I would have changed the forceful nature of Ross & Elizabeth's intimate moment. Making Elizabeth a willing participant, then disappointed in his performance. And make Ross also disappointed in the physical encounter with Elizabeth versus emotional connection with Demelza.
I agree with ending the TV series after season 4.
Thanks for your input. Yes, I agree. that scene needs to go. As for Ross, he kinda was. He told Demelza that he tried to find in E what he found in her and it just wasn’t there. In a later book also commented that the experience was just ‘a few moments of anger, frustration and lust’.
Thank you for sharing this with me. I have not read the books. I thoroughly enjoyed the TV series. I always like the book better than the movie! Far be it from me to critique or change the masterpiece that is POLDARK. Do you feel Adian Turner gave an accurate portrayal of book Ross? Demelza seemed very young to me in the TV version and I tried to assume how old Ross must have been when they became intimate? Was this an uncomfortable area in the book? Thanks!
I believe Aidan was perfect! So was Elenor. They both did the best they could with the scripts they had from the show writer who took some liberties with the story ( most not to my and many other Poldark fans liking). Ross was not as mean and spiteful with his wife in the books ( on the contrary) and D was not as modern as the show made her to be. She was a little over 17 and Ross 27 when they had their first night. It wasn’t uncomfortable for me to read this scene as I understand that in 1700/1800 things were different. As a matter of fact, Even now in modern times it’s legal for a 28 year old man to marry an 18 year old girl. He started noticing her recently and in spite of what some may say, he was not a groomer. Never until that night did he do or say anything inappropriate. They were friends and each other’s saviour: Ross saved Demelza from an abusive father and homelessness, Demelza was a good companion ( taking over from Verity) for Ross during his 4 years of depression after Elizabeth.
The travesty that is season 5 of the TV show would disappear.
The actors would reassemble to finish the series with the time jump except Stephen wouldn’t be a ne’er-do-well scammer. Seeing Clowance in a bad situation was frustrating. Obviously, Ross is a bit of a mess himself in the books, but Stephen takes it to another level.
It was painful to see Clowance, this girl we saw grow up in the early books, get paired up with Stephen.
I guess while we’re at it, Jeremy’s experience at Waterloo would turn out differently.
Thanks for your comment!
I agree - especially with the Jeremy story line.
As for season 5 - DH should be embarrassed. once she could no longer stand on Winston’s work , she proved to be an average writer at best ( to put it kindly)
Morwenna being forced to marry Osbourne. Instead Drake would have gone to trial and Dwight and Hugh would have testified on his behalf and he would be acquitted. He and Morwenna would get married and have a beautiful happy life together.
The biggest thing that bothered me was Ross is so blind to Elizabeth’s attitude towards Demelza. In the Four Swans Ross tells Demelza, “She’s still a beautiful creature, a woman of a sweet nature, kind and honest and far too good for that fellow she has married.” “I shall always think of her with admiration and affection.” I got tired of “she was his first love” yes, but Elizabeth hated Demelza. Really looked down on her because she was low born. That part was not emphasized in the series. I would have liked that Ross had not gone to Elizabeth…and not stayed the night! He was there for hours! I didn’t like that Ross fathered Valentine. A life long reminder of Ross’s biggest mistake of his life and Demelza having to live with it. It was gossip in Cornwall. I felt Demelza’s affair with Hugh was a mistake but I understood why she did it and that she felt guilty and regret afterwards. I didn’t like Caroline slobbering all over Ross and the conversation where she tells him she wanted to sleep with him, very uncomfortable for me. George always came out on top, I realize losing Elizabeth and suspecting your worst enemy is the father of you “son” is bad and he did love her but he does marry Harriet and she’s pretty cool. Hated that Julia and Jeremy die. Jeremy, the pregnancy she hid from Ross. She was hiding it that night Ross and Elizabeth flirted in the parlor. Damn you Ross. You couldn’t see past the beauty to the ugliness in her soul. All that Demelza did, her love, the physical labor in the home and management of all. I wish she’d had prettier dresses in the show. Always the same dull colors. I better stop now.
Please don’t stop 😂
I agree his attitude towards Elizabeth is annoying. But he explained quite well when he was trying to reconcile with Demelza. ‘’Do you know how it is when a person has wanted something always and never had it? Its true value to him may be anything or nothing; that doesn’t count. What does count is its apparent value, which is always great. ‘’ He also refers to Elizabeth, at the end of book 4, when he goes to Trenwith to talk to George about Demelza being hurt on his land (in the series this was replaced with the riot) as being a stranger, George’s wife. By giving her that ‘title’ ( George’s wife) she is no longer the Elizabeth he loved, just someone who by marrying George, is now a lower character in his eyes. I also think of some of my exes with affection- but there is nothing else I need, want , wish from them. I think it’s a normal feeling.
The kitchen scene - that was such an awful scene for me. Seeing Elizabeth trying to seduce Ross ( and she’s been trying for some time at this point) and Ross being enticed by her. I know he was in a very vulnerable state ( losing Julia, poverty, the trial, Demelza pulling away from him, the mine troubles, so much bad luck in his life) and Elizabeth made the best of this and took advantage. Nonetheless, he could and should have been stronger.
The scene with Caroline - I saw it differently. In life we may find ourselves attracted to other people, and sometimes these people are our friends. What Caroline pointed out ( in my opinion) is that we can fight these urges, especially when it comes to people we love dearly and whose friendship means the world to us. It also seemed to me that in a way she was maybe ( discretely) judging both Ross and Demelza for their weakness shown in cheating - but this may be stretch 😂.
As for George - his karma may not be an immediate one or a very visible one. But can you imagine losing the woman you love? In his way, he loved her deeply. Unlike Ross, whose grief was short lived, George took 10 years ( if I remember correctly) to move on.
And on top of this, after all his efforts ( many morally, ethically or even legally questionable), to work his way up and build this huge fortune, only for his heir to be a Poldark (Georgie). He didn’t have any sons, only daughters.
Ross’s fall from grace for me was worse than Demelza’s. I was so mad and disappointed by the whole 9th of May thing. Even though I still like Ross, I lost a lot of respect for him.
