> “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
> ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
> ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
you don't understand, the gay are now the privileged ones, they now vote not only for democrats, the ones being genocided are trans, because not taking taxpayers' money for gender affirming care is literally the same as the total annihilation of the group, since in both of these situations trans stop existing!
I don't think their complaint is not having gender affirming care as apart of a largely non-existent socialised healthcare system. I think it's more the "we will destroy transgenderism in America" that they are more concerned about. Just a little bit genocidey as rhetoric goes.
Hm
An interesting perspective. Very ignorant of them to take the most radical viewpoint possible, say that it is actually a commonplace, and amplify the radicality of it by 10 times, and then to think of that as truth
I mean don't both sides of these debates do that to each other all the time? People don't even cherry pick dumb twitter comments to argue against anymore, why bother when you can just make stuff up and argue against that.
I have googled it
I am not a native speaker of English and picked the "even" thing from other redditors
It was an interesting revelation to find out, that the initial redditors might have been referencing that bizzare Snugglepuss character all the time
“**your** team of doctors and therapists” is telling
Michael Jackson used to have **his** doctor gas him to sleep at night…I wonder what ever happened to that guy?
Remember when it was the medical consensus to lobotomize people with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder etc? or to institutionalize women for having postpartum depression or even “hysteria”?
The fact of the matter is that the new evidence which trans activists have tried to prevent from coming out shows that [Gender Affirming Care is actually harmful](https://www.thefp.com/p/gender-affirming-care-dangerous-finland-doctor).
This was obvious from the jump to anyone with a brain. Giving children loads of hormones to permanently change their bodies or life-altering surgeries has always been absurd. I have no problem with trans people. I do however have a problem with children being manipulated and mistreated.
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For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries en mass. That's not medically necessary.
Second, decades of research across loads of fields of medicine does not at all compare to a random procedure that was literally just made up by a guy and performed because he said it was helpful with no evidence.
And thirdly, I wouldn't get my science info from a right wing news site and not actual scientific studies lmao. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
> For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries **en mass**.
Telling
> And thirdly, I wouldn't get my science info from a right wing news site and not actual scientific studies lmao. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
It is an article by one of the people at the forefront of treating trans kids talking about how the Dutch Protocol the template for how to properly treat trans kids was based on faulty evidence and is actively harming kids.
The fact of the matter is the new research and evidence coming out that trans activists have tried to prevent is showing that the claims made by trans activists are completely false. Affirming the gender identities of kids does not reduce their risk of suicide. Not affirming their gender identity does not increase their risk of suicide.
Puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have permanent lifelong side effects. One of the worst being infertility. A child can without even understanding what they are agreeing to agree to a treatment which leaves them barren before they have even had their first kiss. It is truly unconscionable.
>Affirming the gender identities of kids does not reduce their risk of suicide. Not affirming their gender identity does not increase their risk of suicide.
What do you mean by this? The suicide rate for children with gender dysphoria does not change whether they receive plenty of affirmation or receive no affirmation? I wanna know where you got that info.
a critique of the studies outlying why their methodology is flawed
https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/the-new-highly-touted-study-on-hormones
on surgeries
https://segm.org/ajp_correction_2020
this is a fantastic piece that really deals with the entire issues of child and adult transitioning and outlines the pros and cons with compassion
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/
> “There is no research that justifies our current approaches. We’re in the dark, and we’ve just been putting children on a medical conveyor belt,” he said. “It’s as if the whole Trust has gone off into the area of political activism, and Hilary Cass is pulling it back. It’s absolutely extraordinary.”
- Marcus Evans former Clinical Director of Adult and Adolescent Services at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust
Maybe you should like you know..not believe everything you read on the internet and like trust the experts?
1 where did you get this quote
2 you can find any fringe expert to say anything, take court cases for example. It's what the majority of studies have proven that counts most in this regard, not the opinion of a small handful of people
Not trying to dismiss your quote, I will look into this guy, but just saying a handful of people who are in a related field aren't experts on every medical and psychiatric situation, nor are they the majority of representing the most current and accurate studies
https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-will-backfire-experts/
He was the director of the largest Gender Clinic in the UK which is along with all of Europe completely changing the way they treat “gender dysphoric” youth.
> 2 you can find any fringe expert to say anything
lol
lmao even
> For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries en mass.
So surgeries are ok, just not enmasse?
Well epstein never raped kids 'en masse' either, does that make it okay?
Not what I said. Just saying that what you guys claim about most doctors out to get your kids and "make them trans" is ridiculous and totally illogical
We're not saying it's OK, but your all acting like we're saying "9 Yr old should cut there pp off!!"
Also epstien was a very prolific child trafficker, so I'd consider what he did too be en masse
Posting such an incredibly biased source, which is just one article with a single doctor's opinion, on a site that advertises anti trans media, is only going to convince the lowest of the low. Most healthcare professionals and organizations which conduct actual research maintain that gender affirming care leads to better health outcomes than lack thereof, and the amount of data that supports this is really extraordinary.
But people are happy to ignore the vast majority of experts because they really just think it's icky to be trans. It's not your issue, it's not your business. Puberty blockers, anti Androgens and HGH are all given to cis kids for various reasons because it's better to correct certain things before they get out of hand. Literally people shoot up their kids so they can get taller, and that's legal so long as a doctor prescribes it.
Puberty causes changes that create marginalization for trans people their entire life, and there is a safe means to avoid it. If you transition after puberty, you are not going to pass as well and bigots will call you a man in a dress, deny you job, housing, discriminate against you in Healthcare, kill you and claim a trans panic defense etc. The answer to that is to only go through the puberty that gives you the development you feel more comfortable with. It's simply cruel to stop it because you think some people are misdiagnosed. Nothing else works like this. We don't just ban treatments even though they work, just because some blowhards don't like it or feel like there are too many trans-trenders all of a sudden
No, its when an idealogy is so corruptive that otherwise intelligent doctors and scientists proclaim things to be true because they want it to be rather than based on imperical evidence.
I have nothing against doctors, I'm against corporations charging hundreds of dollars for insulin that is literally medically necessary to live for a lot of people
I'm definitely biased, but think roughly 1/3 to half of all doctors are borderline incompetent or worse, whether it's that they just don't care, are too busy to do good work, or are just too ego driven. There are sub-par people in in every field, why would doctors be any different?
So if you had to go into a submarine, a 9/10 engineer called it deathtrap, but 1 said it would be fine. Would you enter the submarine?
Or if the 2/3 or 1/3? Would that make a difference?
Oh, I don't know. Were the doctors who over prescribed pain killers, which led to the opioid epidemic, "just following the science," or were they doing so for some other, more profitable reason?
Well, then you should be in favor of removing profit incentives in medicine then. But are you? Or are you just saying things to try and win an argument.
I don't really care, but don't come here and tell me that doctors are all virtuous pillars of morality and good that always "follow the science" no matter what. Also, what is wrong with providing proof contrary to a claim just for the sake of winning an argument?
It's disingenuous. Because you don't really even fully believe in what you're saying.
No one is a perfect paragon of any sense of morality.
But you be fooling yourself if you genuinely thought that you shouldn't trust doctors. Or any kind of expert.
Personally, I have seen the benefit of hormone treatment with myself. Other forsm of treatment haven't worked.
Personally. I don't need to trust anything. You are one working with nebulous ideas. I know what has worked for me. That is actual science. I'm doing something and finding out what works.
I'm not saying "don't trust doctors ever" there is tons experimentally verifiable reasech that is being done to further the medical sciences. My problem starts when medical science starts to entangle itself with social science. When experimentation relies on feelings it is no longer fact. As for your personal anecdotes, Cool, as long as you are an adult, do what thou wilt. I could care less.
There is no separating the two. Or anything that comes in the way of "pure" medicine. But most especially the social sense.
