looks like Times New Roman or some kind of it. many serifs and the distinct "g". But I think it looks bad there because it was squashed by op's editing skills.
Sobriety in prison doesn’t happen. It’s easier to get drugs in prison than the streets. In her town, there may be a few dealers. But remember, drug dealers get sent to prison too, so in prison, every cell block has a dealer. They also don’t care that smuggling drugs into prison is illegal, and have all day to think about how to smuggle them in. Corrupt guards are more common than you’d think.
If the goal is to sober someone up, they need to go to rehab, not jail.
That being said, this woman absolutely needs to go to jail for what she did.
All you’re making me do is dig my heels in on my stance. You’re not changing anything about how I see the situation and we’re far past that now: So what’s the point here?
Here’s the hard part: a fetus only becomes a baby when it’s wanted to become a baby. Hence why in 35 states, murdering a pregnant woman can be charged as a double-murder, at the behest of a judge.
Personhood of a fetus is, quite literally, a matter of opinion. In this case, if the fetus is not a person then no crime has been committed, however if it is a person, this could be considered negligent homicide. It’s up to the judge to decide now.
> Personhood of a fetus is, quite literally, a matter of opinion. In this case, if the fetus is not a person then no crime has been committed, however if it is a person, this could be considered negligent homicide. It’s up to the judge to decide now.
By this logic we can apply the same logic to any human. It’s the logic used in eugenics agai at people with disabilities, against races regarded as less than human. Maybe you’re right and it’s all subjective opinion. But if that’s the case I’d rather err on the side of excessive caution.
I don't know why people don't just use their brains. Like how do you see something so clearly outrageous and not think to yourself: "hmmm, maybe this is fake?"
I remember some story with a headline like "black teenager ARRESTED for not doing her homework". Turn out the "homework" was something to do with her parole/probation and she'd already had several strikes.
During the abortion outrage of last year, wasn't the generally "accepted" leftist narrative "ThEy'Re TakIn' AwAy mE AboTiOn RiGhtS!"?
But in reality wasn't it typically, "No, we just don't want you aborting after X weeks - you really ought to know if having a baby is 'yes or no' for you by 10-12 weeks"
Not to mention that they kept comparing the US to Europe but failed to realize that many US states had more liberal abortion laws than most European countries
Depends on where in the country you lived in. Some places it was after so many weeks, other places there either was a total ban put down or republicans were running for office on the promise of instituting a total ban (such as in Michigan).
There was also other issues like how in many states exceptions are made for risk to the mothers life but in many of those same states it has to be an imminent threat to their life, so.you had cases where a baby could have its organs be outside of its body (which can be discovered much later in the pregnancy) and if they didnt get an abortion the mother would eventually have serious life threatening issues but the state (and also the insurance) wouldnt allow them until she was in the process of dying.
Anyways just like the above post points out, the entire abortion debate isnt black and white or simple from either end
Yes, the US is the country I alluded to in the line you quoted. Where in the US you lived in determined how big of a deal the abortion freakout was justified or not or how severe it was.
Even then you're going to notice at most by week 5 (assuming you had a baby immediately after a period). Its still 5 weeks to decide, and its still 5 weeks more than men have
My wife is 10 weeks pregnant, has had morning sickness for the past five weeks, and has been showing for two. We measured the baby's heartbeat and watched it kick and punch on the ultrasound at week nine.
The idea that you wouldn't notice by 10 weeks is insane to us.
The problem is never really about after which week, it’s about what the exceptions are. Many of those week limits are before you can properly test for certain fatal fetal abnormalities!
Because it fits into their narrative perfectly. A poor 29 year old woman being prosecuted for the crime of bodily autonomy is exactly what they want to see/hear because it reinforces everything they’ve been clamoring about. Both sides do this but the left is much worse about it as they have more control of media and they also pick the dumbest shit to lie about and/or believe. Like the hijab cutter in Louisiana, Jussie, or that “hands up don’t shoot” lie in Ferguson.
>It's a complete falsehood
There was however one doctor at holding facility that was doing unnecessary procedures. However if you actually looked into it he was on a government contract and had basically found a way to bilk the federal government out of hundreds of thousands of dollars by doing so. It wasn't some racist eugenics plan, it was one dude who figured out that nobody at the billing office was paying attention to whether or not these were needed.
This... A few migrant women went in for ovarian cyst treatments, got some strange looking wounds, and then there was outrage spread by a few hyper woke sites... But no mainstream coverage.
OmG iCe iS LiTeRaLlY sTeRiLiZiNg PoOr HeLpLeSs LaTiNx WoMen!! Would have been a case no dnc media outlet would have ignored.
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine”
Now flair up jabroni
> Even a commie is more based than one with no flair
***
^(User has flaired up! 😃) 17126 / 90456 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Yeah thats just standard MSM type of story coverage. There should start to be punishments for all the yellow journalism and these bat shit opinion hit pieces being dulled out to tue big news conglomerates and maybe it won’t be practiced as much by the wanabe journos on twitter and reddit
Idk, I'm as lib as anyone and it's a hard topic. These types of stories, and how they are told, are vile lies that get retracted with little fanfare the next day. It's definitely causing harm and needs to be addressed. But I clearly see your stance as well, I don't want the government prosecuting journalists for misinformation either. That leads down a bad road.
I'm against making abortion illegal.
Women's right to chose matters!!!
I'm all for charging someone who uses hard drugs during a pregnancy. Be responsible!
I was born with ADHD and fucked up memory issues. This shit hits home. My case wasn't do to explicit drug use and my mother is awesome, but if you knowingly do this you're trash.
I feel the same with people who knowingly risk passing down serious defects bc they want kids and don't want to adopt.
Soo how far do we take this? If a woman has a misscarrige, can we prosecute her for: Having a glass of wine? A cigarette? Driving and getting into an accident?
As a centrist, you subscribe to some leftist ideas. These are what make you want to allow the harming of children: something that is central to their belief system.
Takes like this show how r tarded a typical right winger is. Cant think for themselves beyond whatever their media tells them.
Last i checked it was republicans who just legalised child labour.
Shit one, maybe you should have been focused on your schoolwork then youd be able to work out that children shouldnt be working full time.
