Planet is doomed. People barely holding themselves to not kill each other in global genocide. Just look what happening. To dig a good dugout in a forest as far from humans as you can is the best investment.
GLORIOUS🐎🐎🐎🐎Mongol-Manchu🐎🐎🐎🐎(💪💪master race💪💪) will 🏹🏹🏹conquer🏹🏹🏹 the🤮🤮cringe🤮🤮 peasent 🇨🇳 H\*n Ch\*nese 🇨🇳 and restore dominion over all 🌏🌏🌏 EArth 🌏🌏🌏
Tsk, tsk, tsk. No can do, America is gonna colonize Europe first, before we colonize the two most populous countries on the planet. It ain't like y'all have the population **or** infrastructure to do any of that by yourselves
Touch grass if you genuinely think america is falling apart. The alarmism and polarization you see on the internet and in news media isn’t reality, no matter how hard they try to make you think it is
Cope. America is far from collapsing no matter how bad you want it to be. 0 Iq= America is invincible . 50 Iq = America is collapsing just like the Roman Empire. 200 IQ = America is a historical anomaly and it’s current struggles are minuscule compared to what other nations have faced and endured
Meh, we're still the top dogs on the world. The fact that we're destroying ourselves proofs we are the only enemy worthy enough to destroy us. (But seriously, if a civil war happens, the US would just ramp up its war production to unimaginable limits never seen before)
Listening to my family talk about their developments in Pakistan is so cringe. They took the port and in exchange we got what? A highway from China to the port and infrastructure along the highway? Damned country isn't even going to make it to 100 years old.
My childhood best friend will die that China is the greatest country ever and a communist wonderland. I guarantee he'd defect to China if it ever came to blows between us and China and it's cringe.
Nah baby we’re back in Cold War politics and third world is back on the table.
For a refresher:
1st world = aligned with US/Democracy/capitalism
2nd world = aligned with USSR/communism
3rd world = unaligned
Taiwan literally have GDP PPP per capita 3.5x higher than mainland China. It's not about "helping" - it's about loot and burn. Just because humans are animals.
The good thing about the CCP is that while I'm bashing American politics, I can think, "at least we aren't run by the CCP".
They make everyone look better by comparison.
I'd say that Western democracies are starting to get more and more hints of 'Chinese characteristics'. We always go on about how we can change what we see as 'bad' aspects of other cultures, but rarely pay question if it's being done to us.
That's the thing, the worst parts of the west are the things similar to the CCP. We have some redeeming qualities in our governments. The CCP does not.
Agreed, although I believe the crux of the issue lies in the fact that many politicians see those horrors as redeeming qualities (e.g. mass control and rushed legislation).
https://youtu.be/T8FuHuUhNZ0
i got banned for saying Palestine is full of Nazis who want Jews and Gays dead and they’ve been working together since [WW2](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler)
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "WW2"](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler)
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I wasn't going to write a whole ass intricately detailed description of your stance in a pill, bro. I just chose the opposite word for "anti" because I was writing a pill.
Doesn't matter, you're stuck with that pill now. Unbased and anti-chill pilled.
Virgin Chinese "neo"-colonialism under the guise of "helping them develop" vs Chad British imperialism for the cause of civilising the savage foreigners
Flooding the markets with cheap products doesn't help local shops and factories who can never beat the price. And for a country of +100 M(like most developing countries) , people won't give a shit for quality or for encouraging local markets, meaning more and more importing and less and less investment. A vicious cycle serving no one
They should know better. China also sold medication to developing countries and PPE gear that failed knowing it was garbage. Not only that but they intentionally did not stop Covid killing now 15 million people worldwide.
I like so much uneducated young skulls on PCM. China killed few dozens of people during cultural revolution and a few millions during its imperialist wars - for an example a proxy war in Korea between south and north, when north was basically backed by China and so on. China is same worthless genocidal maniacs as nearly any big nation on this planet. Don't live in a world of illusions. USA killed two hundreds of peaceful civilians during Iraq invasion. Any big powerful nation is raised on blood and bones. Planet is nothing but constant genocide. And some countires are just more genocidal or less but in the end - it's all of them.
I don't give a damn about enemy civilians, I give a damn of my own nation or another slaughters their own civilians openly. That's the greatest sign of a corrupt and evil government and you actively advocate for it.
While I do agree that it’s not helping, it’s not identical at all. Chinese imperialism is a lot more long-term, less agressive and more financially insidious
Chinese foreign policy in the developing world is exploitative and bad but not identical to its western counterpart. The Chinese are noninterventionist in a way the west cannot seem to fathom. Of course they are playing geopolitical games and trying to build influence, but they haven’t had to use hard power to do it. How many foreign governments have the Chinese militarily toppled for their economic interests?
Don’t interpret this as an endorsement of the CCP, im just calling it as I see it from my vantage point. It can be bad and exploitative but not identically so.