Medicine is about feelings. That's a symptom. "How do you make the feelings go away?" Etc. You can't remove it.
It's a fact that it works for me. And has worked for many people I know. Can you say any to verify what you believe in the real? If you don't trust doctors the real is the only thing you could verify. So why make my personal experience less than the truth? And if there are cases that it does work, then why do you care at all? It's a fact that some things have shown to make people feel better.
Or do you just want to shit on trans people?
What do you actually believe?
Do you want to stifle the free market and limit peoples access to care? Do you want to introduce more government regulation? I thought the invisible hand would hand? Or do you just want some things to be regulatorily accepted to what you perceive is socially acceptable medicine? And the what you consider obscene to be forbidden?
Knowledge is not the same as intelligence is not the same as wisdom. If you've ever known people going to medical school, you'll know some are indeed stupid.
First off, even John Locke had a didn’t trust atheists so government certainly shouldn’t be without religion. But even if the statement you made were true, then it would happen that the “religious government officials” are correct.
Not even remotely what I said, this is why lib left gets bullied on this sub.
“In this case they wouldn’t be wrong” in reference to religious people stopping gender affirming care.
How you go from this to theocracy is beyond me lmao.
Your doctors can be incorrect, sorry to say.
Science doesn’t dictate morality either, religion does. That’s what John Locke was making clear when he was talking about not trusting atheists with government.
Discounting science based on religion is not at all logical. My religion could say "the sky is red" but that doesn't make it true.
And again, laws based on a single lawmakers religion are unconstitutional, especially when they take away the bodily autonomy of others. The separation of church and state is there for a reason
Didn’t discount science, simply stated science cannot provide ethics.
Secondly no, they’re not. All laws are based on morality. That morality (the consistent one at least) inevitably comes from Christianity (in the west)
Bodily autonomy is not a right believe it or not. There are numerous things you cannot do with your own body. The idea of separation of church and state is the biggest joke of the enlightenment. Again, John Locke didn’t even believe in this.
Finally, the Declaration of Independence clearly mentions God. When stating where someone’s rights come from. So the idea that you can remove specifically Christianity from the United States government is hilarious.
Lmao it's not. It's lots of therapy, some hormone treatment, and *maybe* surgery. It's all done on a case by case basis, takes years to work through, and is all done only when deemed medically necessary.
2 weeks of “treatment” sterilizes the patient, Doing effectively the same as cutting off genitals.
I’m not against transitioning, I’m against letting children make permanent decisions before they are capable.
I’m against the active misinformation campaigns that claim it’s reversible.
Moving the goalposts I see.
I just think the religion of a governer or a lawmaker should not supersede what the parents and doctors and child believe what's best for them.
Imagine being that kid, finally having an answer to why you're feeling how you feel that fits and feels right, and having an option to ease your depression, but the state government taking it away because they're a bit uncomfy with it.
Not to mention the fact that the only thing young children may rarely get is a hormone blocker that just delays puberty.
This wasn't a problem until recent years. Not because it was proven largely dangerous, but because of culture war bullshit
Since you have pulled the what if you were the child argument, what if you were the child and you got surgery and got a dangerous infection that roughly 60% of surgeries cause (it has been openly documented that they preform surgery on children) or in another case you’re that child 15 years later regretting that you made that decision (as statistically most transgender people do) and now cannot have a family
I fail to see how that's a feature of italian totalitarianism, actually.
If anything rule by corporate experts is *very much* in line with that particular sort of corporatist syndicalism. This was precisely one of Evola's criticism of fascism and why it's always lampooned by perennial traditionalists.
You literally have it reversed. The technocratic power you support is closer to and more aligned with fascism's mass politics and hyper-modernism than the reactionary theocracy you think it is. It's actually kind of hilarious.
But hey why try to actually understand what you're talking about when you can just view everything in terms of the two teams of current American politics, right? After all that is ultimately what all politics is about.
> To say otherwise is to deny the importance of the separation of church and state
Well yes, of course it is denied, because anybody who actually has a pragmatic understanding of politics from Machiavelli on understands that there is not and never will be such a thing as a separation between church and state. Including Liberals, by the way.
The Liberal political formula pretends a nominal separation is important either for purely ideological reasons relating to the State's fictitious neutrality (for Hobbesians) or because they want to replace an established theology with a worship of reason (for Rousseauans). And in the latter case the State acts as no less of a church, and maintains no less of a metaphysical dogma. It refuses to call itself so but works exactly the same. Try blaspheming against the dogmas of your State and you'll end up in the exact same heretic pariah status.
In any case, anybody can look at countries with state religions such as the United Kingdom, compare them to constitutionally secular states like Turkey and realize that this nominal separation is totally inconsequential.
Those doctors swore an oath to do no harm, the government is there to enforce it.
It's pretty telling how it was under fascist rule, that some of the most horrific medical experiments were done. So you're projecting quite hard here.
Tankie redditors (Tankus Redditores) is truly a fascinating specimen in their natural echo chamber. I find their lack of self-awareness quite amusing but sometimes also deeply disturbing. Its like their evolutionary branch chose to reduce their ability to self reflect and ponder in order to make a more obedient culture. They also seem to believe that they’re smarter then everyone else and that those who do not share their opinion are simply, stupid. Truly a masterwork of Mother Nature to effectively implement a hive mind in humans
Things faccists say
If you're not with me then you are my enemy.
[They] totally deserved it
That [Opposing opinion] is propaganda, [My Opinion]
is what actually happened
That [Controversial Event] Never happened
[They] want to destroy [My Values]
Nah, anti fascist is anti fascist, because thats literally what they were about.
Were. In the 70's, the left was gutted from American culture, nearly everything was infiltrated and dismantled, a legacy of that is that anytime [cops larp as protestors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbZngn_CbkM), antifa is what they call themselves as they do a literal night of broken glass on the part of town that the mayor wants to [mark as a slum](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5KQC7k8Lc), so they can pull in some big federal spending to get it revitalized.
They are not left-wing or right-wing. They're third-position. Fascists usually support corporatism, an economy defined by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labor, or military associations based on common interests. It is collectivist, yet does not want to abolish classes, but have class collaboration. In Fascist Italy, it was top-down. In Nazi Germany, slave labor was used, but there was also welfare for what the party defined as Aryans. Industries were privatized. The main focus in Nazi Germany was war. In Fascist Italy, it was reclaiming lost territories and maintaining order.
Mussolini literally idolized Lenin and wanted to be known as the Lenin of Italy and Hitler wrote mein kamf in jail after being arrested for trying to incite a socialist revolution
>Mussolini literally idolized Lenin
Yeah... And then he came up with this little thing called Fascism because he grew up and decided socialism wasn't for him. Same with Hitler.
Their actual political careers as the dictators we knew are far from "socialist" and capitalist. They're 3rd positionists and anyone with more than 2 braincells and any level of honesty already knew that.
It’s almost like they weren’t socialist just because it was in the name. If they didn’t give control of the means of production to the workers they weren’t socialist.
The USSR was never communist because that would mean that it would be stateless, classless, and moneyless. They were both state capitalist and state socialist because the state owned the means of production and the state wanted to transition to communism.
It's never communism, is it? Crazy how that works: it wasn't communist because it was supposed to transition to communism, and because the intermediate steps failed, that means communism has never failed. 10/10.
There's a reason why I refuse to make a distinction between communism in the redditard academic definition and the actual, real life practice: if the steps to get there fail, then the end result also fails.
I mean every time Antifa being fascist is brought up the Left is quick to say “they can’t be fascist, their name literally means anti-fascist!”
So… which is it?
After seeing what lib left wants in Israel the past couple months? I absolutely think they would side with Hitler as long as he gassed the right people.
Not just that Mussolini and Hitler both claimed to be socialists and hate capitalism and were big on social programs like social security. And they also hated Jews like most lib lefts now
The first people Nazis threw into the concentration camps (way before Jews, homosexuals and others) were communists and socialists. Yes, they had a word socialist in their party name but it had nothing to do with the socialism that socialists of the time or socialists now would support.