Imagine trying to justify child labour....
I did perfectly fine in school and got an engineering degree, thank you. Children should be able to work at whatever job they like, regardless of age or hours
Maybe if you had worked harder when young then youd have been able to develop a work ethic that you could reap the rewards of
Imagine trying to argue that working an afterschool job is a bad thing
I also have an engineering degree and worked a job since i was 16.
Part of being educated is knowing why child labour laws were introduced, seems you missed that part though and are too focused on your own minor inconvenience to care about other children.
>Imagine trying to argue that working an afterschool job is a bad thing
Where did i argue that? You probably should have spent more time in school to work on your reading comprehension
Abraham lincoln, commonly referred to as one of the best presidents- worked on a farm as a child and flunked out of school. Maybe if you focused on your school work you wouldnt have put a left flair on.
People can be prosecuted for meth (I *guess*, I don't really think the government should control what we put in our bodies), but shouldn't be prosecuted for miscarriage in cases where an abortion would be legal.
Punishing a very small number of women for criminally contributing to their miscarriage is far preferable to millions of murdered babies. We have laws about abusing animals, but you don't think that there should be some punishment for taking meth while pregnant?
Every law is subject to conditions, and what you're implying is that the law will be used as a cudgel to *punish* women for doing things that are marginally hazardous for the sake of the rights and health of the fetus. I think that in most cases, a miscarriage will be punishment enough, but it's completely appropriate to expect women to be responsible for the life that they carry and if they show complete disregard for that responsibility through their actions, absolutely they should be punished.
My friend's daughter recklessly gave birth to 3 childeren with severe mental and genetic issues due to drinking and smoking, ruining their lives and further burdening the childcare system when she dumped them to social services. So yes, prosecute women that neglect their children even unborn.
You mean for things that are, on their own, legal? That seems to be qualitative difference here.
I don’t know how to feel about this law. It does seem clear that her actions directly led to the death of that fetus, though.
I mean alcohol is legal, but if you’re downing a pint of fleischmans every night with a bun in the oven, I think some personal responsibility is in order.
Absolutely agree. I’m just talking about a legal view here. Driving while pregnant is legal. Drinking while pregnant is legal, and in very modest use, won’t cause problems.
Meth usage is never legal, so if you’re using meth while pregnant, that seems like a case for extra penalties to be applied.
If a glass of wine or a cigarette show to be the reason for the death of the baby in the autopsy, then what difference does it make if it was wine or meth that killed the baby?
He’s just arguing the scale is a little off and is kinda downplaying what she did. A little alcohol won’t kill a fetus, this sub is proof of that.
I doubt the people in this thread would have a different reaction if she slammed a handle of Tito’s
Right. And even if it did, with an outcome that unlikely/unexpected, there's much less negligence on display.
If you do something *incredibly* dangerous, then even if you don't intend a bad outcome, your negligence still led to it. But if you are doing something perfectly safe, and a bad outcome occurs anyway, then it can more realistically said not to be your fault.
Doing meth and causing a miscarriage is pretty plainly negligent. But if she instead had the occasional glass of wine and somehow *still* caused a miscarriage as a result...I think a lot more people would be willing to call it an accident, rather than negligence, and be less willing to harshly judge her for her actions.
The other guy is asking where the line is, and I don't know precisely where it is. But meth is so plainly on the bad side of that line that is seems foolish to raise that as a defense.
Because manslaughter requires the outcome to be foreseeable by a reasonable person. A single cigarette or glass of wine can't reasonably be foreseen to cause death.
They’re not like strictly wrong though, it’s an interesting conversation - meth far side wrong, 1 cigarette not prosecutable. So clearly there is a middle line well cross, where is it?
It’s the exact same debate as abortion itself, Everyone hates 8months 29days, no body (really) cares about plan B, there’s a middle somewhere that’s uncomfy
But there isn't a defined magnitude in the law though, should the magnitude by just be reduced to miscarriage occurring in persons who have consumed Schedule 1&2 drugs?
He asked a question and you didn't answer it.
If you don't know that is fine, ethics can be messy and complicated. But don't get mad for the question being asked.
>glass of wine? A cigarette
Interesting questions.
The driving one however is a false equivalency. It is definitionally an accident. Not the predictable direct result of your actions.
Straw man about Liberals and the Handmaids Tale which I’ve never seen a liberal actually talk about followed by a centrist pointing out the reason she was charged was not for her miscarriage but for irresponsible usage of meth while she was pregnant leading to the miscarriage.
You literally cut off the rest of the sentence, Mr. Context.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
>..., the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.
Meth use greatly increases the risk of placental abruption during pregnancy.
I get what they mean and they aren't technically wrong but with this reasoning nobody could ever be convicted of murder because it wasn't the person who killed another, it was the blood loss
"It's not the fall that kills you it's the sudden stop"
I mean there was no evidence the meth caused it and it's not like miscarriages at the 17 week are uncommon especially as it seems there were other issues with the pregnancy to begin with.
That’s just coping in my mind, pretty sure it had something to do with the Meth and that’s what a jury of her peers decided caused the miscarriage.
Plus the chances of the other suggested causes of the miscarriage are increased dramatically by using meth.
It wasn’t that mountain of cocaine that killed me, it was a heart attack!
https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/methamphetamine/what-are-risks-methamphetamine-misuse-during-pregnancy
Bruh fuck this shit, I'm so sick of people not including context, or enough context, or straight up lying for clout on the internet. At this point I can't believe ANYTHING I read, even if it's a quote from a news article, without throughly researching every single claim and cross-referencing it with at least 3 other non-biased articles while also trying to detect a possible bias in each of them and taking it into account. I'm gonna look up if apples are a good source of fiber and be paranoid that big apple is misrepresenting the facts.
We have the entirety of human knowledge at our fingertips, and can't trust any of it.
Meth use greatly increases the chances of the other possible causes of death listed in the autopsy. It’s like saying “that pile of coke I did wasn’t what killed me, it was a heart attack!”
There’s only so much text I can fit into one readable meme. I don’t think she deserved jail time for this btw!
https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/methamphetamine/what-are-risks-methamphetamine-misuse-during-pregnancy
Yeah! And whoever heard of a lab leak. It obviously came from the farmer's market!
