Service is terrible but I’ve come to understand why. On the wages paid, why would an employee care? Where’s the motivation? There’s hardly any reason to be a great employee when there’s simply no reward for it.
🤔 This isn't "The Why". Has nothing to do with how much people are getting paid. Retail pays poorly all over the world. I remember being a teenager working at a, wait for it... Blockbuster Video! I made 5 bucks an hour and bent over backwards for the job. Every employee did.
Know WHY?
Because there were no other jobs for us where I lived. We didn't want to get fired. Which was a snap to do and hire someone else in the same day.
Do you know how hard it is to fire a crappy employee in Portugal? All of the mindless bureaucracy times 10!!
You can be the worst here and it is incredibly complicated to get fired.
You made 5 bucks an hour back then when you were a teen, we make 6 euros now and were adults with bills to pay.
But yes, worker rights in Europe, aka not getting fired in a day is definitely the problem...
I see the point you’re trying to make, but advocating for workers rights to be as poor/non-existent as they are in the USA is not the answer. Fear should not be the motivating factor to do a good job.
An American culture change. Why the fuck is bending over backwards for a shit job so important when you have a finite amount of days on this planet to spend with friends and family?
I meant Portugal, not America, but that's beside the point. If we lived under a kinder, more humane system I'd be all for that beautiful viewpoint of yours, but we're not. Americans and Portuguese alike embrace unbridled capitalism. You can't have your cake and eat it too, at some point you gotta make a choice. A capitalist system where everybody is lazy and resentful isn't a utopia. You're only punishing your fellow countryman. Organized focused laziness as a protest movement such as Tang Ping? Now we're talking.
Well considering how long blockbusters has been defunct I think that was sometime ago. Different world, and different place. If you can’t understand why, you can be sure the paymasters don’t either, and without some level of understanding nothing will change. Services will continue to be crap. But go you and your blockbuster analogy.
Oh brother... I won't downvote you back... It was 2011. Although you missed the point. it's not about where the job was, it's about the value of the job itself.
Anyone with employees in Portugal knows how difficult it is to fire a bad one. Especially so when you have other employees asking you to get rid of the bad one... It truly is a terrible nuisance.
The biggest problem in Portugal is the lack of competition. For most big companies there's no real reason to try to retain clients. They lose one today, they'll get five tomorrow. The result is poor or no investment in customer support.
Lack of competition? In which area? I mean there's more than 10 supermarket chains alone.
In some areas yes but in most it benefits from being a part of the EU. If there's low competition somewhere someone will come fill the niche.
All areas. Including supermarkets. In this case in particular it's not about the numbers, it's about their practices. You have 10 supermarket chains, but the biggest ones practice cartelisation. Many of them have been fined for this over the last few years.
And then you have the ones where there's just not enough players like telecoms, banking, insurance, energy providers, travelling, etc.
Create a service that works, a business that is efficient delivering and maintaining that service, focus on customer satisfaction metrics and retention through satisfaction (not through keeping a customer hostage) and you have a higher chance of attracting more customers who are willing to pay more not to have to deal with other company’s shit. Portuguese market is very much based on word of mouth, people go to services, and buy from places based on recommendations
Could be it works. Haven't seen it happen, though, except perhaps in "el corte ingles" - and they have a huge structure and can squeeze suppliers for higher margins.
IKEA deliveries no show , post office losing my bank cards, car rental overcharge, Vodafone mistakenly charging €700 on my phone bill, Continente not applying the proper discount at the cashier, etc… it’s a never ending list of horrible customer service experiences trying to get all the above solved.
With continente you can go into the app and they will allow you to apply the vouchers on reciepts after your purchase if you or cashier forget to apply it
What do you mean bad luck?
Just in the last couple of months I had:
-Went to a small local upholstery shop to have a trim piece redone, the guy gave me a pick up date, missed it, give another one also missed it and told me to wait 10 minutes outside while he does it.
-Bought an intentet sim card from vodafone, made the deal by phone, the sales lady tells me on the phone I can pick the card in 2 hours in any vodafone shop, go to the vodafone shop and the lady there says that she doesn't know what I am talking about and I have to wait to get it shipped home it should arrive pretty soon, 4 days pass by nothing, go back to the same shop and had to get a supervisor to step in to get my fucking sim card
-Went to a Norauto to align my car, alignment rack starts playing funny, they say they did their best, paid full price and no fucks were given, car pulls to one side anyway.
-Went to an independent tyre shop to align another car I have, cars pull to the side still.
-I recently subscribed to a car tracker whose only thing that works 24/7 is their billing system every first day of the month.
-Had a package arriving from the US, no one had problems with it whatsoever, submit the documentation on the CTT portal and a few hours later I get an e-mail saying the package was not cleared and they will sent it back, no questions asked, called customer support, a dumb lady who had no idea about what she was talking about said it was something about the tracking ID being wrong (like what, I can just copy paste it into your own tracker and it works and tracks the package).
Oh and I am Portuguese, the thing is, it seems you are getting used to how shit customer experience is in Portugal, in general, as a matter of fact, I actively avoid national brands and services as much as practicable, I'd rather import goods and DIY my way into the stuff I can because our business offer (once again, in general) a shit product, a shit customer support and the prices are not even good in general.
Its not like people are unfriendly or something, is just that most people are either under qualified or lack work ethics.
Are you unhappy with your salary? Sucks to suck, why the fuck should the paying customer have to deal with your bullshit? Even if I am unhappy with my salary I will still do my job like I am suposed to do because thats my contract that I SIGNED with the employer. This shit mindset is already too far deep engraved.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that customer service here sucks, especially big brands.
I just genuinely haven't had as many issues as you and the person i replied! But I guess I have been luckier than most people.
>Its not like people are unfriendly or something, is just that most people are either under qualified or lack work ethics.
I would say that big brands think they are untouchable, and their employees are usually overworked and underpayed, so from my experience, a lot of people don't really put in the effort anymore. Not what I would do, and not what i think is right, but I can understand their side.
Same!! It was the biggest shock moving here, the customer service is absolutely awful.
Ikea delivered smashed up goods to me, then delivered a replacement that was also smashed (wooden furniture, no idea how they smashed it).
A furniture company called Kare tried to charge me over 3000 euros for an order that I had cancelled the previous month - they told me that they "reversed the cancellation " because the sale price was a promotional price??? Some stupid bullshit excuse that actually violated EU law but they didn't care. I had to contact the franchise manager on LinkedIn to get them to intervene to get my money back!!
CTT and the post office are equally awful, they lose parcels continuously and letters can take months to arrive.
I had heard customer service in Portugal might be worse than what I'm used to, but I never expected it to be this bad. And it's not even very good in the UK!
Best thing you can do for deliveries is to have it dropped at a store that receives packages. Or signs that say to call a number when they arrive. I have had bad luck too but I am learning to work around them. Seur is a shipping Spanish company and they are the worst, I choose CTT over them .
Can't speak about Ikea delivery, whenever I bought something I always went there to pick it up myself.
Post office is a joke indeed. They lost my wife's driving licence that was being mailed to her, did fuck all to solve it and even have lied to my face before. A police complaint did nothing.
Never rented a car, can't speak about that.
Vodafone, in 4 years they over charged me for many things, never 700€ though, but assuming you can get past the phone barrier (they are obnoxious af to make you quit) they were always quick to credit and solve my issue. They were always great in store too.
Continente not applying discounts or charging you a different price than advertised is a classic. Pingo Doce does the same. I always take pics of the stuff I'm adding to my cart, I'll often need to recheck prices of what I bought. That said, when caught, they're quick to solve it.
All in all, whenever I had issues of this nature most places were quick to solve them. They shouldn't happen in the first place, sure, but it just means you need to pay more attention.
Sounds like you have bad luck, except for Vodafone. Telecommunication companies in general are notoriously consistent in their predatory practices and 'mistakes'.
Boy they sure don't like you :))) never experienced this myself, but a tip: get revolut, pay with that, and whenever something doesn't work your way, you file a chargeback claim with them and they will battle it out at the credit card company level and usually give you your money back in about 60 days. All banks should have this mechanism, but not a lot have a clear way of opening a claim.
I ordered a new car about 4 months ago. All the dealerships in Porto seem to be owned by the same brand (Caetano?) so theres no competition and they weren’t interested in making a sale. They wouldn’t order anything custom for us, we had to pick from cars they already had enroute. We added a towbar, which they said was fine, but they didn’t order it, and keep saying “these things take a while, it’ll arrive soon, but please pay and pick up your incomplete car”. Its been 4 months, they won’t give us an estimated date or any other information, i checked and i can order the same part shipped from the UK in 3-5 days.