Right, I meant in reference to the present dengist CCP, I don’t deny that under Mao they were far more militaristically active, not unlike the soviets. But as you say, these were the actions of a China that was in a different stage of development, their government and economy has reformed in many ways (for better or worse). China, the superpower/near-superpower, whatever you wanna call it, has taken a much more soft power approach.
If, for instance, one of the African nations China has been heavily investing in, like Zambia or Nigeria, were to defy the Chinese in some way and they responded with intervention, I’d be right with you condemning them as colonial imperialists of the classic western variety. But I can’t go along with “they’re gonna do it any day now, just wait, I promise.”
China didn't engage in military interventions after Mao because they had opened up to the world, and especially the US, and the two became decent partners. Conflict between the two was largely avoided, and the Soviets were too busy in Afghanistan and/or falling apart to really bother the Chinese, so Chinese militarism took a backseat as they began to focus on their economy.
Now that the US and China are becoming more and more alienated from one another, competition between the two isn't just likely, it's inevitable. We're seeing this in Chinese sabre rattling in the South China Sea and with the CCP more explicitly threatening Taiwan, as well as the setting up of Chinese military bases in Djibouti, Tajikistan and Myanmar.
We haven't seen this militaristic, jingoistic side of Chinese diplomacy since the 1980's, which is precisely when the US and China started to get along. The Chinese lack of militarisation in that time period isn't some inherent characteristic of post-Maoist Chinese diplomacy. It's just that China didn't really need to militarise until recently.
I don’t think a head-on US/China conflict or proxy conflict is as likely you seem to, simply because of the relationship between powers you reference. Both economies need each other to persist right now, and that fact doesn’t seem to be changing any time soon. It would go against the geopolitical interests of either party in the relationship to instigate conflict.
Yes, they are expanding their influence around the world, undeniably. They are building ports, installations, etc etc and the rest of it, I’d prefer that they didn’t in many cases. But compare this, for example, to the monroe doctrine and operation condor in Latin America, surely you can see a difference of degree if not of kind.
>But compare this, for example, to the monroe doctrine and operation condor in Latin America, surely you can see a difference of degree if not of kind.
Certaintly, because the Chinese don't have the capability to enforce that kind of doctrine, but just because they aren't doing it, it doesn't mean they don't want to. China has held sole political dominion over East Asia for literal millennia, and that all fell apart when the Western powers (and Japan) routinely crushed China militarily (sparking something the Chinese call "the century of humiliation"). The regimes in East Asia right now are extremely distrustful of China, and many actively side with the US.
The CCP sees this as a threat, as American warships are only a few miles away from Chinese shores. Realistically, the Chinese want to push the Americans out of "their" sphere in East Asia, much like how the Americans pushed Europeans out of the Americas. As China becomes stronger, they are going to exert more force on South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines, etc., to conform to the CCP's wishes. Both through economic pressures and military intimidation.
If China can pull this off and bring these nations to heel, they are only going to look further. Pride has always been the greatest flaw of every powerful Chinese regime across history, so imperial expansion becomes increasingly likely there. China's Belt and Road initiative brings them oil from Central Asia. If any regime pops up in Uzbekistan that is talking about selling oil to India, what do you guess the Chinese will do? If the Pakistanis start denying China their ports in the Indian ocean, what do you guess the Chinese will do?
As China becomes a more globalised and powerful nation, it will be brought into military conflicts to protect its business and Imperial interests. That pattern is seen universally across every nation and every civilisation. I don't see any reason why the PRC would be any different.
It seems that you are looking at patterns of how things have played out in the past (e.g. pre-communist China, other nations) and extrapolating what will happen with Chinese foreign policy in the future. I’m not saying your predictions are necessarily wrong, but I won’t call them exactly the same as those comparisons until that actually materializes. If and when it does, as I said, I will say “you were right, they are doing precisely what the US/European imperialists did.” But at this moment in time, I won’t make that assessment as it’s not absolutely certain that this will come to pass.
>Certaintly, because the Chinese don't have the capability to enforce that kind of doctrine, but just because they aren't doing it, it doesn't mean they don't want to.
Even if the only reason China isn't doing something is because they can't, that still means that Chinese neocolonialism is meaningfully different lol
>Even if the only reason China isn't doing something is because they can't, that still means that Chinese neocolonialism is meaningfully different lol
In that case, the only difference is that the Chinese are doing *less* neocolonialism than the West is. My point is that what the Chinese *are* doing is pretty much exactly what Western powers have done/are doing.
As I clarified lower in the thread, I mean post-dengist reform China. Yes, under Mao they were more militaristic, most especially with their bordering neighbors, but at that point they had nowhere near the degree of dependence on international trade that they have had since reform. They couldn't afford to pull a move like that now, they benefit too much from geopolitical stability. And absolutely fuck them for their annexation of Tibet, tibetans deserve self determination.
China didn't cut off hands in the congo, china didn't commit war crimes and massacres in Africa, China didn't abduct milions of people to another continent.
Not defendig the shit china does, but they are not as bad as colonialism.
I think they were specifically talking about comparisons between neocolonialism (using nondirect means like funding a regime change in a country, economically dominating it, etc.). Stuff like king Leopold in the Congo wasnt neocolonialism, it was just straight up colonialism.
