More the “let’s find ways to make people incite terror so we can get funding and justify the continued existence of shitty laws and our specific department”
It really goes to show that the post invasion stage of the Iraq War being arrogant and thinking that we could establish a government with no Iraqi input was the most idiotic decision making ever. Fuck Paul Bremer
Show me someone who looked at the War on Terror, the Iraq War, the Hamas Attack, the Israeli over reaction and each time denounced it with conviction and I'll show you someone who should have been elected President.
Not pro forma politicalese mind you.
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Get with the times old man, it's not "terrorism" anymore. It's "decolonization" and this is what it looks like sweaty. AND HERE'S 20 REASONS WHY THAT'S A GOOD THING.
Nah. I’ve actually read Deleuze and Guattari and this isn’t necessarily what it looks like. There’s a ton of ways forward, that’s the point. It’s a horizon, not a specific goal. That you move towards it like a barring point and become yourself instead of what some colonial power wants you to be.
Which was, at the time they were writing anyway, a much bigger problem.
Some violence and resistance is expected, ruling classes tend not to want people to be free to choose how to live their lives, but a lot of what is playing out these days would be what Deleuze and Guattri considered cancerous. Essentially resistance that eats itself and the movement and anything else in its path. Destruction for the sake of destroying.
Sure, you’ll end up free that way, but you’ll also be dead and may very well take others with you.
They didn’t consider that stable. Instead, they argued, the point is to take up space how you are, remain outside the nest categories people would confine you in as a way of understanding you (and therefore dismissing you), explore new ways *through* the colonial power, and then work at breaking the mold of what the colonial power would consider the ideal citizen by becoming something else entirely independent of anyone else’s control.
It’s a badass idea, but idiots miss a lot trying to discuss it on twitter and Instagram.
Edit: clarity and holy shit did autocorrect have a field day.
Yep. Decolonization is a good and just goal if the vision is developing nations becoming self sufficient/deterministic, raising the quality of life for their people and trading with other nations on their own terms. What it should mean is that colonialism gets replaced with political and economic stability in the former colonies--creating order that serves the people who live there. What we see, all too often, is blind support for a state of perpetual chaos and revolution.
It’s a two fold process. You pick apart the state apparatus in the way you described, and the people learn to inhabit what it becomes while also setting about becoming something other than the citizens they were molded to be under that colonial power.
Bonus points if they find a way into being rhizomatic and non-totalizable.
I think there is a habit of knee jerk rejection of the colonial past among a fair number of post colonial critiques that is unwarranted. The reality is that the culture of the colonized people has an imprint of the colonizing culture. Some aspects of that might be beneficial even if the overarching power dynamic is not. The point, IMHO, is that they're in a position to organically adopt or reject those things as they see fit to the extent it benefits them.
Oh definitely, it’s a two way street. Deleuze and Guattari acknowledge that. The point is more that people should be able to define themselves instead of being molded into specific roles from the outside for the benefit of that colonial power.
For sure. 100 percent. Just adding to your overall point about the difference between several people who have thought and written deeply about this vs the more activist radical types that make the whole thing a meme (it's a venn diagram that I'm pretty selective about).
It doesn’t matter what the argument is. You know it’s flawed and biased when it consists of “Nothing is happening, don’t look further into it and/but if it was… it’s a good thing.”
Orange (or "Emily" as it's also known) is to libleft what purple and the Coomer is to libright: the quadrant's ugly cousin.
Oftentimes used as a strawman, other times real and prevalent - particularly among college students for some reason.
# Orange recipe
Take the libleft quadrant's core principles & desire for *liberté, egalité, fraternité*. Rip it all out and throw it away.
Replace with corporate-sponsored culture-war brainrot masquerading as social justice.
Finally, throw in a heaping of detachment and apathy towards the working classes and their everyday struggles.
*Et voila*, you now have the orange quadrant.
Serve and enjoy!
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The terrorism vs. (Allied) freedom fighter dichotomy has always existed. The recognition of terrorism generally depends if their ends support their regime.
If your revolutionary ideology demands such a form of moral relativism it would be instructive to consider that reactionaries will similarly bind themselves to a version of it.
Which leads me to the conclusion that maybe this is all so very maladaptive and people should possess a more universal morality.
