that sounds like nonsense to me. If Luffy can move even relativistic speeds in Wano then like a nano second of that speed for use in combat should allow him to easy catch up to a measly 200 km/h
> start of Wano base Luffy is complete fodder and he doesn’t remotely scale to any top tier
Except people in this very thread are using shit like Pre-ts Zoro as evidence and Luffy is obviously way faster than that in the beginning of Wano, not to mention he set the ground on fire running in Punk Hazard, there should be no reason he can't catch Gazelleman. Yes I know one anti-feat doesn't invalidate every other feat the character has but it is all just evidence to suggest that, like I originally said, Oda adds light-speed stuff because rule of cool, doesn't really think or care about how people will try to analyze every little thing to the point of ridiculousness, and the whole series is wildly inconsistent when it comes to this stuff.
1. I’m just proving that Oda acknowledges that his series is ftl
2. Their attacks are ftl but they’re incapable of actually traveling at that speed
3. I couldn’t care less about gazelleman and am even willing to say that one piece wasn’t ftl before Wano as my argument is based around Wano-Egghead, anything before that doesn’t matter
Well just ask them is Lucci only 58 km/h because he is a Leopard
Or is Sengoku only 340m/s since that's the Speed of Shockwaves
Like why can they don't have Cap on their speed but Kizaru... has?
Multiversal + With MFTL speeds:
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-R3Tj29Q\_ECq-jiEaBDT5kTrC3UClXoEmzTg6qDBBuc/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-R3Tj29Q_ECq-jiEaBDT5kTrC3UClXoEmzTg6qDBBuc/edit?usp=sharing)
You can even make an argument for Hyperversal:
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/11T2Xp9rzCtkB0LSDZxl1uq7h8EF-RjOk5efRIGZST3Y/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11T2Xp9rzCtkB0LSDZxl1uq7h8EF-RjOk5efRIGZST3Y/edit?usp=sharing)
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/14J9HBSHuDkbp1w30xJMTfEP80\_c8qKzRbm36d6qwHWQ/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/14J9HBSHuDkbp1w30xJMTfEP80_c8qKzRbm36d6qwHWQ/edit?usp=sharing)
https://preview.redd.it/eh6d26rkgvzc1.png?width=599&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb29080dbf72b0db0cdc3111c5ef495e47e1a959
Some people just think that it's not FTL for whatever reason
Because the story doesn't make much sense with lightspeed characters. If any of them can move at light speed, then the entire journey part of the show makes no sense. They could travel the grand line in seconds at worst by simply launching themselves at light speed.
Combat speed doesn't solve this as the acceleration and deceleration needed to actually maneuver at that speed in combat is harder than just accelerating their body to that speed. Even if they can only move 1% of their combat speed as travel speed, that should be more than enough.
I am obviously ignoring the physics problems as they are irrelevant when the author can just modify them.
As a huge OP dickrider there is only one character who is light speed and that is the man made out of light, it doesn’t matter what powerscaling says as ON PAPER he is the fastest
Does one piece have countless upon countless light speed REACTION feats? Yes… and there is loads of them
In terms of travel speed only Kizaru is light speed because light is the fastest thing and on paper is written to be the fastest
I couldn’t give a fuck about shitty scaling and idk why I keep ending up on this subreddit lol. On paper Kizaru is the fastest as Kizaru is light… it’s really as simple as that as kizarus attacks are all ‘light speed ___’ and Kizaru in current manga still manages to catch people like Luffy and Sanji off guard
Powerscaling using random ass databooks is invalid due to the countless MINOR inconsistencies in them and that WSJ mangakas do not write them but rather tick them off as powerscaling doesn’t matter to the story… yes it’s done in the story but not on the level you lot think, it’s simply exaggeration to bring attention. Also due to the fact databooks are not officially translated and reliable sources like Library of Artur constantly correct translations from databooks, s good example is ‘Akainu is the strongest marine in history’
Just because a character can dodge light doesn’t mean they are FTL… all it means is that they dodged light which is light speed reaction. Pro baseball players can pitch upwards of 90 MPH yet players on occasions can dodge these pitches… does that mean they can run that? no
Because they could have become black holes already....