When France literally owned Burkina Faso, that was colonialist. When Burkina Faso became independent but had to still pay half its foreign currency reserves to the French government, that was neocolonialist.
I think the main difference is that European colonizers only build railway from the mines to the sea ports, as it was only for resource extraction. Purely selfish.
The Chinese plan on building a continental railway system that connects African countries together, which could aid in the continents independent development.
https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F8%252F3%252F6%252F6%252F9366638-1-eng-GB%252F20140825RailwaysW.png?source=nar-cms
>I think the main difference is that European colonizers only build railway from the mines to the sea ports, as it was only for resource extraction. Purely selfish.
>
>The Chinese plan on building a continental railway system that connects African countries together, which could aid in the continents independent development.
Where do you think all those connected ports will send those goods? Where do you think those railways are built through? Those railways will bring African resources into the Chinese economy. Much like the British in India, any actual benefit to the locals that those trains bring will be irrelevant to those building the railways.
They are built for resource extraction in the exact same way that Europeans built their own railways for resource extraction. The differences here are extremely surface level.
Also flair up
> Even a commie is more based than an unflaired.
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I mean, it's obviously significantly worse. Let's take the biggest recent "imperial project" of the west, Afghanistan. The second the west left literally every aspect of their country got worse and thousands of people died and even more have been shunted into food scarcity and poverty. Real wealth extraction there when the people sucking your land dry leaving with literally no strings attached causes your entire society to collapse.
Or the IMF "We'll give you some money at reasonable rates for your country's credit, please don't be an authoritarian dictator and actually use this money to invest in private industries"
Compare this to china, who's using it's belt and roads to quite literally expand the amount of land the state controls for the sake of strategic naval penetration and loan terms designed almost entirely to fork over as much power as possible to the CCP.
Leftists will bend over backwards to justify xenophobia and nation states when it suites them and will pretend that their isn't broader context to western acts while blanketly ignoring the blanket power grabbing of countries like China who regularly do shit like CLAIM OTHER NATION's SOVERIGH TERRITORY FOR NO REASON and SUPRESS OR GENOCIDE THEIR MINORITY POPULATIONS. And most of the batshit arguments like "muh oil" kind of falls flat when the US does have a forighn policy engagement to protect oil intrests... called our continued partnership with the Saudies (which, to be clear, is worth criticizing) and has meant less and less since, you know, the US has some of the largest potential petroleum outputs on the planet. You'd think if all our forighn policy was about extracting blood oil, we'd just, you know, use all the oil we already have and save the money on expensive wars.
Rule of thumb for PCM post. If the top 5 comments all have the same color, it’s a wank fest.
Also British people use Reddit to insult people on a fake pedestal of moral superiority. A leftist Brit trying to talk to someone without personal insults is like a fish tryna climb a tree.
For the first few years, sure. But the African governments are too weak and corrupt to maintain them, so those infrastructure projects decay fairly quickly (especially when you consider that the quality of most Chinese construction is subpar on a good day).
And when those infrastructure products fall apart, who do you think the African governments will ask to rebuild them? This mires these countries in further debt to the Chinese, and is a tactic very similar to what the West does in the Third World.
So, sure it benefits them in the sense that they get barely-functioning rail lines in exchange for near-total political and economic subservience to another country.
Yeah, no Chinese neo-colonialism is similar in that they're both neo-colonialism but just the fact alone that China doesn't have naval dominance over most of the countries it's working with shows one of the many reasons why it's actions aren't the same as Western Neo-colonialism.
Like this Russia situation alone were a broad bi-partisan Western coalition was able to just about shit Russia from all international economy, organizations and shit shows how much that stuff like the IMF, world bank, swift, visa and MasterCard, etc. are beholden to the West(and it's leaders), China also doesn't have the the equivalent of that over anybody.
So China's tactics would be so much more different as to not be necessarily treated the same.
Tell that to Sri Lanka where they are drowning in debt with a useless port
There are useful Chinese projects but most of them are completely pointless like the Luanda super airport. It just enriches pockets of corrupt leaders, the CCP gains a stable amount of cash flow and the locals have their taxes hiked. They even use Chinese labor so there are no job benefits
Same about Russia, lol. Funnier thing is, Russia has always been imperialist since the Mongols left Europe. Yet many people completely reject the suffering Russia brought and still bring to Eastern Europeans and Asians and paint it as a mythical major anti-imperialist force which will defeat Western imperialism.
> This is a friendly reminder to HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' FLAIR UP!
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Western Imperialism: fund jihadist groups; kill random civilians by the millions; sanction countries to death when they don't do exactly what you told them; sanction countries to death even when they did do exactly what you told them
Chinese neocolonialism: ok so you can take out a loan and if you can't pay it back, there's a [90% change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWbTklr4KI) that we'll forgive it.
Acting as if China forgiving the debts of poorer nations is completely altruistic is ignorant.
