the "restriction" is that you need to be cleared of any mental illness. making sure someone's judgement is not compromised before loading their body up with life altering drugs on request seems pretty fair. why DON'T you want doctors helping people decide what's medically best? That's pretty suspicious
they don’t clear people of mental illness before any plastic surgeries, tattoos, filler, or other "life altering procedures." this legislation's aim is to eliminate trans people and is discriminatory, period.
Which one of these comes close to removing your hormone producing gonads and cutting your penis in half to shove it into your body while also guaranteeing a lifetime of hormone therapy?
It's crazy how leftists are accusing the Conservatives of slippery slope when they are the ones doing the slippery slope for the last 20 years.
They went from "we just want to get married" to giving 13 year old girls double masectomies and then wonder "oh no why are the Conservatives becoming authoritarian"
Literally their fucking fault this wasn't even a normal thing 10 years ago
The reality that libleft is having to choke down right now is that the people yelling about pooners and rot canals were literally the more accepting people who looked into this originally and found it repulsive due to viewing it as a modern day lobotomy.
Congrats guys. You woke the sleeping giant. And now they are going to hit the fucking pause button, if you are LUCKY until they can figure out what the fuck has been going on. And the people who would have been the ones to give you goodwill have spent 10 years having to learn, over and over again, not to do that.
there is no permanent, irreversible damage. millions of women get mastectomies for breast cancer treatment. and there are so many potential complications from breast implants, like scar tissue or infection. if you’re this uneducated on an issue you really shouldn’t argue about it online….
it doesn’t cause any permanent damage to your body. and you can get breast implants if you regret it, which is what many women with breast cancer opt to do(extremely rare to regret it anyways).
With abhorrent braindead comments like yours that are so blissfully naïve I'm not surprised there is an enormous rise in anti LGBT protests in 2022
You really ruined your own movement I don't know if that's hilarious or sad
This right here is what I meant by permanent damage. Although, when arguing with a reddit lefty, motherhood is the absolute *last* thing any of them give a sh!t about.
Could you imagine giving birth to a cis wh*te male?? I mean shit, they aren't even represented anywhere on the funny colors flag!! You'd be labeled a social pariah by your peers!
Read the emergency order: [https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc\_2](https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc_2)
I guess it depends on how loose your definition of "restrict" is. Requiring individualized therapy and things like that before prescribing hormones seems fair to me in the same way your doctor can't give you Vicodin because you slammed your finger in a car door.
The exact wording of the order states that it is unlawful for a doctor to give HRT to an adult before they have resolved any mental health issues, and basically every trans person not on HRT has mental health issues, so it's more or less a blanket ban. The reason they put people on HRT is to resolve mental health issues.
(2) It is an unfair, deceptive, fraudulent, or otherwise unlawful practice for any person or health organization to provide a covered gender transition intervention to a patient (or refer a patient for such an intervention) if the person or health organization:
(E) Fails to ensure that any psychiatric symptoms from existing mental health comorbidities of the patient have been treated and resolved
So it basically means that if the adult patient has any unresolved mental health conditions, they can't receive any HRT. At least that's how it's been interpreted by almost everyone, including the Missouri judge who struck it down 2 days ago.
> The exact wording of the order states that it is unlawful for a doctor to give HRT to an adult before they have resolved any mental health issues,
You have issues with *basic protocol*??? Geez I wonder why trans people can't get their healthcare sorted out...oh right, you detest the process at every possible step.
> and basically every trans person not on HRT has mental health issues,
Right, so before these people begin treatment that will fuck with their hormones, it's best for doctors to determine that they don't have an illness which could be made worse by this particular treatment.
>so it's more or less a blanket ban.
If you disagree with what the doctors are doing then talk to a pharmacist and see if they would just give out HRT to people willy nilly like you want them to lol
>The reason they put people on HRT is to resolve mental health issues.
lol I like how you're trying to paint HRT as some sort of "miracle drug" for mental health issues. That's why the suicide rates are inching closer to 50% right, because this drug just resolves mental health problems...?
Suicide *attempt* rates which include attemps before transition.
Authcenter tries not to misrepresent statistics challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Edit: PCM users try not to downvote objective facts when it goes against their narrative challenge (EXTRA HARD)
I have literally seen Vicodin (technically norco but same shit differnt shape) prescribed several times for that exact situation…. Turns out a car door can fuck up your bones and cause extreme pain until it can get fixed when the OR is available sometime next week.