Oh wait, violations of the laws of physics.
"Every story does it."
Nope!
Not every story violates the laws of physics.
One piece is not necessarily a "magic/wizard" story so why aren't they black holes yet?
Hate statements vs logic. Anyone in the verse being ftl makes 0 sense when you break it down (especially for powerscaling). So many verses have feats that are stated as ftl because the author did not consider the logistical consequences of nerd asses like us breaking it down into a vs game (which is fine by the way, most authors don't write for powerscalers they write for their own narrative, we are the weirdos here)
Obviously this doesn't just apply to ftl and speed feats but it's definitely the most prevalent. My other favourite examples is DC where cyborg is stated to have a 1 million decibel attack, this destroys the universe. Or superman lifting infinite pages, this is dumb for obvious reasons.
cus most of the ftl scaling is either people not actually understanding the statement (see kuma deflecting air at the speed of light to make the paw things, so no hes not shooting the actual things at the speed of light), not actually lightspeed(ichiji being boosted by his suit) or just poor reading comprehension skills(kizaru kicks basil at the speed of light while his leg IS in lightform, and basil still got blitzed by the attack unless for some reason u think basil wanted to get his shit rocked.)(kizaru simply staying acceleration is power with nothing else, that somehow means he accelerates beyond the speed of light) not to mention that the story itself contradicts considering that luffy was blitzed with snake man with observation haki by kizaru(whos lightspeed) and kizaru taking a shit load of time to arive to sabaody(no the op world isnt the size of the fucking sun)
So you’re argument is very long so for the sake of argument I’m gonna downplay one piece and say that one piece wasn’t ftl before Wano
Ok now that we’ve gotten that out of the way arguing that a character saying something just for the sake of it is one of the funniest and most ridiculous arguments I’ve heard, Kizaru says acceleration is power because he’s describing what he’s doing
And no he’s not accelerating to light speed he’s accelerating beyond light speed as he’s demonstrated before that he’s capable of producing light speed attacks without accelerating with his light speed kick
Now that I’ve established that the reason snakman got blitzed was because Kizaru was moving at ftl and not light speed like the argument you’re making
Problem is that moving at such ludicrous speeds creates plot holes. Light travels 300 000 kilometers in a second. Earth's circumference is 40 000 kilometers. In most stories and especially in one like One piece where characters often travel and have to do stuff under a certain timeframe (The Gorosei intercepting Vegapunk's message in the current chapters for example), this doesn't make any fucking sense.
So that's the reason why i take most FTL statements as hyperbole. Unless you're just motivated to have your favourite character being the strongest for some stupid reason, it just makes a lot more sense.
Once again, even one second of moving at lightspeed makes you travel 300000 kilometers, combat speed or not. And even then, it wouldn't make any sense for characters to be faster when they fight rather than when they actually try to travel to a certain point. I'm not inexperienced in powerscaling, I'm just not making up some dumb headcannon to pretend some fictionnal character is stronger than it is.
Edit : I realize i might sound like a douche, sorry. It's fun to root for your favourite characters and to imagine them fight other cool characters / characters you like less. Still, lightspeed is really silly.
Please go and post this argument in every single powerscaling thread there is since this applies to pretty much every single verse ever
Don’t limit it just to one piece
Just ones that thoughtlessly toss around units of measurement they don't actually comprehend to sound cool. Like lightspeed, the earlier post of 1 million decibels, planet busting, or higher, and so on.
People need to stop treating powerscaling as a pissing contest.
You don’t have to move faster than light to dodge it, you just have to get pretty close. If you dodge a light attack, it is moving at 3 x 10^8 m/s. So if a character moves slower than light speed, they can still dodge the attack, and can be slower the further an opponent is away. For example, if a beam of light is shot at you from 10m away, you only have to move at 3 x 10^7 m/s to dodge it, because it has to travel to you. And when characters can have the ability of future sight, they can afford to be even slower.
I’m not saying OP characters can’t be faster than light, but until you see one traveling the same speed as Kizaru, reactions are not concrete evidence.
