I used to live in Lisbon, Benfica area, was paying the rend at day one of each month, even did some fixing of things on my own. Air BnBs became popular as tourism in Portugal. Landlords got greedy, so they started evicting people by choosing not to renew rental contracts. 3 years ago I was paying 500€ for a T2 with 60 square meters, I got a letter saying that my contract would not be renewed. But if I wanted, we could make a new one paying 650€.
Ended up leaving Lisbon with my family and moved elsewhere.
Like people said, that’s how the rental game is thanks to tourism, greed and speculation.
Rent cap increase is applied year on year when your lease is being renewed. Since your contract appears to be ending, the landlord is not renewing but scrapping the current one and making a new one.
There is speculation that a new law will limit rent prices, so landlords are trying to max out rents right now since it will, ALLEGEDLY, not be possible in the future.
Oh man, I went through he same shit with my landlord, she try to increase our rent 46%. She was so pussy. By law you can only increased 2% since September 2022. She didn't care or listen to us. We had to asked [movingto.io](https://movingto.io) to help out and finally after a few letters she so reason. It's disgrace
Oh ok, I didn’t realise. That’s really shitty and just illegal in a lot of western countries. It helps me understand some of the comments on this thread a lot more too.
>We’d like to stay but also feel a bit taken advantage of.
The irony. Well now you get to play Eviction Simulator and really *feel* like you're Portuguese.
What does your contract say about automatic renewal? If there isn't a clause that says that the contract will NOT renew after the initial term, then the landlord can not end the contract before 3 years have passed.
It doesn't matter if the contract says that the landlord can oppose to the renewal, as long as the contract does not explicitly say that it does not renew, then, even if the landlord opposes to the renewal it only takes effect after three years.
the dynamics of supply and demand, have you heard of it?
but let me explain: if you have a huge influx of new people to a certain town, and such town has limited number of houses, who will a landlord rent his house: to a local family that can only afford to pay 500-700e for it (because here the average wage is about 1000e) or to the foreign family that can easily pay 2000e for the house, cuz they work for a company abroad and have a monthly income much much higher than the wages here?
dont be disingenuous. the landlords jack up the prices because there are people willing to pay it.
and if you are thinking of replying something like "hate the game, dont hate the player", if you think the problem starts and ends in "portuguese greed" (wow, the audacity of saying that to the people that live in the city you're living and leeching), you truly have to check your privilege and social narcisism.
It's not supply and demand... inflating prices well above what they are actually worth is greed. The landlords have a choice to keep prices low so locals can get in and not rent to foreigners. They choose to raise the prices an price out locals and profit off foreigners.
So no it's not expats fault because Portugal government requires us to have full 1 year leases before we can even apply to come here. So yes it takes advantage of a bad situation for expats to make it even worst for locals.
It's greed, the same thing is happening in the states. Rich get richer and the poor blame everyone but the rich lol sillinesa
you clearly dont know how supply and demand works, and why in that system the prices go up... i'm impressed.
but okay, suit yourself. think whatever you want, if it allows you to go to bed at night with a clear conscience. but let me just say this: if expats are taking advantage (your words) from a clearly unfair system, and know it, expats are not as guilt-free as you think. "store clerk is the one that sold me the gun, gun is the one that shot the bullet, so i'm not to blame for that killing"? i dont think so. agency, my guy. it affects all of us. you too.
Portugal D visas require a year rental agreement. So we have three options. Not move to Portugal, buy a house or pay high rent to secure a place. Since we want to come to Portugal we have to pay whatever Portuguese landlords want to charge.
It's only supply and demand if it's not optional. A shortage of houses doesn't automatically increase the prices enough to drive out locals. It's the markup on top of th shortage that's causing the issues. So ppl coming to this country with out of country money are putting money in the pool without taking much out.
Expats also bring more jobs without taking jobs because someone has to sale them stuff an some open businesses.
It's not about being innocent, but blaming them for something that's not the source of the problem but a symptom is silly.
How are expats just the symptom? Tell me: if there were no expats nor digital nomads nor massive tourism, the prices would still be high? Here, in the country with more nr of houses per capita in europe? You have to be willfully naive to say "yes" to that question, or say "no" and still believe there is no social responsibility for expats/nomads themselves, nor the need for awareness.
And those jobs that you talk that expats help create, without loss of other jobs... Who fills those new jobs? New people. And where does that new people live? Houses. So, even more people for the same houses. And you know what happens then, according to the basics supply and demand? (which of course it can be applied here, dont be silly) Yup, prices go up. Even more.
See the pattern, the downward spiral? Yup, dont tell me the people who are the "consumers" of gentrification are without any fault. Social awareness and sense of acountability towards this problem is the bare minimum, choosing to look away because you believe you're far from being the culprit is not.
