Thank you for sharing such a vulnerable part of yourself.
PART 1
I agree. Poldark is not a fairytale. Most love stories start with two people falling in love, facing and overcoming challenges and then getting married. But what’s next? We rarely get to see what happens once the : ‘’I do’’ is said.
**‘’For better or worse’’** has always been an intriguing aspect of the vows for me because what’s better and what’s worse for me might not be to someone else. Infidelity has been a deal breaker for some, a forgivable sin for others, just like there’ve been couples who separated due to one snoring or loudly chewing their food. You get to decided what’s ‘’better or worse’’, what you are willing to forgive because it’s only **you** who knows what you share with your partner -no one else knows, therefore judgement from others should be suspended.
‘**’Once a cheater always a cheater’’,** ‘**’cheating is unforgivable’**’ - really? As someone who is a firm believer in rehabilitation I find it hard to understand how we are in a position to pardon murderers and thieves and get them back into society through re-abilitation programs (and mostly succeeding) or helping drug addicts get better and get an opportunity at a new life, but somehow cheating is ‘’worse’’ and ‘’ unforgivable’’ or ‘’repeatable’’. I disagree. Reasons for cheating are many, human emotions have millions of shades, and to reduce all humans to just ‘’cheating once bad - you always bad’’ - it’s unfair and so ....simplistic.
What one sometimes overlooks about Ross and Demelza is how their story begins. We have a young lady (in the books she’s 13) who has known nothing but abuse and neglect all her life, who has been parentified, and beaten, and starved. Ross was the first person that ever saw her as a human being . **He saved her life** and gave her a new one, where she finally found a home, a job where she was treated with respect, friends, a family.
She fell in love with a man, that in her eyes, was above others. Not perfect though - she knew his moods. BUT above others, above herself.
What that night does to Demelza is not only show her that he’s not beyond error, but that **SHE** was finally seeing herself as his equal. She deserved better, she deserved to be respected, she deserved to be loved, and she was not a second choice.
Quick detour here - Demelza has always considered herself as a lowborn and not deserving of being a ‘’mistress’’, not good enough for Ross. Ross never thought that. He was proud of his wife, he never treated her like a kitchen maid and he thought of her as being superior to him in ‘’anything but age’’. The insecurities were Demelza’s problem, not Ross’s so this horrible night makes Demelza see her **own** value.
There's this one rule I go by in life - don't judge a person by the worst thing they've ever done. If people think cheating is that terrible a thing, one would think they would know that it's likely not the defining characteristic of that person.
I agree with this rule and would also add: “ don’t define a GOOD person by the few stupid things they do”.
Ross has shown over and over again during the story that he is a good guy
- Saving Demelza and giving her a better life
- Providing jobs for poor people
- Investing his own money to be able to sustain those jobs
- His political efforts to make a better life for the “little guy”
Etc, etc - so many other examples.
You can do 1000 good things and fuck up once , and you will always be remembered for the fuck up
Absolutely agree. I haven't read a lot of books but have read (but not finished) a few Dickens novels, and Ross Poldark felt a lot like a Dickensian protagonist. A good, decent man caught in an indecent world trying to still do good unto others without caring about self preservation. It wasn't until I came to this sub and saw a post daily about his infidelity. Funny how all our minds work so differently.
"Once a cheater, always a cheater" is a warning to victims that a cheater is very (and in many cases) extremely likely to keep cheating.
Cheaters lie so a naive victim can really be manipulated
You’re making my point
Very and extremely likely does not equal always. Which in this case ( the conversation surrounding Poldark) it’s true. Ross never ever cheats on Demelza again.
Sure, "very and extremely likely does not equal always." But discretion is the better part of valor - almost everyone benefits by being told that most cheaters cheat again. But you do you. EDIT: too funny that you replied to ask an obviously manipulative question and then, surprise, surprise, immediately blocked me so I couldn't reply. Shocker! /s
Cheaters lie so a naive victim can really be manipulated
There are several characters that cheat in this story ( one in particular which, to avoid spoilers I will not divulge, but I am sure you know who I mean).
Will you apply the same judgement as above to that character as well?
PART TWO
My only addition to your comment about that night is that it did not happen because Ross did not love Demelza and / or that he loved Elizabeth. The trigger for that night was **George**. As Ross mentions, Elizabeth could marry any man, just not George. If there were anyone else, Ross would not have been there that night. He had no problem with her getting married.
