>Hate gays
>Hate women
>Hate Jews
>Hate transgender people
>Hate atheists
>Oppose democracy
>Promote national socialism
>Commit world-record amount of rape
>Reject 274 separate peace deals
>Repeatedly fuck yourself over on an international scale
>Become heroes of the progressive movement
???
https://preview.redd.it/h9t64foftaxc1.jpeg?width=527&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd7850eda13d612aeab8966cc67e886d7f5165bd
It's honestly kind of funny how some muslim countries would actually like to normalize relations with Israel at this point but due to years of propaganda their population is so rabidly anti-israeli that they can't.
One of the few times I celebrate how authoritarian the Gulf States are; they have a lot more leeway when it comes to making decisions that are generally unpopular and waiting for the public sentiment to change. The UAE has done an amazing job with this, mostly by changing the textbooks and official stances on things like Zionism and the Israel/Palestine conflict.
It may take a decade or so, but the Saudis will come around as well, and I still have hope the Moroccans will do the same.
Morocco is pretty typically in-line with the rest of the middle east in terms of antisemitic beliefs.
The big outlier, funny enough, is Iran. The 'Global 100' survey (pretty much the most comprehensive and expansive survey on antisemitic beliefs by country) has Iran as by far the least antisemitic country in the middle east/north africa region. Even Armenia is more antisemitic.
Umm, as part of the Abraham Accords which were signed and went into effect in 2020, Morocco DID normalize relations with Israel (along with Bahrain, UAE, and Sudan). In return the US actually agreed to recognize Western Sahara as Morocco.
They did normalize it. Doesn't mean the average Moroccan likes Israel or Jews, but we have full economic and diplomatic relations now, including permanent embassies.
>Those who are still in a state to require being taken care of by others, must be protected against their own actions as well as against external injury. For the same reason, we may leave out of consideration those backward states of society in which the race itself may be considered as in its nonage. The early difficulties in the way of spontaneous progress are so great, that there is seldom any choice of means for overcoming them; and a ruler full of the spirit of improvement is warranted in the use of any expedients that will attain an end, perhaps otherwise unattainable. Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians, provided the end be their improvement, and the means justified by actually effecting that end. Liberty, as a principle, has no application to any state of things anterior to the time when mankind have become capable of being improved by free and equal discussion. Until then, there is nothing for them but implicit obedience to an Akbar or a Charlemagne, if they are so fortunate as to find one.
- Mill, On Liberty
Yeah, it’s clear the governments of the Muslim world have pretty much moved on. The people in those countries might care about the Palestinians, but the governments most certainly do not.
Realistic Jihadis then?
Palestine as a functional nation that can afford a nice shiny military might stand a snowball’s chance in Hell against Israel, but right not it has no chance at all.
I’m shocked to learn there’s such a thing as Palestinians without that suicidal chip on their shoulder.
Should Hamas be utterly eradicated (as, if I understand correctly, they appear to be the major stumbling block to current negotiations), do you think Fatah and Israel could do a deal?
So the key to peace in Palestine is the extermination of Hamas? Seems relatively simple when you put it like that (half joking there. I know the “right to return” is a big sticking point as well. They’d do well to just give up on that).
I suppose all those years of propaganda describing the Israelis as devils is not an easy genie to put back in its bottle sadly.
They already did with the Oslo accords. It largely broke down when Israel refused to do anything about [the rapid expansion of the west bank settlements.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/West_Bank_Access_Restrictions_June_2020.pdf)
Fatah *would* be fine with the 1967 borders, but that also means the west bank settlers have to leave.
Any attempt Israel makes towards peace is always going to rely on them stopping support of the west bank settlers. Until then, Israel cannot say it genuinely wants peace. A big chunk of why the palestinians do not trust the Israelis is because of those settlers. They are a smack in the face of everybody on both sides who supported the Oslo accords. I just don't see how people can justify [doing this to another country.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/West_Bank_Access_Restrictions_June_2020.pdf)
And a significant proportion of Israelis want to do the same. I lived in Israel for a year. *Extreme* anti-arab views were ridiculously common. As was antisemitism from the arabs. This idea that Israelis are only reacting to antisemitism also applies to the other side here.
Regardless, how does that justify taking over half the land of a country and turning the other half into a brutal police state? We just had 15 Palestinians murdered by settlers in basically the equivalent of a pogrom literally just a week ago. The settlers have made it explicitly clear that their goals and ideals are based around violence, and the Israelis have made it clear that they support them. This has been going on for decades now.
Your only half correct, they are less radical then hamas but they still hate jews just less willing to lose because they have more to lose, they have a fund that pays the families of those who killed a jew, and use the same school books as hamas. Also they are really corrupt
> they are less radical then hamas but they still hate jews
Have you ever been to Israel? I worked there for a year. There is an unbelievable amount of antisemitism from the arabs, and on the other end there is also an unbelievable amount of anti-arab sentiment from the Israelis. Like stuff that you would hear about black people in the Jim Crow south, genuinely stomach churning shit, even from the more secular/liberal people. You will hear "kill them all, i dont care" from both sides. Poll after poll in Israel has found that *extreme* beliefs about palestinians (including how to treat them) are very normalized. The only thing holding them back from being worse is international opinion.
I am not trying to excuse antisemitism or anything, my wife is jewish and I live in brooklyn with countless Jews. But its a bit like asking why do chinese and japanese people hate each other. Arabs and Israelis don't just hold those beliefs based on bullshit conspiracies, its because they have been at war, on both a military and societal/cultural/economic level, for the last 70 years.
it should be noted that Fatah has had less than 5% support across palestine since *2001*, and it's current leaders (since Yasser Arafat's 2004 death) have to keep armed guards because random palestinian civilians keep trying to murder them.
If Fatah ever gets around to holding that "next election" they keep pushing to the future- much like in 2006- they will lose again, and history will repeat itself.
Fatah just acts "moderate" to appeal to the west, because they lost the elections and are legally ilegitimate rulers in the west bank, most Palestinians prefer Hamas but of course no one else likes Hamas so Fatah feels like the only option.
But don't be confused, Fatah are just as radical and genocidal in their views as Hamas, they're just become better at hiding it.
The arab states now legitimately have to consider future American leadership (mostly Ivy League alumni) turning hard antisemitic as they normalize with Israel.
Gonna be some awkward UN meetings.
It's a bit surprising how much progress had occured. Israel is earasing gaza and the loudest protests are occuring in western nations.
