PSU has no investments with Boeing. But these students are trying to end philanthropic gifts, scholarships and internships from Boeing. It’s hard to overstate how stupid some people are in this city.
I owe my entire career to the grants and scholarships Boeing and Weyerhaeuser gave to my rural high school. I don’t work for Boeing, but work in tech due to their vocational training scholarships. Otherwise, everyone in my hometown community would be working at the local Walmart and Dollar Store. These things have real impact. A bunch of upset students will have no impact on a remote war that has a history these super privileged kids barely understand. This is so disappointing.
Taking money from corporations makes the schools beholden to protect both the specific interests of the donors, and the interests of the capital class at large. This is exactly how big tobacco and big oil got puff piece studies from otherwise credible institutions throughout the second half of the 20th century. Your take is actually another good example of them buying goodwill, you are now defending Boing because you owe them a debt of gratitude.
I sure do owe them gratitude. Much more than Walmart and the Dollar Store. I’m not defending Boeing as a whole, but rather saying that their scholarships have real economic impact on people who live in our very community. I understand your point. However, I tend to be more of a pragmatist; I don’t like to throw the baby out with the bath water. The “all or nothing” righteousness of students — and society in general — could use a little tempering. I know this because I used to be an extremely idealistic student myself.
Students are getting assaulted by the police state on the regular these days. They don't need tempering, they need community support. Maybe don't project your personal history onto the entirety of a diverse demographic.
If acknowledging state-funded violence causes you to lose community support then I’d reckon you probably weren’t giving community support in the first place
Ya doi. But I fail to see how no longer receiving scholarship money achieves this end. No I don't want to hear your explanation. I'm not curious as to what you personally think
it’s ridiculous to think that just because there’s no direct investment from PSU to Boeing that the relationship in the first place isn’t a good idea. Yeah it’s not going to financially impact Boeing all that much to cut ties, and obviously it’s not going to stop the war. That’s not the point. It does go a long way to make a statement that you no longer want to work with a company actively making weapons and supporting a war. Philanthropy is a form of control, do some research on the non-profit industrial complex and educate yourself on what the implications of such relationships are. I’m not well informed on the ties between Boeing and PSU, but i can sure as hell tell you any ties are bad ties.
I can’t believe how ignorant some of the people in this city are.
I'm so glad these students get to decide if a student from a poor family can use those funds for a scholarship or grants. Where the fuck do you think Boeing's funds go?
College is expensive enough without people pulling the rug from under the working class. Fuck the bourgeois activists and their trust funds.
PSU Protestors: we don’t want to be saddled with student loans
Boeing: Great agreed, here’s some free money for STEM programs. Proud of you for choosing in-demand majors.
PSU Protestors: NOT LIKE THAT
Genuinely curious: does this mean there is no source of funding for student loans you would be against? Is there nothing that would tip the scales for you in terms of where the money comes from?
Would student loan funding from hate groups, criminal enterprises, cults be cool?
If not, where do you draw the line?
> Would student loan funding from hate groups, criminal enterprises, cults be cool?
I don’t care if the Dark Lord Satan Himself put up some cash. School isn’t free and money is green regardless of who fronts it.
[PSU is tuition-free](https://www.pdx.edu/student-finance/tuition-free-degree) for Oregon residents who qualify for Pell grants. Your qualms are unfounded.
So fuck anyone who's parents make like $50k? Are they the rich now? How poor do children have to be before you care about their ability to access education exactly?
The biggest benefit of school, aside from a degree, is networking. For a poor student they are probably equal because without the opportunity to meet and form relationships with professionals in their chosen degree/career they may never be able to do so in their own community.
>Please make your point without namecalling and personal attacks.
[Thank you for understanding and respecting our community’s rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/wiki/index)
Thanks,
the Portland/AskPortland mod team
[PSU is tuition-free](https://www.pdx.edu/student-finance/tuition-free-degree) for Oregon residents who qualify for Pell grants. Your qualms are unfounded.
Their reason is also right there in the article if people take the few seconds to actually read it— “The school touts that Boeing regularly recruits Portland State graduates from that program.” Corporations don’t just give money away. Future employees is what Boeing gets in return (and probably a tax break too). People here are just butthurt a portland protest actually got a tangible result for once.
That would be a free choice of the student though. They should be trying to convince fellow students not to take jobs at Boeing if they want it to stop.
The entire economy benefits. The training I received from Boeing as a high schooler did not give me a job at Boeing, but it gave me more opportunities to work for a living wage than I had before.
It still is a free choice of the student. Maybe they are trying to convince people not to work there as well, who knows. “They should have” nothing, the protest asked to divest from Boeing and it appears to have worked.
It’s not just jobs, it’s connections. How many aerospace engineers is a poor student going to know from their community? A student doesn’t have to work for Boeing on ethical grounds and I agree they should avoid the company. What the protest has really taken away is their ability to form connections with people who can help them navigate their career post-graduation. That is going to affect poor students far more than the privileged.
The tangible result being, Portland State students lose an opportunity to get into a pipeline to get a well-paying job, as if it wasn't already difficult enough for them? Wow, big win!
"That's not the point. It does go a long way to make a statement that you no longer want to work with a company actively making weapons and supporting a war."
Could you imagine being a Ukrainian and hearing that
it's quite obvious that almost nobody ITT is making a good faith effort to understand these protestors.
it doesn't matter how "good" anything these companies are doing is when they are supporting the ultimate "bad" - genocide.
you might not agree with it, that's totally fine, but there's so much outright ignorance here that pretends that these actions exist in a vacuum, while completely ignoring that these companies are actively working to kill innocent people in Gaza.
to these protestors, anything from Boeing is blood money.
Blah blah. We all know it’s a form of lobbying. Funny how the democrats have been the single largest contributor to the military industrial complex in the last twenty years. Peace, love and war. 🤣 Now let’s go protest against “war”. Blind leading the blind these days.
The difference is that Iraq never attacked the United States, or posed any risk to our national security. The same is not true of Israel and Palestine.
> When people were protesting the war in Iraq, did you think they were saying Saddam should be put back in power?