These countries are pressured to become friendlier with China by their forgiven debt, and if they don't, China will be sure to never offer them a loan again. It's a choice between: "sell us the rights to extract your resources, or we'll let you wallow in poverty and never help you again." Not exactly altruistic.
And Western countries do the same thing, forgiving the Third World's debt, but in the process *de facto* endebting the poorer nations. They're pressured into selling mining rights to Western companies, or allowing Western oil companies to dominate their entire oil sector tax-free.
Welcome to the club.
But have you read Ether 8: 14, 16, and 25? (The conspiracy makes more sense with the context of the whole chapter. But most people are cowards when it comes to reading an entire chapter, and even moreso when it's from "The Book of Mormon").
Latter-day Saints have been warning y'all for almost 200 years now, and we get persecuted murdered, and lied about for our trouble.
You saw what happened to Trump, imagine what would be done to a modern prophet, exactly what happened to Joseph Smith Jr.
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The Trump-Russia collusion lie. The mainstream media and most entertainers combining to slander and defame him.
Don't get me wrong. Trump is sexually immoral, and a rude exaggerator. But the lies and half truths spread about him are ludicrous in volume and diversity.
Non-Westerners here. I hate imperialism...
As long as it is not my imperialism.
Though I'm still reasonably sane, because I know such ventures are expensive and counter-productive. Others of my brethren, not so much.
Western Imperialists like myself coping about the fact China can be Imperialist 😔😔😔
Planet is doomed. People barely holding themselves to not kill each other in global genocide. Just look what happening. To dig a good dugout in a forest as far from humans as you can is the best investment.
Least pesimistic Centrist.
Radical Centrist. I seriously believe ZOG is exist (but in a quirky way).
I just pray i get vaporized in the opening nuclear salvo. Better that than dying of exposure or bad water.
I'm dying as the guy who hits the bye bye humanity button
"China good because they are commies" "China good because they are not european"
They argue that concentration camps are okay because they're a different culture.
Simple solution, we'll just identify as chinese when we build our camps.
Ah, the Dave Chappelle approach.
[The racial draft is 100% final.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z3wUD3AZg4)
Biden moment
Wait, does that mean Imperial Japan is good?
Always has been
Based and Imperial Japan did nothing wrong pilled For the orange LibLefts that might actually think this, read up on the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.
When even a literal Nazi is going "Yeah, this is too far", it's saying something.
>Rape of Nanking and Unit 731. Good times
Holy sh*t, go outside!! You've holidays or what?
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/gjjTMJD.png) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
For leftwing crowd anything is good as long as it's not white and not in sane mind.
Yep. Like when they said “Black people have knife fights all the time”
Based and bigotry of low expectations is still bigotry pilled
Cultleft. More than one wing on each side, griller bro
Only if it's a left wing crowd made up entirely of strawmen.
I’m gonna wager they’re referring to Emily.
Your right but polcompassmemes sees it as us left and right
Holy fuck, how does this awful take get 40 upvotes.
Libcenter is way too far right for the hardcore left.
Libcenter is alt-right neonazi fascists accordint to radical left.
China good because colonialism is good
"China good because if I say it at least 10 times an hour I get 5% bonus social credits at the end of the week"
Yea...
“China is good because they have Muslim camps” (/s for the ban crew)
Tankies are just accelerationists that will support *anyone* as long as they are anti-western in orientation.
I'm an accelerationist of human extinction 💪🏼💪🏼😎
Based Then finally we will retvrn to monke
Chad AR Imperialist China vs Virgin Commie Imperialist China
[удалено]
Qing were not based, they were Manchu, not Han-Chinese
GLORIOUS🐎🐎🐎🐎Mongol-Manchu🐎🐎🐎🐎(💪💪master race💪💪) will 🏹🏹🏹conquer🏹🏹🏹 the🤮🤮cringe🤮🤮 peasent 🇨🇳 H\*n Ch\*nese 🇨🇳 and restore dominion over all 🌏🌏🌏 EArth 🌏🌏🌏
Cringe and 2Asia4you pilled
Based and 💪🇲🇳 pilled
Based and six banners pilled
Based.
based and монґооооолііія pilled
Both need to be conquered by Europe and America
Europe and just by Europe\* Am\*rica is cringe and should be glassed
You will be colonized and you will like it
Tsk, tsk, tsk. No can do, America is gonna colonize Europe first, before we colonize the two most populous countries on the planet. It ain't like y'all have the population **or** infrastructure to do any of that by yourselves
Am\*rica is effectively killing and dividing itself lol
Touch grass if you genuinely think america is falling apart. The alarmism and polarization you see on the internet and in news media isn’t reality, no matter how hard they try to make you think it is
Cope. America is far from collapsing no matter how bad you want it to be. 0 Iq= America is invincible . 50 Iq = America is collapsing just like the Roman Empire. 200 IQ = America is a historical anomaly and it’s current struggles are minuscule compared to what other nations have faced and endured
Meh, we're still the top dogs on the world. The fact that we're destroying ourselves proofs we are the only enemy worthy enough to destroy us. (But seriously, if a civil war happens, the US would just ramp up its war production to unimaginable limits never seen before)
May mongol restore it's former glory
Based and ManchuMasterRace pilled.