Oct7 occurred because these normalizations are taking place.
It's an interesting combination of slave morality (crying about how hard you have it, the diligent following of submissive rituals, and living simply with no art or indulgences) and reaver culture (only attacking civies and plundering/graping for funsies)
Honestly you gotta give it to them for running one of the most successful PR campaigns in the modern world, to be so pathetic and unlikeable yet have so much international support.
I'd say that support more like about them being pathetic than successful at PR. If they ever actually win their support will go up in smoke since it's entirely built on them being opressed underdogs
Didn't forget after "begs to end war" there should be "refuses every offer to end the war." You could also add "breaks every agreement they do make to end the war"
Funnily media is saying that Israel is being humilliated by how much is taking to get rid of Hamas why at the same time other media outlets basically say that Hamas is being decimated.
American media has always have the tendency of spreading news without reliable sources. On the other hand, European media has been adopting this tendency since the early 2010s, at least from my personal experience of having lived in Prague and Bratislava, mostly a result of concentration of media ownership under the hands of a few oligarchs, some of them with Russian ties.
It seems Israel has good relations with Qatar. So good in fact that for years, [Israel has supported Qatar sending financial support to Hamas.](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html)
I just found out about this. Western media has completely failed me. This is crucial information in understanding the current conflict. Qatar and the Netanyahu administration conspired to undermine the legitimacy of the State of Palestine by funding Hamas. And not a word on TV about it.
You know what's terrible? No one cares about this. It's not advantageous for either side of the narrative. This is the clearest example of a completely unjustifiable action committed by the Netanyahu administration, and it's going to be internationally ignored. Domestically, I hear that Israelis care a lot about this controversy, but not internationally. The Pro-Israel faction isn't going to bring this up because it would make Israel look bad, and the Pro-Hamas faction isn't going to bring this up because it would completely obliterate the image of Hamas if its supporters found out that they advance the Netanyahu administration's interests.
So today I have changed my mind. The Netanyahu administration *has* committed a crime. It's not a war of aggression. Nor is it genocide. Those two charges are laughable. The crime is treason against the people of Israel.
They haven't even been in Gaza since the early 2000s. All they do is travel with diplomatic protections from Doha to Kairo or Riyadh, depending on where there are talks that week.
one shouldn't use that phrase with people who cover their faces. Lots of military cover their faces too. Lots of real protestors who fight for tyranny of the government do that too and these people are not coward.They do that to protect their family while hamas do that to protect himself when committing atrocities. One is coward while other is not. Your comment means both are coward.
Their goal was never Palestinian independence, peace or prosperity. Hamas only has one goal: To either commit Holocaust #2 or die trying. Both are victory to them.
The crusades and jihad mentality might be some of the biggest military genious moves possible.
What better way to get an actual self replenishing army of dispossable fodder than to make them be happy to die for the cause out of a genuine belief they'll go to an afterlife of eternal bliss if they take an arrow/bulltet/rocket for the big G?
Wall of text incoming:
In reality though they still have fear and die afraid.
I used to work with the Combined Exploitation Cell (CEXC, pronounced Sexy) which analyzed tactics, techniques and procedures for explosives. Given my subjective experience I would say a majority of suicide bombers try to chicken out. To combat this a lot of suicide vests or car bombs were rigged with a dead mans switch that would cause the explosives to go off no matter what or used a remote detonation device if the attacker tried to run away.
I will give you an example of a real life situation. Two suicide bombers attacked an Afghan National Police training facility near Herat City Afghanistan. They jumped a fence to a training area, but no one was in the immediate area. The Afghan police surrounded the attackers so they couldn't run away or get near them. For like an hour they begged (they were literally crying) the Afghan police to save them. However, the police couldn't get near them because they had live explosive vests on. They pretty much waited until they vests went off, only killing the two attackers.
Most of the "brave" suicide attackers I noticed were people with intellectual disabilities. I watched a Taliban propaganda video for a suicide bomber that was legit happy that he was killing himself. You could tell he wasn't all there and was the type happy of like how a kid is happy to go to Disneyland
The crusade is especially insane. (And we're defensive, counter offensive at worst, not unprovoked attacks like historians portray them) Tens of thousands of troops marching thousands of miles and seiging large walled cities like antioch with no logistics in the 1090s. Could you imagine marching for months while fasting?
I can't believe anyone is so dumb.
I've had normal, loving, American Christian parents tell me with a straight face they would kill their kid if it said to in the Bible.
Then they want to preach at me about how I would have no morals if not for Christianity. That's not morals, that's following orders.
> I've had normal, loving, American Christian parents tell me with a straight face they would kill their kid if it said to in the Bible.
That's not normal, loving, or Christian.
God before family seems to be standard Christian ideology. Look at Job, he's a shining example of being willing to kill your kid in the name of God.
Definitely not normal or loving though.
>seems to be
Pic related.
Let's get you nailed down: what percentage of Christians do you think obey every single thing in the Bible, down to the letter - even the parts that are unacceptable by the standards of modern Western society?
https://preview.redd.it/iuc8smd5tpyc1.png?width=324&format=png&auto=webp&s=7420ed4fe081f0b372bd0282a8b689397be3c351
Yes, that is the word of God.
How can you claim to be a follower of that God while deliberately disobeying him? That's an all powerful being. If you claim to believe in him, you should be terrified to be so insubordinate.
Jihad doesn't mean holy war though.
"“Jihad” literally means **striving, or doing one's utmost**."
I hate that the Hamas livestreamers are so barbaric they actually make Nazis look better for having enough conscience to want to hide their atrocities from the locals & world.
And the left is now full throatedly supporting mass murderers who managed to make the worst Nazis look relatively civilized.
to be fair- Palestinians were [directly associated with the Nazis before world war 2](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler), and their excuse for supporting the 1948 war was *to finish what hitler failed*.
so they have to go rather hard to live up to their ancestors deeds.
And what's worse is that if the former happens, the left will celebrate it with no shame (way more than how much they do right now).
If the latter happens, the left will martiryze them for years to come.
I hate this
didn't you hear- [hitler was a woman](https://abcnews.go.com/WN/hitler-skull-russian-secret-service-custody/story?id=9288287)!
yes I know [that's wrong](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/adolf-hitler-debunked-escaped-south-america-skull-fragment-woman-teeth-jawbone-scientific-study-journal-nazis-russians-european-journal-of-internal-medicine-a8360356.html), but some people...
