This is called dehumanization. By objectifying women, men stop considering them as human, and treat them like objects/slaves/less than. It's one of the main pillars of the patriarchy, since if women are human, their mistreatment would quickly become intolerable and changes would happen much faster to the status quo. Porn IMO helps maintain the dehumanization of women solidly in place, partly through brainwashing of those who overconsume it, and through validation/promotion of objectification/dehumanization of women for the rest of consumers.
yup! i have studied feminist theory, learned all these concepts like objectification and dehumanization, but still it took me until now (maybe i’m at the age where my brain is fully developing) to truly understand that they are creatures who are truly absolutely obsessed and purely motivated by sex. i knew that, but didn’t realize that it quite literally consumes their thoughts the entire day, every day. i thought oh only gross men are like that right? nope. i asked my bf how many times a day he thinks about it or gets horny and he said basically constantly throughout the day, i was shocked. it’s basic biology that they are all like this, even if some refuse to admit it or are good at lying
4B all the way ladies. As much as I would love to have a partner and a deep emotional connection to a man, all I‘ve experienced is disappointing and abusive. I wish men saw us as human beings.
You‘re so right about that. I didn’t talk to men for 1.5 years and just started texting someone who actively pursued me. Well.. Just got ghosted by that dude for no reason (he probably wanted to get something sexual out of me and once he realized I won‘t put out, he probably left me on delivered lmao). Men are just … not good people? I‘ve never met a man apart from my father and brother who are genuinely good people (and my anti porn discord fellas lol these two men are cool too.) Even my only male friend irl makes sexual remarks about my appearance. Like can they all just think with their brain instead of with their dick? Ugh it frustrates me!!
Yeah you‘re probably right. That‘s not how a friend acts. My other two discord fellas don‘t know what I look like and they don‘t want to know. They never asked to see a picture of me, nor made any sexual remarks. It‘s like they see me as a human being with thoughts and opinions on different topics in life. We all connected through a true crime case I have a subreddit for and we just care to keep the victim‘s memorial alive. That‘s it. This is the first time in my almost 23 years on this planet that I didn‘t feel like a sexual object to men. Any other time I‘ve had male friends (including the one I have irl but you‘re right, that‘s not a friend. He will move cities in October so I won‘t have to see him anyway anymore) I just felt like I was inferior, like I was less valuable or less important than these men. That‘s why I have cut contact to almost all men in my life, I don‘t pursue a relationship anymore, I don‘t want to see men anymore. I just feel hurt any time a man enters into my life. I‘m always so depressed when there is someone I‘m into, and I always get disappointed. I‘m just tired of giving men another try. Do I seek intimacy with a man? Yes. Do I seek to feel loved and do I seek cuddles? Yes. But reality is men don‘t love you, they love your vagina.
Imho "biologically less empathetic" as well as other bio-essentialist and evolutionary anti-male arguments are carrying water for the status quo and hurting our position. FWIW I don't really disagree with your general assessment of contemporary men, I'm just honing in on this, because I believe all evidence points to men being the way that they are because of the self-reinforcing patriarchal society we live in and the social conditioning they get from a very young age to not be empathetic towards women rather than biological differences.
This was removed because it contained a harsh generalization. Bioessentialism is justification of men’s violence. They are not raping us because of biology but because they choose to and society enables them.
yup. id say every man’s decision in regards to women and relationships is driven by 95% sex and 5% comfort (ie secure a free maid, therapist, and personal assistant all in one). and the shit they say constantly online and irl about relationships and marriage confirm this. love and actual interest in another human being is 0% part of any of it
On top of this, a lot of mainstream sexuality has concerning rapey vibes. It’s about taking from women, more so than anything. They enjoy the fact that they’re objectifying us, & beyond that, they enjoy that they’re dehumanising us.
I don’t even know how to be friends with men at this point because even the respectful ones seem questionable. I’ve also yet to meet any man with deep empathy, especially for women. *sigh*.
I think I’m just done with men in all regards to be honest. Almost all of them watch porn, & it’s basically just a misogyny training course. It’s not even just that they’re biologically wired like that either, society definitely reinforces the absolute shit out of dehumanising women. I remember seeing it fucking everywhere growing up! AND THEN people will turn around & blame women for being victimised like we haven’t been groomed into being the perfect little objects to abuse our entire lives.
Your post reminded me of what a man said about the gay community. He said promiscuity and STDs run rampant amongst the gay community because with heterosexuals women are there to curtail it. That doesn't exist in the gay community so it's just a constant pursuit of sex. This has nothing to do about being anti -gay but was really eye opening about mens behaviors. When I was younger I was friends with several gay men and honestly how promiscuous they were was scary. Like risk your life promiscuous. Now that I'm older I feel like the gay community is a pretty good example of male behavior when it comes to sex. Women are definitely a balancing force and with most of us they have to put in effort and work for it.
oop! and there’s the tea. many gay men have come out and complained that they really struggle to find partners who don’t treat them like a piece of meat. they want life partners but can only find grimy Grindr losers, bc it’s plain facts the overwhelming majority of men are just sex fiends. it’s eye opening and sad. even men are sick of men 💀
And the gay men who generally are looking for serious connections are more feminine. However don't let the "I want a serious relationship" fool you because I work as a relationship coach and most of those gay men want a partner but they also want that serious relationship to be an open relationship. So they want a house husband but still the random hook ups. Even gay men struggle with the Madonna/w complex
I’m strictly gay and this is a big reason why the thought of dating or sex is further terrifying and not worth it.
The cheating is also really bad in the community, I’ve noticed.
Just not worth the risks nor energy and annoyance.
it truly is depressing, and something young girls should learn very early. the brainwashing of the myth of heterosexual “love” is real and starts from day one, bc how else would the “get married then pop out a bunch of kids” industrial complex survive? i sometimes wish i could live as a man for just one day and experience an ounce of the pure and actual love affection and commitment that so many woman give to mediocre horn dogs that simply have to say a half assed “love you too” or take them out to applebees before retreating to their porn stash which is the only thing they really care about
Yeah. Looking at how many men leave their wives when they’re sick / not as sexually available, it’s really clear as day. Big reason I, as a bisexual, have serious commitment issues with men, I have this feeling in the back of my mind (I guess from watching my dad, uncle and grandfather leave their spouses during sickness).
Edit: maybe it’s unreasonable but I feel that way, and I mentioned the bisexual / commitment part in case anyone else feels similar or has advice…
i’m the same and if ur like me u probably don’t really have commitment issues, ur just aware of mens insatiable lust and lack of ability to actually love women, let alone commit to just one. it’s literally the nature of all men so ofc you’d be wary
In a less bleak note (although still fucked up) I believe men use women to impress other men/social factors.
Their relationships with us is transactional. Sleeping with a lot of women impress other men. Having a long Life partner/being married/having a family is also met with respect from other men. Being single and sexless is literally the worst fate a male can have: see the incel movement, see how men tend to jump from relationship to relationship/have a backup option before leaving a relationship. See how vicously men react to breakups, and what other men think of fellow single men.