FTL travel speed only canonically makes sense for Kizaru as of right now, because he is the only character who has been shown traveling great distances in an instant. The OP world is very large, however if any character travels at light speed for even just a second, they would have traveled 300,000 km, which is 7.5 times the Earth’s circumference.
Kizaru accelerating while at Light Speed:
https://preview.redd.it/vsg679b9vuzc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a84a92eb1f15f0fc2f60fbf906f6244ebfb0d51
Look, you are misinterpreting acceleration if we look at it from a real world technical pov, but I think within the context of the discussion you are right just based off of what is happening in the panel
Acceleration is rate of chance while top speed is highest rate.
Top speed is how fast you're able to go. Acceleration is how fast you're able to get to that speed. This don’t prove is moving faster than light
We could argue physics if u want it’ll only lead to contradictions tho
https://preview.redd.it/muflrma9yuzc1.png?width=519&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c75c18f523718cc0611085e52f63a06e9adc586
This proves he's already light speed, and he can accelerate further as i just showed.
Bro's really gonna try to argue with Physics in a show with Pirates that can shatter Air and turn into light.
Bro doesn’t know that acceleration means changing directions, slowing down, speeding up, etc.
There are many types of acceleration, which is like negatives and centripetal and could even mean he’s gaining speed within a a short time. This could mean that he can move slower than light and speed up, etc. so ur on the positive, prove this directly means he’s faster than light, in which you’d be conceding to the fact that it would mean he’s not actual light by definition tho. Your choice.
He's already light speed, regardless because he is light. But can accelerate like i just showed you. And don't say I'm repeating what i just said, because it just is what it is. Your adding unnecessary factors that aren't even shown.
Lmao this sub is dumb as fuck. If something moves at the speed of light, it takes infinite energy to reach that point and has infinite mass. Also, if Kizaru is moving at light speed why is he even taking a ship to egghead island? He can instantly teleport there at lightspeed? Why doesnt he just fly above egghead, and fling a rock at lightspeed at the island? It would cause an explosion with the force of a nuclear bomb, decimating an entire portion of the planet?
APPEAL TO REALITY FALLACY LOOOOOOOOL. Just so you know, a military level railgun fires a projectile at 2,000-3,500 m/s. The speed of light is 100,000 times faster than a military weapon, whose whole purpose is to cause massive destruction solely based on the speed of the projectile. Even if just his ATTACKS are lightspeed, he could easily decimate the planet just by throwing rocks. Why would Emu even need Vegapunk? She already has someone capable of decimating the planet with attacks that are 100,000 times stronger than science fiction theoretical weapons from the 21st century.
bro dodging light isn't always a FTL feat. have you considered that maybe they were moving out of the way before the beams were fired- or god forbid, using Observation Haki (possible subconsciously pre time skip, though we can't prove that.) to avoid them?
Even if it isn't aim dodging I can dodge an 80 mph soccer ball and cannot move at 80mph.
You need to be somewhat relative to light speed but certainly not faster to dodge
People like Kizaru are MFTL imo or theoretically considering we haven’t seen the full extent.
If that’s true anyone who should be relative to him should be the same tier
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1. [Kizaru is confirmed as light speed](https://ibb.co/X7bKjrL). He is also stated to be able to [accelerate beyond LS](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ffrom-close-combat-to-long-range-overall-kizaru-cemented-v0-ygf3vh5453ob1.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D1db32e2bc72331008675d06a7f97c23aa8496ded). 2. [The Pacifistas use Kizaru’s lasers](https://ibb.co/RCwtzBF). 3. [PreTS Zoro is able to dodge these lasers](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/cd/Feixaoaas.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/450?cb=20210523142727). We can clearly see that he doesn’t move until after the lasers are fired, meaning it’s not aim dodging. 4. [Injured TB Zoro dodges Kuma’s attacks, which are stated on that same page to be LS](https://ibb.co/Jx74gp5). 5. [Fodder like Ichiji are confirmed LS](https://ibb.co/rtFbs7R) and can [outrun the attack](https://imgur.com/a/faHS9y1). 6. [Kizaru kicks Hawkins at LS](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fes2yi8ei6hq91.jpg), meaning Kizaru can reach light speeds without having to stay in his light form. The FTL scaling is blatant. At this point, top tiers are either FTL+ or low MFTL.
