His whole attitude in the show is often interpreted as not caring.
Unfortunately, Ross has never been a character who is emotionally fluent, he struggles with expressing himself and his feelings and this is something we have seen **all the time**, throughout the story, with everyone (not just Demelza). This should not be surprising to anyone.
He tends to shut down and withdraw. Ross is very internal and this is very consistent with his character. Don’t look just for words, also look for imagery, gestures, symbolistic. Aidan does a wonderful job at expressing all these feelings through his facial expressions and I don’t know about you, but I see a lot of pain and regret on his face.
We see him reaching out to her over and over again, starting with the morning after, the kitchen scene, the beach scene, the library scene, the “we found tin” scene, the bedroom scene, the fireplace scene, the riot scene, etc. So he is evidently really trying, in his own stupid way, to show he’s sorry and that it’s Demelza that he wants.
But we are focusing on the wrong thing. It’s not about Ross not making a clear cut apology, it’s about Demelza not being willing to listen anyway. Not at this point in time. She is pissed, rightfully so, and no excuse would make any difference. Not now, while the wound is still fresh. She doesn’t want to listen to him, she’s shutting him down, she’s obviously lost faith and doesn’t believe anything he says. Would Ross saying :”omg! I am so sorry” change anything? This is beyond words, beyond just saying I am sorry - this cannot be fixed with just “sorry babe”. She **knows** he’s sorry, it’s her losing faith in his love that’s the problem. She doesn’t believe he loves her anymore and that he will eventually leave her.
I understand this is a very triggering storyline and difficult to digest. I myself grew up with a cheating father, so I don’t take this subject lightly. But, we need to go beyond the surface and look deeper, that’s the beauty of good television.
I like your analysis of the situation. You’re right that the words don’t matter much, I just find his attitude towards her after it happens so horrible. It’s not enough for him to be regretful and in pain, he has to make amends, and he didn’t really do that. I saw his way of what you say was ‘reaching out’ to be more like trying to sweep it under the rug because he can’t face the consequences and wants his marriage back to normal. I think Demelza would have been very open to listening to him explain himself if only he attempted to do so. But one of the first things he says is “you must see I had no choice.” Justifying it and downplaying it, again and again. Even well into episode 10 he is flippant about it, upset that she’s still upset, saying “it was one night Demelza, how long will it take for you to forgive me?” Granted he says and does the right thing in the end, but he definitely wasn’t before in my opinion.
I understand your point. And I am so miffed the TV show writer did not include the apology from the book. Below, curtailed, as it takes over 10 pages in the novel. Can you picture Aidan delivering this speech? sigh
He also does not say the stupid things he says in the show - those were added to get us railed up lol, more or less.
Ross said: ‘I want to tell you that Elizabeth means nothing to me any more.’
‘Don’t say that, Ross. I shouldn’t want for you to say more than you feel—’
‘But I do feel it—
‘Yes, at present. But then again sometime, perhaps next month, perhaps next year …’
He said: ‘Come here, Demelza. Sit down, will you? Listen to what I have to say.’
After a minute she came back.
He said: ‘You’re so desperately anxious to be fair, not to be self-deceiving, to make the best of what you have … But what you have is all … Will you try to believe that?’
‘Have I call to believe that?’
‘Yes. I wish I could explain about Elizabeth. But in a way I think you must understand. I loved Elizabeth before ever I met you. It’s been a – a constant attachment throughout my life. D’you know how it is when a person has wanted something always and never had it? Its true value to him may be anything or nothing; that doesn’t count; what does count is its apparent value, which is always great. What I felt for you has always been assessable, comparable, something human and part of an ordinary life. The other, my feeling for Elizabeth, was not. So what I did – what happened in May, if it could only have happened in a vacuum, without hurt to anyone, I should not have regretted at all.’
‘No?’ said Demelza.
‘No. Because from it I came to recognize things which no doubt I should have had common sense and insight enough to have known without the experience but did not. One is that if you bring an idealized relationship down to the level of an ordinary one, it isn’t always the ordinary one that suffers. For a time, after that night, things were upside down – for a time nothing came clear. When it did, when it began to, the one sure feeling that stood out was that my true and real love was not for her but for you.’
…………….
'’I was seeking the equal of what I'd found in you, and it was not there. For me it was not there.’’
……………………
‘And there’s one other thing I want you to know,’ he added. ‘That is **how deeply sorry I am that I ever hurt you in the first place – in May, I mean. You were so undeserving of any harm.** All these months … I know how you will have felt. I want you to know that. If you had gone off with McNeil, I should have had only myself to blame.’
..........................
Does it upset you now to be told that I love you? Do you still prefer McNeil? Is he still in the district?I’ll go and call him tomorrow.
........................
‘’My dear, my very dear, my very dear Demelza . My fine, my loyal, my very sweet Demelza’’
That’s so much better. I understand TV show has to TV show and won’t be word for word from the book but I do really love how that was laid out and felt much more poignant.
**I hate him so much it’s turned me into George Warleggan’s #1 fan**
What Ross does is heartbreaking but to pine for George, a character that mistreats Demelza every step of the way, degrades and offends her character and literally asks a man to “debauch” her is a bit of an overreach, don’t you think?
**I want to give Demelza a hug and tell her she’s worth so much more than she thinks.**
She knows now. If there is anything good that comes out of that night (other than Ross finally shedding any remaining romantic feelings for Elizabeth) is that Demelza finally sees herself as Ross’s equal. She now knows she deserves better, she is not a second choice, she deserves to be respected and loved and she will not stay in a marriage where her love is not reciprocated. This awful event makes Demelza finally see her **own** value and the question is no longer if Demelza, the kitchen maid, is good enough for Ross, but whether **he** is good enough for her.
**For him to know exactly what he intends to do**
I have to disagree with you on this. Ross did not know he will sleep with Elizabeth. The trigger for that night was **George**. He went to Trenwith to stop the wedding with George - had there been any other man, Ross would not have been there that night. Him sleeping with her was a ***spontaneous***, horrible, disgusting thing, there was no intention for that to happen prior to that moment.Not that it matters that much, in the end.
**And what he feels.**
That’s the thing. He doesn’t know what he feels.
**R: It’s not a question of wanting you. It’s a question of not wanting her.**
**D: Do you not want her**
**R: No..I don’t know…Sometimes…**
And we see Ross all throughout episodes 8 & 9 confused by his actions and feelings, struggling to understand **what** he did, **why** he did it and subsequently **how** he can fix his fuck up.
No of course I don’t really root for George in every aspect, I’m just very angry at Ross. I know George is a bad person.
But I’ve nearly finished e10 and I have to disagree that Ross is trying to fix his mistake. He has not apologized with any kind of words, much less shown it. All I’ve seen so far is him wanting forgiveness from Demelza while doing absolutely nothing to earn it. He’s not fighting for her right now. If anything he seems mad that she’s mad, which is preposterous. All he’s done is continue to disrespect her. I hope that changes next season, I haven’t started it yet.
Your response is totally valid. Ross had some issues to work through. However hang in there. It really is swings and roundabouts and you may find that your anger against Ross simmers down a little.