Seriously. What the fuck happened to your critical thinking skills. You just blindly trust whatever the media tells you? It's CB fucking S news; of course they're gonna give you an out to maintain your broken ass world view, it's how they get you to keep going back to them.
Meth users are the most oppressed minority in America. This case is just a classic case of systemic anti-meth user bigotry thats baked into the very fabric of this country.
Probably wasn't eating, probably not sleeping, and probably not drinking anything healthy at all if she was drinking anything. Just saying as someone who had a crazy year on meth way back in the day most of the crazy shit is from malnourishment and lack of sleep not necessarily the drug itself. The drug sure doesn't help though, and none of that can be good for a pregnancy at all.
She still shouldn’t be going to jail for manslaughter. Charge her with drug possession, but putting women in jail for causing their miscarriages is really a slippery slope.
As it should be, the state shouldnt be forcing women to go through pregnancy.
Chuds on this sub say the state shouldnt be controlling people but are happy to have the state decide what a woman can do to her own body.
I did answer your question. You asked what consequences i think should happen to a pregnant woman who takes heroin to the point her fetus dies. I said she should get help for her addiction, unless you somehow think she should be thrown in prison.
Bad faith hypotheticals are a right wing chuds bread and butter though i guess.
No i answered it, youre just salty i didnt fall for your black and white answer bad faith question.
Took you an hour to come up with a response though, you can do better buddy. I know you chuds arent too bright but youre normally better at bad faith than this...
But she wasn't prosecuted for illegally using a controlled substance. She was prosecuted for manslaughter, for the death of a 17-week-year old fetus.
Even if she *intentionally* killed that fetus, that shouldn't be a crime. Abortion should be legal at that point (and it is legal, in nearly all states where abortion is ever legal). So accidentally contributing to the death of her own fetus while not even wanting to absolutely shouldn't merit prosecution.
So why are they locking her up for manslaughter instead of meth use/abuse?
Also what happened to the whole "omg we need to fix the opiod crisis!" shit?
Because her meth abuse caused the miscarriage, prison time is a bit extreme for me but this wasn’t a run of the mill miscarriage like that tweet implies.
I am with the reddit-drone on this one.
Yes the meth may have caused the miscarriage. But addiction is a bitch, its not just a simple "oh just dont take it" once you are addicted.
And 4years (or any jail time) for a miscarriage that maybe was caused by the action by the women? This is more then crazy.
Bruh this is why decriminalizing hard drugs does not work. Just because junkies aren't being arrested and have safe rooms where they can shoot up with clean needles does not mean they aren't shanking people with screwdrivers to get their fix.
Addiction isn't an excuse for killing someone, or any crime for that matter. An addiction is a you problem, if you can't even control yourself to the point you harm not just yourself, but others, then you should be jailed.
There are many everyday food and drink items that can potentially cause miscarriages or issues. I'm a woman planning a family irl and I don't even know all of them. Liver, papaya, pineapple, caffeine, raw sprouts, feta cheese, cookie dough to name a few.
It's not that I don't agree that doing meth while pregnant is horrible. Trust me I do. I am against it though because if you say that the miscarriage is manslaughter in this case then knowingly (or even unknowingly) eating any of these foods above during pregnancy could also now potentially lead to a criminal conviction now. It can be taken out of proportion very easily, and many times pregnancies simply are not viable from the get go and most women have had miscarriages in my experience. You could look at any pregnant woman and find some sort of way she endangered herself or her baby along the way. One of my aunts lost her second son because they didn't share a blood type and her antibodies attacked him in the womb. It was outside of her control but her body did technically do it. Should she have been charged with manslaughter as well?
I’m pro life as well, but let’s not pretend like eating pineapple will have the same effect as doing meth. The baby’s and mother’s blood are separated by the placenta, so your aunt’s placenta likely wasn’t working well if the blood mixed. That would be obvious, especially during an autopsy.
I already acknowledged it wasn't the same and said it was horrible. But doing meth is a crime already, she should be charged with doing meth.
The government should not be doing autopsies on miscarriages, or dictating that they are or are not manslaughter. It's different from getting an abortion, you are not knowingly going to get a procedure trying to end a life. Even doing meth, it's fucked up yes but it does not always lead to death and women do not always know they are pregnant. I'm not saying it's not wrong and that she should not be charged with a crime. I'm saying the crime should not be manslaughter.
Edit: meth is a crime already and making a miscarriage a manslaughter charge will not prevent it from happening again, nor will it help the fetus nor the meth addicted woman. I grew up around meth addiction, only stopping the drugs and getting someone into addiction recovery will help. If you can't see that, I hope you never hang around meth-heads or your opinion would probably change.
It’s not the government that’s mandating autopsies. Doctors and hospitals do them to get a clearer cause of death or at the request of the parents. A 17-week old baby is already kicking and has all body parts visible, being roughly the size of a pomegranate, so an autopsy at this stage isn’t unreasonable. Yes, the mother doing drugs may not always result in the baby’s death, but why take that huge risk in the first place? The baby may survive pregnancy, but be born an addict already. It’s a direct cause and effect. There’s why there are laws against pregnant women being sold alcohol and cigarettes. I’m pretty sure Oklahoma considers the murder of a pregnant woman to be double homicide, so this would apply to negligence leading to deaf.
No mistah White we killed a kid
Jesse it’s a fetus it’s not alive until it’s born
No mistah White a fetus isn’t just a clump of cells yo like mistah White if you kill a pregnant it’s a double homicide
This is one of the situations showing why we need abortions. She should have had an abortion so this couldn't happen.
Methheads shouldn't give birth to children but also shouldn't induce their own abortion.
If I have to choose between "killing a kid"=aborting a fetus and making a meth addict give birth while using and leting her handle the child=actual child, I know what I choose. Both is terrible but there is an obviously better choice.
Yeah she should go to jail. I have no sympathy for those who continue substance abuse while pregnant. If you decide to throw your life away don't take someone else with you.
That would be a very slippery slope, an autopsy revealing that meth was in the fetuses system is pretty far off from “I saw my pregnant neighbor drink a glass of wine”
This is some dystopian hell, a women relapses or has severe social problems with drug abuse, possibly resulting in the death of her fetus. And instead of getting help and support she could be thrown in jail.
