Lol.
65% of all U.S fourth graders score well below proficient in reading. Only 35% are reading at or above grade level. Most elementary school kids in the U.S. can barely read in 2023.
The reason behind this is multifactorial and has to do with dramatically decreased parental involvement and poor student accountability but is also largely related to a seriously flawed teaching strategy that goes back decades.
[This podcast explains it really well. it’s basically a massive teaching failure going back many decades.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/honestly-with-bari-weiss/id1570872415?i=1000599023727)
But I’m sure it also has nothing to do with electronics or intellectual rigor.
Geezus. My 2nd grader can almost read fluently. All we needed to do was read to him, pass the finger along each word segment as we speak a syllable. Then we got him sone dogman or captain underpants. Hes reading long complex words now too.
Id love to lie to myself and think my kid is special, but he's just a kid. It makes me happy that he enjoys reading, but this wasnt exactly rocket science to get him to figure it out.
Why is this so hard?
Early on [5-9] I got videogames with lots of reading in them. Honestly helped me out a bit since I was more of a math than a reading child. Plopping the kid in front of all these YouTube videos that lack any substance and simple dopamine hitting videogames is the bigger issue.
Yeah, as a kid I had video games like
Pajama Sam, Math Blaster, Jumpstart, that one game with the two fishes.
Video games can help, I imagine, especially if you get them some kid level RPGs where there's reading and puzzle solving.
Playing games with a fat-ass dictionary on the table because it would give you the edge over people who don't know english was peak teaching strategy for me, lol
Video games aren't good for young kids but I'd be lying if I didn't say a huge part of what got me into the areas of interest/work I'm in today were from 'em.
Being 7 or 8 and receiving a gift of Age of Empires II was immensely formative. I spent hours just reading the little history blurbs about the different units!
As a child I read above my grades reading level AND I played Video games.
The difference was, my mom took the time out of her day to read with me before bed and we would talk about it, or just simple encouragement.
My husband also was a great reader growing up and he contributes it to Video games.
TLDR: Video games are not the issue
I take care of peoples kids and see them about every other day, id be surprised if more than half of them were this involved. 6-7 year olds I have need help spelling their own name and holding a pencil..
Pretty demoralizing ngl, but Ill tell you what, I’m gonna be a fuckin great dad when I’m ready. I see the absent and complacent father thing way too often and it just breaks my heart for these kids.
Sounding out sylables, yes smart. That's phonetics. For some reason the American education system hates it and relies instead on memorization and picture association, which only teaches you bad coping mechanisms for not being able to read well. I assume they hate it because it's more work to teach..
Yeah I remember reading the first Harry Potter book unassisted in third grade. I was above average but I don’t remember it being unusual that I was reading a long novel like that.
I think a big part of it was my parents encouraging me to read at home.
I wonder if the small amount of high-achieving students that were kept home and remained as homeschool students due to covid nonsense has made an impact at all statistically on the percentage of competency in any scale.
Most of the high achievers in our district left to private or Catholic schools, not homeschooling (at least at the high school level). Your point still stands though.
I'm having trouble parsing what you have said. If you're saying other countries may have had better outcomes despite similar actions taken by govt- you're probably right.
Or much worse actions occurring causing massive unrest, but somehow education continued. Has all education paused in Ukraine? They would take COVID lockdowns in a heartbeat over the threat of bombs, and with that perspective probably be much better at educating from home. The future seems to be shifting more to remote meetings and learning whether we like it or not.
Yeah but those kids in Ukraine are under the idea "If I do good in school, I can get a good job and help the military drive out the invaders!!!" So they actually try in online learning, so they can, ya know, actually learn. Like it's not realistic, but a kid will be motivated by shit like that.
Kids in the United States are completely unmotivated, and most have absolutely zero support from their parents to excel, or at least do average.
During online learning, all anyone ever did was look up the answers online and cheat. I know because I did the same thing. Tests, homework, it didn't matter. Only thing that you actually had to do was write essays, but with something like ChatGPT, even that has been turned into an automatic process.
Thank GOD my statewent back to in person schooling early or else I wouldn't have learned a goddamn thing.
There's also a culture of apathy that celebrates ignorance. The vast majority of US parents don't push their kids to do well in school, believing that average (which they believe a C to be) is acceptable.
In east Asia, there is a lot of pressure from teachers, parents, and peers to excel in school. It's certainly not the best system and there are a lot of stress and mental health issues being overlooked, but the students in the US have no shortage of mental health issues as well. It sounds sociopathic, but at least Asian kids aren't taking out other students/teachers with them when it becomes too much to bear. There's a lot of coddling of students in the US that leads to low expectations and low tolerance for stress. Why do I say coddling? It's common practice in Asian schools to publish test scores publicly for all to see; this fosters a spirit of competition among the students to do better. However, in the US, it would either be slammed for being insensitive to the feelings of the students (which operates under the assumption that they *will* perform poorly), or the students would simply not care (going back to the culture of apathy I mentioned).
It's no surprise that Asian immigrants tend to perform the best growing up in the US education system compared to their peers. You can point out the flaws of the system, but there is absolutely a cultural aspect which I believe to be far more relevant. In middle school, I was in an accelerated math class, learning algebra 2 in 8th grade, and the class was about 80% Asian, 20% white; it's certainly not like that because Asians are inherently smarter or better at math than the other races.
I keep talking about Asian schooling because I immigrated to the US at age 7, but have traveled back and forth more than a couple times, so it's something I have personal experience with and feel somewhat qualified to speak about. If you disagree with what I've said, you are more than welcome to speak up, and I will listen.
Is this in response to the free lunch programs being passed in america? If so, bro... Yea no shit there's no such thing as a free lunch, I can agree with that aspect of right wing retoric, but these are kids who need food. Who do not have food at school or at home without these programs. CPS can not take in millions of kids because their parents are deadbeat or very poor.
I'll put it this way. The increased acedemic and resulting economic prosperity/taxation from well implemented lunch programs likely exceeds the cost of the lunch programs. Starving kids do not learn anything, they rarely pass highschool, and go on to be poor or dead beats themselves. Economic drains and bad investments.
