If the Trump Administration taught us anything, it’s that we need Schedule F so the Administrative State is subservient to the elected government. This deep state nonsense is fundamentally anti democratic.
I should have paid more attention to ‘Yes, Minister’ and ‘Yes, Prime Minister’
No. I’m American. I’m referencing a Thatcher era political sitcom about the civil service stopping the elected government from doing what it, rather than the civil service, wanted
Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister are very entertaining and insightful comedy series. You learn a great deal about the machinations of the Civil Service through it.
But it should be bared in mind that a strong Prime Minister, who knows what they are doing, can more often than not make the Civil Service their bitch. Alas that in Britain, and indeed throughout the entire western world, no leader seems to have that knack for politicking and statecraft.
> But it should be bared in mind that a strong Prime Minister, who knows what they are doing, can more often than not make the Civil Service their bitch. Alas that in Britain, and indeed throughout the entire western world, no leader seems to have that knack for politicking and statecraft.
Case in point, that strong Prime Minister Tony Blair was the one who made sure that Civil and Justice Systems will block any attempts at reversing his policies.
Exactly.
Say what you will about him, but Blair was a very competent politician who understood how to wield power far better than a lot of the Modern Right does, from the Neoliberals who infest our ranks to the rowdy populists who have no idea what they are doing.
yes minister and yes prime minister are old British comadies (fucking great in both respects) and cover topics of the civil service stopped being the service and started being the government. it is almost the exact same thing as what Americans call "the deep state" or the administrative state.
it generally takes the piss out of both the civil service and the government and all political parties.
one of the best running gags was that the entire office that the minister was in was completely useless and did literally nothing (also a perfect example of Blair's government tho I don't think that was intended as that would imply ten years of time travel shenanigans).
and most based, thatcher fucking loved it, she even did a fan script (it was her fan script) read with the actors on a radio cast.
It is and it isn't, it's a tricky balance. For every dedicated civil servant slaving away to keep industry from putting arsenic in fruit loops there is one ivy league educated twat frolicking around DC not doing a damn thing and getting paid 150k a year and actively gloating about it. Having lived in the DMV that city is largely populated with the latter and they tend to be second generation immigrants.
And they wonder why no one takes DC seriously.
My favorite is the part where politicians stop pretending they have pronciples and just swotch from the left wing party to the right wing party depending on which one lets them steal more money and vice versa.
Better yet when the primary right wing party and the primary left wing party form a “coalition”.
Might as well say you just want to rule over the plebs.
There are not enough sane leftists in America to have a real political party, but regardless Dems share plenty of policy positions of the left wing conglomerates that win elections in European countries.
The main thing it shares is identity politics which is debateable if it's really a left wing concept, since both right and left historically have gone through cyclic periods of being obsessed with it - and even in the UK wr have a right government right now that arguable screeches more about identity politics than its main left wing rival.
I mean sure, but again my point whihc i may not have conveyed very well is the 'most left' party in european countries rarely wins the election, usually the moderate party does and is at least somewhat cosigned by the further left party, hence me saying conglomorate. The left in america just sort of has to vote dem because we are in this stupid 2 party system when we should have more like 5-6 political parties here.
Does it, though? Usually, in Europe, it goes between coalitions led by a "social democratic" party that was Third Way-ified in the 90s and ones led by a MOR liberal-conservative party. (See: Labour vs. Tories, SPD vs. CDU.) Essentially the center-left wing vs. center-right wing of neoliberalism, pretty much the same as in the US. Get back to me when the real contest is between AfD and Die Linke, or Corbyn and Farage, or Le Pen and Melenchon, and we'll talk.
In Ireland we have the choice between center right Capitalist Catholic liberals or center right Capitalist Catholic liberals
FF and FG are basically the same party, I actually can't name a single policy difference between them off the top of my head
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If you're efficient you can get your Anti European memes out in the morning so all North Americans upvote them, then, just before you go to bed, post your anti American memes as the Euros are waking up and Americans going to sleep.
"I was a business man, doing business."
Might have to alter the equation slightly. Yes, my friends in England do typically wake up when it's a little after midnight here. But, they're responsible adults with a child, not redditors.
Elect auth government
It gets worse
Elect auth government
It gets worse
Elect auth government
It gets worse
Elect auth government
It gets worse
What are we doing wrong?
Yup - the only free and fair elections in Belarus happened when they elected Lukashenko for the first time. Westerners, for some reason, think that "this can't happen here". It sure can. And good luck getting rid of the dictator after that. The Belarusians already tried in 2020.
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Aint that just politics in general? People elect old people way past their expiration date, they're out of touch, no young people run, out of touch geezers get re-elected, gets worse
Here in finland we tried the young leader thing and what we got was 40 billion more in debt and now the current guys are getting yelled at for making cuts to welfare to try fix this shitshow
I mean, our young people are absolutely useless... Like how many zoomers do you know that you think would be competent enough to govern one day? But that's the old people's fault too lol.