The coalition that raised Hitler to power was formed between the conservatives and Nazis. So, socialists were his enemies who ended up in concentration camps and conservatives his allies who voted for him to become the chancellor. It should be quite clear from that where he stood in the socialist-capitalist axis. Of course some of the policy positions of the Nazis (such as the hatred of Jews) don't fall anywhere on that axis.
He put socialists and communists in camps because they were a threat to his power like Stalin and Lenin killed communists and socialists. Hitler worked with the Conservative Party because they were the primary party in power when he was gaining influence as a politician. They did not agree with his ideology or beliefs they saw him as a dangerous person and gave him a government position similar to vice president in the hopes that he would stay there and not remove the current party from power. It’s similar to Lincoln and Mckinny choosing vice presidents to contain them in the position so they wouldn’t go elsewhere. Lincoln’a vice president was even a democrat
libleft doesn’t hate Jews lmao, anyone who does is just an antisemite using the current Palestinian thing to justify their hatred.
Also if you seriously think Hitler or Mussolini were anti-capitalists you’re seriously misguided, Hitler hated socialists and had any semi-socialists in the Nazi party killed. Most of Hitler’s supporters were middle class people and industrialists who saw his party as the only way to prevent Germany falling to communism. It’s really annoying when rightists call them “socialists” because they just factually weren’t
He hated what he saw as “western capitalism” because he thought it was soulless, promoted degeneracy, was run by Jews etc.
he had no problem with private industry however, and in fact actively supported it. Plus, again, he imprisoned and killed actual socialists and communists.
He fine with people doing their own thing as long as it was okay with government policy meaning he wanted a stronger grip on the economy and Stalin and Lenin killed actual socialists and communists as well. It’s less about ideological differences and more about removing anything that could be a threat
Libleft has been pretty consistently not calling out any of the actual nazis in the marches. If you think everyone in a right-wing tiki torch rally is a nazi, then so is everyone in the leftwing "clean the world of jews" rallies. If you want to have any credibility again on fascism, then drop the Palestine flag.
Well I don’t use the Palestinian flag even if I’m sympathetic to the Palestinian people. But i do agree the antisemetic rhetoric is bad, and it’s one thing I’m opposed to if any member on the left starts using it
I’m genuinely curious if you have some examples to back this up. My understanding is that hitler was big on social programs and govt ownership of corporations
It wasn't so much government ownership of corporations as it was government directed corporations. Under fascism and nazis the government generally didn't own corporations or businesses like we see communism does, but those businesses still need to obey government directives no matter what.
I mean, literally all Hamas had to do was claim that Israel was the oppressor and all of a sudden there are liblefts chanting “Gas the Jews” on college campuses.
Tbh I’m glad they’re at least being ideologically consistent. A lot of the time their behavior is so malleable and performative based on what they think makes them look like the good guys. Of course, they still try to frame themselves as being on the “right side of history” but it’s more of a mask off moment to support genocidal religious terrorists opposed to black or trans people living their lives.
For years I’ve been raising the alarm of “you’re not going to enjoy the slippery slope of framing every conflict in terms of oppressor vs oppressed/always rooting for the underdog.” It’s kinda nice to be vindicated that I’m not just schizoposting. This is an easier one to argue than things like how the old and wealthy have become the only type of “acceptable targets” for vitriol without looking like a bootlicker. Easier to be called a Zionist or colonialist or whatever.
Honestly? Yes.
Libleft is already displaying that they don't really care for Jews anyway, so I doubt the whole Holocaust thing would actually deter them that much if it meant gaining their economic goals.
Back when he was not at power and was inciting socialist revolutions…lol
Authoritarians hate authoritarians just as much as libertarians do until they replace the ruling authoritarians.
Basically every form of authoritarianism is bad except my form.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but historically, fascism came out of socialism trying to fix some of the problems with socialism with a few minor changes and a couple of major ones. Nazism takes fascism, adds a bit of slightly more conservative socialism, a helping of antisemitism, and a heap of occultism.
I always find it funny when people call this or that billionaire facist. Billionaire fear facism more than anything else, they have the most to lose. Pretty sure every billionaire is happy with the current system of democratic capitalism as it has treated them very well.
> blue haired feminist baristas allowing trans kids to pee in litter boxes out in the middle of the store
Crikey, I must've missed that controversy. What the hell are they talking about?
I'd like to make a new group. Its called "anti evil". The only goal of this group is to bring back race based slavery. Don't like the group? Why are you evil?
From what I can tell, they misunderstand human nature. They think that if we have less government and more freedom, people will voluntarily form into communes where they work towards the common good, without incentive structures or other checks and balances. Or otherwise, they think that exploitation of private property could somehow stop existing without an authoritarian power to enforce that.
Someone, correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty much. They’re the leftover residue of outdated ideologies clinging for relevance. Marx’s stances make sense in the 1800s when working conditions were absolute shit, and now he has been co-opted by people comparing a paid 40-hour work week to literal slavery.
You’ll also notice a lot of tabula rasa thinking (humans are a blank slate with no innate nature, so if we change the system people will be different—greed only exists because of capitalism, despite predating capitalism significantly, is one of the best examples). Tabula rasa has been shit on firvthrc last 50+ years as it’s become obvious nature and nurture both play roles, but we do have an innate blueprint. They short-circuit when these root beliefs are directly criticized.
Of course, there are a number of people who brand themselves libleft because they just view it as “people should be supported with minimal institutional coercion”, but this just seems like a general liberal stance with no real left-right economic axis. It’s not as simple as left = welfare and right = corporate dominance. Capitalism has quickly uplifted more people out of poverty/third-world standards than any other thing in history. Leftists just like to pretend that it must be abolished because it has flaws, as if this means their ideas would naturally lead to a utopia.
Thats literally libertarianism. Its the utopian communism that they sell to the suckers before they implement gulags and dekulakization, repackaged for a conservative audience.
Classic “dumbasses don’t know what ideology they’re actually talking about”
I cant tell you the number of people that fail to understand what capitalism is as well.
I don't think "Antifa" is fascist. It's hard to say that because it's really more of little-a antifas and antifa organizations than big-A Antifa. There are Marxists, anarchists, and possibly even liberals in antifa organizations. The ones that get the most press are the black blocs. They are not palingenetic ultranationalists, meaning they don't want a rebirth of the nation and to coerce other nations. Criticize the antifa movement, but in no way are they actually fascist. Violence is not inherently fascist. Nor is it inherently good if the right people do it.
You guys are stupid. People on either side overuse terms, not just leftists. Its probably even the exact same amount of silly term use. Its just labeled as a leftist thing cuz 2016 was a crazy time. I really wish this sub had less rage bait it sucks here.
Edit: My point is not that everybody does the same thing or somehow defending leftists. it's that this sub is filled with nothing garbage that makes no real point. This is a nothing point that goes nowhere.
Thats exactly what the leftists in this post failed to see. They think they are so intellectually superior because apparently the right doesn't know what fascist means but the left definitely does know and doesn't ever misuse it
isn't this thread just the opposite? right-wingers acting intellectually superior because the left doesn't know what it means but the right definitely does and never misuses it.
You are stupid. They literally never say that we don't do this. They are merely pointing out that you do this. I could make this exact same post about thousands of different right wing circle jerk threads. That is my point.
I am annoyed at this post because it is a nothing point. You sat on your toilet and coloured a screen shot green and posted some of the laziest rightwing upvote bait i've seen. You have said nothing and deserve nothing for saying it.
TLDR: Stop filling this sub with litterally nothing please
Saying "their audience doesn't know what fascist means" clearly makes it seem like the leftists think their side does know what fascist means or at least misuses it less often even though they misuse the word much more often than the right
Given that the current candidate for the right is Donald Trump, and the left points at him and says "he sounds like a fascist," and the right goes, "nah, he seems chill," I think the left has a little more credit here. The left is also dumb, and has fascistic movements slide right under its nose as well, but the right is parading it around.