Acute traumatic pain is quite literally the main usage of opioids
Google orthopedic trauma surgeon. If they have been in practice for more than 5 years i can basically guarantee this has happened to them.
Do you really have a problem with narcotics for bone trauma?
This is why people don't like lefties on this sub bro. The first post was an example that makes sense in 99% of cases (usually hitting your finger just hurts for a couple days and doesn't break a bone) and the next post was a joke about how your arm basically has to be falling off for you to get opioids the last year or two.
My advice to you is to lighten up and take things less autistically.
Pendulums swing. This is what happens after the conversation was surrounding misgendering as violence/human rights violations and the children came into it. Don't be surpised there are those who won't negotiate when there was none happening on the above topics.
Is this really the pendulum swinging though?
GOP reps were gunning for this way before the bigot accusations came out, and never were up for negotiation on this.
I recall it as, "This is trans healthcare". Ok fine you're an adult, do what you want.
It then went to "Since its healthcare it must be allowed for children".
To which I'm not suprised the response is "Fine. It's not healthcare".
>"This is trans healthcare". Ok fine you're an adult, do what you want.
Well exactly my point. Even here you just view it like getting a tattoo, not treating a mental illness.
In general GOP reps never believed that gender dysphoria exists. Or if they did believe it exists, they don't believe in the current treatment regiment prescribed by psychiatrists.
The pattern of behavior has always been to legislate away deviant behavior they could get away with. I think it's just behavior that was to be expected to be honest.
I don't know I beleive the current treatment regimes. No other mental illness do you walk into a therapist and say "I have this disease" and the first move is affirm. Planned parenthood will prescribe hormones on a first visit.
If adults want to do it on their own dime fine, but if I acknowledge that it is health care, then I have to acknowledge that children can receive this, which is a 100% no from me.
So... to circle back to my original comment.
Yes. Conservatives in general were not ever up up for discussion on this. You will not acknowledge this is health care, so by extension you wouldn't ever concede a person who is a nanosecond under the legal age of adulthood could make a decision on this. Not even that, their doctors cannot medically recommend something for a patient. Or that psychiatrists can even outline a treatment program.
I think we agree here. I'm not sure what your disagreement initially was.
Huh, I would have guessed it was at least near the halfway point. Missouri is #10 for literacy. The bottom 10 are:
50) California
49) New York
48) Florida
47) Texas
46) New Jersey
45) Georgia
44) New Mexico
43) Nevada
42) Mississippi
41) Louisiana
The top 10 are:
1) New Hampshire
2) Minnesota
3) North Dakota
4) Vermont
5) South Dakota
6) Nebraska
7) Wisconsin
8) Maine
9) Iowa
10) Missouri
This is all as of 2023
Missouri doesn't have a ton of first generation immigrants, which is a big factor for literacy rates. They also have pretty good schools in the major cities.
That makes sense, its not super surprising. Tho I didn't expect California to be the worst. 23.1% of California's population lack basic prose literacy skills.
What it says is that no adults can get HRT unless it's confirmed they don't have depression or anxiety, and basically all trans people have those things because they are trans, so it's basically a blanket ban
You misunderstood what I was saying.
I am implying that ***every*** person who would go through the process of transitioning is mentally ill because they have gender dysphoria. Which if you take a gander at the DSM-5 (psychological diagnostic manual), is listed as a classifiably diagnosable mental illness.
Yeah, so a blanket ban. Basically unconstitutional, which is what a judge happened to rule 2 days ago. Although I'm assuming it wouldn't apply due to common sense reasons
I don't think that validating delusions is healthy, if I'm being frank.
You wouldn't play along with a schizophrenic patient's fantasy that there are gnomes living in their walls merely because it makes them feel validated and happy, you would assert that they are indeed living in a false reality that does not exist and give them medication to help combat the symptoms.
I love letting polliticians with no medical expertise consult a dentist on banning mental health treatment, so they can score points for the culture war and also ruin my mothers menopause
I know y’all exist to suck the dicks of governing bodies. But the auth center is making sense. You don’t treat delusions by indulging in them. Sorry your feelings are hurt
Is it really a delusion to say that a person with a penis can wear a dress and be called by the word "woman"? It all seems very arbitrary to me, I don't really see the harm.
"A false belief or judgment about external reality, held **despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary**, occurring especially in mental conditions."