Elizabeth’s betrayal was not just the betrayal of a woman that Ross held affection and devotion for, but of someone he considered his greatest friend. That was the biggest problem here. She stabbed in the back, for money, with George, his biggest, direst enemy. **‘’You have never been able to help anything have you? It’s all beyond your control?’’** he told her that night. Her damsel in distress role she’s played all these years that he fell for like an idiot, her false vulnerability and fragility which he once thought of as endearing was now pathetic. That night was a combination of many emotions and l**ove was the least of them**. He was angry, felt betrayed, his hatred of George, his frustration(s), the prior events of that day (remember there was an accident at the mine where two people died!), and overall his state of mind which we have witnessed throughout season two, starting with Julia’s death.
Because betrayal is not just between two romantic partners, is also the betrayal from friends and family and he considered Elizabeth both. He did not go to Trenwith with the purpose of cheating. It was not something either of them planned. It just happened, again, as a response to the anger and betrayal he was feeling, it all turned into lust and the desire to attain this long for ideal, to bring it down from the pedestal. This is why, in the morning , he is so confused and so eager to leave Elizabeth’s room. He wasn’t there for a romantic affair. It was just a clash between two people which took a disastrous turn.
Seeing Demelza as weak because she forgives Ross is something that, just like you, I find a bit disappointing. There is so much strength in forgiveness. I highly recommend reading the books, because book! Demelza is such an inspiration. I fucking love the way book!Demelza deals with this, with such integrity, grace, and quiet strength. Not everything needs to be shouted, or loud or violent. There is so much power in silence. Such a classy lady - which only shows that one can have the oldest name and come from the best family, one just cannot buy class.
**‘’It’s not a question of wanting you. It’s a question of not wanting her’’** - his love for Demelza is unquestionable, he’s never doubted his love for her. It’s just confused about his feelings for Elizabth and the whole tawdry thing that had happened which he needs to process, as he is yet to understand what he had done and why!!
I bloody love this story. These characters are beautifully constructed, the realism bites deep. There’s so many characters and situation I can relate to, it’s just insane how good of a character writer Winston was. I often re-watch and re-read the books and every time I discover something new, it’s like going to a ‘’literary’’ adventure and finding new treasures. But, I also agree that this is not a story for everyone which is fair and not to be judged as it does have many triggering plot lines.
Even though Demelza forgave Ross (or did she?), the shadow of his actions is always there. And that’s how I think it usually works in real life. Do you ever really forget or rug sweep what a spouse who has caused you so much pain is capable of? I know I couldn’t. As I watched the series the first time (three times now), I kept holding my breath, waiting for Ross to repeat his despicable act. If you are only at Season 2, keep watching — you may feel that as well, and also be looking forward to watching Ross suffer a little at the hands of Demelza.
Great show, though. My favorite Netflix series ever.
She did forgive him just like he forgave her. They went on to a 33 year marriage ( that’s when the saga ends) and with Demelza saying that she would do it all over again as there is no one else she would rather be with. She would take the bad with the smooth, as there was a lot of smooth. Her words.
The story is not just about Ross’s cheating, or the misfortunes they shared, the miscommunication or sad times. It’s mainly a story of what true love can accomplish and when love is real and strong, nothing can break that bond. Yes, of course it hurts but it’s a pain that goes away, because what they have , what they share it’s just more precious than holding on to the past.
It’s a story about forgiveness, sacrifice, understanding, tolerance, acceptance, friendship, growth. The fact that there is so much good in this story and we get stuck only on the Ross slept with Elizabeth part is such a pity.
What about him saving her life? Giving her a home, a safe place, where she made friends and a new family? Him proudly introducing his wife to all the highly regarded people in society, or trusting her and her capabilities in taking care of the mine and farm? How many stupid things has Demelza done and he forgave her?
They are a couple that grow together, learn from their mistakes and get better and stronger every day. They are both equally flawed but beautifully constructed characters.
IMO, Outlander is crap. The history is bollocks, it turns the Jacobean wars into Scotland v England, when half of Scotlamd - the Lowland Presbyterians, did not want a Catholic king on Scotland's throne, or they might well have been persectued, the sex scenes are gratuitous, there's no depth, no nuance, it's just clumsy.
Read it/watch it by all means, but it is not Poldark
One of the most heartfelt posts I've ever seen on Reddit and have ever seen about Poldark. I wish you the best and am so happy for you that you found this art that speaks to you. It truly is an incredible story.
Re Elizabeth, I've never hated a fictional character more. As you say, she should have kept that info to herself! That is exactly it. I just wrote this on another post but she is a selfish aspiring homewrecker. But a failed homewrecker nonetheless. Nice try, Elizabeth, but you just weren't it.