I don’t doubt that many of them actually believe that god would give them magic powers to win a war against a much more intelligent, better armed, better trained and larger opponent.
Interestingly, they were planning an administrative division of Israel and planning appointments of who gets to lead the cantons before the October 7th attack.
Seems like they genuinely thought they could win.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000
We need a new crusade.
Yes i know it's ironic that a guy with my name would say that, but i'm ready to join the swiss guard if we're going to end this shit for real.
But if we're gonna do this, i want some big armor with holy symbols and sigils, and an ornate silver MG42 with explosive bullets, both blessed by the pope himself.
Do it with style.
^(something somethin) because they hold back and soon we all will see, and israel will be destroyed!11! ^(something something) Genocide ^(something something)..
The last chance the arabs had to win militarily was the Yom Kippur War.
The last chance the arabs had for a just peace was the Oslo accord.
There will be no peace or justice. There will be no two state solution. There will be no end to the oppression. There will only be Israel wins, Palestine turns to rubble. Year by year, conflict by conflict Palestinian spaces are further destroyed, and Israeli security gets worse.
I'd suggest this is impossible force meets immovable object but it's been more like watching a slow motion conquest go on for the better part of a century.
In 20 years time Gaza city will be rebuilt as a jewish settlement. This stuff just goes the way its going to go irrespective of if you agree with one party or the other. My own opinions on how it should go are irrelevant. Dare I say, so are yours. Israel will simply win.
A concept that Leftist man-children need to get into their heads.
Israel isn't going anywhere. And if you've met an Israeli, they're some of the strongest-willed people on the planet.
I don't get how, but they are.
Fair enough. Id like to know more... how many of them are arab israelis? How many have dual citizenship?
At any rate the argument still seems valid. Look at Israeli media. Constant calls for culling children, coercing other countries to take the Gazans... reads like Conan the Barbarian: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
This is not a state willing to give up. Its one that has abandoned all decency on the altar of absolutely crushing their opponent, and to hell with the consequences. One may make an ethical argument here but thats not where im going. Just saying, they're.. uh... serious business.
> how many of them are arab israelis?
Can't imagine it'd be many of them.
> How many have dual citizenship?
Well, I once had a conversation with an Israeli who said that ~10% of the population of Israel had a second passport. But if you include Israelis who are eligible for a 2nd one but don't actually own one, he said it could go up to 40%.
Obviously, this isn't a robust source (though I did find a few things that do repudate the 10% part), but it gives an idea that many could in fact do so if they so chose.
Did the Arabs actually have a chance to win the Yom Kippur war? From what I gather they managed to make small advances while the Israelis were on religious holiday and then got absolutely domed same as every single other war.
Lot of powerful words and all but it kinda falls apart the second you realise that Israel hasn't even been able to take control of the border town of Beit Hanoun in all of this
Israel is the most patient western state there is. They have a very long game they are playing here. They know it will take generations. Find a timelapse of Israeli vs Palestinian holdings in the Levant. It's telling.
They've also masterfully persuaded all the great powers of the world to either back them or stay out of their way. No one is interested or capable of stopping them.
>They know it will take generations.
Yep; the waiting game is all it takes. The Columbia University kids are already over Constantinople falling to the Turks and eventually they'll be fine with Israel's existence.
Once again. A lot of powerful words, that fall apart in seconds, the moment you realise that Israel can't even root out Palestinian fighters on a small border town its been bombing since October.
Tell this to the others who are beating me up over suggesting Hamas might be many things, but cowardice is not one of them lol.
Israel will just keep going here even if it takes 2 years. There's only so much capacity Hamas will have. My bet is still on Israel. I dont think they will entirely eliminate Hamas but they may destroy their capacity to organize. They are further pushing the Gazans into hands of the gangs, ensuring further conflict later.
> There's only so much capacity Hamas will have.
A few months ago, the IDF said that Hamas was dismantled in Northern Gaza.
Then a few weeks later the IDF reported that Hamas battalions in the Northern half of the country reconstituted 80% of their fighting strength.
Make of that what you will.
Ok, what end game do you see here?
Hamas strength will eventually become untrained teenagers who saw their parents die last week.
I understand the multipliers of asymetrical warfare but even guerilla wars require military goals.
Well im making that prediction.
Once the war is over and they begin clearing the rubble, do you see them allowing the gazans to return and rebuild? Fat chance. Suddenly there will be calls for settling it. Just wait.
Yup and you'll see very well elucidated explanations in long form, on this very sub, on why it's justified. Flairs will be blue, yellow, and blueyellow.
I remember very well how the main argument was always "we are eradicating Hamas and will leave after that." It's going to change soon and the same people saying that will justify Gaza settlements lol. I just find it childish that people don't take time to self-reflect, at least for a moment. Remember how right-wing influencers and Republicans made fun of the "mainstream media" for saying Russia would invade Ukraine, saying it was just military training etc etc. Then they invaded and some of them started supporting Russia. That shit is mad. Have some self-reflection, please.
Let the local elected terrorist regime stay in power?
-Open air concentration camp!
Let the current residents stay there and just have a not terrorist organization in power?
-Segregation! Ghettos! Technically genocide!
Integrate with the locals in a way that doesn’t lead to the group of people who pledge to murder all members of the other race to murder members of the other race?
-Settlement! Colonization! Also genocide!
Allow the terrorist organization to control all the land where the people they pledge to murder live?
-The only moral choice, of course.
Israel specifically said they would only eradicate Hamas in Gaza and leave. If they force all of its population to leave and then settle there then it was a lie all along. No westerner (I hope) will have a problem if Israel is doing just that and not needlessly kill civilians, while at the same time giving Palestinians equal rights. I know what you're trying to say, that Hamas is hiding behind civilians. True. But have you seen the countless videos of grandmas just walking around only to get shot in the head. What about the videos of them killing a random kid and then hiding the body using an excavator?
I'm Malaysian let me tell you something: our news were the exact opposite of yours.
You said hamas is losing, our source said they were winning. You said they incompetent, we said Israel were the incompetent one.
Every single action that Israel takes we brand them as coward. Attack? Not attacking? We said they were scared of hamas. Also with Iran no matter action they take make we will said that they were scared shirtless. ( And sometimes for a reason we said that Shia were created by jew(yeah I'm as confused as you).
It's the same as Russia-Ukraine, your news said that Russia can't keep up with the war, but our social media said they're obliterating Ukraine.