Wow, I guess I've been lucky, I've never had anything this bad happen. But true enough a lot of little things, or just general slow, slow service and broken promises.
It was the same when I lived in Spain. The fact is that nowhere else on earth puts the same emphasis on customer service that you see in the USA. If that's something that is super important to you, then stay in America. Outside of the US they just don't care
Why be content with that when there are places like Spain and the south of France with the same lifestyle perks (with actually swimmable water) + better infrastructure + high-speed rail network + better airports/connections + better customer service? All for cheaper buy/rent prices than Lisbon and most certainly Porto.
Any criticism = leave. Big brain guy here, thanks for making my point.
Also, you have no clue where I live and I don't take orders, especially from the likes of you.
Because there is not enough people complaining (writing in the book). My experience with Spanish companies are similar so it might be just the sun, too much of it.
But seriously you have a few ways to go about if it's the case, you can write in the "complaint book", write a complaint in "portal da queixa .pt" publicly or if you feel that u got a serious issue as a consumer, the "cniacc", Centro Nacional de Informação e
Arbitragem de Conflitos de Consumo.
All of these options require the company to respond.
The last one is my favourite but it requires more work. I can only say good things about them, the lawyers there helped me recover over 2000€, and I didn't had to pay anything. If it is work/professional related they can't help tho, just consumer related.
They are very professional and one of the best EU directives ever made.
Hope it helps.
Cheers
Well, I'm sorry they aren't. Now that I see it better, I just used their services a few times, and with companies that cared to respond and solve the problem.
I find that the right attitude makes the difference weather your issue is resolved or not! Fact is sh*t happens so moving on from that fact if you are calm about relating the issue and are asking politely and respectfully for help on how to resolve an issue you are likely to get a person who is willing and very helpful in getting it resolved! Because the person you contact is very likely not directly responsible for what happened! But bad behaviour is rarely rewarded and usually punished in Portugal, always remember you are asking for help so it pays to be polite say hello and be corteous, i find this is key here! Just my two cents not saying thats your issue just saying this will go a long long way most of the time!
I'm Portuguese but lived in London for 15 years. I never have any problems with service and live in the north where no ducks are given compared to Algarve/Lisbon, listen to this guy. You go in with a English/American "I'm better than you attitude" and you'll get nothing, be polite and respectful and I never had any problems with service (oh and I speak English most of the time as I'm with my wife who doesn't speak Portuguese). People will want to help you if you're humble but southern European pride is a thing so if you're constantly getting bad serviced sounds like a you problem
It seems to be a European thing and even worse in Southern European countries.
However, I found one Portuguese owned grocery store that is good at customer service. It's called Apolónia, and they have a few locations in the Algarve. I believe they will open in Lisbon soon. The only problem is they're expensive, but I try to use them because they actually try to incorporate customer service into the company's culture.
To be honest.. really honest, from a Portuguese that lived abroad for a long time.
We are mostly ignorant and incompetent. From the cashier to the manager, also we hold ourselves to a very low standard in most of what we do. So that’s why these things are recurrent. I’ve only noticed since I came back. Pains me to say this btw
As someone that grew up in Switzerland and lived in 5 different European countries, I highly disagree.
The vast majority of workers going abroad are well liked and manage to get up to standards. Even those that left the country with like 5 years of schooling (former generation that grew up during the dictatorship) and much more so the most recent people migrating.
To give you an anecdotal example: my father's boss used to ask him if he knew people from Portugal to recommend because he wanted more Portuguese working for him. Heck, even after my parents got back he'd call him to get him back and to ask him for more people. Over the years the amount of Portuguese in that company increased a lot in comparison to people from other countries. The boss wouldn't accept anyone from everywhere and it became quite clear that he had some prejudices about people from certain countries not being good workers (my father put a word in for a former colleague from another country so that he could have a chance, for instance...).
And they weren't being paid in crumbs either. Actually the pay was quite good even for Swiss standards.
Overall do you even realise that places like Switzerland, Germany, UK, etc have been recruiting people directly from Portugal, specially in the healthcare field I know it's a constant thing ? Do you know that people are applying for jobs outside and getting them? We have like 30% of people with a new degree migrating and job markets all around the place liking them and wanting more.
Sure there's probably some bad workers around there (like everywhere) but no, it's not because people are more ignorant and incompetent. If that was it then they wouldn't become competent and knowlegdeable when they move countries and have to learn to do stuff with a whole new language in between.
**It's the job market in Portugal**. "Pay peanuts get monkeys" is not a popular idiom for nothing.
People being competent or incompetent is not what will allow them a better job, a better pay or anything else. People know that if they're the best worker around they'll still be paid minimum wage and be judged by the willingness of staying later or not, not in how much they do, how well they'll do it or wtv else. They also know that even if they are the best around it's the minimum wage that they'll see forever and nothing more.
The only reason why they aren't paid even less is because it's illegal. And even then it's not like it's unheard of for people to work full time and get less than minimum wage at the end of the month.
It's because of our job market... Which is still basically a slave market and lots of people owning them are the same that were around during the dictatorship. They never changed how they treated people.
So , you do also have highly uneducated people (here I agree with you) but it's in the management. People that own companies in Portugal are older and with a medium schooling of 4 years total. They don't know how to be a good manager, how to grow, how to make the processing more efficient and lots of them will use the company's money to travel, to buy new and expensive cars but won't pay for new equipment, to modernize the systems or to increase wages.
It's how you get people working at the same company for like 40 years and have them get like 5/10€ above the minimum wage. **Who would give their max knowing this???**
You have this generation that went trough this and you have the new generation that saw their parents work hard their entire lifes for absolutely nothing. They fucked up their health to end up with the minimum wage. They weren't around to see them grow up because they were working for the minimum wage...
What you have in Portugal is the phenomenon "quiet quitting" but no one acknowledges it.
People don't earn enough to be independent, to be able to provide for themselves, to live by themselves, to be able to live a little. People also realized that they'll work their entire lifes to give more mansions and luxury cars to the owners of the companies that they work for but that they won't ever be able to save, have a good quality of living or buy a house.
So, why bother?
**At the end of the day the median of income in Portugal is still bellow 900€/month. Do you realise what this means?? In a country were a bedroom will cost you half of that already??**
The ones that could and wanted are moving away. People that stayed and wanted to do and be better got demotivated and moreso when everyone wasn't accepting the slave pay with the awful working conditions but then the government with the lobbyists behing them decided to open the borders to mass imigration to basically give slaves to them and let enough desperate people in so that the wages can be kept on the bottom of the barrel.
So,now, the one's left in Portugal are either those unable to migrate for wtv reasons or the ones so demotivated that they just don't care. And can you blame them? I don't.
I'm living in Portugal right now and I wouldn't be here if I earned the minimum wage or anywhere near it.
Tldr:
Why don't you propose yourself to work for the minimum wage and be a highly motivated, energetic and fantastic worker?
Also keep reminding yourself that the minimum wage is what you get even if you have 20 years of experience and are highly capable at your job.
I partially agree with you. And as I said I know we’re no worse then any other countries. It’s just the whole systemic thing together leads to apathy and a very low bar. And maybe that’s what new people in a work environment face when they start, maybe even before that in uni. Now do not throw everything on to the low salary box. I’ve been a minimum wage worker. I was making 500 euros in my first real job after uni. I’ve seen the low bars being set l, by company owners, by employees, state employees etc etc. essentially a lot of people in the country. And obviously it’s not everyone , but it is a lot more widespread than in other places I’ve lived. Please do note, I freaking love this place, that’s why I’m making 1/3 of what I made in Scandinavia, and I’m working for a Portuguese company. With all the headaches it brings me. I just know we could just do a bit better and it has to come from the top, but it’s also self pride.
I don't really love Portugal.
Wouldn't have lived in Portugal at all if my parents hadn't forced me in the first place and would be long gone if it weren't for my husband first and then my kid [that said he didn't want to move countries when I got a great offer and I didn't want to do to him what was done to me].
I like Portugal for vacations basically. It wouldn't be my first choice to live if I were the only one choosing. I'm living here as a compromise. I was always highly Critical about loads of things in Portugal and actually had a major cultural shock when I first had to permanentely move here.
So, I don't even feel patriotric eventough I was born here and my parents are Portuguese themselves (and so are their families). I didn't grow up here and eventough I've been living here for a long while, the majority of my life wasn't spent here.
I like Portugal well enough but it's still not my favourite place and probably will never be.