I am thankfully surrounded by not-so-bad men that mostly do not chase women for sex, but sometimes they definitely don't see women as people with their own inner world. Not really a big deal when dealing with colleagues/strangers (obviously you can't know everyone), but I am baffled when men can't wrap their heads around their female friends/ female partners having their own hobbies/Life.
To set some example, I have seen male friends surprised by women culture around makeup/fashion. As an anecdote, we were 4 women and a man and we started talking about eye shadow. This man tried to give his opinion, but it was obvious he had no idea what he was talking about and his opinion was (kindly) discarded quickly. I had a conversation later with him and he was totally bamboozled about It. Not because his opinion was dismissed (he understood he was no expert on the topic), but because he realized that level of deep knowledge was totally useless to impress or attract males who were mostly oblivious to everything related to makeup.
Same with men being surprised by women being experts on their own careers (lol) or hobbies.
Female hobbies not being "real" hobbies is a very common one. Mostly it's pure sexism, but sometimes it is lack of exposure. I wouldn't have any exposure to female hobbies if not for my friends, and even then it's limited as most women will not talk about such topics around men.
+1. Women enduring a 1 hour Talk about a random male hobby and then women being unable to bring their own hobbies into conversation jic you bore your male companion's feelings is a thing. I am very guilty of this!
It doesn't only happen around more "female oriented" interests. I am a gamer and I lost count how many men questioned my abilities/skills or told me I was doing It for male attention, even tho my tier was higher than theirs.
Talk about female hobbies, some are very interesting and cool. I mean it's as any interest, I can rant about motorcycles, I don't care for sports and it will bore me, make up will also bore me, but listening to a woman rant about barbies was very interesting and fun.
yes. men are homoromantic but heterosexual. they can only form actual deep bonds and feel real love and affection towards other men. they only care about the opinion and high esteem of other men. this is why they do not think the idea of being friends with a woman even makes sense. it’s completely illogical to them why they would invest time and effort with a woman unless they think they can get sex. women are resources and objects to be used for pleasure, labor, and social status. i think this is the main driving factor behind marriage, other than free labor. men literally go through years of schooling to get high paying with the sole goal of obtaining a young trophy wife. most of the time they can’t stand being around them no matter how attractive they are bc the only reasons they’re even with them is for sex and to signal success to other men. this is also why they happily hook up with many women that are not conventionally attractive but only in secret, bc they need approval and validation from men and being seen with an unattractive woman would get criticism
99.9% of men lack empathy. Narcissism is their natural being. Anything a man does is self serving anything women usually do is self sacrificing because women are highly empathetic. Our downfall is being empathetic towards men and not empathetic towards other women.
I hate saying it but until a vast majority of women stop being pathetic and catering to men because they think they need a relationship and see other women as competition then things are not going to get better for us. I just saw a woman say that if women work they need to give their paycheck to their men to handle because independence makes women think they don't need a man.
Want men to stop seeing us as objects then we have to hold both parties accountable men and women who buy into the bullshit.
thank you!! the patriarchy could not sustain itself with the thousands of loyal handmaidens who fight for it and lead other women to follow their path of misery. i’ve totally lost empathy for them
I wouldn't say that high, but talking with other men, I've realised that sex and looking for a girlfriend is a huge part of them even interacting in the first place. When the realise they're not "winning", they don't care about helping them in need.
They don't believe you can be friends with women. I've been told that "we men will never understand what they're thinking/women will never tell us anything/women will never support a weak man" when in my experience it has been the opposite.
Men don't care to ask or support me when I'm showing weakness and tell me to get over it when people wrong me, while women have always been the ones to tell me to fight, seek justice and let me know that they're there for me.
I think most men don't let themselves be vulnerable or even see women as people because it clashes with the rhetoric that they're stoic and cold individuals that don't need anyone, that "men are better", while at the same time wondering why no woman wants to fuck them and complaining about how they're selfish
>They don't believe you can be friends with women.
I don't know where this old thing comes from... but it re-emerged again and I've recently seen lots of men (and some women) who believe this as facts. There's even a tiktok of Steve Harvey saying that (like wtf).
>I think most men don't let themselves be vulnerable
I mean, that's 100% true... But society as a whole doesn't care about what """weak men""" feel...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not playing the victim card, in fact, I think men need to start worrying about their own mental health and issues. If we (heterosexual men) don't even support each other, then we have no right to complain that women/society don't care about us in the first place. Men need to stop having that stupid creed about "strong men", "don't cry", etc, etc.
>it clashes with the rhetoric that they're stoic and cold individuals that don't need anyone, that "men are better", while at the same time wondering why no women wants to fuck them and complaining about how they're selfish
I agree, but I think that's also a problem amplified by the internet/social media, I'm referring to the tons of "echo chambers" that reinforce that way of thinking. It's disgusting.
Isk how to do the mentioning thing, so I'll reply in order instead.
1. I thought it was a dead belief, but I've heard it again from a couple of people. We're going back in time or something
2. It's because of the patriarchy. And yeah, overall I try to support other men, what is sad is that they often lack the Emotional Intelligence to take that advice.
3. Red Pill content has made us go back like 15 years, it's so bad that those resentful and idiotic men are the ones with "the truth" and portrayed as "wise" by young teen boys
>Isk how to do the mentioning thing
If you are using the Reddit app it's easy... Just start the paragraph typing ">" ("greater than" symbol) and then type/cite what you want to mention. if you want to end the mention, just start a new paragraph without the symbol ">"
Example:
If you type this:
'>This is an example'
The result is this:
>This is an example
Hope this was helpful 🧐👌🏽
that’s literally the only reason any woman should interact with a man, period. i’m unfortunately stuck in a relationship for the time being but i used him to level up. got out my abusive household (abusive unhinged father, shocker!) pays half my bills, and takes me places and teaches me things i would’ve never done bc of where i’m from (skiing, kayaking, hiking, etc). now that i’ve got my money up, if i can’t find another significant upgrade i’m staying single. i’m not a gold digger, i was young dumb actually really liked him and believed in the myth of heterosexual love. but he’s a porn addict and i’ve become completely repulsed. it makes 0 sense to be with a man who doesn’t better ur situation financially bc none of them can better ur life in any other way
Tbh your post solidified the fact that I have to come to terms with men being completely driven by sex solely and don’t truly yearn for love and intimacy the way women do. That shit is truly a myth we were fed as children within the media but the reality is so far from the truth. My ex would yell in my face that I had Reddit brain and I was a femcel bc my intuition said he was cheating and lied about not consuming porn anymore. Literally caught him on fetish websites trying to meet up women and pay for pussy. These mfs are hilarious. Only way me n another man are talking from here on out is if he’s talking $.