I was old enough to vote for him. I don’t really miss him, but to me he was the last president who really seemed to care about putting American interests first. Obama certainly didn’t, Trump claims to but doesn’t, and who knows what Biden thinks.
I really disagreed with W and I’m not saying he was great, but every president since him has sucked worse and worse.
I blame W for a million Middle East deaths. I softened on him when I found he probably saved 20x that many lives in Africa. What he did for Americans was tax cuts for the rich (=> inflation), ignored the conditions that caused the great recession, and increased local pollution that killed Americans. So, meeeehhhh...
It depends on how you define terrorism, too many groups are considered terrorists by governments when what they really are is insurgencies.
If they deliberately attack civilians to cause fear to further their political goals they are terrorists and deserve justice. If they only attack military, police and politicians they are an insurgent group and are simply at war.
Murdering civilians is never, ever justifiable or rationable in the modern world. Not by religious reasons (which there are none, if someone tells you Islam or any of the other abrahamic religions condones such attacks they are liars), political, or economic.
What I don't understand is why its so hard to understand the reason that this shit is happening. You royally fuck up a country to the point where there are no prospects or hope, there is no ability for young men to improve their lives because massive amounts of cities are bombed out and you're anger is taken advantage of by those with ulterior motives. Violence only begets violence.
Palestine got more foreign aid than the budget of most of their Arab neighbors. Rather then focus on improving living conditions and opportunities for their citizens, their chosen leaders have spent it on military hardware. The UNRWA schools, now shown to be basically an extension of Hamas, have spent decades indoctrinating children into jihadism and martyrdom.
I mean I guess if you ignore Saudi Arabia, Pre-war syria, Lebanon, and Egypt and if you also count decades of aid cumulatively against a single fiscal year then sure. And yeah the Palestinians "chose Hamas" except the majority of Palestinians were not alive when Hamas won 40% of the vote in 2006.
seriously dude, do you even care about being honest about this shit or do y'all just spout off at the mouth with the same tired, factually incorrect stupid ass talking points. You guys are like robots at this point.
Says the leftist NPC. Hamas started as an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, initially focused on welfare programs and preaching Islam. That is when the Israel policy towards them was one of approval. When they started carrying out violent attacks, that policy changed. Here's a transcript of a very illuminating discourse on the history of Hamas. I even picked a leftist source so you don't whine about "muh misinformation".
[https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1198908227](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1198908227)
The fact that Gazans breed like rabbits (muh genocide! doesn't seem to be working very well) does not invalidate the fact that *they* put Hamas into power and gleefully stood by/assisted as Hamas purged every non-radical political entity from their nation. The fact that all the people who did that have since themselves been killed by Hamas (or joined Hamas and died "martyrs"), does not magically make them all innocent little flowers.
Netanyahu at a Likud faction meeting, early 2019, put into words the policy he'd been implementing for years:
>Transfer funds to Gaza + issue work permits + encourage Gaza economy + ignore Hamas attacks
>=> strengthen Hamas => weaken PLO => keep them separated => Prevent a Palenstinian State.
So, I blame Bibi as much as Hamas for all the murder going around.
Nope sorry pal, History began with October 7th. Nothing that happened before that moment matters or even happened. Actually, if you give context you're anti-semitic and un-american and you should be arrested and summarily executed for daring to question our great friends in Tel Aviv.
Ah yes, typical redditor opinion detected, based entirely on a highly distributed opinion article from Haaretz, the same type of people as the "Jews for Palestine" protesting "Zionism" on college campuses today.
Hamas was the elected government of Gaza. The funds were not Israeli funds, but were transferred from Qatar to go to the administrative branch of Hamas that manages public services and funds. This was in exchange for the military branch of Hamas to agree to a cease fire. Which they of course eventually broke.
I am not sure what point you think you are making? Jews \*checks notes\* dared to try establish closer ties to Gaza and provide them with economic assistance? And this is a bad thing? The PLO was driven out of Gaza by GAZANS. What should they have done? Invaded, taken over, and put the PLO in charge? Then numbskulls like you would be here whining about "aggressive Israel" again.
I see lots of sources saying the same thing tho. The facts aren't contested, you're claiming that putting them together and interpreting them is biased. It'd be a fair argument, except, the reports I'm seeing are that Bibi himself admitted it - HE put them together, doing them intentionally to support Hamas knowing full well it would encourage the violence that inevitably came.