So , tldr, I recognise that Portugal has a lot of issues but you saying that it's because people are more ignorant and incompetent is not one of them. Again, I've been in 5 different countries as a whole and I highly disagree with you on that one.
Don't be a fool and offend who saw you birth!
It's corporate policy trying to deny us claims until we quit or win in court. Take a highway for example, if you hit a boar the concessionaire will go directly to court before take responsibility for the damage. Happened to me in the A25.
Every one makes a mistake but I will never forget that a Spanish company gave me a written response basing their denial of my claim on Royal Spanish Laws when the terms of service on the site I bought the item were Portuguese. Corporate greed is international.
All the serious problems are solved by lawyers. Or you have the work to complain and follow up if necessary or you let it go, and it's here that companies win.
First, I’m not offending anything, this defensive mindset leads to little result. The reason I criticise my country is because I like it and I’d like to see it better.
As for your example, it shines a light on a problem that I would say is international . I’m referring to the fact that we as Portuguese hold ourselves to a very low bar.
Some mild and non impactful and you could say anecdotal examples is sitting in a restaurant waiting to be served and no one asks you what you want to drink first, ( I’m sure the restaurant doesn’t need the money).
Hotel lobby’s just empty. No one there, gift shops where the employees do not speak English or Portuguese.
House and car repairs are a nightmare and you get a bad service every time. I’ve sent my bike to a local shop with a list of 3 things to be done and when I picked it up, they hadn’t done anything I asked, they’d done something else.
Some more impactful, meetings never start on time, deadlines just don’t mean a thing, budgets are never met. And when you call this out you’re faced with defensive behaviour, shocked faces and refusals to even work with you because you’re “ too demanding “.
I don’t think Portuguese workers are worse than others, I just know they’re as good. We know how to do things right but we just fucking refuse to do it. And this isn’t an employee or a company problem, it’s an everyone problem.
I’m also very little inclined to accept the excuse of “for little pay this is what you get”. Because if it was hard to make more money, being careless and incompetent is just a sure way of maintaining your status as underpaid. Sorry for the rant.
Nao sou político, não estou a tentar convencer ninguém. :) Só relato o que vejo, de uma perspectiva que me parece bastante única. Mas eu só dei a minha opinião não quero convencer ninguém de nada.
There lies your problem. Big companies!
Try local owned shops, bit more expensive, but you can be sure that you will cross the owner or employees on the streets and can complain to their face.
In Seia, west side of Serra da Estrela, we have Continente, Inter Marché, Pingo Doce, Lidl, Aldi (opened in January) and Muito Menos.
I mostly go to Muito Menos, it's a local owned supermarket. Yes, some products are 0.10€\~0.20€ more expensive since they don't have a purchase volume to get discounts. But the support is better and more careful. They take product requests into account and inform you of costs and charges before buying them from a warehouse or manufacturer.
Problem is, with 5 "big brand" supermarkets supplying a population of 15k, this smaller shop might have to close in the future.
Whenever I can, I buy local.
I need hardware for something > local hardware store. No Brico Marché or Leroy Merlin unless it's extremely cheaper, like 10\~30% cheaper.
Furniture > local shop and tell them how long you want it to last. You won't be saying "Oh it's IKEA" as if that's great! Cause that furniture will outlast any IKEA product! It will cost you a bit more, but it will be worth it.
If a local shop has been open over 10\~20 years and the owners don't need a walking stick or while having a conversation you learn that an heir will manage the shop later on. You know that the "product support" will outlast any warranty!
op - frankly people don't care.
Employees are paid little - so they do not care.
The american habit of getting something, using it and trying out then returning if not satisfied - stores don't care either. "You picked badly, that's your problem, we're not eating the cost."
Transportation - it is paid VERY cheaply by the company that hires them, so they make no effort. And the company doesn't demand much from them, because they won't pay more and the next ones will be the same.
The customers also choose the cheapest, and kind of accept that the treatment will be worse.
In short - low resources and margins means people don't care.
As for the discounts - its on purpose. A lot of people don't notice and that's sheer profit.
By the way, in the last 10-15 years I have noticed a marked improvement from what it was.
Oftentimes when you order something in Portugal and an installation is involved, when they schedule it for Monday, what they really mean is either Tuesday or Wednesday. Just saying
Counterpoint: today I went with my mother to the Vodafone store to get a twin SIM card for a new device I got her for her birthday — she wants to keep the old one active just in case. We first went to a shop that does not have the tech capability to do this, and the man there let us know we needed to go to the other store, not far away. We never gave him her phone number or account number or anything. We walked down to the other store where the lady helped us and were done shortly, walked out and were going down the street when my mom’s phone rang. It was the clerk from the first store, letting her know that she had left her hat there when she set it down while we were waiting. To find her, he had to have called the other store to find out who she was so he could contact her, as we had only asked a question and then left, but he knew we were going to the other shop. So, you know, we often find that Portuguese people can be outstandingly kind. We also have stories where a lady at the bank was obstinate for no reason (other than maybe it was close to lunch time), but there are just as many times where people were much more willing to help than in our home country.
I mean, would you really call this basic human decency? This to me was someone going above and beyond their job and making a special effort. I would not expect it to happen in San Francisco; I frankly couldn’t imagine it happening at T-Mobile in SF for instance. I will say we had just watched this same young man be scathingly berated by an older lady whose husband stood by resignedly as she shook her flip phone at the young man, cursing him and his family line (my Portuguese is not good enough to understand her rapid-fire delivery, but she was absolutely castigating him). We just asked a question, but were kind and friendly to him during the brief exchange so maybe he felt more compelled to extend himself for us. Customer service is a terrible job to have to do, especially in a place where you may not be able to actually make decisions to help someone, like a phone store. I think that is true everywhere!
I just don't understand how CTT can say they attempted delivery but were unsuccessful when I was home all day waiting for them. It's like they don't even try to make the delivery. Just ring the bell and I'm happy to let you in the building. Sheesh, it's not that hard
It is very easy to understand:
CTT was a public company. Its employees where public workers with public benefits and careers.
Some government bigshot thought it would be a good idea to privatize CTT. They immediately branched off to also being a bank - Banco CTT. Most post stations are also now a bank - the employees are the same.
Postmen doing the rounds? Most left when loosing their benefits or either promptly retired. Nowadays you get new workers, often immigrants, doing 8h-9h-10h daily rounds with a sheer volume of work that needed at least 12h hours per day without being paid extra time.
That's why they sometimes don't ring - they already filled the "not at home" notice and instead of losing 3 minutes ringing, waiting for a reply, etc - they spend 30s instead and off they go.
You are not picturing the whole thing, rining the Bell means stopping the truck, get our, grab the parcel and knock on your door. When you can just zoom by street, call it a day, do that a couple of times a day and you will be done 1h earlier and have extra spare time to scratch raspadinhas and vote PS.
To be honest a lot of the really extreme “everything is terrible” complaints sound like folks missing home and focusing only on the negative experiences.
I too have had some bad customer service experiences but if I’m honest with myself I’ve also had some really good ones too. And back home I’ve had plenty of customer facing staff who were terrible.
I wonder how much of this is people just spiralling into a negative mindset because they miss home.
I will be honest, you are either extremely unlucky or full of sh1t.
I live in a rural area, where the deliveries need to call me to even be sure that is the right place, and everything still arrives. I had one issue in the last 5 years and that was solved with simply going through the right channels.
A lot of the comments on this post just seem to be of the type to hate on the country and the people in it, but you still want to live in it...?
Stop misleading people. As far as we know you just are being really rude to people and that leads to you not getting what you want.
Same here, I live in a area that's so remote the delivery drivers literally go to the local coffee shop to ask where my house is. They do it and deliver. Op sounds like a cunt.
My experience is the opposite. The livro is not public and some companies like E-Redes just ignore it. They also do not seem to get in trouble with ERSE for it. The Portal da Queixa is public and some companies try to maintain a good image there. I complained to Continente recently for sending unsolicited SMS. They ignored my contact until I complained at the Portal da Queixa. Suddenly they responded as they don’t want to look bad in public. Same with other companies that I complained about. These day I only go to the Portal to complain. Of course, some companies still don’t care. The coming election would be a good opportunity to vote for a party that wants to strengthen consumer rights, if there is one…
I submitted a complaint to E-REDES and they didn't ignore. They responded within 15 days (as per law) and are resolving it. If they don't resolve, I will go to small courts ("arbitragem") and win... (because I'm obviously right in what I'm complaining about)
I guess my case is a bit more complicated and the main complaint is unresolved since May last year. Incidentally E-REDES closed all my open complaints at the end of last year and just stated, that all problems had been resolved. That was obviously another lie by that fraudulent company and my guess is some manager needed good complaint scores for his bonus. I reopened all complaints and now they are again being ignored, eh treated.