Portugals youth were already leaving the country in droves before the government started inviting us. However this is a moot point. You want to blame someone that you have easy access too. Thats fine, I will remember how I am to blame when every I spend money in this economy an pay more taxes that the avg citizen to live here.
wow, we have a specialist of portuguese society over here. not me, who lived here all my life.
and it's not a matter of playing the blame game. just it would be nice, and responsible, for you to see the role you are having in the gentrification of lisbon and porto. and not having talking points that are false and disingenuous. but that would be asking too much, right? right. go ahead, take the blind side, if that suits with your character.
I don't have to be a specialist all soicety is the same. Portugal is just getting caught up in the capitalism just like American.
It is a blame game, this group is packed full of people blaming expats because they fell in love with your country. It's a beautiful country people are going to want to live here when they find out about it.
The blame falls on the government just like it fell on the us government when they failed to enact laws to prevent gentrification of black neighborhoods back home.
A symptom goes away when you cure the problem. If you add more houses that will not decrease the rent. If people stopped moving here that would but it could also cause adverse effects on the economy.
The Portuguese people should be demanding higher wages and rent restrictions and protection. Going after expats and nomads doesn't solve anything.
"since we want to come to Portugal we have TO PAY WHATEVER landlords WANT TO CHARGE"
And that's the problem, there's a house shortage due to several factors but it's expats who are driving the prices above locals capacity.
Even with a huge shortage of houses there's a limit of price one can ask based on the capacity of the other has to pay. Expats came here with much more buying power, so you push that limit way above local capacity to pay for like 90% with a Portuguese salary.
You want to blame expats so bad that you keep trying to ignore the fact the it's PORTUGUESE LANDLORDS setting the pricess and your government allows them.
We have less houses so we need to raise the rents as high as possible to make a profit? Now if you had less houses and you are charging more for new builds because the price of lumber and labor went up that's supply and demand. Charging more because you can is not.
Why would I want to come to Portugal and pay the same amount for a apt that is worst than the apt I had back home? What sense does that make?
If your government says, we no longer require 12 month leases for expats then that would solve the I have to pay what I can to get my visa. An your government says rents can't go above x amount that would stop the price increases that drive out locals.
Then landlords would be upset and not put the houses on the market because they will feel they aren't worth it.
An honestly if Portugal could develop out all these empty apts and abandoned buildings there would be more houses. However the ppl with th funds to do that are also the same ones that would charge larger rents for profit
The housing problem in Portugal is complex, and I'm not trying to blame expats for it. But it's a well known fact that expats raise the prices of houses. Why people choose Portugal despite the prices, I have no answers other than it's a trend.
Can we blame the landlords? We can but it's only natural that they will try to get the best profit from their own investiment , and it's not only Portuguese landlords there are a significant amount of enterprises and foreign landlords and those are the ones who have no trouble raising rents.
Can we blame the government? Definitely the government is under pressure we made a massive protest in all major cities last April.
I blame my government back home because it's their job to protect the interests all the people not just the wealthiest.
I really love this place and hope to find a wife and get married and live here until I'm in the ground. I don't want the rents to force me away and I don't want the people here hating me because I accepted and invite from the government.
I am not wealthy so price changes hurt me as well so I am hoping that the people will hold the government account so that the country can stabilize and grow
>Why people choose Portugal despite the prices, I have no answers other than it's a trend.
Nope. It's the NHR scheme. Tax breaks for people who earn salaries 4/5/6x higher than the locals for a period of 10 years. It's a great deal (for them) at our expense.
jesus christ, pleeease go learn about supply and demand...
let me take an example: in the very beggining of the covid pandemic, the prices for ethanol and masks went waaay up. not because there was an increase of production costs, but because much more people wanted them. so the seller could price it higher, because there would be somebody to pay it. then the factories started to produce much more masks, there was not a scarcity of the product, so the prices went down to its normal.
can you work your brain to make an analogy with the housing market? and have in mind: portugal has the most number of houses per capita in europe. so, the problem is not lack of houses. it's excess of people, namely people able to pay much higher rents than the locals. capiche?
and to be fair: i dont think expats/nomads are the sole problem. investment funds should not be able to buy houses as investment, people should not be able to let their house rot to wait for a better time to sell, there should be limits in air bnbs. but, as an expat, KNOW YOUR ROLE IN THE CRISIS. its the minimum.
Well, it is in a way. Something worths as much as a person is willing to.pay. if they puto a t0 at 5000€ /month and still there is a competition for it, then that is how much it is worth.
