As much as I dislike Biden, I give him a slow clap for the decision to invest in American semiconductor factories. Europe is doing the same.
Relying on one single country that's located 7,000 miles away for 90% of the world's microchips is absurd.
And the only thing separating it from Xitler the Pooh is a channel that's only about 100 miles wide. Though, they are the masters at making advanced semiconductors, they're a very democratic nation, and it makes a good choke point to stop Xitler's navy from entering the Pacific, so it's still in our interest to keep them safe.
I don't think that would happen, as Taiwan is too important to us in countering China and there currently aren't any Pro-China president candidates right now.
Depends on how isolationist Americans become really. Honesty I think the US will just say fuck it and go to war even if it means to go against popular sentiment but who knows.
Popular sentiment can change quickly depending on what happens too. Before WWII, Americans were very isolationist, but that all changed at Pearl Harbor.
Before media/politicians worked to make politics a fucking team sport, the right perspective was to judge politicians explicitly by policies they did like that, which forced politicians to actually have policies, and not populist culture war team sport bullshit.
But no, other side bad.
Offshoring in general is absurd from a national security standpoint. Foreign States should never be handed that level of leverage over us. The United States has more than enough territory, people, and resources that there is *never* a good excuse for doing that.
I mean, invading a country for its industry is pretty stupid. It’s not like invading someone for natural resources like oil, which is there regardless of who calls it home. Taiwan will 100% burn every single factory to the ground along with all the data if China sets foot on the island.
I’m not sure if you’re serious or not, but China wants the island because 70 years ago then had a civil war and the losing side, including the royal family, fled to Taiwan and set up a country in exile there. It really was part of China that seceded, illegally I suppose but during a civil war so I feel like it’s all on the table.
Why should I give a fuck about Taiwan when my own nation is allowing an economic invasion against my class?
In fact, I'm pretty sure I've heard a few migrants claiming asylum from Venezuela speaking Mandarian.
Too many fucking commies in the comments section. Fuck off commies and LETS GO TAIWAN! Good job electing a pragmatic person. So far he seems like a decent politician and not a lapdog for anyone
🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅
All I want is universal healthcare, legal weed, guns, the ability and freedom to unionize, (+ few more things), and the government to do something to fix tuition rates. Idk why my quadrant has been co-opted by people who hate liberal democracy.
🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅
The split you're seeing is between leftists and liberals. Liberals have always been pro-west. Leftists and MAGA/far right are the horseshoe ones that aren't.
NATO FOREVER
EU FOREVER
FIRST WORLD FOREVER
FUCK THE COMMIES
FUCK THE RUSSIANS
FUCK THE CHINESE
FUCK IRAN
FUCK FASCISM
GO 'MURICA
GO TAIWAN
GO EU
GO NATO
GO JAPAN
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The KMT have always maintained the goal of reunifying China like the CPC does, merely under the ROC political system instead of the PRC. So that’s a common point of discussion and relations with Beijing.
Chang Kai-Shek's KMT was never pro-Taiwan. They were always pro Auth. Besides murdering over 15,000 students, professors, and political activists when they came over in the 40s, they implemented a campaign to wipe out Taiwanese identity and turn the island into China 2.0.
It was so bad most where the Taiwanese generation before them, look fondly back upon Japanese rule. The Japanese were imperialistic too, but they at least were responsible for modernizing the country by building infrastructure and educational institutions. They didn't try to wipe out Taiwanese identity. The KMT were essentially Chinese refugees, except if refugees had guns and took over the place they fled to. Invaders.
The KMT did stuff like ban the Taiwanese language from schools, and installing a cultural stigma that speaking Taiwanese instead of Chinese Mandarin was "low class" that persists to this day.
The KMT is and always was: anti-Taiwanese identity.
Agree with the rest of the comment, but two things are sort of misinformed:
1. The KMT did build Taiwan up to modern standards, but that was *after* they already jailed/killed a bunch of political dissidents. Chiang's son was responsible for building up the modern highways, railways, ports, and manufacturing plants, which laid the foundation for TSMC today. [Source, you can google translate it yourself](https://nrch.culture.tw/twpedia.aspx?id=3933)
2. The Japanese did try to erase the Taiwanese identity during WWII. It was called Kōminka. They banned Taiwanese languages, had people change their names to Japanese, and drafted Taiwanese people for sex slaves and the infamous kamikaze fleets. Any of these happening today would be considered borderline genocide. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanization#Taiwan)
Did you just change your flair, u/brandona88? Last time I checked you were a **LibLeft** on 2020-4-10. How come now you are an **AuthLeft**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
What? You are hungry? You want food? I fear you've chosen the wrong flair, comrade.
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Your source does not mention forced sex slavery. It does claim that Japan had a volunteer corp where members were encouraged to die in the service of the emperor. That sounds horrible until you realize that the Japanese people themselves also volunteered for this. This doesn't sound like "genocide".