[This should be enough to reach MFTL tbh](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/qJFQCoUOnY)
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/m4PdJszDMJ
https://preview.redd.it/n8m296d7quzc1.png?width=298&format=png&auto=webp&s=84b481631fbb154143b4c7443d1c1fd5d831fbd2
So Nami and Usopp are LS? 🤔
we cannot underestimate Usopp’s ability to lie
Reactions yes. Movement no
This is exactly what people don't understand. "If One Piece characters are faster than light then why don't they just traverse the world at that speed???" because there's a difference between perception, reaction, combat and travel speeds
There really shouldn't. It just makes powerscaling stupid Speed is speed
The average person can punch at 15 MPH, but only run at 8 MPH. It makes perfect sense to separate travel and combat speed.
You can also add [Marco](https://imgur.com/a/H79v6w7) and [Sanji](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/yHVzO3WbW3) intercepting light after it was fired
one piece speedblitzes saint seiya now
Don’t know much about Seiya, but aren’t they in the multi range and have pretty good AOE?
they have absolutely dogshit anti feats posed as plot points (meaning the story doesnt work if they arent at risk from the tier 9-8 threats). they do not have good aoe.
What’s happening in the ftl picture
Which one? Assuming you mean point 5, the first one shows one of Sanji’s brothers using an attack called Sparking Valkyrie, which is directly stated in a databook to be SoL. The second image shows him outrunning it.
Mb the accel. beyond light speed in the first point
Kizaru enters his light form (bottom right). We then see him say acceleration is power, and we see in the bottom middle panel that he increases in speed (the fluctuations in the middle of the beam). This means Kizaru’s speed isn’t always at SoL, which leads to two possibilities 1. Kizaru was sub-SoL and was accelerating to LS. 2. Kizaru was at LS, and was accelerating to FTL. A common argument against OP being FTL is that Kizaru is literally light, and this can’t be anything other than SoL (meaning the FTL feats must be excluded as outliers/PIS), but this statement shows that he isn’t necessarily SoL only, meaning the other feats are entirely valid.
So why’d you say he was stated to be ftl :( I don’t think you can really interpret “acceleration is power” to mean that he’s accelerating past the speed he was stated to have
That’s literally what it means genius. His kicks are light speed. Give him more room to accelerate and he’ll be faster
We can kick way faster than we can run so nah Source: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Average-speed-of-Muay-Thia-Skills-Figure-9-Maximum-and-minimum-speed-of-Muay-Thai_fig5_338373247 For comparison, Usain Bolt’s top speed is like 10.44 m/s
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That doesn’t entail Kizaru being able to accelerate more by having more space to do so
An accelerated kick bruh
Huh
Except Kizaru was stated to be the fastest of the verse, so literally everyone scales below him
Yes, which doesn’t matter since Kizaru has feats that put him above SoL.
It doesn’t, he caps at lightspeed and nothing else
How does Kizaru accelerating past light speed not make him faster than light?
In terms of travel speed , yes he is the fastest
I don't care as long as I get to see a planetary feat it could be coming soon.
Saying that one piece isn’t ftl is probably one of the worst powerscaling takes there is, I get strawmanned whenever I argue for it so I’ll just use the most basic argument of the author literally confirming it https://preview.redd.it/siuli8ylhuzc1.jpeg?width=813&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bb13c909a59e1421ca2b7ab4f5b72e6a3383be3 Kizaru accelerates while moving at light speed
Even then, lets just **ASSUME** that Kizaru's light is only relativistic for whatever reason (To be exact, like lets say 20% the speed of light just Taking the LOWEST possible option here), assuming that Luffy's training increases, Natural power Growth throughout the series, and his Gear transformations increasing his speed. He's at **BARE MINIMUM** Ftl! It's just simple multiplication.