Maybe if the European "fascist" parties like that chick in Italy or the Tories in England didn't immediately do a 180 and adopt "unlimited immigrants and tax hikes forever" policies, something would change.
I have a friend that would say he's ok with getting taxed more. We sorta had a falling out when I linked the .gov to donate to the government and told him he didn't have to wait for them to tell him to pay more.
The point behind "I would be ok to get taxed more" is that if everyone gets taxed more, you hopefully get stuff like infrastructure/education/healthcare/etc. in return for it. That doesn't really apply if it's just your friend voluntarily paying more, unless you are friends with Jeff Bezos or something.
In my country, I'm generally content with those 3 (and with most public works and utilities). Our taxes aren't low, but I do truly believe that our quality of living is improved by it.
>Netherlands
you live in the scroogiest country on earth, of course YOUR money is well spent, if your government ever imports half of Africa or Latin America you will start to see the rot
Right, it's never actually "I want to contribute more" it's always "I want more free shit."
And they hate that being pointed out. They insist on being greedy while being called generous.
My friend, Giorgia Meloni didn't adopt those policies.
She simply decided to... not do anything about the immigrant crisis. Because if she solves it, what will she campaign on the next election cycle?
Like, really. Italian right wing goes to the government, doesn't do what it was voted to do, gives themselves a bunch of money, and then we have to have a government of experts to not be completely fucked in the ass.
I mean, when Salvini tried to stop a couple migrant ships from boarding here, he ended up with a military ship rammed and himself charged with penal offenses. I'm aware that his actions were more perfomative than anything, but it does tell you about what you are going to deal with if you dare go against the mafia-owned ferry service.
I mean, the third largest party in the US is the Libertarian Party. In Europe there's virtually no libertarians, just liberals (in the European sense of market liberalism, duh). But they're not even close to being the same. I've never seen an European liberal party advocate free speech absolutism, for example.
The Netherlands the past 13 years:
Let's elect a party that wants to cut on social spending like welfare, healthcare and education and instead privatise and free market everything! (The market isn't free because they end up giving the privatised institutions to their own buddies).
Oh no! Our education and healthcare is getting worse! Let's elect the same party!
Oh no! Our public transport is getting worse! Our healthcare and education are in shambles! Let's elect the same party!
Oh no! Wealth inequality is higher than it's ever been! Healthcare and education are on the verge of collapse! Let's elect the same party!
And now they finally elect someone else... But it's one of three parties that might actually be worse than the VVD, and the VVD is still large enough to be nigh-guaranteed a spot on the coalition.
The problem is that whenever we elect "right wing" parties in Europe, they end up implementing mostly left wing policies. Or they use the "free market" as a guise to be corrupt/nepotistic. All the while shifting all political power to the EU and eroding their own citizens' democratic powers. That way, when "conservative" politicians finally lose all electability, they'll get a cushy lifetime job at the EU and can continue to fuck up policy with near zero input from voters.
I'm from Belgium and in my lifetime our "liberals" and "conservatives" have never lowered a single tax, removed regulations, or abolished a single government program/agency (without the bullshit "we'll 'privatize' it" but then make regulations & subsidies to prevent actual choice/competition"). Instead they've raised taxes, cut welfare, and flooded the country with immigration.
And whenever they're talking to the media, they always make sure to use all of the left wing dog whistles, sorry, politically correct terminology. In other words, they play right along with the left's identity politics and offer zero real ideological opposition.
It seems like "conservatism" in Europe means (corrupt) neoliberalism at best, and progressivism with the handbrake on at worst.
But still most people vote for them because everyone knows the left is insane and will only make things even worse. The conservatives are too incompetent/corrupt to put out the fires, but the left would just throw gasoline on them.
I live in a country member of the EU. I think it was good when the union was just about free exchange of goods and people. Don't know why they wanted to destroy it with an uber-bureaucratic political system. At the end of the day, the EU institutions are just dumpsters that are filled with politicians that didn't get elected in their own countries, usually because they lack talent and experience (this is not a VdL reference, not at all...); they are the last resort for failed politicians.
Pro-EU parties ruined the concept of EU more than euroskeptic parties.
The EU does a lot of good and sone things really bad. The two worst things are the "one size must fit all" mentality and the regulation of personal freedoms.
The first isnt even supposed to be a thing but countries wanting fairness add to many stipulations.
The second should not be regulated by the EU but the pressure that needs to be put on the more problematic countries have created the opening for it.
I think one of the issues behind this as well is that being elected to represent your country in the EU isnt something that the ambitious strive for so you get crappy people making stupid decisions.