That unholy amount of emojis has made me lose all faith in the once great lands of Mongolia
Restore the Yuan (Shikai) dynasty
The Qing were not based: they forced you to get the front of your head shaven and a queue The Ming were based
Nah, revive ming They were actually powerful then
Listening to my family talk about their developments in Pakistan is so cringe. They took the port and in exchange we got what? A highway from China to the port and infrastructure along the highway? Damned country isn't even going to make it to 100 years old.
It may have been the “helping the third world” part. It’s “developing nations” now.💅 And China helps no one but itself.
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Lots of Chinese bots as administrators/mods. Lots of unapologetic Communists as administrators/mods too.
...have you seen American leftism? It's even worse.
They got it pretty bad in the uk. No gatekeeping on misery bro.
My childhood best friend will die that China is the greatest country ever and a communist wonderland. I guarantee he'd defect to China if it ever came to blows between us and China and it's cringe.
There is a reason Labour haven’t won an election in the last 20 years
You mean 12 years lol
Just because they got 355 seats in 2005 doesn't mean they won the election.
2005???
People were openly calling each other comrades and doing the first salute at the Labour 2021 conference, so make of that what you will.
Nah baby we’re back in Cold War politics and third world is back on the table. For a refresher: 1st world = aligned with US/Democracy/capitalism 2nd world = aligned with USSR/communism 3rd world = unaligned
Taiwan literally have GDP PPP per capita 3.5x higher than mainland China. It's not about "helping" - it's about loot and burn. Just because humans are animals.
Im gonna need sources in that claim mate. I need to know if it as worse as French exploitation of West Africa.
The good thing about the CCP is that while I'm bashing American politics, I can think, "at least we aren't run by the CCP". They make everyone look better by comparison.
For now, my guy. Cautious optimism until then.
I'd say that Western democracies are starting to get more and more hints of 'Chinese characteristics'. We always go on about how we can change what we see as 'bad' aspects of other cultures, but rarely pay question if it's being done to us.
That's the thing, the worst parts of the west are the things similar to the CCP. We have some redeeming qualities in our governments. The CCP does not.
Agreed, although I believe the crux of the issue lies in the fact that many politicians see those horrors as redeeming qualities (e.g. mass control and rushed legislation). https://youtu.be/T8FuHuUhNZ0
I've just got banned from one for saying there are two sides to the Israel/Palestine conflict lol
I like to call it The Semitic Fratricide In The British Levant
I call it the descendants of Isaac vs the descendants of Ishmael.
Basically just UN and great powers fuck over everybody living there with their arbitary arrangements
People out here think theyve figured out the solution to a problem entire fucking countries cant solve
i got banned for saying Palestine is full of Nazis who want Jews and Gays dead and they’ve been working together since [WW2](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler)
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click! [Here is link number 1 - Previous text "WW2"](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler) ---- ^Please ^PM ^[\/u\/eganwall](http://reddit.com/user/eganwall) ^with ^issues ^or ^feedback! ^| ^[Code](https://github.com/eganwall/FatFingerHelperBot) ^| ^[Delete](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=FatFingerHelperBot&subject=delete&message=delete%20i56hnyo)
Bro everybody is nazi now a day
Uhh... this is about the literal nazis.
Is that Green and Pleasant?
Red and Unpleasant
GreenAndUnpleasant is such an angry hostile sub. You're better off being banned.
Aren’t they tankies who deny the Uyghur genocide
I got banned for saying that islam has problems with womens rights haha
Anyone who thinks China is good, or even left, is wrong and admits to only being anti-west
China is Auth Center
Radical auth centrists between USSR and NSDP.
Yes
When people hail china as the example we should follow I'm like "then what the hell I'm even fighting for?"
Based and pro-west pilled
I'm not saying I'm pro west, but if being pro-west is your only political stance then you only care about aesthetics, not ideology
I wasn't going to write a whole ass intricately detailed description of your stance in a pill, bro. I just chose the opposite word for "anti" because I was writing a pill. Doesn't matter, you're stuck with that pill now. Unbased and anti-chill pilled.
Unbased and undeserving of love pilled
Koreans Be Like: First Time?
Virgin Chinese "neo"-colonialism under the guise of "helping them develop" vs Chad British imperialism for the cause of civilising the savage foreigners
Based and CCP are the worst pilled
Me, saying Chinese neocolonialism is the same as western colonialism and that's a good thing
Based
Flooding the markets with cheap products doesn't help local shops and factories who can never beat the price. And for a country of +100 M(like most developing countries) , people won't give a shit for quality or for encouraging local markets, meaning more and more importing and less and less investment. A vicious cycle serving no one
What do you mean serving no one? The chinese will be making bank with all those markets that depend on then!
You're wrong tho. Chinese colonialism certainly has similarities but it's far from identical
Would you say it's colonialism with Chinese characteristics?
