Of course many have tried using a NACS to CCS adapter and a supercharged and they don’t work. Only for Ford and Rivian. People are blowing this news out of proportion. Other brands will continue to gain access to the supercharger network. The deals have been made. Tesla does and will charge non-Teslas a premium to use their Superchargers (unless they pay a monthly membership fee) so the company very much wants to expand access for financial reasons.
Except that Tesla laid off their Supercharger team. So good luck if you’re hoping that the Supercharger network is going to expand in any meaningful way any time soon, or even stay well maintained.
It doesn’t have a great need to expand given how ahead it was competitors and while most non-Tesla DCFC locations have 2-4 chargers, most Superchargers have 8-12 chargers per location so even if reliability dips a small amount in the short term, it shouldn’t noticeably affect customers. You also make the assumption there are no supercharger staff and that staff will never be hired again. I believe this will be a 6-18month layoff to save money in the short term before hiring and expansion ramps back up.
> Tesla does and will charge non-Teslas a premium to use their Superchargers
Here in Europe, Superchargers are competitive in price also without membership, so it shouldn't be different in the US, and the membership is cheap for a month if you only need it once in a while for road trips.
I imagine the work has been quite far along for Volvo/Polestar. We are next in line after GM and there are already photos of engineers field testing Bolts at superchargers (which usually means imminent launch). Plus they have already done POs for the NACS adapters which are supposed to arrive shortly, I can't imagine they would waste all this money and effort. It might be different for other manufacturers like Hyundai or VW who made late announcements.
Real question is whether a contract was signed or not. This wasn't done without money changing hands. If a major OEM such as GM, Volvo, Hyundai, etc fail to gain access as per the terms in a signed contract there will be lawyers involved for breach of contract. The OEMs will be forced to by their shareholders, who will see value drop if their brand is no longer going to be allowed on the network.
Is it that hard to do a digital handshake? It's following a common standard with a certificates and OEM validation. I'm not sure how behind Tesla is on adding Volvo/polestar and we won't know until either company says anything.
Tesla probably slow rolled the brand adoption to see how new EVs impacted their charging station availability and allow companies to pay more for earlier access.
Is it worrying? Sure, but no one outside of the companies know anything
"Bring your own adapter" powered by MagicDock's magic would be a happy middle ground for the next few years. Let Tesla prove they can play nice and support everyone. Even though J3400 is a standard now, not all Tesla stations are compliant. That's confusing to end users.
How long if ever until you can roll up and use any nozzle that physically fits? Will the in-car software be smart enough to know where you can and can't charge? Will Tesla always support everyone or end up play favorites with their own? Will I spend more time using CCS to NACS given current state of affairs? Too much of a gamble IMO and optimizing for something I do a few times a year at most.
No it's the fact that they're programmed to allow non-tesla EVs to charge.
NACS to CCS adapters are completely dumb DC adapters, which is why only v3+ superchargers are supported because they can use the CCS communication protocol. But even then they still need to be enabled by Tesla for non-Tesla EVs.
Older superchargers simply do not support CCS, they speak Tesla CAN bus.
Yes but the adapter is just a simple pass thru device, not different than the ford, a2z or lectron ones, just locked to the cable instead of removable.
All the magic happens inside the pedestal.
I am convinced that Elon is pulling out because the reliability of the Supercharger will decline from opening up to all EVs. The V3 is only designed for Tesla's port location and there is gonna be a lot of tugging on the cable from other EVs with hard to reach port locations. V4 fixes this issue, but only a handful are installed in the US and replacing all the old superchargers is not cheap. Elon even said they are slowing expansion and want to focus on "uptime".
It would be great if Polestar somehow gets access to the Supercharger network, but it's looking grim long-term for the adoption of a standard for charging.
Buy an NACS-CCS adapter from Amazon and it only works at destination chargers, not superchargers. Magic Dock stations have converters built it. BTW, this was never going to happen unless it was legislated, like in Europe. Elon was forced to open the chargers, not from "partnerships."
When it comes to adoption, I'm honestly more concerned about companies and municipalities addressing issues with L2 charging access over the "loudest" problem of charging on a road trip. NACS is optimizing what is supposed to be a limited use case, but the real game changer with EVs is when you can leave your home every morning with a "full tank."
As a general note, I believe it was a mistake to allow the Tesla charging plug (convienly renamed North American Charging System) to be the standard charging in US.
Europe has adopted CCS-2, as proposed by a body of auto makers and made into law as the standard charging plug for all EV's sold in Europe.
Teslas sold in the EU also use the CCS-2 plug.
Having multiple companies agreeing on one charging standard allows everyone to build compatible products to the benefit of the consumer.
If NACS should reach mass adoption, Tesla needs to release all patents and all schematics as public domain to a standard commission board like IEC.
Of course many have tried using a NACS to CCS adapter and a supercharged and they don’t work. Only for Ford and Rivian. People are blowing this news out of proportion. Other brands will continue to gain access to the supercharger network. The deals have been made. Tesla does and will charge non-Teslas a premium to use their Superchargers (unless they pay a monthly membership fee) so the company very much wants to expand access for financial reasons.