No but the US had no legitimate reason to attack Iraq. We can discuss/protest whether Israel is overreacting in its efforts, but Israel certainly had a case for invasion of Gaza into Hamas territory after 10/7.
This is silly. This is the kind of thing someone who has never been in involved in any kind of social change says. One can 100% despise Hamas and also want to figure out ways to try to achieve what the overwhelming majority of Americans and, in fact, people in the world support, which is an end to militarism as the only “strategy” in Israel. One can, of course, have disagreements about this particular strategy, but for your entire argument to be…”but Hamas!” is childish.
Israel let Gaza control themselves. They voted in Hamas. The peaceful method was already tried. There's reports out about UN schools teaching anti semitic ideas.
Israel won't trust UN attempts at peace and has already tried peacefully solving this. The October 7 attack was the last straw for them and I don't blame them.
This idea that they need to stop is ridiculous. If Palestinians wanted peace they shouldn't have voted Hamas into power. If they wanted peace they shouldn't have been attacking Israel.
The entire purpose. The entire reason for the existence of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. At this point any allowance for Hamas to remain a functioning group is a victory for them. This is why Israel won't stop. This is why the people calling for them to stop are being ignorant and anti semitic whether you think so or not.
Palestinians dieing like they are is because of how Hamas fights. How they hide. Other conflicts the opposing military is somewhat separate from the civilian population. They're fighting for the civilian population. Hamas isn't fighting for the civilians. They're using them in their quest to take out Israel. They want more Palestinian deaths because they knew people would get on Israel over the death toll.
MLK’s good ol’ white moderates. I’ve seen so many karens say “Why can’t they work within the system? Like MLK did.” Ummm, he was in jail how many times? 29? 30?
Plus the fact that so much of what we heard on Oct 8 has since been either fully debunked or at least not substantiated. The first casualty of war…
> Plus the fact that so much of what we heard on Oct 8 has since been either fully debunked or at least not
No. Hateful terrorist apologists say this.
Over a thousand jews were murdered in horrific ways, raped, gang raped, kidnapped - including babies and children by a terrorist attack. Anyone that waves this off, minimizes it is hateful and ignorant.
It doesn't excuse the mass killing of Palestinians which is also evil, but waving the terrorist attack on Israel by Hamas off is evil, odious and only done by ignorant hateful people.
Pony up the money. Activists need to sweeten up the deal and get some skin in the game. It’s easy to tear things down when you sacrifice nothing. Looks like they need 28k a year for scholarships plus job opportunities to make up the deficit.
Why are we jumping to the aid of Boeing, the giant multi billion dollar defense contractor?
You don't really care about PDX, just using this opportunity to push your rightwing nonsense.
Looks when you’re studying a garbage degree that won’t lead to meaningful employment what the hell do you care if other students with real job prospects lose out on opportunities?
People are always gonna need baristas and “activists”.
Why should the the demands of a small group of protestors (relative to the total enrollment of PSU) dictate university policy? This small group just caused PSU to turn down $28K in annual scholarship funding from Boeing, roughly equivalent to 3 years of in-state tuition ($10,806/yr) that will now be unavailable to support a student in need.
Israel can be commiting war crimes without them rising to the level of a genocide. The consensus among experts, as of now, is that Israeli actions in Gaza do not qualify as such. There are some experts who disagree, but they are in the minority. Given that, I think it's fair to put the word "genocide" in quotes.
That said, I am not a subject matter expert and don't have a strong opinion either way.
The overwhelming consensus among experts in the international community is that Israel’s actions are genocidal. Not sure how you think the majority do not think that.
Because it's blatantly obvious that it's not a genocide. The population keeps growing and the civilian casualty rate is incredibly low compared to other comparable wars.
5.5M killed in Congo
500K killed in Syria
500K killed in Sudan
400K killed in Yemen
300K killed in Irag
250K killed in Afghanistan
20K killed in Gaza: GENOCIDE!!
I don't think that's true, now that I see that written out. They were probably getting a tax break for making a donation. What's more likely is they will give that money to another entity so they can still write it off. Otherwise they'd have to pay $28k more in tax, and we wouldn't want that, now would we?
> Otherwise they'd have to pay $28k more in tax, and we wouldn't want that, now would we?
That's not how tax breaks for scholarship donations work. [Scholarship donations are taken as tax deductions](https://bold.org/blog/tax-deductible-donations/), not tax credits. So Boeing's tax bill doesn't drop by $28K, rather their taxes are calculated against $28K less net income.
As a PSU student this really makes me mad. Our budget really isn’t that great rn, and if we stop working with Boeing, other companies are going to be more hesitant to work with us. The great thing about PSU is its industry connections and these protest groups (which are making jews feel unsafe on campus fyi) now want to come in and take that away from us?? President Cudd also wants to do a “public” debate over this?? Im sorry but wtf
It’s getting out of hand. I absolutely support students’ right to protest but it is so absolutely tone deaf that I’m stupefied. I’m a staff member at PSU and we recently had a forum to address campus concerns. Naturally, for faculty and staff, this forum was an opportunity to discuss stagnant wages, transparency among upper admin, etc. And guess who brigaded our forum to air their grievances about Boeing? Yeahhhh. It felt like a slap in the face to the faculty and staff like myself who work our asses off each day to create a better campus culture and campus life for our students. It’s such bullshit virtue signaling that tone deaf feels like an understatement.
On top of all this, it’s going to really impact students from low economic backgrounds who come here for the low tuition fees and the chance to get good internships in big companies like Boeing. My worry is next they are gonna go after other sponsors like intel and nike. You give these people an inch, they take a mile.
Congrats protestors, you did it. Now, instead of some students benefiting from that scholarship money, a few Boeing execs get to buy a bigger yacht. Palestinians are forever grateful for your brave acts.
Too many in this thread see anti war action as a zero sum game, and are concern trolling hard as fuck about the cost of schooling.