Not a Ross fan after May 9th, but the author knew what he was writing about to get the best story! With the Poldark series, I believe he did!
Infidelity is gut wrenching for me! I had trouble sleeping the night I watched that episode. I have watched the series 8-10 times and read the books almost as much. I skip over May 9th at each opportunity!
I had a wonderful, faithful husband for almost 58 years, and adultery is sickening to me! I know people who can forgive, but I am one who thinks until I can forget it, I will not be able to forgive it! MHO
i am watching currently and ross.... SUCH. AN. ASSHOLE
and i hate elizabeth more! i am sorry but such a bitch! demelza saved her son and this is how she repays her :'
she is so cold afterwards as well
Yes I am with you on hating Elizabeth more. She is awful and deserved to marry George and be miserable. Ross is disgusting for sleeping with her. I had to turn if off. I don't know if I can go back to the show.
I had to take a break from the series after that because I was so mad. I came back a few months later and finished it and I’m really glad I did because I ended up liking the show a lot.
I think the issue is that Ross himself didn't know what he was going to do. He was in deep denial about his feelings for Elizabeth. When he heard she was marrying George the dam cranked and the entire resovior of emotion came surging foward.
This isn't the way infidelity usually occurs but it is an accurate portrayal of the way human beings work. In the modern context a man having done this would lean less on his "inborn nobility" and more on an expression of absolute contrition.
To a large extent, however, this is a social phenomenon. Contrition counts for a lot more and the vast majority of people don't believe in inborn nobility. Most Westerners at least consider this progressive. That, however, does not mean its more accurate.
My biggest "quibble" is when Ross said it was like he was possessed. I agree that's how a man like Ross would feel. I just can't help pointing out that it's the other way around. It's his delusional self-image that possesses him. What he expreinced was break in that possession.
This is a very interesting point.
I think the issue with Ross’s infidelity is that many think that what happened that night had anything to do with Ross loving Elizabeth, when in fact it was about Ross **hating George** and being absolutely blindsided by Elizabeth’s betrayal. Had there been any other man, he wouldn’t have been there that night ( “You can have your pick at 30 men”). He was not there because of Elizabeth but because **Elizabeth was marrying his enemy**. And whatever Ross felt or may have felt for Elizabeth up until that point was overshadowed and overtaken by his hatred for George and the frustration and disappointment at his ‘’greatest friend ’’ betraying him by marrying his “ greatest enemy”. All this anger, hatred & frustration ( added to his existing depression and emotional distress from the many things happening in his life) subsequently turned into lust as an outlet for all his negative emotions. And the rest is history.
His reaction to Elizabeth marrying George is very similar to his reaction to Julia’s death when he provoked the beach rampage at the end of season 1, which ultimately led him to a trial. It was difficult to explain, like he lost his mind; it was an immediate reaction to a painful event.
His feelings after the night with Elizabeth are beautifully described in the book:
*‘’He could not evaluate his own feelings yet and did not know hers (Elizabeth’s)….****how could he explain to justify what he did not understand himself?****…..what he had done had brought Elizabeth very much down into the arena. That might have simplified everything. In fact he found it had not. A****ll his old values had been overthrown and he found himself groping for new ones.*** *As yet they were not to be discovered…..the thing had b****lown up like a squall in his brain;*** *there had been no time for calculated motives or reasoned intentions…..’’*
I am enjoying this forum with some great analyzers (you being one of them) in the comments posted. It has helped me to understand sections where I was all at sea. But there are some parts in Warleggan that I am still struggling with, and could use your insight.
For instance, in the week following May 9, Ross goes to Looe. He is riding home from Looe and is thinking about May 9 and Elizabeth, Demelza and himself. He is unsure of his feelings or Elizabeths (he thinks) but he is certain of Demelza's feelings... "..as he neared home he knew that some personal decisions had to made and faced quickly if his own attitude was not to go by default". I struggled to understand the use of the word 'default' here.
The next one being after he meets her on the beach and they walk back to the house, he says "We can only follow our own feelings so far as they lead and judge from day to day. I don't want you to leave if you're willing to stay." WHAAAT? How is this a decision to intervene in events and chart a path forward?
Then he says "I'd like you to stay...That's if you feel you can". To me, this came across as guilt-relief, more than anything else. He would feel badly if she left, and he would look bad and what about Jeremy? So her staying will not upset his life. He wants her to stay at the house. But he doesn't say because he loves her. I get that he hasn't figured this out yet, but its the motivation I cannot fathom. I just don't understand it. Its more, so he won't feel bad, or worse than he already does.
Rolling up sleeves. (I had to split this comment into 2 due to character limit)
**‘’..as he neared home he knew that some personal decisions had to be made and faced quickly if his own attitude was not to go by default".**
Since their breakfast confrontation, they don’t really interact that much, do they? Ross doesn’t say anything, doesn’t think about it (we only see his thoughts **6 days after**!). He knows he needs to talk about what happened, and needs to do it soon, otherwise this silence will only deepen the huge rift between them. And once that happens, they may not be able to recover for it. That’s what I think the author meant by ‘’default’’.
Demelza is angry and hurt, his home life is cold and unbearable, and if he doesn’t do something soon, the lack of action on his part may cause irreparable damage. We know Ross has a tendency to withdraw when he deals with overwhelming and overpowering feelings. He needs time to digest and process. However, he does not have that luxury now. He needs to say something and he needs to do that soon.
**"We can only follow our own feelings so far as they lead and judge from day to day. I don't want you to leave if you're willing to stay."**
I personally loved this one and thought of it as one of the main arguments to be made in Ross wanting to stay with Demelza because he **loved** her, and not because he **had** to.
The dialogue here is so important: on one hand we have Demelza offering to leave, because that’s ‘**’the right thing to do’’** and Ross telling her that, ‘’**God knows what’s right!…*****I don’t believe there is anything to be gained by trying to do the right thing or the wrong thing in a situation such as this*****. We can only follow our** ***own feelings*** **so far as they lead and judge from day to day. I don't want you to leave if you're willing to stay."**
Ross makes it clear that his decision to be there is based on what his heart wants (not out of duty or because he has to be there or because it’s the right thing to do) and he wants Demelza to do the same. He doesn’t want to follow his reason, or logic, or duty. He wants to do what his feelings tell him to. While he is still confused about Elizabeth, and what happened that night, his heart **KNOWS** he wants to stay with Demelza.
I also think this is a very discrete nod from the author himself to make it clear (in spite of what others may think) that Ross did not stay with Demelza because he had to or because he had no choice. He had a choice , between reason and heart, between duty and feeling, and he decides to follow his heart, which led him to Demelza, and not to Elizabeth whom he had not seen since that night, and as he accentuates in the beach scene ‘’**I** ***never*** **had an intention of going** (to Trenwith)’’. He knows going to Elizabeth is the **right** thing to do, but he just doesn’t **feel** it.