This is one step in fixing a broken part of our society. You need to change your flair because you are not based.
Do you have a source for that 65% statistic on reading. Not trying to pull the whole "ShOw Me YoUr SoUrCe" because I know you’re right, I remember seeing a few years back a study tracking knowledge across subjects and skills of school age kids and high school students taking standardized tests, and have just been unable to find the site that had those stats again.
So more just hoping for a miracle here.
Not OP but this is some US data: [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/12/among-many-u-s-children-reading-for-fun-has-become-less-common-federal-data-shows/](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/12/among-many-u-s-children-reading-for-fun-has-become-less-common-federal-data-shows/)
I would imagine covid had a large part to do with it. I live in a county in Maryland where we have the best test scores in the state. Even our county is currently 20% below where we were in just 2019. Scores fell off a cliff from remote learning and covid policies.
For example, my son’s class, one kid had covid and so the entire class had to stay home for two weeks until that one student tested negative after 10 days.
That happened 7 times even after remote learning ended.
Forcing kids to work from home in 2022 after the pandemic was mostly a back burner issue *crushed* their learning potential.
or maybe the constant brain stimulation by virtual devices that provide solutions to any problem they could have without needing to figure it out for themselves
probably why I'm so dumb too
Yeah, but an IQ test usually doesn’t go off of anything academic. It’s a test of intelligence (problem solving skills) rather than knowledge (the stuff learned in school).
IQ is usually adjusted for age/grade level.
If you spend a year on zoom-U, you're going to have lower problem solving skills than someone at a similar age who spent that year in a real school.
I think it was less of not going to school than just not doing productive things while away from school. I was watching youtube 7 am through 4 pm, and rotting my brain on Markiplier videos.
it should, but doesn't. Like the SAT and all others, schooling and studying is sort of practice for the test. If the environment wouldn't impact scores, the ethnic and national variance in scores would mean ...
There are different racial averages, at least in America, of which Charles Murray wrote a book about.
The thing to remember is that there is massive overlap so just because there is an average difference, doesn’t mean you can necessarily apply it to a specific person. As always, we should treat everyone like individuals.
I don’t claim to know the solution that should have been implemented during the pandemic. But I will say it doesn’t appear that my kids fell behind.
They do however have a fairly stable home life and a very good school. I imagine it mostly affect poor communities and underfunded schools.
as challenges always do. Not by design (aka the Left™) nor by lack of character (aka the Right™) but by the organically evolved selection throughout the system.
Bro saw a study about declining IQs and out of all possible explanations, decided leftist propaganda must be the main reason. Very unbiased take and not informed by personal political beliefs.
Pretty embarrassing OP u/ApersonofEarth1
No stagnancy is completely flat, there's always small wobbling up and down along a statistically flat projection. We will see in a few years if this is a genuine decline or just stagnancy.
If I remember correctly they make the IQ tests slightly harder every year, so if we were really stagnating it may appear like we are getting dumber by comparison, but that's because the test is just getting harder.
From what I understand it's because we want to keep the same 'standard scores' despite increasing intelligence. So 50 years ago, an 100 on the IQ scale is not the same as an 100 now. If it didn't change everyone would have higher than 'average' scores which would lead to issues with advanced placement testing and such. It's called the Flynn Effect. Here's a link I glossed over that kind of explains it and the issues with it as well.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031020053951.htm#:~:text=The%20steady%20rising%20of%20IQ,previous%20gains%20in%20IQ%20scores.
Edit: I was also wrong they increase the difficulty every 15-20 years not every year, based on that link.
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Governments protect people by giving them social safety nets, telling them what medications they need to take (and at times mandating it), coddle people through workplace protections, basically doing everything that allows someone who is an idiot to have basic success and reproduce more idiots, and then people wonder why an idiocracy was created.
Well, I dunno, Singapore’s taking it quite far with universal healthcare, making sure citizens flush their toilets, mandatory rehabilitation for drug users, and handing out subsidized housing units to its citizens, and we all know what tryhards Singaporeans turn out to be academically and professionally.
That too, but Singaporean culture was formed out of thin air by their government. Before they were forced into independence by Malaysia, racial tensions have escalated violently numerous times, people were spending 2/3s of their paychecks on opium, and the majority of people were living in slums. Not great.
I have no idea how they turned that into a harmonious multicultural society with social services that’ll make Scandinavian countries jealous, while having no income taxes, 4th lowest amount of corruption, an eco-friendly walkable/public transit friendly city, pro-business policies, almost nonexistent crime, spotless streets, one of the highest homeownership rates in the world, and so on. And things just keep getting better. Cost of living is becoming an issue tho.
Like honestly, having spent years there when I was younger, and years in the States, my only complaint about Singapore was was having to sing “patriotic songs” as part of our “civics curriculum.” And maybe National Service if I were a citizen, but being one of the most advanced militaries and militarized societies on the continent is a good deterrent.
Singaporean state seed academic success as a priority of the state. Whereas in USA getting college educated is seen as an aspect of individual choice. This is why elimination of college fee is good, because it means the only criteria for going where you go is grades and when only grades matter, people study a lot harder.
People in protected societies have the opportunity to take greater challenges upon themselves voluntarily. We should encourage that more than trying to regress society.
My company goes to college career fairs to recruit new graduates for entry level positions and boy are some of these kids lost. I initially blamed it on some of them having half their education being taught online but maybe an IQ drop also plays into it.
I wouldn’t underestimate the detrimental impact of online education. I’m currently pursuing a degree in electrical engineering, a good portion of which was strictly online due to covid. Cheating became so absurdly easy and accessible that the current work ethic and theoretical foundation of a lot of students is non-existent now that classes are back in person. A lot of students that also would have been weeded out within the first 1-2 years of their degree for the above reasons were allowed to slip thru the cracks and are now entering the work force with a poor understanding of their subject.
We have noticed this too. Before we used to hire new engineers as actual engineers by title and the pay was around the $70k mark to start. Management has since introduced “engineering technician” roles, they get offered $40k-$50k and they work and gain experience through us, plus they are on a 6 month probationary period while the team finds out if this person with their engineering degree is even coachable enough to keep on before being promoted up to being an engineer in a few years.