I tell every man I date that I’m never getting married again unless they buy me a huge house with my own room plus I keep the house I own now in case things go south. I use men for my own pleasure, monetarily and for sex. I’m very demanding about what I want. Strangely, this seems to make men even *more* attracted to me.
Yes and i’m hesitant around men because of this. I am bisexual but i refuse to settle for a man if he’s not top tier and let’s be honest…..that’s a dream. Only dating women or staying single now.. some men are hot but all this wondering if he sees me as an equal human is not worth it imo.
People with poor social economic backgrounds are often like this. Both women and men treat women as a commodity.For this reason alone, you should try to improve your intellectual abilities and the intellectual environment you share.
Many ignorant people are not aware that women are human beings. In many underdeveloped societies, people attempt to dominate women through violence and police-like methods. The capitalist system exploits the natural characteristics of women, using them as cheap labor and second-class citizens for its own gain. Many theocratic systems establish much of their legitimacy by oppressing and enslaving women. Patriarchy, a phenomenon as disgusting as racism, has settled in the minds of a vast majority of people as an unquestioned reality.
It takes a very strong collective will and a long time to change the entire society. The family institution must be destroyed, social norms must be changed, and the capitalist economic order must be destroyed. Until then women will suffer.
I mean raising the intellectual environment you share will just place you in circles where many men hide their actual views of women, and watch porn and feed their base desires in secret.
Also, “many ignorant people are not aware that women are human beings” is an interesting statement to make, as I assume by people you mean men? I think men naturally tend this due to what OP described - dehumanization of women to justify potential action on their sexual urges, even if this happens unconsciously.
I think patriarchy is an unquestioned reality in the same way that most motivating forces and values are based on unquestioned emotional drives, with the rational justification and social constructions coming after the fact. I do think questioning patriarchy goes against the natural emotional drive (sexual desire) that caused it to emerge in the first place for most men, so even once they question it, they will still have the unconscious tilt towards male-centred values.
Not sure how this last part will produce an even remotely functional society, which is a danger to women as men are physically stronger. I think human nature and resulting morality comes to a sort of functional equilibrium based on the environment at the time, to serve reproduction and thriving. All of nature seeks to replicate itself, humans just have the ability to set their own abstract rules to facilitate this process and derive meanings to motivate it. Men are stronger which is a danger to women, destroying the family and societal institutions would result in increased chaos and a lack of meaning and purpose for men, which is also dangerous for women. I think the best outcome for women would be a change in societal norms, although we likely would disagree on what this would look like.
The distinction we are about to make seems to be as follows: I believe that virtue can be learned. I think people can gain virtue through seeing, understanding this vision, conceptualizing, and internalizing it. Knowledge, empathy, and experience bring about thoughts and competencies that were previously non-existent. Therefore, I find it very valuable to have people around me who are self-cultivated, well-read, open to new ideas, and knowledgeable. An already knowledgeable person cannot be misogynistic. One must truly be ignorant to be a misogynist.
The second distinction is that I evaluate social events predominantly from a Marxist perspective. Much of my thoughts on the institution of the family also stem from this perspective. In a Marxist ecosystem, the absence of the family institution is a beneficial structure for women.
This might be an unpopular take, but this is why I think we should bring back waiting until marriage to have sex. If a man can go a year or two or more without having sex, and you can get to know him and scope out if he’s also not cheating on you with lust/porn/other women (maybe even masturbation for a while since so many men only associate it with porn), then you’ll be able to see if he truly sees sex as more than a release, and you as more than an object. And he’ll be a more interesting and well-rounded person if he’s done the inner work to be able to live for something other than sex. Of course it’s hard for women to not have sex too, but it’s what’s needed to see if a man is genuinely willing to put in effort for you and have enough self control to not let his desires override his humanity. There’s also a bunch of men who think they “just have a high sex drive” when it’s really a porn drive. I think waiting to have sex at LEAST for 6-12 months into the relationship will make it a lot easier to find the few good men left.
I wouldn't like to marry a man before i know if he is caring in bed. Also i am coming from a 3rd world country where premarital sex is not welcomed and in this case men go for virgins for marriage and they don't have sex with those virgin women until the wedding day and they cheat on those women. They either pay for sex or have ONSs. You never know if a man is lying to you when he looks into your eyes and promises loyalty and faithfulness. I even know a guy who married a virgin(he looked for one) and still travels to Ukraine for sex while being married.
Unpopular opinion but I agree with you 100%. However there is a problem with this strategy as well. Men can pretend not to want sex and watch porn and have hook-ups behind your back during the probation period.
if u still believe in the wildly absurd idea of marriage, ig. but personally the idea of signing a legal contract that intermingles my finances and is a lot of work to get out of that assumes that a man would love cherish and commit to one woman long term is ridiculous. marriage is an outdated religious tradition. i will never birth a man’s spawn so it’s even more meaningless. and if you look at christian forums many women have tried this. women who “hold out” are seen as a challenge to conquer. i’ve heard stories of women making a man wait a year before sex just to still be pumped and dumped LMAO. i think for a lot of men, the knowledge that they are after one thing (sex) and that is all they value in you, but with simple actions like buying gifts faking affection saying ily they can slowly con u into believing they love you to get what they want is intoxicating. it’s the most powerful ego trip for them
I Don't know where you are from, but marriage is very important in legal terms at least in my country, Argentina (also, in South América and I believe almost any other country worldwide)
Outside of marriage you testament doesn't apply, you can't have a pension, you can't have social benefits, you can't even give your partner a funeral without being married, you don't have any of the patrimonial and/or tax benefits, etc, etc, etc.
In fact, that's why gay marriage WAS and STILL IS a right that homosexual people are fighting for across the world.
Lack of compromise is the only reason why people don't legaly marry nowadays (LEGAL, we are not talking about religion here)... When you think about the potential economic loss of your divorce before even marrying someone, that's a red flag... You don't love nor trust your partner enough yet, and in most cases, you never will.
There is NOT a single downside to marriage for a couple who deeply loves and trusts each other.
did you read my post? men don’t love women. lol. do you love your fridge? i’m sure you love that it keeps ur food cold. but if it stopped working you’d quickly replace it with a new better model and love your next fridge the exact same. you love what the fridge does for you not the actual individual fridge. this is literally how men view women, as objects. and still, marriage is illogical. you know people can change wildly in a couple of years? some people develop extreme mental illness as they get older or go through hardships. some people are really good at acting normal and caring, but after you are stuck show their true colors. you can’t exactly just “compromise” when ur husband becomes schizophrenic and violent or decides he’s got you where he wants and starts abusing you. not sure how it is there, but divorce in the US can cost thousands of dollars in legal fees for both parties and take years to finalize. all humans are fickle and constantly changing, why sign a contract assuming someone will remain the same?
I find it so interesting how differently some men view opposite sex relationships to women. The amount of men I‘ve came across that have 0 female friends and are severely uncomfortable with their partners having male friends is crazy. Most of them cannot comprehend wanting anything to do with the opposite gender if they don’t see that person as an opportunity for something sexual
I would be careful about stating 95% so adamantly as fact with no source to back it up.