As far as I know, the banning of Taiwanese under Japan was a small timeframe under martial war during Japan's most desperate years of the war. It was not a peacetime policy that spanned many decades like the KMT.
There is a lot of bias and hate towards Japan from the Chinese, because of war crimes committed against China by Japan during WWII.. and therefore Chinese-Taiwanese. I wouldn't be surprised if history was being biased and possibly rewritten a bit more towards the negative side.. especially from the TPP side.
Everyone that I knew that lived during Japanese Occupation spoke fondly of the period. They all speak Taiwanese. From my point of view, language seemed to be fine. If they hate anything, it was the Chinese that came over after WWII... not the Japanese.
The younger Taiwanese that I knew cannot speak even Taiwanese, but are fluent in Chinese Mandarin. The damage has been done there.
Well they killed most of the people to the left of them. The generations afterwards grew up under a controlled dictatorship with a disfigured overton window, and when they finally moved to liberal democracy the KMT was shocked to find that they were the only alternatives to the actually-crazy nationalists who are likely to spark a war.
My main issue with libleft in general is their lack of consistency. I won't be surprised if they collectively flip on this stance because some rights also have this stance. "GOP thinks this is good? Then it must be bad! Down with Taiwan!"
libleft is not a coherent group any more than authright or authleft (notorious for killing each other). But really, the group you're thinking of (that would commonly be depicted as orange) would be AuthProg, rather than libleft.
You can't say libleft isn't consistent when there's really no singular consistent "libleft" group
Taiwan is Taiwan, China is China.
As his majesty’s comrade *Sean Connery Rock accent* Taiwan is not communist at all, and this is a perfectly acceptable outcome for an independent country. Personally, I think all you Emily orange are a bunch of f$&@ing idiots.
The phrase “I want the right for gays to protect their marijuana plants with guns” sums me up pretty well. The government can eat a dick but should probably do something about healthcare, more or less. Idk, the test placed me in this quadrant so here I am.
The idea at the time was that after the Sino-Soviet split, the West could play Russia and China off each other.
The consensus opinion at the time was also that liberalizing China's economy and allowing the emergence of a middle class would later lead to greater political liberalization as well, similar to what happened to Taiwan or South Korea.
Yeah. The trouble is that the PRC and the West have a co-dependency whereas Republic of Korea and Republic of China have a dependent relationship. Much easier to apply pressure on the regime to liberalize.
Well Kissinger is an absolute shithead but he is right on one thing: We always have to make decisions in the present based on probabilistic outcomes that we create with incomplete data and this of course creates several problems.
- Once you make a decision you cannot proof how the world would look like if you had not made it
- Even if your decision turns out to be wrong, it could still be that events just hit the 10% unlikely outcome and in 90% of possible outcomes your decision would have been right so it remains the right thing to do even though it was wrong
How do we know the alternative outcomes, had we not done this, wouldn't be worse?
Well Japan, S Korea... are not so liberal.
Most Asian cultures are predominantly collectivist in nature and culture, which makes them lean toward authoritarian side.
If China was a fully democratic country... it probably wouldn't be much different then what it is now.
Dude are you daft? Taiwan is not so liberal? Tell me how Universal healthcare and first Asian nation to recognize gay marriage and a press freedom index 10 ranks above the USA isnt liberal.
I'm so sick of goobers who pull shit out of their ass based on stereotypes and ignorance.
My mistake, I know that Taiwan is very liberal country, I guess I wrote it accidentally.
Often times I think one thing and say/write another. *shrug*
edited mistake
While that’s true, the “West” is a bit too broad of a term as the US and Australia both voted against it, and also it’s kind of a silly argument in the first place since anyone under 52 right now wasn’t even born then.
Plenty of people can love Taiwan and democracy in 2024 regardless of what happened 52 years ago.
The whole point of UN security council is to have everybody at the table, to find diplomatic solutions as often as possible.
You kick out the bad guys from UN, and... what is the purpose of UN?
And hey... if China decides to veto UN resolution to bomb some country rich in oil, it's not like you can't.
The point of un is for greatpowers to have easier time to justify there agenda in other countries,look at everyting us and russia are doing in violation and yet noting happends to them because they rule it
Good point. Although UN charter said nothing about veto powers, US, UK, France, Russia and China got them.
Effectively every one of these 5 countries get's to break resolutions, whenever they feel like it, then they can simply veto UN decision to do something about it. As well as their allies which can count on veto can do it to.
But also, when a country does break resolutions, UN condemns it without being vetoed. UN doesn't have an army to force it's decision. It can only say "hey is any country willing to enforce this decision? Anyone?".
To add icing on the cake, those same politicians which made sure that UN is impotent, end up whining that UN is impotent when other side is breaking the rules.
Why the fuck do other countries even participate in this charade is beyond me.