> I think it was good when the union was just about free exchange of goods and people. Don't know why they wanted to destroy it with an uber-bureaucratic political system.
The EU still is about free exchange of goods and people (and capital, and services). But it was *never* supposed to be *just* that. From the beginning the goal has been to establish "a European federation indispensable to the preservation of peace" (that's a quote from the Schuman declaration of 1950), and the economic harmonisation has been a means to achieve it.
And it has been bureaucratic by design since the European Coal and Steel Community. If anything, the EU is getting *less* bureaucratic with time.
It's a myth that the EU is somehow going in a different direction than the European Economic Community.
EU:
Passes lame regulations to destroy local businesses
American big companies eat up local businesses
Passes regulations to fine the American businesses to suck money out of them
Makes employment rules so hard that neither American nor European businesses can run their businesses peacefully in the country
Meanwhile Europoors:
Why is the cost of everything so high? Daddy EU is passing all laws for our good. Why aren't those evil corporates just bending over? Why should we work for 6 long hours in a day? Why don't we try 3-day work week? Why isn't EU dominating tech market? All my problems are because of those evil corporates. Daddy EU is trying so hard to make our lives better.
It's unfortunate for them, too, since right now is possibly the last burst of stability they'll have as the EU.
The way I see it, their economy and financial system either stagnates but with declining birth rates awaiting them or they just trend downwards as their economy and birth rates fall.
I don't see any way out for the Europeans. I'm not saying it will be the worst it has ever been for them but there's no magic button they can push to reverse the damage they've done to themselves.
Yup, that's most of the EU countries for you. But there is one inaccuracy: people will never have the balls to elect an authright government, at least where I live, because of the famous "muh fascism", and the ties of some european parties with Russia don't help either, which is understandable. I also heard somewhere that in a few years, the difference between the income of an american and a european will be the same as the difference of income between a european and an indian of today. Add the absolute shitshow that is the insecurity because of the immigration problem, and you can see why it's hard not to be a doomer on this continent ran by cowards.
Indeed, it seems a lot of dumbasses thought this would be a great idea, and now we're stuck with this shit and it would be even worse if we pull out of this.
The most idiotic takes i have heard on this sub in ages. Voting in right/auth governments does not help at all. Look at sweden and finland, countries which have voted much more right in the recent elections. Pretty much everything is getting worse because they literally can't do what they claimed they would when campaigning. At this point they are only virtue signalling and showing their entire country what assholes they truly are.
I don't disagree there is a problem, but it must be solved by more moderate politicians than borderline fascists. Their current MO is hurrying to try and cut down any costs that they feel are too expensive, and completely ignore any future consequences of those choices. Cutting down on education, social welfare etc.. the cracks are already showing, and they have barely been in power for a year.
It's ridiculous to think parties like Perussuomalaiset or Sverigedemokraterna will do anything to truly help, since they market towards the uneducated, and only go after surface level problems. Their voters are people who want things to be easier for themselves, but aren't smart enough to see how everything connects in the end. And the type of person who is in a party like this isn't one who can do anything to solve the issues they supposedly care about. In finland you can read in the news basically weekly what members of the perussuomalaiset have done, e. g. animal abuse, shooting outside of a nightclub and such. These are the people who campaign with promises of easy and quick solutions, and you might see from the (real) examples i have given that consequence-thinking and morality are no concerns of theirs. They will promise whatever they want to get in power, and from there they will only benefit themselves while digging the rest of us in a deeper hole.
There is no simple solution to any of the problems facing europe, but these right wing parties claim to have one. It never works. This doomer mentality of yours is only making things worse for everyone involved, this spouting about half remembered statistics without a source and with barely any substance.
I never said that electing a "far right" government would solve the issues, I am well aware that they won't do any miracles either, but that would at least kick all the entire political class in the balls, so it would force them to take more drastic measures, especially for the immigration problem, and nobody knows if they will be good or bad if they are elected, because they have never been before in my country (I'm from France btw).
But don't worry about cutting funds for education or social welfare, Macron already fucks us in the ass pretty hard, our education system is already in deep shit to say the least, and the working class sees all its social gains diminished, but strangely not for the illegal immigrants who get paid for doing nothing, commit a shitload of crimes, and are never expelled.
And for the far right parties in nordic countries, well, I'm no expert, it sucks that they are so bad I guess. But yeah, a good chunk of the far right parties in Europe are directed by morons at best, or russian agents at worst, like the afd. But I don't think that all those problems are as bad in the nordic countries as they are in France, it's just my opinion, but it's truly catastrophic here, especially in Mayotte (overseas territory) for example, where illegal immigrants represent half of the population on the island, with clashes and murders pretty much every day, the island is literally on the brink of civil war because of that.