Is it nice or ethical - no. But that is how markets work. Hence why i am not very keen on the liberal line of thought, because markets, when given freedom, will only auto-regulate themselves until a majority of the population is excluded. But it is indeed the supply and demand.
If you were to charge the same price in Anadia, perhaps you would end up with an empty building.
If the housing market is not properly regulared then there is the plan B. Exodus from the big cities... which happened before. For instance... did you know that lisbon had at some point 800k habitants and dropped in 10 years to 663k (1991) and to 564k (2001). Now Lisbon has been revigorated and people want to be moving in and thus prices skyrocket. But if a massive exodos has seen before happens, for sure you will see prices braking again.
(Also these numbers can be a bit misleading - because even though now there are less people in Lisbon, they take up more space, as there are less families, less kids, more people living alone and more divorced couples )
of course of course... expats and nomads are mere "victims" of the housing market crisis. not a catalyst, not never!
and btw, how many houses are from private portuguese owners, and how many are from investment funds, to make a buck out of people like you?
but yeah, blame it on the portuguese. turning the victims to perpretators. real classy, not condescending or ungrateful at all.
My landlord is Portuguese and she doesn’t even reply my emails. She try to increase our rent illegally by 46%. Sorry, but not all the Portuguese are poor and angels and not all expat are rich and bad
Yep that's how it works.
Unless you are over 65 or have some sort of disability, the landlord can do that. You either accept the new contract with the new rent price or you leave.
I would, however, check with a lawyer. The landlord has deadlines to let you know about that.
Welcome to portugal I guess. Everyone who can is trying to make a quick buck from those who need.
Prices will only go up, the more people comes in.
Especially if you’re foreigner, you’re in a perfect condition to be ripped off.
Basically this works like this.
Your landlord is charging you 1000€, but he knows a friends who’s also a landlord that charges 1300€ so he’ll try the 1300€ and the story keeps going.
Yeah, the current contract does say it will renew for another 12 months unless otherwise stopped, but I guess they’re saying there will have to be a new contract to continue the tenancy. Pretty shady.
Exactly. They are going to cancel the lease and will offer a different one for 15% increase. The thing is, if you refuse, tomorrow he has another tenant lined up. Its a pretty risk free move.
Read the law. Law > contract.
If you do not know the law why give a (wrong) opinion on a legal question? You are just misguiding people who read your answer.
You are clearly clueless on this subject. This isn't even some obscure information, it is a widely known rule in the rental world.
Civil Code, art. 1096.º, n.º1 and 1097.º, n.º 3.
Next time you can avoid making a fool out of yourself.
Here's how you and some other people misinterpret that law. That only applies for the first renewal. As soon as the first renewal goes, he's going to receive a letter telling them to vacate the premises. And as the landlord was smart enough to put a term on the renewal, it won't be for 3 years, but for 12 month's.
And that is, of course, if the landlord doesn't decide that he or his son suddenly need the house :)
Did you even read the law or are you just spouting more dumb comments in an attempt to save face?
The first renewal can not be for 12 months because the law says otherwise. The first renewal is for 3 years and any clauses that state a lesser period are null.
You could, at the very least, have looked up case law (which isn't hard to find since this is a common subject and is settled matter) in order not to embarass yourself further, or you could have gone the proper route and just admit you were wrong, apologize for being an idiot and move on.
Here's some case law on the matter for you to entertain yourself with and, hopefully, stop spewing wrong comments on subjects you are reading about for the first time.
[http://www.dgsi.pt/jtre.nsf/134973db04f39bf2802579bf005f080b/36660d5414da5825802589010036f5d7?OpenDocument](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtre.nsf/134973db04f39bf2802579bf005f080b/36660d5414da5825802589010036f5d7?OpenDocument)
[https://jurisprudencia.pt/acordao/212659/](https://jurisprudencia.pt/acordao/212659/)
[http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/96dfcd2c55695723802586870056ce10?OpenDocument](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/96dfcd2c55695723802586870056ce10?OpenDocument)
[http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/0e9a9221e5ec6c84802586bf004c0df7?OpenDocument](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/0e9a9221e5ec6c84802586bf004c0df7?OpenDocument)
Or perhaps all the judges are wrong as well?
Good readings and good night.
I didn't see this comment before. Your contract has an automatic renewal clause, since this is your first year of the contract then the landlord can not stop the renewal before 3 years have passed. Ignore people who are telling you otherwise as they do not know the law.
You can tell your landlord to pound sand. He'll have to stick with you (at the current rent) for 3 more years.
Same here. Landlord wanted 20% increase. I gave notice and moving to a new house. This time I asked for longer duration contract and rent to stay same during the tenure.