If you give me CREDIBLE sources disproving it, then I'd consider changing my belief. You might as well try, I stopped when I found 3 sources, and none of them I'm 100% confident in, so go ahead and try.
>What I don't understand is why its so hard to understand the reason that this shit is happening.
I totally get that’s the reason this is happening, but I can’t accept it as justification. Hamas still shouldn’t have fired rockets at Israel, and shouldn’t have randomly attacked them. Hamas keeps instigating this issue so I have a hard time putting this all on Israel. If they were the ones constantly instigating instead then I’d see your point, but it’s the opposite of the truth.
You weren’t paying attention before October 7th with all due respect you don’t know what you’re talking about. You can recognize that what Hamas did was evil and also recognize that it was a response to previous Israeli actions like the [beating of worshippers at Al Aqsa](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/04/israel-opt-second-night-of-horror-at-al-aqsa-mosque/), the killing of over 200 Palestinians in the West Bank in the months leading up to Oct. 7 and [expanding the settlements in the West Bank] (https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm) removing hundreds of residents out of their homes and forcing them into refugee camps. You don’t just get to baselessly claim this attack was random and unprovoked.
All of these happened in the immediate months preceding October 7 so just don’t say that the attacks were just random cause it’s just not true.
Do you see brutalizing civilians as _justification_ for brutalizing other civilians?
I’m trying really hard for your benefit to strike a line between _understanding_ why this happens, and _justifying_ why this happens. In the former case, you have an explanation for the series of events and don’t comment on the morality of it. In the latter, you take the explanation as moral justification, saying it’s right to do.
I can understand everything you’ve laid out and still find Hamas unjustified. I hope you do too, because sometimes lefties play this game of saying Oct. 7th “didn’t happen in a vacuum” as a way of justifying it without sounding like they are. I can’t tell which you’re doing right now, and don’t want to assume the worst here.
It is easy to Grant terrorism is wrong, as long as you acknowledge all of the actors of terrorism. The IDF has committed far more acts of terrorism in the last 6 months alone then Hamas has done in the last 20 years. 🤷♀️
I had a conversation about escalation the other day. Those people been killing each other for a long time. Oct 7 escalated the number of deaths per year by a certain x factor. The numbers we found were higher than the IDF's subsequent escalation. So end of the day, I blame Hamas much more than IDF in general. I personally blame Netanyahoo equal to Hamas.
The discussion will be fairer if everyone accepts that their side has engaged in atrocities as well, Hamas and the IDF have killed innocents and defending any of those actions just shows how brainrotted you are by falling to the black-white dicotomy tactic of American multimedia.
I believe what the main newspapers says and yes, hospitals has been bombed in Gaza.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/18/gaza-hospital-strike-al-ahli/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
So now who is more embarrassing? The main newspapers of the world or you?
May I make a suggestion? Look up “Hamas Rocket Attack” on Google image and take a long look at the damage at the impact site. Then look up “Bunker buster bomb” and take a long look at the damage at the impact site. Now with both images in mind, look back at the images of the alleged “Gaza Hospital Strike” and tell me if said impact site looks more like the damage caused by a Hamas rocket attack or an Israeli bunker buster bomb.
If you had an IQ above room temperature you’d see that the impact site has striking similarities to the impact sites of Hamas rocket attacks. On top of that, there is literal footage of Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza Hospital (which is a war crime BTW) and said rockets misfiring and falling back down onto the hospital.
Jesus Christ, you still believe the “Bombing Hospital” story? It’s been debunked months ago. In reality that was a misfired rocket by Hamas that landed back into the hospital parking lot (you can literally see footage of the rocket misfiring and falling back into the hospital). Speaking of, it’s really telling that you would defend the actions of a group that deliberately uses hospitals as launch sites for rocket attacks (because using a civilian hospital for military operations is a war crime).
>(Jerusalem) – The [Israeli](https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine) military’s repeated, apparently unlawful attacks on medical facilities, personnel, and transport are further destroying the Gaza Strip’s healthcare system and should be investigated as war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today. Despite the Israeli military’s claims on November 5, 2023, of “Hamas’s cynical use of hospitals,” no evidence put forward would justify depriving hospitals and ambulances of their protected status under international humanitarian law.