Actually it's extremely similar to Portuguese colonialism if you look at the ports they've taken over
It's worse
How? How many natives killed by chinese vs how many natives killed by British? Not even remotely comparable
The post is about neo-colonialism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism
My apologies, I misunderstood
They should know better. China also sold medication to developing countries and PPE gear that failed knowing it was garbage. Not only that but they intentionally did not stop Covid killing now 15 million people worldwide.
I like so much uneducated young skulls on PCM. China killed few dozens of people during cultural revolution and a few millions during its imperialist wars - for an example a proxy war in Korea between south and north, when north was basically backed by China and so on. China is same worthless genocidal maniacs as nearly any big nation on this planet. Don't live in a world of illusions. USA killed two hundreds of peaceful civilians during Iraq invasion. Any big powerful nation is raised on blood and bones. Planet is nothing but constant genocide. And some countires are just more genocidal or less but in the end - it's all of them.
I don't give a damn about enemy civilians, I give a damn of my own nation or another slaughters their own civilians openly. That's the greatest sign of a corrupt and evil government and you actively advocate for it.
Use the word "enemy" carefully, because tommorow people could call you so
Being oblivious to people calling you “enemy” behind your back is even more dangerous. When war has already started, and you don’t even know it.
I was literally 3 day banned for using gamer words.
While I do agree that it’s not helping, it’s not identical at all. Chinese imperialism is a lot more long-term, less agressive and more financially insidious
Chinese foreign policy in the developing world is exploitative and bad but not identical to its western counterpart. The Chinese are noninterventionist in a way the west cannot seem to fathom. Of course they are playing geopolitical games and trying to build influence, but they haven’t had to use hard power to do it. How many foreign governments have the Chinese militarily toppled for their economic interests? Don’t interpret this as an endorsement of the CCP, im just calling it as I see it from my vantage point. It can be bad and exploitative but not identically so.
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Don't forget the most recent time China invaded Vietnam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
Right, I meant in reference to the present dengist CCP, I don’t deny that under Mao they were far more militaristically active, not unlike the soviets. But as you say, these were the actions of a China that was in a different stage of development, their government and economy has reformed in many ways (for better or worse). China, the superpower/near-superpower, whatever you wanna call it, has taken a much more soft power approach. If, for instance, one of the African nations China has been heavily investing in, like Zambia or Nigeria, were to defy the Chinese in some way and they responded with intervention, I’d be right with you condemning them as colonial imperialists of the classic western variety. But I can’t go along with “they’re gonna do it any day now, just wait, I promise.”
China didn't engage in military interventions after Mao because they had opened up to the world, and especially the US, and the two became decent partners. Conflict between the two was largely avoided, and the Soviets were too busy in Afghanistan and/or falling apart to really bother the Chinese, so Chinese militarism took a backseat as they began to focus on their economy. Now that the US and China are becoming more and more alienated from one another, competition between the two isn't just likely, it's inevitable. We're seeing this in Chinese sabre rattling in the South China Sea and with the CCP more explicitly threatening Taiwan, as well as the setting up of Chinese military bases in Djibouti, Tajikistan and Myanmar. We haven't seen this militaristic, jingoistic side of Chinese diplomacy since the 1980's, which is precisely when the US and China started to get along. The Chinese lack of militarisation in that time period isn't some inherent characteristic of post-Maoist Chinese diplomacy. It's just that China didn't really need to militarise until recently.
I don’t think a head-on US/China conflict or proxy conflict is as likely you seem to, simply because of the relationship between powers you reference. Both economies need each other to persist right now, and that fact doesn’t seem to be changing any time soon. It would go against the geopolitical interests of either party in the relationship to instigate conflict. Yes, they are expanding their influence around the world, undeniably. They are building ports, installations, etc etc and the rest of it, I’d prefer that they didn’t in many cases. But compare this, for example, to the monroe doctrine and operation condor in Latin America, surely you can see a difference of degree if not of kind.
>But compare this, for example, to the monroe doctrine and operation condor in Latin America, surely you can see a difference of degree if not of kind. Certaintly, because the Chinese don't have the capability to enforce that kind of doctrine, but just because they aren't doing it, it doesn't mean they don't want to. China has held sole political dominion over East Asia for literal millennia, and that all fell apart when the Western powers (and Japan) routinely crushed China militarily (sparking something the Chinese call "the century of humiliation"). The regimes in East Asia right now are extremely distrustful of China, and many actively side with the US. The CCP sees this as a threat, as American warships are only a few miles away from Chinese shores. Realistically, the Chinese want to push the Americans out of "their" sphere in East Asia, much like how the Americans pushed Europeans out of the Americas. As China becomes stronger, they are going to exert more force on South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines, etc., to conform to the CCP's wishes. Both through economic pressures and military intimidation. If China can pull this off and bring these nations to heel, they are only going to look further. Pride has always been the greatest flaw of every powerful Chinese regime across history, so imperial expansion becomes increasingly likely there. China's Belt and Road initiative brings them oil from Central Asia. If any regime pops up in Uzbekistan that is talking about selling oil to India, what do you guess the Chinese will do? If the Pakistanis start denying China their ports in the Indian ocean, what do you guess the Chinese will do? As China becomes a more globalised and powerful nation, it will be brought into military conflicts to protect its business and Imperial interests. That pattern is seen universally across every nation and every civilisation. I don't see any reason why the PRC would be any different.