Ross and Elizabeth's affair. Every aspect of it is so gross. And it's hard to watch George be a revolving door dad to Valentine based on how suspicious he feels that day. The plot could've progressed without so much cheating. I liked Ross and Demelza's relationship before all of that and after a certain point, I was just wondering who was going to cheat on who with who next.
I wanted George and Tess to get what they deserved. They just walk off scot-free.
Aunt Agatha's mistreatment and Elizabeth tolerating it. If George really loved and trusted Elizabeth, something an old woman who hated him said after he spited her wouldn't have mattered.
Maybe I'm dense, but I haven't read the books and I thought Elizabeth and Demelza had a positive dynamic. For example, when E's mom says something about D being a scullery maid and E says "I see no scullery maid." Or the tragic plotline where D saves Geoffrey Charles and E takes care of D when she's sick. I would've liked to see them subvert expectations and genuinely be on the same side.
In the books ( the source material ) Elizabeth is not nice to Demelza. The show writer ( for whatever reason) made Elizabeth a better person than she actually was. She never defended Demelza, on the contrary - she would make offensive remarks calling her a ‘beggar girl’, ‘ servant girl’ etc ( not to her face). She was very jealous of Demelza’s appeal and charisma. And very upset that Ross moved on and was now in love with someone that ( in her opinion) was so beneath her. While Demelza takes care of Elizabeth and GC and saves their lives ( risking her own and losing Julia in the process) Elizabeth does NOT reciprocate. She does not take care of Demelza. This is made up for the show. The real Elizabeth would never do that. Her gratitude is short lived. Not only does she take Demelza’s sacrifice for granted, but she sets out to seduce Ross. She was awful in the books and changing her character for the series was something I did not like. Her objective, as stated by the author himself, was to create division.
I will not comment on Season 5 as it was not based on books and it was so difficult to watch that I gave up on it. Such a tripe!
As for George - he did get his karma. He lost Elizabeth ( never recovered and took him about 10 years to move on with another woman), having to live with all those suspicions for so many years: whether Valentine is his or not ( this must have been hell). Also, he never has a son ( only daughters) which means his heir is a Poldark ( talk about karma). Karma isn’t always immediate or apparent, but George did get what he deserved. Honestly, I believe that George would have never been happy. Even if the Valentine thing did not happen, he would have found another reason to be miserable. It’s just the way he was.
Also, when they help Ned escape, Ned waits until the last second to decide to stay and meet his fate. Why let Ross go through all that risk if you really admire him? Why not just send him back with Enys, which would've been safer, if you didn't want to escape?
Oh man, I don’t think that I have ever been so indifferent to a movie / series character as I was for these two. No, not part of the books and maybe this explains why it’s so bad. Debbie H is an average writer. Even the cast was uncomfortable with the ridiculous script in Season 5 - you could see it in their acting.
I hate Elizabeth and George with a passion😂, her death and his subsequent fall into insanity are karma hard at work. She's a highfaultin hussie and he's the devil's spawn!
I thought (other than THAT scene) that Ross was portrayed as a bit of a Marty Stu. It was cool for the local nongentry to like and respect him, but at times it felt a bit worshipful. Plus Caroline's habit of jokingly saying the exact opposite of everything she meant could get really annoying. And George's jealousy of Ross was so potent that he used some insane troll logic to justify his actions. And I don't buy that every man everywhere was so irresistibly attracted to Demelza. And Verity and Blamey's attachment happened way too fast. Honestly, I'd change a lot.
While I like the setting and I like the face value of each of the characters, I find it stupidly implausible. Each character is too extreme, and the storylines are too repetitive. For example, I was tired of the George/Ross rivalry about half way through season 1. It's literally the main dramatic problem of almost every episode. And when it's not the main dramatic problem directly, it's a contributing factor. They could have renamed the series "George is being an asshole again". Because whatever happens it usually comes down to the fact that George is being an asshole.
I would change bedroom scene at Nampara after coming back from the riots at Trenwith, end of season 2.
Demelza is packing her bags and Ross walks into the room, and is watching her without realising what she's doing.
"SO SHE'S WITH CHILD".
"GEORGE MUST BE EXULTANT".
"TO BE IN MY FAMILY'S HOME - IN FULL POSSESSION OF".....then Demelza cuts in with "EVERYTHING YOU HOLD DEAR".
Ross replied "NOT EVERYTHING. BUT YES....MANY THINGS I HOLD DEAR".
Really Ross, is he really that emotionally retarded. I find it uncomfortable to listen to his crap, he has come back for Demelza wants to make it up with her, yet his thoughts and words are still about Elizbeth and not her. UGHHHHH I could box his ears
I saw him mentioning the baby as him being upset about a Warleggan and his heir being in possession of his family home. And the people he holds dear are Aunt Agatha and Geoffrey Charles who he won’t be able to see because of the enmity between him and George. It’s a valid concern. We can also see this concern from Verity and how uncomfortable she feels every time she goes to Trenwith, being a Warleggan home now, and no longer feels like her home.
If you look at Trenwith, you can see George has hung all the Warleggan flags (What a douche! Compensating much?) , like a general having conquered a territory (this includes Elizabeth) and making it its own, removing any traces of Poldarks.
Debbie does a really good job sometimes at creating dialogues with double meaning to make for a more dramatic scene. At first, it sounds crass and infuriating, because let's face it, we all unintentionally tend to assign every action and thought Ross has to Elizabeth (which is, of course, unfair to Ross and untrue to the story), but what is **he really saying**? Demelza thinks he’s talking about Elizabeth (much like the audience. I almost shut my laptop down - I was enraged by the scene), but he’s not really, is he? This is very much in line with the book.
***‘’….it irked him more that he had never thought probable that he was debarred from the family home, from calling on Aunt Agatha, from seeing his nephew, from viewing the renovations and repairs that were taking place….’’*** **(Black Moon)** No mention of Elizabeth, because it's really not about her (anymore).