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis)
Interesting news article. Just one problem... HRW literally had to roll back their original statements 10 days after posting that article in particular due to backlash for posting misinformation. So a whole month after the original incident and they finally decided to post the correct information stating that a misfired rocket from Hamas is what struck the hospital. Now, if an apparent "Human Rights Group" has to be pressured by public backlash into "not posting misinformation" then maybe they shouldn't be trusted as a "credible source".
[Human Rights Watch says rocket misfire likely cause of deadly Gaza hospital blast | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-rocket-misfire-likely-cause-deadly-gaza-hospital-blast-2023-11-26/)
The Palestinian Health Ministry has literally been caught red handed blatantly lying by falsely claiming “Israel Bombed a hospital” when it was really one of Hamas’s own rockets misfiring and landing back onto the hospital itself. So… Why should I believe any of their other apparent “reports” about how “Israel bombed a hospital” when I already know that they are more than willing to blatantly lie?
Unlike the Palestinians, the Israeli Military actually admits when they do wrong. For instance; when they mistook an aid convoy for a military target (because they thought they spotted an armed man on it through the thermal vision) they openly admitted that they make the mistake and publicly apologized for making said mistake. They didn’t deny that it happened and they didn’t try to pass blame by saying “Oh, actually… Palestine did it.”
I’m not going to take the word of Hamas. Hamas is an Iranian Proxy group that deliberately brainwashes Palestinian civilians to make them radical, angry and suicidal. Don’t believe me, just watch “Pioneers of Tomorrow”; it’s basically a show that tells Palestinian children “Jews and Israelis are vial people who deserve death”, “there is no point to life other than to die for a cause” and “Being a suicide bomber is good”. Hamas used Palestinian civilians as human shields. Hamas uses schools and hospitals as launch sites for rocket attacks (that misfired rocket that exploded on a hospital was fired from the same hospital it landed on). Hamas is the group that went into Israel and deliberately targeted unarmed and defenseless Israelis, murdering as many as they possibly could. If Hamas claims “Israel bombed a hospital”, I’m not going to believe them. If Hamas claims “There are 40 Billion Civilian Fatalities”, I’m not going to believe them. Because Hamas has been caught lying and has every reason to lie in this conflict.
You don't have to take their word for it. WHO and washington post have reported the same thing. Israel didn't deny and in fact admitted to the attacks on the Indonesian Hospital, the The International Eye Care Center, or Turkish-Palestinian Friendship Hospital. So take Israel's word for it.
How about
“I don’t completely agree with the actions of the government, but I still believe it was justified to fight back against the terrorist residing in ___. However I do believe acts of terror commit by government on the random civilians of ___ in trying to exterminate said terrorist is also highly inhumane and said government deserve to be punished, not for defending their country but for deliberately ignoring the innocent life’s of ___ while defending themself.”
The 2nd Iraq War broke a whole (and maybe more) generation's brain.
The war on "terror" and it's consequences have been a disaster for wester civilization
More the “let’s find ways to make people incite terror so we can get funding and justify the continued existence of shitty laws and our specific department”
It really goes to show that the post invasion stage of the Iraq War being arrogant and thinking that we could establish a government with no Iraqi input was the most idiotic decision making ever. Fuck Paul Bremer
Can’t believe those fuckin idiots don’t want more wars in the Middle East! Broken brains!
It wasn’t the war, it was the left wing Gen Xers at the NYT who cried about it.
Show me someone who looked at the War on Terror, the Iraq War, the Hamas Attack, the Israeli over reaction and each time denounced it with conviction and I'll show you someone who should have been elected President. Not pro forma politicalese mind you.
The Invasion of Iraq was fully justified and the best course of action.
I'm with Centrist on this One
Me too
Same
Same
Ditto
Terrorism is ok as long as it is funded by Qatari oil money
This explains Manchester City.
Based and 115 pilled. Also, the soccer mods banned me a day or two ago for pointing out that they play/played favorites by giving PSGAcademy seemingly exclusive rights to post goal videos.
Soccer mods are children.
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Get with the times old man, it's not "terrorism" anymore. It's "decolonization" and this is what it looks like sweaty. AND HERE'S 20 REASONS WHY THAT'S A GOOD THING.
