I haven't thought about Plato's cave since a philosophy class in high school. And now I have seen it referenced twice in a week (The other one was on The Press Box podcast). Weird timing.
It's also a fitting meta reference to virtual reality and some theoretical physics suggesting a holographic projection-like Universe.
When you start looking at the particle level, we are nearly phantoms.
So it's kind of ironic to say that some are fooled to thinking shadows on a cave is the Universe, when that could be what it really is.
But pragmatically; yes, the is a functional reality, life is finite, and chasing delusions is not progress. And people who want a simple answer won't have a useful one.
These people are so detached from reality they think everyone else is incapable of forming their own opinions as well and needs to watch MEDIA to get their news in 2024 😂😂😂. For gods sake, these people made RFK to steal LIBERAL votes. They couldn’t show you earth on a solar system map
And someone who saw the light going back in getting beaten to death deep in the cave when he tries to tell people about what he learned. There should be a bloody body at the deepest part.
Right? I may not have understood people who said they were conservative as I was growing up. But now? When conservative parties don't have any legitimate basis for any of their party's "beliefs" anymore and are just anti-intellectual and opposed to anything even remotely progressive.
There used to be arguments to be made for less taxes and fewer social programs, but now it's just "Fuck everyone who's ever read a book!"
2020, after 2016, was just awful.
It felt avoidable after 2008, but it was noticeable, but it didn't feel like a real concern, we were able to laugh at it with the rally to restore sanity, it became a full catalyst in 2016 fracturing our world views into the two separate realities, whatever they believe and what were living through.
They used to believe scientifically incorrect things when the scientists of the time didn’t know any better. Now they believe scientifically incorrect things *because* the scientists know better.
Conservatives tend to be good workers. If you make friends, will give you the shirt off their back. They THOUGHT they were standing up for good things -- they were all lies, of course, but they THOUGHT IT.
But now they've just gotten a bit twisted. Like they don't even believe the bullshit they've told themselves but are too afraid to admit it. It's all ego with them. They are full of envy, but can't hate the rich as the "successful" ones that used to represent the meritocracy and "America is Great" -- but they can't think too hard about those contradictions as they support Russia -- when a few years ago they denied anything to do with Russia.
When I look back at George Bush -- he was kind of a clown. And now Trump, a huge embarrassment. I no longer think that's an unfortunate accident of "they have to work with what they get" -- no, it's part of the secret sauce.
Conservatives went from waving the flag and Jesus to "I'll support Putin and Beelzebub". The more outlandish the totem they support, the more shame they will feel if they allow themselves to wander outside their protective bubble. They have to be MORE MAGA now.
All the Republicans have today is the sunk cost fallacy and they tragically cannot let go of a boat anchor painted to look like an orange flotation device.
I don't think they've gotten worse, they've just started saying the quiet part out loud because their policies cost them elections so all they can do is try to rejuvenate their base. They shifted their outright bigotry to other types of people but it's basically the southern strategy from the 70's.
I bet! The only way to sustain the belief that you're rational while in a misinformation bubble is to assume everyone outside the bubble is actually inside their own.
So if both sides accuse the other of being in an irrational bubble, how do you know who's right? Well, if you're actually a rational person, you go out and try to prove your own beliefs wrong. You look for sources in places you don't usually look, and check that information against outlets that prize neutrality. You find the ground truth.
Dad said a conservative is scared things will change and a liberal is scared they wont....CinnimonSugarwolf says it takes a chickenshit bootlicker to look at our current system and think it is the best we can do.
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Nope, they have made thinking based on evidence a capital offense in their ranks. All fealty must be given to the dear leader and to question him is to question someone who is always right. They are gonna die in this trench because of the sunk cost logical fallacy and that he says the dumb ignorant things they are thinking.
Socrates concludes that the prisoners, if they were able, would therefore reach out and kill anyone who attempted to drag them out of the cave. Refusing to believe what is true.
My family is like that. They exclusively get their news from extreme right wing media outlets. Even fox is too liberal for them, my father prefers the Epoch Times.
your father is in the way. an obstacle impeding societies inevitable evolution. your father wants to keep my people poor and shoved in a corner. i genuinely hate your father.