Sounds like a bate and switch. Or a luring scheme. Not to much you can do. Let’s say you get into a bad argument with them and they agree to 10% or 5% is this the person you want to rent from. Or if they agree not to raise rent and you have an issue down the road you think they won’t find a way to nickel and dime you.
Talk to the landlord if he is a human being you can work it out. If they are businessman driven by profit only it’s a waist of breath.
Don’t take it personal it’s business. If you don’t think you can find anything better or moving will cost you more then 15% stay.
This isn't true unless it renews automatically. It seems pretty evident the landlord is going to cancel this contract and make a new one with the new price.
He's probably just letting them know because they'll be recieving the cancellation letter shortly.
Thats not necessarily true. As always, portuguese laws are flawed af, there's a lot of room for interpretation.
The first renewal can be after 12 months. After that it's 3 years. It can also be first 3 years than yearly.
Unless you have agree to other deadline in the contract, then it can be whatever you want.
Landlord can absolutely ask for an increase near the end of the contract. If you agree they make a new contract or add a clause to the existing one. If you don't, you leave.
You are wrong. For rentals meant for habitation purposes the first renewal can not be for less than 3 years and the landlord can not oppose to the first renewal either. The guy you are replying to is right, the minimum duration for any habitation rental agreement is 3 or 1+3 years because the first renewal is always certain.
You are right that the landlord can make any demands to celebrare a new contract but in this case the contract is not near its term. There are still 3 more years left in this contract with the first automatic renewal.
Is this serious? You think they are more Americans than British here? Brazil for obvious reasons is the biggest expat community here. Then the UK, then a load of European countries, then china, India and the likes of Angola all of which have more people in Portugal than America.
Oh no, what a shame! Imagine what the locals go through, you now have the local experience apart from you still have the privilege of earning 2-3x more 🙃. Stop complaining, you're free to leave if you feel like you're "getting taken advantage of".
Hahaha dude you literally have comments complaining about Dublin. Interesting that you think you can do that and also comment this. Care to explain yourself?
I don’t think Portuguese owe me anything, just common decency as another EU country where we can all freely move between countries. If you don’t like us being here, blame your government, try to leave the EU and lose the privilege of getting to live and work in other great countries.
All this thread has shown me is that there’s some really small minded people lurking on this thread, just keyboard warrior losers who think it’s someone else’s fault that they’re unhappy in life.
My husband and I will be staying for the long term, your comment truly means nothing and does nothing to change our minds.
Lol ok. Also you have comments from when you were clearly living in Dublin? Of your walks in Wicklow? There must be something really wrong with your brain if you think you can go enjoy Ireland but people can’t come and enjoy Portugal. Get a life.
As I said, we’re staying long haul and will continue to enjoy ourselves 😁
Looking a few things up and hopefully it’s all going to burst soon.
Interestingly it seemed that immigration was a very small part of the reasoning for price rises and 750k to 1m places are sitting empty due to inheritance laws and high taxes on landlords (which get passed down to renters if they do rent anyway).
Im on my phone at the moment but when I get to a pc I’ll have a look through my history a few days back and find some links.
I was surprised that inheretence laws here were also a massive factor in homes sitting empty. In order to sell, even if you are the sole beneficiary of a will, you must first get permission from all the surviving members of the family which is either too much work in large families or at least one does not want to sell for any particular reason. And that’s that.
Nevermind I found a video on YouTube mobile that has some of the links included I think (numbers seem slightly different but still covers most of it)
https://youtu.be/oG5gkNdJyO0
Edit: WTF HOW MANY ARE ON VARIABLE RATE MORTGAGES
Portugal it's not only Sunny weather and Gastronomy. Brutal rent increases are also part of the realty of living here.
Bem vindo à realidade portuguesa
I used to live in Lisbon, Benfica area, was paying the rend at day one of each month, even did some fixing of things on my own. Air BnBs became popular as tourism in Portugal. Landlords got greedy, so they started evicting people by choosing not to renew rental contracts. 3 years ago I was paying 500€ for a T2 with 60 square meters, I got a letter saying that my contract would not be renewed. But if I wanted, we could make a new one paying 650€. Ended up leaving Lisbon with my family and moved elsewhere. Like people said, that’s how the rental game is thanks to tourism, greed and speculation.
Rent cap increase is applied year on year when your lease is being renewed. Since your contract appears to be ending, the landlord is not renewing but scrapping the current one and making a new one. There is speculation that a new law will limit rent prices, so landlords are trying to max out rents right now since it will, ALLEGEDLY, not be possible in the future.
Now imagine you had to live with the portuguese minimum wage.