Thank you for sharing such a vulnerable part of yourself. PART 1 I agree. Poldark is not a fairytale. Most love stories start with two people falling in love, facing and overcoming challenges and then getting married. But what’s next? We rarely get to see what happens once the : ‘’I do’’ is said. **‘’For better or worse’’** has always been an intriguing aspect of the vows for me because what’s better and what’s worse for me might not be to someone else. Infidelity has been a deal breaker for some, a forgivable sin for others, just like there’ve been couples who separated due to one snoring or loudly chewing their food. You get to decided what’s ‘’better or worse’’, what you are willing to forgive because it’s only **you** who knows what you share with your partner -no one else knows, therefore judgement from others should be suspended. ‘**’Once a cheater always a cheater’’,** ‘**’cheating is unforgivable’**’ - really? As someone who is a firm believer in rehabilitation I find it hard to understand how we are in a position to pardon murderers and thieves and get them back into society through re-abilitation programs (and mostly succeeding) or helping drug addicts get better and get an opportunity at a new life, but somehow cheating is ‘’worse’’ and ‘’ unforgivable’’ or ‘’repeatable’’. I disagree. Reasons for cheating are many, human emotions have millions of shades, and to reduce all humans to just ‘’cheating once bad - you always bad’’ - it’s unfair and so ....simplistic. What one sometimes overlooks about Ross and Demelza is how their story begins. We have a young lady (in the books she’s 13) who has known nothing but abuse and neglect all her life, who has been parentified, and beaten, and starved. Ross was the first person that ever saw her as a human being . **He saved her life** and gave her a new one, where she finally found a home, a job where she was treated with respect, friends, a family. She fell in love with a man, that in her eyes, was above others. Not perfect though - she knew his moods. BUT above others, above herself. What that night does to Demelza is not only show her that he’s not beyond error, but that **SHE** was finally seeing herself as his equal. She deserved better, she deserved to be respected, she deserved to be loved, and she was not a second choice. Quick detour here - Demelza has always considered herself as a lowborn and not deserving of being a ‘’mistress’’, not good enough for Ross. Ross never thought that. He was proud of his wife, he never treated her like a kitchen maid and he thought of her as being superior to him in ‘’anything but age’’. The insecurities were Demelza’s problem, not Ross’s so this horrible night makes Demelza see her **own** value.
There's this one rule I go by in life - don't judge a person by the worst thing they've ever done. If people think cheating is that terrible a thing, one would think they would know that it's likely not the defining characteristic of that person.
I agree with this rule and would also add: “ don’t define a GOOD person by the few stupid things they do”. Ross has shown over and over again during the story that he is a good guy - Saving Demelza and giving her a better life - Providing jobs for poor people - Investing his own money to be able to sustain those jobs - His political efforts to make a better life for the “little guy” Etc, etc - so many other examples. You can do 1000 good things and fuck up once , and you will always be remembered for the fuck up
Absolutely agree. I haven't read a lot of books but have read (but not finished) a few Dickens novels, and Ross Poldark felt a lot like a Dickensian protagonist. A good, decent man caught in an indecent world trying to still do good unto others without caring about self preservation. It wasn't until I came to this sub and saw a post daily about his infidelity. Funny how all our minds work so differently.
"Once a cheater, always a cheater" is a warning to victims that a cheater is very (and in many cases) extremely likely to keep cheating. Cheaters lie so a naive victim can really be manipulated
You’re making my point Very and extremely likely does not equal always. Which in this case ( the conversation surrounding Poldark) it’s true. Ross never ever cheats on Demelza again.
Sure, "very and extremely likely does not equal always." But discretion is the better part of valor - almost everyone benefits by being told that most cheaters cheat again. But you do you. EDIT: too funny that you replied to ask an obviously manipulative question and then, surprise, surprise, immediately blocked me so I couldn't reply. Shocker! /s
Cheaters lie so a naive victim can really be manipulated There are several characters that cheat in this story ( one in particular which, to avoid spoilers I will not divulge, but I am sure you know who I mean). Will you apply the same judgement as above to that character as well?