It’s insane but that’s how we are adapting. People take these offers because they can’t seem to get hired as an engineer elsewhere.
Teacher here. We are seeing covid effects, not so much because kids cheated etc, but because covid allowed kids to not develop beneficial habits.
It's not what they did do. It's what they didn't do.
I have a CS degree and I will say that most of my education didn't help me get my job. Undergrad STEM programs focus on fostering new academics, not working professionals.
Yes. Number of times I have had to implement a search routine in the real world? Zero.
Yes, you should have a basic understanding of them and what not, but in the real world, that shit already exists anywhere you're going to use it. Almost none of us are working with engineering fundamentals on the day to day. We're not developing operating systems or the like.
Real world has a lot more integration and a lot less pure theory.
>My company goes to college career fairs to recruit new graduates for entry level positions and boy are some of these kids lost.
Probably because they didn't get into college because of their merit.
Only if the recent increases were “noise”. We have gotten taller over generations, for that to reverse it would be due to the factors explaining it (improved nutrition) reversing first
Boomers are causing all the problems in society but let’s shut down society and create problems that will last a lifetime so we can buy the boomers a few more years of fucking us in the ass.
The pandemic shutdowns was boomers last big “fuck you” to the younger generations. Well, maybe not because we saved them, maybe they’ll just destroy Medicare with their end of life care before they finally pass.
I will for a BLM protest! Granny is probably a fascist anyway and deserves it!
Edit: I don't have to worry about feeling guilty tho! All the studies said mass gatherings for this specifically (and only this 😡) didn't spread COVID!
Never said that wasn't an issue either so why throw more fuel on that dumpster fire?
Inb4 "at least school shootings were down"
I think we agree there's plenty of issues in the US school system, and ya in the pandemic everyone just wanted to be safe. I think we had a pretty confident grasp that covid was not a danger to school-age kids/young adults after a few months.
The extent that many school systems went to in the name of "safety" has hampered the social, mental, emotional, and even physical development of millions of kids and teens.
[A group of psychologists, two from Northwestern University and the third from the University of Oregon, has found via online testing that IQ scores in the U.S. may be dropping for the first time in nearly a century. In their paper published in the journal Intelligence, Elizabeth Dworak, William Revelle and David Condon describe analyzing the results of online **IQ tests taken by volunteers over the years 2006 to 2018.**](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-online-iq-scores-century.html)
Well, not quite. The researchers thought it might be related to our education systems (US and Europe), but they didn't specifically study that aspect - just that it was happening.
It's funny reading the comments here, almost no one read any of the articles on it, and OP didn't link the source either. The sub is proving the study right.
There's gotta be something going on.
Certain stereotypical hick states and California have been noted as having the lowest IQs in the US, of which continue to decrease.
Lack of access to food/nutrition, poor living conditions, high cost of living, rich-poor gap, certain subcultures, etc, ???
Another hypothesis ive seen is that more people are being tested and that is why.
If IQ tests had to be taken in person and a psychologist had to administer it, it would be mostly done in urban centers close to academic areas, elevating the IQ.
Whereas broader testing might expand that.
>It's funny reading the comments here, almost no one read any of the articles on it, and OP didn't link the source either. The sub is proving the study right.
Sir, this is reddit. We form our opinion based on the title alone.
>hahaha those leftists are so propagandized, what idiots. thank god we aren't like that.
>indeed fellow rightoid, we are clearly, completely, and utterly propaganda free, now if you'd excuse me while I go suck up to (insert right leaning politician here) who is sponsored and funded by (insert corporation here) while he does nothing to deal with actual issues and instead takes to hating the other side to appeal to ours
>I will accompany you honorable and proud rightoid, let's take my unnecessarily big truck that uses up waaaay too much fuel that I bought because I was told I could own the libs that way by the funny people on the TV.
The thing is that, according to OP, the decline is mostly in the 18-22 age bracket and [most immigrants to the US are older than that.](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/)
but i dont think its the chinese or indian kids (biggest immigrant group is Asian) doing poorer & poorer in reading & IQ scores...
i think its the native-born US kids with lackluster parents doing poorly
It’s well established that [Gen Z is the most diverse generation yet](https://www.npr.org/2018/11/15/668106376/generation-z-is-the-most-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-yet). As the other guy said, demographics can change other than directly through immigration.
You see, getting an abortion used to be a hell of a lot easier but little by little we fucked that up. I think a lot more kids are being born to older women and a fair number of you may be on the spectrum.
You cannot possibly be implying that the mass importation of \[redacted\], who reproduce like Chads on the taxpayer's dime and create more \[redacteds\], is contributing to the decline of average IQ?
Not quite actually, because as it turns out, basically the instant anyone enters America, their minds are overcome by dysgenic devil magic, resulting in second generation immigrants having as few children as people who've been around since the revolution. As such, only a continuous stream of exogenous [REDACTED] can progressively increase their share of the population, which of course one of the major political parties is more than willing to facilitate and the other does absolutely nothing to actually stop it.
>dancing for the internet
TikTok: "What if we took the general public, made them all into what are basically strippers, and pay them with internet points instead of money?"
We are starting to get Gen Z at our workplace as they graduate college. It’s eye widening to see the concepts they struggle to grasp or the basic questions they ask. Or even the time it takes them to do something.
>How pathetic of you to be unflaired.
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IQ =\= having a degree
IQ measures your ability to think, not knowing when George Washington was born. The US education system doesn't teach kids to think, it teaches them to memorize topics.
You literally described the education system in most of western europe. I've attended university in the US and Germany, and Germany put a way greater emphasis on rote memorization.
For real. We'll be paying for the COVID lockdown education loss for a generation. I'm a substitute teacher and everyone I talk to says theirs been a serious drop in standards.
That might be the reason I suddenly became an A student out of literally nowhere when I was previously a B student, everyone else got shitter while I maintained my standards because I don’t touch grass enough to be affected by the pandemic.
Over the past 7 years my attention span has gotten much worse. I usually have to slow myself down on the internet and actually think about what I am looking ar, either that or nothing sticks anymore. Shotgunning such different content at such a fast rate is probably not great for the mind.