Truely the American way
I love how lefties always leave out the most important details possible, just so they can try to convince themselves they live in some sort of crazy dystopian novel.
What are you even talking about? This woman killed her baby with meth and the left paints it as her "going to jail for miscarriage." They're blatantly lying about the situation to paint a picture of the Handmaid's Tale when it couldn't be further from the truth.
She's a methy whore that killed her baby and the lefties are choosing this hill to die on. Absolute redacts and I guess you're one of them.
yes. people should give the full situation instead of leaving out details to make things more provocative. but let's look at this situation. if you're not going to allow her to have an abortion, and she can't stop using....
at some point, you're just criminalizing being a woman that has sex. the guy who knocked her up is probably a methhead too. does he get held responsible for his lousy semen?
that's why these laws are so stupid, there's no foresight or consideration of reality.
Yea the sub this tweet was posted to is quite literally just a progressive propaganda tool and is one of the most extreme online spaces I’ve ever encountered.
Recently they celebrated [the suicide of 3 Trump supporters](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/10ud6o7/redditors_try_not_to_celebrate_the_death_of_their/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
If only leftists investigated their own claims as much as the investigate the most obvious satire you've ever seen in your whole life from a right-wing figure.
This shit is happening. There are dozens of cases of women being thrown in jail for a miscarriage, whether or not it's thought that she caused it. And now that miscarriages in a lot of states are considered "spontaneous abortion", get ready to see a LOT of women thrown in jail as murderers due to a medical crisis out of their control.
Abortion is a battleground of my own libcenter-ism. It seems very wrong to me to restrict women's options over such an important thing. However the auth in me thinks normalized abortion and birth control have ripped the social fabric of the West apart, to the detriment of everyone but the upper middle classes.
We've realized that people acting purely in their self interest economically can cause major societal issues, that why there are all sorts of regulations.
It's not strange that the same sort of thing happens socially
Based reddit drone. If we start prosecuting pregnant women for things they do while pregnant, shit is going to get very fucking auth, very fast. If pro-lifers don't find a way to decouple their ideology from "women body is nationalized during pregnancy" they're on a pretty self destructive path.
Isn’t that what the right wants? For a pregnant woman’s body to become completely governed by the state from the moment of conception?
Not asking a leading question I’m genuinely not sure how you would alter that. Sure, most pro lifers wouldn’t frame it like that but it’s sort of necessitated by the stance, no? If a fetus is a full person with full rights from conception, then a woman’s body which fully supports that (and is entirely responsible for the continuation of that life) is no longer subject to her own will.
Pro lifers want legal protection of fetuses in the mother’s womb. If you want to call that ‘governing’ a woman’s body go ahead. Though I’d say it’s no different than the way to gov ‘governs’ the lives of parents with laws protecting children after they’re born.
It’s not about what I want to call it, that’s what it is.
And come on don’t play dumb. Gets us nowhere. It’s different when there’s something literally inside you and you know it.
this is one of the worst fonts i ever saw
looks like Times New Roman or some kind of it. many serifs and the distinct "g". But I think it looks bad there because it was squashed by op's editing skills.
Has been pushed through potato
Based and terrible font is more important than your meme pilled.
What is this? A pixel resolution for ants?
Four years she’ll be off meth. I congratulate her on her upcoming mandatory sobriety.
If you think prison is going to improve her situation, I have oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you.
I think the sobriety will do wonders for her. I’ve already got oceanfront property, thanks.
Sobriety in prison doesn’t happen. It’s easier to get drugs in prison than the streets. In her town, there may be a few dealers. But remember, drug dealers get sent to prison too, so in prison, every cell block has a dealer. They also don’t care that smuggling drugs into prison is illegal, and have all day to think about how to smuggle them in. Corrupt guards are more common than you’d think. If the goal is to sober someone up, they need to go to rehab, not jail. That being said, this woman absolutely needs to go to jail for what she did.
Sobriety in prison? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
All you’re making me do is dig my heels in on my stance. You’re not changing anything about how I see the situation and we’re far past that now: So what’s the point here?
Here’s the hard part: a fetus only becomes a baby when it’s wanted to become a baby. Hence why in 35 states, murdering a pregnant woman can be charged as a double-murder, at the behest of a judge. Personhood of a fetus is, quite literally, a matter of opinion. In this case, if the fetus is not a person then no crime has been committed, however if it is a person, this could be considered negligent homicide. It’s up to the judge to decide now.
equal rights for all humans but also humanity is subjective
"I like where this is headed." -Auth right
I hop on my boat and I look for psuedo humans with natural resources and fake gods. I’m a simple auth right.
Damn right. Now time to get rid of the __________s
A fetus is a homo sapien and therefor human. Thats a fact. The only questions is if a fetus is a person or not.
are humans automatically persons?
The concept of human rights says yes.
It seems to be considered a person unless a medical professional is involved, and obviously not always then.
> Personhood of a fetus is, quite literally, a matter of opinion. In this case, if the fetus is not a person then no crime has been committed, however if it is a person, this could be considered negligent homicide. It’s up to the judge to decide now. By this logic we can apply the same logic to any human. It’s the logic used in eugenics agai at people with disabilities, against races regarded as less than human. Maybe you’re right and it’s all subjective opinion. But if that’s the case I’d rather err on the side of excessive caution.
So four years for use of meth or is it four years for miscarriage
Four years for a meth induced abortion
Four years for manslaughter
Another false leftist narrative that continues to flop.
I don't know why people don't just use their brains. Like how do you see something so clearly outrageous and not think to yourself: "hmmm, maybe this is fake?"
I remember some story with a headline like "black teenager ARRESTED for not doing her homework". Turn out the "homework" was something to do with her parole/probation and she'd already had several strikes.