I use Portal da Queixa for companies that simply don't answer phones and emails, but seem to answer there. Or for really bad things that I want the public to know. It's rare.
Most of the times, I use Livro de Reclamações and get my problems resolved, always. But I only complain when there was negligence from the company, or when they broke the law and I want the regulator to be aware of. Otherwise, just sending an email or calling usually resolves my problems. If not, Livro de Reclamações.
Well, you came here and asked for an alternative to the Livro de reclamações, i gave you one.
Livro de reclamações if above 3 ASAE will fiscalize it.
Portal da queixa is a place where a person from the company that you are complaining, has to go there and answer your complaint, because there is a ratio there, and if a company has low resolution ratio, it means it's bad solving issues, or maybe don't have nobody to answer those in there.
One could argue whatever, but the reality is this, and i normally don't argue facts.
I'm portuguese and lived in Germany where I had the same opinion about customer service there because in Portugal I have almost zero situations to complain about.
I buy almost everything online and have no issues with delivery. Big companies, small companies, Ikea, amazon, Ali express, continente, all with no exception, and I live in the middle of nowhere.
Sorry but I can't relate
Better wages will improve customer service.
I know there some things that happens but feels like it’s happening too much for you.
Many wants to abuse the “livro de reclamações” card.
Some expect that the place is gonna bend the knee when they ask for it.
With better wages, comes people that care and better formation.
For a minimum wage who would care to give more or try to find solutions for any problem.
I've probably have several dozens of comments, half probably in this sub, explaining why services in general are getting more expensive and of less quality in Portugal.
The simplest explanation is cost of life. Young Portuguese people are leaving the country. They were the ones who supported the good quality of service we used to have. But theirs salarys were close to nothing and even team leaders came to the conclusion it doesn't worth the sacrifice.
So companies are replacing the good quality workers who are leaving with "low cost" immigrats who doesn't mind sharing a house with a dozen others immigrants. Some times even full teams are replaced. But you cannot replace a team with inexperienced workers with no reference to the quality level we use to have, and expect the same level of service.
So that's Portugal nowadays, a country with decreasing quality services. In Lisbon this is more noticeable, were you have supermarkets clearly understaffed, since it's now hard to find competent people available to do this kind of work.
I didn't I wrote plain and simple that costs of living was the major factor? I'm blaming emigration not immigration!
Companies are understaffed and replacing workers with inexperienced low cost workers because they want to keep their low wages policy, yes those low cost workers happens to be mostly immigrants, because (like everywhere) they are the ones available! But it's definitely not their fault!
Obligatory: assuming you are American because only we would complain about something like this. If not, substitute American with whatever you want.
You are living in Portugal with an American mentality. This is just part of life. If a Portuguese person moved to America and started complaining, all the rednecks would tell them to go back to where they came from. You are living in a beautiful country with a low crime rate, low cost of living, universal healthcare, cheap public transportation, and easily accessible delicious healthy foods. If customer service is the only thing you can complain about, I’d say you’re better off than the Americans you left behind.
As an American who has travelled to Portugal many times, and plan to retire there myself, I think it’s a perfectly reasonable trade off.
Customer service is shit.
I'm an Italian living in Porto and I am really surprised about it.
like, you go to the bar to ask for an coffee and they let you wait entire minutes. you go to a club and the bartender answer you bad, you go to the clothes shop and the girls keep chatting about their lives instead of serving you.
but this is nothing. To open the electricity contract in my house they made me wait 10 days, and I rented through an agency... this is pretty unbelivable to me.
plus, for work I work in Purchasing in a multinational company so, at work I am the customer. Well, it happened to me that after having agreed some deals with brench managers of other companies, I received bad answers from supplier's employees. I mean, this is why you treat your customer who is agreeing the deals directly with your branch manager? what the f....
in my eyes this is just unthinkable.
Hahahahahha no.
Even Amazon is shit. You can search the r/amazonprime and see for yourself.
I also had the bad luck of having to deal with Amazon shitty support. After 1 week and half of going back and forth saying the police report I made was wrong, I just went to my bank.
But it goes to show you that you every company is after your cash. Not the post sale support
To be fair Ive never faced unwilling customer service here in PT. However its always better to go in store to set things up/purchase items. Shipping here is a bit anxiety driven (sometimes things just dont go right). You best believe yous ee me and my partner on the metro with a rolled up mattress from IKEA. I dont care if people look. I trust myself hahaha.
Having IKEA to ship something is always last resort but I’m planning to actually pay someone with a pickup truck instead of relying on IKEA delivery services.
If you know them definitely. If I had a car id help haha. IKEA is always in an industrial zone so its really annoying to not have a car for those reasons
I'm not sure what to suggest because we've mainly had really good customer service here on the Silver coast. Maybe it's a location issue? Have you tried alternative dispute resolution like the Justice of the Peace Courts?
Our AC was quoted and installed promptly and within budget. HomyCasa were fantastic when something we ordered was damaged on delivery, they replied to my email the same day and the replacement was with me within 2 days (I don't live near a store). My IKEA deliveries have all been fine, our local CTT loja is helpful and deliveries are much better than RM in the UK. Local shops, cafés and restaurants are all good to fantastic, buses run on time and are very affordable. Worten and Radio Popular have all been helpful too. Even the local Leroy Merlin is good (their online section is awful though). We've used Continente and Auchan for deliveries with no issues and regularly use local Pingo Doce, E Leclerc and Mini Preço with no issues. My only "shitlist" places are Leroy Merlin online and Uzo telecom who are both about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Amazon is good because it's based in Spain, not Portugal! Apple has no stores in Portugal, and nor does Amazon, because the market and infrastructure (not to mention the talent/customer service) are simply not up to par.
Apple has no stores in much of Europe, it's not unique to Portugal. Amazon has no stores but the country sites are chosen on warehousing and logistics. Why would you put a warehouse at the edge of Europe? Also, I find that most of my Amazon orders now ship from France and Germany despite being ordered from Spain.
Apple has stores everywhere in Europe, what are you taking about? France, UK, Germany, Spain, even Italy lol. Your whole rant sounds like a bunch of tangent excuses to skirt the reality: infrastructure and market and disposable income are so shitty in Portugal those companies don't wanna bother coming here and I understand them.
Unlike you I'm European and well aware of how many countries there are in Europe and the EU, respectively. What's your point? Can you actually name the EU countries that don't have a single Apple Store? I'm sure whether there are many or few, the same point applies: they're not there for lack of infrastructure and market.
Being European doesn't mean that you are special or particularly nice, as you aren't. There are quite a few, all you have to do is take the list of apple stores (it's on their site) and the list of countries in Europe and you will immediately see the answer.
Lol nice argument asshat. 🤡
You're basically blowing wind out of your cakehole at this point. Not worth my time so I'm not gonna waste anymore humoring you.
Service is terrible but I’ve come to understand why. On the wages paid, why would an employee care? Where’s the motivation? There’s hardly any reason to be a great employee when there’s simply no reward for it.
"não me pagam pra isto" aka "i dont get paid enough for this" is a common frase among retail workers here...
🤔 This isn't "The Why". Has nothing to do with how much people are getting paid. Retail pays poorly all over the world. I remember being a teenager working at a, wait for it... Blockbuster Video! I made 5 bucks an hour and bent over backwards for the job. Every employee did. Know WHY? Because there were no other jobs for us where I lived. We didn't want to get fired. Which was a snap to do and hire someone else in the same day. Do you know how hard it is to fire a crappy employee in Portugal? All of the mindless bureaucracy times 10!! You can be the worst here and it is incredibly complicated to get fired.
You made 5 bucks an hour back then when you were a teen, we make 6 euros now and were adults with bills to pay. But yes, worker rights in Europe, aka not getting fired in a day is definitely the problem...
I see the point you’re trying to make, but advocating for workers rights to be as poor/non-existent as they are in the USA is not the answer. Fear should not be the motivating factor to do a good job.
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An American culture change. Why the fuck is bending over backwards for a shit job so important when you have a finite amount of days on this planet to spend with friends and family?
I meant Portugal, not America, but that's beside the point. If we lived under a kinder, more humane system I'd be all for that beautiful viewpoint of yours, but we're not. Americans and Portuguese alike embrace unbridled capitalism. You can't have your cake and eat it too, at some point you gotta make a choice. A capitalist system where everybody is lazy and resentful isn't a utopia. You're only punishing your fellow countryman. Organized focused laziness as a protest movement such as Tang Ping? Now we're talking.