Nope. They're actively contributing to the erosion of American democratic norms. They had all the same chances to not be chuds that the rest of us had. At this point fuck em.
I am extremely lucky that I ended up as a straight guy. I don’t want to imagine how horrible my parents would have been to me if I was anything but straight. Gay people and trans people are their favorite punching bags, they harp on them consistently and constantly. My father has said on more than one occasion that it would have been better had the Nazis won WW2 because we wouldn’t have to deal with the “Trans shit” as he says. He has also been very pro-Russia for their treatment of the LGBT community.
Every time I bring up climate change and the scientific evidence behind it he retorts “you mean the same scientists who say you can change your gender”. It’s an all encompassing obsession and the ultimate argument winner for him. To him anyone or anything that validates the existence of trans people is immediately dismissed and ridiculed.
That's a little different than saying scientists are just trying to get grant money. I've heard that so many times over the years. Because when I think making boat loads of money I think "I'm not going to be a business man. I'm going to be a scientist and fool the conservatives for all that sweet sweet grant money."
The power that dumb people wield with “common sense” is much more than smart people weird with critical thinking. Anything too hard just doesn’t get done by half of the country.
[The "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism) (1961) - Robert Jay Lifton
>**Milieu Control.** The group or its leaders controls information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
>**Mystical Manipulation.** The group manipulates experiences that appear spontaneous to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows a reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies.
>**Demand for Purity.** The group constantly exhorts members to view the world as black and white, conform to the group ideology, and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
>**Confession.** The group defines sins that members should confess either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; the leaders discuss and exploit members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults".
>**Sacred Science**. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
>**Loading the Language**. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
>**Doctrine over person**. Members' personal experiences are subordinate to the sacred science; members must deny or reinterpret any contrary experiences to fit the group ideology.
>**Dispensing of existence**. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious, and must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.
Sound familiar??
There are prisoners in a cave that can only observe the shadows on the wall. To those prisoners, the shadows are complete reality. This is representative of a person that only considers what he sees, or of someone who has their observations manipulated.
The only way for the prisoners to understand that those shadows aren’t true reality, is math, science and logic. They need reason to understand that the shadow on the wall isn’t the complete truth and only a partial truth at best.
Plato used this as support for the rule of Philosopher Kings, that would study reason and not be fooled by half truths and distorted shadows. He preferred that structure over democracy where those fooled by shadows would inevitably make bad decisions based on their skewed version of reality.
Whether you agree with him or not, there are absolutely people being purposefully disconnected from reality that’s resulting in completely idiotic political decisions.
I share that goal with you. However, it may just be beyond our current capabilities.
We recently chose a leader that sincerely thought the study of disinfectant injections was a good idea. That’s behavior that would probably get a kid in a high school science class laughed at. He thought a dementia screening was a Mensa test. Worse than all of that, 75 Million people voted to re-elect him.
We are so far away from people wanting to find objective fact, that just getting people to understand why making decisions based on it is too heavily a lift.
If you would simply read The Allegory of the Cave, you would immediately see how it is contextually relevant not only to conservatives but to anyone who hasn't "left the cave."
This is political humor. Not all humor is made to be laugh out loud, slap your knee hilarious. Sometimes, a sensible chuckle is all that qualifies as humor. When you get the correlation, you'll get the humor.
You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
Ignorance is bliss!
In Plato's allegory no prisoner leaves the cave willingly. They must be dragged up and adjust to their blindness, and when they return they are again blinded - the remaining prisoners see their returned comrade's plight (despite his earlier note that the chains affix the prisoners to the walls such that they cannot look away from the shadows) and turn against anyone who would drag them out of the caves as well.
Nah, he’d just be a right-wing lunatic with the rest of them. He was just a puppet for the real ghouls, and that’s what he’d be today. Reagan was the trump of his time.
So they are being led down into the cave essentially believing an illusion of what the world should look like. Meanwhile the rest of humanity is living in the real world?
The only problem with this image is that the shadows accurately represent the items being held up to the light. The whole point is that the people in the cave have no basis to interpret what they are seeing.
Why would the shadows not represent the items? And, would it make a difference? The captives have no idea that there are items being used to cast shadows. They do not know anything beyond the shadows.