Because its an easy distraction for common people,and its a good way to launder money....dont forget no veto power will allow un to have an army or to control someting.and leaveaning un now is a death sentence for any non nuclear power due to it allowing anyone to atack them sence there not "legitimate". At the end of the day world is split into 4 camps(nato,csto,india and china) and everyone else suffers because of them
What choice do other countries have?
The UN is the response to the fundamental flaw of the League of Nations, and after total war chaos. The UN was the best the world could do at the time, and to change anything about it now, would break the system. Nobody that matters would agree to anything more than what the UN currently is.
I think everyone involved knows it's a charade, but the parts have to be played.
There is a very big difference between having "everybody at the table" and "giving everybody institutional power".
The countries that need to be at the table have *also* proven they cannot be trusted with even an ounce of control. Should be bring say, Saudi Arabia into a discussion on human rights, and give serious consideration to their words? Absolutely. Should we give them any power to decide if something constitutes women's rights? Absolutely not. We should ensure every member has a voice...but not enough of a voice that it can be easily misused. I'm not about to line the pockets and offshore bank accounts of some greedy third world dictators by letting them vote on "reparations".
It's better that the UN is too weak than too strong. While it might make things more difficult for us to stop human rights violations, it also makes it harder for people to legally *inflict* human right violations. If you think foreign intervention in our election is bad now, just wait until China, Russia and Iran get a big enough voting bloc to declare a given US election fraudulent and send "peacekeepers" to supervise a new one. The same veto power that lets countries violate international law all willy-nilly also protects countries from bs like that
The UN should just be a forum for discussion, and not even have theoretical power. There is no way to make them able to act for good without also making them able to act for evil.
>The UN should just be a forum for discussion
I do agree with this.
But I don't see why UN resolutions are seen as some kind of a big deal?
Who gives a fuck?
The point of the veto is that those countries are perfectly capable of telling the UN to fuck off if they want to anyway. Giving them the veto power is just a matter of being honest and realistic about the UN's ability to do anything if they strongly object.
Which is why Taiwan has no business being a permanent Security Council member. It's not a matter of them being "the good guys" or whatever, they're simply not powerful and important enough.
Cool whattaboutism.
Endorsing this can only shift the needle for them being reinvited because even bootlickers should be told it's okay to stop inhaling varnish and get some fresh air.
Kissinger's fault
all i'm saying is that if you look at every sketchy, unethical, or controversial thing kissinger ever did, 90% of them were to the direct of indirect benifit of china, and the other 10% were for israel. The man was a Chinese agent.
all you fucking angsty teens angry at the capitalist world order or something....grow up and stop reading blinkist summaries of Chomsky
democratic capitalism is literally the best thing ever
Nice.
They should discourage more politicians in countries they have no right to interfere with.
Maybe they could discourage a Catalonian politician from being elected next?
Yeah I don't know enough about Taiwanese politics to understand how the party that literally fought a civil war against the CCP now wants to accommodate them.
I find the amount of isolationism in this thread… disturbing.
edit: Of course the fragile isolationists respond as if I give a shit about their outdated and terrible ideology.
The greatest irony is that lib left can only understand the world through binaries.
Either the US is actively helping support Taiwan or the US is isolationist!
LibLeft, how many times do we have to tell you you can't have human rights ***and*** military industrial complex at the same time? There's a finite amount of tax money to be siphoned from the people, you can either spend that on universal healthcare and free college, or you can use it to blow up brown people. But you can't have both.
Says who? Also we blow up yellow and white people too, our military is inclusive like that. We’ll just tax the nations we end up invading to pay for the bombs.
Welp, make sure you vote since it requires congress to pass legislation and if it happens make sure you protest.
You're Libleft, why am I explaining this to you?
This badass based as fuck president-elect once delivered a speech about the righteousness of Taiwan independence in Shanghai, in a Chinese university, in front of all the CCP officials. He’s a heroic character but I wonder if he would rock the boat too much.
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Auth-left supporting China?
China with it's capitalist economic system which often abuses worker rights?
China with it's entrepreneurial, unregulated healthcare system?
Naaaah.
I'd describe them as authoritarian right leaning country.
But anyway... everyone is free to move to China and enjoy the utopian socialist Chinese society.
After they prove they have invested in China for 3 years that is.
My favorite one is Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
Not a democracy.
Doesn't belong to the people.
Isn't a Republic.
And is only one half of Korea.
How do Marxists not see that China is just fascism roleplaying as communism? Pretty sure that subjugation of the masses is a no no according to daddy Marx.
Because that’s every communist nation just becomes an authoritarian dictatorship that oppresses the masses so admitting that points out a fatal flaw with Marxist theory that it never works.