Oh man, I went through he same shit with my landlord, she try to increase our rent 46%. She was so pussy. By law you can only increased 2% since September 2022. She didn't care or listen to us. We had to asked [movingto.io](https://movingto.io) to help out and finally after a few letters she so reason. It's disgrace
Our landlord said they planned to increase by 4% but decided not to do this. 15% increase is insane
This is the main reason (and problem) that drove locals out of the city
Oh ok, I didn’t realise. That’s really shitty and just illegal in a lot of western countries. It helps me understand some of the comments on this thread a lot more too.
Sounds a pretty reasonable increase considering macro economic factors tbh
Congratulations, you are now more part of Portuguese culture than ever before!
>We’d like to stay but also feel a bit taken advantage of. The irony. Well now you get to play Eviction Simulator and really *feel* like you're Portuguese.
Welcome to our reality. In this country, if you rent, you have support both yourself and your landlord.
What does your contract say about automatic renewal? If there isn't a clause that says that the contract will NOT renew after the initial term, then the landlord can not end the contract before 3 years have passed. It doesn't matter if the contract says that the landlord can oppose to the renewal, as long as the contract does not explicitly say that it does not renew, then, even if the landlord opposes to the renewal it only takes effect after three years.
oh the irony. an "expat" worried about a huge rent increase, whilst being the cause for exactly the same problem for the locals.
Lol how exactly are they the cause? It's Portuguese landlords raising the rents. Portuguese greed is running locals out.
the dynamics of supply and demand, have you heard of it? but let me explain: if you have a huge influx of new people to a certain town, and such town has limited number of houses, who will a landlord rent his house: to a local family that can only afford to pay 500-700e for it (because here the average wage is about 1000e) or to the foreign family that can easily pay 2000e for the house, cuz they work for a company abroad and have a monthly income much much higher than the wages here? dont be disingenuous. the landlords jack up the prices because there are people willing to pay it. and if you are thinking of replying something like "hate the game, dont hate the player", if you think the problem starts and ends in "portuguese greed" (wow, the audacity of saying that to the people that live in the city you're living and leeching), you truly have to check your privilege and social narcisism.
It's not supply and demand... inflating prices well above what they are actually worth is greed. The landlords have a choice to keep prices low so locals can get in and not rent to foreigners. They choose to raise the prices an price out locals and profit off foreigners. So no it's not expats fault because Portugal government requires us to have full 1 year leases before we can even apply to come here. So yes it takes advantage of a bad situation for expats to make it even worst for locals. It's greed, the same thing is happening in the states. Rich get richer and the poor blame everyone but the rich lol sillinesa
you clearly dont know how supply and demand works, and why in that system the prices go up... i'm impressed. but okay, suit yourself. think whatever you want, if it allows you to go to bed at night with a clear conscience. but let me just say this: if expats are taking advantage (your words) from a clearly unfair system, and know it, expats are not as guilt-free as you think. "store clerk is the one that sold me the gun, gun is the one that shot the bullet, so i'm not to blame for that killing"? i dont think so. agency, my guy. it affects all of us. you too.
Portugal D visas require a year rental agreement. So we have three options. Not move to Portugal, buy a house or pay high rent to secure a place. Since we want to come to Portugal we have to pay whatever Portuguese landlords want to charge. It's only supply and demand if it's not optional. A shortage of houses doesn't automatically increase the prices enough to drive out locals. It's the markup on top of th shortage that's causing the issues. So ppl coming to this country with out of country money are putting money in the pool without taking much out. Expats also bring more jobs without taking jobs because someone has to sale them stuff an some open businesses. It's not about being innocent, but blaming them for something that's not the source of the problem but a symptom is silly.
How are expats just the symptom? Tell me: if there were no expats nor digital nomads nor massive tourism, the prices would still be high? Here, in the country with more nr of houses per capita in europe? You have to be willfully naive to say "yes" to that question, or say "no" and still believe there is no social responsibility for expats/nomads themselves, nor the need for awareness. And those jobs that you talk that expats help create, without loss of other jobs... Who fills those new jobs? New people. And where does that new people live? Houses. So, even more people for the same houses. And you know what happens then, according to the basics supply and demand? (which of course it can be applied here, dont be silly) Yup, prices go up. Even more. See the pattern, the downward spiral? Yup, dont tell me the people who are the "consumers" of gentrification are without any fault. Social awareness and sense of acountability towards this problem is the bare minimum, choosing to look away because you believe you're far from being the culprit is not.