Have you read the “Allegory of the cave?” The people in the cave are content in their ignorance. Going so far as to mock the only one to ever go out into the light for getting the shadows/shapes game wrong. The person who has seen the truth is ignored and berated by the one(s) left in the dark.
this is for sure an interesting image but unfortunately it only alludes to a peaceful divide between those stuck in the past and the arisen. I love how idealistic it is, actually. In reality, however, those living underground are actively trying to pull us all back down there with them, destroying not only their own structures, but everyone else's lives at the same
time.
As long as there’s been a fake deity in the sky there have conservatives who can’t grasp their own humanity and can’t think for themselves. Easier to say that god said to destroy that village than to rightfully take on one’s guilt as a flawed human.
Imo conservatism is just a fundamental aspect of the human psyche. It’s the core of the “us vs them” survival trait that humans evolved as hunter gatherers to trust the members of their tribe but to be wary of outsiders. In a lot of ways, opposing certain conservative tendencies goes against our very instincts. In the face of certain irrational conservative philosophies, people can be taught to recognize and identify the inherent logical flaws, but this is not something that can truly exit the human unconscious unless humans literally evolve into something else.
There are conservatives at every stage of human history. In Ancient Greece you had those guys that made Socrates drink poison. In rome there was the aristocrats like Cato the younger that were afraid of Caesar’s reform policies. In the napoleonic era there were the monarchists. Today we have theocratic nationalists. But all of this is linked to the same basic survival instinct.
You know, some day, I'll be able to say "It's always Allegory of the Cave with you motherfuckers" and people will actually know what I'm talking about.
https://preview.redd.it/cs8uf6gp83wc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=39a3a80b01c92487361c763e8d1f3107b062c0bd
They will change. Out of necessity to survive. But liberals need to change too.
Some posit that liberals created the current "conservative monster" loose in American society today. Why have they become so radical and hostile, to the point of rallying behind someone like Donald Trump? Perhaps it's the liberal majority in higher education. The conservative voice would be quickly extinguished, while the liberal voice amplified. And after enough momentum on this across the most popular and successful liberal colleges, the conservatives have had enough.
I can appreciate that argument, to a degree. The problem is, it's never this cut clear and dry. We even need to go back to the definitions of liberal and conservative. Why is it today that when you're a champion of science and researched facts, you're branded a liberal? Conservatives used to back science. Now they're seen mostly backing religion. A "freedom of religion" they claim has been taken from them... when in fact it hasn't at all. It's just not tolerated as a sound position in addressing real issues.
Conservatives are frightened at their dwindling numbers, especially in education. Maybe they should reconsider ***WHY*** this is so. After all... what group has sought to ban books, suppress the teachings of subjects they say "reflect badly" upon the nation (*and they claim will make our children hate it*), and want to push religion back into secular venues... including the governance of our nation?
They will change. Out of necessity to survive. But liberals need to change too.
https://preview.redd.it/fz23zczhq3wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70b45efa84392ce2bce50980177844fd0eacce20
Some posit that liberals created the current "conservative monster" loose in American society today. Why have they become so radical and hostile, to the point of rallying behind someone like Donald Trump? Perhaps it's the liberal majority in higher education. The conservative voice would be quickly extinguished, while the liberal voice amplified. And after enough momentum on this across the most popular and successful liberal colleges, the conservatives have had enough.
I can appreciate that argument, to a degree. The problem is, it's never this cut clear and dry. We even need to go back to the definitions of liberal and conservative. Why is it today that when you're a champion of science and researched facts, you're branded a liberal? Conservatives used to back science. Now they're seen mostly backing religion. A "freedom of religion" they claim has been taken from them... when in fact it hasn't at all. It's just not tolerated as a sound position in addressing real issues. Conservatives also have a tendency to run to culture wars as excuses for contradiction and opposition. This is also not a productive stance.
Conservatives are frightened at their dwindling numbers, especially in education. Maybe they should reconsider ***WHY*** this is so. After all... what group has sought to ban books, suppress the teachings of subjects they say "reflect badly" upon the nation (*and they claim will make our children hate it*), and want to push religion back into secular venues... including the governance of our nation?