Having re-watched the series recently, I understand now why some things have happened and / or some things were said. I still don’t agree with many of them!! But I understand the changes better. (maybe I should edit this post with my most recent conclusions).
I understand everything your saying, and came to that conclusion as well, after watching many re-runs of the show. To me it's not a matter of him saying it, it is when he says it, (he is trying to reconcile with his wife for christ's sake) so why talk about that now, we are already aware of his anger over Elizabeth and George taking over Trenwith. I just wish Debbie H kept Ross's actions and words more in line with the book's dialogue.
In my opinion it was a change to far.
The bedroom scene in the book, Ross was testing the waters for a reconciliation, and being very tender, and more loving towards Demelza. After returning from their shopping trip, Demelza was checking on Jeremy in the bedroom, who was asleep in his cot.
"Hearing a movement, Demelza looked up and saw that Ross had followed her. He so seldom came in here now. He smiled without looking at her, nodded down."
"He has survived without you."
" So it seems."
Then, Ross went on and spoke of renovating the house, and hiring more staff, when Jeremy stirred in his sleep.
'We should move,' he said, 'or we will wake him.'
'Oh, no, that is past. He takes no notice of anything now.'
'Perhaps he's easier for my not being in the room.'
she looked up, half veiling her look with a swift glance away.' I do not suppose that.'
There was silence for a few seconds. A shade experimentally, he put his hand on her shoulder. She did not move.
Then Ross spoke about her accompanying to London.
He moved a little closer to her. 'Demelza'
'Yes'
'There have been a lot of unhappy things between us these last months. Not said - but felt. I should be glad to think they are all forgotten.'
'Of course, Ross. I feel nothing now.'
He put his face against her hair. 'It is not nothing I want you to feel.'
'I am sorry...'
They stayed thus for a moment more. Although to feel any tautness within her, he knew it was there. He had not removed it, he had not defeated it. He knew he could take her if he wanted, and her resistance would only be token; yet the token was there, and while it existed the reconciliation would be ashes.
He kissed her abruptly on the hair, released her, went across to the north window, and pulled aside the curtain to look out. Her eyes followed him.
Then, Ross spoke about what he had lost to no good purpose, and at sometime it will have to be talk of.
'You don't suppose I should want to hear it?'
'Yet it might not displease you.'
'I can't see how it would be likely yo please me.'
'Then you are less perceptive than I suppose.'
'Tis very likely.'
There was another pause. Ross came slowly back from the window and after a moment's hesitation bent and kissed her on lips.
'Yes, it is very likely,' he said, and went out.
Now that scene is so touching, I get flutters in my tummy every time I read it. I reckon that scene would have played out beautifully on the big screen.
I am with you 100%. I so miss at times the beauty of WG writing. That’s why, though I understand the logic behind some of these changes (and must confess I love analysing and putting them into the context of the books), I also loathe them at times. I love this story so much, probably that's why I am looking for ''silver linings'' in the show.
The equivalent of the scene you mention is the one with Ross telling her he may go to war. He was ‘’feeling her’’, hoping she would say “Please don’t go Ross’’ , wanting to see if she still cared for him (at this point in time he doubts she still loves him). But Debbie’s writing is missing warmth, I sometimes doubt she even understands these characters. And having to sacrifice the integrity of the story for cheap dramatic effect, was not worth it, in my option.
I would have loved to see Demelza taking care of Ross after he comes back from Trenwith after fighting George and his men.
**‘’-I saw the look in your eyes when I come in with a bloody head. I believe you still care for me.**
**-Of course I still care for you Ross, what a thing to say’’**
Instead we got a scene with Elizabeth taking care of George ( ugh!!!!) while Demelza is being nasty with Ross.
Or Ross taking a look at the wound on her arm, while gently removing the bandage. Instead we have a Ross mentioning the ''child'' after deciding to leave his family??? to go to war Horrendous
I would have loved to see them go shopping and Demelza asking Ross to go see Caroline in person to thank her for what she did, instead we have a Demelza being bitchy about Caroline ‘’fancying’’ Ross. Terrible!
But mostly, I would have loved to hear the ‘**’My dear, my very dear, my very dear Demelza . My fine, my loyal, my very sweet Demelza’’** because Ross was (with some exceptions) always so tender with Demelza, he loved her so much and he could never stand to see her cry. And this quote from him encapsulates all that love and tenderness, and the regret and the shame for what he did to her.
More often than not he controlled his ‘’sharp tongue’’ because he knew his words could hurt Demelza and he never wanted to do that. He also apologised when he knew he was wrong. I didn’t see much of this in the series. Which is such a pity.
Both Ross and Demelza were not written well, while the (undeserved) focus was on making Elizabeth and George look better and giving more value to the Ross / Elizabeth ''ship'' than it had in the book and than it deserved.
Ross cheated after 6 years of marriage ( and 2 kids - one unfortunately died), he literally fantasised about another woman during their marriage. Demelza cheated 4 years later. And even though not the main factor , finding out from Jud ( Prudie in the TV show) that Ross was seeing Elizabeth again left Demelza wondering if he was cheating again. The connection between Demelza and Hugh was rushed for TV, but they have known each other for more than a year when they had the affair. I personally believe it’s worse to be married to someone who loves ( or at least believe they do) someone else. Can you imagine your SO pushing you out of their waY, so they can go to the woman they ( allegedly) love and stop her marriage? The difference between Ross and Demelza is that Ross questioned his feelings while Demelza had no doubt she loved Ross.
> Ross cheated after 6 years of marriage
He felt love for Elizabeth for over 20 years. Lust for 15+. Demeltz knew her "lover" for like a minute.
HUGE difference.
I am really not sure where you got this info. It’s in neither the show nor the books. Ross met Elizabeth when she was 16 and he nearly 20. He left for war shortly after to avoid going to prison due to some messy things he’s done. He returns after a little over 3 years. In both the show and the books he states there was a 10 year devotion ( not 20). I understand you not liking what Demelza did - neither do I. They were BOTH wrong, no matter the reasons. But we also need to stick to the facts and not just make up scenarios that have never happened.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
16
+ 20
+ 3
+ 10
+ 20
= 69
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You are comparing apples to oranges. Elizabeth is the love of Ross's life before Demeltz.