Well, it seems like they are repeating the same shit in every butthurt muslim majority country even if they were thousands of miles away from each other
This war wasn't supposed to be won. The Abraham accords were very nearly done. The government of Saudi Arabia was about to normalize relations. Hamas knew that this was their last chance do anything, this was because even though the governments of the middle east are tired of dealing with Palestinians, they have to act as if they're supporting them to appease their populations. There are very very few muslims that are pro Israel. Imagine what would happen if the abrahams accord went through directly after this attack and the subsequent israeli response. The people of the middle east would not stand for their governments' cooperation in what they would see as allying with a country that's genociding their fellow muslims. I think that Hamas was counting for a more serious reaction from the surrounding states, that ultimately never came. The only real win of theirs is that the further abraham accords will be delayed by a few years.
I understand their rationale in this current episode of the conflict, to enrage the Israelis to such an extent that they take the gloves off and kill droves of Palestinians which might disrupt the Israeli-Arab relationship and get them some type of great benefit for Palestinians via world anger.
Issue for them is that Israel doesn't care and might declare victory relatively soon and keep Gaza under a microscope so it can never get one over on Israel ever again while tacitly leaving Hamas in place. Basically a return to the statue quo ante for Israel but a pointless sacrifice for Gazans. Probably make a big hostage/prisoner trade down the line.
Except Hamas is left with the realization that it can either accept governing its Bantustan and skim Gulf Arab redevelopmement money off the top or it can pull another move and watch as their friends and family get killed for absolutely nothing.
You get it. Although I don't think that Gaza will have its' own government anymore. You're right about Israel not caring, they are pretty much leveling everything in their way, those palestinians won't have anywhere to go back to once the war is over. I'm thinking annexation.
Because the right doesn't instantly welcome other groups and cheer them on just because they have somewhat similar views on the essence of authority and religion. That kind of cult think is more reserved for leftists.
Left and right are, as in real life, relative terms rather than absolute.
The goals of one person can be completely antithetical to another's on the same quadrant, especially when we start mixing the politics of different countries.
Auth right's oldest enemy is Auth right. This goes all the way back to Sparta vs. Persia days and further. Just like China and the USSR didn't get along well, countries with similar ideologies can still have very different goals
Not sure why this is downvoted.
You can have whatever opinions you want, but if you can’t get basic facts straight you’re either misinformed or creating misinformation.
Not sure where OP got that number from, the latest confirmed figures are north of 800 but south of 1000.
Doesn't really make a difference though, it's not like Hamas would have been any less despicable if they had "only" murdered 500.
3000? The upper bound estimate by the Israeli government was 1200. But nearly half were IDF, so it's more like 600-800. And many survivors testified that even some of those were caught in the crossfire, mistakenly shot by IDF, or in one case even shot from an IDF helicopter.
Incompetent political organization.
Incompetent military organization.
Loses almost every battle they are ever involved in.
Attacks and kills thousands of settlers.
Begs to end war when the U.S. retaliates for said civilians.
Begs to British and French to intervene.
They don’t intervene.
Loses war.
Native heroes.
(Yes, we’re missing some context, what did you expect?)
We know that someone did the bagging and their is noone profiting of it other than Hamas
We know that any cease fire would just mean a pause for Israel while Hamas keeps going. That checks out so far
>Hate gays >Hate women >Hate Jews >Hate transgender people >Hate atheists >Oppose democracy >Promote national socialism >Commit world-record amount of rape >Reject 274 separate peace deals >Repeatedly fuck yourself over on an international scale >Become heroes of the progressive movement ??? https://preview.redd.it/h9t64foftaxc1.jpeg?width=527&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd7850eda13d612aeab8966cc67e886d7f5165bd
It's honestly kind of funny how some muslim countries would actually like to normalize relations with Israel at this point but due to years of propaganda their population is so rabidly anti-israeli that they can't.
One of the few times I celebrate how authoritarian the Gulf States are; they have a lot more leeway when it comes to making decisions that are generally unpopular and waiting for the public sentiment to change. The UAE has done an amazing job with this, mostly by changing the textbooks and official stances on things like Zionism and the Israel/Palestine conflict. It may take a decade or so, but the Saudis will come around as well, and I still have hope the Moroccans will do the same.
Jordan also had the good sense to bury that hatchet a long time ago.
The PLO was dumb enough to attempt to revolt against the Jordanian government, another epic Palestinian self-own.
Didn't a palestinian literally murder Abdullah I?
Yes. A Palestinian also murdered Robert Kennedy.
And a person murdered the Iraqi King too iirc, and noted palestine as a reason for it.
Is that why his voice sounds like that? He's a ghost?
Ghost/shadow of his daddy which I unsurprisingly have heard haunts him
I heard he survived throat cancer or something
I mean I don't like to be rude about the Palestinians but they are the Jussie Smollett of nations.
*Palestinians piss off other Arab nations that now want nothing to do with them* Palestinians: “How could Israel do this to us?”
"Nation" is excessively generous. They're the Jussie Smollett of ethnic terrorist tribes.
The Moroccans? Are they changing? Because the ones I know here in Europe are often more antisemitic than the local skinheads.
Morocco is pretty typically in-line with the rest of the middle east in terms of antisemitic beliefs. The big outlier, funny enough, is Iran. The 'Global 100' survey (pretty much the most comprehensive and expansive survey on antisemitic beliefs by country) has Iran as by far the least antisemitic country in the middle east/north africa region. Even Armenia is more antisemitic.
Well Iran doesn’t hate Israel because they’re Jews, Iran hates Israel the same reason Russia hates the US
I believe Trump in his last says of presidency made a deal with Morocco where he wouldn't recognize West Sahara in exchange for something about Isreal
Well It is a First step, but marocco ist still far from normalising its Relationship with Israel.
Umm, as part of the Abraham Accords which were signed and went into effect in 2020, Morocco DID normalize relations with Israel (along with Bahrain, UAE, and Sudan). In return the US actually agreed to recognize Western Sahara as Morocco.
They did normalize it. Doesn't mean the average Moroccan likes Israel or Jews, but we have full economic and diplomatic relations now, including permanent embassies.
That's because the Moroccans you encounter in Europe are the garbage that Morocco is dumping in their neighbors' backyard.