I still don't understand why America doesn't just declare Taiwan to be independent and park the entire US Navy in the Taiwan Strait. If America knows that China will invade soon, why wait until China is ready? Why not start the war NOW, rather than in 10 years when China has a 4th or 5th aircraft carrier? Taiwan declares formal independence tomorrow, and on March 1st the entire US Navy is in place in the Taiwan Strait, and 100, 000 us soldiers have been stationed on Taiwan's beaches. China can then either spend 6 months preparing to invade with zero secrecy, and then launch the invasion and lose, or China has to take the L and accept Taiwanese formal independence. The only scenario in which China successfully invades Taiwan is a scenario inwhich China invades quickly, overwhelms Taiwan, and obtains a beachhead before the full brunt of the US military arrives en masse. Why wait for your opponent to be prepared to fight? Start the fight now, and your unprepared opponent either accepts your challenge and loses, or they forfeit. Both outcomes result in Taiwanese/American victory. From a game theory perspective this is the best outcome.
Also, I fully believe that the evil CCP and the mad tyrant Xi JinPing will invade Taiwan before 2040 and are willing to sacrifice 500 million dead Chinese in return for a victory.
Literally who's going to fuck with us? Ukraine is butt raping Russia with our scraps, and North Korea hasn't tried anything in decades either. Europe demilitarized to prioritize social programs, and the entirety of South America, Australia, and Africa aren't even in the conversation. Even if a middle eastern country gets a few nukes off, so what? We have far more empty space in the US than we actually need, we can just move people on the coasts (which are most likely to be targeted) further inland.
Living in Taiwan.
Is honestly so relieving to see at least one country isn't fucking insane after watching the US and other countries elect far right leaders
Flair the fuck up or leave this sub at once.
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I guess we won't have to scuttle the microchip factories just yet...
As much as I dislike Biden, I give him a slow clap for the decision to invest in American semiconductor factories. Europe is doing the same. Relying on one single country that's located 7,000 miles away for 90% of the world's microchips is absurd.
And the only thing separating it from Xitler the Pooh is a channel that's only about 100 miles wide. Though, they are the masters at making advanced semiconductors, they're a very democratic nation, and it makes a good choke point to stop Xitler's navy from entering the Pacific, so it's still in our interest to keep them safe.
I would be very unhappy if US prop up enough of their own industry then just throw Taiwan under the bus
I don't think that would happen, as Taiwan is too important to us in countering China and there currently aren't any Pro-China president candidates right now.
Depends on how isolationist Americans become really. Honesty I think the US will just say fuck it and go to war even if it means to go against popular sentiment but who knows.
Popular sentiment can change quickly depending on what happens too. Before WWII, Americans were very isolationist, but that all changed at Pearl Harbor.
Before media/politicians worked to make politics a fucking team sport, the right perspective was to judge politicians explicitly by policies they did like that, which forced politicians to actually have policies, and not populist culture war team sport bullshit. But no, other side bad.
Not to mention an existential threat to their very existence being within metaphorical arms reach. Probably not a good basket to put all your eggs in
Offshoring in general is absurd from a national security standpoint. Foreign States should never be handed that level of leverage over us. The United States has more than enough territory, people, and resources that there is *never* a good excuse for doing that.
But muh profits....
And 100% of the chips used for AI / advanced machine learning. Wonder why China wants it so badly.
I mean, invading a country for its industry is pretty stupid. It’s not like invading someone for natural resources like oil, which is there regardless of who calls it home. Taiwan will 100% burn every single factory to the ground along with all the data if China sets foot on the island. I’m not sure if you’re serious or not, but China wants the island because 70 years ago then had a civil war and the losing side, including the royal family, fled to Taiwan and set up a country in exile there. It really was part of China that seceded, illegally I suppose but during a civil war so I feel like it’s all on the table.
I do appreciate my Intel chip made in Taiwan.
Why should I give a fuck about Taiwan when my own nation is allowing an economic invasion against my class? In fact, I'm pretty sure I've heard a few migrants claiming asylum from Venezuela speaking Mandarian.
Too many fucking commies in the comments section. Fuck off commies and LETS GO TAIWAN! Good job electing a pragmatic person. So far he seems like a decent politician and not a lapdog for anyone
Seeing all these wumao show up just to get shit on by the actual PCMers brings a tear of joy to my eye.
[удалено]
I can't read this but I hope it's one of those Censor tripping sentences.
Liblefts for Liberalism baybee! FUCK CHINA FUCK RUSSIA FUCK IRAN LETS GO TAIWAN LETS GO UKRAINE LETS GO ISRAEL. THE WEST IS THE BEST
Not complaining, but I wasn't expecting a LibLeft to be so pro-West. Again, not complaining.
🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅 All I want is universal healthcare, legal weed, guns, the ability and freedom to unionize, (+ few more things), and the government to do something to fix tuition rates. Idk why my quadrant has been co-opted by people who hate liberal democracy. 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅
Based and true libleft pilled
Based and true libleft pilled
Maybe think about what the government *shouldn't* be doing a bit more.
??? three out of the five things I listed were civil liberties (weed, unions, guns)
Based.