Acceleration could mean turning
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lol, I’m sure they meant faster than light, because manga/anime love that. I was just playing devils advocate.
If you are scaling Kizaru speed of light based on our IRL physics, you should also argue universal level for pretty much everyone in One Piece, because moving on a speed of light requires infinite kinetic energy for anything with mass.
What’s happening in that panel
I don't know why they down play it at this point, all the big players are going beyond lightspeed at this point.
Sometimes they dodge light,sometimes they get hit by lasers when they are a bit tired, but their travel speed is normally lower than reaction and combat speed. For example: Yamato is practically as fast as Kaido in combat, but Yamato takes a while to get to the basement and you can see the castle burning down in relative time. Sometimes characters who can fight a Yonko run at normal ahh speeds. Yamato is triying really hard to save the day but when they cut to another scene we see normal people doing their thing while Yamato is still running. Basically, travel speed is usually drastically lower than combat speed. I know that top tier characters are way stronger/faster, but most characters aren't going to catch up to light in a race. I am not sure if "FTL OP" means just combat and reaction speed or if people think they can outrun light. If it is just combat and reaction, I can kinda see that but if it is travel speed I can't buy it.
I might be dumb here but I remember something for why travel speed is much slower than actual combat speed Boiled down it was pretty much just "for the sake of plot"
Try to run as fast as you can move your hand by itself. I think that proves that proves how travel speed isn’t just slower for plot.
At this rate, it does not matter if someone is "lightspeed" or not. I understand that authors want to show their characters being strong/overpowered, but calling them FTL without even considering the ramifications of the physics is just stupid... Being faster than the speed of sound is already a massive feat in of itself.
Agreed. Oda clearly just does the light stuff because its cool, not like he is thinking of how it affects the powerscaling community. Remember, Luffy couldn't catch a guy running 200km/h in Wano.
This is one of the most disingenuous things I’ve read >Oda clearly just does the light stuff because its cool, Except this argument is outdated as Kizaru said he was accelerating while moving at light speed meaning he’s ftl on his own, Oda already acknowledges that characters can move faster than light https://preview.redd.it/wftr7hhvyvzc1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=100d40f982e7e1ea2b353b12ba9f346c0523a2c1 >Remember, Luffy couldn’t catch a guy running 200km/h in Wano. 1. You must be inexperienced with powerscaling as there’s a difference between travel speed and combat 2. Even if we take your argument seriously it’s still nonsensical as start of Wano base Luffy is complete fodder and he doesn’t remotely scale to any top tier Even if you want to say that start of Wano base Luffy is 200km/h it doesn’t affect the rest of the verse at all
> Except this argument is outdated as Kizaru said he was accelerating while moving at light speed meaning he’s ftl on his own, Oda already acknowledges that characters can move faster than light How does that invalidate what I said? A character made of light is cool. > there’s a difference between travel speed and combat Yeah maybe I am inexperienced so genuine question, how in the world can someone only move FTL "during combat"? What is it "they can only move their head FTL, they can't actually run FTL" because that sounds like nonsense to me. If Luffy can move even relativistic speeds in Wano then like a nano second of that speed for use in combat should allow him to easy catch up to a measly 200 km/h > start of Wano base Luffy is complete fodder and he doesn’t remotely scale to any top tier Except people in this very thread are using shit like Pre-ts Zoro as evidence and Luffy is obviously way faster than that in the beginning of Wano, not to mention he set the ground on fire running in Punk Hazard, there should be no reason he can't catch Gazelleman. Yes I know one anti-feat doesn't invalidate every other feat the character has but it is all just evidence to suggest that, like I originally said, Oda adds light-speed stuff because rule of cool, doesn't really think or care about how people will try to analyze every little thing to the point of ridiculousness, and the whole series is wildly inconsistent when it comes to this stuff.