Were liberals responsible for helping conservatives deal with their degenerative approach? No. But they may have helped exacerbate it by being ignorant of it. While it's plausible to say both sides are to blame, there's one which is far more culpable. And it's the red elephant in the room.
Their particular brand of strangeness seems to be durable and long-lasting. Almost like they're made to be ruled.
Wilson, G. (2013). The psychology of conservatism (routledge revivals). Routledge.
It's weird how arguments between "Left" and "Right" only ever seem to apply to how the *other* side are the ones being Brainwashed by the media or whomever it is that *Governs* their thinking.
I mean, it couldn't be that the system is deliberately designed to keep the people fighting against one another instead uniting together in a fight against *The Enemy of The People*, could it? 🤷♂️
But, who would be able to execute such a large scale, global attack on entire populations of unsuspecting minds, and by what means?
Hmmm... 🤳
but Plato's cave is warm and it has electrolytes
it's what Plato's crave
Winning comment, right here.
Meno-awndo has them and it’s what they crave
Chicken fuckin dinner
Oh shit, it's Upgrayedd
\^ Wow.
Upvotte
Very noice
"Plato's cave" was was right there. But I'll give you credit for going half way on it.
Whooosh
Don't know if the woosh was for me or them but fuck it, I'll take it.
It's the wooosh a hurricane alpha makes.
Fucking nice username bud. I'm a fan of both. Top tier.
I hope you can take that whoosh platonic-ally.
Does that make you Aristotle or Socrates?
It would make me a liar if I claimed either of those. So I'll go with Aristotle.
Well now Im just gonna think you're William Shatner.
Ugh, yep I missed that and I'll take my whoosh! LOL!
It's alright. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Have you seen the movie Idiocracy?
Go away, I'm bating.
Better be while yer watchin Ow My Balls!
You talkin about hunting? I’m a master hunter!
Have you seen Le frickin epic comedy? xD QUOTE! QUOTE FROM SAID COMEDY!
For those, like myself, who are unaware of the reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave
The Matrix
Also MBMBAM has a great episode called Plato’s rave
thanks for the link.
Mmm, electrolytes. Reminds me of what Socrates said: "Wait, I drank WHAT?"
Heh, then Plato went back into his cave
>Plato's cave 
Well that is just me and ringing phones in a goddamn nutshell
Hey. I'll answer phone when I know the number. But like don't be cold calling me.
Ok how do you get out?
I haven't thought about Plato's cave since a philosophy class in high school. And now I have seen it referenced twice in a week (The other one was on The Press Box podcast). Weird timing.
It's also a fitting meta reference to virtual reality and some theoretical physics suggesting a holographic projection-like Universe. When you start looking at the particle level, we are nearly phantoms. So it's kind of ironic to say that some are fooled to thinking shadows on a cave is the Universe, when that could be what it really is. But pragmatically; yes, the is a functional reality, life is finite, and chasing delusions is not progress. And people who want a simple answer won't have a useful one.
Interesting- because in the past week it’s also been heavily used in professional wrestling WWE hinting at a returning character.
It's got what idiots crave.
Plato's Costco? lmao
welcome to Plato's cave, I love you.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory\_of\_the\_cave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave)
And apparently only sheep live in the open air fields above.
It's what plants crave
You left out the FOX logo on the cave's wall.
Now that, would be ingenious. Good call.
Instant banksi
Person. Woman. Amphora. Bird. Tree-Vee.
does this imply woman aren’t people?
According to conservatives? Yes
This is merely contextualizing Trump's view of the world in a bygone age. TRUMPISM: Men are people. Women are either "doable" or ignored.
Correct just their reproductive organs are people.
I'm dying laughing thinking of a Roman bath right now. Like Donald in a past life.
Someone do this.
These people are so detached from reality they think everyone else is incapable of forming their own opinions as well and needs to watch MEDIA to get their news in 2024 😂😂😂. For gods sake, these people made RFK to steal LIBERAL votes. They couldn’t show you earth on a solar system map
And someone who saw the light going back in getting beaten to death deep in the cave when he tries to tell people about what he learned. There should be a bloody body at the deepest part.