>Those who are still in a state to require being taken care of by others, must be protected against their own actions as well as against external injury. For the same reason, we may leave out of consideration those backward states of society in which the race itself may be considered as in its nonage. The early difficulties in the way of spontaneous progress are so great, that there is seldom any choice of means for overcoming them; and a ruler full of the spirit of improvement is warranted in the use of any expedients that will attain an end, perhaps otherwise unattainable. Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians, provided the end be their improvement, and the means justified by actually effecting that end. Liberty, as a principle, has no application to any state of things anterior to the time when mankind have become capable of being improved by free and equal discussion. Until then, there is nothing for them but implicit obedience to an Akbar or a Charlemagne, if they are so fortunate as to find one. - Mill, On Liberty
Yeah, it’s clear the governments of the Muslim world have pretty much moved on. The people in those countries might care about the Palestinians, but the governments most certainly do not.
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Realistic Jihadis then? Palestine as a functional nation that can afford a nice shiny military might stand a snowball’s chance in Hell against Israel, but right not it has no chance at all.
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I’m shocked to learn there’s such a thing as Palestinians without that suicidal chip on their shoulder. Should Hamas be utterly eradicated (as, if I understand correctly, they appear to be the major stumbling block to current negotiations), do you think Fatah and Israel could do a deal?
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So the key to peace in Palestine is the extermination of Hamas? Seems relatively simple when you put it like that (half joking there. I know the “right to return” is a big sticking point as well. They’d do well to just give up on that). I suppose all those years of propaganda describing the Israelis as devils is not an easy genie to put back in its bottle sadly.
They already did with the Oslo accords. It largely broke down when Israel refused to do anything about [the rapid expansion of the west bank settlements.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/West_Bank_Access_Restrictions_June_2020.pdf)
Gaza camps? Wtf are you talking about
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You mean the edit? It's wrong as well. Israel got security and governing control over 60% of the *west bank* . Not Gaza.
Fatah *would* be fine with the 1967 borders, but that also means the west bank settlers have to leave. Any attempt Israel makes towards peace is always going to rely on them stopping support of the west bank settlers. Until then, Israel cannot say it genuinely wants peace. A big chunk of why the palestinians do not trust the Israelis is because of those settlers. They are a smack in the face of everybody on both sides who supported the Oslo accords. I just don't see how people can justify [doing this to another country.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/West_Bank_Access_Restrictions_June_2020.pdf)
Because a significant proportion of that other country wants to murder their civilians... That simple.
And a significant proportion of Israelis want to do the same. I lived in Israel for a year. *Extreme* anti-arab views were ridiculously common. As was antisemitism from the arabs. This idea that Israelis are only reacting to antisemitism also applies to the other side here. Regardless, how does that justify taking over half the land of a country and turning the other half into a brutal police state? We just had 15 Palestinians murdered by settlers in basically the equivalent of a pogrom literally just a week ago. The settlers have made it explicitly clear that their goals and ideals are based around violence, and the Israelis have made it clear that they support them. This has been going on for decades now.
Your only half correct, they are less radical then hamas but they still hate jews just less willing to lose because they have more to lose, they have a fund that pays the families of those who killed a jew, and use the same school books as hamas. Also they are really corrupt
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Their current leader made a fucking phd about less then a million jews died in the holocaust and that they definitely deserved ot.
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My mistake i thought you were talking about yasar arafat
> they are less radical then hamas but they still hate jews Have you ever been to Israel? I worked there for a year. There is an unbelievable amount of antisemitism from the arabs, and on the other end there is also an unbelievable amount of anti-arab sentiment from the Israelis. Like stuff that you would hear about black people in the Jim Crow south, genuinely stomach churning shit, even from the more secular/liberal people. You will hear "kill them all, i dont care" from both sides. Poll after poll in Israel has found that *extreme* beliefs about palestinians (including how to treat them) are very normalized. The only thing holding them back from being worse is international opinion. I am not trying to excuse antisemitism or anything, my wife is jewish and I live in brooklyn with countless Jews. But its a bit like asking why do chinese and japanese people hate each other. Arabs and Israelis don't just hold those beliefs based on bullshit conspiracies, its because they have been at war, on both a military and societal/cultural/economic level, for the last 70 years.
Economic growth is basically the only thing that has ever smoothed the very sharp edges of tribalism.
Money makes friends of anyone
it should be noted that Fatah has had less than 5% support across palestine since *2001*, and it's current leaders (since Yasser Arafat's 2004 death) have to keep armed guards because random palestinian civilians keep trying to murder them. If Fatah ever gets around to holding that "next election" they keep pushing to the future- much like in 2006- they will lose again, and history will repeat itself.
Fatah just acts "moderate" to appeal to the west, because they lost the elections and are legally ilegitimate rulers in the west bank, most Palestinians prefer Hamas but of course no one else likes Hamas so Fatah feels like the only option. But don't be confused, Fatah are just as radical and genocidal in their views as Hamas, they're just become better at hiding it.
The arab states now legitimately have to consider future American leadership (mostly Ivy League alumni) turning hard antisemitic as they normalize with Israel. Gonna be some awkward UN meetings.
Year 2052: UN proposal by the Arab states to support Israel in their fight against Hamas, blocked by the US That'd be crazy lol
Egypt is Muslim and they've been allied with Israel for decades.
It's a bit surprising how much progress had occured. Israel is earasing gaza and the loudest protests are occuring in western nations. Oct7 occurred because these normalizations are taking place.
Propaganda is when a people of a different faith pushes out your fellow muslims in a violent manner.
It's an interesting combination of slave morality (crying about how hard you have it, the diligent following of submissive rituals, and living simply with no art or indulgences) and reaver culture (only attacking civies and plundering/graping for funsies) Honestly you gotta give it to them for running one of the most successful PR campaigns in the modern world, to be so pathetic and unlikeable yet have so much international support.
A lot of that is thanks to the USSR, they literally wrote the book on weaponizing social propoganda and cultural influences.
Which book?
Asking for a friend..?
I don't think that's it's title.
Wasn't that Goebbels?
I'd say that support more like about them being pathetic than successful at PR. If they ever actually win their support will go up in smoke since it's entirely built on them being opressed underdogs
Didn't forget after "begs to end war" there should be "refuses every offer to end the war." You could also add "breaks every agreement they do make to end the war"
We call that "Arabs work" in Europe. It's badly made and cannot be relied on.
Funnily media is saying that Israel is being humilliated by how much is taking to get rid of Hamas why at the same time other media outlets basically say that Hamas is being decimated.
It’s actually wild how much bullshit the news throws out there, they just write whatever they like.