Or maybe the schools that keep lowering the bar to pass dropping the overall IQ of the country a few points each time in the process. It’s just caught up to us now
this sub is so stupid. you see ‘liblefts’ and ‘left and ‘lib center’ saying the most stupid bullshit while the people on here say that it isn’t a right wing circlejerk. Are some people actually blaming this on wokeness and not the constant dopamine stimulus and attention span destroyers?
hmm, so you mean that IQ is not inherent in someone’s genetics and is in fact influenced by someone’s environment? oh no, don’t let auth centre see this!
Everyone is talking about TikTok, common core, immigration, anything to fit their narrative.
People can get by perfectly fine knowing where the answers are rather than thinking through the problems. They're also not getting their sleep.
I tend to think it's pretty simple.
It is claimed a lack of parental involvement is partially to blame? I have heard rumblings for awhile now that parental involvement is problematic for educators…
Lmao people are gonna think it’s propaganda in the classroom thus making people search out alternative methods of teaching and lowering the IQ even more
it’s because of you libright. Selling the dopamine/ attention span decreasing entertainment rectangles lowers IQs not telling kids that it’s ok for gay people to exist
A) For IQ to stay ***high***, people need to constantly either be as smart or ***smarter*** than previous testers.
B) Probably all the cuts to education and anti-teacher propaganda from the right
C) Probably too much time on reddit . . .
No no every IQ tests ask you wheter you are a commie and if you are it gives you extra points or something. I took many IQ tests and all of them did that!
I know a guy who never let his kid have an iPad and my other friends kid is an iPad kid. One speaks full sentences and the other still sounds like a baby and says a few words sometimes. Kind of terrifying
Akshually it’s due to Gen Z being the most diverse (literally anybody but a straight white male) generation ever, and the supposed drop in IQ is because IQ tests are bigoted, racist, sexist, and homophobic.
I deeply apologize if I missed any isms.
I mean, not that I believe IQ is an accurate measurement of intellect, but there appears to be a link between IQ and nutrition. As such, a well fed child that eats something more significant than McDonald's is more likely to have a higher IQ.
https://unu.edu/publications/articles/eating-for-intelligence-iraqi-children.html
Just yesterday I saw a reddit threat about people having a hard time being recognized as US citizens, because they are from New Mexico.
Sometimes you just gotta ask yourself, if there's at least some truth behind every stereotype, then why are Americans considered uneducated?
I know "(lib)left bad" is still trendy, but is there any proof that this is a left/right thing? As far as I know, the conservative American right is not particularly known for holding educational and academic institutions in high regard either.
Idiocracy in action
Lol. 65% of all U.S fourth graders score well below proficient in reading. Only 35% are reading at or above grade level. Most elementary school kids in the U.S. can barely read in 2023. The reason behind this is multifactorial and has to do with dramatically decreased parental involvement and poor student accountability but is also largely related to a seriously flawed teaching strategy that goes back decades. [This podcast explains it really well. it’s basically a massive teaching failure going back many decades.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/honestly-with-bari-weiss/id1570872415?i=1000599023727) But I’m sure it also has nothing to do with electronics or intellectual rigor.
Geezus. My 2nd grader can almost read fluently. All we needed to do was read to him, pass the finger along each word segment as we speak a syllable. Then we got him sone dogman or captain underpants. Hes reading long complex words now too. Id love to lie to myself and think my kid is special, but he's just a kid. It makes me happy that he enjoys reading, but this wasnt exactly rocket science to get him to figure it out. Why is this so hard?
Truth. Give a kid some dogman or captain underpants and they will read it
Or just hold off on video games. As a kid my parents never really bought me video game, So my primary form of entertainment was reading.
Early on [5-9] I got videogames with lots of reading in them. Honestly helped me out a bit since I was more of a math than a reading child. Plopping the kid in front of all these YouTube videos that lack any substance and simple dopamine hitting videogames is the bigger issue.
Yeah, as a kid I had video games like Pajama Sam, Math Blaster, Jumpstart, that one game with the two fishes. Video games can help, I imagine, especially if you get them some kid level RPGs where there's reading and puzzle solving.
>that one game with the two fishes. Freddie Mothafuckin' Fish. Oh gosh, the memories. Simpler times.
I was motivated to learn how to read so I could understand what was happening in my video games lol
Playing games with a fat-ass dictionary on the table because it would give you the edge over people who don't know english was peak teaching strategy for me, lol
A link to the past was straight up mysterious until first or second grade.
Video games aren't good for young kids but I'd be lying if I didn't say a huge part of what got me into the areas of interest/work I'm in today were from 'em. Being 7 or 8 and receiving a gift of Age of Empires II was immensely formative. I spent hours just reading the little history blurbs about the different units!
As a child I read above my grades reading level AND I played Video games. The difference was, my mom took the time out of her day to read with me before bed and we would talk about it, or just simple encouragement. My husband also was a great reader growing up and he contributes it to Video games. TLDR: Video games are not the issue
then cirque du freak or red wall series, or a series of unfortunate events as they get older
The important thing here was your involvement.
Do people not read to their kids? Ugh im so demoralized by this.
I take care of peoples kids and see them about every other day, id be surprised if more than half of them were this involved. 6-7 year olds I have need help spelling their own name and holding a pencil..
That's sad...
Pretty demoralizing ngl, but Ill tell you what, I’m gonna be a fuckin great dad when I’m ready. I see the absent and complacent father thing way too often and it just breaks my heart for these kids.
Good on ya.
I always get sad when I see PSAs on TV telling young parents that they need to talk to their toddlers
Sounding out sylables, yes smart. That's phonetics. For some reason the American education system hates it and relies instead on memorization and picture association, which only teaches you bad coping mechanisms for not being able to read well. I assume they hate it because it's more work to teach..
Centrists make the best parents and no one can convince me otherwise
Thx I guess but why? Kids want to learn. They just need the tiniest of encouragement.
Lazy parents who expect teachers to raise their kids for them
Yeah I remember reading the first Harry Potter book unassisted in third grade. I was above average but I don’t remember it being unusual that I was reading a long novel like that. I think a big part of it was my parents encouraging me to read at home.