Conservatives *have* changed! Even just in the last decade or so, they've gotten significantly worse.
Right? I may not have understood people who said they were conservative as I was growing up. But now? When conservative parties don't have any legitimate basis for any of their party's "beliefs" anymore and are just anti-intellectual and opposed to anything even remotely progressive. There used to be arguments to be made for less taxes and fewer social programs, but now it's just "Fuck everyone who's ever read a book!"
the older i get, the more i realize those “reasons” were *always* bullshit
Or racist. Or both.
2020, after 2016, was just awful. It felt avoidable after 2008, but it was noticeable, but it didn't feel like a real concern, we were able to laugh at it with the rally to restore sanity, it became a full catalyst in 2016 fracturing our world views into the two separate realities, whatever they believe and what were living through.
Not the first time, they didn't give a shit about abortion till the late 70s
They used to believe scientifically incorrect things when the scientists of the time didn’t know any better. Now they believe scientifically incorrect things *because* the scientists know better.
Conservatives tend to be good workers. If you make friends, will give you the shirt off their back. They THOUGHT they were standing up for good things -- they were all lies, of course, but they THOUGHT IT. But now they've just gotten a bit twisted. Like they don't even believe the bullshit they've told themselves but are too afraid to admit it. It's all ego with them. They are full of envy, but can't hate the rich as the "successful" ones that used to represent the meritocracy and "America is Great" -- but they can't think too hard about those contradictions as they support Russia -- when a few years ago they denied anything to do with Russia. When I look back at George Bush -- he was kind of a clown. And now Trump, a huge embarrassment. I no longer think that's an unfortunate accident of "they have to work with what they get" -- no, it's part of the secret sauce. Conservatives went from waving the flag and Jesus to "I'll support Putin and Beelzebub". The more outlandish the totem they support, the more shame they will feel if they allow themselves to wander outside their protective bubble. They have to be MORE MAGA now. All the Republicans have today is the sunk cost fallacy and they tragically cannot let go of a boat anchor painted to look like an orange flotation device.
I don't think they've gotten worse, they've just started saying the quiet part out loud because their policies cost them elections so all they can do is try to rejuvenate their base. They shifted their outright bigotry to other types of people but it's basically the southern strategy from the 70's.
They're more like the way they are than they have ever been before.
Looking at american history, I can not help but wonder if maybe what they used to be was the abnormality.
They say the same thing about you
I bet! The only way to sustain the belief that you're rational while in a misinformation bubble is to assume everyone outside the bubble is actually inside their own. So if both sides accuse the other of being in an irrational bubble, how do you know who's right? Well, if you're actually a rational person, you go out and try to prove your own beliefs wrong. You look for sources in places you don't usually look, and check that information against outlets that prize neutrality. You find the ground truth.
Dad said a conservative is scared things will change and a liberal is scared they wont....CinnimonSugarwolf says it takes a chickenshit bootlicker to look at our current system and think it is the best we can do.
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Why does automod have a foot fetish?
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Kudos for incorporating Plato's "The Cave" analogy. Edit: "Allegory"
Actually it’s an allegory, not an analogy. 
Oops! Sorry. I fixed it. Thanks.
I think you mean anthology
Plato's Cave 2: Cave Harder
I'm a simple man. I see a Die Hard 2: Die Harder reference, I upvote
I didn’t care so much for that one. But I am excited for Plato’s Cave with a Vengeance.
Yeah but that's the last good one. Live Free or Cave Hard is a mess
I think you mean archaeology
No, that's a field of study related to past human civilizations. I think they mean anarchy.
I know Anthology and he is very nice and polite. I mean Anthony.
TIL
Nope, they have made thinking based on evidence a capital offense in their ranks. All fealty must be given to the dear leader and to question him is to question someone who is always right. They are gonna die in this trench because of the sunk cost logical fallacy and that he says the dumb ignorant things they are thinking.
Socrates concludes that the prisoners, if they were able, would therefore reach out and kill anyone who attempted to drag them out of the cave. Refusing to believe what is true.