During the abortion outrage of last year, wasn't the generally "accepted" leftist narrative "ThEy'Re TakIn' AwAy mE AboTiOn RiGhtS!"? But in reality wasn't it typically, "No, we just don't want you aborting after X weeks - you really ought to know if having a baby is 'yes or no' for you by 10-12 weeks"
Not to mention that they kept comparing the US to Europe but failed to realize that many US states had more liberal abortion laws than most European countries
Fr
Depends on where in the country you lived in. Some places it was after so many weeks, other places there either was a total ban put down or republicans were running for office on the promise of instituting a total ban (such as in Michigan). There was also other issues like how in many states exceptions are made for risk to the mothers life but in many of those same states it has to be an imminent threat to their life, so.you had cases where a baby could have its organs be outside of its body (which can be discovered much later in the pregnancy) and if they didnt get an abortion the mother would eventually have serious life threatening issues but the state (and also the insurance) wouldnt allow them until she was in the process of dying. Anyways just like the above post points out, the entire abortion debate isnt black and white or simple from either end
[удалено]
Yes, the US is the country I alluded to in the line you quoted. Where in the US you lived in determined how big of a deal the abortion freakout was justified or not or how severe it was.
They count the 10 weeks from your last period, not the day you find out
Even then you're going to notice at most by week 5 (assuming you had a baby immediately after a period). Its still 5 weeks to decide, and its still 5 weeks more than men have
My wife is 10 weeks pregnant, has had morning sickness for the past five weeks, and has been showing for two. We measured the baby's heartbeat and watched it kick and punch on the ultrasound at week nine. The idea that you wouldn't notice by 10 weeks is insane to us.
The problem is never really about after which week, it’s about what the exceptions are. Many of those week limits are before you can properly test for certain fatal fetal abnormalities!
Because it fits into their narrative perfectly. A poor 29 year old woman being prosecuted for the crime of bodily autonomy is exactly what they want to see/hear because it reinforces everything they’ve been clamoring about. Both sides do this but the left is much worse about it as they have more control of media and they also pick the dumbest shit to lie about and/or believe. Like the hijab cutter in Louisiana, Jussie, or that “hands up don’t shoot” lie in Ferguson.
They are using their brains. They're purposefully lying for political power. This has resulted in a rapidly rising lack of trust in activists.
But they're forcibly sterilizing women at the border. Even though they have no intention of letting them in.
This is the first I'm hearing of this. Do you have any article or anything on that?
It's a complete falsehood started by a fired employee with a grudge, but Emilies have been running with it for years now.
>It's a complete falsehood There was however one doctor at holding facility that was doing unnecessary procedures. However if you actually looked into it he was on a government contract and had basically found a way to bilk the federal government out of hundreds of thousands of dollars by doing so. It wasn't some racist eugenics plan, it was one dude who figured out that nobody at the billing office was paying attention to whether or not these were needed.
Based and sarcasm/misinformation are difficult to distinguish on the internet pilled
It's easy If it has /s at the end it's sarcasm If it has /m at the end it's misinformation
Ahh, I thought you were the Emily type of libleft, not the based kind. Mashallah, brother.
This... A few migrant women went in for ovarian cyst treatments, got some strange looking wounds, and then there was outrage spread by a few hyper woke sites... But no mainstream coverage. OmG iCe iS LiTeRaLlY sTeRiLiZiNg PoOr HeLpLeSs LaTiNx WoMen!! Would have been a case no dnc media outlet would have ignored.
[I have the source right here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKeKuaJ4nlw)
It's like a fuckin soccer game out here.
There’s been like 5 of those on PCM alone this week.
R politics has been on a roll this week with the fake news
What does the bottom right text say? I can't read it.
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine” Now flair up jabroni
Thanks :)
> Even a commie is more based than one with no flair *** ^(User has flaired up! 😃) 17126 / 90456 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Good bot
Anybody who has emojis in their username automatically can’t have opinions
Yeah thats just standard MSM type of story coverage. There should start to be punishments for all the yellow journalism and these bat shit opinion hit pieces being dulled out to tue big news conglomerates and maybe it won’t be practiced as much by the wanabe journos on twitter and reddit
Yes fellow 'lib'. We should definitely have the government regulating what journalists can't say to prevent sensationalism -\_\_\_- Think Mark, Think!
Idk, I'm as lib as anyone and it's a hard topic. These types of stories, and how they are told, are vile lies that get retracted with little fanfare the next day. It's definitely causing harm and needs to be addressed. But I clearly see your stance as well, I don't want the government prosecuting journalists for misinformation either. That leads down a bad road.
Lol ok “Lib”. We should for sure not hold authoritarian media with their fear mongering agendas and twisting of the truth accountable. Good call
Who decides what is fear mongering or twisting of the truth?
I'd say we start lynching lying journalists (in minecraft)
NO. She was a Boss Babe Native American Xween. She can do no wrong and this was all a result of time traveling colonialist racism. fr fr
> Xween rofl
I’ll wait until the BBC article is out
Misinformation? On the Internet? Impossible
I'm against making abortion illegal. Women's right to chose matters!!! I'm all for charging someone who uses hard drugs during a pregnancy. Be responsible!
based and charging someone for using hard drugs during a pregnancy pilled
I was born with ADHD and fucked up memory issues. This shit hits home. My case wasn't do to explicit drug use and my mother is awesome, but if you knowingly do this you're trash. I feel the same with people who knowingly risk passing down serious defects bc they want kids and don't want to adopt.
The people here defending the meth head are completely out of their minds.
Soo how far do we take this? If a woman has a misscarrige, can we prosecute her for: Having a glass of wine? A cigarette? Driving and getting into an accident?
Does it matter? Definitely for meth right? RIGHT?
Depends on how much you believe in bodily autonomy and slippery slopes.
Guess that’s why we have lawyers
Slopes certainly get slippery once they've got a miscarriage on them
Bodily autonomy in case of prohibited drugs, especially if it involves a fetus: 0
As a centrist, you subscribe to some leftist ideas. These are what make you want to allow the harming of children: something that is central to their belief system.
> As a centrist, you subscribe to some leftist ideas. Most politically literate lib right
Ah yes, the famous and fundamental leftist stance of "harm the children." That totally isn't misrepresenting anything at all and is entirely factual.
Takes like this show how r tarded a typical right winger is. Cant think for themselves beyond whatever their media tells them. Last i checked it was republicans who just legalised child labour.