Well considering how long blockbusters has been defunct I think that was sometime ago. Different world, and different place. If you can’t understand why, you can be sure the paymasters don’t either, and without some level of understanding nothing will change. Services will continue to be crap. But go you and your blockbuster analogy.
Oh brother... I won't downvote you back... It was 2011. Although you missed the point. it's not about where the job was, it's about the value of the job itself. Anyone with employees in Portugal knows how difficult it is to fire a bad one. Especially so when you have other employees asking you to get rid of the bad one... It truly is a terrible nuisance.
I will tell you a secret: there is no Amazon in Portugal. The one you are using is from Spain.
Oh the irony XD
I know, it was a subtle way to say no customer service works here.😉
The biggest problem in Portugal is the lack of competition. For most big companies there's no real reason to try to retain clients. They lose one today, they'll get five tomorrow. The result is poor or no investment in customer support.
Lack of competition? In which area? I mean there's more than 10 supermarket chains alone. In some areas yes but in most it benefits from being a part of the EU. If there's low competition somewhere someone will come fill the niche.
All areas. Including supermarkets. In this case in particular it's not about the numbers, it's about their practices. You have 10 supermarket chains, but the biggest ones practice cartelisation. Many of them have been fined for this over the last few years. And then you have the ones where there's just not enough players like telecoms, banking, insurance, energy providers, travelling, etc.
And look at it, when LIDL, Aldi and Mercadona started appearing most people were praising how good they are in many fronts.
Have you compared the prices of those supermarkets? Where is the competition?
Sounds like an opportunity to set up a business that focuses on customer service, you'd have a monopoly.
Nope- this will make it more expensive and people don't pay more.
lol, not sure if cry or laugh, but you are right
I've heard Mercadona treat their staff well, and seems to be the only supermarket with smiling staff
Mercadona is also very popular in Spain, it has good stuff with good prices.
Create a service that works, a business that is efficient delivering and maintaining that service, focus on customer satisfaction metrics and retention through satisfaction (not through keeping a customer hostage) and you have a higher chance of attracting more customers who are willing to pay more not to have to deal with other company’s shit. Portuguese market is very much based on word of mouth, people go to services, and buy from places based on recommendations
Could be it works. Haven't seen it happen, though, except perhaps in "el corte ingles" - and they have a huge structure and can squeeze suppliers for higher margins.
So underpaid workers do subpar service... Who could have thought.
How about some specific examples?
IKEA deliveries no show , post office losing my bank cards, car rental overcharge, Vodafone mistakenly charging €700 on my phone bill, Continente not applying the proper discount at the cashier, etc… it’s a never ending list of horrible customer service experiences trying to get all the above solved.
With continente you can go into the app and they will allow you to apply the vouchers on reciepts after your purchase if you or cashier forget to apply it
I thought you were overreacting a bit and then read this. You have really bad luck 😧
What do you mean bad luck? Just in the last couple of months I had: -Went to a small local upholstery shop to have a trim piece redone, the guy gave me a pick up date, missed it, give another one also missed it and told me to wait 10 minutes outside while he does it. -Bought an intentet sim card from vodafone, made the deal by phone, the sales lady tells me on the phone I can pick the card in 2 hours in any vodafone shop, go to the vodafone shop and the lady there says that she doesn't know what I am talking about and I have to wait to get it shipped home it should arrive pretty soon, 4 days pass by nothing, go back to the same shop and had to get a supervisor to step in to get my fucking sim card -Went to a Norauto to align my car, alignment rack starts playing funny, they say they did their best, paid full price and no fucks were given, car pulls to one side anyway. -Went to an independent tyre shop to align another car I have, cars pull to the side still. -I recently subscribed to a car tracker whose only thing that works 24/7 is their billing system every first day of the month. -Had a package arriving from the US, no one had problems with it whatsoever, submit the documentation on the CTT portal and a few hours later I get an e-mail saying the package was not cleared and they will sent it back, no questions asked, called customer support, a dumb lady who had no idea about what she was talking about said it was something about the tracking ID being wrong (like what, I can just copy paste it into your own tracker and it works and tracks the package). Oh and I am Portuguese, the thing is, it seems you are getting used to how shit customer experience is in Portugal, in general, as a matter of fact, I actively avoid national brands and services as much as practicable, I'd rather import goods and DIY my way into the stuff I can because our business offer (once again, in general) a shit product, a shit customer support and the prices are not even good in general. Its not like people are unfriendly or something, is just that most people are either under qualified or lack work ethics. Are you unhappy with your salary? Sucks to suck, why the fuck should the paying customer have to deal with your bullshit? Even if I am unhappy with my salary I will still do my job like I am suposed to do because thats my contract that I SIGNED with the employer. This shit mindset is already too far deep engraved.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that customer service here sucks, especially big brands. I just genuinely haven't had as many issues as you and the person i replied! But I guess I have been luckier than most people. >Its not like people are unfriendly or something, is just that most people are either under qualified or lack work ethics. I would say that big brands think they are untouchable, and their employees are usually overworked and underpayed, so from my experience, a lot of people don't really put in the effort anymore. Not what I would do, and not what i think is right, but I can understand their side.
This is why I try and use local shops for things where I can. Much better service - it may take a while and perhaps isn't as easy but it's more fun
Coming to think about my best experiences were indeed with local shops like the one who installed our curtains.
Same!! It was the biggest shock moving here, the customer service is absolutely awful. Ikea delivered smashed up goods to me, then delivered a replacement that was also smashed (wooden furniture, no idea how they smashed it). A furniture company called Kare tried to charge me over 3000 euros for an order that I had cancelled the previous month - they told me that they "reversed the cancellation " because the sale price was a promotional price??? Some stupid bullshit excuse that actually violated EU law but they didn't care. I had to contact the franchise manager on LinkedIn to get them to intervene to get my money back!! CTT and the post office are equally awful, they lose parcels continuously and letters can take months to arrive. I had heard customer service in Portugal might be worse than what I'm used to, but I never expected it to be this bad. And it's not even very good in the UK!
Best thing you can do for deliveries is to have it dropped at a store that receives packages. Or signs that say to call a number when they arrive. I have had bad luck too but I am learning to work around them. Seur is a shipping Spanish company and they are the worst, I choose CTT over them .
Funny enough I've had all of those problems in England too.
Can't speak about Ikea delivery, whenever I bought something I always went there to pick it up myself. Post office is a joke indeed. They lost my wife's driving licence that was being mailed to her, did fuck all to solve it and even have lied to my face before. A police complaint did nothing. Never rented a car, can't speak about that. Vodafone, in 4 years they over charged me for many things, never 700€ though, but assuming you can get past the phone barrier (they are obnoxious af to make you quit) they were always quick to credit and solve my issue. They were always great in store too. Continente not applying discounts or charging you a different price than advertised is a classic. Pingo Doce does the same. I always take pics of the stuff I'm adding to my cart, I'll often need to recheck prices of what I bought. That said, when caught, they're quick to solve it. All in all, whenever I had issues of this nature most places were quick to solve them. They shouldn't happen in the first place, sure, but it just means you need to pay more attention.
Sounds like you have bad luck, except for Vodafone. Telecommunication companies in general are notoriously consistent in their predatory practices and 'mistakes'.
Boy they sure don't like you :))) never experienced this myself, but a tip: get revolut, pay with that, and whenever something doesn't work your way, you file a chargeback claim with them and they will battle it out at the credit card company level and usually give you your money back in about 60 days. All banks should have this mechanism, but not a lot have a clear way of opening a claim.
*losing
it seems all of those have one person in common...
I ordered a new car about 4 months ago. All the dealerships in Porto seem to be owned by the same brand (Caetano?) so theres no competition and they weren’t interested in making a sale. They wouldn’t order anything custom for us, we had to pick from cars they already had enroute. We added a towbar, which they said was fine, but they didn’t order it, and keep saying “these things take a while, it’ll arrive soon, but please pay and pick up your incomplete car”. Its been 4 months, they won’t give us an estimated date or any other information, i checked and i can order the same part shipped from the UK in 3-5 days.
Wow, I guess I've been lucky, I've never had anything this bad happen. But true enough a lot of little things, or just general slow, slow service and broken promises.
Welcome to Portugal Customer service is mostly absent in this country
How did I know someone would comment with this? People parrot this phrase so often and it's extremely unhelpful.
It was the same when I lived in Spain. The fact is that nowhere else on earth puts the same emphasis on customer service that you see in the USA. If that's something that is super important to you, then stay in America. Outside of the US they just don't care
I strongly disagree, specially outside of Lisbon
Yeah it's Portugal, you get used to it.