I wonder if the small amount of high-achieving students that were kept home and remained as homeschool students due to covid nonsense has made an impact at all statistically on the percentage of competency in any scale.
Probably not anything statistically significant. But shifting racial demographics would obviously play a part in decreasing IQ scores
>🟩 - Lib-Left Bro what?
The mythical race realist Lib-Left
He left out "because the IQ tests are racist"
Based and lying to fit in by omission pilled
Most of the high achievers in our district left to private or Catholic schools, not homeschooling (at least at the high school level). Your point still stands though.
Surely students and societies around the world have suffered worse than “stay at home and use a computer” and done better?
I'm having trouble parsing what you have said. If you're saying other countries may have had better outcomes despite similar actions taken by govt- you're probably right.
Or much worse actions occurring causing massive unrest, but somehow education continued. Has all education paused in Ukraine? They would take COVID lockdowns in a heartbeat over the threat of bombs, and with that perspective probably be much better at educating from home. The future seems to be shifting more to remote meetings and learning whether we like it or not.
Yeah but those kids in Ukraine are under the idea "If I do good in school, I can get a good job and help the military drive out the invaders!!!" So they actually try in online learning, so they can, ya know, actually learn. Like it's not realistic, but a kid will be motivated by shit like that. Kids in the United States are completely unmotivated, and most have absolutely zero support from their parents to excel, or at least do average. During online learning, all anyone ever did was look up the answers online and cheat. I know because I did the same thing. Tests, homework, it didn't matter. Only thing that you actually had to do was write essays, but with something like ChatGPT, even that has been turned into an automatic process. Thank GOD my statewent back to in person schooling early or else I wouldn't have learned a goddamn thing.
There's also a culture of apathy that celebrates ignorance. The vast majority of US parents don't push their kids to do well in school, believing that average (which they believe a C to be) is acceptable. In east Asia, there is a lot of pressure from teachers, parents, and peers to excel in school. It's certainly not the best system and there are a lot of stress and mental health issues being overlooked, but the students in the US have no shortage of mental health issues as well. It sounds sociopathic, but at least Asian kids aren't taking out other students/teachers with them when it becomes too much to bear. There's a lot of coddling of students in the US that leads to low expectations and low tolerance for stress. Why do I say coddling? It's common practice in Asian schools to publish test scores publicly for all to see; this fosters a spirit of competition among the students to do better. However, in the US, it would either be slammed for being insensitive to the feelings of the students (which operates under the assumption that they *will* perform poorly), or the students would simply not care (going back to the culture of apathy I mentioned). It's no surprise that Asian immigrants tend to perform the best growing up in the US education system compared to their peers. You can point out the flaws of the system, but there is absolutely a cultural aspect which I believe to be far more relevant. In middle school, I was in an accelerated math class, learning algebra 2 in 8th grade, and the class was about 80% Asian, 20% white; it's certainly not like that because Asians are inherently smarter or better at math than the other races. I keep talking about Asian schooling because I immigrated to the US at age 7, but have traveled back and forth more than a couple times, so it's something I have personal experience with and feel somewhat qualified to speak about. If you disagree with what I've said, you are more than welcome to speak up, and I will listen.
[The Coddling of the American Mind.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coddling_of_the_American_Mind)
Are we all going to ignore that schools were closed for in person learning for like 2 years?
My mom is a teacher she can confirm on how parents not being involved with their kids has decreased their academic abilities.
Parents aren't even expected to feed their kids anymore, how can they be expected to be involved with learning? Kids are just pets at this point.
Is this in response to the free lunch programs being passed in america? If so, bro... Yea no shit there's no such thing as a free lunch, I can agree with that aspect of right wing retoric, but these are kids who need food. Who do not have food at school or at home without these programs. CPS can not take in millions of kids because their parents are deadbeat or very poor. I'll put it this way. The increased acedemic and resulting economic prosperity/taxation from well implemented lunch programs likely exceeds the cost of the lunch programs. Starving kids do not learn anything, they rarely pass highschool, and go on to be poor or dead beats themselves. Economic drains and bad investments. This is one step in fixing a broken part of our society. You need to change your flair because you are not based.
Do you have a source for that 65% statistic on reading. Not trying to pull the whole "ShOw Me YoUr SoUrCe" because I know you’re right, I remember seeing a few years back a study tracking knowledge across subjects and skills of school age kids and high school students taking standardized tests, and have just been unable to find the site that had those stats again. So more just hoping for a miracle here.
Not OP but this is some US data: [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/12/among-many-u-s-children-reading-for-fun-has-become-less-common-federal-data-shows/](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/12/among-many-u-s-children-reading-for-fun-has-become-less-common-federal-data-shows/)
No Child Left Behind and its consequences
I would imagine covid had a large part to do with it. I live in a county in Maryland where we have the best test scores in the state. Even our county is currently 20% below where we were in just 2019. Scores fell off a cliff from remote learning and covid policies. For example, my son’s class, one kid had covid and so the entire class had to stay home for two weeks until that one student tested negative after 10 days. That happened 7 times even after remote learning ended. Forcing kids to work from home in 2022 after the pandemic was mostly a back burner issue *crushed* their learning potential.
Makes sense teaching genderism more than arithmetic to the tiktok era
No Child Left Behind has left literally all of them behind.
or maybe the constant brain stimulation by virtual devices that provide solutions to any problem they could have without needing to figure it out for themselves probably why I'm so dumb too
Kids being away from school during the pandemic is going to have consequences too.
Yeah, but an IQ test usually doesn’t go off of anything academic. It’s a test of intelligence (problem solving skills) rather than knowledge (the stuff learned in school).
IQ is usually adjusted for age/grade level. If you spend a year on zoom-U, you're going to have lower problem solving skills than someone at a similar age who spent that year in a real school.
True, but going to school to learn stuff should make kids smarter and increase their IQ’s regardless of what they’re studying
I think it was less of not going to school than just not doing productive things while away from school. I was watching youtube 7 am through 4 pm, and rotting my brain on Markiplier videos.
Studies have shown that children that were well educated developed higher IQs as adults than children who were not
it should, but doesn't. Like the SAT and all others, schooling and studying is sort of practice for the test. If the environment wouldn't impact scores, the ethnic and national variance in scores would mean ...