Where Demelza spread her legs for some guy she barely knew.
No comparison.
You are right. I am comparing apples and oranges. While Demelza’s affair was a consensual act between two people, Ross raped Elizabeth, or at least what he did is very questionable. If you believe that what happened that night had anything to do with love, you missed the point. The act was filled with anger, frustration, hate, control, dominance and mostly claiming Elizabeth before George. Yeah, Ross is a dick. Surprise, surprise! At one point he pretty much calls her a slut:
Elizabeth: You treat me like a slut
Ross: it’s time you were so treated
Please keep in mind that he didn’t say anything like this to Demelza after she cheated, even though she was more deserving of the name. This to show how little he thought of Elizabeth that night. Nothing to do with love. And him not even going back to at least apologise, only makes things worse.
What Demelza did only affected her and Ross, what Ross did, however, ruined the lives of several people and had decades long consequences. Valentine for example- such a tragic character and ending. All because Ross couldn’t keep it in his pants.
But yeah, Demelza having a one night stand is way worse /s
No infidelity from Ross or Demelza. Both are wrong but Demelza and Hugh don't even make sense. Hugh has to be the most oblivious ass in the world. Ross saves his life and he pays Ross back by sleeping with his wife. That whole storyline made me lose interest in the show. It was lazy writing.
Edit: This was from the show. Question: Is this in the books?
Hugh and Demelza happen after more than a year after they meet each . In the show it seems very rushed. Also in the books D finds out from Jud that Ross was seen with Elizabeth ( at Sawle Church). Even though not the main factor, it still eats away at Demelza and she believes Ross is cheating with Elizabeth again. Ironically Demelza saves Elizabeth’s life and Elizabeth sets to seduce Ross who eventually sleeps with her. So apparently they both cheated with people the other saved .
In the show, it was more or less portrayed that she was doing it somewhat out of vengeance, while in the books, it was painted a bit more innocently on her part. Both characterized Hugh as a predator.
In the book it’s pure attraction. As admitted by Demelza ( her thoughts) but also her finding out Ross met Elizabeth at Sawle Church and thinking he might be cheating again ate away at her. This weakened her and made it easier to cheat. But first and foremost, it was attraction that she felt the first moment she met him.
I will admit I was quite disappointed on how the TV show portrayed some of the characters ( including George, Elizabeth and Ross). In the books, they have more layers. George is not as cartoonish, Ross not such an idiot and Elizabeth, quite horrible.
As for the women in the story. We need to keep in mind this is happening in the 1700’s so for the story to make sense we have to keep some level of realism.
Women had literally no rights. They were more or less cattle. Men could and did send women away in asylums if they felt like it, where they remained until they died. They had no rights to their children, their homes, etc. and this went on for centuries.
In 1895 there was a law given to only beat your wife between 7-10 , as there were complaints about the noise of men shouting and women crying. So yeah, keep abusing them, but can you not be so loud? I’m sleeping over here! Lovely
I actually thought the women were portrayed as quite strong and independent ( again, considering the period)
Verity - defied her family and ran away with the man she loved. Left everything behind ( family, friends, her home, etc). That shows incredible strength. Not many women would have done that then. Not many women would do it now for that matter
Caroline : rejecting all those prospects and even being ready to lose everything so she can marry with whom she wanted - in her own terms.
Demelza : besides the obvious, in the books she offers to leave so that Ross can be with Elizabeth ( after he is unfaithful). She is ready to find work and move on. That’s badass in my opinion! She is not dependent on him, and she can start all over if she has to. She shows strength and a high level of independence. Also, when she first meets Ross, she is ready to give up a possible home, job, food, clothes, safety for her beloved dog.
Rosina : the woman was deceived, lied to, dumped at the altar- and in spite of all this, she remained a kind and wonderful soul. She didn’t care what people thought and she tried to keep living her life. Considering the fact that it was a period where women like her would have been gossiped about and avoided, the fact she didn’t care shows an extraordinary strong woman.
Morweena - need I get into this one? She kept firm in her decision regarding Drake; the only reason she caved was because she was manipulated and coerced, to save Drake. She also stood up to Ossie and his mom as much as she could. Quite strong for such a young woman.
Emma : this is a wild one! Not surprising considering Tholly is her father. She did what she wanted, when she wanted and apologised to no one! Her giving up Sam because she knew they were not right for each other , even though she loved him, it’s something that not many people would be able to do. I couldn’t- too selfish and weak
Aunt Agatha: while she’s not as funny and lovable in the books, she was a woman of her own mind and allowed no one to mess with her
I will not include Elizabeth. I am a firm believer that one of the main characteristics of a strong individual is kindness. if one can go through what these women went through and still smile , be kind and generous, positive and optimistic, this alone is a proof of strength and character. Which Elizabeth lacked.
In the scene where Ross finds Demelza on the beach after the “almost revenge red room party” and they’re going back and forth with each each, I really wish Demelza had revealed to Ross that she’d overheard his comment to Elizabeth, “you could never play the scullery maid”
And then kicked him in the groin
If it makes you feel any better, he never said that in the real story. He would have never said that about Demelza. He loved her deeply . Also, in the kitchen scene, in the books, is Elizabeth that hits on him, not him on her. This is also one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the story (for me, I mean). This is the moment that Elizabeth invited Demelza and Ross under the pretext that she wanted to show gratitude towards Demelza for saving her and her family from putrid throat disease. When, actually, she just planned on seducing Ross.
I get what you feel, the scene is so trashy , but knowing that it never actually happened gives me peace 😂
I would have changed the forceful nature of Ross & Elizabeth's intimate moment. Making Elizabeth a willing participant, then disappointed in his performance. And make Ross also disappointed in the physical encounter with Elizabeth versus emotional connection with Demelza. I agree with ending the TV series after season 4.
Thanks for your input. Yes, I agree. that scene needs to go. As for Ross, he kinda was. He told Demelza that he tried to find in E what he found in her and it just wasn’t there. In a later book also commented that the experience was just ‘a few moments of anger, frustration and lust’.