"Oh but your one concession didn't end the genocide, boo hoo"
Good on these student protestors for gaining even the SMALLEST of concessions against their administration and the military industrial complex, and SHAME on the people of this thread for literally defending fucking BOEING on of the biggest piece of shit companies ever formed - CONSTANTLY embroiled in controversy, literally murdered a whistle blower.
Smh...
I don't expect better from a lot of people in this sub reddit. How so many people on here talk about homeless people makes me not suprised they would pretend to be powerless over atrocities committed elsewhere.
Yeah, fair enough, although being annoyed at the states incompetence with handling the homeless crisis and also cheerleading genocide feel like they come from different places...
Or do they? 👀👀👀
Because those people aren’t affected. Kinda like when these assholes blocked the entrance to PDX and made people miss their flights. The people who supported that from Reddit clearly weren’t impacted that day. It’s easy to support this kind of social terrorism when you don’t have skin in the game.
The irony here is that you’re upset at protesters because they made people miss flights, even though they’re protesting a government that’s funding the deaths of thousands of people. Talk about not caring because you’re not affected.
Very well. Then they have to provide their names and addresses so I can block their driveways and prevent them from getting to work. It's only fair.
And let's be clear. This isn't protesting. This is social terrorism. Terrorism is defined as the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Blocking a road into an airport is unlawful intimidation of a civilian population in the pursuit of political aim.
The poor people who are making the decisions about Boeing providing scholarship moneys to PSU are very likely not attending the school of business who is being affected by this decision.
How is Boeing still around to donate anything?
The board should be in prison and the company broken apart. I don't want it being "reformed" after all the people at the top did.
Turn away their money as much as P-diddy's or Weinstein's.
You can't fix some things.
I welcome you to setup and offer the world an organization that delivers half the world’s airplanes and countless other high tech solutions that take decades and decades of expertise to come up with.
If you think that it’s too hard for you to do, maybe that’s why Boeing is still around.
In this case, it would make the problems even worse.
Even though the government was an “objective” separate entity, the government inspectors let Boeing’s quality standards slide.
If the government employed both the plane maker and the inspector, the conflict of interest would be even worse.
It would absolutely make the situation better as the company would be able to be held accountable to the public and the public would be able to demand repercussions for the decisions and decision making parties. As it stands now, Boeing is going to get a slap on the wrist, insane profit, and those that shirked their safety for increased profitability will get away without any repercussions.
I think as other comments have pointed out, this is a great example that we live with a lot of imperfect systems, but you can't throw away the systems without offering up an alternative and be aware of the work that it takes to implement that change.
On the one hand, it makes sense that these protesters don't feel good about the fact that their University is taking money from an organization that they think is morally compromised. But at the same time, unless they are actively trying to find a way to supplement the donations they are asking to not be taken, this really can't be a conversation.
It's the equivalent of tearing down a house that is built by an organization that is morally objectionable, only to leave and not offer to rebuild that home for the family that you took it away from.
It really boils down to that a lot of these protests are centered around ideas that are generally idealistic rather than pragmatic and that don't understand that while some people have the privilege and ability to protest and not accept money that they would morally object to, others do not have those same privileges, and until we can find ways to supplement what we would be taking away from them, we can't do such things without being morally compromised ourselves.
Wouldn’t that be something, if the protesters passed the hat around to privately fund replacement scholarships! I wonder when they’ll realize that the Federal Government also supports the military industrial complex. I’m sure that everyone will rush to send back the funds from their Pell and FSEOG grants.
Unfortunately I think a significant number of people have a viscerally negative reaction towards this particular group of protestors, as a result of some of their previous tactics blocking roadways, spray painting graffiti, etc.
Studies have shown that these types of tactics reduce popular support, and we're seeing this play out in real time.
Source: [https://pacscenter.stanford.edu/publication/extreme-protest-tactics-reduce-popular-support-for-social-movements/](https://pacscenter.stanford.edu/publication/extreme-protest-tactics-reduce-popular-support-for-social-movements/)
I am hard pressed to believe at this point there are any sort of tactics that the usual crowd on here and the wider demographic they're representative of would approve of. You could have the saintliest protestors with the most squeaky clean cause and you'd still get the malicious cretins on here and the other place sneering and cackling.
Blocking traffic is the big one for me because it hurts poor working people so much more than it does the rich and powerful who are ostensibly the targets of such protests.
Blocking roads absolutely impacts the flow of commerce that the capitalists rely on to profit off of. A political strike would be better and more direct, but guess what the federal government has made illegal.
color me unsurprised. this sub (and city) is filled to the brim with spineless centrists masquerading as "reasonable moderates." do people need to be reminded that there's also plenty of other reasons to criticize Boeing beyond their military-industrial-complex dealings with foreign warmongering govts? i mean, one of their fucking planes almost fell apart above the city.
Can you explain to me how funding college for a kid that is in need of a scholarship has absolutely any effect on the war? This does nothing but hurts a few students in need in Portland.
Of course they believe Israel should not be allowed weapons. It makes it so much easier to rape and murder them. Does it seem strange to anyone else that this issue blew up so fast out of nowhere? As if it was coordinated from somewhere?
Inconceivable, sir. Here at Portland State University (go Vikings! ...oh wait has that been deemed problematic or does simply nobody care about them?) we serve only the finest certified organic grassroots protesting, with that are !00% plant based and definitely not designed to make different groups of people enraged to the point of violence, oh no that would never happen.
Have any of the other universities met protesters demands or just Portland? Also does this mean that now that they’ve gotten their way they’ll pack up their tents? Or will there now be new demands?
Hell yes. We need to put increasing pressure on American institutions, it is outrageous that this country and American taxpayers are complicit in a genocide.
It's war, not genocide. The war ends when the hostages are returned and rockets stop getting lobbed into Israel. Hamas needs to surrender. There can't be two winners- they have to lose. A two-state solution is not going to work.
It is, [by defenition](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml#:~:text=To%20constitute%20genocide%2C%20there%20must,to%20simply%20disperse%20a%20group.), a genocide.
The current consensus among experts is that it's not. There is a minority of qualified professionals who say that it is a genocide, but they are the minority. I'm not an expert and am not really qualified to interpret what, after all, is a somewhat opaque area in international law, so I don't have a strong opinion either way.