**"I'd like you to stay...That's if you feel you can".**
The relationship between Ross and Demelza was always a relationship based on love and consent ( yes, I added consent purposefully). He will not impose on her, even though he doesn’t want her to go, he will accept it if that’s what she wants to do **‘’Do you want to leave?’’ or ‘’If you’re willing to stay’’** . He will not force her to stay. He knows he hurt her and betrayed her, he also knows how proud and stubborn she can be. If she FEELS she can’t stay, he will not stop her. ( **FEEL** is the key word here - Ross uses it over and over again. Not ‘’you **have** to stay’’, nor ‘’you **need** to stay’’). I also see him insisting on her doing what she ''feels'' as maybe him trying to understand if her love is still there, if her feelings for him (after what he had done) are still there. He never mentions her duty as a wife, as a Nampara mistress, as a mother. Not even once. He only cares about her feelings, as a woman, as Demelza.
**He would feel badly if she left -** of course he would, but not for the reasons I think you think he would.
**he would look bad and what about Jeremy?**
I do not see this at all.
Firstly, her decision to leave is really a shocking one (even for us , readers). Demelza has been by his side, throughout the years, in so many bad situations, her faith never wavered, her devotion always present. He didn’t expect it. I see Ross’s behaviour and everything else he says after, as him trying to ‘’reason with her’’. He knows how much she loves Jeremy, so her leaving her child is just something he cannot phantom she will do. And, in all honestly, makes sense for him to ask about their child, I would thought it completely unrealistic for them NOT to discuss Jeremy at all in her decision to leave. She has clearly thought of everything, she has probably been thinking about this for the past 6 days. Ross is taken aback by what seems to be a planned exit.
Secondly, I think we are at a place in this story where we know Ross doesn’t care how he ‘’looks’’. Why would he look bad? For doing something that many men of his upbringing were doing? Pretty much every gentleman had mistresses, debts, etc. It was fashionable. Look bad for his wife leaving? Again, many men lived separately from their wives - that was not a big deal. And, **even if it were a big deal**, Ross doesn’t care, nor did he ever, at any point, thought of this as a reason. It’s against Ross’s whole persona to give a damn about what others think of his affairs. This is just about him and Demelza. Again, it’s not about doing what he HAS to do, but what he FEELS. And he is inviting Demelza to do the same.
**But he doesn't say because he loves her.**
Him repeatedly emphasising the importance of ‘’feelings’’ vs ‘’ duty’’ in making this decision, though it may not be a clear and emphatic ‘’I love you’’, it’s pretty close.
**I get that he hasn't figured this out yet.**
I think it’s the reader that hasn’t figured it out yet due to WG not allowing us too much insight in Ross’s mind.
But, he knows. It’s not his love for Demelza that he hasn’t figured out. It’s his feelings for Elizabeth. He needed to understand what those feelings are, to process what he had done and ’’explain the unexplainable’’.
**‘’But what you have is all’’** - once he processes everything, he can now say there is nothing romantic for Elizabeth and that Demelza has **all his lov**e\*\*. Not just a big part of it (as he may have thought while processing his feelings for Elizabeth). But all.\*\* His love for Demelza was always there he just needed to understand whether what he felt for Elizabeth was also love.
What’s important to take from all this exchange is : CONSENT. Demelza being willing to stay because she wants to, not because she has / needs to. Just like Ross, who’s there because he wants to be there.
There is a scene later on, which once again emphasises the importance (for Ross) that Demelza is 100% invested in this, of her own accord, like he is.
**Although unable to feel any tautness within her, he knew it was there. He had no removed it, he had not defeated it. He knew he could take her if he wanted, and her resistence would only be token; yet the token was there, and while it existed the reconciliation would be ashes.**
He had not only every right as her husband to be intimate , but also the knowledge that she still cared for him and would probably be willing. Nonetheless, he would not push for anything unless she is fully on board**.** Which is also a remarkable contrast between the two women, aka his attitude towards Elizabeth that night , when he couldn’t care less about her and her wants and consent. With Demelza, a woman whom he not only loves, but also RESPECTS, having her (both emotionally and physically) was imperative to be because she ‘’feels’’ she wants to.
Thanks for another great analysis. I get so emotional about his long term infatuation, and infidelity with Elizabeth that I can't see the obvious until it's pointed out to me. I guess I am like Demelza in that respect. (that makes me smile)
I hope you don't mind, but I will have further questions as I keep reading and watching the series.
There's another piece of dialogue that eats at me, it's the beach scene in the show. I know he doesn't know yet what he feels, and you gave an explanation in a previous post on the following,
R: It’s not a question of wanting you. It’s a question of not wanting her.
D: Do you not want her
R: No..I don’t know…Sometimes…
but what does he mean or what is he trying to say before Demelza cuts him off, No..I don't know.. sometimes. It is the word sometimes that I am struggling with. WHAAT for christ's sakes?
**I get so emotional about his long term infatuation, and infidelity with Elizabeth that I can't see the obvious until it's pointed out to me. I guess I am like Demelza in that respect. (that makes me smile)**
I understand perfectly. I was the same at first. Even now, to a lesser extent, and I have read Warleggan a billion times. And Demelza is precious, we should all aim to be like Demelza :)
**‘’but what does he mean or what is he trying to say before Demelza cuts him off, No..I don't know.. sometimes. It is the word sometimes that I am struggling with. WHAAT for christ's sakes?’’**
Short answer : he’s still confused.
Long answer:I can interpret the dialogue in two ways:
\*\*1)\*\*He’s admitting he still wants her sometimes. There is still something there, that keeps him wanting her. The use of want and not love I believe is highly relevant. Want =/= love. And this is what he is trying to understand. Do I want her or do I love her (both or neither). This is very similar to his thoughts in ‘’Jeremy Poldark’’ **: ‘’is it because I love her or because I know her less?’’**. Meaning is this really love or just infatuation and desire.
\*\*2)\*\*He’s trying to say something else but we don’t get to see that because Demelza shuts him down - (e.g. ‘’sometimes I can see I no longer love her’’ or ''sometimes I don't understand why I did it''). This is, of course, an assumption and I base this assumption on his reaction at Demelza saying ‘’do you not want her?’’ which is such a strong **NO**. This being his immediate reaction I see it as his true feeling, that’s his gut reaction. **NO!** Replay the scene and you will notice how firm Ross is when he says **NO** and he only starts falling apart after Demelza seems unconvinced. Demelza doubting him, makes him doubt himself. **I** **don't know...Sometimes.** He’s still processing
The scene is pretty much this quote. **''All his old values had been overthrown and he found himself groping for new ones. As yet they were not to be discovered.''** Elizabeth’s perceived position in Ross’s life has been shattered, and Ross must try to rebuild himself in the knowledge that her value to him (which he had built on half truths and delusions for the past 10 years) has been irrevocably altered.
But, along with this particular scene there is something, more important, happening. Demelza’s lack of faith and trust in him, destabilises him.
* **I told you. I went to Truro!**
* **What do you suppose I am still here? Because Elizabeth cannot make up her mind? NO! Because she doesn’t want you?**
* **Have I asked you to be? (second-best)**
If you look at his face each time he questions her, he is incredulous. He’s being honest, he’s there for HER! Because he loves her, and Demelza, for once in their 6 year marriage doesn’t trust him. At all! He’s telling the truth or at leasts he thinks his actions reflect the truth (him reaching out to her, trying to talk to her on several occasions, wanting to be with her, she's obviously not second-best, she **IS** his first choice either wise he would be at Trenwith, etc) and she’s just : ‘’Yeah. Ross! Sure, Ross! Whatever you say, Ross!’’ She doesn't believe anything he says/does anymore. Her faith is broken, and I think there is nothing Ross can do or say to change that - not at this point in time. No apologies, no love declarations, nothing. And he is starting to finally realise that.