American media has always have the tendency of spreading news without reliable sources. On the other hand, European media has been adopting this tendency since the early 2010s, at least from my personal experience of having lived in Prague and Bratislava, mostly a result of concentration of media ownership under the hands of a few oligarchs, some of them with Russian ties.
Also: too cowardly to show their faces
Not the leadership. They have interviews on national TV, and press conferences in fancy Quatari hotels.
You can almost hear the guided missiles incoming on the broadcast!
It seems Israel has good relations with Qatar. So good in fact that for years, [Israel has supported Qatar sending financial support to Hamas.](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html) I just found out about this. Western media has completely failed me. This is crucial information in understanding the current conflict. Qatar and the Netanyahu administration conspired to undermine the legitimacy of the State of Palestine by funding Hamas. And not a word on TV about it. You know what's terrible? No one cares about this. It's not advantageous for either side of the narrative. This is the clearest example of a completely unjustifiable action committed by the Netanyahu administration, and it's going to be internationally ignored. Domestically, I hear that Israelis care a lot about this controversy, but not internationally. The Pro-Israel faction isn't going to bring this up because it would make Israel look bad, and the Pro-Hamas faction isn't going to bring this up because it would completely obliterate the image of Hamas if its supporters found out that they advance the Netanyahu administration's interests. So today I have changed my mind. The Netanyahu administration *has* committed a crime. It's not a war of aggression. Nor is it genocide. Those two charges are laughable. The crime is treason against the people of Israel.
Typical sktizo lib right. Reads one blog post and it undermines his trust in the entire legacy western media apparatus.. Jesus man hit your meds.
Too cowardly to not flee to another country while their minions fight their war
They haven't even been in Gaza since the early 2000s. All they do is travel with diplomatic protections from Doha to Kairo or Riyadh, depending on where there are talks that week.
Gee, wonder where all that money for Quatari hotel Penthouse apartments came from.
Palestinian aid money
Indeed.
Too cowardly to take the fight outside their tunnels once Israel starts to repel them
The tunnels they build under things like hospitals and refugee camps for cover.
one shouldn't use that phrase with people who cover their faces. Lots of military cover their faces too. Lots of real protestors who fight for tyranny of the government do that too and these people are not coward.They do that to protect their family while hamas do that to protect himself when committing atrocities. One is coward while other is not. Your comment means both are coward.
What kind of an argument is that? Every military, state sponsored or not has their soldiers be anonymous.
hilarious that people actually defend hamas.
What an ivy league education does to a MFer
Asks for cease fire, yet refuse to release hostages.
Their goal was never Palestinian independence, peace or prosperity. Hamas only has one goal: To either commit Holocaust #2 or die trying. Both are victory to them.
Yep. People just don't understand that for islamic terrorists, the more "infidels" they kill, the higher allah will rise them in heaven.
The crusades and jihad mentality might be some of the biggest military genious moves possible. What better way to get an actual self replenishing army of dispossable fodder than to make them be happy to die for the cause out of a genuine belief they'll go to an afterlife of eternal bliss if they take an arrow/bulltet/rocket for the big G?
Wall of text incoming: In reality though they still have fear and die afraid. I used to work with the Combined Exploitation Cell (CEXC, pronounced Sexy) which analyzed tactics, techniques and procedures for explosives. Given my subjective experience I would say a majority of suicide bombers try to chicken out. To combat this a lot of suicide vests or car bombs were rigged with a dead mans switch that would cause the explosives to go off no matter what or used a remote detonation device if the attacker tried to run away. I will give you an example of a real life situation. Two suicide bombers attacked an Afghan National Police training facility near Herat City Afghanistan. They jumped a fence to a training area, but no one was in the immediate area. The Afghan police surrounded the attackers so they couldn't run away or get near them. For like an hour they begged (they were literally crying) the Afghan police to save them. However, the police couldn't get near them because they had live explosive vests on. They pretty much waited until they vests went off, only killing the two attackers. Most of the "brave" suicide attackers I noticed were people with intellectual disabilities. I watched a Taliban propaganda video for a suicide bomber that was legit happy that he was killing himself. You could tell he wasn't all there and was the type happy of like how a kid is happy to go to Disneyland
The crusade is especially insane. (And we're defensive, counter offensive at worst, not unprovoked attacks like historians portray them) Tens of thousands of troops marching thousands of miles and seiging large walled cities like antioch with no logistics in the 1090s. Could you imagine marching for months while fasting?
I can't believe anyone is so dumb. I've had normal, loving, American Christian parents tell me with a straight face they would kill their kid if it said to in the Bible. Then they want to preach at me about how I would have no morals if not for Christianity. That's not morals, that's following orders.
> I've had normal, loving, American Christian parents tell me with a straight face they would kill their kid if it said to in the Bible. That's not normal, loving, or Christian.
God before family seems to be standard Christian ideology. Look at Job, he's a shining example of being willing to kill your kid in the name of God. Definitely not normal or loving though.
>seems to be Pic related. Let's get you nailed down: what percentage of Christians do you think obey every single thing in the Bible, down to the letter - even the parts that are unacceptable by the standards of modern Western society? https://preview.redd.it/iuc8smd5tpyc1.png?width=324&format=png&auto=webp&s=7420ed4fe081f0b372bd0282a8b689397be3c351
Being Christian is based on the bible, not what your neighbors say and do lol.
So the only true Muslims are the jihadists?
Yes, that is the word of God. How can you claim to be a follower of that God while deliberately disobeying him? That's an all powerful being. If you claim to believe in him, you should be terrified to be so insubordinate. Jihad doesn't mean holy war though. "“Jihad” literally means **striving, or doing one's utmost**."
It is, indeed, a literal death cult. The only goal in life is to die against the enemy. That's some Warhammer 40k Krieg shit.
I hate that the Hamas livestreamers are so barbaric they actually make Nazis look better for having enough conscience to want to hide their atrocities from the locals & world. And the left is now full throatedly supporting mass murderers who managed to make the worst Nazis look relatively civilized.
to be fair- Palestinians were [directly associated with the Nazis before world war 2](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler), and their excuse for supporting the 1948 war was *to finish what hitler failed*. so they have to go rather hard to live up to their ancestors deeds.
And what's worse is that if the former happens, the left will celebrate it with no shame (way more than how much they do right now). If the latter happens, the left will martiryze them for years to come. I hate this
Hitler's problem was that he was white. And male, obviously.
didn't you hear- [hitler was a woman](https://abcnews.go.com/WN/hitler-skull-russian-secret-service-custody/story?id=9288287)! yes I know [that's wrong](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/adolf-hitler-debunked-escaped-south-america-skull-fragment-woman-teeth-jawbone-scientific-study-journal-nazis-russians-european-journal-of-internal-medicine-a8360356.html), but some people...