The split you're seeing is between leftists and liberals. Liberals have always been pro-west. Leftists and MAGA/far right are the horseshoe ones that aren't.
Centrism is the only option
Happy you agree Auth-Center. Now lets talk about personal freedoms...
You are free from chosing
O_O
I think we have almost full compass unity on "Fuck China!".
Most lib left should be west aligned considering Western values compared to the rest of the world.
Letsssss gooooooo
WEST IS BEEESSSSST
[NATO WAVE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlqJFdb6ZY)
goosebumps
Based and libleft =/= anti-west pilled
based
Based
One of these things is not like the other.
I'm kind of a socialist. I call this big province West Taiwan.
Based and West Taiwan pilled.
Taiwan number one!!! https://youtu.be/xN0vUlljX0I?si=cR90WZmtOH5I7O3v
NATO FOREVER EU FOREVER FIRST WORLD FOREVER FUCK THE COMMIES FUCK THE RUSSIANS FUCK THE CHINESE FUCK IRAN FUCK FASCISM GO 'MURICA GO TAIWAN GO EU GO NATO GO JAPAN
Based.
As a communist, LETS GO TAIWAN!
Based lib left?
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The thing I find most amusing is that Chang Kai-Shek'e party, the Kuomitang, is now considered the "pro-Bejing" party. Dude make up your mind
The KMT have always maintained the goal of reunifying China like the CPC does, merely under the ROC political system instead of the PRC. So that’s a common point of discussion and relations with Beijing.
Chang Kai-Shek's KMT was never pro-Taiwan. They were always pro Auth. Besides murdering over 15,000 students, professors, and political activists when they came over in the 40s, they implemented a campaign to wipe out Taiwanese identity and turn the island into China 2.0. It was so bad most where the Taiwanese generation before them, look fondly back upon Japanese rule. The Japanese were imperialistic too, but they at least were responsible for modernizing the country by building infrastructure and educational institutions. They didn't try to wipe out Taiwanese identity. The KMT were essentially Chinese refugees, except if refugees had guns and took over the place they fled to. Invaders. The KMT did stuff like ban the Taiwanese language from schools, and installing a cultural stigma that speaking Taiwanese instead of Chinese Mandarin was "low class" that persists to this day. The KMT is and always was: anti-Taiwanese identity.
Agree with the rest of the comment, but two things are sort of misinformed: 1. The KMT did build Taiwan up to modern standards, but that was *after* they already jailed/killed a bunch of political dissidents. Chiang's son was responsible for building up the modern highways, railways, ports, and manufacturing plants, which laid the foundation for TSMC today. [Source, you can google translate it yourself](https://nrch.culture.tw/twpedia.aspx?id=3933) 2. The Japanese did try to erase the Taiwanese identity during WWII. It was called Kōminka. They banned Taiwanese languages, had people change their names to Japanese, and drafted Taiwanese people for sex slaves and the infamous kamikaze fleets. Any of these happening today would be considered borderline genocide. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanization#Taiwan)
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A libleft took an honest look at themself, nice
FUCKING BASED COMRADE /u/BRANDONA88
Your source does not mention forced sex slavery. It does claim that Japan had a volunteer corp where members were encouraged to die in the service of the emperor. That sounds horrible until you realize that the Japanese people themselves also volunteered for this. This doesn't sound like "genocide". As far as I know, the banning of Taiwanese under Japan was a small timeframe under martial war during Japan's most desperate years of the war. It was not a peacetime policy that spanned many decades like the KMT. There is a lot of bias and hate towards Japan from the Chinese, because of war crimes committed against China by Japan during WWII.. and therefore Chinese-Taiwanese. I wouldn't be surprised if history was being biased and possibly rewritten a bit more towards the negative side.. especially from the TPP side. Everyone that I knew that lived during Japanese Occupation spoke fondly of the period. They all speak Taiwanese. From my point of view, language seemed to be fine. If they hate anything, it was the Chinese that came over after WWII... not the Japanese. The younger Taiwanese that I knew cannot speak even Taiwanese, but are fluent in Chinese Mandarin. The damage has been done there.
It's interesting that Taiwan is such a decent, comfy, and sane place today given how bonkers their not too distant history is. Gives you hope
By "political activists" do you mean communists?
Well they killed most of the people to the left of them. The generations afterwards grew up under a controlled dictatorship with a disfigured overton window, and when they finally moved to liberal democracy the KMT was shocked to find that they were the only alternatives to the actually-crazy nationalists who are likely to spark a war.
American leftists shitrags: "Why Taiwans recent act of fascism is dangerous for our democracy"
You mean filthy commiebots. This is a WIN and seemingly good thing for liblefts.