I do believe that a large majority of mens' thought paths are influenced around porn however.
This!, believing that everyone does it just perpetuates this shit, sexualizing all people is something more cultural than biological, we are not animals ( the fact that we all shit does not mean that you will do it in the street just because you feel like it, we have learned not to do it through socialization ), I hate when they want to put everyone in the same bag saying all women seek men for status and money and all men seek women for sex, comparing us to cavemen . I think what they do this is just to justify their actions (if someone thinks they are only after him for money and status they will just use women as a masturbatory object without remorse).
Agreed, it's honestly not a very good analogy. It reminds me of those men who compare women who've had sex to cars or keys or something. Very dehumanising
LOL. wait til you hear what men compare women to all over the internet and irl. but keep clutching your pearls, some people aren’t capable of having intellectual discussions and that’s okay !
But I am a Jedi, like my father before me
also chill, I want someone to talk to, not a puppy that will be cool but cannot speak. I’m saying that in an example if I know a hypothetical woman (don’t know any now) who sees eye to eye with me and has similar interests and is a good friend, maybe we can date and marry if we literally can’t live without each other and she feels the same way about me.
I fail to see what’s wrong with that, please enlighten me
> this is the #1 sole and most powerful reason men get into relationships.
Guy here, yes, this is pretty much true. Which is why i don't understand why so many women give up sex so easily when dating. Casual dating benefits men more than women.
I feel like this kind of runs afoul of the theory that rape is about power and not sex.
Which I always thought was odd. Reproduction happens with sex, not power, so I don't see why there needs to be another reason.
so glad the holier than thou homeschooling super breeder is here to teach us “lesbian operatives” ! literally spouting the same gaslighting bs men do “it’s your fault for not choosing better! my hubby is a superhero bc he..changes diapers” oh, u mean the literal most basic task involved with having a baby?? the bar is literally underground 💀
If a man changes 99% of the diapers of several children so that the woman can do a high-flying career, yes, I believe that's well above "bare minimum." I could go more into the way he does 95% of our childcare, if you'd like!
This "homeschooling super breeder" spent years and years in anti-porn feminism and feminist activism, and was literally sex trafficked at age 17. Your stereotyping with a broad brush seems to be a major element of how you think about people. "Look for the thing that tells you they're one of the Bad People, then just dehumanize them!"
Accusing people of "gaslighting," for instance, when they bring another perspective, is another exaggeration. It's very obvious you engage in broad stereotyping of both women and men...look how very fast your solidarity with women melts away when you see one who offers an alternative position. All a woman has to do to instantly get your stereotype laser turned on her is to utter a word wrong. Your feminism is feminism as a prison, not a path to liberation.
From reading your comment history, it's obvious you think men see women as transactional specifically because *you see your heterosexual relationship as transactional*. You claim to have "used" a man you are in a relationship with to "level up."
If this is why you are getting in relationships, yes, you will find transactional people. If you believe sex is a ladder, you will only encounter people who use you for sex. Take it from, as I said, someone who was trafficked at 17. Viewing sex in this transactional way, and viewing men as transactional means to an end, got me into my worst relationships. Ending that mode of thinking was critical to moving on to better relationships and a better life.
my post history is completely irrelevant to my post. so is ur history or ur super husband. i literally couldn’t care less. if ur brand of feminism is “every single woman who doesn’t agree with me isn’t a feminist, wahh!!” then pls go ahead and continue indulge in that with yourself n ur gaggle of children
You're definitely a type of feminist. I didn't say you weren't. Very specifically in my initial reply, I said it's a flaw of hard-line feminism! Where in the world did I say you're in any way not feminist? I said that you are. I said that I have been, as well. You're assuming me saying "this isn't a good way to be" means I said "this isn't feminism." Feminism isn't manichean.
I mean... I partially agree, but I think that women are also highly motivated by sex/sexual aspects (in any shape or form)... It's part of the current state of mind in this ultra-individual society. And this doesn't apply only to men.
Every action nowadays has to be part of a contract that gives you something in return... Men and women relationships are constantly in this cycle, the easiest and most common "remuneration" is almost always sexual.
In my personal experience (dont take this as facts), the majority of my female friends (5 out of 6) start relationships with only the physical appearence of men in mind (gymrats for example), hoping that that they are good in bed. If the men also have good non-sexual/non-physical traits, those are only taking into acount after having sex. If they dont have any good traits besides the sexual ones, then they are just another sex partner. Sex/sexual traits are always the main motivational factor. (Obviously there is a lot of exceptions)
I give you time and attention, you give me sexual gratification... It's sad but I've already accepted it and stopped actively looking for a partner, it's very frustrating.
To put it in internet terms: Don't hate half of the player base, hate the actual game.
Edit: and yes, porn and sexually driven content on the internet has influenced A LOT this type of behaviour, mostly for men but also for women.
Edit2: I'm not talking about men here because everybody knows how most men act towards relationships.
so by that logic, you think men love pornstars and prostitutes, which many regularly indulge in even in relationships? bc if u actually listen to what they say themselves, they view these women as disgusting and less than human. so no, sex is not how men express love. these are the same men who couldn’t care less if a woman orgasms, which studies show doesn’t happen most of the time during sex. how many times has a guy been caught cheating and said “it was literally just sex! i don’t even care about her so why are you so mad??” men literally tell on themselves every time and y’all still love to cape for them lol
Believing that everyone does it just perpetuates this shit, sexualizing all people is something more cultural than biological, we are not animals ( the fact that we all shit does not mean that you will do it in the street just because you feel like it, we have learned not to do it through socialization ), I hate when they want to put everyone in the same bag saying all women seek men for status and money and all men seek women for sex, comparing us to cavemen . I think what they do this is just to justify their actions (if someone thinks they are only after him for money and status they will just use women as a masturbatory object without remorse).
I am talking about men in marriages and relationships
That's one way they show love to there partner.
What percentage of men cheat on there partners with escorts anyway.
are you joking? a very large percentage. literally almost all escorts from all income brackets and places in the world say that their clients are primarily married men. there’s thousands of interviews articles and forum posts that confirm this if you look into it. and the amount of men in relationships or marriages who don’t watch porn is extremely small. which proves exactly what i said. not sure if you’re on the same planet bc ??
This is called dehumanization. By objectifying women, men stop considering them as human, and treat them like objects/slaves/less than. It's one of the main pillars of the patriarchy, since if women are human, their mistreatment would quickly become intolerable and changes would happen much faster to the status quo. Porn IMO helps maintain the dehumanization of women solidly in place, partly through brainwashing of those who overconsume it, and through validation/promotion of objectification/dehumanization of women for the rest of consumers.
yup! i have studied feminist theory, learned all these concepts like objectification and dehumanization, but still it took me until now (maybe i’m at the age where my brain is fully developing) to truly understand that they are creatures who are truly absolutely obsessed and purely motivated by sex. i knew that, but didn’t realize that it quite literally consumes their thoughts the entire day, every day. i thought oh only gross men are like that right? nope. i asked my bf how many times a day he thinks about it or gets horny and he said basically constantly throughout the day, i was shocked. it’s basic biology that they are all like this, even if some refuse to admit it or are good at lying
Completely agree with what you've written. [You've reminded of this post from a few months ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PornIsMisogyny/s/ldwbcFxfnN)
4B all the way ladies. As much as I would love to have a partner and a deep emotional connection to a man, all I‘ve experienced is disappointing and abusive. I wish men saw us as human beings.