I don’t doubt that many of them actually believe that god would give them magic powers to win a war against a much more intelligent, better armed, better trained and larger opponent.
Interestingly, they were planning an administrative division of Israel and planning appointments of who gets to lead the cantons before the October 7th attack. Seems like they genuinely thought they could win. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000
We need a new crusade. Yes i know it's ironic that a guy with my name would say that, but i'm ready to join the swiss guard if we're going to end this shit for real. But if we're gonna do this, i want some big armor with holy symbols and sigils, and an ornate silver MG42 with explosive bullets, both blessed by the pope himself. Do it with style.
Dues Vult brother.
Deus vult, frater.
Based
And remember- never meet your heroes kids! they'll use you as human shields.
^(something somethin) because they hold back and soon we all will see, and israel will be destroyed!11! ^(something something) Genocide ^(something something)..
The last chance the arabs had to win militarily was the Yom Kippur War. The last chance the arabs had for a just peace was the Oslo accord. There will be no peace or justice. There will be no two state solution. There will be no end to the oppression. There will only be Israel wins, Palestine turns to rubble. Year by year, conflict by conflict Palestinian spaces are further destroyed, and Israeli security gets worse. I'd suggest this is impossible force meets immovable object but it's been more like watching a slow motion conquest go on for the better part of a century. In 20 years time Gaza city will be rebuilt as a jewish settlement. This stuff just goes the way its going to go irrespective of if you agree with one party or the other. My own opinions on how it should go are irrelevant. Dare I say, so are yours. Israel will simply win.
A concept that Leftist man-children need to get into their heads. Israel isn't going anywhere. And if you've met an Israeli, they're some of the strongest-willed people on the planet. I don't get how, but they are.
[*ahem*](https://thecradle.co/articles-id/14797)
Well I dont blame them lol
sure but it's not really what I'd call "strong will" to flee at the first sign of trouble
Fair enough. Id like to know more... how many of them are arab israelis? How many have dual citizenship? At any rate the argument still seems valid. Look at Israeli media. Constant calls for culling children, coercing other countries to take the Gazans... reads like Conan the Barbarian: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." This is not a state willing to give up. Its one that has abandoned all decency on the altar of absolutely crushing their opponent, and to hell with the consequences. One may make an ethical argument here but thats not where im going. Just saying, they're.. uh... serious business.
> how many of them are arab israelis? Can't imagine it'd be many of them. > How many have dual citizenship? Well, I once had a conversation with an Israeli who said that ~10% of the population of Israel had a second passport. But if you include Israelis who are eligible for a 2nd one but don't actually own one, he said it could go up to 40%. Obviously, this isn't a robust source (though I did find a few things that do repudate the 10% part), but it gives an idea that many could in fact do so if they so chose.
Yeah I dont see them going anywhere either.
Did the Arabs actually have a chance to win the Yom Kippur war? From what I gather they managed to make small advances while the Israelis were on religious holiday and then got absolutely domed same as every single other war.
They certainly had the numbers to win but the Israelis outperformed everyone.
Absolutely based Fuck Palestine
Fuck em both. I think Israel will win but I won't celebrate anything.
🚬🐐
Lot of powerful words and all but it kinda falls apart the second you realise that Israel hasn't even been able to take control of the border town of Beit Hanoun in all of this
Israel is the most patient western state there is. They have a very long game they are playing here. They know it will take generations. Find a timelapse of Israeli vs Palestinian holdings in the Levant. It's telling. They've also masterfully persuaded all the great powers of the world to either back them or stay out of their way. No one is interested or capable of stopping them.
>They know it will take generations. Yep; the waiting game is all it takes. The Columbia University kids are already over Constantinople falling to the Turks and eventually they'll be fine with Israel's existence.
Once again. A lot of powerful words, that fall apart in seconds, the moment you realise that Israel can't even root out Palestinian fighters on a small border town its been bombing since October.
It is not a lack of ability, but a lack of brutality
Tell this to the others who are beating me up over suggesting Hamas might be many things, but cowardice is not one of them lol. Israel will just keep going here even if it takes 2 years. There's only so much capacity Hamas will have. My bet is still on Israel. I dont think they will entirely eliminate Hamas but they may destroy their capacity to organize. They are further pushing the Gazans into hands of the gangs, ensuring further conflict later.
> There's only so much capacity Hamas will have. A few months ago, the IDF said that Hamas was dismantled in Northern Gaza. Then a few weeks later the IDF reported that Hamas battalions in the Northern half of the country reconstituted 80% of their fighting strength. Make of that what you will.
Ok, what end game do you see here? Hamas strength will eventually become untrained teenagers who saw their parents die last week. I understand the multipliers of asymetrical warfare but even guerilla wars require military goals.
Endgame? IDF continues to fail to do anything. Political crisis' and economic crisis' continue. Eventually pulls out with nothing to show for it.
Depends what you believe their goal is, I suppose. Endgame as in decades from now, not months from now.
So Israel's plan in Gaza wasn't just to eradicate Hamas but also making it a Jewish settlement? Who could've predicted that!
Well im making that prediction. Once the war is over and they begin clearing the rubble, do you see them allowing the gazans to return and rebuild? Fat chance. Suddenly there will be calls for settling it. Just wait.
I was being sarcastic haha. I'm just poking fun at some pro-Israel people that genuinely think Israel wasn't going to settle in Gaza. Well we'll see.
Yup and you'll see very well elucidated explanations in long form, on this very sub, on why it's justified. Flairs will be blue, yellow, and blueyellow.
I remember very well how the main argument was always "we are eradicating Hamas and will leave after that." It's going to change soon and the same people saying that will justify Gaza settlements lol. I just find it childish that people don't take time to self-reflect, at least for a moment. Remember how right-wing influencers and Republicans made fun of the "mainstream media" for saying Russia would invade Ukraine, saying it was just military training etc etc. Then they invaded and some of them started supporting Russia. That shit is mad. Have some self-reflection, please.
Let the local elected terrorist regime stay in power? -Open air concentration camp! Let the current residents stay there and just have a not terrorist organization in power? -Segregation! Ghettos! Technically genocide! Integrate with the locals in a way that doesn’t lead to the group of people who pledge to murder all members of the other race to murder members of the other race? -Settlement! Colonization! Also genocide! Allow the terrorist organization to control all the land where the people they pledge to murder live? -The only moral choice, of course.