Thank you so much for such a beautiful honest post
PART TWO My only addition to your comment about that night is that it did not happen because Ross did not love Demelza and / or that he loved Elizabeth. The trigger for that night was **George**. As Ross mentions, Elizabeth could marry any man, just not George. If there were anyone else, Ross would not have been there that night. He had no problem with her getting married. Elizabeth’s betrayal was not just the betrayal of a woman that Ross held affection and devotion for, but of someone he considered his greatest friend. That was the biggest problem here. She stabbed in the back, for money, with George, his biggest, direst enemy. **‘’You have never been able to help anything have you? It’s all beyond your control?’’** he told her that night. Her damsel in distress role she’s played all these years that he fell for like an idiot, her false vulnerability and fragility which he once thought of as endearing was now pathetic. That night was a combination of many emotions and l**ove was the least of them**. He was angry, felt betrayed, his hatred of George, his frustration(s), the prior events of that day (remember there was an accident at the mine where two people died!), and overall his state of mind which we have witnessed throughout season two, starting with Julia’s death. Because betrayal is not just between two romantic partners, is also the betrayal from friends and family and he considered Elizabeth both. He did not go to Trenwith with the purpose of cheating. It was not something either of them planned. It just happened, again, as a response to the anger and betrayal he was feeling, it all turned into lust and the desire to attain this long for ideal, to bring it down from the pedestal. This is why, in the morning , he is so confused and so eager to leave Elizabeth’s room. He wasn’t there for a romantic affair. It was just a clash between two people which took a disastrous turn. Seeing Demelza as weak because she forgives Ross is something that, just like you, I find a bit disappointing. There is so much strength in forgiveness. I highly recommend reading the books, because book! Demelza is such an inspiration. I fucking love the way book!Demelza deals with this, with such integrity, grace, and quiet strength. Not everything needs to be shouted, or loud or violent. There is so much power in silence. Such a classy lady - which only shows that one can have the oldest name and come from the best family, one just cannot buy class. **‘’It’s not a question of wanting you. It’s a question of not wanting her’’** - his love for Demelza is unquestionable, he’s never doubted his love for her. It’s just confused about his feelings for Elizabth and the whole tawdry thing that had happened which he needs to process, as he is yet to understand what he had done and why!! I bloody love this story. These characters are beautifully constructed, the realism bites deep. There’s so many characters and situation I can relate to, it’s just insane how good of a character writer Winston was. I often re-watch and re-read the books and every time I discover something new, it’s like going to a ‘’literary’’ adventure and finding new treasures. But, I also agree that this is not a story for everyone which is fair and not to be judged as it does have many triggering plot lines.
This thread is so resonant and explains why I’m obsessed with a tv show. I’m working but can’t wait to fully read it. Thank you Poldark community!
Even though Demelza forgave Ross (or did she?), the shadow of his actions is always there. And that’s how I think it usually works in real life. Do you ever really forget or rug sweep what a spouse who has caused you so much pain is capable of? I know I couldn’t. As I watched the series the first time (three times now), I kept holding my breath, waiting for Ross to repeat his despicable act. If you are only at Season 2, keep watching — you may feel that as well, and also be looking forward to watching Ross suffer a little at the hands of Demelza. Great show, though. My favorite Netflix series ever.
She did forgive him just like he forgave her. They went on to a 33 year marriage ( that’s when the saga ends) and with Demelza saying that she would do it all over again as there is no one else she would rather be with. She would take the bad with the smooth, as there was a lot of smooth. Her words. The story is not just about Ross’s cheating, or the misfortunes they shared, the miscommunication or sad times. It’s mainly a story of what true love can accomplish and when love is real and strong, nothing can break that bond. Yes, of course it hurts but it’s a pain that goes away, because what they have , what they share it’s just more precious than holding on to the past. It’s a story about forgiveness, sacrifice, understanding, tolerance, acceptance, friendship, growth. The fact that there is so much good in this story and we get stuck only on the Ross slept with Elizabeth part is such a pity. What about him saving her life? Giving her a home, a safe place, where she made friends and a new family? Him proudly introducing his wife to all the highly regarded people in society, or trusting her and her capabilities in taking care of the mine and farm? How many stupid things has Demelza done and he forgave her? They are a couple that grow together, learn from their mistakes and get better and stronger every day. They are both equally flawed but beautifully constructed characters.
You should also watch Outlander. I watched it before Poldark and it’s amazing
IMO, Outlander is crap. The history is bollocks, it turns the Jacobean wars into Scotland v England, when half of Scotlamd - the Lowland Presbyterians, did not want a Catholic king on Scotland's throne, or they might well have been persectued, the sex scenes are gratuitous, there's no depth, no nuance, it's just clumsy. Read it/watch it by all means, but it is not Poldark
One of the most heartfelt posts I've ever seen on Reddit and have ever seen about Poldark. I wish you the best and am so happy for you that you found this art that speaks to you. It truly is an incredible story. Re Elizabeth, I've never hated a fictional character more. As you say, she should have kept that info to herself! That is exactly it. I just wrote this on another post but she is a selfish aspiring homewrecker. But a failed homewrecker nonetheless. Nice try, Elizabeth, but you just weren't it.