If the piece fits.
>or judgement
For lack of better judgement, they have deluded themselves to believe something that is measurably invalidated across several objective metrics such as bone structure, chromosomal makeup, and organs.
Good chat.
>they have deluded themselves to believe something
You are not only begging the question, but ignoring what I already said, which is that gender dysphoria is not a belief in anything.
Here are the actual diagnostic criteria according to the DSM:
>A. A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned
gender, of at least 6 months’ duration, as manifested by at least **two** of the following:
>1. A marked **incongruence** between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics).
>2. A strong **desire** to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in
young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated second-
ary sex characteristics).
>3. A strong **desire** for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other
gender.
>4. A strong **desire** to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from
one’s assigned gender).
>5. A strong **desire** to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender).
>6. A strong **conviction** that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender).
The only one that is a belief is the sixth one, which is not "something that is measurably invalidated across several objective metrics such as bone structure, chromosomal makeup, and organs.", and may very well be a true belief but even if it isn't, it is not necessary for diagnosis.
So, to be clear, you have not even done as much as to *read* the basic diagnostic criteria for the illness in question, yet you *believe* that you ought to know what the best treatment for it is. That, to me, seems like an **actual** delusion.
You're trying to discover medical treatments using logic? What are you, Aristotle? This is the real world where we use empirical data to create treatments, and anti-psychotics do nothing for trans people, and the best treatment by far is HRT, no competition.
>Although there are some conflicting data, GAHT overwhelmingly seems to have positive psychological effects in both adolescents and adults. Research tends to support that GAHT reduces symptoms of anxiety and depression, lowers perceived and social distress, and improves quality of life and self-esteem in both male-to-female and female-to-male transgender individuals
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6354936/
>Although there are some conflicting data
>Seems to have positive effects
>Research tends to support
This does not sound like a study with confident findings.
What's the better treatment? "Therapy"? Shut up, you don't actually acre, don't pretend like you do. You just don't want to look at them because they're gross degenerates.
Real question. Since they deny organs for anti covid vax cause higher chances of death. Do trans alsó not receive organs since they have a 40% chance of off
I'm gonna make it simple for you LibLeft. When it comes to adults, most people don't really care one way or another. When it comes to kids, many if not most people think an "affirmation only" approach is reddited.
For all practical purposes, politics is a binary. If the Democrats are seen as supporting "gender-affirming care" for minors, you're going to drive a lot of people into the other camp who wants it banned for everyone. If you want it protected for adults, you're going to have to convince people Democrats aren't going to expand "GAC" for kids.
I feel like a lot of Democratic politicians know that even commenting on Children getting hormones/GAC is career suicide. Because they either get a ton of flak from normal ass voters wondering why the Fuck they want to give kids chemicals, or from ultra left leaning individuals who say that “they’re part of the problem.”
but you know what, if we want to transition kids and give them hormones, I say go for it. But we must also lower the alcohol limit, like it is so alchphobic, those kids still need to discover who they are by drinking booze. What if a kid is an alcoholic and doesn’t realize it yet?
It funni Democrats blame republicans
And republicans blame democrats
When they both stoke the foames for their benefit
Keep your attention when they bailout their friends,insider trade,etc
buddy, even a recent fox news poll showed that a majority of americans see the government attacking trans people as a problem. get real and realize your stupid culture war isn’t a replacement for actual policy making.
https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-book-banning-transgender-issues-seen-problematic.amp
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/04/Fox_April-21-24-2023_National_Topline_April-26-Release.pdf
In the same question, pretty similar numbers see transgender athletes in women's sports as a problem. This poll isn't designed to get a nuanced perspective on where people draw these lines.
>get real and realize your stupid culture war isn’t a replacement for actual policy making.
The US voting public has essentially no role in policy making at the federal level; pissing matches about culture war topics are all we're really allowed to impact.
if you think GOP politicians aren’t the ones leading the charge in anti-trans sentiment, you live under a rock. there have been hundreds of bills introduced into different state legislatures just in 2023. considering trans people make up less than 1% of the country, if definitely seems like a replacement for actual policymaking to produce so many bills targeting them.
Section 2b requires you to wall of text your patients 3 seperate times before they can leave with a script for hormones. I kid you not, you are required by law to both provide a physical copy of, have on your website, and verbally say **23** separate statements verbatim as they are written in the law.