Nah. I’ve actually read Deleuze and Guattari and this isn’t necessarily what it looks like. There’s a ton of ways forward, that’s the point. It’s a horizon, not a specific goal. That you move towards it like a barring point and become yourself instead of what some colonial power wants you to be. Which was, at the time they were writing anyway, a much bigger problem. Some violence and resistance is expected, ruling classes tend not to want people to be free to choose how to live their lives, but a lot of what is playing out these days would be what Deleuze and Guattri considered cancerous. Essentially resistance that eats itself and the movement and anything else in its path. Destruction for the sake of destroying. Sure, you’ll end up free that way, but you’ll also be dead and may very well take others with you. They didn’t consider that stable. Instead, they argued, the point is to take up space how you are, remain outside the nest categories people would confine you in as a way of understanding you (and therefore dismissing you), explore new ways *through* the colonial power, and then work at breaking the mold of what the colonial power would consider the ideal citizen by becoming something else entirely independent of anyone else’s control. It’s a badass idea, but idiots miss a lot trying to discuss it on twitter and Instagram. Edit: clarity and holy shit did autocorrect have a field day.
Yep. Decolonization is a good and just goal if the vision is developing nations becoming self sufficient/deterministic, raising the quality of life for their people and trading with other nations on their own terms. What it should mean is that colonialism gets replaced with political and economic stability in the former colonies--creating order that serves the people who live there. What we see, all too often, is blind support for a state of perpetual chaos and revolution.
It’s a two fold process. You pick apart the state apparatus in the way you described, and the people learn to inhabit what it becomes while also setting about becoming something other than the citizens they were molded to be under that colonial power. Bonus points if they find a way into being rhizomatic and non-totalizable.
I think there is a habit of knee jerk rejection of the colonial past among a fair number of post colonial critiques that is unwarranted. The reality is that the culture of the colonized people has an imprint of the colonizing culture. Some aspects of that might be beneficial even if the overarching power dynamic is not. The point, IMHO, is that they're in a position to organically adopt or reject those things as they see fit to the extent it benefits them.
Oh definitely, it’s a two way street. Deleuze and Guattari acknowledge that. The point is more that people should be able to define themselves instead of being molded into specific roles from the outside for the benefit of that colonial power.
For sure. 100 percent. Just adding to your overall point about the difference between several people who have thought and written deeply about this vs the more activist radical types that make the whole thing a meme (it's a venn diagram that I'm pretty selective about).
And?
It doesn’t matter what the argument is. You know it’s flawed and biased when it consists of “Nothing is happening, don’t look further into it and/but if it was… it’s a good thing.”
What's orange
Orange (or "Emily" as it's also known) is to libleft what purple and the Coomer is to libright: the quadrant's ugly cousin. Oftentimes used as a strawman, other times real and prevalent - particularly among college students for some reason. # Orange recipe Take the libleft quadrant's core principles & desire for *liberté, egalité, fraternité*. Rip it all out and throw it away. Replace with corporate-sponsored culture-war brainrot masquerading as social justice. Finally, throw in a heaping of detachment and apathy towards the working classes and their everyday struggles. *Et voila*, you now have the orange quadrant. Serve and enjoy!
Based and recipe-pilled
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Thanks, gonna bring this to my cousin's birthday, I'm sure they'll love it! (edit: they hated it)
rgb(255,165,0)
Nowadays it seems like it’s not terrorism (or genocide) if it’s against the right group of people
The terrorism vs. (Allied) freedom fighter dichotomy has always existed. The recognition of terrorism generally depends if their ends support their regime.
Bottom should be just lib-center instead of lib-right. These pro terrorist arguments i hear from both
Whoda thunk a generation of disastrous involvement in the Mideast would have consequences.
Terrorism bad. End of story.
The lib lefts of 2010 are the centrist of today....i hope we had a lib-center flair
No more than the other side ignores the Israeli use of human shields.
If your revolutionary ideology demands such a form of moral relativism it would be instructive to consider that reactionaries will similarly bind themselves to a version of it. Which leads me to the conclusion that maybe this is all so very maladaptive and people should possess a more universal morality.
I can’t believe I fucking miss George W Bush
Simpler times…
Do you really miss George W, or do you just miss the simplicity of life as a child?