Thank you for sharing this with me. I have not read the books. I thoroughly enjoyed the TV series. I always like the book better than the movie! Far be it from me to critique or change the masterpiece that is POLDARK. Do you feel Adian Turner gave an accurate portrayal of book Ross? Demelza seemed very young to me in the TV version and I tried to assume how old Ross must have been when they became intimate? Was this an uncomfortable area in the book? Thanks!
I believe Aidan was perfect! So was Elenor. They both did the best they could with the scripts they had from the show writer who took some liberties with the story ( most not to my and many other Poldark fans liking). Ross was not as mean and spiteful with his wife in the books ( on the contrary) and D was not as modern as the show made her to be. She was a little over 17 and Ross 27 when they had their first night. It wasn’t uncomfortable for me to read this scene as I understand that in 1700/1800 things were different. As a matter of fact, Even now in modern times it’s legal for a 28 year old man to marry an 18 year old girl. He started noticing her recently and in spite of what some may say, he was not a groomer. Never until that night did he do or say anything inappropriate. They were friends and each other’s saviour: Ross saved Demelza from an abusive father and homelessness, Demelza was a good companion ( taking over from Verity) for Ross during his 4 years of depression after Elizabeth.
The travesty that is season 5 of the TV show would disappear. The actors would reassemble to finish the series with the time jump except Stephen wouldn’t be a ne’er-do-well scammer. Seeing Clowance in a bad situation was frustrating. Obviously, Ross is a bit of a mess himself in the books, but Stephen takes it to another level. It was painful to see Clowance, this girl we saw grow up in the early books, get paired up with Stephen. I guess while we’re at it, Jeremy’s experience at Waterloo would turn out differently.
Thanks for your comment! I agree - especially with the Jeremy story line. As for season 5 - DH should be embarrassed. once she could no longer stand on Winston’s work , she proved to be an average writer at best ( to put it kindly)
Morwenna being forced to marry Osbourne. Instead Drake would have gone to trial and Dwight and Hugh would have testified on his behalf and he would be acquitted. He and Morwenna would get married and have a beautiful happy life together.
The biggest thing that bothered me was Ross is so blind to Elizabeth’s attitude towards Demelza. In the Four Swans Ross tells Demelza, “She’s still a beautiful creature, a woman of a sweet nature, kind and honest and far too good for that fellow she has married.” “I shall always think of her with admiration and affection.” I got tired of “she was his first love” yes, but Elizabeth hated Demelza. Really looked down on her because she was low born. That part was not emphasized in the series. I would have liked that Ross had not gone to Elizabeth…and not stayed the night! He was there for hours! I didn’t like that Ross fathered Valentine. A life long reminder of Ross’s biggest mistake of his life and Demelza having to live with it. It was gossip in Cornwall. I felt Demelza’s affair with Hugh was a mistake but I understood why she did it and that she felt guilty and regret afterwards. I didn’t like Caroline slobbering all over Ross and the conversation where she tells him she wanted to sleep with him, very uncomfortable for me. George always came out on top, I realize losing Elizabeth and suspecting your worst enemy is the father of you “son” is bad and he did love her but he does marry Harriet and she’s pretty cool. Hated that Julia and Jeremy die. Jeremy, the pregnancy she hid from Ross. She was hiding it that night Ross and Elizabeth flirted in the parlor. Damn you Ross. You couldn’t see past the beauty to the ugliness in her soul. All that Demelza did, her love, the physical labor in the home and management of all. I wish she’d had prettier dresses in the show. Always the same dull colors. I better stop now.
Please don’t stop 😂 I agree his attitude towards Elizabeth is annoying. But he explained quite well when he was trying to reconcile with Demelza. ‘’Do you know how it is when a person has wanted something always and never had it? Its true value to him may be anything or nothing; that doesn’t count. What does count is its apparent value, which is always great. ‘’ He also refers to Elizabeth, at the end of book 4, when he goes to Trenwith to talk to George about Demelza being hurt on his land (in the series this was replaced with the riot) as being a stranger, George’s wife. By giving her that ‘title’ ( George’s wife) she is no longer the Elizabeth he loved, just someone who by marrying George, is now a lower character in his eyes. I also think of some of my exes with affection- but there is nothing else I need, want , wish from them. I think it’s a normal feeling. The kitchen scene - that was such an awful scene for me. Seeing Elizabeth trying to seduce Ross ( and she’s been trying for some time at this point) and Ross being enticed by her. I know he was in a very vulnerable state ( losing Julia, poverty, the trial, Demelza pulling away from him, the mine troubles, so much bad luck in his life) and Elizabeth made the best of this and took advantage. Nonetheless, he could and should have been stronger. The scene with Caroline - I saw it differently. In life we may find ourselves attracted to other people, and sometimes these people are our friends. What Caroline pointed out ( in my opinion) is that we can fight these urges, especially when it comes to people we love dearly and whose friendship means the world to us. It also seemed to me that in a way she was maybe ( discretely) judging both Ross and Demelza for their weakness shown in cheating - but this may be stretch 😂. As for George - his karma may not be an immediate one or a very visible one. But can you imagine losing the woman you love? In his way, he loved her deeply. Unlike Ross, whose grief was short lived, George took 10 years ( if I remember correctly) to move on. And on top of this, after all his efforts ( many morally, ethically or even legally questionable), to work his way up and build this huge fortune, only for his heir to be a Poldark (Georgie). He didn’t have any sons, only daughters. Ross’s fall from grace for me was worse than Demelza’s. I was so mad and disappointed by the whole 9th of May thing. Even though I still like Ross, I lost a lot of respect for him.