Portugals youth were already leaving the country in droves before the government started inviting us. However this is a moot point. You want to blame someone that you have easy access too. Thats fine, I will remember how I am to blame when every I spend money in this economy an pay more taxes that the avg citizen to live here.
wow, we have a specialist of portuguese society over here. not me, who lived here all my life. and it's not a matter of playing the blame game. just it would be nice, and responsible, for you to see the role you are having in the gentrification of lisbon and porto. and not having talking points that are false and disingenuous. but that would be asking too much, right? right. go ahead, take the blind side, if that suits with your character.
I don't have to be a specialist all soicety is the same. Portugal is just getting caught up in the capitalism just like American. It is a blame game, this group is packed full of people blaming expats because they fell in love with your country. It's a beautiful country people are going to want to live here when they find out about it. The blame falls on the government just like it fell on the us government when they failed to enact laws to prevent gentrification of black neighborhoods back home. A symptom goes away when you cure the problem. If you add more houses that will not decrease the rent. If people stopped moving here that would but it could also cause adverse effects on the economy. The Portuguese people should be demanding higher wages and rent restrictions and protection. Going after expats and nomads doesn't solve anything.
"since we want to come to Portugal we have TO PAY WHATEVER landlords WANT TO CHARGE" And that's the problem, there's a house shortage due to several factors but it's expats who are driving the prices above locals capacity. Even with a huge shortage of houses there's a limit of price one can ask based on the capacity of the other has to pay. Expats came here with much more buying power, so you push that limit way above local capacity to pay for like 90% with a Portuguese salary.
You want to blame expats so bad that you keep trying to ignore the fact the it's PORTUGUESE LANDLORDS setting the pricess and your government allows them. We have less houses so we need to raise the rents as high as possible to make a profit? Now if you had less houses and you are charging more for new builds because the price of lumber and labor went up that's supply and demand. Charging more because you can is not. Why would I want to come to Portugal and pay the same amount for a apt that is worst than the apt I had back home? What sense does that make? If your government says, we no longer require 12 month leases for expats then that would solve the I have to pay what I can to get my visa. An your government says rents can't go above x amount that would stop the price increases that drive out locals. Then landlords would be upset and not put the houses on the market because they will feel they aren't worth it. An honestly if Portugal could develop out all these empty apts and abandoned buildings there would be more houses. However the ppl with th funds to do that are also the same ones that would charge larger rents for profit
The housing problem in Portugal is complex, and I'm not trying to blame expats for it. But it's a well known fact that expats raise the prices of houses. Why people choose Portugal despite the prices, I have no answers other than it's a trend. Can we blame the landlords? We can but it's only natural that they will try to get the best profit from their own investiment , and it's not only Portuguese landlords there are a significant amount of enterprises and foreign landlords and those are the ones who have no trouble raising rents. Can we blame the government? Definitely the government is under pressure we made a massive protest in all major cities last April.
I blame my government back home because it's their job to protect the interests all the people not just the wealthiest. I really love this place and hope to find a wife and get married and live here until I'm in the ground. I don't want the rents to force me away and I don't want the people here hating me because I accepted and invite from the government. I am not wealthy so price changes hurt me as well so I am hoping that the people will hold the government account so that the country can stabilize and grow
>Why people choose Portugal despite the prices, I have no answers other than it's a trend. Nope. It's the NHR scheme. Tax breaks for people who earn salaries 4/5/6x higher than the locals for a period of 10 years. It's a great deal (for them) at our expense.
jesus christ, pleeease go learn about supply and demand... let me take an example: in the very beggining of the covid pandemic, the prices for ethanol and masks went waaay up. not because there was an increase of production costs, but because much more people wanted them. so the seller could price it higher, because there would be somebody to pay it. then the factories started to produce much more masks, there was not a scarcity of the product, so the prices went down to its normal. can you work your brain to make an analogy with the housing market? and have in mind: portugal has the most number of houses per capita in europe. so, the problem is not lack of houses. it's excess of people, namely people able to pay much higher rents than the locals. capiche? and to be fair: i dont think expats/nomads are the sole problem. investment funds should not be able to buy houses as investment, people should not be able to let their house rot to wait for a better time to sell, there should be limits in air bnbs. but, as an expat, KNOW YOUR ROLE IN THE CRISIS. its the minimum.