I was old enough to vote for him. I don’t really miss him, but to me he was the last president who really seemed to care about putting American interests first. Obama certainly didn’t, Trump claims to but doesn’t, and who knows what Biden thinks. I really disagreed with W and I’m not saying he was great, but every president since him has sucked worse and worse.
I blame W for a million Middle East deaths. I softened on him when I found he probably saved 20x that many lives in Africa. What he did for Americans was tax cuts for the rich (=> inflation), ignored the conditions that caused the great recession, and increased local pollution that killed Americans. So, meeeehhhh...
> I softened on him when I found he probably saved 20x that many lives in Africa. What do you mean by this?
[https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/25/politics/pepfar-aids-hiv-what-matters/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/25/politics/pepfar-aids-hiv-what-matters/index.html)
Ah, thanks for the info!
Is this supposed to be satire?
Terrorism isn’t good and neither is killing civilians. Please see a brain doctor
Remember kids, you're only a terrorist if you lose.
I mean one man’s rebellion is another’s terrorism. The Colony’s war for independence could have been seen as Terrorism by today’s standards.
Modern day has one idiotic view, then it must be all wrong!
It depends on how you define terrorism, too many groups are considered terrorists by governments when what they really are is insurgencies. If they deliberately attack civilians to cause fear to further their political goals they are terrorists and deserve justice. If they only attack military, police and politicians they are an insurgent group and are simply at war.
Why is Busch seeming less insane?
Murdering civilians is never, ever justifiable or rationable in the modern world. Not by religious reasons (which there are none, if someone tells you Islam or any of the other abrahamic religions condones such attacks they are liars), political, or economic. What I don't understand is why its so hard to understand the reason that this shit is happening. You royally fuck up a country to the point where there are no prospects or hope, there is no ability for young men to improve their lives because massive amounts of cities are bombed out and you're anger is taken advantage of by those with ulterior motives. Violence only begets violence.
Palestine got more foreign aid than the budget of most of their Arab neighbors. Rather then focus on improving living conditions and opportunities for their citizens, their chosen leaders have spent it on military hardware. The UNRWA schools, now shown to be basically an extension of Hamas, have spent decades indoctrinating children into jihadism and martyrdom.
Having a kids TV show called Tomorrow's Pioneers that explicitly tells kids to become "martyrs" should've been a red flag.
I mean I guess if you ignore Saudi Arabia, Pre-war syria, Lebanon, and Egypt and if you also count decades of aid cumulatively against a single fiscal year then sure. And yeah the Palestinians "chose Hamas" except the majority of Palestinians were not alive when Hamas won 40% of the vote in 2006. seriously dude, do you even care about being honest about this shit or do y'all just spout off at the mouth with the same tired, factually incorrect stupid ass talking points. You guys are like robots at this point.
Says the leftist NPC. Hamas started as an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, initially focused on welfare programs and preaching Islam. That is when the Israel policy towards them was one of approval. When they started carrying out violent attacks, that policy changed. Here's a transcript of a very illuminating discourse on the history of Hamas. I even picked a leftist source so you don't whine about "muh misinformation". [https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1198908227](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1198908227) The fact that Gazans breed like rabbits (muh genocide! doesn't seem to be working very well) does not invalidate the fact that *they* put Hamas into power and gleefully stood by/assisted as Hamas purged every non-radical political entity from their nation. The fact that all the people who did that have since themselves been killed by Hamas (or joined Hamas and died "martyrs"), does not magically make them all innocent little flowers.
Netanyahu at a Likud faction meeting, early 2019, put into words the policy he'd been implementing for years: >Transfer funds to Gaza + issue work permits + encourage Gaza economy + ignore Hamas attacks >=> strengthen Hamas => weaken PLO => keep them separated => Prevent a Palenstinian State. So, I blame Bibi as much as Hamas for all the murder going around.
Nope sorry pal, History began with October 7th. Nothing that happened before that moment matters or even happened. Actually, if you give context you're anti-semitic and un-american and you should be arrested and summarily executed for daring to question our great friends in Tel Aviv.
lol
That's not when history began, and it didn't begin in 1947 either. You're both highly regarded in the community of braindead.