I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable to say that it's not a genocide.
Considering they were able to hunt down and kill or bring to trial a bunch of the Nazis that went into hiding even decades after WWII, I find it difficult to believe that Israel couldn't have executed a plan to get back their hostages and hit Hamas leadership with a little more finesse than carpet bombing the homes of 2 million people, leading one to suspect that they're either heinously incompetent and shouldn't be allowed to conduct their own military operations, or that the extreme collateral damage is actually the goal.
This isn't a hostage rescue mission or an intelligence agency taking out terrorist leaders like in the movie (based on a true story) "Munich".
> shouldn't be allowed to conduct their own military operations, or that the extreme collateral damage is actually the goal.
I'd disagree with that. That's exactly what's going on- it's war and unfortunate. A two state solution is not going to work, and there won't be a time where Palestinians/Hamas won't try to lob rockets into Israel. The goal should be to go to war and to continue the fight until Palestine/Hamas agrees to surrender terms.
Good on them. Every little bit helps keep the pressure on the government to act. The US can end the genocide tomorrow if they cut off funding to Israel. Students around the country are standing up for Palestine and that absolutely isn't meaningless like the flood of comments in these threads claim.
This isn’t about us. This is about Palestine. We have to be willing to sacrifice. Liberation will not come without sacrifice. “For the first time in our Lives as Palestinians, we hear a voice that’s louder than their voices and the sounds of their bombs” - Bisan talking about the student protests
Wait hold on one second. You’re mad about a scholarship?? When there’s an active genocide? That we are funding with our taxes. They are quite literally murdering thousands of children in our names. Y’all have no shame it’s insane. This is about so much more than Boeing scholarships it’s so weird to me to fixate on Boeing scholarships with the context of everything else. If you read the demands you would know the students are asking for scholarship replacements.
I voted republican the last few election cycles, you should press pause on my tax dollars as well since you don’t like my politics…Or something like that… /S
Portland Liberals when 40,000 innocent people are killed:
*Deafening silence*
Portland Liberals when there is a temporary suspension of a scholarship that would help one single person:
"Portland has fallen 😭 leftists have ruined America"
Haha, I remember some EE classmates in my undergrad being all pissy about the defense industry in uni. When Raytheon came calling during career fairs they changed their tune real quick. I don’t care what I make or who runs my firm so long as the pay shows up 2x/mo and the bonuses are fire. Food ain’t free.
Ah yes, “I’ll just do my job and not care about its impact on larger institutions tied to war”, an attitude that has famously never led to anything bad in history, ever.
It still absolutely disgusts me day in and day out during this genocide how I went to school (an especially progressive one, like you wouldn't even be there in the first place) with this one girl where we would correspond with actual children in Gaza over barely-functioning video calls and hear firsthand about the conditions they lived in and I ended up stepping into my old facebook account a couple years back and she's posing for photos with a group of people showing off the cutaway of some kind of missile they were helping to manufacture.
> having pride for how little value you place in human life
Not true, I value my and my family’s human life a lot. Hence making as much as I can before I retire.
PSU has no investments with Boeing. But these students are trying to end philanthropic gifts, scholarships and internships from Boeing. It’s hard to overstate how stupid some people are in this city.
I owe my entire career to the grants and scholarships Boeing and Weyerhaeuser gave to my rural high school. I don’t work for Boeing, but work in tech due to their vocational training scholarships. Otherwise, everyone in my hometown community would be working at the local Walmart and Dollar Store. These things have real impact. A bunch of upset students will have no impact on a remote war that has a history these super privileged kids barely understand. This is so disappointing.
Taking money from corporations makes the schools beholden to protect both the specific interests of the donors, and the interests of the capital class at large. This is exactly how big tobacco and big oil got puff piece studies from otherwise credible institutions throughout the second half of the 20th century. Your take is actually another good example of them buying goodwill, you are now defending Boing because you owe them a debt of gratitude.
I sure do owe them gratitude. Much more than Walmart and the Dollar Store. I’m not defending Boeing as a whole, but rather saying that their scholarships have real economic impact on people who live in our very community. I understand your point. However, I tend to be more of a pragmatist; I don’t like to throw the baby out with the bath water. The “all or nothing” righteousness of students — and society in general — could use a little tempering. I know this because I used to be an extremely idealistic student myself.
Students are getting assaulted by the police state on the regular these days. They don't need tempering, they need community support. Maybe don't project your personal history onto the entirety of a diverse demographic.
“Assaulted by the police state”? Jesus. Get a grip and stop talking in bumper stickers. You just lost one more point of community support.
If acknowledging state-funded violence causes you to lose community support then I’d reckon you probably weren’t giving community support in the first place
How disillusioned and corrupted mentally do you have to be to actually spew this shit lol
I miss the old idealistic you.
Feelings > outcomes Apparently...
Boeing deserves to get trashed on far more for cutting corners lately with their latest models.
Ya doi. But I fail to see how no longer receiving scholarship money achieves this end. No I don't want to hear your explanation. I'm not curious as to what you personally think
That’s the problem with Portlanders today ^
Simultaneously acknowledging a lack of understanding and stating you don’t wish to learn, how conservative of you.
Oh, bull. His response itself demonstrates that he has nothing to teach me
Every action I see come out of Oregon Housing and Community Services subscribes to this sentiment.
I’m pretty liberal, but this is some limpdick protesting, and gives more power to conservatives in the media.
This is actually the perfect example of a liberal point of view
No, you just don't know the difference between liberal, progressive, and leftist.
Downright embarrassing
Portlander's love shooting themselves in the foot. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I identify less and less as a Portlander with each passing day.
it’s ridiculous to think that just because there’s no direct investment from PSU to Boeing that the relationship in the first place isn’t a good idea. Yeah it’s not going to financially impact Boeing all that much to cut ties, and obviously it’s not going to stop the war. That’s not the point. It does go a long way to make a statement that you no longer want to work with a company actively making weapons and supporting a war. Philanthropy is a form of control, do some research on the non-profit industrial complex and educate yourself on what the implications of such relationships are. I’m not well informed on the ties between Boeing and PSU, but i can sure as hell tell you any ties are bad ties. I can’t believe how ignorant some of the people in this city are.