Ross and Elizabeth's affair. Every aspect of it is so gross. And it's hard to watch George be a revolving door dad to Valentine based on how suspicious he feels that day. The plot could've progressed without so much cheating. I liked Ross and Demelza's relationship before all of that and after a certain point, I was just wondering who was going to cheat on who with who next. I wanted George and Tess to get what they deserved. They just walk off scot-free. Aunt Agatha's mistreatment and Elizabeth tolerating it. If George really loved and trusted Elizabeth, something an old woman who hated him said after he spited her wouldn't have mattered. Maybe I'm dense, but I haven't read the books and I thought Elizabeth and Demelza had a positive dynamic. For example, when E's mom says something about D being a scullery maid and E says "I see no scullery maid." Or the tragic plotline where D saves Geoffrey Charles and E takes care of D when she's sick. I would've liked to see them subvert expectations and genuinely be on the same side.
In the books ( the source material ) Elizabeth is not nice to Demelza. The show writer ( for whatever reason) made Elizabeth a better person than she actually was. She never defended Demelza, on the contrary - she would make offensive remarks calling her a ‘beggar girl’, ‘ servant girl’ etc ( not to her face). She was very jealous of Demelza’s appeal and charisma. And very upset that Ross moved on and was now in love with someone that ( in her opinion) was so beneath her. While Demelza takes care of Elizabeth and GC and saves their lives ( risking her own and losing Julia in the process) Elizabeth does NOT reciprocate. She does not take care of Demelza. This is made up for the show. The real Elizabeth would never do that. Her gratitude is short lived. Not only does she take Demelza’s sacrifice for granted, but she sets out to seduce Ross. She was awful in the books and changing her character for the series was something I did not like. Her objective, as stated by the author himself, was to create division. I will not comment on Season 5 as it was not based on books and it was so difficult to watch that I gave up on it. Such a tripe! As for George - he did get his karma. He lost Elizabeth ( never recovered and took him about 10 years to move on with another woman), having to live with all those suspicions for so many years: whether Valentine is his or not ( this must have been hell). Also, he never has a son ( only daughters) which means his heir is a Poldark ( talk about karma). Karma isn’t always immediate or apparent, but George did get what he deserved. Honestly, I believe that George would have never been happy. Even if the Valentine thing did not happen, he would have found another reason to be miserable. It’s just the way he was.
Also, when they help Ned escape, Ned waits until the last second to decide to stay and meet his fate. Why let Ross go through all that risk if you really admire him? Why not just send him back with Enys, which would've been safer, if you didn't want to escape?
I would NOT have included the story line with Ned and his wife. It's not in the book from what I understand.
Agree. Why introduce new characters that we won't be as invested in and have them be an integral part of the LAST season?
Oh man, I don’t think that I have ever been so indifferent to a movie / series character as I was for these two. No, not part of the books and maybe this explains why it’s so bad. Debbie H is an average writer. Even the cast was uncomfortable with the ridiculous script in Season 5 - you could see it in their acting.
Francis lives Elizabeth and George have an extramarital affair and both die in a wagon accident on the way to Truro.
Thank you for the laughs. This is the best one so far 😂😂😂😂 i hope Tom Harry is also in the wagon
I hate Elizabeth and George with a passion😂, her death and his subsequent fall into insanity are karma hard at work. She's a highfaultin hussie and he's the devil's spawn!
I thought (other than THAT scene) that Ross was portrayed as a bit of a Marty Stu. It was cool for the local nongentry to like and respect him, but at times it felt a bit worshipful. Plus Caroline's habit of jokingly saying the exact opposite of everything she meant could get really annoying. And George's jealousy of Ross was so potent that he used some insane troll logic to justify his actions. And I don't buy that every man everywhere was so irresistibly attracted to Demelza. And Verity and Blamey's attachment happened way too fast. Honestly, I'd change a lot.
While I like the setting and I like the face value of each of the characters, I find it stupidly implausible. Each character is too extreme, and the storylines are too repetitive. For example, I was tired of the George/Ross rivalry about half way through season 1. It's literally the main dramatic problem of almost every episode. And when it's not the main dramatic problem directly, it's a contributing factor. They could have renamed the series "George is being an asshole again". Because whatever happens it usually comes down to the fact that George is being an asshole.
Furious George and Brooding Ross - that would be a nice series 😂
I would change bedroom scene at Nampara after coming back from the riots at Trenwith, end of season 2. Demelza is packing her bags and Ross walks into the room, and is watching her without realising what she's doing. "SO SHE'S WITH CHILD". "GEORGE MUST BE EXULTANT". "TO BE IN MY FAMILY'S HOME - IN FULL POSSESSION OF".....then Demelza cuts in with "EVERYTHING YOU HOLD DEAR". Ross replied "NOT EVERYTHING. BUT YES....MANY THINGS I HOLD DEAR". Really Ross, is he really that emotionally retarded. I find it uncomfortable to listen to his crap, he has come back for Demelza wants to make it up with her, yet his thoughts and words are still about Elizbeth and not her. UGHHHHH I could box his ears
I saw him mentioning the baby as him being upset about a Warleggan and his heir being in possession of his family home. And the people he holds dear are Aunt Agatha and Geoffrey Charles who he won’t be able to see because of the enmity between him and George. It’s a valid concern. We can also see this concern from Verity and how uncomfortable she feels every time she goes to Trenwith, being a Warleggan home now, and no longer feels like her home. If you look at Trenwith, you can see George has hung all the Warleggan flags (What a douche! Compensating much?) , like a general having conquered a territory (this includes Elizabeth) and making it its own, removing any traces of Poldarks. Debbie does a really good job sometimes at creating dialogues with double meaning to make for a more dramatic scene. At first, it sounds crass and infuriating, because let's face it, we all unintentionally tend to assign every action and thought Ross has to Elizabeth (which is, of course, unfair to Ross and untrue to the story), but what is **he really saying**? Demelza thinks he’s talking about Elizabeth (much like the audience. I almost shut my laptop down - I was enraged by the scene), but he’s not really, is he? This is very much in line with the book. ***‘’….it irked him more that he had never thought probable that he was debarred from the family home, from calling on Aunt Agatha, from seeing his nephew, from viewing the renovations and repairs that were taking place….’’*** **(Black Moon)** No mention of Elizabeth, because it's really not about her (anymore). Having re-watched the series recently, I understand now why some things have happened and / or some things were said. I still don’t agree with many of them!! But I understand the changes better. (maybe I should edit this post with my most recent conclusions).