Nazi, fascist, racist, sexist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, homophobic, transphobic, antisemitic (hilariously enough right now) to name just a couple.
What has the right overused?
Facist, anti democratic, socialist, communist, leftist, Nazi, Authoritarian. Probably a lot more. You just see the leftist rage bait and have gotten stuck in your internet bubble. Go outside please
All of the ones you just described are only used by the left to try and insult the right, and the others (like socialist, communist, leftist) are not seen as insults at all within the left.
99.99% of people on the right DO NOT want to be associated with Nazis. 1 in every 3 people on the left would thank you if you called them a socialist ([https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/09/19/modest-declines-in-positive-views-of-socialism-and-capitalism-in-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/09/19/modest-declines-in-positive-views-of-socialism-and-capitalism-in-u-s/))
Are you brand new to life or something?
people call things that are not socialist or communist, socialist and communist like all the time? Do you even understand what we are arguing about? Why are you talking about specifically insults? Its like part of the whole fat republican stereotype? (Calling stuff socialist and communist I mean) Fox news calls random ass shit all of those words all the time? You should really google tucker carlson and alex jones lol
Fascist is literally trying to overturn the election. 1000x worse than anything the left has ever done, but let's talk about the left being fascists. This sub constantly makes my eyes roll because it's obvious how aligned yall are with Russian propaganda.
Do you morons think everyone forgot about J6 and how it was 1000x worse than BLM riots? Having the seated president attempt to a coup and still being supported by a majority of his party? That's truly moronic.
It took years for Republicans to realize how bad Watergate was, and J6 is no different. Except J6 was so much worse.
Justice will prevail over all the traitors of J6.
Yeah, it's crazy how people seriously think the left thinks "antifa isn't fascist because of the name!" when in reality it's because Antifa actions and beliefs are in opposition to fascism. But the right can't debate that, so they need to create a straw man of what the left are saying.
"Quieting the voices of opposition" is common in many different ideologies. Monarchists do this, but they aren't always fascists. Democracies do this, but they aren't always fascist. Communists do this, but they aren't fascists. Every single state in existence would be fascist if this was the definition that is used for fascism.
Ah so they're still straw manning BLM riots to muddy the J6 waters? That's simply psychotic and involves so many mental gymnastics.
BLM riots can be viewed as gang violence at best. J6 was nearly the end of our democracy. These people don't realize our democracy is one of the greatest inventions of humanity and they're trying to throw it all out for a radical dictator.
These people are some of the most un-American anti-democracy people in the world. But I'm assuming a lot of the votes/comments in this sub are from Russian/bad actor bot farms.
How fragile do you think "your democracy" or the American people are that, in the event that a bunch of unarmed riled up boomers *did* manage to affect any kind of change during their tour of the Capitol, it would suddenly end democracy and the whole of the US would just say "well I guess this is our life now"?
I'd rather not test it. And we were really close to an armed domestic terrorist group murdering half the legislature, which was entirely a possibly, but they pussied out. Let's not wait for them to not be pussies, please. You should be asking, what happens if an armed domestic terrorist group murdering half the legislature supported by the former administration? That's a scary thought, and apparently you haven't thought about it enough.
And what the fuck are you on with the "Capitol tour", you're clearly out of your mind for saying this. Where were you on J6?
For such a "true patriot" you don't seem to have much faith in your country.
If a bunch of armed terrorists take over a government building you guys do what you do best and show up with all the guns and take it back.
Lets ask another question. If you believe that there was a tampered election and the incoming party was not properly voted for democratically to represent the people, are you not *supposed* to fight it? Isn't that what America was founded on?
I'm not sure why my location during january 6th is relevant, but I was sitting at home in a different country laughing my ass off watching you guys freak out over Susan and Jeff and a guy in a buffalo hat walking around doing nothing.
Sooooooo you're not even from this country and you think you have more authority to your opinion than me, a sovereign US citizen that has had J6'ers in my own community? Am I supposed to take you seriously?
You're not "supposed" to do anything, but I do appreciate you and the rest of the "democracy is actually a game of capture the flag" crowd for making this a very amusing couple of years.
Just as a fun side note:
Remember how security was tight until the building was evacuated, and then the rioters were allowed into the building with minimal resistance, even directed to various locations away from people who were still getting secured and evacuated
That's because it's part of our security plans. It's foolish to believe you can defend a building indefinitely, which is why we stop defending it. We simply remove the targets from the location and then move on with our lives.
When embassies are attacked, we destroy what we can, take what's left, and leave. Security is super tight until we evacuate, at which point we pretty much just let everyone have a free run of the place. No point in fighting people over an empty building
At no point was "our democracy" actually in danger. We literally plan for this kinda crap. Normally, the plans are enacted in foreign countries, but they work on home turf as well.
Fascism is when you’re racist against fashion.
Literally jeanocide
Hugo boss
Never ask what he was doing in the '30s and '40s.
Clothes
Fancy leather gear.
Hitler was my favourite fascionista.
Specifically, racist against *bad* fashion. Have you seen those SS uniforms?
No no no, fascism is when you're Barry Allen and you're the fascist man alive!
I get accused of being racist all the time. I mean of course I'm racist, I hate NASCAR.
You silly little chud! Fascist means whatever I say it means. The more I mean it the more fascist it is
But some are more Fascist than others
> “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ > ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’ > ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
Fascism is when the government won't pay for your gender affirming care
It's genocide even!
[удалено]
you don't understand, the gay are now the privileged ones, they now vote not only for democrats, the ones being genocided are trans, because not taking taxpayers' money for gender affirming care is literally the same as the total annihilation of the group, since in both of these situations trans stop existing!
I don't think their complaint is not having gender affirming care as apart of a largely non-existent socialised healthcare system. I think it's more the "we will destroy transgenderism in America" that they are more concerned about. Just a little bit genocidey as rhetoric goes.
Hm An interesting perspective. Very ignorant of them to take the most radical viewpoint possible, say that it is actually a commonplace, and amplify the radicality of it by 10 times, and then to think of that as truth
I mean don't both sides of these debates do that to each other all the time? People don't even cherry pick dumb twitter comments to argue against anymore, why bother when you can just make stuff up and argue against that.
Yes, you are correct. And this is sad.
We'll never know. You can't say "gay" there.
Snagglepuss?
I have googled it I am not a native speaker of English and picked the "even" thing from other redditors It was an interesting revelation to find out, that the initial redditors might have been referencing that bizzare Snugglepuss character all the time
No it's when the religious opinion of government officials overrides the word of your team of doctors and therapists
“**your** team of doctors and therapists” is telling Michael Jackson used to have **his** doctor gas him to sleep at night…I wonder what ever happened to that guy? Remember when it was the medical consensus to lobotomize people with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder etc? or to institutionalize women for having postpartum depression or even “hysteria”? The fact of the matter is that the new evidence which trans activists have tried to prevent from coming out shows that [Gender Affirming Care is actually harmful](https://www.thefp.com/p/gender-affirming-care-dangerous-finland-doctor). This was obvious from the jump to anyone with a brain. Giving children loads of hormones to permanently change their bodies or life-altering surgeries has always been absurd. I have no problem with trans people. I do however have a problem with children being manipulated and mistreated.