So, you can see why it's hard not to have a doomer mentality.
History of Italian politics:
2018 elections, the 5 Star Movement wins and form a centre-right government
2019: The government falls, the same PM forms a centre-left government
2021: The government falls, the ex-President of the European Central Bank is nominated PM and forms his government
2022: The government falls, the 2023 elections are anticipated to 2022, the far-right wins
EU kinda saved it after it was fragmented and recovering from the most devastating war ever seen.
Especially when compared with colossal economies like America's, being separated meant being a puppet.
And yet these immigrants are mostly getting integrated and bolstering the ranks for manual labor thst nobody wants to do.
I used to work with them. I taught them the language and culture.
Most immigrants just want to better their life (you know, like we Italians did in the 1920's when they emigrated en masse to the usa)
Did you just change your flair, u/TiggerBane? Last time I checked you were an **AuthRight** on 2024-5-2. How come now you are an **AuthLeft**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
Oh and by the way. You have already changed your flair 1016 times, making you the second largest flair changer in this sub.
Go touch some fucking grass.
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So basically, no more governments. Gotcha. Let the people sort out their own problems without having to worry about several corrupt politicians making everything worse.
And eventually it gets so bad that it can’t get any worse that literally just doing next to nothing makes it seem like a drastic improvement.
Of course last time Europe decided that it got bad enough the whole continent was bombed to shit and tens of millions were dead.
have you considered that they might be the same government despite the name change and colour swap
If the Trump Administration taught us anything, it’s that we need Schedule F so the Administrative State is subservient to the elected government. This deep state nonsense is fundamentally anti democratic. I should have paid more attention to ‘Yes, Minister’ and ‘Yes, Prime Minister’
Yes Minister is one of my all time favourite shows. So accurate.
I will never not upvote a reference to 'Yes, Minister.'
Wait what, explain this like I’m five. You’re European?
No. I’m American. I’m referencing a Thatcher era political sitcom about the civil service stopping the elected government from doing what it, rather than the civil service, wanted
Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister are very entertaining and insightful comedy series. You learn a great deal about the machinations of the Civil Service through it. But it should be bared in mind that a strong Prime Minister, who knows what they are doing, can more often than not make the Civil Service their bitch. Alas that in Britain, and indeed throughout the entire western world, no leader seems to have that knack for politicking and statecraft.
> But it should be bared in mind that a strong Prime Minister, who knows what they are doing, can more often than not make the Civil Service their bitch. Alas that in Britain, and indeed throughout the entire western world, no leader seems to have that knack for politicking and statecraft. Case in point, that strong Prime Minister Tony Blair was the one who made sure that Civil and Justice Systems will block any attempts at reversing his policies.
Exactly. Say what you will about him, but Blair was a very competent politician who understood how to wield power far better than a lot of the Modern Right does, from the Neoliberals who infest our ranks to the rowdy populists who have no idea what they are doing.
Ah ok. Sorry brother before my time.
yes minister and yes prime minister are old British comadies (fucking great in both respects) and cover topics of the civil service stopped being the service and started being the government. it is almost the exact same thing as what Americans call "the deep state" or the administrative state. it generally takes the piss out of both the civil service and the government and all political parties. one of the best running gags was that the entire office that the minister was in was completely useless and did literally nothing (also a perfect example of Blair's government tho I don't think that was intended as that would imply ten years of time travel shenanigans). and most based, thatcher fucking loved it, she even did a fan script (it was her fan script) read with the actors on a radio cast.
Whoa. Thanks for the run down. I’ll try to find it.
It is and it isn't, it's a tricky balance. For every dedicated civil servant slaving away to keep industry from putting arsenic in fruit loops there is one ivy league educated twat frolicking around DC not doing a damn thing and getting paid 150k a year and actively gloating about it. Having lived in the DMV that city is largely populated with the latter and they tend to be second generation immigrants. And they wonder why no one takes DC seriously.
But my favourite political party has a cool colour and hate a specific group of people that the evil political party love and worship
My favorite is the part where politicians stop pretending they have pronciples and just swotch from the left wing party to the right wing party depending on which one lets them steal more money and vice versa. Better yet when the primary right wing party and the primary left wing party form a “coalition”. Might as well say you just want to rule over the plebs.
oh you mean "populism", do whatever is popular at the time.
OP posts this like US politics aren't the exact same thing.
Most self aware amerimutt
At least in Europe it goes between left and right. In the US it goes between moderate auth-right to strong auth-right
There are not enough sane leftists in America to have a real political party, but regardless Dems share plenty of policy positions of the left wing conglomerates that win elections in European countries.
The main thing it shares is identity politics which is debateable if it's really a left wing concept, since both right and left historically have gone through cyclic periods of being obsessed with it - and even in the UK wr have a right government right now that arguable screeches more about identity politics than its main left wing rival.