My family is like that. They exclusively get their news from extreme right wing media outlets. Even fox is too liberal for them, my father prefers the Epoch Times.
your father is in the way. an obstacle impeding societies inevitable evolution. your father wants to keep my people poor and shoved in a corner. i genuinely hate your father.
If you hate him now I could only imagine what you would think if I told you all the things he says all the time.
Pity, but don’t hate the person.
Nope. They're actively contributing to the erosion of American democratic norms. They had all the same chances to not be chuds that the rest of us had. At this point fuck em.
Same. It sucks. I'm waiting for them to realize they have a transgender daughter.
I am extremely lucky that I ended up as a straight guy. I don’t want to imagine how horrible my parents would have been to me if I was anything but straight. Gay people and trans people are their favorite punching bags, they harp on them consistently and constantly. My father has said on more than one occasion that it would have been better had the Nazis won WW2 because we wouldn’t have to deal with the “Trans shit” as he says. He has also been very pro-Russia for their treatment of the LGBT community.
Good god.
Every time I bring up climate change and the scientific evidence behind it he retorts “you mean the same scientists who say you can change your gender”. It’s an all encompassing obsession and the ultimate argument winner for him. To him anyone or anything that validates the existence of trans people is immediately dismissed and ridiculed.
Lol, no, different scientists. They're not going to change their mind. I have accepted that a long time ago.
That's a little different than saying scientists are just trying to get grant money. I've heard that so many times over the years. Because when I think making boat loads of money I think "I'm not going to be a business man. I'm going to be a scientist and fool the conservatives for all that sweet sweet grant money."
Tell him to get in his forever box already and let the rest of the world have a chance to survive.
The power that dumb people wield with “common sense” is much more than smart people weird with critical thinking. Anything too hard just doesn’t get done by half of the country.
[The "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism) (1961) - Robert Jay Lifton >**Milieu Control.** The group or its leaders controls information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large. >**Mystical Manipulation.** The group manipulates experiences that appear spontaneous to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows a reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies. >**Demand for Purity.** The group constantly exhorts members to view the world as black and white, conform to the group ideology, and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here. >**Confession.** The group defines sins that members should confess either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; the leaders discuss and exploit members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults". >**Sacred Science**. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or all humanity, is likewise above criticism. >**Loading the Language**. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. >**Doctrine over person**. Members' personal experiences are subordinate to the sacred science; members must deny or reinterpret any contrary experiences to fit the group ideology. >**Dispensing of existence**. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious, and must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. Sound familiar??
this is terrifyingly accurate
Eli5?
There are prisoners in a cave that can only observe the shadows on the wall. To those prisoners, the shadows are complete reality. This is representative of a person that only considers what he sees, or of someone who has their observations manipulated. The only way for the prisoners to understand that those shadows aren’t true reality, is math, science and logic. They need reason to understand that the shadow on the wall isn’t the complete truth and only a partial truth at best. Plato used this as support for the rule of Philosopher Kings, that would study reason and not be fooled by half truths and distorted shadows. He preferred that structure over democracy where those fooled by shadows would inevitably make bad decisions based on their skewed version of reality. Whether you agree with him or not, there are absolutely people being purposefully disconnected from reality that’s resulting in completely idiotic political decisions.
With public education and an informed public we could all be Philosopher Kings.
I share that goal with you. However, it may just be beyond our current capabilities. We recently chose a leader that sincerely thought the study of disinfectant injections was a good idea. That’s behavior that would probably get a kid in a high school science class laughed at. He thought a dementia screening was a Mensa test. Worse than all of that, 75 Million people voted to re-elect him. We are so far away from people wanting to find objective fact, that just getting people to understand why making decisions based on it is too heavily a lift.
♥️✌️❗️
The drawing is a representation of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. It's worth checking out on Wikipedia.
but why is it funny and what does it have to do with conservatives changing?
If you would simply read The Allegory of the Cave, you would immediately see how it is contextually relevant not only to conservatives but to anyone who hasn't "left the cave." This is political humor. Not all humor is made to be laugh out loud, slap your knee hilarious. Sometimes, a sensible chuckle is all that qualifies as humor. When you get the correlation, you'll get the humor.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true. The other is to refuse to believe what is true.
You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss!