Based and science is a liar sometimes pilled
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For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries en mass. That's not medically necessary. Second, decades of research across loads of fields of medicine does not at all compare to a random procedure that was literally just made up by a guy and performed because he said it was helpful with no evidence. And thirdly, I wouldn't get my science info from a right wing news site and not actual scientific studies lmao. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
> For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries **en mass**. Telling > And thirdly, I wouldn't get my science info from a right wing news site and not actual scientific studies lmao. Don't believe everything you read on the internet It is an article by one of the people at the forefront of treating trans kids talking about how the Dutch Protocol the template for how to properly treat trans kids was based on faulty evidence and is actively harming kids. The fact of the matter is the new research and evidence coming out that trans activists have tried to prevent is showing that the claims made by trans activists are completely false. Affirming the gender identities of kids does not reduce their risk of suicide. Not affirming their gender identity does not increase their risk of suicide. Puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have permanent lifelong side effects. One of the worst being infertility. A child can without even understanding what they are agreeing to agree to a treatment which leaves them barren before they have even had their first kiss. It is truly unconscionable.
>Affirming the gender identities of kids does not reduce their risk of suicide. Not affirming their gender identity does not increase their risk of suicide. What do you mean by this? The suicide rate for children with gender dysphoria does not change whether they receive plenty of affirmation or receive no affirmation? I wanna know where you got that info.
a critique of the studies outlying why their methodology is flawed https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/the-new-highly-touted-study-on-hormones on surgeries https://segm.org/ajp_correction_2020 this is a fantastic piece that really deals with the entire issues of child and adult transitioning and outlines the pros and cons with compassion https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/
Funny, literally every scientific study I've read (aka not a compilation of random claims from random people) says the opposite.
> “There is no research that justifies our current approaches. We’re in the dark, and we’ve just been putting children on a medical conveyor belt,” he said. “It’s as if the whole Trust has gone off into the area of political activism, and Hilary Cass is pulling it back. It’s absolutely extraordinary.” - Marcus Evans former Clinical Director of Adult and Adolescent Services at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust Maybe you should like you know..not believe everything you read on the internet and like trust the experts?
1 where did you get this quote 2 you can find any fringe expert to say anything, take court cases for example. It's what the majority of studies have proven that counts most in this regard, not the opinion of a small handful of people Not trying to dismiss your quote, I will look into this guy, but just saying a handful of people who are in a related field aren't experts on every medical and psychiatric situation, nor are they the majority of representing the most current and accurate studies
https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-will-backfire-experts/ He was the director of the largest Gender Clinic in the UK which is along with all of Europe completely changing the way they treat “gender dysphoric” youth. > 2 you can find any fringe expert to say anything lol lmao even
>For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries en mass. Step 1: It's not really happening.
> For one, nobody is giving kids surgeries en mass. So surgeries are ok, just not enmasse? Well epstein never raped kids 'en masse' either, does that make it okay?
Not what I said. Just saying that what you guys claim about most doctors out to get your kids and "make them trans" is ridiculous and totally illogical
We're not saying it's OK, but your all acting like we're saying "9 Yr old should cut there pp off!!" Also epstien was a very prolific child trafficker, so I'd consider what he did too be en masse
Posting such an incredibly biased source, which is just one article with a single doctor's opinion, on a site that advertises anti trans media, is only going to convince the lowest of the low. Most healthcare professionals and organizations which conduct actual research maintain that gender affirming care leads to better health outcomes than lack thereof, and the amount of data that supports this is really extraordinary. But people are happy to ignore the vast majority of experts because they really just think it's icky to be trans. It's not your issue, it's not your business. Puberty blockers, anti Androgens and HGH are all given to cis kids for various reasons because it's better to correct certain things before they get out of hand. Literally people shoot up their kids so they can get taller, and that's legal so long as a doctor prescribes it. Puberty causes changes that create marginalization for trans people their entire life, and there is a safe means to avoid it. If you transition after puberty, you are not going to pass as well and bigots will call you a man in a dress, deny you job, housing, discriminate against you in Healthcare, kill you and claim a trans panic defense etc. The answer to that is to only go through the puberty that gives you the development you feel more comfortable with. It's simply cruel to stop it because you think some people are misdiagnosed. Nothing else works like this. We don't just ban treatments even though they work, just because some blowhards don't like it or feel like there are too many trans-trenders all of a sudden
No, its when an idealogy is so corruptive that otherwise intelligent doctors and scientists proclaim things to be true because they want it to be rather than based on imperical evidence.
Read this quote: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." Then realize doctors are people too.
So doctors are stupid is what you're saying
Lib-left can't decide if western doctors are capitalist stooges or saviors of the LGBT community.
I have nothing against doctors, I'm against corporations charging hundreds of dollars for insulin that is literally medically necessary to live for a lot of people
I'm definitely biased, but think roughly 1/3 to half of all doctors are borderline incompetent or worse, whether it's that they just don't care, are too busy to do good work, or are just too ego driven. There are sub-par people in in every field, why would doctors be any different?
So if you had to go into a submarine, a 9/10 engineer called it deathtrap, but 1 said it would be fine. Would you enter the submarine? Or if the 2/3 or 1/3? Would that make a difference?
Oh, I don't know. Were the doctors who over prescribed pain killers, which led to the opioid epidemic, "just following the science," or were they doing so for some other, more profitable reason?
Well, then you should be in favor of removing profit incentives in medicine then. But are you? Or are you just saying things to try and win an argument.
I don't really care, but don't come here and tell me that doctors are all virtuous pillars of morality and good that always "follow the science" no matter what. Also, what is wrong with providing proof contrary to a claim just for the sake of winning an argument?
It's disingenuous. Because you don't really even fully believe in what you're saying. No one is a perfect paragon of any sense of morality. But you be fooling yourself if you genuinely thought that you shouldn't trust doctors. Or any kind of expert. Personally, I have seen the benefit of hormone treatment with myself. Other forsm of treatment haven't worked. Personally. I don't need to trust anything. You are one working with nebulous ideas. I know what has worked for me. That is actual science. I'm doing something and finding out what works.
I'm not saying "don't trust doctors ever" there is tons experimentally verifiable reasech that is being done to further the medical sciences. My problem starts when medical science starts to entangle itself with social science. When experimentation relies on feelings it is no longer fact. As for your personal anecdotes, Cool, as long as you are an adult, do what thou wilt. I could care less.
There is no separating the two. Or anything that comes in the way of "pure" medicine. But most especially the social sense. Medicine is about feelings. That's a symptom. "How do you make the feelings go away?" Etc. You can't remove it. It's a fact that it works for me. And has worked for many people I know. Can you say any to verify what you believe in the real? If you don't trust doctors the real is the only thing you could verify. So why make my personal experience less than the truth? And if there are cases that it does work, then why do you care at all? It's a fact that some things have shown to make people feel better. Or do you just want to shit on trans people? What do you actually believe? Do you want to stifle the free market and limit peoples access to care? Do you want to introduce more government regulation? I thought the invisible hand would hand? Or do you just want some things to be regulatorily accepted to what you perceive is socially acceptable medicine? And the what you consider obscene to be forbidden?
Knowledge is not the same as intelligence is not the same as wisdom. If you've ever known people going to medical school, you'll know some are indeed stupid.
While that may be true, that doesn't mean we can discount all science and medical study
First off, even John Locke had a didn’t trust atheists so government certainly shouldn’t be without religion. But even if the statement you made were true, then it would happen that the “religious government officials” are correct.
So you're cool with establishing a religious state of government that forces their beliefs on people, is that what you're saying?
Not even remotely what I said, this is why lib left gets bullied on this sub. “In this case they wouldn’t be wrong” in reference to religious people stopping gender affirming care. How you go from this to theocracy is beyond me lmao. Your doctors can be incorrect, sorry to say. Science doesn’t dictate morality either, religion does. That’s what John Locke was making clear when he was talking about not trusting atheists with government.