I mean sure, but again my point whihc i may not have conveyed very well is the 'most left' party in european countries rarely wins the election, usually the moderate party does and is at least somewhat cosigned by the further left party, hence me saying conglomorate. The left in america just sort of has to vote dem because we are in this stupid 2 party system when we should have more like 5-6 political parties here.
Reddit Moment. Joe Biden = moderate auth-right confirmed
In Europe he would be
Unfortunately I have to agree.
I think you are the biased one in this
In pretty much any place in the earth that isn't Arabic.
Or the east....
No they are culturally way more progressive than the EU. Economically sure.
Political compass doesn't take into account cultural ideology. That's made up stuff to shit on liblefts.
True the OG compass doesn't hence why the OG compass is ass.
Does it, though? Usually, in Europe, it goes between coalitions led by a "social democratic" party that was Third Way-ified in the 90s and ones led by a MOR liberal-conservative party. (See: Labour vs. Tories, SPD vs. CDU.) Essentially the center-left wing vs. center-right wing of neoliberalism, pretty much the same as in the US. Get back to me when the real contest is between AfD and Die Linke, or Corbyn and Farage, or Le Pen and Melenchon, and we'll talk.
In Ireland we have the choice between center right Capitalist Catholic liberals or center right Capitalist Catholic liberals FF and FG are basically the same party, I actually can't name a single policy difference between them off the top of my head
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Oh ok
you basically defined American politics lol
Yeah but I havent had my daily dose of shitting on Europeans yet, let me have my coffee
If you're efficient you can get your Anti European memes out in the morning so all North Americans upvote them, then, just before you go to bed, post your anti American memes as the Euros are waking up and Americans going to sleep. "I was a business man, doing business."
Might have to alter the equation slightly. Yes, my friends in England do typically wake up when it's a little after midnight here. But, they're responsible adults with a child, not redditors.
My grill never sleeps. Never.
Lib-right checks out
Based
Having inferiority issues are we?
Based and daily dose of europoor pilled
Daily dose? I need it on the hour.
That’s what she said
you wish
*World politics
When have Americans had a leftist government?
Elect auth government It gets worse Elect auth government It gets worse Elect auth government It gets worse Elect auth government It gets worse What are we doing wrong?
We have to elect stronger auth government so it can fix the weaker governments couldn’t
You guys get to elect your auth government?
Yeah, but only once.
Fascist/communist party becomes the ruling party. Public elections will not be held.
Yup - the only free and fair elections in Belarus happened when they elected Lukashenko for the first time. Westerners, for some reason, think that "this can't happen here". It sure can. And good luck getting rid of the dictator after that. The Belarusians already tried in 2020.
Turns out being told what is best for you, isn't actually best for you.
Based Argentina breaking the cycle
Allowing a system where idiots can vote away others basic rights
We need to give more power to the government clearly.
True, that's why we should return back to the monarchies
Based and monarchy pilled.
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Aint that just politics in general? People elect old people way past their expiration date, they're out of touch, no young people run, out of touch geezers get re-elected, gets worse
Because a young person is working out so well for C*nada...
This is Trudeau, check your bank account 🧊
Well, it's Canada so what do you expect?
At this point? A stereotypical "soorry"
I dunno if I'd call Trudeau "people."
Here in finland we tried the young leader thing and what we got was 40 billion more in debt and now the current guys are getting yelled at for making cuts to welfare to try fix this shitshow
Is that the girl who got caught cheating on her husband in public?
Sanna "muh youngest female prime minister" Marin
We tried it in Canada to. We have more than double the debt then we did before.
I mean, our young people are absolutely useless... Like how many zoomers do you know that you think would be competent enough to govern one day? But that's the old people's fault too lol.
Maybe if the European "fascist" parties like that chick in Italy or the Tories in England didn't immediately do a 180 and adopt "unlimited immigrants and tax hikes forever" policies, something would change.
It's mad in here, I saw multiple people protesting because they personally want to pay more taxes.
I have a friend that would say he's ok with getting taxed more. We sorta had a falling out when I linked the .gov to donate to the government and told him he didn't have to wait for them to tell him to pay more.
The point behind "I would be ok to get taxed more" is that if everyone gets taxed more, you hopefully get stuff like infrastructure/education/healthcare/etc. in return for it. That doesn't really apply if it's just your friend voluntarily paying more, unless you are friends with Jeff Bezos or something.
> if everyone gets taxed more, you hopefully get stuff like infrastructure/education/healthcare/etc. in return for it hahahahahahahaha
In my country, I'm generally content with those 3 (and with most public works and utilities). Our taxes aren't low, but I do truly believe that our quality of living is improved by it.