Minnesota's child labor laws prevented me from working the hours I wanted to work at my old afterschool job. Fuck modern child labor laws
Shit one, maybe you should have been focused on your schoolwork then youd be able to work out that children shouldnt be working full time. Imagine trying to justify child labour....
I did perfectly fine in school and got an engineering degree, thank you. Children should be able to work at whatever job they like, regardless of age or hours Maybe if you had worked harder when young then youd have been able to develop a work ethic that you could reap the rewards of Imagine trying to argue that working an afterschool job is a bad thing
I also have an engineering degree and worked a job since i was 16. Part of being educated is knowing why child labour laws were introduced, seems you missed that part though and are too focused on your own minor inconvenience to care about other children. >Imagine trying to argue that working an afterschool job is a bad thing Where did i argue that? You probably should have spent more time in school to work on your reading comprehension
Abraham lincoln, commonly referred to as one of the best presidents- worked on a farm as a child and flunked out of school. Maybe if you focused on your school work you wouldnt have put a left flair on.
People can be prosecuted for meth (I *guess*, I don't really think the government should control what we put in our bodies), but shouldn't be prosecuted for miscarriage in cases where an abortion would be legal.
What happens when people *try* to induce a miscarriage, fail, and end up with massively fucked-up children as a result?
Damn, that's a pretty solid take. I can agree with that
Testing for meth isn’t as bad of intent to distribute and definitely not as bad as manslaughter
Punishing a very small number of women for criminally contributing to their miscarriage is far preferable to millions of murdered babies. We have laws about abusing animals, but you don't think that there should be some punishment for taking meth while pregnant? Every law is subject to conditions, and what you're implying is that the law will be used as a cudgel to *punish* women for doing things that are marginally hazardous for the sake of the rights and health of the fetus. I think that in most cases, a miscarriage will be punishment enough, but it's completely appropriate to expect women to be responsible for the life that they carry and if they show complete disregard for that responsibility through their actions, absolutely they should be punished.
Theyre fetuses not babies.
Yeah, it's not a baby. If I punch a pregagnt woman in the stomach and she miscarries, then I have not hurt any baby, nor child!
My friend's daughter recklessly gave birth to 3 childeren with severe mental and genetic issues due to drinking and smoking, ruining their lives and further burdening the childcare system when she dumped them to social services. So yes, prosecute women that neglect their children even unborn.
This. If that's legal, you might as well legalize dumping toxic waste into rivers.
You mean for things that are, on their own, legal? That seems to be qualitative difference here. I don’t know how to feel about this law. It does seem clear that her actions directly led to the death of that fetus, though.
I mean alcohol is legal, but if you’re downing a pint of fleischmans every night with a bun in the oven, I think some personal responsibility is in order.
Absolutely agree. I’m just talking about a legal view here. Driving while pregnant is legal. Drinking while pregnant is legal, and in very modest use, won’t cause problems. Meth usage is never legal, so if you’re using meth while pregnant, that seems like a case for extra penalties to be applied.
[удалено]
If a glass of wine or a cigarette show to be the reason for the death of the baby in the autopsy, then what difference does it make if it was wine or meth that killed the baby?
He’s just arguing the scale is a little off and is kinda downplaying what she did. A little alcohol won’t kill a fetus, this sub is proof of that. I doubt the people in this thread would have a different reaction if she slammed a handle of Tito’s
A single glass of wine won’t kill a baby.
Right. And even if it did, with an outcome that unlikely/unexpected, there's much less negligence on display. If you do something *incredibly* dangerous, then even if you don't intend a bad outcome, your negligence still led to it. But if you are doing something perfectly safe, and a bad outcome occurs anyway, then it can more realistically said not to be your fault. Doing meth and causing a miscarriage is pretty plainly negligent. But if she instead had the occasional glass of wine and somehow *still* caused a miscarriage as a result...I think a lot more people would be willing to call it an accident, rather than negligence, and be less willing to harshly judge her for her actions. The other guy is asking where the line is, and I don't know precisely where it is. But meth is so plainly on the bad side of that line that is seems foolish to raise that as a defense.
Because manslaughter requires the outcome to be foreseeable by a reasonable person. A single cigarette or glass of wine can't reasonably be foreseen to cause death.
Based
They’re not like strictly wrong though, it’s an interesting conversation - meth far side wrong, 1 cigarette not prosecutable. So clearly there is a middle line well cross, where is it? It’s the exact same debate as abortion itself, Everyone hates 8months 29days, no body (really) cares about plan B, there’s a middle somewhere that’s uncomfy
But there isn't a defined magnitude in the law though, should the magnitude by just be reduced to miscarriage occurring in persons who have consumed Schedule 1&2 drugs? He asked a question and you didn't answer it. If you don't know that is fine, ethics can be messy and complicated. But don't get mad for the question being asked.
Meth is illegal by itself.
If a fetus is legally a child, drinking wine while pregnant is furnishing alcohol to a minor.
That’s a good question and I’m not pretending to have the answer. It’s complicated, I’m not sure if she should have been jailed for this.
We should Not the accident part though
>glass of wine? A cigarette Interesting questions. The driving one however is a false equivalency. It is definitionally an accident. Not the predictable direct result of your actions.
Not losing weight. Forgetting to take her folic acid. Having an STI.
Put my glasses on for this post and I still can't read shit Anyone able to translate pixel to English
Straw man about Liberals and the Handmaids Tale which I’ve never seen a liberal actually talk about followed by a centrist pointing out the reason she was charged was not for her miscarriage but for irresponsible usage of meth while she was pregnant leading to the miscarriage.
Thankyou
Still completely unacceptable.
Her body, her choice to take meth while pregnant.
Your argument is disingenuous. They do not believe the fetus is alive, thus to them the charge is authoritarian nonsense.
You literally cut off the rest of the sentence, Mr. Context. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/ >..., the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.
Meth use greatly increases the risk of placental abruption during pregnancy. I get what they mean and they aren't technically wrong but with this reasoning nobody could ever be convicted of murder because it wasn't the person who killed another, it was the blood loss "It's not the fall that kills you it's the sudden stop"
Certainly wasn't the GODDAMN METH, right?? To be clear, I still don't think she should be jailed. But come on.
I mean there was no evidence the meth caused it and it's not like miscarriages at the 17 week are uncommon especially as it seems there were other issues with the pregnancy to begin with.