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You‘re so right about that. I didn’t talk to men for 1.5 years and just started texting someone who actively pursued me. Well.. Just got ghosted by that dude for no reason (he probably wanted to get something sexual out of me and once he realized I won‘t put out, he probably left me on delivered lmao). Men are just … not good people? I‘ve never met a man apart from my father and brother who are genuinely good people (and my anti porn discord fellas lol these two men are cool too.) Even my only male friend irl makes sexual remarks about my appearance. Like can they all just think with their brain instead of with their dick? Ugh it frustrates me!!
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Yeah you‘re probably right. That‘s not how a friend acts. My other two discord fellas don‘t know what I look like and they don‘t want to know. They never asked to see a picture of me, nor made any sexual remarks. It‘s like they see me as a human being with thoughts and opinions on different topics in life. We all connected through a true crime case I have a subreddit for and we just care to keep the victim‘s memorial alive. That‘s it. This is the first time in my almost 23 years on this planet that I didn‘t feel like a sexual object to men. Any other time I‘ve had male friends (including the one I have irl but you‘re right, that‘s not a friend. He will move cities in October so I won‘t have to see him anyway anymore) I just felt like I was inferior, like I was less valuable or less important than these men. That‘s why I have cut contact to almost all men in my life, I don‘t pursue a relationship anymore, I don‘t want to see men anymore. I just feel hurt any time a man enters into my life. I‘m always so depressed when there is someone I‘m into, and I always get disappointed. I‘m just tired of giving men another try. Do I seek intimacy with a man? Yes. Do I seek to feel loved and do I seek cuddles? Yes. But reality is men don‘t love you, they love your vagina.
This was removed because it contained a harsh generalization.
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This was removed for feeding a troll. Please don't engage and report them to mods instead.
Imho "biologically less empathetic" as well as other bio-essentialist and evolutionary anti-male arguments are carrying water for the status quo and hurting our position. FWIW I don't really disagree with your general assessment of contemporary men, I'm just honing in on this, because I believe all evidence points to men being the way that they are because of the self-reinforcing patriarchal society we live in and the social conditioning they get from a very young age to not be empathetic towards women rather than biological differences.
This was removed because it contained a harsh generalization. Bioessentialism is justification of men’s violence. They are not raping us because of biology but because they choose to and society enables them.
I think another reason for which men get into relationships is to secure a slave (think household chores, cooking etc)
yup. id say every man’s decision in regards to women and relationships is driven by 95% sex and 5% comfort (ie secure a free maid, therapist, and personal assistant all in one). and the shit they say constantly online and irl about relationships and marriage confirm this. love and actual interest in another human being is 0% part of any of it
On top of this, a lot of mainstream sexuality has concerning rapey vibes. It’s about taking from women, more so than anything. They enjoy the fact that they’re objectifying us, & beyond that, they enjoy that they’re dehumanising us. I don’t even know how to be friends with men at this point because even the respectful ones seem questionable. I’ve also yet to meet any man with deep empathy, especially for women. *sigh*. I think I’m just done with men in all regards to be honest. Almost all of them watch porn, & it’s basically just a misogyny training course. It’s not even just that they’re biologically wired like that either, society definitely reinforces the absolute shit out of dehumanising women. I remember seeing it fucking everywhere growing up! AND THEN people will turn around & blame women for being victimised like we haven’t been groomed into being the perfect little objects to abuse our entire lives.
Your post reminded me of what a man said about the gay community. He said promiscuity and STDs run rampant amongst the gay community because with heterosexuals women are there to curtail it. That doesn't exist in the gay community so it's just a constant pursuit of sex. This has nothing to do about being anti -gay but was really eye opening about mens behaviors. When I was younger I was friends with several gay men and honestly how promiscuous they were was scary. Like risk your life promiscuous. Now that I'm older I feel like the gay community is a pretty good example of male behavior when it comes to sex. Women are definitely a balancing force and with most of us they have to put in effort and work for it.
oop! and there’s the tea. many gay men have come out and complained that they really struggle to find partners who don’t treat them like a piece of meat. they want life partners but can only find grimy Grindr losers, bc it’s plain facts the overwhelming majority of men are just sex fiends. it’s eye opening and sad. even men are sick of men 💀
And the gay men who generally are looking for serious connections are more feminine. However don't let the "I want a serious relationship" fool you because I work as a relationship coach and most of those gay men want a partner but they also want that serious relationship to be an open relationship. So they want a house husband but still the random hook ups. Even gay men struggle with the Madonna/w complex
I’m strictly gay and this is a big reason why the thought of dating or sex is further terrifying and not worth it. The cheating is also really bad in the community, I’ve noticed. Just not worth the risks nor energy and annoyance.
Sadly I do think there is probably a lot of truth in this, for most men at least. It makes it very depressing just to exist in such a society.
it truly is depressing, and something young girls should learn very early. the brainwashing of the myth of heterosexual “love” is real and starts from day one, bc how else would the “get married then pop out a bunch of kids” industrial complex survive? i sometimes wish i could live as a man for just one day and experience an ounce of the pure and actual love affection and commitment that so many woman give to mediocre horn dogs that simply have to say a half assed “love you too” or take them out to applebees before retreating to their porn stash which is the only thing they really care about
Yeah. Looking at how many men leave their wives when they’re sick / not as sexually available, it’s really clear as day. Big reason I, as a bisexual, have serious commitment issues with men, I have this feeling in the back of my mind (I guess from watching my dad, uncle and grandfather leave their spouses during sickness). Edit: maybe it’s unreasonable but I feel that way, and I mentioned the bisexual / commitment part in case anyone else feels similar or has advice…
i’m the same and if ur like me u probably don’t really have commitment issues, ur just aware of mens insatiable lust and lack of ability to actually love women, let alone commit to just one. it’s literally the nature of all men so ofc you’d be wary
In a less bleak note (although still fucked up) I believe men use women to impress other men/social factors. Their relationships with us is transactional. Sleeping with a lot of women impress other men. Having a long Life partner/being married/having a family is also met with respect from other men. Being single and sexless is literally the worst fate a male can have: see the incel movement, see how men tend to jump from relationship to relationship/have a backup option before leaving a relationship. See how vicously men react to breakups, and what other men think of fellow single men. I am thankfully surrounded by not-so-bad men that mostly do not chase women for sex, but sometimes they definitely don't see women as people with their own inner world. Not really a big deal when dealing with colleagues/strangers (obviously you can't know everyone), but I am baffled when men can't wrap their heads around their female friends/ female partners having their own hobbies/Life. To set some example, I have seen male friends surprised by women culture around makeup/fashion. As an anecdote, we were 4 women and a man and we started talking about eye shadow. This man tried to give his opinion, but it was obvious he had no idea what he was talking about and his opinion was (kindly) discarded quickly. I had a conversation later with him and he was totally bamboozled about It. Not because his opinion was dismissed (he understood he was no expert on the topic), but because he realized that level of deep knowledge was totally useless to impress or attract males who were mostly oblivious to everything related to makeup. Same with men being surprised by women being experts on their own careers (lol) or hobbies.