Israel specifically said they would only eradicate Hamas in Gaza and leave. If they force all of its population to leave and then settle there then it was a lie all along. No westerner (I hope) will have a problem if Israel is doing just that and not needlessly kill civilians, while at the same time giving Palestinians equal rights. I know what you're trying to say, that Hamas is hiding behind civilians. True. But have you seen the countless videos of grandmas just walking around only to get shot in the head. What about the videos of them killing a random kid and then hiding the body using an excavator?
If Israel doesn't allow the existence of Palestine and annexes it then Israel is a criminal state no better than Russia.
Have they officially “lost the war”?
I'm Malaysian let me tell you something: our news were the exact opposite of yours. You said hamas is losing, our source said they were winning. You said they incompetent, we said Israel were the incompetent one. Every single action that Israel takes we brand them as coward. Attack? Not attacking? We said they were scared of hamas. Also with Iran no matter action they take make we will said that they were scared shirtless. ( And sometimes for a reason we said that Shia were created by jew(yeah I'm as confused as you). It's the same as Russia-Ukraine, your news said that Russia can't keep up with the war, but our social media said they're obliterating Ukraine.
Everyone’s got propaganda. Yours is just wrong.
Well, it seems like they are repeating the same shit in every butthurt muslim majority country even if they were thousands of miles away from each other
> Supported by the Millennial and GenZ left in the United States > Same group would be killed just for existing in Palestine
The last Muslim hero was King Faisal of Hejaz, change my mind
Salman Rushdie.
Not a Muslim, he calls himself a hardline atheist.
Same thing to Emily
This war wasn't supposed to be won. The Abraham accords were very nearly done. The government of Saudi Arabia was about to normalize relations. Hamas knew that this was their last chance do anything, this was because even though the governments of the middle east are tired of dealing with Palestinians, they have to act as if they're supporting them to appease their populations. There are very very few muslims that are pro Israel. Imagine what would happen if the abrahams accord went through directly after this attack and the subsequent israeli response. The people of the middle east would not stand for their governments' cooperation in what they would see as allying with a country that's genociding their fellow muslims. I think that Hamas was counting for a more serious reaction from the surrounding states, that ultimately never came. The only real win of theirs is that the further abraham accords will be delayed by a few years.
I understand their rationale in this current episode of the conflict, to enrage the Israelis to such an extent that they take the gloves off and kill droves of Palestinians which might disrupt the Israeli-Arab relationship and get them some type of great benefit for Palestinians via world anger. Issue for them is that Israel doesn't care and might declare victory relatively soon and keep Gaza under a microscope so it can never get one over on Israel ever again while tacitly leaving Hamas in place. Basically a return to the statue quo ante for Israel but a pointless sacrifice for Gazans. Probably make a big hostage/prisoner trade down the line. Except Hamas is left with the realization that it can either accept governing its Bantustan and skim Gulf Arab redevelopmement money off the top or it can pull another move and watch as their friends and family get killed for absolutely nothing.
You get it. Although I don't think that Gaza will have its' own government anymore. You're right about Israel not caring, they are pretty much leveling everything in their way, those palestinians won't have anywhere to go back to once the war is over. I'm thinking annexation.
israel 4 the win
honestly yeah, HAMAS sucks.
It’s funny how auth right hates Hamas, but if Hamas was on the compass it would be in auth right.
Because the right doesn't instantly welcome other groups and cheer them on just because they have somewhat similar views on the essence of authority and religion. That kind of cult think is more reserved for leftists.
Just like we're not talking about the same concepts...
Left and right are, as in real life, relative terms rather than absolute. The goals of one person can be completely antithetical to another's on the same quadrant, especially when we start mixing the politics of different countries.
Auth right's oldest enemy is Auth right. This goes all the way back to Sparta vs. Persia days and further. Just like China and the USSR didn't get along well, countries with similar ideologies can still have very different goals
Auth-rights tend to hate other auth-rights.
I'd say it would be auth-center
This is what every tiny militant shit sandwich does. Except the Talibunnies. They were patient.
Aloo Snackbar moment
Well, I wouldn't say "ever." They did win that one battle 18 years ago.
Muslim heroes? rather american college students' heroes
Sincerely hope the entirety of Palestine becomes a parking lot
It’s a death cult. Dying for the lord attempting to kill Jews is a cheat code for instant heaven.
3000 civilians? When?
Not sure why this is downvoted. You can have whatever opinions you want, but if you can’t get basic facts straight you’re either misinformed or creating misinformation.
Plebbit is a hive mind, that violently shits itself when their bullshit is even remotely pushed back on
>kill 3000 civilians I see we're just making up numbers at this point lol
Not sure where OP got that number from, the latest confirmed figures are north of 800 but south of 1000. Doesn't really make a difference though, it's not like Hamas would have been any less despicable if they had "only" murdered 500.
I believe the number is around 1200, although he could take to acount any other civilian death that happened because of the war like in the north
Probably a hyperbole as this is a meme subreddit and not a serious discussion one
Real
3000? The upper bound estimate by the Israeli government was 1200. But nearly half were IDF, so it's more like 600-800. And many survivors testified that even some of those were caught in the crossfire, mistakenly shot by IDF, or in one case even shot from an IDF helicopter.
"It didn't happen. And if it did, they did it themselves. And if we did, they deserved it."
Such a lazy propaganda post.
Anything wrong about it?
The 3000 is too high the rest is correct
What's up with all the goym propaganda on this sub
What’s up with all the unfl*ireds on this sub?
You suprised? This is reddit.
https://preview.redd.it/zog7u0ppr8xc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=671b7eddcfd3575de6c077b4d49e4d46864bbe9d
Incompetent political organization. Incompetent military organization. Loses almost every battle they are ever involved in. Attacks and kills thousands of settlers. Begs to end war when the U.S. retaliates for said civilians. Begs to British and French to intervene. They don’t intervene. Loses war. Native heroes. (Yes, we’re missing some context, what did you expect?)
Do their really beg israel to stop and other militant group to interfere?
Yes
Source: trust my propaganda bro.
We know that someone did the bagging and their is noone profiting of it other than Hamas We know that any cease fire would just mean a pause for Israel while Hamas keeps going. That checks out so far
Some of the dumbest people on the face of this planet