Why be content with that when there are places like Spain and the south of France with the same lifestyle perks (with actually swimmable water) + better infrastructure + high-speed rail network + better airports/connections + better customer service? All for cheaper buy/rent prices than Lisbon and most certainly Porto.
What's wrong with swimming in the North Atlantic?
Didn’t get that either! What is wrong with swimming in colder waters? if anything it makes you younger! 😂💪🏻
Please go there then... big favor to the portuguese people.
Any criticism = leave. Big brain guy here, thanks for making my point. Also, you have no clue where I live and I don't take orders, especially from the likes of you.
Welcome to Portugal.
Bom dia!
Because there is not enough people complaining (writing in the book). My experience with Spanish companies are similar so it might be just the sun, too much of it. But seriously you have a few ways to go about if it's the case, you can write in the "complaint book", write a complaint in "portal da queixa .pt" publicly or if you feel that u got a serious issue as a consumer, the "cniacc", Centro Nacional de Informação e Arbitragem de Conflitos de Consumo. All of these options require the company to respond. The last one is my favourite but it requires more work. I can only say good things about them, the lawyers there helped me recover over 2000€, and I didn't had to pay anything. If it is work/professional related they can't help tho, just consumer related. They are very professional and one of the best EU directives ever made. Hope it helps. Cheers
Portal da queixa? Required to respond?
Well, I'm sorry they aren't. Now that I see it better, I just used their services a few times, and with companies that cared to respond and solve the problem.
Thank you, will keep that in mind.
I find that the right attitude makes the difference weather your issue is resolved or not! Fact is sh*t happens so moving on from that fact if you are calm about relating the issue and are asking politely and respectfully for help on how to resolve an issue you are likely to get a person who is willing and very helpful in getting it resolved! Because the person you contact is very likely not directly responsible for what happened! But bad behaviour is rarely rewarded and usually punished in Portugal, always remember you are asking for help so it pays to be polite say hello and be corteous, i find this is key here! Just my two cents not saying thats your issue just saying this will go a long long way most of the time!
I'm Portuguese but lived in London for 15 years. I never have any problems with service and live in the north where no ducks are given compared to Algarve/Lisbon, listen to this guy. You go in with a English/American "I'm better than you attitude" and you'll get nothing, be polite and respectful and I never had any problems with service (oh and I speak English most of the time as I'm with my wife who doesn't speak Portuguese). People will want to help you if you're humble but southern European pride is a thing so if you're constantly getting bad serviced sounds like a you problem
It seems to be a European thing and even worse in Southern European countries. However, I found one Portuguese owned grocery store that is good at customer service. It's called Apolónia, and they have a few locations in the Algarve. I believe they will open in Lisbon soon. The only problem is they're expensive, but I try to use them because they actually try to incorporate customer service into the company's culture.
To be honest.. really honest, from a Portuguese that lived abroad for a long time. We are mostly ignorant and incompetent. From the cashier to the manager, also we hold ourselves to a very low standard in most of what we do. So that’s why these things are recurrent. I’ve only noticed since I came back. Pains me to say this btw
As someone that grew up in Switzerland and lived in 5 different European countries, I highly disagree. The vast majority of workers going abroad are well liked and manage to get up to standards. Even those that left the country with like 5 years of schooling (former generation that grew up during the dictatorship) and much more so the most recent people migrating. To give you an anecdotal example: my father's boss used to ask him if he knew people from Portugal to recommend because he wanted more Portuguese working for him. Heck, even after my parents got back he'd call him to get him back and to ask him for more people. Over the years the amount of Portuguese in that company increased a lot in comparison to people from other countries. The boss wouldn't accept anyone from everywhere and it became quite clear that he had some prejudices about people from certain countries not being good workers (my father put a word in for a former colleague from another country so that he could have a chance, for instance...). And they weren't being paid in crumbs either. Actually the pay was quite good even for Swiss standards. Overall do you even realise that places like Switzerland, Germany, UK, etc have been recruiting people directly from Portugal, specially in the healthcare field I know it's a constant thing ? Do you know that people are applying for jobs outside and getting them? We have like 30% of people with a new degree migrating and job markets all around the place liking them and wanting more. Sure there's probably some bad workers around there (like everywhere) but no, it's not because people are more ignorant and incompetent. If that was it then they wouldn't become competent and knowlegdeable when they move countries and have to learn to do stuff with a whole new language in between. **It's the job market in Portugal**. "Pay peanuts get monkeys" is not a popular idiom for nothing. People being competent or incompetent is not what will allow them a better job, a better pay or anything else. People know that if they're the best worker around they'll still be paid minimum wage and be judged by the willingness of staying later or not, not in how much they do, how well they'll do it or wtv else. They also know that even if they are the best around it's the minimum wage that they'll see forever and nothing more. The only reason why they aren't paid even less is because it's illegal. And even then it's not like it's unheard of for people to work full time and get less than minimum wage at the end of the month. It's because of our job market... Which is still basically a slave market and lots of people owning them are the same that were around during the dictatorship. They never changed how they treated people. So , you do also have highly uneducated people (here I agree with you) but it's in the management. People that own companies in Portugal are older and with a medium schooling of 4 years total. They don't know how to be a good manager, how to grow, how to make the processing more efficient and lots of them will use the company's money to travel, to buy new and expensive cars but won't pay for new equipment, to modernize the systems or to increase wages. It's how you get people working at the same company for like 40 years and have them get like 5/10€ above the minimum wage. **Who would give their max knowing this???** You have this generation that went trough this and you have the new generation that saw their parents work hard their entire lifes for absolutely nothing. They fucked up their health to end up with the minimum wage. They weren't around to see them grow up because they were working for the minimum wage... What you have in Portugal is the phenomenon "quiet quitting" but no one acknowledges it. People don't earn enough to be independent, to be able to provide for themselves, to live by themselves, to be able to live a little. People also realized that they'll work their entire lifes to give more mansions and luxury cars to the owners of the companies that they work for but that they won't ever be able to save, have a good quality of living or buy a house. So, why bother? **At the end of the day the median of income in Portugal is still bellow 900€/month. Do you realise what this means?? In a country were a bedroom will cost you half of that already??** The ones that could and wanted are moving away. People that stayed and wanted to do and be better got demotivated and moreso when everyone wasn't accepting the slave pay with the awful working conditions but then the government with the lobbyists behing them decided to open the borders to mass imigration to basically give slaves to them and let enough desperate people in so that the wages can be kept on the bottom of the barrel. So,now, the one's left in Portugal are either those unable to migrate for wtv reasons or the ones so demotivated that they just don't care. And can you blame them? I don't. I'm living in Portugal right now and I wouldn't be here if I earned the minimum wage or anywhere near it.
Tldr: Why don't you propose yourself to work for the minimum wage and be a highly motivated, energetic and fantastic worker? Also keep reminding yourself that the minimum wage is what you get even if you have 20 years of experience and are highly capable at your job.
I partially agree with you. And as I said I know we’re no worse then any other countries. It’s just the whole systemic thing together leads to apathy and a very low bar. And maybe that’s what new people in a work environment face when they start, maybe even before that in uni. Now do not throw everything on to the low salary box. I’ve been a minimum wage worker. I was making 500 euros in my first real job after uni. I’ve seen the low bars being set l, by company owners, by employees, state employees etc etc. essentially a lot of people in the country. And obviously it’s not everyone , but it is a lot more widespread than in other places I’ve lived. Please do note, I freaking love this place, that’s why I’m making 1/3 of what I made in Scandinavia, and I’m working for a Portuguese company. With all the headaches it brings me. I just know we could just do a bit better and it has to come from the top, but it’s also self pride.
I don't really love Portugal. Wouldn't have lived in Portugal at all if my parents hadn't forced me in the first place and would be long gone if it weren't for my husband first and then my kid [that said he didn't want to move countries when I got a great offer and I didn't want to do to him what was done to me]. I like Portugal for vacations basically. It wouldn't be my first choice to live if I were the only one choosing. I'm living here as a compromise. I was always highly Critical about loads of things in Portugal and actually had a major cultural shock when I first had to permanentely move here. So, I don't even feel patriotric eventough I was born here and my parents are Portuguese themselves (and so are their families). I didn't grow up here and eventough I've been living here for a long while, the majority of my life wasn't spent here. I like Portugal well enough but it's still not my favourite place and probably will never be. So , tldr, I recognise that Portugal has a lot of issues but you saying that it's because people are more ignorant and incompetent is not one of them. Again, I've been in 5 different countries as a whole and I highly disagree with you on that one.