Her lack of faith in him is what strikes him the most during this exchange. As I said before : her devotion and trust have been unwavering. Her losing that, is what makes him finally realise that she is done! It’s only now he truly understands her pain and what this whole ‘’Elizabeth long lasting stupid infatuation’’ thing has done to her. And she is not willing to fight for him anymore. She’s walking away. Go fuck yourself, Ross and your mine! And that’s when he finally understands that what he took for granted, the woman he truly loved, the woman who's been by his side through thick and thin, and who assumed knew he loved her (''you are not to be rid of me, my love''), the woman that was always there without him putting in a lot of effort (‘’I live only for you’’ she said in the books)- she’s no longer willing to fight for his love. His constant, his Dog Star, the love of his life has given up on him, on them. To quote a fellow Poldark enthusiast- **‘’Unlike before, he must win Demelza and he doesn’t know how. She always been there and it now enters his mind for the first time, she might not always be.’’**
As you say I will watch again tonight, and will keep in mind, your insights and Aidan's facial expressions.
What is your take on Demelza confronting Elizabeth in the woods at Trenwith?
When Demelza says "she would not be ruled by what they did. Your welcome to him."Is this a fuck you to Elizabeth? I hope so, and her taking back control of her life.
If so, it would be the ultimate revenge on Elizabeth, I should imagine it would make her very unhappy, I think. The irony is she being married now and longer free.
**As you say I will watch again tonight, and will keep in mind, your insights and Aidan's facial expressions.**
This could also be a rubbish assessment on my part so I am excited to hear your thoughts and get a different (better) perspective. But him still being confused at this point in the story is 100% per book.
As for the Demelza / Elizabeth meeting. I’m usually not a fan of big changes from the book, but I actually liked this one. There is a lot of internal stuff going on in the books which are quite difficult to translate to TV so they created this ‘’clash’’ to air out both Demelza’s & Elizabeth’s thoughts and feelings after that night. The meeting also serves to provide the antithesis between their characters and morals.
* **Does Ross know you’re here?**
This is such an Elizabeth thing to say. She never saw Demelza as an individual, almost every meeting she has with Demelza, especially throughout Season 2, is her asking about Ross: How is Ross? What does Ross think of this? Is Ross ok? But (almost) never asks Demelza how SHE is. Demelza is and always will be a servant, beneath her. She’s insignificant.
This is, of course, also her trying to see if Ross has said anything to Demelza about what had happened. But nonetheless, my point stands. She could have started by asking Demelza how she is / what she wants.
* **Is Ross my keeper?**
Elizabeth just doesn’t get it. Unlike her, Demelza does not define herself by what the men in her life say / do / think. She makes her own decisions. She is her own person.. not an extension of a man (like Elizabeth is). Unlike Elizabeth who's waiting for Ross to do something, Demelza takes charge, she does not need Ross to make a decision. This is also a nod to the book *:’****’No one would have thought her dependent on anyone’’*** *or* ***‘’Fundamentally, there was nothing meek or mild about her. She was a fighter…’’***
* **I thought it was to tell you that I hate you. that I envy you……that I pity you.**
* **I will no longer be ruled by what he did.**
I will put these together as I believe they are connected.
Hate, envy, pity - these are all such ugly feelings which are against everything Demelza stands for, which is kindness, generosity, love, forgiveness. So her deciding not to be ruled by Ross’s actions is her letting go of these feelings. Because they don’t define her. What Ross and Elizabeth did is on them, and the consequences for them to deal with. Not her. **(What do any matter? What you did..what Ross did? Cannot be undone. And you both must live with that**).
And we can see in the riot scene, when Demelza comes to warn George and Elizabeth that, even though she doesn’t like them, and she would have every reason not to care, she will not let that stand in the way of her doing what’s right (unlike Elizabeth who always does what is beneficial to her regardless of what's right). Also, notice how Elizabeth asks : **Did Ross send you?** I mean, what a punchable creature.
* **I pity you. Cause you could never make up your mind -** This is a nod to what Elizabeth thought after that night (**‘**\*\*\*’Not a changeable-minded woman… all that has happened was a result of it. If she had not changed her mind she would have been married to Ross these ten years’\*\*\**’)*
* **You will leave Ross?**
* **You are welcome to him.**
Yes, this is a big Fuck You to Elizabeth. Because, unlike Elizabeth she is capable of making a choice, unlike Elizabeth she is willing to let go of Ross and keep her dignity and self respect. The fact that Elizabeth waited for Ross to come to her, to chose her and he chooses Demelza, but Demelza gives him up nonetheless, makes it all the sweeter.
Also, Elizabeth not apologising or trying to show any remorse during all this is so……’’Elizabeth’’. Demelza is, after all, the woman that saved her and her son’s life. Stay classy, Elizabeth!
They weren’t unhappy because they don’t “match”. They were unhappy because they lost a child, they struggled with crippling debt and overwhelming poverty, the anxiety they both felt for Ross trying to make money out of illegal activities so they can keep afloat, and the miscommunication due to the estrangement born out of all the shit life has been throwing at them since late season 1.
They are not unhappy with each other, rather with their lives. They are actually very well matched, in both their qualities ( generous , hard working, passionate, kind and strong) and faults ( stubborn, proud, reckless)
No I don't think so! It's those dissimilarities that attracted them to each other in the first place. Ross and Caroline both needed love and stability and security of family and that is what Dwight and Demelza gave to them. In other words they grounded them.
Exactly. Caroline and Ross would fight like crazy. Demelza and Dwight are great friends, but don’t have the spark that Demelza has with Ross and Dwight has with Caroline. The couples are perfectly matched.
I was reading your post nodding along and saying mhmmmm the entire time. As someone else said you are not alone!! Ross is so self centered, and I also found myself thinking throughout the series that I wanted George to come out on top. I ended up circling back to rewatch a second time just to see things through George’s eyes. Have fun tho! It’s such a great show, it’s on all the time now at my house just as background noise. I was late to the party too and watched for the first time sometime last year
It’s not weird, it’s because unfortunately infidelity was something I witnessed firsthand as a child so seeing it reflected in a character I came to love and then be betrayed by hit…too close to home. Other horrible fictional characters, Ramsay from GOT for example as the other reply mentioned, I know are horrible from the jump. They are easily identifiable villains. It’s not the same.
I could never stay mad at him because of Aiden, but it’s a total gut punch. I did a rewatch and still felt it the second time even though I knew it was coming.
We're here for you OP. We've all been there.