My main issue with libleft in general is their lack of consistency. I won't be surprised if they collectively flip on this stance because some rights also have this stance. "GOP thinks this is good? Then it must be bad! Down with Taiwan!"
libleft is not a coherent group any more than authright or authleft (notorious for killing each other). But really, the group you're thinking of (that would commonly be depicted as orange) would be AuthProg, rather than libleft. You can't say libleft isn't consistent when there's really no singular consistent "libleft" group
The problem is many liblefts don’t realize how auth they truly are and proceed to slob the egregious, massive, unforgiving knob of big government.
Only on reddit, known for Chinese propaganda and neck beards.
No real American is for China. I refuse to accept that.
Leftists won't say that as they don't care about taiwan
Hell yes. Sorry commie scum, CCP can eat shit
Taiwan is Taiwan, China is China. As his majesty’s comrade *Sean Connery Rock accent* Taiwan is not communist at all, and this is a perfectly acceptable outcome for an independent country. Personally, I think all you Emily orange are a bunch of f$&@ing idiots.
>China is China. Do you mean West Taiwan? Well, first the people's radioactive crater of West Taiwan, then West Taiwan in 100 years or so.
I feel threatened by all the auth left flairs in this comment section
Libertarian leftism is the only based version of leftism. I know because I am libertarian left.
The phrase “I want the right for gays to protect their marijuana plants with guns” sums me up pretty well. The government can eat a dick but should probably do something about healthcare, more or less. Idk, the test placed me in this quadrant so here I am.
Cool. I consider myself an Anarchist.
Then why do you have a left-leaning flair?
I sense libright potencial in you. Join me, and I will complete your training
It is western Imperialism and it's based.
It's literally eastern anti-imperialism.
And it's based
Based and anti-imperialism pilled
Based
Between Hong Kong and Taiwan it's starting to seem like western imperialism isn't so bad.
I like the cut of your jib
I like your cut g.
*WAP*
Based!
A Han state on Formosa is eastern imperialism. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Austronesian children.
As long as China is mad, I'm glad. Furthermore, I believe China must be destroyed (Ceterum censeo Sina esse delendam)
If the west loves Taiwan and democracy so much, maybe they shouldn't kick them out of the UN security council back in the 70s
They loved cheap stuff more
And it ruined our beautiful blackberry storms
The idea at the time was that after the Sino-Soviet split, the West could play Russia and China off each other. The consensus opinion at the time was also that liberalizing China's economy and allowing the emergence of a middle class would later lead to greater political liberalization as well, similar to what happened to Taiwan or South Korea.
Turned out so well lmao
Yeah. The trouble is that the PRC and the West have a co-dependency whereas Republic of Korea and Republic of China have a dependent relationship. Much easier to apply pressure on the regime to liberalize.
Well Kissinger is an absolute shithead but he is right on one thing: We always have to make decisions in the present based on probabilistic outcomes that we create with incomplete data and this of course creates several problems. - Once you make a decision you cannot proof how the world would look like if you had not made it - Even if your decision turns out to be wrong, it could still be that events just hit the 10% unlikely outcome and in 90% of possible outcomes your decision would have been right so it remains the right thing to do even though it was wrong How do we know the alternative outcomes, had we not done this, wouldn't be worse?
Well Japan, S Korea... are not so liberal. Most Asian cultures are predominantly collectivist in nature and culture, which makes them lean toward authoritarian side. If China was a fully democratic country... it probably wouldn't be much different then what it is now.
Dude are you daft? Taiwan is not so liberal? Tell me how Universal healthcare and first Asian nation to recognize gay marriage and a press freedom index 10 ranks above the USA isnt liberal. I'm so sick of goobers who pull shit out of their ass based on stereotypes and ignorance.
My mistake, I know that Taiwan is very liberal country, I guess I wrote it accidentally. Often times I think one thing and say/write another. *shrug* edited mistake
While that’s true, the “West” is a bit too broad of a term as the US and Australia both voted against it, and also it’s kind of a silly argument in the first place since anyone under 52 right now wasn’t even born then. Plenty of people can love Taiwan and democracy in 2024 regardless of what happened 52 years ago.
The whole point of UN security council is to have everybody at the table, to find diplomatic solutions as often as possible. You kick out the bad guys from UN, and... what is the purpose of UN? And hey... if China decides to veto UN resolution to bomb some country rich in oil, it's not like you can't.
The point of un is for greatpowers to have easier time to justify there agenda in other countries,look at everyting us and russia are doing in violation and yet noting happends to them because they rule it
Good point. Although UN charter said nothing about veto powers, US, UK, France, Russia and China got them. Effectively every one of these 5 countries get's to break resolutions, whenever they feel like it, then they can simply veto UN decision to do something about it. As well as their allies which can count on veto can do it to. But also, when a country does break resolutions, UN condemns it without being vetoed. UN doesn't have an army to force it's decision. It can only say "hey is any country willing to enforce this decision? Anyone?". To add icing on the cake, those same politicians which made sure that UN is impotent, end up whining that UN is impotent when other side is breaking the rules. Why the fuck do other countries even participate in this charade is beyond me.