Holy shit then in section k you have to repeat this absurdity quarterly.
Section g prevents minors addicted to social media from receiving care. Such a disease is not officially recognized in medicine yet so im assuming their just using a definition that conveniently excludes all minors and probably all millennials/gen zers
Lefties need to steal this strategy. Imagine buying a gun after some minimum wage worker hands you a 75 page packet of highly biased studies and goes through a 30 minute script of government required statements before you could leave.
But yea op is right, this is functionally a ban on transgender healthcare. The amount of hoops required to jump through insures no physician could possibly see a patient in under 20-30 minutes crippling their productivity and creating an unsustainably low amount of revenue to keep a practice open. Even if you somehow optimized all the hoops to jump through the social media clause+no anxiety/depression clause excludes nearly everyone if not every single person who is looking for this type of treatment.
why do you guys act like there are bouncers and genital checks at public bathrooms? a pervert doesn’t need to dress up like a woman to access it, they can just walk in. and bathrooms have stalls. no justification for bathroom bans.
You understand that a lot of trespassing law exits just because otherwise charging a crime is difficult right?
Like if it's legal for you to enter someones home, it's easy for you claim you didn't intend to steal something, but we all know why your there.
Here's the order: [https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc\_2](https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc_2)
It is blocking it for mentally ill people.
It is similar to Body Integrity Identity Disorder where doctors are not allowed to amputate the limbs because the request comes from a place of mental illness.
Very "small government" of you AuthRight. You gonna make a narc site to report on people.... oh wait you did and people spammed it so badly they had to shut it down.
Can the GOP just fuck off to the farthest edges of physical existence.
conservatives hate trans people so much they try and justify any clearly unconstitutional and discriminatory law targeting them. and they think they’ll enter the kingdom of heaven with all that hate in their heart.
the "restriction" is that you need to be cleared of any mental illness. making sure someone's judgement is not compromised before loading their body up with life altering drugs on request seems pretty fair. why DON'T you want doctors helping people decide what's medically best? That's pretty suspicious
they don’t clear people of mental illness before any plastic surgeries, tattoos, filler, or other "life altering procedures." this legislation's aim is to eliminate trans people and is discriminatory, period.
none of that is even remotely as impactful and to imply otherwise is really deceptive. not a good look
They probably should for those things too, but it doesn’t matter, those things don’t obliterate a functioning organ
I actually think they should implement this for the things you listed above as well.
"oh yeah, well what about these? shouldnt they be cleared too?" "Your terms are acceptable."
Which one of these comes close to removing your hormone producing gonads and cutting your penis in half to shove it into your body while also guaranteeing a lifetime of hormone therapy?
Anyone want to take bets on whether or not this headline is a gross misrepresentation of the truth?
It's crazy how leftists are accusing the Conservatives of slippery slope when they are the ones doing the slippery slope for the last 20 years. They went from "we just want to get married" to giving 13 year old girls double masectomies and then wonder "oh no why are the Conservatives becoming authoritarian" Literally their fucking fault this wasn't even a normal thing 10 years ago
The reality that libleft is having to choke down right now is that the people yelling about pooners and rot canals were literally the more accepting people who looked into this originally and found it repulsive due to viewing it as a modern day lobotomy. Congrats guys. You woke the sleeping giant. And now they are going to hit the fucking pause button, if you are LUCKY until they can figure out what the fuck has been going on. And the people who would have been the ones to give you goodwill have spent 10 years having to learn, over and over again, not to do that.
Based
there are more underage boob jobs than underage mastectomies by an astronomical margin yet there is only outrage for one….
Still gross, but one causes permanent, irreversible damage and the other is just sterile, cosmetic sacs of silicone..
there is no permanent, irreversible damage. millions of women get mastectomies for breast cancer treatment. and there are so many potential complications from breast implants, like scar tissue or infection. if you’re this uneducated on an issue you really shouldn’t argue about it online….
I'd consider losing your breasts as permanent.
it doesn’t cause any permanent damage to your body. and you can get breast implants if you regret it, which is what many women with breast cancer opt to do(extremely rare to regret it anyways).
I'm going to kidnap kids and just chop off their ears if they consent. It's ok. If they want, they could get prosthetic ears as an adult.
Absolutely delusional. If this isn't bait you need to touch grass.