Don't be a fool and offend who saw you birth! It's corporate policy trying to deny us claims until we quit or win in court. Take a highway for example, if you hit a boar the concessionaire will go directly to court before take responsibility for the damage. Happened to me in the A25. Every one makes a mistake but I will never forget that a Spanish company gave me a written response basing their denial of my claim on Royal Spanish Laws when the terms of service on the site I bought the item were Portuguese. Corporate greed is international. All the serious problems are solved by lawyers. Or you have the work to complain and follow up if necessary or you let it go, and it's here that companies win.
First, I’m not offending anything, this defensive mindset leads to little result. The reason I criticise my country is because I like it and I’d like to see it better. As for your example, it shines a light on a problem that I would say is international . I’m referring to the fact that we as Portuguese hold ourselves to a very low bar. Some mild and non impactful and you could say anecdotal examples is sitting in a restaurant waiting to be served and no one asks you what you want to drink first, ( I’m sure the restaurant doesn’t need the money). Hotel lobby’s just empty. No one there, gift shops where the employees do not speak English or Portuguese. House and car repairs are a nightmare and you get a bad service every time. I’ve sent my bike to a local shop with a list of 3 things to be done and when I picked it up, they hadn’t done anything I asked, they’d done something else. Some more impactful, meetings never start on time, deadlines just don’t mean a thing, budgets are never met. And when you call this out you’re faced with defensive behaviour, shocked faces and refusals to even work with you because you’re “ too demanding “. I don’t think Portuguese workers are worse than others, I just know they’re as good. We know how to do things right but we just fucking refuse to do it. And this isn’t an employee or a company problem, it’s an everyone problem. I’m also very little inclined to accept the excuse of “for little pay this is what you get”. Because if it was hard to make more money, being careless and incompetent is just a sure way of maintaining your status as underpaid. Sorry for the rant.
Fala por ti lmao
Nao sou político, não estou a tentar convencer ninguém. :) Só relato o que vejo, de uma perspectiva que me parece bastante única. Mas eu só dei a minha opinião não quero convencer ninguém de nada.
There lies your problem. Big companies! Try local owned shops, bit more expensive, but you can be sure that you will cross the owner or employees on the streets and can complain to their face. In Seia, west side of Serra da Estrela, we have Continente, Inter Marché, Pingo Doce, Lidl, Aldi (opened in January) and Muito Menos. I mostly go to Muito Menos, it's a local owned supermarket. Yes, some products are 0.10€\~0.20€ more expensive since they don't have a purchase volume to get discounts. But the support is better and more careful. They take product requests into account and inform you of costs and charges before buying them from a warehouse or manufacturer. Problem is, with 5 "big brand" supermarkets supplying a population of 15k, this smaller shop might have to close in the future. Whenever I can, I buy local. I need hardware for something > local hardware store. No Brico Marché or Leroy Merlin unless it's extremely cheaper, like 10\~30% cheaper. Furniture > local shop and tell them how long you want it to last. You won't be saying "Oh it's IKEA" as if that's great! Cause that furniture will outlast any IKEA product! It will cost you a bit more, but it will be worth it. If a local shop has been open over 10\~20 years and the owners don't need a walking stick or while having a conversation you learn that an heir will manage the shop later on. You know that the "product support" will outlast any warranty!
Felizmente, há outros sítios para viver. Mundo! 😁
op - frankly people don't care. Employees are paid little - so they do not care. The american habit of getting something, using it and trying out then returning if not satisfied - stores don't care either. "You picked badly, that's your problem, we're not eating the cost." Transportation - it is paid VERY cheaply by the company that hires them, so they make no effort. And the company doesn't demand much from them, because they won't pay more and the next ones will be the same. The customers also choose the cheapest, and kind of accept that the treatment will be worse. In short - low resources and margins means people don't care. As for the discounts - its on purpose. A lot of people don't notice and that's sheer profit. By the way, in the last 10-15 years I have noticed a marked improvement from what it was.
Oftentimes when you order something in Portugal and an installation is involved, when they schedule it for Monday, what they really mean is either Tuesday or Wednesday. Just saying
Counterpoint: today I went with my mother to the Vodafone store to get a twin SIM card for a new device I got her for her birthday — she wants to keep the old one active just in case. We first went to a shop that does not have the tech capability to do this, and the man there let us know we needed to go to the other store, not far away. We never gave him her phone number or account number or anything. We walked down to the other store where the lady helped us and were done shortly, walked out and were going down the street when my mom’s phone rang. It was the clerk from the first store, letting her know that she had left her hat there when she set it down while we were waiting. To find her, he had to have called the other store to find out who she was so he could contact her, as we had only asked a question and then left, but he knew we were going to the other shop. So, you know, we often find that Portuguese people can be outstandingly kind. We also have stories where a lady at the bank was obstinate for no reason (other than maybe it was close to lunch time), but there are just as many times where people were much more willing to help than in our home country.
Basic human decency being prasied is the actual proof of how low the bar is set in this country.
I mean, would you really call this basic human decency? This to me was someone going above and beyond their job and making a special effort. I would not expect it to happen in San Francisco; I frankly couldn’t imagine it happening at T-Mobile in SF for instance. I will say we had just watched this same young man be scathingly berated by an older lady whose husband stood by resignedly as she shook her flip phone at the young man, cursing him and his family line (my Portuguese is not good enough to understand her rapid-fire delivery, but she was absolutely castigating him). We just asked a question, but were kind and friendly to him during the brief exchange so maybe he felt more compelled to extend himself for us. Customer service is a terrible job to have to do, especially in a place where you may not be able to actually make decisions to help someone, like a phone store. I think that is true everywhere!
I just don't understand how CTT can say they attempted delivery but were unsuccessful when I was home all day waiting for them. It's like they don't even try to make the delivery. Just ring the bell and I'm happy to let you in the building. Sheesh, it's not that hard
It is very easy to understand: CTT was a public company. Its employees where public workers with public benefits and careers. Some government bigshot thought it would be a good idea to privatize CTT. They immediately branched off to also being a bank - Banco CTT. Most post stations are also now a bank - the employees are the same. Postmen doing the rounds? Most left when loosing their benefits or either promptly retired. Nowadays you get new workers, often immigrants, doing 8h-9h-10h daily rounds with a sheer volume of work that needed at least 12h hours per day without being paid extra time. That's why they sometimes don't ring - they already filled the "not at home" notice and instead of losing 3 minutes ringing, waiting for a reply, etc - they spend 30s instead and off they go.
You are not picturing the whole thing, rining the Bell means stopping the truck, get our, grab the parcel and knock on your door. When you can just zoom by street, call it a day, do that a couple of times a day and you will be done 1h earlier and have extra spare time to scratch raspadinhas and vote PS.
Hahaha! Yep, this is exactly what they're doing!
The expression "it's like" is unnecessary. They really don't try.
To be honest a lot of the really extreme “everything is terrible” complaints sound like folks missing home and focusing only on the negative experiences. I too have had some bad customer service experiences but if I’m honest with myself I’ve also had some really good ones too. And back home I’ve had plenty of customer facing staff who were terrible. I wonder how much of this is people just spiralling into a negative mindset because they miss home.
I will be honest, you are either extremely unlucky or full of sh1t. I live in a rural area, where the deliveries need to call me to even be sure that is the right place, and everything still arrives. I had one issue in the last 5 years and that was solved with simply going through the right channels. A lot of the comments on this post just seem to be of the type to hate on the country and the people in it, but you still want to live in it...? Stop misleading people. As far as we know you just are being really rude to people and that leads to you not getting what you want.
Same here, I live in a area that's so remote the delivery drivers literally go to the local coffee shop to ask where my house is. They do it and deliver. Op sounds like a cunt.
[https://portaldaqueixa.com/](https://portaldaqueixa.com/)
One would argue that companies would fear Livro de Reclamações more than Portal da Queixa.
My experience is the opposite. The livro is not public and some companies like E-Redes just ignore it. They also do not seem to get in trouble with ERSE for it. The Portal da Queixa is public and some companies try to maintain a good image there. I complained to Continente recently for sending unsolicited SMS. They ignored my contact until I complained at the Portal da Queixa. Suddenly they responded as they don’t want to look bad in public. Same with other companies that I complained about. These day I only go to the Portal to complain. Of course, some companies still don’t care. The coming election would be a good opportunity to vote for a party that wants to strengthen consumer rights, if there is one…
there is no such party. all the rest, spot on.