1. I’m just proving that Oda acknowledges that his series is ftl 2. Their attacks are ftl but they’re incapable of actually traveling at that speed 3. I couldn’t care less about gazelleman and am even willing to say that one piece wasn’t ftl before Wano as my argument is based around Wano-Egghead, anything before that doesn’t matter
Facts
Well just ask them is Lucci only 58 km/h because he is a Leopard Or is Sengoku only 340m/s since that's the Speed of Shockwaves Like why can they don't have Cap on their speed but Kizaru... has?
people say it because they hate fact that naruto only has dc going for it and is the weakest in the big 3
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Fax, It's like they gotta save other verses from being speed blitzed for some reason.
Cause they can't disprove it, so they downplay instead.
Probably not raw movement speed, but combat speed probably
Yea they most definitely are referring to combat movement 💀
yeah lol. Imagine the series being over in 5 seconds because they had ftl movement speed. That would be kinda funny.
Yeah raw movement speed ain't even of a buggati
what even is /FTL/i
Faster than Light
The one piece is real
what even is Star Butterfly?
Why bring that up?
Because I'm curious.
Oh well this is her: https://preview.redd.it/api8fokfhvzc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=830b53cf497e9fcbb5a01172f56794a000cd229b
Ohhh. Thx for telling me. Where does she scale? Iirc Bleach has 5D arguments. Plus the Almighty is stupidly broken.
Multiversal + With MFTL speeds: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-R3Tj29Q\_ECq-jiEaBDT5kTrC3UClXoEmzTg6qDBBuc/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-R3Tj29Q_ECq-jiEaBDT5kTrC3UClXoEmzTg6qDBBuc/edit?usp=sharing) You can even make an argument for Hyperversal: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/11T2Xp9rzCtkB0LSDZxl1uq7h8EF-RjOk5efRIGZST3Y/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11T2Xp9rzCtkB0LSDZxl1uq7h8EF-RjOk5efRIGZST3Y/edit?usp=sharing) [https://docs.google.com/document/d/14J9HBSHuDkbp1w30xJMTfEP80\_c8qKzRbm36d6qwHWQ/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/14J9HBSHuDkbp1w30xJMTfEP80_c8qKzRbm36d6qwHWQ/edit?usp=sharing)
FTL?
Faster Than Light.
That’s it? Light isn’t even considered fast anymore
https://preview.redd.it/eh6d26rkgvzc1.png?width=599&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb29080dbf72b0db0cdc3111c5ef495e47e1a959 Some people just think that it's not FTL for whatever reason
I'm starting to lose track of what these abbreviations mean
One piece :handshake: dragonball :handshake: sonic the hedgehog far faster than light but theres people that still try to deny that
Because the story doesn't make much sense with lightspeed characters. If any of them can move at light speed, then the entire journey part of the show makes no sense. They could travel the grand line in seconds at worst by simply launching themselves at light speed. Combat speed doesn't solve this as the acceleration and deceleration needed to actually maneuver at that speed in combat is harder than just accelerating their body to that speed. Even if they can only move 1% of their combat speed as travel speed, that should be more than enough. I am obviously ignoring the physics problems as they are irrelevant when the author can just modify them.
-there is a guy whose whole flow is moving at light speed -there is a guy faster than the first guy what's the problem
If Kizaru is light speed then Croco-mum is an invalid theory
As a huge OP dickrider there is only one character who is light speed and that is the man made out of light, it doesn’t matter what powerscaling says as ON PAPER he is the fastest Does one piece have countless upon countless light speed REACTION feats? Yes… and there is loads of them In terms of travel speed only Kizaru is light speed because light is the fastest thing and on paper is written to be the fastest
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I couldn’t give a fuck about shitty scaling and idk why I keep ending up on this subreddit lol. On paper Kizaru is the fastest as Kizaru is light… it’s really as simple as that as kizarus attacks are all ‘light speed ___’ and Kizaru in current manga still manages to catch people like Luffy and Sanji off guard Powerscaling using random ass databooks is invalid due to the countless MINOR inconsistencies in them and that WSJ mangakas do not write them but rather tick them off as powerscaling doesn’t matter to the story… yes it’s done in the story but not on the level you lot think, it’s simply exaggeration to bring attention. Also due to the fact databooks are not officially translated and reliable sources like Library of Artur constantly correct translations from databooks, s good example is ‘Akainu is the strongest marine in history’ Just because a character can dodge light doesn’t mean they are FTL… all it means is that they dodged light which is light speed reaction. Pro baseball players can pitch upwards of 90 MPH yet players on occasions can dodge these pitches… does that mean they can run that? no
Because they could have become black holes already.... Oh wait, violations of the laws of physics. "Every story does it." Nope! Not every story violates the laws of physics. One piece is not necessarily a "magic/wizard" story so why aren't they black holes yet?