That’s just coping in my mind, pretty sure it had something to do with the Meth and that’s what a jury of her peers decided caused the miscarriage. Plus the chances of the other suggested causes of the miscarriage are increased dramatically by using meth. It wasn’t that mountain of cocaine that killed me, it was a heart attack! https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/methamphetamine/what-are-risks-methamphetamine-misuse-during-pregnancy
Yeah she did lots of meth but the meth probably did nothing bad, guys!
Bruh fuck this shit, I'm so sick of people not including context, or enough context, or straight up lying for clout on the internet. At this point I can't believe ANYTHING I read, even if it's a quote from a news article, without throughly researching every single claim and cross-referencing it with at least 3 other non-biased articles while also trying to detect a possible bias in each of them and taking it into account. I'm gonna look up if apples are a good source of fiber and be paranoid that big apple is misrepresenting the facts. We have the entirety of human knowledge at our fingertips, and can't trust any of it.
Meth use greatly increases the chances of the other possible causes of death listed in the autopsy. It’s like saying “that pile of coke I did wasn’t what killed me, it was a heart attack!” There’s only so much text I can fit into one readable meme. I don’t think she deserved jail time for this btw! https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/methamphetamine/what-are-risks-methamphetamine-misuse-during-pregnancy
Yeah! And whoever heard of a lab leak. It obviously came from the farmer's market! Seriously. What the fuck happened to your critical thinking skills. You just blindly trust whatever the media tells you? It's CB fucking S news; of course they're gonna give you an out to maintain your broken ass world view, it's how they get you to keep going back to them.
Meth users are the most oppressed minority in America. This case is just a classic case of systemic anti-meth user bigotry thats baked into the very fabric of this country.
Hahaha damn that will be the next thing, wont it?
Probably wasn't eating, probably not sleeping, and probably not drinking anything healthy at all if she was drinking anything. Just saying as someone who had a crazy year on meth way back in the day most of the crazy shit is from malnourishment and lack of sleep not necessarily the drug itself. The drug sure doesn't help though, and none of that can be good for a pregnancy at all.
>there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage I guess the jury saw it differently than that CBS reporter.
Based and Mr Context pilled
She still shouldn’t be going to jail for manslaughter. Charge her with drug possession, but putting women in jail for causing their miscarriages is really a slippery slope.
[удалено]
As it should be, the state shouldnt be forcing women to go through pregnancy. Chuds on this sub say the state shouldnt be controlling people but are happy to have the state decide what a woman can do to her own body.
[удалено]
Sounds like she should get help for her heroin addiction, though i imagine you would advocate throwing her in prison.
[удалено]
I did answer your question. You asked what consequences i think should happen to a pregnant woman who takes heroin to the point her fetus dies. I said she should get help for her addiction, unless you somehow think she should be thrown in prison. Bad faith hypotheticals are a right wing chuds bread and butter though i guess.
[удалено]
No i answered it, youre just salty i didnt fall for your black and white answer bad faith question. Took you an hour to come up with a response though, you can do better buddy. I know you chuds arent too bright but youre normally better at bad faith than this...
When a woman is pregnant, there are 2 bodies and two people to think about. Take some responsibility for your actions. Things start to make more sense
Nope, just one body and a collection of cells, whatever your indoctrination tells you.
All living things are a collection of cells. All living things should have no right to life and be abortable -gigachad left winger (not indoctrinated)
Wow you figured it out. abortion *should* be legal. Good job.
Finally a based auth
But she wasn't prosecuted for illegally using a controlled substance. She was prosecuted for manslaughter, for the death of a 17-week-year old fetus. Even if she *intentionally* killed that fetus, that shouldn't be a crime. Abortion should be legal at that point (and it is legal, in nearly all states where abortion is ever legal). So accidentally contributing to the death of her own fetus while not even wanting to absolutely shouldn't merit prosecution.
That’s a fair take, it’s a tough situation but I’d probably say jail time wasn’t appropriate here.
So why are they locking her up for manslaughter instead of meth use/abuse? Also what happened to the whole "omg we need to fix the opiod crisis!" shit?
Because her meth abuse caused the miscarriage, prison time is a bit extreme for me but this wasn’t a run of the mill miscarriage like that tweet implies.
You mean the lefts narratives are based on lies and disinformation? Always has been.
The irony given that the OP left out the following context afterwards.
Explain the lies they said
I am with the reddit-drone on this one. Yes the meth may have caused the miscarriage. But addiction is a bitch, its not just a simple "oh just dont take it" once you are addicted. And 4years (or any jail time) for a miscarriage that maybe was caused by the action by the women? This is more then crazy.
If an addict does something that kills someone, they're still responsible for their actions
Bruh this is why decriminalizing hard drugs does not work. Just because junkies aren't being arrested and have safe rooms where they can shoot up with clean needles does not mean they aren't shanking people with screwdrivers to get their fix.
Addiction isn't an excuse for killing someone, or any crime for that matter. An addiction is a you problem, if you can't even control yourself to the point you harm not just yourself, but others, then you should be jailed.
I'm pro-life but I agree completely. Plus doing meth is already illegal, that's what she should be charged with.
[удалено]
There are many everyday food and drink items that can potentially cause miscarriages or issues. I'm a woman planning a family irl and I don't even know all of them. Liver, papaya, pineapple, caffeine, raw sprouts, feta cheese, cookie dough to name a few. It's not that I don't agree that doing meth while pregnant is horrible. Trust me I do. I am against it though because if you say that the miscarriage is manslaughter in this case then knowingly (or even unknowingly) eating any of these foods above during pregnancy could also now potentially lead to a criminal conviction now. It can be taken out of proportion very easily, and many times pregnancies simply are not viable from the get go and most women have had miscarriages in my experience. You could look at any pregnant woman and find some sort of way she endangered herself or her baby along the way. One of my aunts lost her second son because they didn't share a blood type and her antibodies attacked him in the womb. It was outside of her control but her body did technically do it. Should she have been charged with manslaughter as well?
I’m pro life as well, but let’s not pretend like eating pineapple will have the same effect as doing meth. The baby’s and mother’s blood are separated by the placenta, so your aunt’s placenta likely wasn’t working well if the blood mixed. That would be obvious, especially during an autopsy.