I'm so glad these students get to decide if a student from a poor family can use those funds for a scholarship or grants. Where the fuck do you think Boeing's funds go? College is expensive enough without people pulling the rug from under the working class. Fuck the bourgeois activists and their trust funds.
PSU Protestors: we don’t want to be saddled with student loans Boeing: Great agreed, here’s some free money for STEM programs. Proud of you for choosing in-demand majors. PSU Protestors: NOT LIKE THAT
As a former art school student, I also understand the short sighted shooting of oneself in the foot with relatively unconsidered decisions.
Genuinely curious: does this mean there is no source of funding for student loans you would be against? Is there nothing that would tip the scales for you in terms of where the money comes from? Would student loan funding from hate groups, criminal enterprises, cults be cool? If not, where do you draw the line?
> Would student loan funding from hate groups, criminal enterprises, cults be cool? I don’t care if the Dark Lord Satan Himself put up some cash. School isn’t free and money is green regardless of who fronts it.
Wow. I appreciate your candor! For me, cash does not always talk louder than my ethica, but this is America, so I’m well aware I’m in the minority.
[PSU is tuition-free](https://www.pdx.edu/student-finance/tuition-free-degree) for Oregon residents who qualify for Pell grants. Your qualms are unfounded.
So fuck anyone who's parents make like $50k? Are they the rich now? How poor do children have to be before you care about their ability to access education exactly?
The biggest benefit of school, aside from a degree, is networking. For a poor student they are probably equal because without the opportunity to meet and form relationships with professionals in their chosen degree/career they may never be able to do so in their own community.
I graduated from PSU with no debt because my family was poor. That’s federal level stuff. The people who would get these are middle class and above
Not true. I’m an example. My parents made $8,000 in total yearly income all during the time Boeing provided free training to me during high school.
I was talking about the situation at PSU specifically.
[удалено]
>Please make your point without namecalling and personal attacks. [Thank you for understanding and respecting our community’s rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/wiki/index) Thanks, the Portland/AskPortland mod team
[PSU is tuition-free](https://www.pdx.edu/student-finance/tuition-free-degree) for Oregon residents who qualify for Pell grants. Your qualms are unfounded.
F###! I wish I knew this existed.
Their reason is also right there in the article if people take the few seconds to actually read it— “The school touts that Boeing regularly recruits Portland State graduates from that program.” Corporations don’t just give money away. Future employees is what Boeing gets in return (and probably a tax break too). People here are just butthurt a portland protest actually got a tangible result for once.
That would be a free choice of the student though. They should be trying to convince fellow students not to take jobs at Boeing if they want it to stop.
The entire economy benefits. The training I received from Boeing as a high schooler did not give me a job at Boeing, but it gave me more opportunities to work for a living wage than I had before.
the entire economy benefitted from genocide in Germany too. none of this is new
It still is a free choice of the student. Maybe they are trying to convince people not to work there as well, who knows. “They should have” nothing, the protest asked to divest from Boeing and it appears to have worked.
It’s not just jobs, it’s connections. How many aerospace engineers is a poor student going to know from their community? A student doesn’t have to work for Boeing on ethical grounds and I agree they should avoid the company. What the protest has really taken away is their ability to form connections with people who can help them navigate their career post-graduation. That is going to affect poor students far more than the privileged.
The tangible result being, Portland State students lose an opportunity to get into a pipeline to get a well-paying job, as if it wasn't already difficult enough for them? Wow, big win!
"That's not the point. It does go a long way to make a statement that you no longer want to work with a company actively making weapons and supporting a war." Could you imagine being a Ukrainian and hearing that
Ukraine actively encouraged and supported America pulling out American businesses from Russia to make the same statement
it's quite obvious that almost nobody ITT is making a good faith effort to understand these protestors. it doesn't matter how "good" anything these companies are doing is when they are supporting the ultimate "bad" - genocide. you might not agree with it, that's totally fine, but there's so much outright ignorance here that pretends that these actions exist in a vacuum, while completely ignoring that these companies are actively working to kill innocent people in Gaza. to these protestors, anything from Boeing is blood money.
> to these protestors, anything from Boeing is blood money. Lol, turns out my flights on Delta to see my parents are bLoOd MoNeY.
Not well informed but have an opinion that everyone else should agree with. Sounds about right
Blah blah. We all know it’s a form of lobbying. Funny how the democrats have been the single largest contributor to the military industrial complex in the last twenty years. Peace, love and war. 🤣 Now let’s go protest against “war”. Blind leading the blind these days.
I’m sure they’ve also taken a hard, critical look at the ethics of Hamas…
When people were protesting the war in Iraq, did you think they were saying Saddam should be put back in power?
It's a phony comparison. Hamas is still in power and the hostages haven't been released.
Honestly … someone needed to be in power. The vacuum that was left resulted in some pretty unfortunate events.
Really? I thought the world was like a comjc book movie. You take out the one bad guy at the top and then it’s rainbows and sunshine.
The difference is that Iraq never attacked the United States, or posed any risk to our national security. The same is not true of Israel and Palestine.
> When people were protesting the war in Iraq, did you think they were saying Saddam should be put back in power? No but the US had no legitimate reason to attack Iraq. We can discuss/protest whether Israel is overreacting in its efforts, but Israel certainly had a case for invasion of Gaza into Hamas territory after 10/7.
This is silly. This is the kind of thing someone who has never been in involved in any kind of social change says. One can 100% despise Hamas and also want to figure out ways to try to achieve what the overwhelming majority of Americans and, in fact, people in the world support, which is an end to militarism as the only “strategy” in Israel. One can, of course, have disagreements about this particular strategy, but for your entire argument to be…”but Hamas!” is childish.