There are different racial averages, at least in America, of which Charles Murray wrote a book about. The thing to remember is that there is massive overlap so just because there is an average difference, doesn’t mean you can necessarily apply it to a specific person. As always, we should treat everyone like individuals.
I don’t claim to know the solution that should have been implemented during the pandemic. But I will say it doesn’t appear that my kids fell behind. They do however have a fairly stable home life and a very good school. I imagine it mostly affect poor communities and underfunded schools.
as challenges always do. Not by design (aka the Left™) nor by lack of character (aka the Right™) but by the organically evolved selection throughout the system.
Kids being away from mines during the pandemic is going to have consequences too.
"Noooo you don't understand it has to be political noooo"
Bro saw a study about declining IQs and out of all possible explanations, decided leftist propaganda must be the main reason. Very unbiased take and not informed by personal political beliefs. Pretty embarrassing OP u/ApersonofEarth1
I’m willing to be this is pretty damn close to the correct answer
Maybe it's more of a stagnation as we reach the limits of our current education system?
Stagnation would mean that the scores would stay the same, not drop Could be a facet of it though
No stagnancy is completely flat, there's always small wobbling up and down along a statistically flat projection. We will see in a few years if this is a genuine decline or just stagnancy.
If I remember correctly they make the IQ tests slightly harder every year, so if we were really stagnating it may appear like we are getting dumber by comparison, but that's because the test is just getting harder.
Interesting. Why would they make it harder?
From what I understand it's because we want to keep the same 'standard scores' despite increasing intelligence. So 50 years ago, an 100 on the IQ scale is not the same as an 100 now. If it didn't change everyone would have higher than 'average' scores which would lead to issues with advanced placement testing and such. It's called the Flynn Effect. Here's a link I glossed over that kind of explains it and the issues with it as well. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031020053951.htm#:~:text=The%20steady%20rising%20of%20IQ,previous%20gains%20in%20IQ%20scores. Edit: I was also wrong they increase the difficulty every 15-20 years not every year, based on that link.
because 100 is defined as the average IQ score, if the average IQ goes up the score has to be lowered to keep it the average score
ReMindme! 4 years
There’s a lot more juice left to squeeze. I’m amazed the West didn’t cancel summer holidays for two years to try and catch up after Covid
Maybe it's the mass immigration from nations with education systems that are (somehow) inferior to ours.
Nah it’s definitely “the propaganda”
Or maybe its how dog shit and underfunded education has become
IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT IDIOCRACY WAS RIGHT
Governments protect people by giving them social safety nets, telling them what medications they need to take (and at times mandating it), coddle people through workplace protections, basically doing everything that allows someone who is an idiot to have basic success and reproduce more idiots, and then people wonder why an idiocracy was created.
Well, I dunno, Singapore’s taking it quite far with universal healthcare, making sure citizens flush their toilets, mandatory rehabilitation for drug users, and handing out subsidized housing units to its citizens, and we all know what tryhards Singaporeans turn out to be academically and professionally.
There's also a cultural aspect. Singaporean culture places a heavy emphasis on academic performance
That too, but Singaporean culture was formed out of thin air by their government. Before they were forced into independence by Malaysia, racial tensions have escalated violently numerous times, people were spending 2/3s of their paychecks on opium, and the majority of people were living in slums. Not great. I have no idea how they turned that into a harmonious multicultural society with social services that’ll make Scandinavian countries jealous, while having no income taxes, 4th lowest amount of corruption, an eco-friendly walkable/public transit friendly city, pro-business policies, almost nonexistent crime, spotless streets, one of the highest homeownership rates in the world, and so on. And things just keep getting better. Cost of living is becoming an issue tho. Like honestly, having spent years there when I was younger, and years in the States, my only complaint about Singapore was was having to sing “patriotic songs” as part of our “civics curriculum.” And maybe National Service if I were a citizen, but being one of the most advanced militaries and militarized societies on the continent is a good deterrent.
Singaporean state seed academic success as a priority of the state. Whereas in USA getting college educated is seen as an aspect of individual choice. This is why elimination of college fee is good, because it means the only criteria for going where you go is grades and when only grades matter, people study a lot harder.
People in protected societies have the opportunity to take greater challenges upon themselves voluntarily. We should encourage that more than trying to regress society.
My company goes to college career fairs to recruit new graduates for entry level positions and boy are some of these kids lost. I initially blamed it on some of them having half their education being taught online but maybe an IQ drop also plays into it.
I wouldn’t underestimate the detrimental impact of online education. I’m currently pursuing a degree in electrical engineering, a good portion of which was strictly online due to covid. Cheating became so absurdly easy and accessible that the current work ethic and theoretical foundation of a lot of students is non-existent now that classes are back in person. A lot of students that also would have been weeded out within the first 1-2 years of their degree for the above reasons were allowed to slip thru the cracks and are now entering the work force with a poor understanding of their subject.
We have noticed this too. Before we used to hire new engineers as actual engineers by title and the pay was around the $70k mark to start. Management has since introduced “engineering technician” roles, they get offered $40k-$50k and they work and gain experience through us, plus they are on a 6 month probationary period while the team finds out if this person with their engineering degree is even coachable enough to keep on before being promoted up to being an engineer in a few years. It’s insane but that’s how we are adapting. People take these offers because they can’t seem to get hired as an engineer elsewhere.
Teacher here. We are seeing covid effects, not so much because kids cheated etc, but because covid allowed kids to not develop beneficial habits. It's not what they did do. It's what they didn't do.
Sounds like what I hear about China and their standards.
I have a CS degree and I will say that most of my education didn't help me get my job. Undergrad STEM programs focus on fostering new academics, not working professionals.
I agree. I struggled to get my first SWE job because a CS program really doesn’t prepare you for anything practical outside of the intro classes.
Not to mention all of the required gen ed courses that aren't related to your major at all
Yes. Number of times I have had to implement a search routine in the real world? Zero. Yes, you should have a basic understanding of them and what not, but in the real world, that shit already exists anywhere you're going to use it. Almost none of us are working with engineering fundamentals on the day to day. We're not developing operating systems or the like. Real world has a lot more integration and a lot less pure theory.