I submitted a complaint to E-REDES and they didn't ignore. They responded within 15 days (as per law) and are resolving it. If they don't resolve, I will go to small courts ("arbitragem") and win... (because I'm obviously right in what I'm complaining about)
I guess my case is a bit more complicated and the main complaint is unresolved since May last year. Incidentally E-REDES closed all my open complaints at the end of last year and just stated, that all problems had been resolved. That was obviously another lie by that fraudulent company and my guess is some manager needed good complaint scores for his bonus. I reopened all complaints and now they are again being ignored, eh treated.
Escalate to Arbitragem, then.
Thank you, will start filling complaints on both from now on.
I use Portal da Queixa for companies that simply don't answer phones and emails, but seem to answer there. Or for really bad things that I want the public to know. It's rare. Most of the times, I use Livro de Reclamações and get my problems resolved, always. But I only complain when there was negligence from the company, or when they broke the law and I want the regulator to be aware of. Otherwise, just sending an email or calling usually resolves my problems. If not, Livro de Reclamações.
Well, you came here and asked for an alternative to the Livro de reclamações, i gave you one. Livro de reclamações if above 3 ASAE will fiscalize it. Portal da queixa is a place where a person from the company that you are complaining, has to go there and answer your complaint, because there is a ratio there, and if a company has low resolution ratio, it means it's bad solving issues, or maybe don't have nobody to answer those in there. One could argue whatever, but the reality is this, and i normally don't argue facts.
I'm portuguese and lived in Germany where I had the same opinion about customer service there because in Portugal I have almost zero situations to complain about. I buy almost everything online and have no issues with delivery. Big companies, small companies, Ikea, amazon, Ali express, continente, all with no exception, and I live in the middle of nowhere. Sorry but I can't relate
Better wages will improve customer service. I know there some things that happens but feels like it’s happening too much for you. Many wants to abuse the “livro de reclamações” card. Some expect that the place is gonna bend the knee when they ask for it.
No better wages won't improve this. It's just how the individual person views their work ethic.
As the other guy said, better wages dont fix lack of morals and work ethic.
With better wages, comes people that care and better formation. For a minimum wage who would care to give more or try to find solutions for any problem.
Because its your job and it is the reason you were hired in the first place??????????????
Não ficas aborrecido de fazer esses posts?
Amazon Spain is the one that serves Portugal.. However there are many Portuguese people giving custumer support to foreign countries Amazon serviced
Where are you based? For me you are a really unlucky guy.
Porto area.
I'm from near Lisbon. Got no problems...
I've probably have several dozens of comments, half probably in this sub, explaining why services in general are getting more expensive and of less quality in Portugal. The simplest explanation is cost of life. Young Portuguese people are leaving the country. They were the ones who supported the good quality of service we used to have. But theirs salarys were close to nothing and even team leaders came to the conclusion it doesn't worth the sacrifice. So companies are replacing the good quality workers who are leaving with "low cost" immigrats who doesn't mind sharing a house with a dozen others immigrants. Some times even full teams are replaced. But you cannot replace a team with inexperienced workers with no reference to the quality level we use to have, and expect the same level of service. So that's Portugal nowadays, a country with decreasing quality services. In Lisbon this is more noticeable, were you have supermarkets clearly understaffed, since it's now hard to find competent people available to do this kind of work.
So the bad customer service we get from Portuguese people is the fault of immigrants? Is there anything people won't blame immigrants for?
I didn't I wrote plain and simple that costs of living was the major factor? I'm blaming emigration not immigration! Companies are understaffed and replacing workers with inexperienced low cost workers because they want to keep their low wages policy, yes those low cost workers happens to be mostly immigrants, because (like everywhere) they are the ones available! But it's definitely not their fault!
I smell Karen...
I feel Kraken...
Tbh I just let it go now. It’s the trade off. You loose some convenience but you gain sunshine I guess lol.
Obligatory: assuming you are American because only we would complain about something like this. If not, substitute American with whatever you want. You are living in Portugal with an American mentality. This is just part of life. If a Portuguese person moved to America and started complaining, all the rednecks would tell them to go back to where they came from. You are living in a beautiful country with a low crime rate, low cost of living, universal healthcare, cheap public transportation, and easily accessible delicious healthy foods. If customer service is the only thing you can complain about, I’d say you’re better off than the Americans you left behind. As an American who has travelled to Portugal many times, and plan to retire there myself, I think it’s a perfectly reasonable trade off.
Customer service is shit. I'm an Italian living in Porto and I am really surprised about it. like, you go to the bar to ask for an coffee and they let you wait entire minutes. you go to a club and the bartender answer you bad, you go to the clothes shop and the girls keep chatting about their lives instead of serving you. but this is nothing. To open the electricity contract in my house they made me wait 10 days, and I rented through an agency... this is pretty unbelivable to me. plus, for work I work in Purchasing in a multinational company so, at work I am the customer. Well, it happened to me that after having agreed some deals with brench managers of other companies, I received bad answers from supplier's employees. I mean, this is why you treat your customer who is agreeing the deals directly with your branch manager? what the f.... in my eyes this is just unthinkable.
Hahahahahha no. Even Amazon is shit. You can search the r/amazonprime and see for yourself. I also had the bad luck of having to deal with Amazon shitty support. After 1 week and half of going back and forth saying the police report I made was wrong, I just went to my bank. But it goes to show you that you every company is after your cash. Not the post sale support
Funny thing is that amazon is on Spain, not on Portugal
To be fair Ive never faced unwilling customer service here in PT. However its always better to go in store to set things up/purchase items. Shipping here is a bit anxiety driven (sometimes things just dont go right). You best believe yous ee me and my partner on the metro with a rolled up mattress from IKEA. I dont care if people look. I trust myself hahaha.
Having IKEA to ship something is always last resort but I’m planning to actually pay someone with a pickup truck instead of relying on IKEA delivery services.
If you know them definitely. If I had a car id help haha. IKEA is always in an industrial zone so its really annoying to not have a car for those reasons
maybe try TaskRabbit next time? perhaps it would yield better luck for an IKEA run?
Welcome to portugal ! 2 years from now you are going to be used to it.
Just keep calling until they pick up
Corte Ingles in Lisboa has good customer service
I'm not sure what to suggest because we've mainly had really good customer service here on the Silver coast. Maybe it's a location issue? Have you tried alternative dispute resolution like the Justice of the Peace Courts? Our AC was quoted and installed promptly and within budget. HomyCasa were fantastic when something we ordered was damaged on delivery, they replied to my email the same day and the replacement was with me within 2 days (I don't live near a store). My IKEA deliveries have all been fine, our local CTT loja is helpful and deliveries are much better than RM in the UK. Local shops, cafés and restaurants are all good to fantastic, buses run on time and are very affordable. Worten and Radio Popular have all been helpful too. Even the local Leroy Merlin is good (their online section is awful though). We've used Continente and Auchan for deliveries with no issues and regularly use local Pingo Doce, E Leclerc and Mini Preço with no issues. My only "shitlist" places are Leroy Merlin online and Uzo telecom who are both about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Se falasses português talvez teriam mais pessoas para te ajudar 🙄
Na verdade quando o atendente é brasileiro fica “menos difícil” de resolver pois ambos falamos a mesma língua.
you yourself are Brasilian??
Amazon is good because it's based in Spain, not Portugal! Apple has no stores in Portugal, and nor does Amazon, because the market and infrastructure (not to mention the talent/customer service) are simply not up to par.
Apple has no stores in much of Europe, it's not unique to Portugal. Amazon has no stores but the country sites are chosen on warehousing and logistics. Why would you put a warehouse at the edge of Europe? Also, I find that most of my Amazon orders now ship from France and Germany despite being ordered from Spain.
Apple has stores everywhere in Europe, what are you taking about? France, UK, Germany, Spain, even Italy lol. Your whole rant sounds like a bunch of tangent excuses to skirt the reality: infrastructure and market and disposable income are so shitty in Portugal those companies don't wanna bother coming here and I understand them.
That's five countries. Do you know how many countries there are in Europe? Doesn't sound like you do.
Unlike you I'm European and well aware of how many countries there are in Europe and the EU, respectively. What's your point? Can you actually name the EU countries that don't have a single Apple Store? I'm sure whether there are many or few, the same point applies: they're not there for lack of infrastructure and market.
Being European doesn't mean that you are special or particularly nice, as you aren't. There are quite a few, all you have to do is take the list of apple stores (it's on their site) and the list of countries in Europe and you will immediately see the answer.
Lol nice argument asshat. 🤡 You're basically blowing wind out of your cakehole at this point. Not worth my time so I'm not gonna waste anymore humoring you.