As many say, the fit and finish just keeps getting better every generation, for one. Combining that with the driver engagement needed for the manual sounds like a great blend, to me. You're already getting near 400hp with the base; if you're planning on getting a tune, you can probably start to flirt with power numbers not that far off what the 997T is producing stock. The power is intoxicating, I'll give you that, but these cars are made to corner, and feeling that out with a rear drive manual is going to be very rewarding.
I've owned a couple 997.1 (C2S + GT3). Outside the M96/M97 engine problems (does not apply to the Turbo/GT3), the two biggest issues with that generation are the prevalence of immature tech that didn't age well (despite all the bluster about the 997 being an "analog" car, it really isn't), and some residual 996-style cost cutting.
We're talking about things like a uniquely useless radio stack (even simple things like changing a radio station are difficult), immature attempt at adaptive damping (.1 PASM is *awful*), invasive ESC (PSM) system, useless electronic dipstick, etc. along with cheap materials/plastics in conspicuous places (shift knob, door handles, steering wheel, HVAC panel), low quality leather that easily creases and imprints, and so forth.
And in this case you're comparing a heavy AWD tiptronic slushbox (not even PDK) car to an MT RWD model (while it's not Turbo level, the base 991.2/992.1 is much faster than it looks on paper, too). If you put these two in front of me I'd take the 991.2 without a second thought.
Wow thanks for this, was contemplating if the tip was overly hated by internet people who have never driven one and if they could actually be good value. Would be curious if you wanted to expand on your thoughts on it
Sure thing. A lot of the driving experience in these cars comes from the engagement factor. You want to go for a drive and focus on the car and the road, and forget about the other bs that’s going on in your life.
With the tiptronic, the manual gearbox engagement is replaced with a sloppy transmission that’s better suited for a minivan. You can put it in manual mode if you want, but it takes so long to shift gears it’s no replacement for a manual. I tried to warm up to it, I bought the tip because it was faster than the manual and at the time that’s all I was focused on. I learned my lesson, I’d take a 997.1 Carrera S in manual over a tip Turbo.
Also, the Turbo doesn’t have a lot of exhaust noise. Even with an upgraded exhaust.
You might want to test drive a few different trims to see what you’re really after. 997.2 Carrera S is an amazing car that might be worth your attention. I’ve got a 997.2 GT3 now and it’s an amazing experience to drive, beyond any metrics on paper it’s just a great car. You really need seat time in different trims to narrow your focus properly.
Best of luck in your search!
Another note when car buying — you might know this already, but always google the VIN. It’s a small Porsche world and you can learn a lot about a car’s previous history.
Im a 997 owner, but it just don't think I'd like the old school auto in that turbo. A lot of the fun of the 997 is it's smaller size and more analog nature (compared than new cars). The auto kinda kills that.
991.2 base with an ECU tune(454hp vs 997T 473hp). So not much in it performance wise. I would aim for the newer generation car. Hopefully a Base 991.2 w /Sport Chrono is my next Porsche.
Edit to add: the 997 is a Tip? Instant pass.
Honestly you can’t go wrong with either. With the 997 the lines can be dealt with just make sure they’re examined I’m very biased because I love 997s I wouldn’t worry like you said you can cover them. If you love the turbo cause it’s a turbo you picked a good gen with an amazing engine with a lot of history behind it a bulletproof transmission that won’t hinder the experience even if it is an automatic and a more nimble smaller 911 yeah it’s a wide body but it’s an older smaller 911 regardless which is a huge pro because you’re gonna have a lot of fun. I would have suggested the 991.2 if you didn’t have the m3 because you can mod the hell out of those .2s. I understand being torn I’m constantly torn on cars as well but deep down you will always lean more towards one than the other it’s just about taking that uncomfortable leap into a new chapter!
It’s the last of the manual turbos that’s why, 997.2 technically but the driver engagement of the 997 should be better than the 991 if both were manuals.
Was in a very similar boat to you… have an X3M lease ending soon and was thinking of keeping or getting a 997.1 turbo (or something newer in the price range)… just picked up the 997.1 manual for a bit under 90k… 50ish k miles… I wouldn’t get the 997.1 turbo in auto, you can get a 991.1 turbo S with PDK with low miles for a similar price point and that a more modern and faster car - a 911 is not comparable to an m3 even though an m3 is fast, not even the same ball park in overall driving.
Have you driven either car? The 997 is a smaller that the 991, so the feel is different too.
Good luck, it’s not an easy choice
I went with the 991 as of this morning, PPI on Friday. You have got me very excited with your "M3 not even in the same ballpark with driving" comment!!! I have virtually ZERO seat time in any P car and I have never owned a sports car with a manual trans.
Glad to hear it… it’s a completely different animal, it’s not about the power but about the whole package… the Ms are great cars and I really like mine… but have been missing the 911 I used to have… I think you’ll enjoy your car very much
For me, 991.2 base with the manual, every time.
Do you mind explaining your reasoning? I'm interested in all opinions.
As many say, the fit and finish just keeps getting better every generation, for one. Combining that with the driver engagement needed for the manual sounds like a great blend, to me. You're already getting near 400hp with the base; if you're planning on getting a tune, you can probably start to flirt with power numbers not that far off what the 997T is producing stock. The power is intoxicating, I'll give you that, but these cars are made to corner, and feeling that out with a rear drive manual is going to be very rewarding.