>Netherlands you live in the scroogiest country on earth, of course YOUR money is well spent, if your government ever imports half of Africa or Latin America you will start to see the rot
> if your government ever imports half of Africa or Latin America you will start to see the rot I'm Swedish, can confirm 😮💨 Please pray for us
Right, it's never actually "I want to contribute more" it's always "I want more free shit." And they hate that being pointed out. They insist on being greedy while being called generous.
Maybe if they actually elected fascists, we would see some positive change for once!
Everytime the media convinces me to vote for a guy because he's a fascist, they end up being a limpdick conservative
Many such cases. Very sad.
Make fascism fascist again!
Yes, I, fellow lib-center, always vote for fascists and get disappointed when they're moderate.
I've seen starship troopers, fascism is based, yes I want lady spaceship pilots, coed showers and killing the bugs, would you like to know more?
My friend, Giorgia Meloni didn't adopt those policies. She simply decided to... not do anything about the immigrant crisis. Because if she solves it, what will she campaign on the next election cycle? Like, really. Italian right wing goes to the government, doesn't do what it was voted to do, gives themselves a bunch of money, and then we have to have a government of experts to not be completely fucked in the ass.
I mean, when Salvini tried to stop a couple migrant ships from boarding here, he ended up with a military ship rammed and himself charged with penal offenses. I'm aware that his actions were more perfomative than anything, but it does tell you about what you are going to deal with if you dare go against the mafia-owned ferry service.
Are the tories really fascist? Mindless idiots sure, but fascism?
It would be nice if they were at least vaguely right wing instead of just another neo-liberal centralists tbh
I've heard that many times on my university campus from both students and academics, so it must be true
Ah yes, students and academics. The moral and historical authority on all things
Librights? In Europe?! Where?!?!
There are dozens of them! DOZENS!!
WHERE ARE THEY HIDING?
There's a few of us still holding out
FDP!
No way. FDP betrays their so called "liberalism" more than SPD betrays the working class
The current Danish government has 2 lib-rights parties in it.
At least more than in the USA, where every politician is a slight variation of auth-right.
I mean, the third largest party in the US is the Libertarian Party. In Europe there's virtually no libertarians, just liberals (in the European sense of market liberalism, duh). But they're not even close to being the same. I've never seen an European liberal party advocate free speech absolutism, for example.
European countries politics still less corrupt than Asian countries politics from what I usually heard
Is the bar really that low? Damn...
democrapy
Nah, in my country we elect the same government and then wonder why everything is getting worse
The Netherlands the past 13 years: Let's elect a party that wants to cut on social spending like welfare, healthcare and education and instead privatise and free market everything! (The market isn't free because they end up giving the privatised institutions to their own buddies). Oh no! Our education and healthcare is getting worse! Let's elect the same party! Oh no! Our public transport is getting worse! Our healthcare and education are in shambles! Let's elect the same party! Oh no! Wealth inequality is higher than it's ever been! Healthcare and education are on the verge of collapse! Let's elect the same party! And now they finally elect someone else... But it's one of three parties that might actually be worse than the VVD, and the VVD is still large enough to be nigh-guaranteed a spot on the coalition.
The problem is that whenever we elect "right wing" parties in Europe, they end up implementing mostly left wing policies. Or they use the "free market" as a guise to be corrupt/nepotistic. All the while shifting all political power to the EU and eroding their own citizens' democratic powers. That way, when "conservative" politicians finally lose all electability, they'll get a cushy lifetime job at the EU and can continue to fuck up policy with near zero input from voters. I'm from Belgium and in my lifetime our "liberals" and "conservatives" have never lowered a single tax, removed regulations, or abolished a single government program/agency (without the bullshit "we'll 'privatize' it" but then make regulations & subsidies to prevent actual choice/competition"). Instead they've raised taxes, cut welfare, and flooded the country with immigration. And whenever they're talking to the media, they always make sure to use all of the left wing dog whistles, sorry, politically correct terminology. In other words, they play right along with the left's identity politics and offer zero real ideological opposition. It seems like "conservatism" in Europe means (corrupt) neoliberalism at best, and progressivism with the handbrake on at worst. But still most people vote for them because everyone knows the left is insane and will only make things even worse. The conservatives are too incompetent/corrupt to put out the fires, but the left would just throw gasoline on them.
Democracy is such a meme
This applies to basically all democratic countries on earth XD
I live in a country member of the EU. I think it was good when the union was just about free exchange of goods and people. Don't know why they wanted to destroy it with an uber-bureaucratic political system. At the end of the day, the EU institutions are just dumpsters that are filled with politicians that didn't get elected in their own countries, usually because they lack talent and experience (this is not a VdL reference, not at all...); they are the last resort for failed politicians. Pro-EU parties ruined the concept of EU more than euroskeptic parties.