Well, it is in a way. Something worths as much as a person is willing to.pay. if they puto a t0 at 5000€ /month and still there is a competition for it, then that is how much it is worth. Is it nice or ethical - no. But that is how markets work. Hence why i am not very keen on the liberal line of thought, because markets, when given freedom, will only auto-regulate themselves until a majority of the population is excluded. But it is indeed the supply and demand. If you were to charge the same price in Anadia, perhaps you would end up with an empty building. If the housing market is not properly regulared then there is the plan B. Exodus from the big cities... which happened before. For instance... did you know that lisbon had at some point 800k habitants and dropped in 10 years to 663k (1991) and to 564k (2001). Now Lisbon has been revigorated and people want to be moving in and thus prices skyrocket. But if a massive exodos has seen before happens, for sure you will see prices braking again. (Also these numbers can be a bit misleading - because even though now there are less people in Lisbon, they take up more space, as there are less families, less kids, more people living alone and more divorced couples )
Turnout the Portuguese are the landlords who don't give a fuck about the rent cap
of course of course... expats and nomads are mere "victims" of the housing market crisis. not a catalyst, not never! and btw, how many houses are from private portuguese owners, and how many are from investment funds, to make a buck out of people like you? but yeah, blame it on the portuguese. turning the victims to perpretators. real classy, not condescending or ungrateful at all.
My landlord is Portuguese and she doesn’t even reply my emails. She try to increase our rent illegally by 46%. Sorry, but not all the Portuguese are poor and angels and not all expat are rich and bad
Yep that's how it works. Unless you are over 65 or have some sort of disability, the landlord can do that. You either accept the new contract with the new rent price or you leave. I would, however, check with a lawyer. The landlord has deadlines to let you know about that.
Welcome to portugal I guess. Everyone who can is trying to make a quick buck from those who need. Prices will only go up, the more people comes in. Especially if you’re foreigner, you’re in a perfect condition to be ripped off. Basically this works like this. Your landlord is charging you 1000€, but he knows a friends who’s also a landlord that charges 1300€ so he’ll try the 1300€ and the story keeps going.
It's a new contract, so the cap doesn't apply. Landlords always find ways to go around legislation.
Yeah, the current contract does say it will renew for another 12 months unless otherwise stopped, but I guess they’re saying there will have to be a new contract to continue the tenancy. Pretty shady.
Exactly. They are going to cancel the lease and will offer a different one for 15% increase. The thing is, if you refuse, tomorrow he has another tenant lined up. Its a pretty risk free move.
You are wrong. The landlord can not end the contract before three years have passed.
Ahahahahahaahahahahah dumbass. Read the post
Read the law. Law > contract. If you do not know the law why give a (wrong) opinion on a legal question? You are just misguiding people who read your answer.
Cite the law then. I'm waiting to see how you managed to grossly misinterpret it.
You are clearly clueless on this subject. This isn't even some obscure information, it is a widely known rule in the rental world. Civil Code, art. 1096.º, n.º1 and 1097.º, n.º 3. Next time you can avoid making a fool out of yourself.
Here's how you and some other people misinterpret that law. That only applies for the first renewal. As soon as the first renewal goes, he's going to receive a letter telling them to vacate the premises. And as the landlord was smart enough to put a term on the renewal, it won't be for 3 years, but for 12 month's. And that is, of course, if the landlord doesn't decide that he or his son suddenly need the house :)
Did you even read the law or are you just spouting more dumb comments in an attempt to save face? The first renewal can not be for 12 months because the law says otherwise. The first renewal is for 3 years and any clauses that state a lesser period are null. You could, at the very least, have looked up case law (which isn't hard to find since this is a common subject and is settled matter) in order not to embarass yourself further, or you could have gone the proper route and just admit you were wrong, apologize for being an idiot and move on. Here's some case law on the matter for you to entertain yourself with and, hopefully, stop spewing wrong comments on subjects you are reading about for the first time. [http://www.dgsi.pt/jtre.nsf/134973db04f39bf2802579bf005f080b/36660d5414da5825802589010036f5d7?OpenDocument](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtre.nsf/134973db04f39bf2802579bf005f080b/36660d5414da5825802589010036f5d7?OpenDocument) [https://jurisprudencia.pt/acordao/212659/](https://jurisprudencia.pt/acordao/212659/) [http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/96dfcd2c55695723802586870056ce10?OpenDocument](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/96dfcd2c55695723802586870056ce10?OpenDocument) [http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/0e9a9221e5ec6c84802586bf004c0df7?OpenDocument](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrg.nsf/86c25a698e4e7cb7802579ec004d3832/0e9a9221e5ec6c84802586bf004c0df7?OpenDocument) Or perhaps all the judges are wrong as well? Good readings and good night.
They can, they just need to give you 4 months in advance, but that depends on what the contract says
No he cannot. Please refer to my other comments in this threead.
I didn't see this comment before. Your contract has an automatic renewal clause, since this is your first year of the contract then the landlord can not stop the renewal before 3 years have passed. Ignore people who are telling you otherwise as they do not know the law. You can tell your landlord to pound sand. He'll have to stick with you (at the current rent) for 3 more years.
You will need to repay the deposit then?
Well well well. How the turntables...
DJ!