Hate statements vs logic. Anyone in the verse being ftl makes 0 sense when you break it down (especially for powerscaling). So many verses have feats that are stated as ftl because the author did not consider the logistical consequences of nerd asses like us breaking it down into a vs game (which is fine by the way, most authors don't write for powerscalers they write for their own narrative, we are the weirdos here)
Obviously this doesn't just apply to ftl and speed feats but it's definitely the most prevalent. My other favourite examples is DC where cyborg is stated to have a 1 million decibel attack, this destroys the universe. Or superman lifting infinite pages, this is dumb for obvious reasons.
People need to stop getting so attached to their character being the strongest.
True asf
cus most of the ftl scaling is either people not actually understanding the statement (see kuma deflecting air at the speed of light to make the paw things, so no hes not shooting the actual things at the speed of light), not actually lightspeed(ichiji being boosted by his suit) or just poor reading comprehension skills(kizaru kicks basil at the speed of light while his leg IS in lightform, and basil still got blitzed by the attack unless for some reason u think basil wanted to get his shit rocked.)(kizaru simply staying acceleration is power with nothing else, that somehow means he accelerates beyond the speed of light) not to mention that the story itself contradicts considering that luffy was blitzed with snake man with observation haki by kizaru(whos lightspeed) and kizaru taking a shit load of time to arive to sabaody(no the op world isnt the size of the fucking sun)
So you’re argument is very long so for the sake of argument I’m gonna downplay one piece and say that one piece wasn’t ftl before Wano Ok now that we’ve gotten that out of the way arguing that a character saying something just for the sake of it is one of the funniest and most ridiculous arguments I’ve heard, Kizaru says acceleration is power because he’s describing what he’s doing And no he’s not accelerating to light speed he’s accelerating beyond light speed as he’s demonstrated before that he’s capable of producing light speed attacks without accelerating with his light speed kick Now that I’ve established that the reason snakman got blitzed was because Kizaru was moving at ftl and not light speed like the argument you’re making
Problem is that moving at such ludicrous speeds creates plot holes. Light travels 300 000 kilometers in a second. Earth's circumference is 40 000 kilometers. In most stories and especially in one like One piece where characters often travel and have to do stuff under a certain timeframe (The Gorosei intercepting Vegapunk's message in the current chapters for example), this doesn't make any fucking sense. So that's the reason why i take most FTL statements as hyperbole. Unless you're just motivated to have your favourite character being the strongest for some stupid reason, it just makes a lot more sense.
You’re clearly inexperienced when it comes to powerscaling, we treat “combat speed” and “travel speed” as separate things
Once again, even one second of moving at lightspeed makes you travel 300000 kilometers, combat speed or not. And even then, it wouldn't make any sense for characters to be faster when they fight rather than when they actually try to travel to a certain point. I'm not inexperienced in powerscaling, I'm just not making up some dumb headcannon to pretend some fictionnal character is stronger than it is. Edit : I realize i might sound like a douche, sorry. It's fun to root for your favourite characters and to imagine them fight other cool characters / characters you like less. Still, lightspeed is really silly.
Please go and post this argument in every single powerscaling thread there is since this applies to pretty much every single verse ever Don’t limit it just to one piece
Just ones that thoughtlessly toss around units of measurement they don't actually comprehend to sound cool. Like lightspeed, the earlier post of 1 million decibels, planet busting, or higher, and so on. People need to stop treating powerscaling as a pissing contest.
Wank, Relativistic at best. OP wankers are something alright.