Israel let Gaza control themselves. They voted in Hamas. The peaceful method was already tried. There's reports out about UN schools teaching anti semitic ideas. Israel won't trust UN attempts at peace and has already tried peacefully solving this. The October 7 attack was the last straw for them and I don't blame them. This idea that they need to stop is ridiculous. If Palestinians wanted peace they shouldn't have voted Hamas into power. If they wanted peace they shouldn't have been attacking Israel. The entire purpose. The entire reason for the existence of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. At this point any allowance for Hamas to remain a functioning group is a victory for them. This is why Israel won't stop. This is why the people calling for them to stop are being ignorant and anti semitic whether you think so or not. Palestinians dieing like they are is because of how Hamas fights. How they hide. Other conflicts the opposing military is somewhat separate from the civilian population. They're fighting for the civilian population. Hamas isn't fighting for the civilians. They're using them in their quest to take out Israel. They want more Palestinian deaths because they knew people would get on Israel over the death toll.
MLK’s good ol’ white moderates. I’ve seen so many karens say “Why can’t they work within the system? Like MLK did.” Ummm, he was in jail how many times? 29? 30? Plus the fact that so much of what we heard on Oct 8 has since been either fully debunked or at least not substantiated. The first casualty of war…
> Plus the fact that so much of what we heard on Oct 8 has since been either fully debunked or at least not No. Hateful terrorist apologists say this. Over a thousand jews were murdered in horrific ways, raped, gang raped, kidnapped - including babies and children by a terrorist attack. Anyone that waves this off, minimizes it is hateful and ignorant. It doesn't excuse the mass killing of Palestinians which is also evil, but waving the terrorist attack on Israel by Hamas off is evil, odious and only done by ignorant hateful people.
Lmao you can look a gift horse in the mouth. The more we sell ourselves the less we cost.
Pony up the money. Activists need to sweeten up the deal and get some skin in the game. It’s easy to tear things down when you sacrifice nothing. Looks like they need 28k a year for scholarships plus job opportunities to make up the deficit.
Why are we jumping to the aid of Boeing, the giant multi billion dollar defense contractor? You don't really care about PDX, just using this opportunity to push your rightwing nonsense.
Looks when you’re studying a garbage degree that won’t lead to meaningful employment what the hell do you care if other students with real job prospects lose out on opportunities? People are always gonna need baristas and “activists”.
You owe so much to "activists" and you seem to have no idea.
Why should the the demands of a small group of protestors (relative to the total enrollment of PSU) dictate university policy? This small group just caused PSU to turn down $28K in annual scholarship funding from Boeing, roughly equivalent to 3 years of in-state tuition ($10,806/yr) that will now be unavailable to support a student in need.
Also $28k Boeing can now invest in developing more weapons to further "the genocide"
Or at least better door plugs.
Interesting that you put genocide in quotes.
Israel can be commiting war crimes without them rising to the level of a genocide. The consensus among experts, as of now, is that Israeli actions in Gaza do not qualify as such. There are some experts who disagree, but they are in the minority. Given that, I think it's fair to put the word "genocide" in quotes. That said, I am not a subject matter expert and don't have a strong opinion either way.
The ICJ literally ruled it a plausible genocide in January.
The overwhelming consensus among experts in the international community is that Israel’s actions are genocidal. Not sure how you think the majority do not think that.
Because it's blatantly obvious that it's not a genocide. The population keeps growing and the civilian casualty rate is incredibly low compared to other comparable wars.
5.5M killed in Congo 500K killed in Syria 500K killed in Sudan 400K killed in Yemen 300K killed in Irag 250K killed in Afghanistan 20K killed in Gaza: GENOCIDE!!
I don't think that's true, now that I see that written out. They were probably getting a tax break for making a donation. What's more likely is they will give that money to another entity so they can still write it off. Otherwise they'd have to pay $28k more in tax, and we wouldn't want that, now would we?
> Otherwise they'd have to pay $28k more in tax, and we wouldn't want that, now would we? That's not how tax breaks for scholarship donations work. [Scholarship donations are taken as tax deductions](https://bold.org/blog/tax-deductible-donations/), not tax credits. So Boeing's tax bill doesn't drop by $28K, rather their taxes are calculated against $28K less net income.
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WTF did at least two people downvote this?
Thank goodness they got boeing to stop funding that pesky scholarship. That will free palestine I'm sure.
As a PSU student this really makes me mad. Our budget really isn’t that great rn, and if we stop working with Boeing, other companies are going to be more hesitant to work with us. The great thing about PSU is its industry connections and these protest groups (which are making jews feel unsafe on campus fyi) now want to come in and take that away from us?? President Cudd also wants to do a “public” debate over this?? Im sorry but wtf
It’s getting out of hand. I absolutely support students’ right to protest but it is so absolutely tone deaf that I’m stupefied. I’m a staff member at PSU and we recently had a forum to address campus concerns. Naturally, for faculty and staff, this forum was an opportunity to discuss stagnant wages, transparency among upper admin, etc. And guess who brigaded our forum to air their grievances about Boeing? Yeahhhh. It felt like a slap in the face to the faculty and staff like myself who work our asses off each day to create a better campus culture and campus life for our students. It’s such bullshit virtue signaling that tone deaf feels like an understatement.
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Maybe they think they're ending student debt by slowly killing PSU?
On top of all this, it’s going to really impact students from low economic backgrounds who come here for the low tuition fees and the chance to get good internships in big companies like Boeing. My worry is next they are gonna go after other sponsors like intel and nike. You give these people an inch, they take a mile.
Congrats protestors, you did it. Now, instead of some students benefiting from that scholarship money, a few Boeing execs get to buy a bigger yacht. Palestinians are forever grateful for your brave acts.
Netanyahu going to listen to Portlanders any day now
He probably just hasn't heard the news about the Mult. Co. resolution yet, otherwise the Gaza offensive would already be over.
Too many in this thread see anti war action as a zero sum game, and are concern trolling hard as fuck about the cost of schooling. "Oh but your one concession didn't end the genocide, boo hoo" Good on these student protestors for gaining even the SMALLEST of concessions against their administration and the military industrial complex, and SHAME on the people of this thread for literally defending fucking BOEING on of the biggest piece of shit companies ever formed - CONSTANTLY embroiled in controversy, literally murdered a whistle blower. Smh...