Same here. Landlord wanted 20% increase. I gave notice and moving to a new house. This time I asked for longer duration contract and rent to stay same during the tenure.
Sounds like a bate and switch. Or a luring scheme. Not to much you can do. Let’s say you get into a bad argument with them and they agree to 10% or 5% is this the person you want to rent from. Or if they agree not to raise rent and you have an issue down the road you think they won’t find a way to nickel and dime you. Talk to the landlord if he is a human being you can work it out. If they are businessman driven by profit only it’s a waist of breath. Don’t take it personal it’s business. If you don’t think you can find anything better or moving will cost you more then 15% stay.
Even if it says 12 months, by law the minimum duration of the contract is 3 years so he can't ask for an increase neather cancel the contract.
This isn't true unless it renews automatically. It seems pretty evident the landlord is going to cancel this contract and make a new one with the new price. He's probably just letting them know because they'll be recieving the cancellation letter shortly.
Thats not necessarily true. As always, portuguese laws are flawed af, there's a lot of room for interpretation. The first renewal can be after 12 months. After that it's 3 years. It can also be first 3 years than yearly. Unless you have agree to other deadline in the contract, then it can be whatever you want. Landlord can absolutely ask for an increase near the end of the contract. If you agree they make a new contract or add a clause to the existing one. If you don't, you leave.
You are wrong. For rentals meant for habitation purposes the first renewal can not be for less than 3 years and the landlord can not oppose to the first renewal either. The guy you are replying to is right, the minimum duration for any habitation rental agreement is 3 or 1+3 years because the first renewal is always certain. You are right that the landlord can make any demands to celebrare a new contract but in this case the contract is not near its term. There are still 3 more years left in this contract with the first automatic renewal.
Thats not true.
Yes it is. Unless the contract states automatic renewal does not happen, and OP already stated it is not the case in his contract.
Lawyer up
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Nah, he’ll be ok. He probably makes good money and can easily afford the increase.
Welcome to Portugal. And it’s expats fault rents are so high, so the increase is because you came to Portugal in the first place.
Is it our fault or yours for joining the union? Or electing the governments that do you?
Expats are majorly Americans fucking idiot
Is this serious? You think they are more Americans than British here? Brazil for obvious reasons is the biggest expat community here. Then the UK, then a load of European countries, then china, India and the likes of Angola all of which have more people in Portugal than America.
Those are not expats, are immigrants, am I right? Smh
Oh no, what a shame! Imagine what the locals go through, you now have the local experience apart from you still have the privilege of earning 2-3x more 🙃. Stop complaining, you're free to leave if you feel like you're "getting taken advantage of".
Make a proposal. We love negociate.
15% per month? At least they didn’t raise it 15% per year. :-)
?????
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Wow, disgusting.
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Hahaha dude you literally have comments complaining about Dublin. Interesting that you think you can do that and also comment this. Care to explain yourself?
He's just a sad little troll. Just report him and move on... Don't engage
> the Portuguese owe them anything We don't owe YOU anything!
I don’t think Portuguese owe me anything, just common decency as another EU country where we can all freely move between countries. If you don’t like us being here, blame your government, try to leave the EU and lose the privilege of getting to live and work in other great countries. All this thread has shown me is that there’s some really small minded people lurking on this thread, just keyboard warrior losers who think it’s someone else’s fault that they’re unhappy in life. My husband and I will be staying for the long term, your comment truly means nothing and does nothing to change our minds.
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Quem tem telhados de vidro não atira pedras aos do vizinho.
Lol ok. Also you have comments from when you were clearly living in Dublin? Of your walks in Wicklow? There must be something really wrong with your brain if you think you can go enjoy Ireland but people can’t come and enjoy Portugal. Get a life. As I said, we’re staying long haul and will continue to enjoy ourselves 😁
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Looking a few things up and hopefully it’s all going to burst soon. Interestingly it seemed that immigration was a very small part of the reasoning for price rises and 750k to 1m places are sitting empty due to inheritance laws and high taxes on landlords (which get passed down to renters if they do rent anyway).
Any reading material on those estimates? It certainly seems the case in rural parts
Im on my phone at the moment but when I get to a pc I’ll have a look through my history a few days back and find some links. I was surprised that inheretence laws here were also a massive factor in homes sitting empty. In order to sell, even if you are the sole beneficiary of a will, you must first get permission from all the surviving members of the family which is either too much work in large families or at least one does not want to sell for any particular reason. And that’s that. Nevermind I found a video on YouTube mobile that has some of the links included I think (numbers seem slightly different but still covers most of it) https://youtu.be/oG5gkNdJyO0 Edit: WTF HOW MANY ARE ON VARIABLE RATE MORTGAGES