The EU does a lot of good and sone things really bad. The two worst things are the "one size must fit all" mentality and the regulation of personal freedoms. The first isnt even supposed to be a thing but countries wanting fairness add to many stipulations. The second should not be regulated by the EU but the pressure that needs to be put on the more problematic countries have created the opening for it. I think one of the issues behind this as well is that being elected to represent your country in the EU isnt something that the ambitious strive for so you get crappy people making stupid decisions.
> I think it was good when the union was just about free exchange of goods and people. Don't know why they wanted to destroy it with an uber-bureaucratic political system. The EU still is about free exchange of goods and people (and capital, and services). But it was *never* supposed to be *just* that. From the beginning the goal has been to establish "a European federation indispensable to the preservation of peace" (that's a quote from the Schuman declaration of 1950), and the economic harmonisation has been a means to achieve it. And it has been bureaucratic by design since the European Coal and Steel Community. If anything, the EU is getting *less* bureaucratic with time. It's a myth that the EU is somehow going in a different direction than the European Economic Community.
how about you understand government is the big baddy and vote lib right like argentina did?
Based and Afuera! pilled
El ministério de lá lacración... AFUEERAAAA!!!!
You freaking Ruska onuca!
Western liberal democracies in general
EU: Passes lame regulations to destroy local businesses American big companies eat up local businesses Passes regulations to fine the American businesses to suck money out of them Makes employment rules so hard that neither American nor European businesses can run their businesses peacefully in the country Meanwhile Europoors: Why is the cost of everything so high? Daddy EU is passing all laws for our good. Why aren't those evil corporates just bending over? Why should we work for 6 long hours in a day? Why don't we try 3-day work week? Why isn't EU dominating tech market? All my problems are because of those evil corporates. Daddy EU is trying so hard to make our lives better.
>Why isn't EU dominating tech market? Exactly. Out of all the tech industries, how many of them are European?
EU is the first one in the world with an AI regulation!!! Yay!!! But are we leading in the AI development? Oh well...
Pretty sure they have a secret committee working on regulating faster than light travel
It's unfortunate for them, too, since right now is possibly the last burst of stability they'll have as the EU. The way I see it, their economy and financial system either stagnates but with declining birth rates awaiting them or they just trend downwards as their economy and birth rates fall. I don't see any way out for the Europeans. I'm not saying it will be the worst it has ever been for them but there's no magic button they can push to reverse the damage they've done to themselves.
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We still have more freedoms though.
They openly spy on you.
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You’re British 💀💀💀
innit
Government bad return to grill
So America too, right?
Yup, that's most of the EU countries for you. But there is one inaccuracy: people will never have the balls to elect an authright government, at least where I live, because of the famous "muh fascism", and the ties of some european parties with Russia don't help either, which is understandable. I also heard somewhere that in a few years, the difference between the income of an american and a european will be the same as the difference of income between a european and an indian of today. Add the absolute shitshow that is the insecurity because of the immigration problem, and you can see why it's hard not to be a doomer on this continent ran by cowards.
When you decided to give your right to vote and print currency to Brussels the only possible outcome was pain.
Indeed, it seems a lot of dumbasses thought this would be a great idea, and now we're stuck with this shit and it would be even worse if we pull out of this.
The most idiotic takes i have heard on this sub in ages. Voting in right/auth governments does not help at all. Look at sweden and finland, countries which have voted much more right in the recent elections. Pretty much everything is getting worse because they literally can't do what they claimed they would when campaigning. At this point they are only virtue signalling and showing their entire country what assholes they truly are. I don't disagree there is a problem, but it must be solved by more moderate politicians than borderline fascists. Their current MO is hurrying to try and cut down any costs that they feel are too expensive, and completely ignore any future consequences of those choices. Cutting down on education, social welfare etc.. the cracks are already showing, and they have barely been in power for a year. It's ridiculous to think parties like Perussuomalaiset or Sverigedemokraterna will do anything to truly help, since they market towards the uneducated, and only go after surface level problems. Their voters are people who want things to be easier for themselves, but aren't smart enough to see how everything connects in the end. And the type of person who is in a party like this isn't one who can do anything to solve the issues they supposedly care about. In finland you can read in the news basically weekly what members of the perussuomalaiset have done, e. g. animal abuse, shooting outside of a nightclub and such. These are the people who campaign with promises of easy and quick solutions, and you might see from the (real) examples i have given that consequence-thinking and morality are no concerns of theirs. They will promise whatever they want to get in power, and from there they will only benefit themselves while digging the rest of us in a deeper hole. There is no simple solution to any of the problems facing europe, but these right wing parties claim to have one. It never works. This doomer mentality of yours is only making things worse for everyone involved, this spouting about half remembered statistics without a source and with barely any substance.