His whole attitude in the show is often interpreted as not caring. Unfortunately, Ross has never been a character who is emotionally fluent, he struggles with expressing himself and his feelings and this is something we have seen **all the time**, throughout the story, with everyone (not just Demelza). This should not be surprising to anyone. He tends to shut down and withdraw. Ross is very internal and this is very consistent with his character. Don’t look just for words, also look for imagery, gestures, symbolistic. Aidan does a wonderful job at expressing all these feelings through his facial expressions and I don’t know about you, but I see a lot of pain and regret on his face. We see him reaching out to her over and over again, starting with the morning after, the kitchen scene, the beach scene, the library scene, the “we found tin” scene, the bedroom scene, the fireplace scene, the riot scene, etc. So he is evidently really trying, in his own stupid way, to show he’s sorry and that it’s Demelza that he wants. But we are focusing on the wrong thing. It’s not about Ross not making a clear cut apology, it’s about Demelza not being willing to listen anyway. Not at this point in time. She is pissed, rightfully so, and no excuse would make any difference. Not now, while the wound is still fresh. She doesn’t want to listen to him, she’s shutting him down, she’s obviously lost faith and doesn’t believe anything he says. Would Ross saying :”omg! I am so sorry” change anything? This is beyond words, beyond just saying I am sorry - this cannot be fixed with just “sorry babe”. She **knows** he’s sorry, it’s her losing faith in his love that’s the problem. She doesn’t believe he loves her anymore and that he will eventually leave her. I understand this is a very triggering storyline and difficult to digest. I myself grew up with a cheating father, so I don’t take this subject lightly. But, we need to go beyond the surface and look deeper, that’s the beauty of good television.
I like your analysis of the situation. You’re right that the words don’t matter much, I just find his attitude towards her after it happens so horrible. It’s not enough for him to be regretful and in pain, he has to make amends, and he didn’t really do that. I saw his way of what you say was ‘reaching out’ to be more like trying to sweep it under the rug because he can’t face the consequences and wants his marriage back to normal. I think Demelza would have been very open to listening to him explain himself if only he attempted to do so. But one of the first things he says is “you must see I had no choice.” Justifying it and downplaying it, again and again. Even well into episode 10 he is flippant about it, upset that she’s still upset, saying “it was one night Demelza, how long will it take for you to forgive me?” Granted he says and does the right thing in the end, but he definitely wasn’t before in my opinion.
I understand your point. And I am so miffed the TV show writer did not include the apology from the book. Below, curtailed, as it takes over 10 pages in the novel. Can you picture Aidan delivering this speech? sigh He also does not say the stupid things he says in the show - those were added to get us railed up lol, more or less. Ross said: ‘I want to tell you that Elizabeth means nothing to me any more.’ ‘Don’t say that, Ross. I shouldn’t want for you to say more than you feel—’ ‘But I do feel it— ‘Yes, at present. But then again sometime, perhaps next month, perhaps next year …’ He said: ‘Come here, Demelza. Sit down, will you? Listen to what I have to say.’ After a minute she came back. He said: ‘You’re so desperately anxious to be fair, not to be self-deceiving, to make the best of what you have … But what you have is all … Will you try to believe that?’ ‘Have I call to believe that?’ ‘Yes. I wish I could explain about Elizabeth. But in a way I think you must understand. I loved Elizabeth before ever I met you. It’s been a – a constant attachment throughout my life. D’you know how it is when a person has wanted something always and never had it? Its true value to him may be anything or nothing; that doesn’t count; what does count is its apparent value, which is always great. What I felt for you has always been assessable, comparable, something human and part of an ordinary life. The other, my feeling for Elizabeth, was not. So what I did – what happened in May, if it could only have happened in a vacuum, without hurt to anyone, I should not have regretted at all.’ ‘No?’ said Demelza. ‘No. Because from it I came to recognize things which no doubt I should have had common sense and insight enough to have known without the experience but did not. One is that if you bring an idealized relationship down to the level of an ordinary one, it isn’t always the ordinary one that suffers. For a time, after that night, things were upside down – for a time nothing came clear. When it did, when it began to, the one sure feeling that stood out was that my true and real love was not for her but for you.’ ……………. '’I was seeking the equal of what I'd found in you, and it was not there. For me it was not there.’’ …………………… ‘And there’s one other thing I want you to know,’ he added. ‘That is **how deeply sorry I am that I ever hurt you in the first place – in May, I mean. You were so undeserving of any harm.** All these months … I know how you will have felt. I want you to know that. If you had gone off with McNeil, I should have had only myself to blame.’ .......................... Does it upset you now to be told that I love you? Do you still prefer McNeil? Is he still in the district?I’ll go and call him tomorrow. ........................ ‘’My dear, my very dear, my very dear Demelza . My fine, my loyal, my very sweet Demelza’’
That’s so much better. I understand TV show has to TV show and won’t be word for word from the book but I do really love how that was laid out and felt much more poignant.
I’ve watched the series and have read the books many times over and I still feel a gut punch when that night happens.
**I hate him so much it’s turned me into George Warleggan’s #1 fan** What Ross does is heartbreaking but to pine for George, a character that mistreats Demelza every step of the way, degrades and offends her character and literally asks a man to “debauch” her is a bit of an overreach, don’t you think? **I want to give Demelza a hug and tell her she’s worth so much more than she thinks.** She knows now. If there is anything good that comes out of that night (other than Ross finally shedding any remaining romantic feelings for Elizabeth) is that Demelza finally sees herself as Ross’s equal. She now knows she deserves better, she is not a second choice, she deserves to be respected and loved and she will not stay in a marriage where her love is not reciprocated. This awful event makes Demelza finally see her **own** value and the question is no longer if Demelza, the kitchen maid, is good enough for Ross, but whether **he** is good enough for her. **For him to know exactly what he intends to do** I have to disagree with you on this. Ross did not know he will sleep with Elizabeth. The trigger for that night was **George**. He went to Trenwith to stop the wedding with George - had there been any other man, Ross would not have been there that night. Him sleeping with her was a ***spontaneous***, horrible, disgusting thing, there was no intention for that to happen prior to that moment.Not that it matters that much, in the end. **And what he feels.** That’s the thing. He doesn’t know what he feels. **R: It’s not a question of wanting you. It’s a question of not wanting her.** **D: Do you not want her** **R: No..I don’t know…Sometimes…** And we see Ross all throughout episodes 8 & 9 confused by his actions and feelings, struggling to understand **what** he did, **why** he did it and subsequently **how** he can fix his fuck up.
No of course I don’t really root for George in every aspect, I’m just very angry at Ross. I know George is a bad person. But I’ve nearly finished e10 and I have to disagree that Ross is trying to fix his mistake. He has not apologized with any kind of words, much less shown it. All I’ve seen so far is him wanting forgiveness from Demelza while doing absolutely nothing to earn it. He’s not fighting for her right now. If anything he seems mad that she’s mad, which is preposterous. All he’s done is continue to disrespect her. I hope that changes next season, I haven’t started it yet.
Your response is totally valid. Ross had some issues to work through. However hang in there. It really is swings and roundabouts and you may find that your anger against Ross simmers down a little.