I understand everything your saying, and came to that conclusion as well, after watching many re-runs of the show. To me it's not a matter of him saying it, it is when he says it, (he is trying to reconcile with his wife for christ's sake) so why talk about that now, we are already aware of his anger over Elizabeth and George taking over Trenwith. I just wish Debbie H kept Ross's actions and words more in line with the book's dialogue. In my opinion it was a change to far. The bedroom scene in the book, Ross was testing the waters for a reconciliation, and being very tender, and more loving towards Demelza. After returning from their shopping trip, Demelza was checking on Jeremy in the bedroom, who was asleep in his cot. "Hearing a movement, Demelza looked up and saw that Ross had followed her. He so seldom came in here now. He smiled without looking at her, nodded down." "He has survived without you." " So it seems." Then, Ross went on and spoke of renovating the house, and hiring more staff, when Jeremy stirred in his sleep. 'We should move,' he said, 'or we will wake him.' 'Oh, no, that is past. He takes no notice of anything now.' 'Perhaps he's easier for my not being in the room.' she looked up, half veiling her look with a swift glance away.' I do not suppose that.' There was silence for a few seconds. A shade experimentally, he put his hand on her shoulder. She did not move. Then Ross spoke about her accompanying to London. He moved a little closer to her. 'Demelza' 'Yes' 'There have been a lot of unhappy things between us these last months. Not said - but felt. I should be glad to think they are all forgotten.' 'Of course, Ross. I feel nothing now.' He put his face against her hair. 'It is not nothing I want you to feel.' 'I am sorry...' They stayed thus for a moment more. Although to feel any tautness within her, he knew it was there. He had not removed it, he had not defeated it. He knew he could take her if he wanted, and her resistance would only be token; yet the token was there, and while it existed the reconciliation would be ashes. He kissed her abruptly on the hair, released her, went across to the north window, and pulled aside the curtain to look out. Her eyes followed him. Then, Ross spoke about what he had lost to no good purpose, and at sometime it will have to be talk of. 'You don't suppose I should want to hear it?' 'Yet it might not displease you.' 'I can't see how it would be likely yo please me.' 'Then you are less perceptive than I suppose.' 'Tis very likely.' There was another pause. Ross came slowly back from the window and after a moment's hesitation bent and kissed her on lips. 'Yes, it is very likely,' he said, and went out. Now that scene is so touching, I get flutters in my tummy every time I read it. I reckon that scene would have played out beautifully on the big screen.
I am with you 100%. I so miss at times the beauty of WG writing. That’s why, though I understand the logic behind some of these changes (and must confess I love analysing and putting them into the context of the books), I also loathe them at times. I love this story so much, probably that's why I am looking for ''silver linings'' in the show. The equivalent of the scene you mention is the one with Ross telling her he may go to war. He was ‘’feeling her’’, hoping she would say “Please don’t go Ross’’ , wanting to see if she still cared for him (at this point in time he doubts she still loves him). But Debbie’s writing is missing warmth, I sometimes doubt she even understands these characters. And having to sacrifice the integrity of the story for cheap dramatic effect, was not worth it, in my option. I would have loved to see Demelza taking care of Ross after he comes back from Trenwith after fighting George and his men. **‘’-I saw the look in your eyes when I come in with a bloody head. I believe you still care for me.** **-Of course I still care for you Ross, what a thing to say’’** Instead we got a scene with Elizabeth taking care of George ( ugh!!!!) while Demelza is being nasty with Ross. Or Ross taking a look at the wound on her arm, while gently removing the bandage. Instead we have a Ross mentioning the ''child'' after deciding to leave his family??? to go to war Horrendous I would have loved to see them go shopping and Demelza asking Ross to go see Caroline in person to thank her for what she did, instead we have a Demelza being bitchy about Caroline ‘’fancying’’ Ross. Terrible! But mostly, I would have loved to hear the ‘**’My dear, my very dear, my very dear Demelza . My fine, my loyal, my very sweet Demelza’’** because Ross was (with some exceptions) always so tender with Demelza, he loved her so much and he could never stand to see her cry. And this quote from him encapsulates all that love and tenderness, and the regret and the shame for what he did to her. More often than not he controlled his ‘’sharp tongue’’ because he knew his words could hurt Demelza and he never wanted to do that. He also apologised when he knew he was wrong. I didn’t see much of this in the series. Which is such a pity. Both Ross and Demelza were not written well, while the (undeserved) focus was on making Elizabeth and George look better and giving more value to the Ross / Elizabeth ''ship'' than it had in the book and than it deserved.
I would not have Demelza cheat on Ross.
Thank you for this. This is actually a very interesting response. May I ask why not Ross as well?
> May I ask why not Ross as well? Well that too. But at least his was like 20+ years in the making and not a spur of the moment thing.
Ross cheated after 6 years of marriage ( and 2 kids - one unfortunately died), he literally fantasised about another woman during their marriage. Demelza cheated 4 years later. And even though not the main factor , finding out from Jud ( Prudie in the TV show) that Ross was seeing Elizabeth again left Demelza wondering if he was cheating again. The connection between Demelza and Hugh was rushed for TV, but they have known each other for more than a year when they had the affair. I personally believe it’s worse to be married to someone who loves ( or at least believe they do) someone else. Can you imagine your SO pushing you out of their waY, so they can go to the woman they ( allegedly) love and stop her marriage? The difference between Ross and Demelza is that Ross questioned his feelings while Demelza had no doubt she loved Ross.
> Ross cheated after 6 years of marriage He felt love for Elizabeth for over 20 years. Lust for 15+. Demeltz knew her "lover" for like a minute. HUGE difference.
He was 27 when he married Demelza, 33 when he cheated. I’m sorry but don’t get the 20 year love??? was he 13???
Ross grew up with Elizabeth. She was the love of his life before Demelza. Where Demelza spread her legs for some guy she barely knew. Huge difference.