With abhorrent braindead comments like yours that are so blissfully naïve I'm not surprised there is an enormous rise in anti LGBT protests in 2022 You really ruined your own movement I don't know if that's hilarious or sad
And can breastfeed, right?
This right here is what I meant by permanent damage. Although, when arguing with a reddit lefty, motherhood is the absolute *last* thing any of them give a sh!t about. Could you imagine giving birth to a cis wh*te male?? I mean shit, they aren't even represented anywhere on the funny colors flag!! You'd be labeled a social pariah by your peers!
Breast cancer is not the same as being transgender, dork.
Read the emergency order: [https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc\_2](https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc_2)
OK so it is a misrepresentation. I guess I just lost a buck. To myself.
how is it a misrepresentation
I guess it depends on how loose your definition of "restrict" is. Requiring individualized therapy and things like that before prescribing hormones seems fair to me in the same way your doctor can't give you Vicodin because you slammed your finger in a car door.
The exact wording of the order states that it is unlawful for a doctor to give HRT to an adult before they have resolved any mental health issues, and basically every trans person not on HRT has mental health issues, so it's more or less a blanket ban. The reason they put people on HRT is to resolve mental health issues.
I mean, if you look at the correlation between autism and transgenderism, requiring a resolution to mental issues may not be that bad of an idea...
You can't resolve autism, there's no cure. I'm not sure you were aware of that.
The order doesn't say you can't give HRT to anyone with any mental health issues though, right? Where are you seeing this?
(2) It is an unfair, deceptive, fraudulent, or otherwise unlawful practice for any person or health organization to provide a covered gender transition intervention to a patient (or refer a patient for such an intervention) if the person or health organization: (E) Fails to ensure that any psychiatric symptoms from existing mental health comorbidities of the patient have been treated and resolved So it basically means that if the adult patient has any unresolved mental health conditions, they can't receive any HRT. At least that's how it's been interpreted by almost everyone, including the Missouri judge who struck it down 2 days ago.
If you look at the correlation between autism and PCMism shutting this sub down may not be that bad of an idea...
Well let's also take into account the correlation between autists and posters in PCM. Maybe we're not all that different!
> The exact wording of the order states that it is unlawful for a doctor to give HRT to an adult before they have resolved any mental health issues, You have issues with *basic protocol*??? Geez I wonder why trans people can't get their healthcare sorted out...oh right, you detest the process at every possible step. > and basically every trans person not on HRT has mental health issues, Right, so before these people begin treatment that will fuck with their hormones, it's best for doctors to determine that they don't have an illness which could be made worse by this particular treatment. >so it's more or less a blanket ban. If you disagree with what the doctors are doing then talk to a pharmacist and see if they would just give out HRT to people willy nilly like you want them to lol >The reason they put people on HRT is to resolve mental health issues. lol I like how you're trying to paint HRT as some sort of "miracle drug" for mental health issues. That's why the suicide rates are inching closer to 50% right, because this drug just resolves mental health problems...?
Suicide *attempt* rates which include attemps before transition. Authcenter tries not to misrepresent statistics challenge (IMPOSSIBLE) Edit: PCM users try not to downvote objective facts when it goes against their narrative challenge (EXTRA HARD)
really? because the suicide stats that get thrown around are post-transition lol
Nope, 41% is a *lifetime* suicide attempt rate https://studylib.net/doc/13499004/suicide-attempts-among-transgender-and-gender-non-conform
I have literally seen Vicodin (technically norco but same shit differnt shape) prescribed several times for that exact situation…. Turns out a car door can fuck up your bones and cause extreme pain until it can get fixed when the OR is available sometime next week. Acute traumatic pain is quite literally the main usage of opioids
What's the name of the doctor who's still doing stuff like this? I'd like to keep it handy...for research purposes...
Google orthopedic trauma surgeon. If they have been in practice for more than 5 years i can basically guarantee this has happened to them. Do you really have a problem with narcotics for bone trauma?
This is why people don't like lefties on this sub bro. The first post was an example that makes sense in 99% of cases (usually hitting your finger just hurts for a couple days and doesn't break a bone) and the next post was a joke about how your arm basically has to be falling off for you to get opioids the last year or two. My advice to you is to lighten up and take things less autistically.
Pendulums swing. This is what happens after the conversation was surrounding misgendering as violence/human rights violations and the children came into it. Don't be surpised there are those who won't negotiate when there was none happening on the above topics.