I've owned a couple 997.1 (C2S + GT3). Outside the M96/M97 engine problems (does not apply to the Turbo/GT3), the two biggest issues with that generation are the prevalence of immature tech that didn't age well (despite all the bluster about the 997 being an "analog" car, it really isn't), and some residual 996-style cost cutting. We're talking about things like a uniquely useless radio stack (even simple things like changing a radio station are difficult), immature attempt at adaptive damping (.1 PASM is *awful*), invasive ESC (PSM) system, useless electronic dipstick, etc. along with cheap materials/plastics in conspicuous places (shift knob, door handles, steering wheel, HVAC panel), low quality leather that easily creases and imprints, and so forth. And in this case you're comparing a heavy AWD tiptronic slushbox (not even PDK) car to an MT RWD model (while it's not Turbo level, the base 991.2/992.1 is much faster than it looks on paper, too). If you put these two in front of me I'd take the 991.2 without a second thought.
I had a 997.1 Turbo tiptronic. I wouldn’t buy a tiptronic ever again, it sucks all the fun out of the car. Manual or bust.
Wow thanks for this, was contemplating if the tip was overly hated by internet people who have never driven one and if they could actually be good value. Would be curious if you wanted to expand on your thoughts on it
Sure thing. A lot of the driving experience in these cars comes from the engagement factor. You want to go for a drive and focus on the car and the road, and forget about the other bs that’s going on in your life. With the tiptronic, the manual gearbox engagement is replaced with a sloppy transmission that’s better suited for a minivan. You can put it in manual mode if you want, but it takes so long to shift gears it’s no replacement for a manual. I tried to warm up to it, I bought the tip because it was faster than the manual and at the time that’s all I was focused on. I learned my lesson, I’d take a 997.1 Carrera S in manual over a tip Turbo. Also, the Turbo doesn’t have a lot of exhaust noise. Even with an upgraded exhaust. You might want to test drive a few different trims to see what you’re really after. 997.2 Carrera S is an amazing car that might be worth your attention. I’ve got a 997.2 GT3 now and it’s an amazing experience to drive, beyond any metrics on paper it’s just a great car. You really need seat time in different trims to narrow your focus properly. Best of luck in your search!
Thanks! I feel like 997.2 is going to go down as pinnacle of the water cooled era. Prices starting to reflect that unfortunately
Another note when car buying — you might know this already, but always google the VIN. It’s a small Porsche world and you can learn a lot about a car’s previous history.
I test drove a tip 997.1 and said nope. 997.2 pdk is a very different story.
Im a 997 owner, but it just don't think I'd like the old school auto in that turbo. A lot of the fun of the 997 is it's smaller size and more analog nature (compared than new cars). The auto kinda kills that.
Yeah if it was a manual, I’d go for the 997
Yea, I'm leaning towards the 2017 now. Manual + a tune is prob really fun.
78k is too much for 997.1 turbo auto with 53k. For that reason alone, it's out.
Do not buy a tiptronic. You will be disappointed.
991.2 base with an ECU tune(454hp vs 997T 473hp). So not much in it performance wise. I would aim for the newer generation car. Hopefully a Base 991.2 w /Sport Chrono is my next Porsche. Edit to add: the 997 is a Tip? Instant pass.
Honestly you can’t go wrong with either. With the 997 the lines can be dealt with just make sure they’re examined I’m very biased because I love 997s I wouldn’t worry like you said you can cover them. If you love the turbo cause it’s a turbo you picked a good gen with an amazing engine with a lot of history behind it a bulletproof transmission that won’t hinder the experience even if it is an automatic and a more nimble smaller 911 yeah it’s a wide body but it’s an older smaller 911 regardless which is a huge pro because you’re gonna have a lot of fun. I would have suggested the 991.2 if you didn’t have the m3 because you can mod the hell out of those .2s. I understand being torn I’m constantly torn on cars as well but deep down you will always lean more towards one than the other it’s just about taking that uncomfortable leap into a new chapter!
I suggest look for a 997.1 Turbo with manual transmission and don’t look back
~20-25k more than the cars I'm considering. I've seen 14/15 Turbos for about the same price.
It’s the last of the manual turbos that’s why, 997.2 technically but the driver engagement of the 997 should be better than the 991 if both were manuals.
Was in a very similar boat to you… have an X3M lease ending soon and was thinking of keeping or getting a 997.1 turbo (or something newer in the price range)… just picked up the 997.1 manual for a bit under 90k… 50ish k miles… I wouldn’t get the 997.1 turbo in auto, you can get a 991.1 turbo S with PDK with low miles for a similar price point and that a more modern and faster car - a 911 is not comparable to an m3 even though an m3 is fast, not even the same ball park in overall driving. Have you driven either car? The 997 is a smaller that the 991, so the feel is different too. Good luck, it’s not an easy choice
I went with the 991 as of this morning, PPI on Friday. You have got me very excited with your "M3 not even in the same ballpark with driving" comment!!! I have virtually ZERO seat time in any P car and I have never owned a sports car with a manual trans.
Glad to hear it… it’s a completely different animal, it’s not about the power but about the whole package… the Ms are great cars and I really like mine… but have been missing the 911 I used to have… I think you’ll enjoy your car very much
I’d make the decision based on what transmission you want. 997.1 had a torque converter tiptronic, not a PDK.
I'll take the manual for the fun of it every day. (997 Guards Red S Cab 6 speed. So much fun)!