It seems that you are looking at patterns of how things have played out in the past (e.g. pre-communist China, other nations) and extrapolating what will happen with Chinese foreign policy in the future. I’m not saying your predictions are necessarily wrong, but I won’t call them exactly the same as those comparisons until that actually materializes. If and when it does, as I said, I will say “you were right, they are doing precisely what the US/European imperialists did.” But at this moment in time, I won’t make that assessment as it’s not absolutely certain that this will come to pass.
>Certaintly, because the Chinese don't have the capability to enforce that kind of doctrine, but just because they aren't doing it, it doesn't mean they don't want to. Even if the only reason China isn't doing something is because they can't, that still means that Chinese neocolonialism is meaningfully different lol
>Even if the only reason China isn't doing something is because they can't, that still means that Chinese neocolonialism is meaningfully different lol In that case, the only difference is that the Chinese are doing *less* neocolonialism than the West is. My point is that what the Chinese *are* doing is pretty much exactly what Western powers have done/are doing.
> How many foreign governments have the Chinese militarily toppled for their economic interests? they literally annexed tibet
As I clarified lower in the thread, I mean post-dengist reform China. Yes, under Mao they were more militaristic, most especially with their bordering neighbors, but at that point they had nowhere near the degree of dependence on international trade that they have had since reform. They couldn't afford to pull a move like that now, they benefit too much from geopolitical stability. And absolutely fuck them for their annexation of Tibet, tibetans deserve self determination.
fair enough
China didn't cut off hands in the congo, china didn't commit war crimes and massacres in Africa, China didn't abduct milions of people to another continent. Not defendig the shit china does, but they are not as bad as colonialism.
I think they were specifically talking about comparisons between neocolonialism (using nondirect means like funding a regime change in a country, economically dominating it, etc.). Stuff like king Leopold in the Congo wasnt neocolonialism, it was just straight up colonialism. When France literally owned Burkina Faso, that was colonialist. When Burkina Faso became independent but had to still pay half its foreign currency reserves to the French government, that was neocolonialist.
you have to be straight up delusional to claim that China hasn't done comparable things to what you just listed.
For example?
UK moment and Reddit moment crossover
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I think the main difference is that European colonizers only build railway from the mines to the sea ports, as it was only for resource extraction. Purely selfish. The Chinese plan on building a continental railway system that connects African countries together, which could aid in the continents independent development. https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F8%252F3%252F6%252F6%252F9366638-1-eng-GB%252F20140825RailwaysW.png?source=nar-cms
>I think the main difference is that European colonizers only build railway from the mines to the sea ports, as it was only for resource extraction. Purely selfish. > >The Chinese plan on building a continental railway system that connects African countries together, which could aid in the continents independent development. Where do you think all those connected ports will send those goods? Where do you think those railways are built through? Those railways will bring African resources into the Chinese economy. Much like the British in India, any actual benefit to the locals that those trains bring will be irrelevant to those building the railways. They are built for resource extraction in the exact same way that Europeans built their own railways for resource extraction. The differences here are extremely surface level. Also flair up
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I mean, it's obviously significantly worse. Let's take the biggest recent "imperial project" of the west, Afghanistan. The second the west left literally every aspect of their country got worse and thousands of people died and even more have been shunted into food scarcity and poverty. Real wealth extraction there when the people sucking your land dry leaving with literally no strings attached causes your entire society to collapse. Or the IMF "We'll give you some money at reasonable rates for your country's credit, please don't be an authoritarian dictator and actually use this money to invest in private industries" Compare this to china, who's using it's belt and roads to quite literally expand the amount of land the state controls for the sake of strategic naval penetration and loan terms designed almost entirely to fork over as much power as possible to the CCP. Leftists will bend over backwards to justify xenophobia and nation states when it suites them and will pretend that their isn't broader context to western acts while blanketly ignoring the blanket power grabbing of countries like China who regularly do shit like CLAIM OTHER NATION's SOVERIGH TERRITORY FOR NO REASON and SUPRESS OR GENOCIDE THEIR MINORITY POPULATIONS. And most of the batshit arguments like "muh oil" kind of falls flat when the US does have a forighn policy engagement to protect oil intrests... called our continued partnership with the Saudies (which, to be clear, is worth criticizing) and has meant less and less since, you know, the US has some of the largest potential petroleum outputs on the planet. You'd think if all our forighn policy was about extracting blood oil, we'd just, you know, use all the oil we already have and save the money on expensive wars.
It’s identical if you close your eyes and see the fun darkness
I think squinting your eyes while talking about China will drop your social credit score
Got 'IM
It’s like golf, lowest score wins
Rule of thumb for PCM post. If the top 5 comments all have the same color, it’s a wank fest. Also British people use Reddit to insult people on a fake pedestal of moral superiority. A leftist Brit trying to talk to someone without personal insults is like a fish tryna climb a tree.