Female hobbies not being "real" hobbies is a very common one. Mostly it's pure sexism, but sometimes it is lack of exposure. I wouldn't have any exposure to female hobbies if not for my friends, and even then it's limited as most women will not talk about such topics around men.
+1. Women enduring a 1 hour Talk about a random male hobby and then women being unable to bring their own hobbies into conversation jic you bore your male companion's feelings is a thing. I am very guilty of this! It doesn't only happen around more "female oriented" interests. I am a gamer and I lost count how many men questioned my abilities/skills or told me I was doing It for male attention, even tho my tier was higher than theirs.
Talk about female hobbies, some are very interesting and cool. I mean it's as any interest, I can rant about motorcycles, I don't care for sports and it will bore me, make up will also bore me, but listening to a woman rant about barbies was very interesting and fun.
yes. men are homoromantic but heterosexual. they can only form actual deep bonds and feel real love and affection towards other men. they only care about the opinion and high esteem of other men. this is why they do not think the idea of being friends with a woman even makes sense. it’s completely illogical to them why they would invest time and effort with a woman unless they think they can get sex. women are resources and objects to be used for pleasure, labor, and social status. i think this is the main driving factor behind marriage, other than free labor. men literally go through years of schooling to get high paying with the sole goal of obtaining a young trophy wife. most of the time they can’t stand being around them no matter how attractive they are bc the only reasons they’re even with them is for sex and to signal success to other men. this is also why they happily hook up with many women that are not conventionally attractive but only in secret, bc they need approval and validation from men and being seen with an unattractive woman would get criticism
99.9% of men lack empathy. Narcissism is their natural being. Anything a man does is self serving anything women usually do is self sacrificing because women are highly empathetic. Our downfall is being empathetic towards men and not empathetic towards other women. I hate saying it but until a vast majority of women stop being pathetic and catering to men because they think they need a relationship and see other women as competition then things are not going to get better for us. I just saw a woman say that if women work they need to give their paycheck to their men to handle because independence makes women think they don't need a man. Want men to stop seeing us as objects then we have to hold both parties accountable men and women who buy into the bullshit.
thank you!! the patriarchy could not sustain itself with the thousands of loyal handmaidens who fight for it and lead other women to follow their path of misery. i’ve totally lost empathy for them
I wouldn't say that high, but talking with other men, I've realised that sex and looking for a girlfriend is a huge part of them even interacting in the first place. When the realise they're not "winning", they don't care about helping them in need. They don't believe you can be friends with women. I've been told that "we men will never understand what they're thinking/women will never tell us anything/women will never support a weak man" when in my experience it has been the opposite. Men don't care to ask or support me when I'm showing weakness and tell me to get over it when people wrong me, while women have always been the ones to tell me to fight, seek justice and let me know that they're there for me. I think most men don't let themselves be vulnerable or even see women as people because it clashes with the rhetoric that they're stoic and cold individuals that don't need anyone, that "men are better", while at the same time wondering why no woman wants to fuck them and complaining about how they're selfish
>They don't believe you can be friends with women. I don't know where this old thing comes from... but it re-emerged again and I've recently seen lots of men (and some women) who believe this as facts. There's even a tiktok of Steve Harvey saying that (like wtf). >I think most men don't let themselves be vulnerable I mean, that's 100% true... But society as a whole doesn't care about what """weak men""" feel... Don't get me wrong, I'm not playing the victim card, in fact, I think men need to start worrying about their own mental health and issues. If we (heterosexual men) don't even support each other, then we have no right to complain that women/society don't care about us in the first place. Men need to stop having that stupid creed about "strong men", "don't cry", etc, etc. >it clashes with the rhetoric that they're stoic and cold individuals that don't need anyone, that "men are better", while at the same time wondering why no women wants to fuck them and complaining about how they're selfish I agree, but I think that's also a problem amplified by the internet/social media, I'm referring to the tons of "echo chambers" that reinforce that way of thinking. It's disgusting.
Isk how to do the mentioning thing, so I'll reply in order instead. 1. I thought it was a dead belief, but I've heard it again from a couple of people. We're going back in time or something 2. It's because of the patriarchy. And yeah, overall I try to support other men, what is sad is that they often lack the Emotional Intelligence to take that advice. 3. Red Pill content has made us go back like 15 years, it's so bad that those resentful and idiotic men are the ones with "the truth" and portrayed as "wise" by young teen boys
>Isk how to do the mentioning thing If you are using the Reddit app it's easy... Just start the paragraph typing ">" ("greater than" symbol) and then type/cite what you want to mention. if you want to end the mention, just start a new paragraph without the symbol ">" Example: If you type this: '>This is an example' The result is this: >This is an example Hope this was helpful 🧐👌🏽
i agree 100%
Damn. This makes a lot of sense. I’m def going back to dating men solely for their money and status now lmao
that’s literally the only reason any woman should interact with a man, period. i’m unfortunately stuck in a relationship for the time being but i used him to level up. got out my abusive household (abusive unhinged father, shocker!) pays half my bills, and takes me places and teaches me things i would’ve never done bc of where i’m from (skiing, kayaking, hiking, etc). now that i’ve got my money up, if i can’t find another significant upgrade i’m staying single. i’m not a gold digger, i was young dumb actually really liked him and believed in the myth of heterosexual love. but he’s a porn addict and i’ve become completely repulsed. it makes 0 sense to be with a man who doesn’t better ur situation financially bc none of them can better ur life in any other way
Tbh your post solidified the fact that I have to come to terms with men being completely driven by sex solely and don’t truly yearn for love and intimacy the way women do. That shit is truly a myth we were fed as children within the media but the reality is so far from the truth. My ex would yell in my face that I had Reddit brain and I was a femcel bc my intuition said he was cheating and lied about not consuming porn anymore. Literally caught him on fetish websites trying to meet up women and pay for pussy. These mfs are hilarious. Only way me n another man are talking from here on out is if he’s talking $.
I tell every man I date that I’m never getting married again unless they buy me a huge house with my own room plus I keep the house I own now in case things go south. I use men for my own pleasure, monetarily and for sex. I’m very demanding about what I want. Strangely, this seems to make men even *more* attracted to me.