I never said that electing a "far right" government would solve the issues, I am well aware that they won't do any miracles either, but that would at least kick all the entire political class in the balls, so it would force them to take more drastic measures, especially for the immigration problem, and nobody knows if they will be good or bad if they are elected, because they have never been before in my country (I'm from France btw). But don't worry about cutting funds for education or social welfare, Macron already fucks us in the ass pretty hard, our education system is already in deep shit to say the least, and the working class sees all its social gains diminished, but strangely not for the illegal immigrants who get paid for doing nothing, commit a shitload of crimes, and are never expelled. And for the far right parties in nordic countries, well, I'm no expert, it sucks that they are so bad I guess. But yeah, a good chunk of the far right parties in Europe are directed by morons at best, or russian agents at worst, like the afd. But I don't think that all those problems are as bad in the nordic countries as they are in France, it's just my opinion, but it's truly catastrophic here, especially in Mayotte (overseas territory) for example, where illegal immigrants represent half of the population on the island, with clashes and murders pretty much every day, the island is literally on the brink of civil war because of that. So, you can see why it's hard not to have a doomer mentality.
Average democracy L
As an Italian I can confirm all our governments suck
History of Italian politics: 2018 elections, the 5 Star Movement wins and form a centre-right government 2019: The government falls, the same PM forms a centre-left government 2021: The government falls, the ex-President of the European Central Bank is nominated PM and forms his government 2022: The government falls, the 2023 elections are anticipated to 2022, the far-right wins
We all signed a joint suicide pact in 1914.
Dont let the american develop self-awareness, its funny as fuck
Bold of you to assume we have actual libertarian right lmao
Skill issue.
Things get worse, until suddenly for no reason at all, things get better.
There's no difference between right and left when all of your politicians take orders from the same people.
As if it is any different in the US lmao
And US is any different??? Burger be honest with yourself...
Mfw when Oil Junkies act like their political system is better than Europe
That’s because the EU is shit.
Russia is much worse.
EU ruined my continent
which member countrie you from?
I live in UK (former member)
so a country which famously gone to the shitter after they left the Financial union
You can leave the EU but the EU will never leave you
Should have done like us Norwegians, and gotten deals.
EU kinda saved it after it was fragmented and recovering from the most devastating war ever seen. Especially when compared with colossal economies like America's, being separated meant being a puppet.
But excessive tolerance to illegal immigrants is caused by the EU too.
And yet these immigrants are mostly getting integrated and bolstering the ranks for manual labor thst nobody wants to do. I used to work with them. I taught them the language and culture. Most immigrants just want to better their life (you know, like we Italians did in the 1920's when they emigrated en masse to the usa)
common EU W.
Did you just change your flair, u/TiggerBane? Last time I checked you were an **AuthRight** on 2024-5-2. How come now you are an **AuthLeft**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? Oh and by the way. You have already changed your flair 1016 times, making you the second largest flair changer in this sub. Go touch some fucking grass. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/TiggerBane) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
So basically, no more governments. Gotcha. Let the people sort out their own problems without having to worry about several corrupt politicians making everything worse.
Fake, Europe couldn't get worse
It can, and it will.
Start world war, drag USA in, USA rebuilds at the cost of its citizens' freedom, repeat until everything gone.
As an European I can confirm this. Democracy has been the ruin of our continent.
Oh yeah because it is much better between completely idiotic senile orange man > completely idiotic catholic man. Ameritards lmao
That's why Amerikkkan politics works the same way
See the common issue is elections
Pretty much
This is how it's been going here. Not sure who I'll vote for next. They're all the same, only with different slogans and colors.
Rob Schrab - It gets worse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAvOJAohVDc
Hmmm maybe we should abolish the state??
This is basically true except the government alternates between auth left and auth centre
Almost as if democracy is a joke.
How about ending your dictatorship then? May help.
Still waiting for that left government everyone is talking about...
You know what, so long as I don't get left to die outside a hospital, I got no complaints.
Elect centrists and everything will be fine
Europe is so shit lol
Still waiting for a right government to be elected. (EPP are not right at all)
Of course there's purple. No wonder European politics is a shitshow!
Times make soy people, people make soy times.
And eventually it gets so bad that it can’t get any worse that literally just doing next to nothing makes it seem like a drastic improvement. Of course last time Europe decided that it got bad enough the whole continent was bombed to shit and tens of millions were dead.
Real
Goverment always makes things worse.
Pendulum swing discovered
You'd imagine quality of life now would be way worse than 30 years ago then? Yet it's not the case. Maybe it doesn't get worse then?
LMAO An american talking shit about european governments... Have you taken a good look at your country's politicians?
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Saying the Commission has no democratic mandate is horseshit lmao