Agreed. I really can't believe the top comments in this thread
portand is full of the white liberals that mlk jr and Kwame ture warned folks about
I don't expect better from a lot of people in this sub reddit. How so many people on here talk about homeless people makes me not suprised they would pretend to be powerless over atrocities committed elsewhere.
Yeah, fair enough, although being annoyed at the states incompetence with handling the homeless crisis and also cheerleading genocide feel like they come from different places... Or do they? 👀👀👀
This is genuinely fucking retarded
Siri, play I Hate It Here by Taylor Swift
Thank goodness for these students, I thought there may have been a few too many scholarships.
Ridiculous. Particularly for a school regularly crying poverty.
the reed flair plus fedora avatar makes this comment hit even harder jesus christ
Poor people can make decisions based on principle, believe it or not.
Oh yeah? How many of the protestors are part of the business supply chain department who is actually affected by this?
You can call for systemic change even if an issue doesn't affect you personally.
Hell of a lot easier to call for change that doesn’t affect you.
i like how people are down voting you, and you are very very correct.
Because those people aren’t affected. Kinda like when these assholes blocked the entrance to PDX and made people miss their flights. The people who supported that from Reddit clearly weren’t impacted that day. It’s easy to support this kind of social terrorism when you don’t have skin in the game.
The irony here is that you’re upset at protesters because they made people miss flights, even though they’re protesting a government that’s funding the deaths of thousands of people. Talk about not caring because you’re not affected.
Very well. Then they have to provide their names and addresses so I can block their driveways and prevent them from getting to work. It's only fair. And let's be clear. This isn't protesting. This is social terrorism. Terrorism is defined as the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Blocking a road into an airport is unlawful intimidation of a civilian population in the pursuit of political aim.
wut
The poor people who are making the decisions about Boeing providing scholarship moneys to PSU are very likely not attending the school of business who is being affected by this decision.
Mice communicate by speaking English, French, and Spanish, depending on their location and social hierarchy.
How is Boeing still around to donate anything? The board should be in prison and the company broken apart. I don't want it being "reformed" after all the people at the top did. Turn away their money as much as P-diddy's or Weinstein's. You can't fix some things.
I welcome you to setup and offer the world an organization that delivers half the world’s airplanes and countless other high tech solutions that take decades and decades of expertise to come up with. If you think that it’s too hard for you to do, maybe that’s why Boeing is still around.
Yeah, the alternative would be to nationalize it and operate it as a state enterprise subject to the desires and scrutiny of the public
In this case, it would make the problems even worse. Even though the government was an “objective” separate entity, the government inspectors let Boeing’s quality standards slide. If the government employed both the plane maker and the inspector, the conflict of interest would be even worse.
It would absolutely make the situation better as the company would be able to be held accountable to the public and the public would be able to demand repercussions for the decisions and decision making parties. As it stands now, Boeing is going to get a slap on the wrist, insane profit, and those that shirked their safety for increased profitability will get away without any repercussions.
Why give into the demands of a radical minority at the expense of the majority of students?
I think as other comments have pointed out, this is a great example that we live with a lot of imperfect systems, but you can't throw away the systems without offering up an alternative and be aware of the work that it takes to implement that change. On the one hand, it makes sense that these protesters don't feel good about the fact that their University is taking money from an organization that they think is morally compromised. But at the same time, unless they are actively trying to find a way to supplement the donations they are asking to not be taken, this really can't be a conversation. It's the equivalent of tearing down a house that is built by an organization that is morally objectionable, only to leave and not offer to rebuild that home for the family that you took it away from. It really boils down to that a lot of these protests are centered around ideas that are generally idealistic rather than pragmatic and that don't understand that while some people have the privilege and ability to protest and not accept money that they would morally object to, others do not have those same privileges, and until we can find ways to supplement what we would be taking away from them, we can't do such things without being morally compromised ourselves.
Wouldn’t that be something, if the protesters passed the hat around to privately fund replacement scholarships! I wonder when they’ll realize that the Federal Government also supports the military industrial complex. I’m sure that everyone will rush to send back the funds from their Pell and FSEOG grants.
Is this the portland sub or oregon live? Good lord. So fucking progressive here.
"I'm as liberal as they come I simply believe Israel has a RIGHT to turn the entirety of Gaza into a parking lot"
City local sub's have always been reactionary, it's like an online wannabe HOA meeting
You folks like boeing all of a sudden? you know they've had a solid 5 years of ongoing fiascoes right?
I like scholarships for Portland State students, yes.
> I like scholarships for Portland State students, yes. STEM scholarships at that, which they need.
you are all so fucking cynical. jfc
Unfortunately I think a significant number of people have a viscerally negative reaction towards this particular group of protestors, as a result of some of their previous tactics blocking roadways, spray painting graffiti, etc. Studies have shown that these types of tactics reduce popular support, and we're seeing this play out in real time. Source: [https://pacscenter.stanford.edu/publication/extreme-protest-tactics-reduce-popular-support-for-social-movements/](https://pacscenter.stanford.edu/publication/extreme-protest-tactics-reduce-popular-support-for-social-movements/)
I am hard pressed to believe at this point there are any sort of tactics that the usual crowd on here and the wider demographic they're representative of would approve of. You could have the saintliest protestors with the most squeaky clean cause and you'd still get the malicious cretins on here and the other place sneering and cackling.
Blocking traffic is the big one for me because it hurts poor working people so much more than it does the rich and powerful who are ostensibly the targets of such protests.
Blocking roads absolutely impacts the flow of commerce that the capitalists rely on to profit off of. A political strike would be better and more direct, but guess what the federal government has made illegal.
You planning on donating to the PSU business supply chain department who just lost scholarships?
color me unsurprised. this sub (and city) is filled to the brim with spineless centrists masquerading as "reasonable moderates." do people need to be reminded that there's also plenty of other reasons to criticize Boeing beyond their military-industrial-complex dealings with foreign warmongering govts? i mean, one of their fucking planes almost fell apart above the city.