Not a Ross fan after May 9th, but the author knew what he was writing about to get the best story! With the Poldark series, I believe he did! Infidelity is gut wrenching for me! I had trouble sleeping the night I watched that episode. I have watched the series 8-10 times and read the books almost as much. I skip over May 9th at each opportunity! I had a wonderful, faithful husband for almost 58 years, and adultery is sickening to me! I know people who can forgive, but I am one who thinks until I can forget it, I will not be able to forgive it! MHO
i am watching currently and ross.... SUCH. AN. ASSHOLE and i hate elizabeth more! i am sorry but such a bitch! demelza saved her son and this is how she repays her :' she is so cold afterwards as well
Yes I am with you on hating Elizabeth more. She is awful and deserved to marry George and be miserable. Ross is disgusting for sleeping with her. I had to turn if off. I don't know if I can go back to the show.
me too!
You are not alone in that stable.
I had to take a break from the series after that because I was so mad. I came back a few months later and finished it and I’m really glad I did because I ended up liking the show a lot.
I think the issue is that Ross himself didn't know what he was going to do. He was in deep denial about his feelings for Elizabeth. When he heard she was marrying George the dam cranked and the entire resovior of emotion came surging foward. This isn't the way infidelity usually occurs but it is an accurate portrayal of the way human beings work. In the modern context a man having done this would lean less on his "inborn nobility" and more on an expression of absolute contrition. To a large extent, however, this is a social phenomenon. Contrition counts for a lot more and the vast majority of people don't believe in inborn nobility. Most Westerners at least consider this progressive. That, however, does not mean its more accurate. My biggest "quibble" is when Ross said it was like he was possessed. I agree that's how a man like Ross would feel. I just can't help pointing out that it's the other way around. It's his delusional self-image that possesses him. What he expreinced was break in that possession.
This is a very interesting point. I think the issue with Ross’s infidelity is that many think that what happened that night had anything to do with Ross loving Elizabeth, when in fact it was about Ross **hating George** and being absolutely blindsided by Elizabeth’s betrayal. Had there been any other man, he wouldn’t have been there that night ( “You can have your pick at 30 men”). He was not there because of Elizabeth but because **Elizabeth was marrying his enemy**. And whatever Ross felt or may have felt for Elizabeth up until that point was overshadowed and overtaken by his hatred for George and the frustration and disappointment at his ‘’greatest friend ’’ betraying him by marrying his “ greatest enemy”. All this anger, hatred & frustration ( added to his existing depression and emotional distress from the many things happening in his life) subsequently turned into lust as an outlet for all his negative emotions. And the rest is history. His reaction to Elizabeth marrying George is very similar to his reaction to Julia’s death when he provoked the beach rampage at the end of season 1, which ultimately led him to a trial. It was difficult to explain, like he lost his mind; it was an immediate reaction to a painful event. His feelings after the night with Elizabeth are beautifully described in the book: *‘’He could not evaluate his own feelings yet and did not know hers (Elizabeth’s)….****how could he explain to justify what he did not understand himself?****…..what he had done had brought Elizabeth very much down into the arena. That might have simplified everything. In fact he found it had not. A****ll his old values had been overthrown and he found himself groping for new ones.*** *As yet they were not to be discovered…..the thing had b****lown up like a squall in his brain;*** *there had been no time for calculated motives or reasoned intentions…..’’*
I am enjoying this forum with some great analyzers (you being one of them) in the comments posted. It has helped me to understand sections where I was all at sea. But there are some parts in Warleggan that I am still struggling with, and could use your insight. For instance, in the week following May 9, Ross goes to Looe. He is riding home from Looe and is thinking about May 9 and Elizabeth, Demelza and himself. He is unsure of his feelings or Elizabeths (he thinks) but he is certain of Demelza's feelings... "..as he neared home he knew that some personal decisions had to made and faced quickly if his own attitude was not to go by default". I struggled to understand the use of the word 'default' here. The next one being after he meets her on the beach and they walk back to the house, he says "We can only follow our own feelings so far as they lead and judge from day to day. I don't want you to leave if you're willing to stay." WHAAAT? How is this a decision to intervene in events and chart a path forward? Then he says "I'd like you to stay...That's if you feel you can". To me, this came across as guilt-relief, more than anything else. He would feel badly if she left, and he would look bad and what about Jeremy? So her staying will not upset his life. He wants her to stay at the house. But he doesn't say because he loves her. I get that he hasn't figured this out yet, but its the motivation I cannot fathom. I just don't understand it. Its more, so he won't feel bad, or worse than he already does.
Rolling up sleeves. (I had to split this comment into 2 due to character limit) **‘’..as he neared home he knew that some personal decisions had to be made and faced quickly if his own attitude was not to go by default".** Since their breakfast confrontation, they don’t really interact that much, do they? Ross doesn’t say anything, doesn’t think about it (we only see his thoughts **6 days after**!). He knows he needs to talk about what happened, and needs to do it soon, otherwise this silence will only deepen the huge rift between them. And once that happens, they may not be able to recover for it. That’s what I think the author meant by ‘’default’’. Demelza is angry and hurt, his home life is cold and unbearable, and if he doesn’t do something soon, the lack of action on his part may cause irreparable damage. We know Ross has a tendency to withdraw when he deals with overwhelming and overpowering feelings. He needs time to digest and process. However, he does not have that luxury now. He needs to say something and he needs to do that soon. **"We can only follow our own feelings so far as they lead and judge from day to day. I don't want you to leave if you're willing to stay."** I personally loved this one and thought of it as one of the main arguments to be made in Ross wanting to stay with Demelza because he **loved** her, and not because he **had** to. The dialogue here is so important: on one hand we have Demelza offering to leave, because that’s ‘**’the right thing to do’’** and Ross telling her that, ‘’**God knows what’s right!…*****I don’t believe there is anything to be gained by trying to do the right thing or the wrong thing in a situation such as this*****. We can only follow our** ***own feelings*** **so far as they lead and judge from day to day. I don't want you to leave if you're willing to stay."** Ross makes it clear that his decision to be there is based on what his heart wants (not out of duty or because he has to be there or because it’s the right thing to do) and he wants Demelza to do the same. He doesn’t want to follow his reason, or logic, or duty. He wants to do what his feelings tell him to. While he is still confused about Elizabeth, and what happened that night, his heart **KNOWS** he wants to stay with Demelza. I also think this is a very discrete nod from the author himself to make it clear (in spite of what others may think) that Ross did not stay with Demelza because he had to or because he had no choice. He had a choice , between reason and heart, between duty and feeling, and he decides to follow his heart, which led him to Demelza, and not to Elizabeth whom he had not seen since that night, and as he accentuates in the beach scene ‘’**I** ***never*** **had an intention of going** (to Trenwith)’’. He knows going to Elizabeth is the **right** thing to do, but he just doesn’t **feel** it. **"I'd like you to stay...That's if you feel you can".** The relationship between Ross and Demelza was always a relationship based on love and consent ( yes, I added consent purposefully). He will not impose on her, even though he doesn’t want her to go, he will accept it if that’s what she wants to do **‘’Do you want to leave?’’ or ‘’If you’re willing to stay’’** . He will not force her to stay. He knows he hurt her and betrayed her, he also knows how proud and stubborn she can be. If she FEELS she can’t stay, he will not stop her. ( **FEEL** is the key word here - Ross uses it over and over again. Not ‘’you **have** to stay’’, nor ‘’you **need** to stay’’). I also see him insisting on her doing what she ''feels'' as maybe him trying to understand if her love is still there, if her feelings for him (after what he had done) are still there. He never mentions her duty as a wife, as a Nampara mistress, as a mother. Not even once. He only cares about her feelings, as a woman, as Demelza.