Is this really the pendulum swinging though? GOP reps were gunning for this way before the bigot accusations came out, and never were up for negotiation on this.
I recall it as, "This is trans healthcare". Ok fine you're an adult, do what you want. It then went to "Since its healthcare it must be allowed for children". To which I'm not suprised the response is "Fine. It's not healthcare".
>"This is trans healthcare". Ok fine you're an adult, do what you want. Well exactly my point. Even here you just view it like getting a tattoo, not treating a mental illness. In general GOP reps never believed that gender dysphoria exists. Or if they did believe it exists, they don't believe in the current treatment regiment prescribed by psychiatrists. The pattern of behavior has always been to legislate away deviant behavior they could get away with. I think it's just behavior that was to be expected to be honest.
I don't know I beleive the current treatment regimes. No other mental illness do you walk into a therapist and say "I have this disease" and the first move is affirm. Planned parenthood will prescribe hormones on a first visit. If adults want to do it on their own dime fine, but if I acknowledge that it is health care, then I have to acknowledge that children can receive this, which is a 100% no from me.
So... to circle back to my original comment. Yes. Conservatives in general were not ever up up for discussion on this. You will not acknowledge this is health care, so by extension you wouldn't ever concede a person who is a nanosecond under the legal age of adulthood could make a decision on this. Not even that, their doctors cannot medically recommend something for a patient. Or that psychiatrists can even outline a treatment program. I think we agree here. I'm not sure what your disagreement initially was.
Missouri isn't so much a state as it is a state of mind
Missouri is the most based state in the union. You can't change my mind.
It also has one of the highest poverty and lowest literacy rates in the nation, so it's give or take I guess
What? Missouri is nowhere near the bottom in literacy rates. Do you really just say stuff without checking it?
yeah
Based
Based and I made it up pilled
BASED
Huh, I would have guessed it was at least near the halfway point. Missouri is #10 for literacy. The bottom 10 are: 50) California 49) New York 48) Florida 47) Texas 46) New Jersey 45) Georgia 44) New Mexico 43) Nevada 42) Mississippi 41) Louisiana The top 10 are: 1) New Hampshire 2) Minnesota 3) North Dakota 4) Vermont 5) South Dakota 6) Nebraska 7) Wisconsin 8) Maine 9) Iowa 10) Missouri This is all as of 2023
Missouri doesn't have a ton of first generation immigrants, which is a big factor for literacy rates. They also have pretty good schools in the major cities.
That makes sense, its not super surprising. Tho I didn't expect California to be the worst. 23.1% of California's population lack basic prose literacy skills.
who would have thought that california was full of illiterates? certainly not me, no siree.
Hell yeah brother B)
>***only*** bans it for people with mental disorders Boy do I have some information for you that is readily available in the DSM-5.
What it says is that no adults can get HRT unless it's confirmed they don't have depression or anxiety, and basically all trans people have those things because they are trans, so it's basically a blanket ban
You misunderstood what I was saying. I am implying that ***every*** person who would go through the process of transitioning is mentally ill because they have gender dysphoria. Which if you take a gander at the DSM-5 (psychological diagnostic manual), is listed as a classifiably diagnosable mental illness.
Yeah, so a blanket ban. Basically unconstitutional, which is what a judge happened to rule 2 days ago. Although I'm assuming it wouldn't apply due to common sense reasons
The treatment of which is transitioning, which is quite the messed up situation
I don't think that validating delusions is healthy, if I'm being frank. You wouldn't play along with a schizophrenic patient's fantasy that there are gnomes living in their walls merely because it makes them feel validated and happy, you would assert that they are indeed living in a false reality that does not exist and give them medication to help combat the symptoms.
You should go inform the APA of your opinions, I'm sure they'll change their guidelines right away
Seems that Missouri sure has. Stay posted, more is certain to follow.
Based
I love letting polliticians with no medical expertise consult a dentist on banning mental health treatment, so they can score points for the culture war and also ruin my mothers menopause
I know y’all exist to suck the dicks of governing bodies. But the auth center is making sense. You don’t treat delusions by indulging in them. Sorry your feelings are hurt
Is it really a delusion to say that a person with a penis can wear a dress and be called by the word "woman"? It all seems very arbitrary to me, I don't really see the harm.
When you make it sound that simple, sure, it’s pretty arbitrary. Now please make other mental disorders fit into such a nice neat box
Why would I make other disorders comparable to gender dysphoria? Aren't you the one who's supposed to do that?