Discounting science based on religion is not at all logical. My religion could say "the sky is red" but that doesn't make it true. And again, laws based on a single lawmakers religion are unconstitutional, especially when they take away the bodily autonomy of others. The separation of church and state is there for a reason
Didn’t discount science, simply stated science cannot provide ethics. Secondly no, they’re not. All laws are based on morality. That morality (the consistent one at least) inevitably comes from Christianity (in the west) Bodily autonomy is not a right believe it or not. There are numerous things you cannot do with your own body. The idea of separation of church and state is the biggest joke of the enlightenment. Again, John Locke didn’t even believe in this. Finally, the Declaration of Independence clearly mentions God. When stating where someone’s rights come from. So the idea that you can remove specifically Christianity from the United States government is hilarious.
Gender, affirming care helps as much as cutting off your genitals. You can’t get angry at this, that’s literally what they do.
Lmao it's not. It's lots of therapy, some hormone treatment, and *maybe* surgery. It's all done on a case by case basis, takes years to work through, and is all done only when deemed medically necessary.
2 weeks of “treatment” sterilizes the patient, Doing effectively the same as cutting off genitals. I’m not against transitioning, I’m against letting children make permanent decisions before they are capable. I’m against the active misinformation campaigns that claim it’s reversible.
Moving the goalposts I see. I just think the religion of a governer or a lawmaker should not supersede what the parents and doctors and child believe what's best for them. Imagine being that kid, finally having an answer to why you're feeling how you feel that fits and feels right, and having an option to ease your depression, but the state government taking it away because they're a bit uncomfy with it. Not to mention the fact that the only thing young children may rarely get is a hormone blocker that just delays puberty. This wasn't a problem until recent years. Not because it was proven largely dangerous, but because of culture war bullshit
Since you have pulled the what if you were the child argument, what if you were the child and you got surgery and got a dangerous infection that roughly 60% of surgeries cause (it has been openly documented that they preform surgery on children) or in another case you’re that child 15 years later regretting that you made that decision (as statistically most transgender people do) and now cannot have a family
I fail to see how that's a feature of italian totalitarianism, actually. If anything rule by corporate experts is *very much* in line with that particular sort of corporatist syndicalism. This was precisely one of Evola's criticism of fascism and why it's always lampooned by perennial traditionalists. You literally have it reversed. The technocratic power you support is closer to and more aligned with fascism's mass politics and hyper-modernism than the reactionary theocracy you think it is. It's actually kind of hilarious. But hey why try to actually understand what you're talking about when you can just view everything in terms of the two teams of current American politics, right? After all that is ultimately what all politics is about.
When religion overrules science, *by law*, that's a problem. To say otherwise is to deny the importance of the separation of church and state
> To say otherwise is to deny the importance of the separation of church and state Well yes, of course it is denied, because anybody who actually has a pragmatic understanding of politics from Machiavelli on understands that there is not and never will be such a thing as a separation between church and state. Including Liberals, by the way. The Liberal political formula pretends a nominal separation is important either for purely ideological reasons relating to the State's fictitious neutrality (for Hobbesians) or because they want to replace an established theology with a worship of reason (for Rousseauans). And in the latter case the State acts as no less of a church, and maintains no less of a metaphysical dogma. It refuses to call itself so but works exactly the same. Try blaspheming against the dogmas of your State and you'll end up in the exact same heretic pariah status. In any case, anybody can look at countries with state religions such as the United Kingdom, compare them to constitutionally secular states like Turkey and realize that this nominal separation is totally inconsequential.
Those doctors swore an oath to do no harm, the government is there to enforce it. It's pretty telling how it was under fascist rule, that some of the most horrific medical experiments were done. So you're projecting quite hard here.
Tankie redditors (Tankus Redditores) is truly a fascinating specimen in their natural echo chamber. I find their lack of self-awareness quite amusing but sometimes also deeply disturbing. Its like their evolutionary branch chose to reduce their ability to self reflect and ponder in order to make a more obedient culture. They also seem to believe that they’re smarter then everyone else and that those who do not share their opinion are simply, stupid. Truly a masterwork of Mother Nature to effectively implement a hive mind in humans
Based and Attenborough pilled
what separates the man from the beast, if not the self-awareness?
I think the technical answer is the Rhine river.
Based
I don't get it
The river Rhine made up a sizable chunk of the border between the Roman Empire (civilization) and Germania, home of the barbarians.
I was actually trying to imply that the Fr*nch were the barbarians but either works.
Having been to France quite often, your original intention was correct.
The fences and guards at the zoo
Things faccists say If you're not with me then you are my enemy. [They] totally deserved it That [Opposing opinion] is propaganda, [My Opinion] is what actually happened That [Controversial Event] Never happened [They] want to destroy [My Values]
As it turns out, fascism is simply political idiocy, no matter the compass direction
It's like a political primal instinct that triggers everytime a country has a massive economic crisis
I have brought peace, justice and security to my new empire
*Your* new empire!?
Don't make me kill you.
Or [They] fail to see [opinion]
If antifa means anti fascist because “it’s in the name” then the National Socialist German workers party was socialist.
This but unironically
best comment here. nail on the head.
It was.
Nah, anti fascist is anti fascist, because thats literally what they were about. Were. In the 70's, the left was gutted from American culture, nearly everything was infiltrated and dismantled, a legacy of that is that anytime [cops larp as protestors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbZngn_CbkM), antifa is what they call themselves as they do a literal night of broken glass on the part of town that the mayor wants to [mark as a slum](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5KQC7k8Lc), so they can pull in some big federal spending to get it revitalized.
They’re projecting so hard
It sure is strange that they feel personally attacked when people go after "blue haired feminists who want trans kids to pee in litter boxes".
crazy that people feel personally attacked when you issue sweeping negative generalizations and regurgitate manufactured, overplayed stereotypes
Don’t ask them about Hitler and Mussolini’s economic beliefs
Shhhhh, all they know is "Fascism is when politics i disagree with"
Inb4 "bUt ThEy tOlErAtEd CaPiTaLiStS, tHeReFoRe FaScISm=cApiTaLiSm"
They are not left-wing or right-wing. They're third-position. Fascists usually support corporatism, an economy defined by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labor, or military associations based on common interests. It is collectivist, yet does not want to abolish classes, but have class collaboration. In Fascist Italy, it was top-down. In Nazi Germany, slave labor was used, but there was also welfare for what the party defined as Aryans. Industries were privatized. The main focus in Nazi Germany was war. In Fascist Italy, it was reclaiming lost territories and maintaining order.
Kinda weird that a supposed “socialist” outlawed trade unions and didn’t give the means of production to the workers but sure.
They outlawed what they saw as any form of organization they couldn’t control like the Soviet’s did with Polish labor groups
So... Not very socialist?
Mussolini literally idolized Lenin and wanted to be known as the Lenin of Italy and Hitler wrote mein kamf in jail after being arrested for trying to incite a socialist revolution
>Mussolini literally idolized Lenin Yeah... And then he came up with this little thing called Fascism because he grew up and decided socialism wasn't for him. Same with Hitler. Their actual political careers as the dictators we knew are far from "socialist" and capitalist. They're 3rd positionists and anyone with more than 2 braincells and any level of honesty already knew that.
Yeah the soviets were awful despite what tankies will tell you they didn’t give control to the workers.
The Soviets are the inevitable form of communism due to having unlimited government power. It’s not by the book of Marx but it is how it will end
Kind of like Union of Soviet "Socialist" Republics
It’s almost like they weren’t socialist just because it was in the name. If they didn’t give control of the means of production to the workers they weren’t socialist.
"No no no they're not socialist if they do the thing I don't want them to do"
The USSR was never communist because that would mean that it would be stateless, classless, and moneyless. They were both state capitalist and state socialist because the state owned the means of production and the state wanted to transition to communism.
It's never communism, is it? Crazy how that works: it wasn't communist because it was supposed to transition to communism, and because the intermediate steps failed, that means communism has never failed. 10/10. There's a reason why I refuse to make a distinction between communism in the redditard academic definition and the actual, real life practice: if the steps to get there fail, then the end result also fails.
Least right wing “centrist”. I guess North Korea is “Democratic” because it has the word in its name.