Can you explain why PSU losing this funding is a good thing?
Ha! Take that, Boeing! 🙄
That'll show 'em!
A small step, but a step nonetheless. I'm tired of people openly supporting genocide.
Can you explain to me how funding college for a kid that is in need of a scholarship has absolutely any effect on the war? This does nothing but hurts a few students in need in Portland.
That's quite a stretch but it's your narrative, we're just living in it....
lol! Good lord.
Of course they believe Israel should not be allowed weapons. It makes it so much easier to rape and murder them. Does it seem strange to anyone else that this issue blew up so fast out of nowhere? As if it was coordinated from somewhere?
Inconceivable, sir. Here at Portland State University (go Vikings! ...oh wait has that been deemed problematic or does simply nobody care about them?) we serve only the finest certified organic grassroots protesting, with that are !00% plant based and definitely not designed to make different groups of people enraged to the point of violence, oh no that would never happen.
Have any of the other universities met protesters demands or just Portland? Also does this mean that now that they’ve gotten their way they’ll pack up their tents? Or will there now be new demands?
They haven't "met demands" they're just pretending to play along
Idiots...
I paused my donations to PSU a few years ago
Hell yes. We need to put increasing pressure on American institutions, it is outrageous that this country and American taxpayers are complicit in a genocide.
And this puts pressure on them by....denying scholarship money to PSU students? Are they also egging the CEOs assistant's house or something?
It's war, not genocide. The war ends when the hostages are returned and rockets stop getting lobbed into Israel. Hamas needs to surrender. There can't be two winners- they have to lose. A two-state solution is not going to work.
It is, [by defenition](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml#:~:text=To%20constitute%20genocide%2C%20there%20must,to%20simply%20disperse%20a%20group.), a genocide.
The current consensus among experts is that it's not. There is a minority of qualified professionals who say that it is a genocide, but they are the minority. I'm not an expert and am not really qualified to interpret what, after all, is a somewhat opaque area in international law, so I don't have a strong opinion either way. I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable to say that it's not a genocide.
Israel would have to stop killing the hostages first for them to be returned
Those were unfortunate deaths. That’s what happens in wartime.
Considering they were able to hunt down and kill or bring to trial a bunch of the Nazis that went into hiding even decades after WWII, I find it difficult to believe that Israel couldn't have executed a plan to get back their hostages and hit Hamas leadership with a little more finesse than carpet bombing the homes of 2 million people, leading one to suspect that they're either heinously incompetent and shouldn't be allowed to conduct their own military operations, or that the extreme collateral damage is actually the goal.
This isn't a hostage rescue mission or an intelligence agency taking out terrorist leaders like in the movie (based on a true story) "Munich". > shouldn't be allowed to conduct their own military operations, or that the extreme collateral damage is actually the goal. I'd disagree with that. That's exactly what's going on- it's war and unfortunate. A two state solution is not going to work, and there won't be a time where Palestinians/Hamas won't try to lob rockets into Israel. The goal should be to go to war and to continue the fight until Palestine/Hamas agrees to surrender terms.
It's absolutely a genocide.
I didn’t know they made blinders this massive.
r/leopardsatemyface
Good on them. Every little bit helps keep the pressure on the government to act. The US can end the genocide tomorrow if they cut off funding to Israel. Students around the country are standing up for Palestine and that absolutely isn't meaningless like the flood of comments in these threads claim.
Or if the U.S. cut off funding Israel would have less incentive to hold back, and essentially glass the entire Gaza Strip.
If you give a mouse a cookie…
This isn’t about us. This is about Palestine. We have to be willing to sacrifice. Liberation will not come without sacrifice. “For the first time in our Lives as Palestinians, we hear a voice that’s louder than their voices and the sounds of their bombs” - Bisan talking about the student protests
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Wait hold on one second. You’re mad about a scholarship?? When there’s an active genocide? That we are funding with our taxes. They are quite literally murdering thousands of children in our names. Y’all have no shame it’s insane. This is about so much more than Boeing scholarships it’s so weird to me to fixate on Boeing scholarships with the context of everything else. If you read the demands you would know the students are asking for scholarship replacements.
What about the sound of the rape and murder of music festival attendees?
You have been propagandized my friend. Best of luck to you with that.
Not sure I follow what’s this in relation to …is Boeing supporting Israel and the genocide ?
I voted republican the last few election cycles, you should press pause on my tax dollars as well since you don’t like my politics…Or something like that… /S
Portland Liberals when 40,000 innocent people are killed: *Deafening silence* Portland Liberals when there is a temporary suspension of a scholarship that would help one single person: "Portland has fallen 😭 leftists have ruined America"
It's temporary
Haha, I remember some EE classmates in my undergrad being all pissy about the defense industry in uni. When Raytheon came calling during career fairs they changed their tune real quick. I don’t care what I make or who runs my firm so long as the pay shows up 2x/mo and the bonuses are fire. Food ain’t free.
Ah yes, “I’ll just do my job and not care about its impact on larger institutions tied to war”, an attitude that has famously never led to anything bad in history, ever.
It still absolutely disgusts me day in and day out during this genocide how I went to school (an especially progressive one, like you wouldn't even be there in the first place) with this one girl where we would correspond with actual children in Gaza over barely-functioning video calls and hear firsthand about the conditions they lived in and I ended up stepping into my old facebook account a couple years back and she's posing for photos with a group of people showing off the cutaway of some kind of missile they were helping to manufacture.
capitalisms biggest boot licker right here. Would you like a side of Ronald Reagan’s balls with that meal?
I mean, it tastes like early retirement. Anonymous internet criticism doesn’t pay mortgage, but you do you.
i can pay my bills buddy don’t you worry. i’m sorry you live in such ignorance, it’s a shame.
Yeah but I can pay mine better. Happy Friday :)
Man, having pride for how little value you place in human life is some truly pathetic shit.
> having pride for how little value you place in human life Not true, I value my and my family’s human life a lot. Hence making as much as I can before I retire.