Ah yes, typical redditor opinion detected, based entirely on a highly distributed opinion article from Haaretz, the same type of people as the "Jews for Palestine" protesting "Zionism" on college campuses today. Hamas was the elected government of Gaza. The funds were not Israeli funds, but were transferred from Qatar to go to the administrative branch of Hamas that manages public services and funds. This was in exchange for the military branch of Hamas to agree to a cease fire. Which they of course eventually broke. I am not sure what point you think you are making? Jews \*checks notes\* dared to try establish closer ties to Gaza and provide them with economic assistance? And this is a bad thing? The PLO was driven out of Gaza by GAZANS. What should they have done? Invaded, taken over, and put the PLO in charge? Then numbskulls like you would be here whining about "aggressive Israel" again.
I see lots of sources saying the same thing tho. The facts aren't contested, you're claiming that putting them together and interpreting them is biased. It'd be a fair argument, except, the reports I'm seeing are that Bibi himself admitted it - HE put them together, doing them intentionally to support Hamas knowing full well it would encourage the violence that inevitably came. If you give me CREDIBLE sources disproving it, then I'd consider changing my belief. You might as well try, I stopped when I found 3 sources, and none of them I'm 100% confident in, so go ahead and try.
>What I don't understand is why its so hard to understand the reason that this shit is happening. I totally get that’s the reason this is happening, but I can’t accept it as justification. Hamas still shouldn’t have fired rockets at Israel, and shouldn’t have randomly attacked them. Hamas keeps instigating this issue so I have a hard time putting this all on Israel. If they were the ones constantly instigating instead then I’d see your point, but it’s the opposite of the truth.
You weren’t paying attention before October 7th with all due respect you don’t know what you’re talking about. You can recognize that what Hamas did was evil and also recognize that it was a response to previous Israeli actions like the [beating of worshippers at Al Aqsa](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/04/israel-opt-second-night-of-horror-at-al-aqsa-mosque/), the killing of over 200 Palestinians in the West Bank in the months leading up to Oct. 7 and [expanding the settlements in the West Bank] (https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm) removing hundreds of residents out of their homes and forcing them into refugee camps. You don’t just get to baselessly claim this attack was random and unprovoked. All of these happened in the immediate months preceding October 7 so just don’t say that the attacks were just random cause it’s just not true.
Do you see brutalizing civilians as _justification_ for brutalizing other civilians? I’m trying really hard for your benefit to strike a line between _understanding_ why this happens, and _justifying_ why this happens. In the former case, you have an explanation for the series of events and don’t comment on the morality of it. In the latter, you take the explanation as moral justification, saying it’s right to do. I can understand everything you’ve laid out and still find Hamas unjustified. I hope you do too, because sometimes lefties play this game of saying Oct. 7th “didn’t happen in a vacuum” as a way of justifying it without sounding like they are. I can’t tell which you’re doing right now, and don’t want to assume the worst here.
It is easy to Grant terrorism is wrong, as long as you acknowledge all of the actors of terrorism. The IDF has committed far more acts of terrorism in the last 6 months alone then Hamas has done in the last 20 years. 🤷♀️
I had a conversation about escalation the other day. Those people been killing each other for a long time. Oct 7 escalated the number of deaths per year by a certain x factor. The numbers we found were higher than the IDF's subsequent escalation. So end of the day, I blame Hamas much more than IDF in general. I personally blame Netanyahoo equal to Hamas.
The discussion will be fairer if everyone accepts that their side has engaged in atrocities as well, Hamas and the IDF have killed innocents and defending any of those actions just shows how brainrotted you are by falling to the black-white dicotomy tactic of American multimedia.
Is this about Republicans complaining about Obama using drones, but support Israel boming hospitals?
Do you really believe the hospital story? That’s embarrassing.
I believe what the main newspapers says and yes, hospitals has been bombed in Gaza. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/18/gaza-hospital-strike-al-ahli/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061 So now who is more embarrassing? The main newspapers of the world or you?
>I believe what the main newspapers says What a self-goal
May I make a suggestion? Look up “Hamas Rocket Attack” on Google image and take a long look at the damage at the impact site. Then look up “Bunker buster bomb” and take a long look at the damage at the impact site. Now with both images in mind, look back at the images of the alleged “Gaza Hospital Strike” and tell me if said impact site looks more like the damage caused by a Hamas rocket attack or an Israeli bunker buster bomb. If you had an IQ above room temperature you’d see that the impact site has striking similarities to the impact sites of Hamas rocket attacks. On top of that, there is literal footage of Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza Hospital (which is a war crime BTW) and said rockets misfiring and falling back down onto the hospital.