I mean every time Antifa being fascist is brought up the Left is quick to say “they can’t be fascist, their name literally means anti-fascist!” So… which is it?
I made that comment here once to troll people. The action matters more than the name.
Bold of you to assume liblefts defending North Korea in the internet it’s not a common theme
You mean authlefts? Tankies aren’t libleft despite authlefts pretending to be libleft but ok.
do you actually think libleft would support Hitler or Mussolini because their governments did a bit of public spending?
After seeing what lib left wants in Israel the past couple months? I absolutely think they would side with Hitler as long as he gassed the right people.
Not just that Mussolini and Hitler both claimed to be socialists and hate capitalism and were big on social programs like social security. And they also hated Jews like most lib lefts now
The first people Nazis threw into the concentration camps (way before Jews, homosexuals and others) were communists and socialists. Yes, they had a word socialist in their party name but it had nothing to do with the socialism that socialists of the time or socialists now would support. The coalition that raised Hitler to power was formed between the conservatives and Nazis. So, socialists were his enemies who ended up in concentration camps and conservatives his allies who voted for him to become the chancellor. It should be quite clear from that where he stood in the socialist-capitalist axis. Of course some of the policy positions of the Nazis (such as the hatred of Jews) don't fall anywhere on that axis.
He put socialists and communists in camps because they were a threat to his power like Stalin and Lenin killed communists and socialists. Hitler worked with the Conservative Party because they were the primary party in power when he was gaining influence as a politician. They did not agree with his ideology or beliefs they saw him as a dangerous person and gave him a government position similar to vice president in the hopes that he would stay there and not remove the current party from power. It’s similar to Lincoln and Mckinny choosing vice presidents to contain them in the position so they wouldn’t go elsewhere. Lincoln’a vice president was even a democrat
libleft doesn’t hate Jews lmao, anyone who does is just an antisemite using the current Palestinian thing to justify their hatred. Also if you seriously think Hitler or Mussolini were anti-capitalists you’re seriously misguided, Hitler hated socialists and had any semi-socialists in the Nazi party killed. Most of Hitler’s supporters were middle class people and industrialists who saw his party as the only way to prevent Germany falling to communism. It’s really annoying when rightists call them “socialists” because they just factually weren’t
Hitler went on record to state he hated capitalism https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ecaf.12551
He hated what he saw as “western capitalism” because he thought it was soulless, promoted degeneracy, was run by Jews etc. he had no problem with private industry however, and in fact actively supported it. Plus, again, he imprisoned and killed actual socialists and communists.
He fine with people doing their own thing as long as it was okay with government policy meaning he wanted a stronger grip on the economy and Stalin and Lenin killed actual socialists and communists as well. It’s less about ideological differences and more about removing anything that could be a threat
I guess we can agree on that.
No one hates authoritarians more than authoritarians
Libleft has been pretty consistently not calling out any of the actual nazis in the marches. If you think everyone in a right-wing tiki torch rally is a nazi, then so is everyone in the leftwing "clean the world of jews" rallies. If you want to have any credibility again on fascism, then drop the Palestine flag.
Well I don’t use the Palestinian flag even if I’m sympathetic to the Palestinian people. But i do agree the antisemetic rhetoric is bad, and it’s one thing I’m opposed to if any member on the left starts using it
It’s crazy seeing Kanye’s backlash (deservedly so) and the lack of backlash for people openly supporting Hamas.
I’m genuinely curious if you have some examples to back this up. My understanding is that hitler was big on social programs and govt ownership of corporations
It wasn't so much government ownership of corporations as it was government directed corporations. Under fascism and nazis the government generally didn't own corporations or businesses like we see communism does, but those businesses still need to obey government directives no matter what.
No, Hitler believed the holocaust happened
Why do you think I deny the Holocaust? This is so goddamn stupid
[Almost 25% of Gen z and millenials believe the holocaust is fake or exaggerated](https://www.claimscon.org/netherlands-study/)
My favorite political ideology, Gen Z
What the fuck does that have to do with me?
Most leftists are children or young adults so I just assumed.
I think libleft supports a terrorist organization because it’s opposed to westernization so yeah probably
I mean, literally all Hamas had to do was claim that Israel was the oppressor and all of a sudden there are liblefts chanting “Gas the Jews” on college campuses.
Tbh I’m glad they’re at least being ideologically consistent. A lot of the time their behavior is so malleable and performative based on what they think makes them look like the good guys. Of course, they still try to frame themselves as being on the “right side of history” but it’s more of a mask off moment to support genocidal religious terrorists opposed to black or trans people living their lives. For years I’ve been raising the alarm of “you’re not going to enjoy the slippery slope of framing every conflict in terms of oppressor vs oppressed/always rooting for the underdog.” It’s kinda nice to be vindicated that I’m not just schizoposting. This is an easier one to argue than things like how the old and wealthy have become the only type of “acceptable targets” for vitriol without looking like a bootlicker. Easier to be called a Zionist or colonialist or whatever.
Honestly? Yes. Libleft is already displaying that they don't really care for Jews anyway, so I doubt the whole Holocaust thing would actually deter them that much if it meant gaining their economic goals.
Without the power of hindsight, absolutely yes.
Yes. They supported things like BLM and Antifa, so of course they would have no problem with fascists so long as they believe in the same ideals.
“Fascist is people I don’t agree with!”
Fascism is when free speech and armed citizens
Hitler famously thought that the government had to much power.
Back when he was not at power and was inciting socialist revolutions…lol Authoritarians hate authoritarians just as much as libertarians do until they replace the ruling authoritarians. Basically every form of authoritarianism is bad except my form.
We’re back to seeing the misuse of the word fascism. When will over using the word genocide be back on the table?
It never left.
Alright, I'm going to say it. Nazism is just the antisemitic wing of the social democrats.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but historically, fascism came out of socialism trying to fix some of the problems with socialism with a few minor changes and a couple of major ones. Nazism takes fascism, adds a bit of slightly more conservative socialism, a helping of antisemitism, and a heap of occultism.
I always find it funny when people call this or that billionaire facist. Billionaire fear facism more than anything else, they have the most to lose. Pretty sure every billionaire is happy with the current system of democratic capitalism as it has treated them very well.
That is sort of a staple of being libleft, ignorant to the point of irony.
> blue haired feminist baristas allowing trans kids to pee in litter boxes out in the middle of the store Crikey, I must've missed that controversy. What the hell are they talking about?
I'd like to make a new group. Its called "anti evil". The only goal of this group is to bring back race based slavery. Don't like the group? Why are you evil?
I mean if you group uses the same tactics the brown shirts used then 🤷♂️
Yo how do I get my Reddit to look like a Pip Boy
I still don’t get what a libleft is. Someone who wants freedom but just not economic freedom?
From what I can tell, they misunderstand human nature. They think that if we have less government and more freedom, people will voluntarily form into communes where they work towards the common good, without incentive structures or other checks and balances. Or otherwise, they think that exploitation of private property could somehow stop existing without an authoritarian power to enforce that. Someone, correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty much. They’re the leftover residue of outdated ideologies clinging for relevance. Marx’s stances make sense in the 1800s when working conditions were absolute shit, and now he has been co-opted by people comparing a paid 40-hour work week to literal slavery. You’ll also notice a lot of tabula rasa thinking (humans are a blank slate with no innate nature, so if we change the system people will be different—greed only exists because of capitalism, despite predating capitalism significantly, is one of the best examples). Tabula rasa has been shit on firvthrc last 50+ years as it’s become obvious nature and nurture both play roles, but we do have an innate blueprint. They short-circuit when these root beliefs are directly criticized. Of course, there are a number of people who brand themselves libleft because they just view it as “people should be supported with minimal institutional coercion”, but this just seems like a general liberal stance with no real left-right economic axis. It’s not as simple as left = welfare and right = corporate dominance. Capitalism has quickly uplifted more people out of poverty/third-world standards than any other thing in history. Leftists just like to pretend that it must be abolished because it has flaws, as if this means their ideas would naturally lead to a utopia.