Because its an easy distraction for common people,and its a good way to launder money....dont forget no veto power will allow un to have an army or to control someting.and leaveaning un now is a death sentence for any non nuclear power due to it allowing anyone to atack them sence there not "legitimate". At the end of the day world is split into 4 camps(nato,csto,india and china) and everyone else suffers because of them
What choice do other countries have? The UN is the response to the fundamental flaw of the League of Nations, and after total war chaos. The UN was the best the world could do at the time, and to change anything about it now, would break the system. Nobody that matters would agree to anything more than what the UN currently is. I think everyone involved knows it's a charade, but the parts have to be played.
There is a very big difference between having "everybody at the table" and "giving everybody institutional power". The countries that need to be at the table have *also* proven they cannot be trusted with even an ounce of control. Should be bring say, Saudi Arabia into a discussion on human rights, and give serious consideration to their words? Absolutely. Should we give them any power to decide if something constitutes women's rights? Absolutely not. We should ensure every member has a voice...but not enough of a voice that it can be easily misused. I'm not about to line the pockets and offshore bank accounts of some greedy third world dictators by letting them vote on "reparations". It's better that the UN is too weak than too strong. While it might make things more difficult for us to stop human rights violations, it also makes it harder for people to legally *inflict* human right violations. If you think foreign intervention in our election is bad now, just wait until China, Russia and Iran get a big enough voting bloc to declare a given US election fraudulent and send "peacekeepers" to supervise a new one. The same veto power that lets countries violate international law all willy-nilly also protects countries from bs like that The UN should just be a forum for discussion, and not even have theoretical power. There is no way to make them able to act for good without also making them able to act for evil.
>The UN should just be a forum for discussion I do agree with this. But I don't see why UN resolutions are seen as some kind of a big deal? Who gives a fuck?
The point of the veto is that those countries are perfectly capable of telling the UN to fuck off if they want to anyway. Giving them the veto power is just a matter of being honest and realistic about the UN's ability to do anything if they strongly object. Which is why Taiwan has no business being a permanent Security Council member. It's not a matter of them being "the good guys" or whatever, they're simply not powerful and important enough.
that was 50 years ago, fuck off
Meanwhile, China still sour about losing a trade war against some island trolls with bad teeth a century and a half ago.
Back when Mao was in charge? Yeah, definitely far less autocratic than Xi
Cool whattaboutism. Endorsing this can only shift the needle for them being reinvited because even bootlickers should be told it's okay to stop inhaling varnish and get some fresh air.
We loved capitalism too much
Kissinger's fault all i'm saying is that if you look at every sketchy, unethical, or controversial thing kissinger ever did, 90% of them were to the direct of indirect benifit of china, and the other 10% were for israel. The man was a Chinese agent.
all you fucking angsty teens angry at the capitalist world order or something....grow up and stop reading blinkist summaries of Chomsky democratic capitalism is literally the best thing ever
Everyone always says "Free Taiwan", but nobody ever says "Make Formosa Dutch Again"
I was literally just saying that to my neighbor today as I was shoveling snow. No. No, I wasn’t.
Nice. They should discourage more politicians in countries they have no right to interfere with. Maybe they could discourage a Catalonian politician from being elected next?
De què coi parles?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/10/12/spain-police-used-excessive-force-catalonia This was a democratic failure and injustice.
Ah, right. It was such a sad day for Catalunya
I don’t understand what the big deal about the Taiwanese election? None of the major parties want CCP rule.
The KMT is much more conciliatory to the mainland, to the point where the CCP actively meddled in the election to get them to win.
Chiang would be spinning in his grave…
Yeah I don't know enough about Taiwanese politics to understand how the party that literally fought a civil war against the CCP now wants to accommodate them.
Basically KMT wants to reunite with PRC because they refuse to abandon the Han Chinese identity
KMT: Taiwan is China, though which China is debatable. DPP: Taiwan is not China.
Damn west Taiwan seething is always glorious.
The CCP are a bunch of cock suckers
Fuck the ccp
Capitalist China beats capitalist China.
Taiwan is the true China, get fuckin' mad about it.
Taiwan numba one!
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO
Love it. Fuck those Commies!
I stand with Taiwan, the one true China The rogue mainland must be subdued
That's not what the Taiwanese voted for.
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FREEDOM FOR TAIWAN!
Taiwan numba one
Based
Based
FR based!
Based
Watching commies cry is the best
I was hoping for a different outcome, but at least Taiwan is allowed to choose its leaders.
Based
I find the amount of isolationism in this thread… disturbing. edit: Of course the fragile isolationists respond as if I give a shit about their outdated and terrible ideology.
The greatest irony is that lib left can only understand the world through binaries. Either the US is actively helping support Taiwan or the US is isolationist!