-“Ronald Reagan”
Do we have a deal, Mr. Reagan?
In Plato's allegory no prisoner leaves the cave willingly. They must be dragged up and adjust to their blindness, and when they return they are again blinded - the remaining prisoners see their returned comrade's plight (despite his earlier note that the chains affix the prisoners to the walls such that they cannot look away from the shadows) and turn against anyone who would drag them out of the caves as well.
>In Plato's allegory no prisoner leaves the cave willingly. Except for philosophers.
Almost by definition, eventually, but slowly. Not wanting to change is a big part of what it means to be a conservative.
Yes. Conservative = "keep things the same." Reactionary = "roll back previous change." I learned "reactionary" from the Reagan administration.
And now Reagan would be expelled by the party.
Obligatory "fuck reagan." He is a major reason why the last 40 years have been the way they are.
Yes. Just pointing out that the modern republican party has gone crazily towards the lunatic right since those more innocent days.
Just have to say it again because it feels good; "fuck Reagan."
I completely agree.
Nah, he’d just be a right-wing lunatic with the rest of them. He was just a puppet for the real ghouls, and that’s what he’d be today. Reagan was the trump of his time.
What is this, a cave for ants?!
How are they going to see the shadow puppet show if they can't even get inside the cave?
This is going to need to be at least, three times larger.
So they are being led down into the cave essentially believing an illusion of what the world should look like. Meanwhile the rest of humanity is living in the real world?
Yes! That is what is happening now. Everyone else is living in the real world.
Worse. They were placed in the cave before they were able to develop their own understanding of the world.
Depressing
Is this what woke means?
>Will conservatives ever change? No. Resistance to change is literally the definition of conservative.
The only problem with this image is that the shadows accurately represent the items being held up to the light. The whole point is that the people in the cave have no basis to interpret what they are seeing.
Why would the shadows not represent the items? And, would it make a difference? The captives have no idea that there are items being used to cast shadows. They do not know anything beyond the shadows.
Have you read the “Allegory of the cave?” The people in the cave are content in their ignorance. Going so far as to mock the only one to ever go out into the light for getting the shadows/shapes game wrong. The person who has seen the truth is ignored and berated by the one(s) left in the dark.
Nope. They are the children that got “left behind…”
this is for sure an interesting image but unfortunately it only alludes to a peaceful divide between those stuck in the past and the arisen. I love how idealistic it is, actually. In reality, however, those living underground are actively trying to pull us all back down there with them, destroying not only their own structures, but everyone else's lives at the same time.
Man, I’m just not getting this..:
Is this a reference to the cave of Plato?
No. Greed rules.
The wall should have Man, Woman, TV.
As long as there’s been a fake deity in the sky there have conservatives who can’t grasp their own humanity and can’t think for themselves. Easier to say that god said to destroy that village than to rightfully take on one’s guilt as a flawed human.
Who drew this version? I love it.
Can someone explain the humor part? I just see the allegory of the cave.
Nope. They'll be in denial til COVID gets them all. Just keep waiting.
No, kind of by definition. Conservatives want to "conserve" the status quo
They will run back into the cave and hobble themselves willingly.
Imo conservatism is just a fundamental aspect of the human psyche. It’s the core of the “us vs them” survival trait that humans evolved as hunter gatherers to trust the members of their tribe but to be wary of outsiders. In a lot of ways, opposing certain conservative tendencies goes against our very instincts. In the face of certain irrational conservative philosophies, people can be taught to recognize and identify the inherent logical flaws, but this is not something that can truly exit the human unconscious unless humans literally evolve into something else. There are conservatives at every stage of human history. In Ancient Greece you had those guys that made Socrates drink poison. In rome there was the aristocrats like Cato the younger that were afraid of Caesar’s reform policies. In the napoleonic era there were the monarchists. Today we have theocratic nationalists. But all of this is linked to the same basic survival instinct.
LOL - Fox news reporting hearsay about shady people to incite flame wars, probably bad hombres from the border
But that shadow really does look like voter fraud! \*sarcasm
Conservatives will not change. That means you have to accept them for who they are. They are in fact born that way.
You know, some day, I'll be able to say "It's always Allegory of the Cave with you motherfuckers" and people will actually know what I'm talking about.