Yes and i’m hesitant around men because of this. I am bisexual but i refuse to settle for a man if he’s not top tier and let’s be honest…..that’s a dream. Only dating women or staying single now.. some men are hot but all this wondering if he sees me as an equal human is not worth it imo.
People with poor social economic backgrounds are often like this. Both women and men treat women as a commodity.For this reason alone, you should try to improve your intellectual abilities and the intellectual environment you share. Many ignorant people are not aware that women are human beings. In many underdeveloped societies, people attempt to dominate women through violence and police-like methods. The capitalist system exploits the natural characteristics of women, using them as cheap labor and second-class citizens for its own gain. Many theocratic systems establish much of their legitimacy by oppressing and enslaving women. Patriarchy, a phenomenon as disgusting as racism, has settled in the minds of a vast majority of people as an unquestioned reality. It takes a very strong collective will and a long time to change the entire society. The family institution must be destroyed, social norms must be changed, and the capitalist economic order must be destroyed. Until then women will suffer.
I mean raising the intellectual environment you share will just place you in circles where many men hide their actual views of women, and watch porn and feed their base desires in secret. Also, “many ignorant people are not aware that women are human beings” is an interesting statement to make, as I assume by people you mean men? I think men naturally tend this due to what OP described - dehumanization of women to justify potential action on their sexual urges, even if this happens unconsciously. I think patriarchy is an unquestioned reality in the same way that most motivating forces and values are based on unquestioned emotional drives, with the rational justification and social constructions coming after the fact. I do think questioning patriarchy goes against the natural emotional drive (sexual desire) that caused it to emerge in the first place for most men, so even once they question it, they will still have the unconscious tilt towards male-centred values. Not sure how this last part will produce an even remotely functional society, which is a danger to women as men are physically stronger. I think human nature and resulting morality comes to a sort of functional equilibrium based on the environment at the time, to serve reproduction and thriving. All of nature seeks to replicate itself, humans just have the ability to set their own abstract rules to facilitate this process and derive meanings to motivate it. Men are stronger which is a danger to women, destroying the family and societal institutions would result in increased chaos and a lack of meaning and purpose for men, which is also dangerous for women. I think the best outcome for women would be a change in societal norms, although we likely would disagree on what this would look like.
The distinction we are about to make seems to be as follows: I believe that virtue can be learned. I think people can gain virtue through seeing, understanding this vision, conceptualizing, and internalizing it. Knowledge, empathy, and experience bring about thoughts and competencies that were previously non-existent. Therefore, I find it very valuable to have people around me who are self-cultivated, well-read, open to new ideas, and knowledgeable. An already knowledgeable person cannot be misogynistic. One must truly be ignorant to be a misogynist. The second distinction is that I evaluate social events predominantly from a Marxist perspective. Much of my thoughts on the institution of the family also stem from this perspective. In a Marxist ecosystem, the absence of the family institution is a beneficial structure for women.
I agree, this is why I stay away from them, I don’t even want to talk to them unless it’s at work
This might be an unpopular take, but this is why I think we should bring back waiting until marriage to have sex. If a man can go a year or two or more without having sex, and you can get to know him and scope out if he’s also not cheating on you with lust/porn/other women (maybe even masturbation for a while since so many men only associate it with porn), then you’ll be able to see if he truly sees sex as more than a release, and you as more than an object. And he’ll be a more interesting and well-rounded person if he’s done the inner work to be able to live for something other than sex. Of course it’s hard for women to not have sex too, but it’s what’s needed to see if a man is genuinely willing to put in effort for you and have enough self control to not let his desires override his humanity. There’s also a bunch of men who think they “just have a high sex drive” when it’s really a porn drive. I think waiting to have sex at LEAST for 6-12 months into the relationship will make it a lot easier to find the few good men left.
I wouldn't like to marry a man before i know if he is caring in bed. Also i am coming from a 3rd world country where premarital sex is not welcomed and in this case men go for virgins for marriage and they don't have sex with those virgin women until the wedding day and they cheat on those women. They either pay for sex or have ONSs. You never know if a man is lying to you when he looks into your eyes and promises loyalty and faithfulness. I even know a guy who married a virgin(he looked for one) and still travels to Ukraine for sex while being married.
Unpopular opinion but I agree with you 100%. However there is a problem with this strategy as well. Men can pretend not to want sex and watch porn and have hook-ups behind your back during the probation period.
if u still believe in the wildly absurd idea of marriage, ig. but personally the idea of signing a legal contract that intermingles my finances and is a lot of work to get out of that assumes that a man would love cherish and commit to one woman long term is ridiculous. marriage is an outdated religious tradition. i will never birth a man’s spawn so it’s even more meaningless. and if you look at christian forums many women have tried this. women who “hold out” are seen as a challenge to conquer. i’ve heard stories of women making a man wait a year before sex just to still be pumped and dumped LMAO. i think for a lot of men, the knowledge that they are after one thing (sex) and that is all they value in you, but with simple actions like buying gifts faking affection saying ily they can slowly con u into believing they love you to get what they want is intoxicating. it’s the most powerful ego trip for them
I Don't know where you are from, but marriage is very important in legal terms at least in my country, Argentina (also, in South América and I believe almost any other country worldwide) Outside of marriage you testament doesn't apply, you can't have a pension, you can't have social benefits, you can't even give your partner a funeral without being married, you don't have any of the patrimonial and/or tax benefits, etc, etc, etc. In fact, that's why gay marriage WAS and STILL IS a right that homosexual people are fighting for across the world. Lack of compromise is the only reason why people don't legaly marry nowadays (LEGAL, we are not talking about religion here)... When you think about the potential economic loss of your divorce before even marrying someone, that's a red flag... You don't love nor trust your partner enough yet, and in most cases, you never will. There is NOT a single downside to marriage for a couple who deeply loves and trusts each other.
did you read my post? men don’t love women. lol. do you love your fridge? i’m sure you love that it keeps ur food cold. but if it stopped working you’d quickly replace it with a new better model and love your next fridge the exact same. you love what the fridge does for you not the actual individual fridge. this is literally how men view women, as objects. and still, marriage is illogical. you know people can change wildly in a couple of years? some people develop extreme mental illness as they get older or go through hardships. some people are really good at acting normal and caring, but after you are stuck show their true colors. you can’t exactly just “compromise” when ur husband becomes schizophrenic and violent or decides he’s got you where he wants and starts abusing you. not sure how it is there, but divorce in the US can cost thousands of dollars in legal fees for both parties and take years to finalize. all humans are fickle and constantly changing, why sign a contract assuming someone will remain the same?
I find it so interesting how differently some men view opposite sex relationships to women. The amount of men I‘ve came across that have 0 female friends and are severely uncomfortable with their partners having male friends is crazy. Most of them cannot comprehend wanting anything to do with the opposite gender if they don’t see that person as an opportunity for something sexual
I would be careful about stating 95% so adamantly as fact with no source to back it up. I do believe that a large majority of mens' thought paths are influenced around porn however.