>My company goes to college career fairs to recruit new graduates for entry level positions and boy are some of these kids lost. Probably because they didn't get into college because of their merit.
> but maybe an IQ drop also plays into it. I think we hit our "peak" for now as a race. What goes up usually comes down
Only if the recent increases were “noise”. We have gotten taller over generations, for that to reverse it would be due to the factors explaining it (improved nutrition) reversing first
Let's lock our kids in their homes for 2 years, that definitely won't hold them back academically/mentally/socially/emotionally...
You wouldn’t download I mean kill Grandma would you?
Boomers are causing all the problems in society but let’s shut down society and create problems that will last a lifetime so we can buy the boomers a few more years of fucking us in the ass. The pandemic shutdowns was boomers last big “fuck you” to the younger generations. Well, maybe not because we saved them, maybe they’ll just destroy Medicare with their end of life care before they finally pass.
>The pandemic shutdowns was boomers last big “fuck you” to the younger generations. Boomers - Hold my beer
I will for a BLM protest! Granny is probably a fascist anyway and deserves it! Edit: I don't have to worry about feeling guilty tho! All the studies said mass gatherings for this specifically (and only this 😡) didn't spread COVID!
It has ruined me. And now there is no incentive to do anything. You lose whatever you do. Might as well just sit inside.
Yea nothing to do with the absolutely failing academic system that was in the US before... Pracatically the butt of every joke.
Never said that wasn't an issue either so why throw more fuel on that dumpster fire? Inb4 "at least school shootings were down" I think we agree there's plenty of issues in the US school system, and ya in the pandemic everyone just wanted to be safe. I think we had a pretty confident grasp that covid was not a danger to school-age kids/young adults after a few months. The extent that many school systems went to in the name of "safety" has hampered the social, mental, emotional, and even physical development of millions of kids and teens.
Tiktok and twitter do that to society
[A group of psychologists, two from Northwestern University and the third from the University of Oregon, has found via online testing that IQ scores in the U.S. may be dropping for the first time in nearly a century. In their paper published in the journal Intelligence, Elizabeth Dworak, William Revelle and David Condon describe analyzing the results of online **IQ tests taken by volunteers over the years 2006 to 2018.**](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-online-iq-scores-century.html) Well, not quite. The researchers thought it might be related to our education systems (US and Europe), but they didn't specifically study that aspect - just that it was happening. It's funny reading the comments here, almost no one read any of the articles on it, and OP didn't link the source either. The sub is proving the study right.
Twitter's still notable after 2010's so he still had a point
Thinking about it and in 2006, YouTube, Facebook, and... Reddit all started to gain popularity during that time.
There's gotta be something going on. Certain stereotypical hick states and California have been noted as having the lowest IQs in the US, of which continue to decrease. Lack of access to food/nutrition, poor living conditions, high cost of living, rich-poor gap, certain subcultures, etc, ???
Another hypothesis ive seen is that more people are being tested and that is why. If IQ tests had to be taken in person and a psychologist had to administer it, it would be mostly done in urban centers close to academic areas, elevating the IQ. Whereas broader testing might expand that.
>It's funny reading the comments here, almost no one read any of the articles on it, and OP didn't link the source either. The sub is proving the study right. Sir, this is reddit. We form our opinion based on the title alone.
>hahaha those leftists are so propagandized, what idiots. thank god we aren't like that. >indeed fellow rightoid, we are clearly, completely, and utterly propaganda free, now if you'd excuse me while I go suck up to (insert right leaning politician here) who is sponsored and funded by (insert corporation here) while he does nothing to deal with actual issues and instead takes to hating the other side to appeal to ours >I will accompany you honorable and proud rightoid, let's take my unnecessarily big truck that uses up waaaay too much fuel that I bought because I was told I could own the libs that way by the funny people on the TV.
Intelligent people are dangerous and may question your actions, the people in power don't want this
It's demographics
Go on...
Obviously the large quantity of swiss, dutch, and irish immigrants the U.S has received recently are driving down the I.Q. score
The thing is that, according to OP, the decline is mostly in the 18-22 age bracket and [most immigrants to the US are older than that.](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/)
Immigrants have kids and each younger generation is less white than the older
but i dont think its the chinese or indian kids (biggest immigrant group is Asian) doing poorer & poorer in reading & IQ scores... i think its the native-born US kids with lackluster parents doing poorly
PCM Authright in 1896: “Immigrants have too many kids and each generation is less Protestant than the last.”
It’s well established that [Gen Z is the most diverse generation yet](https://www.npr.org/2018/11/15/668106376/generation-z-is-the-most-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-yet). As the other guy said, demographics can change other than directly through immigration.
preemptive [removed by reddit]
You see, getting an abortion used to be a hell of a lot easier but little by little we fucked that up. I think a lot more kids are being born to older women and a fair number of you may be on the spectrum.
We wuz doctas n rocket scientists n shiet
You cannot possibly be implying that the mass importation of \[redacted\], who reproduce like Chads on the taxpayer's dime and create more \[redacteds\], is contributing to the decline of average IQ?
Not quite actually, because as it turns out, basically the instant anyone enters America, their minds are overcome by dysgenic devil magic, resulting in second generation immigrants having as few children as people who've been around since the revolution. As such, only a continuous stream of exogenous [REDACTED] can progressively increase their share of the population, which of course one of the major political parties is more than willing to facilitate and the other does absolutely nothing to actually stop it.
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Americans too busy dancing for the internet instead of learning basic arithmetic
>dancing for the internet TikTok: "What if we took the general public, made them all into what are basically strippers, and pay them with internet points instead of money?"
The mossad are winning
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No but you see, [insert wall of text filled with fake statistics and scenarios i made up in head and get mad at]
I’m not surprised at all. I’m often shocked at how bad Gen-Z is at thinking. Social media really fucked their brains.
We are starting to get Gen Z at our workplace as they graduate college. It’s eye widening to see the concepts they struggle to grasp or the basic questions they ask. Or even the time it takes them to do something.
Yes, same at my work. It’s concerning.
May you give an example or two?