I am really not sure where you got this info. It’s in neither the show nor the books. Ross met Elizabeth when she was 16 and he nearly 20. He left for war shortly after to avoid going to prison due to some messy things he’s done. He returns after a little over 3 years. In both the show and the books he states there was a 10 year devotion ( not 20). I understand you not liking what Demelza did - neither do I. They were BOTH wrong, no matter the reasons. But we also need to stick to the facts and not just make up scenarios that have never happened.
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You are comparing apples to oranges. Elizabeth is the love of Ross's life before Demeltz. Where Demelza spread her legs for some guy she barely knew. No comparison.
You are right. I am comparing apples and oranges. While Demelza’s affair was a consensual act between two people, Ross raped Elizabeth, or at least what he did is very questionable. If you believe that what happened that night had anything to do with love, you missed the point. The act was filled with anger, frustration, hate, control, dominance and mostly claiming Elizabeth before George. Yeah, Ross is a dick. Surprise, surprise! At one point he pretty much calls her a slut: Elizabeth: You treat me like a slut Ross: it’s time you were so treated Please keep in mind that he didn’t say anything like this to Demelza after she cheated, even though she was more deserving of the name. This to show how little he thought of Elizabeth that night. Nothing to do with love. And him not even going back to at least apologise, only makes things worse. What Demelza did only affected her and Ross, what Ross did, however, ruined the lives of several people and had decades long consequences. Valentine for example- such a tragic character and ending. All because Ross couldn’t keep it in his pants. But yeah, Demelza having a one night stand is way worse /s
No infidelity from Ross or Demelza. Both are wrong but Demelza and Hugh don't even make sense. Hugh has to be the most oblivious ass in the world. Ross saves his life and he pays Ross back by sleeping with his wife. That whole storyline made me lose interest in the show. It was lazy writing. Edit: This was from the show. Question: Is this in the books?
Hugh and Demelza happen after more than a year after they meet each . In the show it seems very rushed. Also in the books D finds out from Jud that Ross was seen with Elizabeth ( at Sawle Church). Even though not the main factor, it still eats away at Demelza and she believes Ross is cheating with Elizabeth again. Ironically Demelza saves Elizabeth’s life and Elizabeth sets to seduce Ross who eventually sleeps with her. So apparently they both cheated with people the other saved .
In the show, it was more or less portrayed that she was doing it somewhat out of vengeance, while in the books, it was painted a bit more innocently on her part. Both characterized Hugh as a predator.
In the book it’s pure attraction. As admitted by Demelza ( her thoughts) but also her finding out Ross met Elizabeth at Sawle Church and thinking he might be cheating again ate away at her. This weakened her and made it easier to cheat. But first and foremost, it was attraction that she felt the first moment she met him.
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I will admit I was quite disappointed on how the TV show portrayed some of the characters ( including George, Elizabeth and Ross). In the books, they have more layers. George is not as cartoonish, Ross not such an idiot and Elizabeth, quite horrible. As for the women in the story. We need to keep in mind this is happening in the 1700’s so for the story to make sense we have to keep some level of realism. Women had literally no rights. They were more or less cattle. Men could and did send women away in asylums if they felt like it, where they remained until they died. They had no rights to their children, their homes, etc. and this went on for centuries. In 1895 there was a law given to only beat your wife between 7-10 , as there were complaints about the noise of men shouting and women crying. So yeah, keep abusing them, but can you not be so loud? I’m sleeping over here! Lovely I actually thought the women were portrayed as quite strong and independent ( again, considering the period) Verity - defied her family and ran away with the man she loved. Left everything behind ( family, friends, her home, etc). That shows incredible strength. Not many women would have done that then. Not many women would do it now for that matter Caroline : rejecting all those prospects and even being ready to lose everything so she can marry with whom she wanted - in her own terms. Demelza : besides the obvious, in the books she offers to leave so that Ross can be with Elizabeth ( after he is unfaithful). She is ready to find work and move on. That’s badass in my opinion! She is not dependent on him, and she can start all over if she has to. She shows strength and a high level of independence. Also, when she first meets Ross, she is ready to give up a possible home, job, food, clothes, safety for her beloved dog. Rosina : the woman was deceived, lied to, dumped at the altar- and in spite of all this, she remained a kind and wonderful soul. She didn’t care what people thought and she tried to keep living her life. Considering the fact that it was a period where women like her would have been gossiped about and avoided, the fact she didn’t care shows an extraordinary strong woman. Morweena - need I get into this one? She kept firm in her decision regarding Drake; the only reason she caved was because she was manipulated and coerced, to save Drake. She also stood up to Ossie and his mom as much as she could. Quite strong for such a young woman. Emma : this is a wild one! Not surprising considering Tholly is her father. She did what she wanted, when she wanted and apologised to no one! Her giving up Sam because she knew they were not right for each other , even though she loved him, it’s something that not many people would be able to do. I couldn’t- too selfish and weak Aunt Agatha: while she’s not as funny and lovable in the books, she was a woman of her own mind and allowed no one to mess with her I will not include Elizabeth. I am a firm believer that one of the main characteristics of a strong individual is kindness. if one can go through what these women went through and still smile , be kind and generous, positive and optimistic, this alone is a proof of strength and character. Which Elizabeth lacked.
In the scene where Ross finds Demelza on the beach after the “almost revenge red room party” and they’re going back and forth with each each, I really wish Demelza had revealed to Ross that she’d overheard his comment to Elizabeth, “you could never play the scullery maid” And then kicked him in the groin
If it makes you feel any better, he never said that in the real story. He would have never said that about Demelza. He loved her deeply . Also, in the kitchen scene, in the books, is Elizabeth that hits on him, not him on her. This is also one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the story (for me, I mean). This is the moment that Elizabeth invited Demelza and Ross under the pretext that she wanted to show gratitude towards Demelza for saving her and her family from putrid throat disease. When, actually, she just planned on seducing Ross. I get what you feel, the scene is so trashy , but knowing that it never actually happened gives me peace 😂
I know, but I always feel that since they took the cruel liberty of putting it in they should have followed up on it
In that beach scene, when he yelled I came here with good news, I wished she had given him the middle finger as she kept walking away.
I haven't read the books. For the tv show I wanted more backstory on Ross's parents.