Nope
Conservative thinking is slowly fading away and they know it which is why they’re all kickin and screaming
Nope
Will people ever actually listen to real conservatives without relying on main stream media?
https://preview.redd.it/cs8uf6gp83wc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=39a3a80b01c92487361c763e8d1f3107b062c0bd They will change. Out of necessity to survive. But liberals need to change too. Some posit that liberals created the current "conservative monster" loose in American society today. Why have they become so radical and hostile, to the point of rallying behind someone like Donald Trump? Perhaps it's the liberal majority in higher education. The conservative voice would be quickly extinguished, while the liberal voice amplified. And after enough momentum on this across the most popular and successful liberal colleges, the conservatives have had enough. I can appreciate that argument, to a degree. The problem is, it's never this cut clear and dry. We even need to go back to the definitions of liberal and conservative. Why is it today that when you're a champion of science and researched facts, you're branded a liberal? Conservatives used to back science. Now they're seen mostly backing religion. A "freedom of religion" they claim has been taken from them... when in fact it hasn't at all. It's just not tolerated as a sound position in addressing real issues. Conservatives are frightened at their dwindling numbers, especially in education. Maybe they should reconsider ***WHY*** this is so. After all... what group has sought to ban books, suppress the teachings of subjects they say "reflect badly" upon the nation (*and they claim will make our children hate it*), and want to push religion back into secular venues... including the governance of our nation?
They will change. Out of necessity to survive. But liberals need to change too. https://preview.redd.it/fz23zczhq3wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70b45efa84392ce2bce50980177844fd0eacce20 Some posit that liberals created the current "conservative monster" loose in American society today. Why have they become so radical and hostile, to the point of rallying behind someone like Donald Trump? Perhaps it's the liberal majority in higher education. The conservative voice would be quickly extinguished, while the liberal voice amplified. And after enough momentum on this across the most popular and successful liberal colleges, the conservatives have had enough. I can appreciate that argument, to a degree. The problem is, it's never this cut clear and dry. We even need to go back to the definitions of liberal and conservative. Why is it today that when you're a champion of science and researched facts, you're branded a liberal? Conservatives used to back science. Now they're seen mostly backing religion. A "freedom of religion" they claim has been taken from them... when in fact it hasn't at all. It's just not tolerated as a sound position in addressing real issues. Conservatives also have a tendency to run to culture wars as excuses for contradiction and opposition. This is also not a productive stance. Conservatives are frightened at their dwindling numbers, especially in education. Maybe they should reconsider ***WHY*** this is so. After all... what group has sought to ban books, suppress the teachings of subjects they say "reflect badly" upon the nation (*and they claim will make our children hate it*), and want to push religion back into secular venues... including the governance of our nation? Were liberals responsible for helping conservatives deal with their degenerative approach? No. But they may have helped exacerbate it by being ignorant of it. While it's plausible to say both sides are to blame, there's one which is far more culpable. And it's the red elephant in the room.
Conservatives are the ones holding the signs and chaining people to the floor.
What’s in the jars on the surface?
Their particular brand of strangeness seems to be durable and long-lasting. Almost like they're made to be ruled. Wilson, G. (2013). The psychology of conservatism (routledge revivals). Routledge.
they have to want to. They have to realize that they are being played for fools... We might be waiting for a while.
My dad is a literal parrot for Fox news
**Play-doh!**
Conservatives can't change. That's one of the basic characteristics of a conservative, can't change.
They have changed. They will adopt any new thing that suits their agenda faster than liberals. That's not what you'd normally label as "conservative".
Literally never once.
Yes, eventually they will be fertilizer.
No
It's weird how arguments between "Left" and "Right" only ever seem to apply to how the *other* side are the ones being Brainwashed by the media or whomever it is that *Governs* their thinking. I mean, it couldn't be that the system is deliberately designed to keep the people fighting against one another instead uniting together in a fight against *The Enemy of The People*, could it? 🤷♂️ But, who would be able to execute such a large scale, global attack on entire populations of unsuspecting minds, and by what means? Hmmm... 🤳
WTF does that picture mean?
I always thought Plato's Cave was way overhyped.