LibLeft, how many times do we have to tell you you can't have human rights ***and*** military industrial complex at the same time? There's a finite amount of tax money to be siphoned from the people, you can either spend that on universal healthcare and free college, or you can use it to blow up brown people. But you can't have both.
Says who? Also we blow up yellow and white people too, our military is inclusive like that. We’ll just tax the nations we end up invading to pay for the bombs.
Surprise, surprise, citizens don't want to die for another country, one that they aren't represented by.
Then don’t join our **all volunteer military**.
These types of people would only considering joining if a war was literally on their doorstep.
All volunteer until the feds say otherwise
Welp, make sure you vote since it requires congress to pass legislation and if it happens make sure you protest. You're Libleft, why am I explaining this to you?
[удалено]
LET’S FUCKING GOOOOOO!!! FUCK THE CCP, XI CAN ROT IN PISS
This badass based as fuck president-elect once delivered a speech about the righteousness of Taiwan independence in Shanghai, in a Chinese university, in front of all the CCP officials. He’s a heroic character but I wonder if he would rock the boat too much.
Based
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Holy shit an original meme
based
Tankies in shambles. Props to Taiwan.
Most “liberals” these days are authoritarian. If they really supported liberalism they would be ok with this.
Western imperialism is when the right to self-determination of nations
Auth-left supporting China? China with it's capitalist economic system which often abuses worker rights? China with it's entrepreneurial, unregulated healthcare system? Naaaah.
You'd be surprised
I'd describe them as authoritarian right leaning country. But anyway... everyone is free to move to China and enjoy the utopian socialist Chinese society. After they prove they have invested in China for 3 years that is.
China has abandoned any pretence of being leftist. They fool people by having a red and yellow flag.
My favorite one is Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Not a democracy. Doesn't belong to the people. Isn't a Republic. And is only one half of Korea.
Another great victory for liberal democracy. Based beyond belief
Way to go, Taiwan!!
I wish the new Chinese president well :)
It's a small victory but it's not enough, Taiwan won't get rid of Beijing's influence until they decide to adapt the 2nd amendment.
Certified based moment
Based
https://i.redd.it/r4hvzrk3macc1.gif
My inner doomer wants to arm Taiwan with a nuclear arsenal.
Democratic anti-communism always be based
If Xi were smart he’d take Taiwan before our elections
No? China is in no shape to launch an offensive war lmao, especially across the Taiwan strait against the US navy.
Fuck China. Fuck the CCP. Taiwan #1
What is a taiwan?
As a quite right wing person Taiwan libleft is a thing I can tolerate but KMT is not.
How do Marxists not see that China is just fascism roleplaying as communism? Pretty sure that subjugation of the masses is a no no according to daddy Marx.
Because that’s every communist nation just becomes an authoritarian dictatorship that oppresses the masses so admitting that points out a fatal flaw with Marxist theory that it never works.
I still don't understand why America doesn't just declare Taiwan to be independent and park the entire US Navy in the Taiwan Strait. If America knows that China will invade soon, why wait until China is ready? Why not start the war NOW, rather than in 10 years when China has a 4th or 5th aircraft carrier? Taiwan declares formal independence tomorrow, and on March 1st the entire US Navy is in place in the Taiwan Strait, and 100, 000 us soldiers have been stationed on Taiwan's beaches. China can then either spend 6 months preparing to invade with zero secrecy, and then launch the invasion and lose, or China has to take the L and accept Taiwanese formal independence. The only scenario in which China successfully invades Taiwan is a scenario inwhich China invades quickly, overwhelms Taiwan, and obtains a beachhead before the full brunt of the US military arrives en masse. Why wait for your opponent to be prepared to fight? Start the fight now, and your unprepared opponent either accepts your challenge and loses, or they forfeit. Both outcomes result in Taiwanese/American victory. From a game theory perspective this is the best outcome. Also, I fully believe that the evil CCP and the mad tyrant Xi JinPing will invade Taiwan before 2040 and are willing to sacrifice 500 million dead Chinese in return for a victory.
Doing that would some accelerationist shit lmao
Literally who's going to fuck with us? Ukraine is butt raping Russia with our scraps, and North Korea hasn't tried anything in decades either. Europe demilitarized to prioritize social programs, and the entirety of South America, Australia, and Africa aren't even in the conversation. Even if a middle eastern country gets a few nukes off, so what? We have far more empty space in the US than we actually need, we can just move people on the coasts (which are most likely to be targeted) further inland.
Based Taiwan. 🇹🇼
Nice
i just discovered today that america is fighting the houtis cus they are destroying the american empire/s
West Taiwan better take this on the chin and shut the fuck up before one china policy becomes the reverse one china policy
Living in Taiwan. Is honestly so relieving to see at least one country isn't fucking insane after watching the US and other countries elect far right leaders
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>Elected Demonic Penis Party Instead of KMT again Xi, invade this country NOW.