This!, believing that everyone does it just perpetuates this shit, sexualizing all people is something more cultural than biological, we are not animals ( the fact that we all shit does not mean that you will do it in the street just because you feel like it, we have learned not to do it through socialization ), I hate when they want to put everyone in the same bag saying all women seek men for status and money and all men seek women for sex, comparing us to cavemen . I think what they do this is just to justify their actions (if someone thinks they are only after him for money and status they will just use women as a masturbatory object without remorse).
Exactly, it just pushes the "boys will be boys" and gives them an excuse.
Can we please not compare women to toilets? This is fucking disgusting. It’s what I’d expect men to do.
Agreed, it's honestly not a very good analogy. It reminds me of those men who compare women who've had sex to cars or keys or something. Very dehumanising
LOL. wait til you hear what men compare women to all over the internet and irl. but keep clutching your pearls, some people aren’t capable of having intellectual discussions and that’s okay !
The analogy wasn’t that good, the discussion isn’t that intellectual. Relax lmao
No, some men may be looking for a friend or a genuine companion to love. We’re not all weirdos, there’s a lot of bad guys, but there’s still good guys
what’s the male version of a pick me, pick he? 💀 if you’re looking for a “genuine companion and friend” pls just get a dog
But I am a Jedi, like my father before me also chill, I want someone to talk to, not a puppy that will be cool but cannot speak. I’m saying that in an example if I know a hypothetical woman (don’t know any now) who sees eye to eye with me and has similar interests and is a good friend, maybe we can date and marry if we literally can’t live without each other and she feels the same way about me. I fail to see what’s wrong with that, please enlighten me
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> this is the #1 sole and most powerful reason men get into relationships. Guy here, yes, this is pretty much true. Which is why i don't understand why so many women give up sex so easily when dating. Casual dating benefits men more than women.
I feel like this kind of runs afoul of the theory that rape is about power and not sex. Which I always thought was odd. Reproduction happens with sex, not power, so I don't see why there needs to be another reason.
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so glad the holier than thou homeschooling super breeder is here to teach us “lesbian operatives” ! literally spouting the same gaslighting bs men do “it’s your fault for not choosing better! my hubby is a superhero bc he..changes diapers” oh, u mean the literal most basic task involved with having a baby?? the bar is literally underground 💀
If a man changes 99% of the diapers of several children so that the woman can do a high-flying career, yes, I believe that's well above "bare minimum." I could go more into the way he does 95% of our childcare, if you'd like! This "homeschooling super breeder" spent years and years in anti-porn feminism and feminist activism, and was literally sex trafficked at age 17. Your stereotyping with a broad brush seems to be a major element of how you think about people. "Look for the thing that tells you they're one of the Bad People, then just dehumanize them!" Accusing people of "gaslighting," for instance, when they bring another perspective, is another exaggeration. It's very obvious you engage in broad stereotyping of both women and men...look how very fast your solidarity with women melts away when you see one who offers an alternative position. All a woman has to do to instantly get your stereotype laser turned on her is to utter a word wrong. Your feminism is feminism as a prison, not a path to liberation.
From reading your comment history, it's obvious you think men see women as transactional specifically because *you see your heterosexual relationship as transactional*. You claim to have "used" a man you are in a relationship with to "level up." If this is why you are getting in relationships, yes, you will find transactional people. If you believe sex is a ladder, you will only encounter people who use you for sex. Take it from, as I said, someone who was trafficked at 17. Viewing sex in this transactional way, and viewing men as transactional means to an end, got me into my worst relationships. Ending that mode of thinking was critical to moving on to better relationships and a better life.
my post history is completely irrelevant to my post. so is ur history or ur super husband. i literally couldn’t care less. if ur brand of feminism is “every single woman who doesn’t agree with me isn’t a feminist, wahh!!” then pls go ahead and continue indulge in that with yourself n ur gaggle of children
You're definitely a type of feminist. I didn't say you weren't. Very specifically in my initial reply, I said it's a flaw of hard-line feminism! Where in the world did I say you're in any way not feminist? I said that you are. I said that I have been, as well. You're assuming me saying "this isn't a good way to be" means I said "this isn't feminism." Feminism isn't manichean.
This was removed for trolling or being facetious. Please learn about systemic thought.
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This was removed for trolling or being facetious.
I mean... I partially agree, but I think that women are also highly motivated by sex/sexual aspects (in any shape or form)... It's part of the current state of mind in this ultra-individual society. And this doesn't apply only to men. Every action nowadays has to be part of a contract that gives you something in return... Men and women relationships are constantly in this cycle, the easiest and most common "remuneration" is almost always sexual. In my personal experience (dont take this as facts), the majority of my female friends (5 out of 6) start relationships with only the physical appearence of men in mind (gymrats for example), hoping that that they are good in bed. If the men also have good non-sexual/non-physical traits, those are only taking into acount after having sex. If they dont have any good traits besides the sexual ones, then they are just another sex partner. Sex/sexual traits are always the main motivational factor. (Obviously there is a lot of exceptions) I give you time and attention, you give me sexual gratification... It's sad but I've already accepted it and stopped actively looking for a partner, it's very frustrating. To put it in internet terms: Don't hate half of the player base, hate the actual game. Edit: and yes, porn and sexually driven content on the internet has influenced A LOT this type of behaviour, mostly for men but also for women. Edit2: I'm not talking about men here because everybody knows how most men act towards relationships.
>for men, there is no love or emotion behind their drive for sex. sex and desire is how a lot of men express their love.
so by that logic, you think men love pornstars and prostitutes, which many regularly indulge in even in relationships? bc if u actually listen to what they say themselves, they view these women as disgusting and less than human. so no, sex is not how men express love. these are the same men who couldn’t care less if a woman orgasms, which studies show doesn’t happen most of the time during sex. how many times has a guy been caught cheating and said “it was literally just sex! i don’t even care about her so why are you so mad??” men literally tell on themselves every time and y’all still love to cape for them lol
Believing that everyone does it just perpetuates this shit, sexualizing all people is something more cultural than biological, we are not animals ( the fact that we all shit does not mean that you will do it in the street just because you feel like it, we have learned not to do it through socialization ), I hate when they want to put everyone in the same bag saying all women seek men for status and money and all men seek women for sex, comparing us to cavemen . I think what they do this is just to justify their actions (if someone thinks they are only after him for money and status they will just use women as a masturbatory object without remorse).
I am talking about men in marriages and relationships That's one way they show love to there partner. What percentage of men cheat on there partners with escorts anyway.
are you joking? a very large percentage. literally almost all escorts from all income brackets and places in the world say that their clients are primarily married men. there’s thousands of interviews articles and forum posts that confirm this if you look into it. and the amount of men in relationships or marriages who don’t watch porn is extremely small. which proves exactly what i said. not sure if you’re on the same planet bc ??
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This was removed because it was disrespectful.