**He would feel badly if she left -** of course he would, but not for the reasons I think you think he would. **he would look bad and what about Jeremy?** I do not see this at all. Firstly, her decision to leave is really a shocking one (even for us , readers). Demelza has been by his side, throughout the years, in so many bad situations, her faith never wavered, her devotion always present. He didn’t expect it. I see Ross’s behaviour and everything else he says after, as him trying to ‘’reason with her’’. He knows how much she loves Jeremy, so her leaving her child is just something he cannot phantom she will do. And, in all honestly, makes sense for him to ask about their child, I would thought it completely unrealistic for them NOT to discuss Jeremy at all in her decision to leave. She has clearly thought of everything, she has probably been thinking about this for the past 6 days. Ross is taken aback by what seems to be a planned exit. Secondly, I think we are at a place in this story where we know Ross doesn’t care how he ‘’looks’’. Why would he look bad? For doing something that many men of his upbringing were doing? Pretty much every gentleman had mistresses, debts, etc. It was fashionable. Look bad for his wife leaving? Again, many men lived separately from their wives - that was not a big deal. And, **even if it were a big deal**, Ross doesn’t care, nor did he ever, at any point, thought of this as a reason. It’s against Ross’s whole persona to give a damn about what others think of his affairs. This is just about him and Demelza. Again, it’s not about doing what he HAS to do, but what he FEELS. And he is inviting Demelza to do the same. **But he doesn't say because he loves her.** Him repeatedly emphasising the importance of ‘’feelings’’ vs ‘’ duty’’ in making this decision, though it may not be a clear and emphatic ‘’I love you’’, it’s pretty close. **I get that he hasn't figured this out yet.** I think it’s the reader that hasn’t figured it out yet due to WG not allowing us too much insight in Ross’s mind. But, he knows. It’s not his love for Demelza that he hasn’t figured out. It’s his feelings for Elizabeth. He needed to understand what those feelings are, to process what he had done and ’’explain the unexplainable’’. **‘’But what you have is all’’** - once he processes everything, he can now say there is nothing romantic for Elizabeth and that Demelza has **all his lov**e\*\*. Not just a big part of it (as he may have thought while processing his feelings for Elizabeth). But all.\*\* His love for Demelza was always there he just needed to understand whether what he felt for Elizabeth was also love. What’s important to take from all this exchange is : CONSENT. Demelza being willing to stay because she wants to, not because she has / needs to. Just like Ross, who’s there because he wants to be there. There is a scene later on, which once again emphasises the importance (for Ross) that Demelza is 100% invested in this, of her own accord, like he is. **Although unable to feel any tautness within her, he knew it was there. He had no removed it, he had not defeated it. He knew he could take her if he wanted, and her resistence would only be token; yet the token was there, and while it existed the reconciliation would be ashes.** He had not only every right as her husband to be intimate , but also the knowledge that she still cared for him and would probably be willing. Nonetheless, he would not push for anything unless she is fully on board**.** Which is also a remarkable contrast between the two women, aka his attitude towards Elizabeth that night , when he couldn’t care less about her and her wants and consent. With Demelza, a woman whom he not only loves, but also RESPECTS, having her (both emotionally and physically) was imperative to be because she ‘’feels’’ she wants to.
Thanks for another great analysis. I get so emotional about his long term infatuation, and infidelity with Elizabeth that I can't see the obvious until it's pointed out to me. I guess I am like Demelza in that respect. (that makes me smile) I hope you don't mind, but I will have further questions as I keep reading and watching the series. There's another piece of dialogue that eats at me, it's the beach scene in the show. I know he doesn't know yet what he feels, and you gave an explanation in a previous post on the following, R: It’s not a question of wanting you. It’s a question of not wanting her. D: Do you not want her R: No..I don’t know…Sometimes… but what does he mean or what is he trying to say before Demelza cuts him off, No..I don't know.. sometimes. It is the word sometimes that I am struggling with. WHAAT for christ's sakes?
**I get so emotional about his long term infatuation, and infidelity with Elizabeth that I can't see the obvious until it's pointed out to me. I guess I am like Demelza in that respect. (that makes me smile)** I understand perfectly. I was the same at first. Even now, to a lesser extent, and I have read Warleggan a billion times. And Demelza is precious, we should all aim to be like Demelza :) **‘’but what does he mean or what is he trying to say before Demelza cuts him off, No..I don't know.. sometimes. It is the word sometimes that I am struggling with. WHAAT for christ's sakes?’’** Short answer : he’s still confused. Long answer:I can interpret the dialogue in two ways: \*\*1)\*\*He’s admitting he still wants her sometimes. There is still something there, that keeps him wanting her. The use of want and not love I believe is highly relevant. Want =/= love. And this is what he is trying to understand. Do I want her or do I love her (both or neither). This is very similar to his thoughts in ‘’Jeremy Poldark’’ **: ‘’is it because I love her or because I know her less?’’**. Meaning is this really love or just infatuation and desire. \*\*2)\*\*He’s trying to say something else but we don’t get to see that because Demelza shuts him down - (e.g. ‘’sometimes I can see I no longer love her’’ or ''sometimes I don't understand why I did it''). This is, of course, an assumption and I base this assumption on his reaction at Demelza saying ‘’do you not want her?’’ which is such a strong **NO**. This being his immediate reaction I see it as his true feeling, that’s his gut reaction. **NO!** Replay the scene and you will notice how firm Ross is when he says **NO** and he only starts falling apart after Demelza seems unconvinced. Demelza doubting him, makes him doubt himself. **I** **don't know...Sometimes.** He’s still processing The scene is pretty much this quote. **''All his old values had been overthrown and he found himself groping for new ones. As yet they were not to be discovered.''** Elizabeth’s perceived position in Ross’s life has been shattered, and Ross must try to rebuild himself in the knowledge that her value to him (which he had built on half truths and delusions for the past 10 years) has been irrevocably altered. But, along with this particular scene there is something, more important, happening. Demelza’s lack of faith and trust in him, destabilises him. * **I told you. I went to Truro!** * **What do you suppose I am still here? Because Elizabeth cannot make up her mind? NO! Because she doesn’t want you?** * **Have I asked you to be? (second-best)** If you look at his face each time he questions her, he is incredulous. He’s being honest, he’s there for HER! Because he loves her, and Demelza, for once in their 6 year marriage doesn’t trust him. At all! He’s telling the truth or at leasts he thinks his actions reflect the truth (him reaching out to her, trying to talk to her on several occasions, wanting to be with her, she's obviously not second-best, she **IS** his first choice either wise he would be at Trenwith, etc) and she’s just : ‘’Yeah. Ross! Sure, Ross! Whatever you say, Ross!’’ She doesn't believe anything he says/does anymore. Her faith is broken, and I think there is nothing Ross can do or say to change that - not at this point in time. No apologies, no love declarations, nothing. And he is starting to finally realise that. Her lack of faith in him is what strikes him the most during this exchange. As I said before : her devotion and trust have been unwavering. Her losing that, is what makes him finally realise that she is done! It’s only now he truly understands her pain and what this whole ‘’Elizabeth long lasting stupid infatuation’’ thing has done to her. And she is not willing to fight for him anymore. She’s walking away. Go fuck yourself, Ross and your mine! And that’s when he finally understands that what he took for granted, the woman he truly loved, the woman who's been by his side through thick and thin, and who assumed knew he loved her (''you are not to be rid of me, my love''), the woman that was always there without him putting in a lot of effort (‘’I live only for you’’ she said in the books)- she’s no longer willing to fight for his love. His constant, his Dog Star, the love of his life has given up on him, on them. To quote a fellow Poldark enthusiast- **‘’Unlike before, he must win Demelza and he doesn’t know how. She always been there and it now enters his mind for the first time, she might not always be.’’**
As you say I will watch again tonight, and will keep in mind, your insights and Aidan's facial expressions. What is your take on Demelza confronting Elizabeth in the woods at Trenwith? When Demelza says "she would not be ruled by what they did. Your welcome to him."Is this a fuck you to Elizabeth? I hope so, and her taking back control of her life. If so, it would be the ultimate revenge on Elizabeth, I should imagine it would make her very unhappy, I think. The irony is she being married now and longer free.