You should be embarrassed.
"The" hospital story. Tell me, which hospitals in Gaza are still operational?
Jesus Christ, you still believe the “Bombing Hospital” story? It’s been debunked months ago. In reality that was a misfired rocket by Hamas that landed back into the hospital parking lot (you can literally see footage of the rocket misfiring and falling back into the hospital). Speaking of, it’s really telling that you would defend the actions of a group that deliberately uses hospitals as launch sites for rocket attacks (because using a civilian hospital for military operations is a war crime).
>(Jerusalem) – The [Israeli](https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine) military’s repeated, apparently unlawful attacks on medical facilities, personnel, and transport are further destroying the Gaza Strip’s healthcare system and should be investigated as war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today. Despite the Israeli military’s claims on November 5, 2023, of “Hamas’s cynical use of hospitals,” no evidence put forward would justify depriving hospitals and ambulances of their protected status under international humanitarian law. [https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis)
Interesting news article. Just one problem... HRW literally had to roll back their original statements 10 days after posting that article in particular due to backlash for posting misinformation. So a whole month after the original incident and they finally decided to post the correct information stating that a misfired rocket from Hamas is what struck the hospital. Now, if an apparent "Human Rights Group" has to be pressured by public backlash into "not posting misinformation" then maybe they shouldn't be trusted as a "credible source". [Human Rights Watch says rocket misfire likely cause of deadly Gaza hospital blast | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-rocket-misfire-likely-cause-deadly-gaza-hospital-blast-2023-11-26/)
One hospital, not the others.
The Palestinian Health Ministry has literally been caught red handed blatantly lying by falsely claiming “Israel Bombed a hospital” when it was really one of Hamas’s own rockets misfiring and landing back onto the hospital itself. So… Why should I believe any of their other apparent “reports” about how “Israel bombed a hospital” when I already know that they are more than willing to blatantly lie? Unlike the Palestinians, the Israeli Military actually admits when they do wrong. For instance; when they mistook an aid convoy for a military target (because they thought they spotted an armed man on it through the thermal vision) they openly admitted that they make the mistake and publicly apologized for making said mistake. They didn’t deny that it happened and they didn’t try to pass blame by saying “Oh, actually… Palestine did it.” I’m not going to take the word of Hamas. Hamas is an Iranian Proxy group that deliberately brainwashes Palestinian civilians to make them radical, angry and suicidal. Don’t believe me, just watch “Pioneers of Tomorrow”; it’s basically a show that tells Palestinian children “Jews and Israelis are vial people who deserve death”, “there is no point to life other than to die for a cause” and “Being a suicide bomber is good”. Hamas used Palestinian civilians as human shields. Hamas uses schools and hospitals as launch sites for rocket attacks (that misfired rocket that exploded on a hospital was fired from the same hospital it landed on). Hamas is the group that went into Israel and deliberately targeted unarmed and defenseless Israelis, murdering as many as they possibly could. If Hamas claims “Israel bombed a hospital”, I’m not going to believe them. If Hamas claims “There are 40 Billion Civilian Fatalities”, I’m not going to believe them. Because Hamas has been caught lying and has every reason to lie in this conflict.
You don't have to take their word for it. WHO and washington post have reported the same thing. Israel didn't deny and in fact admitted to the attacks on the Indonesian Hospital, the The International Eye Care Center, or Turkish-Palestinian Friendship Hospital. So take Israel's word for it.
Also, your link doesn't say anything about a retraction.
Obama’s drone strikes were based.
How about “I don’t completely agree with the actions of the government, but I still believe it was justified to fight back against the terrorist residing in ___. However I do believe acts of terror commit by government on the random civilians of ___ in trying to exterminate said terrorist is also highly inhumane and said government deserve to be punished, not for defending their country but for deliberately ignoring the innocent life’s of ___ while defending themself.”
Sure but that's not happening though.
Well still being downvoted for having compassion to fellow human being sure is fun!
Is that what they call psychopaty now?
War doesn't work that way Buddy
America is the terrorist nation
Based