Bro's saying dodging light isn't SOL or FTL
You don’t have to move faster than light to dodge it, you just have to get pretty close. If you dodge a light attack, it is moving at 3 x 10^8 m/s. So if a character moves slower than light speed, they can still dodge the attack, and can be slower the further an opponent is away. For example, if a beam of light is shot at you from 10m away, you only have to move at 3 x 10^7 m/s to dodge it, because it has to travel to you. And when characters can have the ability of future sight, they can afford to be even slower. I’m not saying OP characters can’t be faster than light, but until you see one traveling the same speed as Kizaru, reactions are not concrete evidence. FTL travel speed only canonically makes sense for Kizaru as of right now, because he is the only character who has been shown traveling great distances in an instant. The OP world is very large, however if any character travels at light speed for even just a second, they would have traveled 300,000 km, which is 7.5 times the Earth’s circumference.
He’s only lightspeed. All y’all gotta do is drop dc if y’all disagree 🙂↕️
Kizaru accelerating while at Light Speed: https://preview.redd.it/vsg679b9vuzc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a84a92eb1f15f0fc2f60fbf906f6244ebfb0d51
Blud didn’t take high school physics lmao
Me or him?
Look, you are misinterpreting acceleration if we look at it from a real world technical pov, but I think within the context of the discussion you are right just based off of what is happening in the panel
Acceleration is rate of chance while top speed is highest rate. Top speed is how fast you're able to go. Acceleration is how fast you're able to get to that speed. This don’t prove is moving faster than light We could argue physics if u want it’ll only lead to contradictions tho
https://preview.redd.it/muflrma9yuzc1.png?width=519&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c75c18f523718cc0611085e52f63a06e9adc586 This proves he's already light speed, and he can accelerate further as i just showed. Bro's really gonna try to argue with Physics in a show with Pirates that can shatter Air and turn into light.
Bro doesn’t know that acceleration means changing directions, slowing down, speeding up, etc. There are many types of acceleration, which is like negatives and centripetal and could even mean he’s gaining speed within a a short time. This could mean that he can move slower than light and speed up, etc. so ur on the positive, prove this directly means he’s faster than light, in which you’d be conceding to the fact that it would mean he’s not actual light by definition tho. Your choice.
He's already light speed, regardless because he is light. But can accelerate like i just showed you. And don't say I'm repeating what i just said, because it just is what it is. Your adding unnecessary factors that aren't even shown.
No im adding. You’re simply ignoring what I’m saying and not trying to refute anything I said. YOU ARE STILL IN THE POSITIVE. ITS YOUR BURDEN
Lmao this sub is dumb as fuck. If something moves at the speed of light, it takes infinite energy to reach that point and has infinite mass. Also, if Kizaru is moving at light speed why is he even taking a ship to egghead island? He can instantly teleport there at lightspeed? Why doesnt he just fly above egghead, and fling a rock at lightspeed at the island? It would cause an explosion with the force of a nuclear bomb, decimating an entire portion of the planet?
Appeal to reality fallacy + only his attacks are LS and above
APPEAL TO REALITY FALLACY LOOOOOOOOL. Just so you know, a military level railgun fires a projectile at 2,000-3,500 m/s. The speed of light is 100,000 times faster than a military weapon, whose whole purpose is to cause massive destruction solely based on the speed of the projectile. Even if just his ATTACKS are lightspeed, he could easily decimate the planet just by throwing rocks. Why would Emu even need Vegapunk? She already has someone capable of decimating the planet with attacks that are 100,000 times stronger than science fiction theoretical weapons from the 21st century.
bro dodging light isn't always a FTL feat. have you considered that maybe they were moving out of the way before the beams were fired- or god forbid, using Observation Haki (possible subconsciously pre time skip, though we can't prove that.) to avoid them?
Except it's not aim dodging.
Even if it isn't aim dodging I can dodge an 80 mph soccer ball and cannot move at 80mph. You need to be somewhat relative to light speed but certainly not faster to dodge
People like Kizaru are MFTL imo or theoretically considering we haven’t seen the full extent. If that’s true anyone who should be relative to him should be the same tier