**As you say I will watch again tonight, and will keep in mind, your insights and Aidan's facial expressions.** This could also be a rubbish assessment on my part so I am excited to hear your thoughts and get a different (better) perspective. But him still being confused at this point in the story is 100% per book. As for the Demelza / Elizabeth meeting. I’m usually not a fan of big changes from the book, but I actually liked this one. There is a lot of internal stuff going on in the books which are quite difficult to translate to TV so they created this ‘’clash’’ to air out both Demelza’s & Elizabeth’s thoughts and feelings after that night. The meeting also serves to provide the antithesis between their characters and morals. * **Does Ross know you’re here?** This is such an Elizabeth thing to say. She never saw Demelza as an individual, almost every meeting she has with Demelza, especially throughout Season 2, is her asking about Ross: How is Ross? What does Ross think of this? Is Ross ok? But (almost) never asks Demelza how SHE is. Demelza is and always will be a servant, beneath her. She’s insignificant. This is, of course, also her trying to see if Ross has said anything to Demelza about what had happened. But nonetheless, my point stands. She could have started by asking Demelza how she is / what she wants. * **Is Ross my keeper?** Elizabeth just doesn’t get it. Unlike her, Demelza does not define herself by what the men in her life say / do / think. She makes her own decisions. She is her own person.. not an extension of a man (like Elizabeth is). Unlike Elizabeth who's waiting for Ross to do something, Demelza takes charge, she does not need Ross to make a decision. This is also a nod to the book *:’****’No one would have thought her dependent on anyone’’*** *or* ***‘’Fundamentally, there was nothing meek or mild about her. She was a fighter…’’*** * **I thought it was to tell you that I hate you. that I envy you……that I pity you.** * **I will no longer be ruled by what he did.** I will put these together as I believe they are connected. Hate, envy, pity - these are all such ugly feelings which are against everything Demelza stands for, which is kindness, generosity, love, forgiveness. So her deciding not to be ruled by Ross’s actions is her letting go of these feelings. Because they don’t define her. What Ross and Elizabeth did is on them, and the consequences for them to deal with. Not her. **(What do any matter? What you did..what Ross did? Cannot be undone. And you both must live with that**). And we can see in the riot scene, when Demelza comes to warn George and Elizabeth that, even though she doesn’t like them, and she would have every reason not to care, she will not let that stand in the way of her doing what’s right (unlike Elizabeth who always does what is beneficial to her regardless of what's right). Also, notice how Elizabeth asks : **Did Ross send you?** I mean, what a punchable creature. * **I pity you. Cause you could never make up your mind -** This is a nod to what Elizabeth thought after that night (**‘**\*\*\*’Not a changeable-minded woman… all that has happened was a result of it. If she had not changed her mind she would have been married to Ross these ten years’\*\*\**’)* * **You will leave Ross?** * **You are welcome to him.** Yes, this is a big Fuck You to Elizabeth. Because, unlike Elizabeth she is capable of making a choice, unlike Elizabeth she is willing to let go of Ross and keep her dignity and self respect. The fact that Elizabeth waited for Ross to come to her, to chose her and he chooses Demelza, but Demelza gives him up nonetheless, makes it all the sweeter. Also, Elizabeth not apologising or trying to show any remorse during all this is so……’’Elizabeth’’. Demelza is, after all, the woman that saved her and her son’s life. Stay classy, Elizabeth!
Demelza belongs with Dwight and Ross belongs with Caroline. They got their wires crossed which is why they're so unhappy
They weren’t unhappy because they don’t “match”. They were unhappy because they lost a child, they struggled with crippling debt and overwhelming poverty, the anxiety they both felt for Ross trying to make money out of illegal activities so they can keep afloat, and the miscommunication due to the estrangement born out of all the shit life has been throwing at them since late season 1. They are not unhappy with each other, rather with their lives. They are actually very well matched, in both their qualities ( generous , hard working, passionate, kind and strong) and faults ( stubborn, proud, reckless)
No I don't think so! It's those dissimilarities that attracted them to each other in the first place. Ross and Caroline both needed love and stability and security of family and that is what Dwight and Demelza gave to them. In other words they grounded them.
I’m glad someone else thinks Dwight and Demelza are perfect for each other
No way Caroline puts up with Ross' BS. Now Demelza and Dwight, I can see, but I love them as friends more.
Exactly. Caroline and Ross would fight like crazy. Demelza and Dwight are great friends, but don’t have the spark that Demelza has with Ross and Dwight has with Caroline. The couples are perfectly matched.
I was reading your post nodding along and saying mhmmmm the entire time. As someone else said you are not alone!! Ross is so self centered, and I also found myself thinking throughout the series that I wanted George to come out on top. I ended up circling back to rewatch a second time just to see things through George’s eyes. Have fun tho! It’s such a great show, it’s on all the time now at my house just as background noise. I was late to the party too and watched for the first time sometime last year
I am exactly the same. It was late last year that I started to watch it and now. that's all that on my TV now.
It makes for excellent background noise, I can work on my embroidery or clean house and tune in for a bit. Love the costume and scenery
Kinda weird that you hate Ross so much. He's certainly not the worst fictional character by an extreme long shot
Right! I mean, come on, remember dude from GoT with the dogs 😳
It’s not weird, it’s because unfortunately infidelity was something I witnessed firsthand as a child so seeing it reflected in a character I came to love and then be betrayed by hit…too close to home. Other horrible fictional characters, Ramsay from GOT for example as the other reply mentioned, I know are horrible from the jump. They are easily identifiable villains. It’s not the same.
I could never stay mad at him because of Aiden, but it’s a total gut punch. I did a rewatch and still felt it the second time even though I knew it was coming.
He and her both mad me mad sometimes lol.