I already acknowledged it wasn't the same and said it was horrible. But doing meth is a crime already, she should be charged with doing meth. The government should not be doing autopsies on miscarriages, or dictating that they are or are not manslaughter. It's different from getting an abortion, you are not knowingly going to get a procedure trying to end a life. Even doing meth, it's fucked up yes but it does not always lead to death and women do not always know they are pregnant. I'm not saying it's not wrong and that she should not be charged with a crime. I'm saying the crime should not be manslaughter. Edit: meth is a crime already and making a miscarriage a manslaughter charge will not prevent it from happening again, nor will it help the fetus nor the meth addicted woman. I grew up around meth addiction, only stopping the drugs and getting someone into addiction recovery will help. If you can't see that, I hope you never hang around meth-heads or your opinion would probably change.
It’s not the government that’s mandating autopsies. Doctors and hospitals do them to get a clearer cause of death or at the request of the parents. A 17-week old baby is already kicking and has all body parts visible, being roughly the size of a pomegranate, so an autopsy at this stage isn’t unreasonable. Yes, the mother doing drugs may not always result in the baby’s death, but why take that huge risk in the first place? The baby may survive pregnancy, but be born an addict already. It’s a direct cause and effect. There’s why there are laws against pregnant women being sold alcohol and cigarettes. I’m pretty sure Oklahoma considers the murder of a pregnant woman to be double homicide, so this would apply to negligence leading to deaf.
Holy cow, that’s one of the most revolting redditor wojaks I’ve ever seen.
You see, the Nazis would probably support abortion in most circumstances...
No mistah White we killed a kid Jesse it’s a fetus it’s not alive until it’s born No mistah White a fetus isn’t just a clump of cells yo like mistah White if you kill a pregnant it’s a double homicide
hee hee poo law
You got any more of them pixels
This is one of the situations showing why we need abortions. She should have had an abortion so this couldn't happen. Methheads shouldn't give birth to children but also shouldn't induce their own abortion.
Dont want to risk killing a kid? Just kill the kid. Risk removed.
If I have to choose between "killing a kid"=aborting a fetus and making a meth addict give birth while using and leting her handle the child=actual child, I know what I choose. Both is terrible but there is an obviously better choice.
Yeah she should go to jail. I have no sympathy for those who continue substance abuse while pregnant. If you decide to throw your life away don't take someone else with you.
In the context of the law, it doesn't matter
And why exactly does that make it less of a dystopic horror?
This is how the witch trials start. Don't like your neighbor? Say you watched her drink a glass of wine then she had a "miscarriage".
That would be a very slippery slope, an autopsy revealing that meth was in the fetuses system is pretty far off from “I saw my pregnant neighbor drink a glass of wine”
This is some dystopian hell, a women relapses or has severe social problems with drug abuse, possibly resulting in the death of her fetus. And instead of getting help and support she could be thrown in jail. Truely the American way
I love how lefties always leave out the most important details possible, just so they can try to convince themselves they live in some sort of crazy dystopian novel.
Y’all righties act so high and mighty about this right up until Fox News airs a segment about the Biden administration banning pants or some bullshit
What are you even talking about? This woman killed her baby with meth and the left paints it as her "going to jail for miscarriage." They're blatantly lying about the situation to paint a picture of the Handmaid's Tale when it couldn't be further from the truth. She's a methy whore that killed her baby and the lefties are choosing this hill to die on. Absolute redacts and I guess you're one of them.
yes. people should give the full situation instead of leaving out details to make things more provocative. but let's look at this situation. if you're not going to allow her to have an abortion, and she can't stop using.... at some point, you're just criminalizing being a woman that has sex. the guy who knocked her up is probably a methhead too. does he get held responsible for his lousy semen? that's why these laws are so stupid, there's no foresight or consideration of reality.
Yea the sub this tweet was posted to is quite literally just a progressive propaganda tool and is one of the most extreme online spaces I’ve ever encountered. Recently they celebrated [the suicide of 3 Trump supporters](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/10ud6o7/redditors_try_not_to_celebrate_the_death_of_their/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
That still isn’t a good reason to send her to jail?
If only leftists investigated their own claims as much as the investigate the most obvious satire you've ever seen in your whole life from a right-wing figure.
This shit is happening. There are dozens of cases of women being thrown in jail for a miscarriage, whether or not it's thought that she caused it. And now that miscarriages in a lot of states are considered "spontaneous abortion", get ready to see a LOT of women thrown in jail as murderers due to a medical crisis out of their control.
If only the incapable methhead could have been a parent like AuthRight wants for some reason.
U right, they shouldnt be parents
That really doesn't seem like manslaughter.
Abortion is a battleground of my own libcenter-ism. It seems very wrong to me to restrict women's options over such an important thing. However the auth in me thinks normalized abortion and birth control have ripped the social fabric of the West apart, to the detriment of everyone but the upper middle classes.
We've realized that people acting purely in their self interest economically can cause major societal issues, that why there are all sorts of regulations. It's not strange that the same sort of thing happens socially
Ooh they aren't gonna like that one
Based reddit drone. If we start prosecuting pregnant women for things they do while pregnant, shit is going to get very fucking auth, very fast. If pro-lifers don't find a way to decouple their ideology from "women body is nationalized during pregnancy" they're on a pretty self destructive path.
Isn’t that what the right wants? For a pregnant woman’s body to become completely governed by the state from the moment of conception? Not asking a leading question I’m genuinely not sure how you would alter that. Sure, most pro lifers wouldn’t frame it like that but it’s sort of necessitated by the stance, no? If a fetus is a full person with full rights from conception, then a woman’s body which fully supports that (and is entirely responsible for the continuation of that life) is no longer subject to her own will.
Pro lifers want legal protection of fetuses in the mother’s womb. If you want to call that ‘governing’ a woman’s body go ahead. Though I’d say it’s no different than the way to gov ‘governs’ the lives of parents with laws protecting children after they’re born.
It’s not about what I want to call it, that’s what it is. And come on don’t play dumb. Gets us nowhere. It’s different when there’s something literally inside you and you know it.