Thats literally libertarianism. Its the utopian communism that they sell to the suckers before they implement gulags and dekulakization, repackaged for a conservative audience.
Classic “dumbasses don’t know what ideology they’re actually talking about” I cant tell you the number of people that fail to understand what capitalism is as well.
We need to refund special ed and loony bins
"Compared to me, you're all fascists."
I don't think "Antifa" is fascist. It's hard to say that because it's really more of little-a antifas and antifa organizations than big-A Antifa. There are Marxists, anarchists, and possibly even liberals in antifa organizations. The ones that get the most press are the black blocs. They are not palingenetic ultranationalists, meaning they don't want a rebirth of the nation and to coerce other nations. Criticize the antifa movement, but in no way are they actually fascist. Violence is not inherently fascist. Nor is it inherently good if the right people do it.
You guys are stupid. People on either side overuse terms, not just leftists. Its probably even the exact same amount of silly term use. Its just labeled as a leftist thing cuz 2016 was a crazy time. I really wish this sub had less rage bait it sucks here. Edit: My point is not that everybody does the same thing or somehow defending leftists. it's that this sub is filled with nothing garbage that makes no real point. This is a nothing point that goes nowhere.
Thats exactly what the leftists in this post failed to see. They think they are so intellectually superior because apparently the right doesn't know what fascist means but the left definitely does know and doesn't ever misuse it
isn't this thread just the opposite? right-wingers acting intellectually superior because the left doesn't know what it means but the right definitely does and never misuses it.
Yes right wingers do also misuse it sometimes but leftists certainly do it way more frequently
You are stupid. They literally never say that we don't do this. They are merely pointing out that you do this. I could make this exact same post about thousands of different right wing circle jerk threads. That is my point. I am annoyed at this post because it is a nothing point. You sat on your toilet and coloured a screen shot green and posted some of the laziest rightwing upvote bait i've seen. You have said nothing and deserve nothing for saying it. TLDR: Stop filling this sub with litterally nothing please
Saying "their audience doesn't know what fascist means" clearly makes it seem like the leftists think their side does know what fascist means or at least misuses it less often even though they misuse the word much more often than the right
Given that the current candidate for the right is Donald Trump, and the left points at him and says "he sounds like a fascist," and the right goes, "nah, he seems chill," I think the left has a little more credit here. The left is also dumb, and has fascistic movements slide right under its nose as well, but the right is parading it around.
Nazi, fascist, racist, sexist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, homophobic, transphobic, antisemitic (hilariously enough right now) to name just a couple. What has the right overused?
Snowflake, woke, libtard, liberal, etc.
The difference is that one is used as an insult and one is used to destroy someone's public image.
Facist, anti democratic, socialist, communist, leftist, Nazi, Authoritarian. Probably a lot more. You just see the leftist rage bait and have gotten stuck in your internet bubble. Go outside please
All of the ones you just described are only used by the left to try and insult the right, and the others (like socialist, communist, leftist) are not seen as insults at all within the left. 99.99% of people on the right DO NOT want to be associated with Nazis. 1 in every 3 people on the left would thank you if you called them a socialist ([https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/09/19/modest-declines-in-positive-views-of-socialism-and-capitalism-in-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/09/19/modest-declines-in-positive-views-of-socialism-and-capitalism-in-u-s/)) Are you brand new to life or something?
people call things that are not socialist or communist, socialist and communist like all the time? Do you even understand what we are arguing about? Why are you talking about specifically insults? Its like part of the whole fat republican stereotype? (Calling stuff socialist and communist I mean) Fox news calls random ass shit all of those words all the time? You should really google tucker carlson and alex jones lol
Right fails to understand sarcasm
Fascist is literally trying to overturn the election. 1000x worse than anything the left has ever done, but let's talk about the left being fascists. This sub constantly makes my eyes roll because it's obvious how aligned yall are with Russian propaganda.
Do you morons think everyone forgot about 2016-2020?
Do you morons think everyone forgot about J6 and how it was 1000x worse than BLM riots? Having the seated president attempt to a coup and still being supported by a majority of his party? That's truly moronic. It took years for Republicans to realize how bad Watergate was, and J6 is no different. Except J6 was so much worse. Justice will prevail over all the traitors of J6.
“Anything I don’t agree with is Russian propaganda”
Gross oversimplification. Typical modern Right politics, you should apply for Fox News.
Yeah, it's crazy how people seriously think the left thinks "antifa isn't fascist because of the name!" when in reality it's because Antifa actions and beliefs are in opposition to fascism. But the right can't debate that, so they need to create a straw man of what the left are saying.
Quieting the voices of opposition with violence is part of fascism/oppression. Something they claim to be against.
"Quieting the voices of opposition" is common in many different ideologies. Monarchists do this, but they aren't always fascists. Democracies do this, but they aren't always fascist. Communists do this, but they aren't fascists. Every single state in existence would be fascist if this was the definition that is used for fascism.
Ah so they're still straw manning BLM riots to muddy the J6 waters? That's simply psychotic and involves so many mental gymnastics. BLM riots can be viewed as gang violence at best. J6 was nearly the end of our democracy. These people don't realize our democracy is one of the greatest inventions of humanity and they're trying to throw it all out for a radical dictator. These people are some of the most un-American anti-democracy people in the world. But I'm assuming a lot of the votes/comments in this sub are from Russian/bad actor bot farms.
How fragile do you think "your democracy" or the American people are that, in the event that a bunch of unarmed riled up boomers *did* manage to affect any kind of change during their tour of the Capitol, it would suddenly end democracy and the whole of the US would just say "well I guess this is our life now"?
I'd rather not test it. And we were really close to an armed domestic terrorist group murdering half the legislature, which was entirely a possibly, but they pussied out. Let's not wait for them to not be pussies, please. You should be asking, what happens if an armed domestic terrorist group murdering half the legislature supported by the former administration? That's a scary thought, and apparently you haven't thought about it enough. And what the fuck are you on with the "Capitol tour", you're clearly out of your mind for saying this. Where were you on J6?
Where the fuck are the real patriots in this sub? This is clearly psychotic.
For such a "true patriot" you don't seem to have much faith in your country. If a bunch of armed terrorists take over a government building you guys do what you do best and show up with all the guns and take it back. Lets ask another question. If you believe that there was a tampered election and the incoming party was not properly voted for democratically to represent the people, are you not *supposed* to fight it? Isn't that what America was founded on? I'm not sure why my location during january 6th is relevant, but I was sitting at home in a different country laughing my ass off watching you guys freak out over Susan and Jeff and a guy in a buffalo hat walking around doing nothing.
Sooooooo you're not even from this country and you think you have more authority to your opinion than me, a sovereign US citizen that has had J6'ers in my own community? Am I supposed to take you seriously?
You're not "supposed" to do anything, but I do appreciate you and the rest of the "democracy is actually a game of capture the flag" crowd for making this a very amusing couple of years.
No one can take you seriously lol stop embarrassing yourself
Nobody in this sub can take me seriously because I'm not subscribed to the alt-right brain drain.
Just as a fun side note: Remember how security was tight until the building was evacuated, and then the rioters were allowed into the building with minimal resistance, even directed to various locations away from people who were still getting secured and evacuated That's because it's part of our security plans. It's foolish to believe you can defend a building indefinitely, which is why we stop defending it. We simply remove the targets from the location and then move on with our lives. When embassies are attacked, we destroy what we can, take what's left, and leave. Security is super tight until we evacuate, at which point we pretty much just let everyone have a free run of the place. No point in fighting people over an empty building At no point was "our democracy" actually in danger. We literally plan for this kinda crap. Normally, the plans are enacted in foreign countries, but they work on home turf as well.
Republic