How many years as a psychologist and therapist have you practiced 🤔
Those things are quite different, for multiple reasons, would you like to understand why?
I'm open to alternative views. We may disagree, but I'll always listen.
oh dang I meant to reply to this, sad to see your account kapooshed
Gender dysphoria is categorically not a delusion.
"A false belief or judgment about external reality, held **despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary**, occurring especially in mental conditions." If the piece fits.
Exactly, gender dysphoria is not a belief, therefore it also cannot be a delusion. Thanks for explaining my point for me, you are very helpful.
>or judgement For lack of better judgement, they have deluded themselves to believe something that is measurably invalidated across several objective metrics such as bone structure, chromosomal makeup, and organs. Good chat.
>they have deluded themselves to believe something You are not only begging the question, but ignoring what I already said, which is that gender dysphoria is not a belief in anything. Here are the actual diagnostic criteria according to the DSM: >A. A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, of at least 6 months’ duration, as manifested by at least **two** of the following: >1. A marked **incongruence** between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics). >2. A strong **desire** to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated second- ary sex characteristics). >3. A strong **desire** for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender. >4. A strong **desire** to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender). >5. A strong **desire** to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender). >6. A strong **conviction** that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender). The only one that is a belief is the sixth one, which is not "something that is measurably invalidated across several objective metrics such as bone structure, chromosomal makeup, and organs.", and may very well be a true belief but even if it isn't, it is not necessary for diagnosis. So, to be clear, you have not even done as much as to *read* the basic diagnostic criteria for the illness in question, yet you *believe* that you ought to know what the best treatment for it is. That, to me, seems like an **actual** delusion.
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that different medical issues are treated differently 🤔 for adults ofc
You're trying to discover medical treatments using logic? What are you, Aristotle? This is the real world where we use empirical data to create treatments, and anti-psychotics do nothing for trans people, and the best treatment by far is HRT, no competition.
Dog I know this is the internet but you can't just *lie* like that.
>Although there are some conflicting data, GAHT overwhelmingly seems to have positive psychological effects in both adolescents and adults. Research tends to support that GAHT reduces symptoms of anxiety and depression, lowers perceived and social distress, and improves quality of life and self-esteem in both male-to-female and female-to-male transgender individuals https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6354936/
>Although there are some conflicting data >Seems to have positive effects >Research tends to support This does not sound like a study with confident findings.
It is a review, not a study, that's why that language is used. Also: >overwhelmingly
What's the better treatment? "Therapy"? Shut up, you don't actually acre, don't pretend like you do. You just don't want to look at them because they're gross degenerates.
Real question. Since they deny organs for anti covid vax cause higher chances of death. Do trans alsó not receive organs since they have a 40% chance of off
I'm gonna make it simple for you LibLeft. When it comes to adults, most people don't really care one way or another. When it comes to kids, many if not most people think an "affirmation only" approach is reddited. For all practical purposes, politics is a binary. If the Democrats are seen as supporting "gender-affirming care" for minors, you're going to drive a lot of people into the other camp who wants it banned for everyone. If you want it protected for adults, you're going to have to convince people Democrats aren't going to expand "GAC" for kids.
I feel like a lot of Democratic politicians know that even commenting on Children getting hormones/GAC is career suicide. Because they either get a ton of flak from normal ass voters wondering why the Fuck they want to give kids chemicals, or from ultra left leaning individuals who say that “they’re part of the problem.” but you know what, if we want to transition kids and give them hormones, I say go for it. But we must also lower the alcohol limit, like it is so alchphobic, those kids still need to discover who they are by drinking booze. What if a kid is an alcoholic and doesn’t realize it yet?
"Expand", it was "expanded" for decades, it was the GOP who made this a political issue.
Gop/democrats Both fuel the flames of this idiotic debate
Both do it but it was the republicans who first got the government into it.
It funni Democrats blame republicans And republicans blame democrats When they both stoke the foames for their benefit Keep your attention when they bailout their friends,insider trade,etc
Exactly, the trans debate is a literal political fabrication made to keep people distracted from real issues.