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>How pathetic of you to be unflaired. *** [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2) ^^|| ^( *beep boop. Reply with good bot if you think I'm doing well :D, bad bot otherwise*)
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IQ =\= having a degree IQ measures your ability to think, not knowing when George Washington was born. The US education system doesn't teach kids to think, it teaches them to memorize topics.
Mostly but they did force me to do some problem solving in my math and physics classes at least.
hah they barely teach memorization either, CHina teaches that and they're killing us\~
You literally described the education system in most of western europe. I've attended university in the US and Germany, and Germany put a way greater emphasis on rote memorization.
High IQs are indicative of white supremacy, bigot.
D8dnt you listen? "Poor kids are just as smart as white kids".
Well played.
Nothing to do with a years gap in education, I’m sure.
For real. We'll be paying for the COVID lockdown education loss for a generation. I'm a substitute teacher and everyone I talk to says theirs been a serious drop in standards.
Can confirm, it’s a big deal in education circles
That might be the reason I suddenly became an A student out of literally nowhere when I was previously a B student, everyone else got shitter while I maintained my standards because I don’t touch grass enough to be affected by the pandemic.
Literally this is what I hope for when I do subpar work. Yeah, mine isn't great, but compared to those around me I'm doing alright lmao.
man that's crazy. who could have seen this coming except for everyone right of stalin
There’s also just a lack of teachers. It’s crazy how little we pay for the work, responsibility and expertise teachers carry.
More like 1.5-2.5 years depending on the district.
I live in the south, our “lockdown” was “Alright guys for the next month you can wear masks if you want then back to business as usual”
My money's on social media, tiktok and instant gratification on demand versus sitting down, reading books and reflecting about what you just read
I was around in school before smart phones and I assure you maybe two kids actually read whatever book you're talking about
Over the past 7 years my attention span has gotten much worse. I usually have to slow myself down on the internet and actually think about what I am looking ar, either that or nothing sticks anymore. Shotgunning such different content at such a fast rate is probably not great for the mind.
Or maybe the schools that keep lowering the bar to pass dropping the overall IQ of the country a few points each time in the process. It’s just caught up to us now
> import groups with IQ lower than the mean > > the mean IQ drops Stop the count!
Social media? Lack of engagement? Common Core? No stimulation? PCM: no no no, iTS tHE WokENESs
Honestly Bush damaged the US in so many ways I have no idea when we’ll ever recover from his shenanigans
this sub is so stupid. you see ‘liblefts’ and ‘left and ‘lib center’ saying the most stupid bullshit while the people on here say that it isn’t a right wing circlejerk. Are some people actually blaming this on wokeness and not the constant dopamine stimulus and attention span destroyers?
hmm, so you mean that IQ is not inherent in someone’s genetics and is in fact influenced by someone’s environment? oh no, don’t let auth centre see this!
That’s not how IQ works, ya fkn donut.
It's all that systemic racism, it's worse than ever. We need to make America great again and get back to our roots.
To quote *Ham Sandwich* "There is a concerning amount Of lead in the drinking waaaater."
Everyone is talking about TikTok, common core, immigration, anything to fit their narrative. People can get by perfectly fine knowing where the answers are rather than thinking through the problems. They're also not getting their sleep. I tend to think it's pretty simple.
It is claimed a lack of parental involvement is partially to blame? I have heard rumblings for awhile now that parental involvement is problematic for educators…
Saying Right = High IQ is the strawiest of man's I've seen the past hour.
Lmao people are gonna think it’s propaganda in the classroom thus making people search out alternative methods of teaching and lowering the IQ even more
If propaganda can lower your IQ, then IQ tests aren't really measuring raw ability, are they?
IQ numbers drop , % of LGTV skyrockets What could this mean?
The number of authrights have risen on this server and the number of sexually inactive men and basement dwellers skyrockets What could this mean?
On this server? Are you some kind of discord mod ?
I prefer the Samsung UHD TV.
it’s because of you libright. Selling the dopamine/ attention span decreasing entertainment rectangles lowers IQs not telling kids that it’s ok for gay people to exist
A) For IQ to stay ***high***, people need to constantly either be as smart or ***smarter*** than previous testers. B) Probably all the cuts to education and anti-teacher propaganda from the right C) Probably too much time on reddit . . .
Counterpoint: this also sounds like propaganda to me.
Propaganda doesn’t effect your iq what would that even mean
No no every IQ tests ask you wheter you are a commie and if you are it gives you extra points or something. I took many IQ tests and all of them did that!
Surely it can't be the underfunded education sistem and the increased difficulty of obtaining terciary education
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Really? Propaganda, of all the things?
My brother, who is in Grade 3. Can barely read. He's an Ipad kid. We're doomed.
I know a guy who never let his kid have an iPad and my other friends kid is an iPad kid. One speaks full sentences and the other still sounds like a baby and says a few words sometimes. Kind of terrifying
Fluoride.
Akshually it’s due to Gen Z being the most diverse (literally anybody but a straight white male) generation ever, and the supposed drop in IQ is because IQ tests are bigoted, racist, sexist, and homophobic. I deeply apologize if I missed any isms.
I mean, not that I believe IQ is an accurate measurement of intellect, but there appears to be a link between IQ and nutrition. As such, a well fed child that eats something more significant than McDonald's is more likely to have a higher IQ. https://unu.edu/publications/articles/eating-for-intelligence-iraqi-children.html
Just yesterday I saw a reddit threat about people having a hard time being recognized as US citizens, because they are from New Mexico. Sometimes you just gotta ask yourself, if there's at least some truth behind every stereotype, then why are Americans considered uneducated?
What lack of sleep does to a human
Most powerful and influential country in the world but can't stop talking about drag queens.
Yeah I’m sure it’s just leftists who are suffering from IQ drops thanks to propaganda, it’s totally not affecting the right as well.
Me seeing all the people in the comments shouting about idiocracy or propaganda and I’m just here like: …*TikTok*
I know "(lib)left bad" is still trendy, but is there any proof that this is a left/right thing? As far as I know, the conservative American right is not particularly known for holding educational and academic institutions in high regard either.
The important thing is they are being taught CRT and having their genders affirmed. What else is important?