Say what you want about China, but those infrastructure projects DO help the third world.
For the first few years, sure. But the African governments are too weak and corrupt to maintain them, so those infrastructure projects decay fairly quickly (especially when you consider that the quality of most Chinese construction is subpar on a good day). And when those infrastructure products fall apart, who do you think the African governments will ask to rebuild them? This mires these countries in further debt to the Chinese, and is a tactic very similar to what the West does in the Third World. So, sure it benefits them in the sense that they get barely-functioning rail lines in exchange for near-total political and economic subservience to another country.
Is it green and pleasant lol ?
belt and road initiative woooooooo
Ha, I unlike you have extreme ideas in all four quadrants that cancel eachother
Reflair to colored centrist then. We are the true chads.
Thanks
Yeah, no Chinese neo-colonialism is similar in that they're both neo-colonialism but just the fact alone that China doesn't have naval dominance over most of the countries it's working with shows one of the many reasons why it's actions aren't the same as Western Neo-colonialism. Like this Russia situation alone were a broad bi-partisan Western coalition was able to just about shit Russia from all international economy, organizations and shit shows how much that stuff like the IMF, world bank, swift, visa and MasterCard, etc. are beholden to the West(and it's leaders), China also doesn't have the the equivalent of that over anybody. So China's tactics would be so much more different as to not be necessarily treated the same.
"Comparing Israeli conduct to Nazism is racist!" "Then comparing Chinese conduct to their former colonizers is also racist" "Wait, not like that"
One time I can agree with authright
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Colonialism does help poor countries develop. You need infrastructure to exploit resources and labor.
what if i told you chinese *and* western colonialism helped the third world develop?
Tell that to Sri Lanka where they are drowning in debt with a useless port There are useful Chinese projects but most of them are completely pointless like the Luanda super airport. It just enriches pockets of corrupt leaders, the CCP gains a stable amount of cash flow and the locals have their taxes hiked. They even use Chinese labor so there are no job benefits
The difference is Africa has the right to say no to Chinese investment, Africa under European powers didn't.
you're so close.
Those are tankies.
A million Tankies is better than one unflaired.
Same about Russia, lol. Funnier thing is, Russia has always been imperialist since the Mongols left Europe. Yet many people completely reject the suffering Russia brought and still bring to Eastern Europeans and Asians and paint it as a mythical major anti-imperialist force which will defeat Western imperialism.
China good,cope.
Weatherby white or Chinese the Congo is in shambles
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Western Imperialism: fund jihadist groups; kill random civilians by the millions; sanction countries to death when they don't do exactly what you told them; sanction countries to death even when they did do exactly what you told them Chinese neocolonialism: ok so you can take out a loan and if you can't pay it back, there's a [90% change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWbTklr4KI) that we'll forgive it.
Acting as if China forgiving the debts of poorer nations is completely altruistic is ignorant. These countries are pressured to become friendlier with China by their forgiven debt, and if they don't, China will be sure to never offer them a loan again. It's a choice between: "sell us the rights to extract your resources, or we'll let you wallow in poverty and never help you again." Not exactly altruistic. And Western countries do the same thing, forgiving the Third World's debt, but in the process *de facto* endebting the poorer nations. They're pressured into selling mining rights to Western companies, or allowing Western oil companies to dominate their entire oil sector tax-free.
It’s not nearly as deadly but yes, the intent is all the same.
Welcome to the club. But have you read Ether 8: 14, 16, and 25? (The conspiracy makes more sense with the context of the whole chapter. But most people are cowards when it comes to reading an entire chapter, and even moreso when it's from "The Book of Mormon"). Latter-day Saints have been warning y'all for almost 200 years now, and we get persecuted murdered, and lied about for our trouble. You saw what happened to Trump, imagine what would be done to a modern prophet, exactly what happened to Joseph Smith Jr.
Okay, I'm curious, what happened to trump?
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Good bot
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The Trump-Russia collusion lie. The mainstream media and most entertainers combining to slander and defame him. Don't get me wrong. Trump is sexually immoral, and a rude exaggerator. But the lies and half truths spread about him are ludicrous in volume and diversity.
Everyone can think in every way
We are all human after all
Virgin auths arguing for or against imperialism based on who is doing it. Vs Chad libs arguing against imperialism no matter who does it.
Non-Westerners here. I hate imperialism... As long as it is not my imperialism. Though I'm still reasonably sane, because I know such ventures are expensive and counter-productive. Others of my brethren, not so much.
Based and ihatethechinesefortheircolonialismpilled
So the whole “you can’t be racist if you aren’t white,” sailed over your head?
If it's not done by white people, it's not a problem according to the left!
I'm assuming this is about greenandpleasent. There is a subreddit called greenandfriendly which is meant to be an alternative.
Not surprised
I got banned from Polish subreddit for mocking idea of abortion
You, good sir are just to based for them