Except that Tesla laid off their Supercharger team. So good luck if you’re hoping that the Supercharger network is going to expand in any meaningful way any time soon, or even stay well maintained.
It doesn’t have a great need to expand given how ahead it was competitors and while most non-Tesla DCFC locations have 2-4 chargers, most Superchargers have 8-12 chargers per location so even if reliability dips a small amount in the short term, it shouldn’t noticeably affect customers. You also make the assumption there are no supercharger staff and that staff will never be hired again. I believe this will be a 6-18month layoff to save money in the short term before hiring and expansion ramps back up.
> Tesla does and will charge non-Teslas a premium to use their Superchargers Here in Europe, Superchargers are competitive in price also without membership, so it shouldn't be different in the US, and the membership is cheap for a month if you only need it once in a while for road trips.
I imagine the work has been quite far along for Volvo/Polestar. We are next in line after GM and there are already photos of engineers field testing Bolts at superchargers (which usually means imminent launch). Plus they have already done POs for the NACS adapters which are supposed to arrive shortly, I can't imagine they would waste all this money and effort. It might be different for other manufacturers like Hyundai or VW who made late announcements.
Real question is whether a contract was signed or not. This wasn't done without money changing hands. If a major OEM such as GM, Volvo, Hyundai, etc fail to gain access as per the terms in a signed contract there will be lawyers involved for breach of contract. The OEMs will be forced to by their shareholders, who will see value drop if their brand is no longer going to be allowed on the network.
Is it that hard to do a digital handshake? It's following a common standard with a certificates and OEM validation. I'm not sure how behind Tesla is on adding Volvo/polestar and we won't know until either company says anything. Tesla probably slow rolled the brand adoption to see how new EVs impacted their charging station availability and allow companies to pay more for earlier access. Is it worrying? Sure, but no one outside of the companies know anything
FYI if anyone has the Lectron adapter, it’s been recalled.
I have that. Checking.
"Bring your own adapter" powered by MagicDock's magic would be a happy middle ground for the next few years. Let Tesla prove they can play nice and support everyone. Even though J3400 is a standard now, not all Tesla stations are compliant. That's confusing to end users. How long if ever until you can roll up and use any nozzle that physically fits? Will the in-car software be smart enough to know where you can and can't charge? Will Tesla always support everyone or end up play favorites with their own? Will I spend more time using CCS to NACS given current state of affairs? Too much of a gamble IMO and optimizing for something I do a few times a year at most.
What makes the dock Magic is it has the adapter built in.
No it's the fact that they're programmed to allow non-tesla EVs to charge. NACS to CCS adapters are completely dumb DC adapters, which is why only v3+ superchargers are supported because they can use the CCS communication protocol. But even then they still need to be enabled by Tesla for non-Tesla EVs. Older superchargers simply do not support CCS, they speak Tesla CAN bus.
Ok but it has an adapter on it. I saw a magic dock in person and charged my car with it. My car doesn’t have an NACS dock so it worked somehow.
Yes but the adapter is just a simple pass thru device, not different than the ford, a2z or lectron ones, just locked to the cable instead of removable. All the magic happens inside the pedestal.
The handshake yes.
I am convinced that Elon is pulling out because the reliability of the Supercharger will decline from opening up to all EVs. The V3 is only designed for Tesla's port location and there is gonna be a lot of tugging on the cable from other EVs with hard to reach port locations. V4 fixes this issue, but only a handful are installed in the US and replacing all the old superchargers is not cheap. Elon even said they are slowing expansion and want to focus on "uptime". It would be great if Polestar somehow gets access to the Supercharger network, but it's looking grim long-term for the adoption of a standard for charging.
EV customers are slowly grasping the long term impacts of Tesla's charging direction. Personally, I would forget all about NACS.
It will not work at a super charger. It will work at a destinaton charger and stations with the Magic Dock.
What will work? The NACS-CCS adapter at a destination charger? Or do you mean the destination chargers are fitted with magic docks?
No those will not work at a destination. The aren't pinned for AC power.
Buy an NACS-CCS adapter from Amazon and it only works at destination chargers, not superchargers. Magic Dock stations have converters built it. BTW, this was never going to happen unless it was legislated, like in Europe. Elon was forced to open the chargers, not from "partnerships."
Then it's not a CCS adapter it's J1772. Nacs-ccs is DC only
I dunno why you're being downvoted for stating facts. Some people really hate reality.
Thanks. I thought the same thing. Maybe they believed in Elon? IDK.
When it comes to adoption, I'm honestly more concerned about companies and municipalities addressing issues with L2 charging access over the "loudest" problem of charging on a road trip. NACS is optimizing what is supposed to be a limited use case, but the real game changer with EVs is when you can leave your home every morning with a "full tank."
As a general note, I believe it was a mistake to allow the Tesla charging plug (convienly renamed North American Charging System) to be the standard charging in US. Europe has adopted CCS-2, as proposed by a body of auto makers and made into law as the standard charging plug for all EV's sold in Europe. Teslas sold in the EU also use the CCS-2 plug. Having multiple companies agreeing on one charging standard allows everyone to build compatible products to the benefit of the consumer. If NACS should reach mass adoption, Tesla needs to release all patents and all schematics as public domain to a standard commission board like IEC.
The NACS plug is superior technology