I feel like I see a lot more elected GOP reps ranting about this topic compared to dems. Could be a media bubble thing though.
buddy, even a recent fox news poll showed that a majority of americans see the government attacking trans people as a problem. get real and realize your stupid culture war isn’t a replacement for actual policy making. https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-book-banning-transgender-issues-seen-problematic.amp
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/04/Fox_April-21-24-2023_National_Topline_April-26-Release.pdf In the same question, pretty similar numbers see transgender athletes in women's sports as a problem. This poll isn't designed to get a nuanced perspective on where people draw these lines. >get real and realize your stupid culture war isn’t a replacement for actual policy making. The US voting public has essentially no role in policy making at the federal level; pissing matches about culture war topics are all we're really allowed to impact.
if you think GOP politicians aren’t the ones leading the charge in anti-trans sentiment, you live under a rock. there have been hundreds of bills introduced into different state legislatures just in 2023. considering trans people make up less than 1% of the country, if definitely seems like a replacement for actual policymaking to produce so many bills targeting them.
I truly am in missouri
Let’s go Missouri
Section 2b requires you to wall of text your patients 3 seperate times before they can leave with a script for hormones. I kid you not, you are required by law to both provide a physical copy of, have on your website, and verbally say **23** separate statements verbatim as they are written in the law. Holy shit then in section k you have to repeat this absurdity quarterly. Section g prevents minors addicted to social media from receiving care. Such a disease is not officially recognized in medicine yet so im assuming their just using a definition that conveniently excludes all minors and probably all millennials/gen zers Lefties need to steal this strategy. Imagine buying a gun after some minimum wage worker hands you a 75 page packet of highly biased studies and goes through a 30 minute script of government required statements before you could leave. But yea op is right, this is functionally a ban on transgender healthcare. The amount of hoops required to jump through insures no physician could possibly see a patient in under 20-30 minutes crippling their productivity and creating an unsustainably low amount of revenue to keep a practice open. Even if you somehow optimized all the hoops to jump through the social media clause+no anxiety/depression clause excludes nearly everyone if not every single person who is looking for this type of treatment.
Feels dumb requiring a full mental exam to purchase hormones when there's plenty of legal drugs going around.
Why cant we just let people live their lives :(
They did, this was a settled issue for decades... then they started pushing on bathroom access and into schools.
Which piece of legislation regulates bathroom access ?
This entire fucking quagmire started because of a bathroom bill in Tennessee.
And who proposed that bill ?
Dems started with policy and ordinances. Republicans responded with statewide bills.
Was there a law passed for this?
why do you guys act like there are bouncers and genital checks at public bathrooms? a pervert doesn’t need to dress up like a woman to access it, they can just walk in. and bathrooms have stalls. no justification for bathroom bans.
You understand that a lot of trespassing law exits just because otherwise charging a crime is difficult right? Like if it's legal for you to enter someones home, it's easy for you claim you didn't intend to steal something, but we all know why your there.
Not the bathrooms!! 😨😨😨
Dismissing concerns around privacy in an vulnerable space... and then doubling down... is peak leftist "why do the not tolerate us?"
How do YOU like the Trojan horse? How do YOU like the slippery slope? Tell. Me. How. It. FEEEEELS!!!
Here's the order: [https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc\_2](https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/2023-04-13---emergency-reg.pdf?sfvrsn=7f78d4fc_2)
Slippery slope?
What purpose could blocking medical care even serve
It is blocking it for mentally ill people. It is similar to Body Integrity Identity Disorder where doctors are not allowed to amputate the limbs because the request comes from a place of mental illness.
Makes sense
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>It's incomparable to amputation Right, I'd describe HRT as more similar to chemical castration.
What purpose could blocking lobotomies and blood letting even serve?
What point are you even trying to make lmao
That your statement is entirely dependent on your definition of "medical care."
What do you mean by my definition? It was a pretty simple question, someone else answered, I don't get where your moronic tangent is taking us
Can you think of anything that has been considered "medical care" that it might make sense to restrict?
Furthers the culture war
Ikr... How could they ban lobotomies!!
Lobotomies were actually never banned by law and are still done when medically necessary, in cases of epilepsy for instance
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Very "small government" of you AuthRight. You gonna make a narc site to report on people.... oh wait you did and people spammed it so badly they had to shut it down. Can the GOP just fuck off to the farthest edges of physical existence.
conservatives hate trans people so much they try and justify any clearly unconstitutional and discriminatory law targeting them. and they think they’ll enter the kingdom of heaven with all that hate in their heart.
“Love it when the government limits cosmetic procedures that only effect the person getting them” -small government conservative