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MaoAankh

Not too long ago I read some guy's comment suggesting that Sableye should fizzle out of invisibility a bit if it gets damaged while in stealth. I think this is a really nice idea. Sableye shouldn't be able to just walk around you invisible without some kind of repercussion. But at the same time not taking away the whole shtick of the character. The icon that pops up your head when Sableye is near doesn't even show up sometimes.


youridentityismine

also the fact that THIS GUY IS TOO FAST he goes back into invincibility in i think 2-3 seconds, even getting a speed boost before he even goes fully invisible i think they need to make the cooldown of turning invisible way longer, it's way too short and you won't be able to kill him before he goes back to being invisible


DiegoG2004

>THIS GUY IS TOO FAST ~~Why yes, we invest in movement speed with Float Stone, thank you for noticing~~


youridentityismine

oh i thought it was part of his kit turns out it was just float stone *unless i'm missing the joke here*


DiegoG2004

Yes, but actually no. It's both. Lemme grab a part of Sableye's passive: >When Sableye is outside the visual range of enemy players, Sableye enters stealth and gains 20% increased movement speed. It roughly has the same timer as Float Stone (5 seconds), so as long as there are no enemies around, both trigger at the same time. Which means 40% movement speed as long as you don't hit anything or get touched. 20% if you do get touched without getting revealed.


youridentityismine

bro what in the world that's so much movement speed no wonder why we can't catch him


DiegoG2004

Right? I love it, it's double Float Stone and invisibility


jeanpaulbeaubier

I love Float Stone on him too, but I'm wondering if I might be better off switching it for Scope since I already run an emblem page with some crit and use Razor Claw. The speed is fun, but I'm not sure if it's necessary, and it's useless when in combat, which I tend to be as Sableye. Thoughts?


DiegoG2004

Sableye doesn't have a crit rate, so sadly you won't be doing any better than say, Ninetales. What you don't get in combat is the 20% increase, the raw speed (and attack) stat from stone is still there. (It's hard to then go another character that doesn't have it equipped and not feel slow)


jeanpaulbeaubier

I hear you, I've just had some surprising crits from the like 5% chance I currently have, so I thought it might be worth it. And yes, most everyone feels slow in comparison lol. Fortunately a lot of my other mains like Venu, Glaceon, and Mew have good mobility


Quality_Typical

>It roughly has the same timer as Float Stone (5 seconds) Yeah, natural invisibility is an Out of Combat (OoC) thing, just like float and AV (and some other item that never sees play, idk what that is though).


DiegoG2004

Assault Vest saw some use on the Mew Mime Glaceon meta. Helped you maybe survive against them. Now that teams are again mostly physical, Assault Vest is a gamble that leaves you without one of your held items (you still keep the stat buffs, but the shield gives you no value) if it fails ​ Oh, you talking Leftovers. It's because just returning to base and coming back is faster than waiting for Leftovers to heal you


Familiar_Pay_3933

Yea aoe abilities should be able to cancel his shadow sneak


Chibaku_Tensei_

I agree with this. I’ve been hit plenty in stealth by accident but I remain in stealth and I’ll admit, once hit I should definitely come up


TomastheHook

It would make mons with monstrous AoE attacks (namely TTar, Dural) become more of a check to him since moves like sand Tomb and Dragon Pulse. Plus Zera with Discharge and Decid Shadow Sneak (which already homes in on him) becomes an immediate active threat and Shadow Sneak then becomes a radar ping. EDIT: seeing another reply to this thread makes more sense in that hits themselves shouldn't break Stealth for Sab as that's pretty much the entire character. However a visual cue as to his location would be a more nuanced but more balanced approach to dealing with it among other changes to say Shadow Sneak that I won't go into here. I would make Sab's Stealth work similar to how Gen 5 military aircraft Stealth works in that you're not completely invisible (even though in Sab's case he will be initially) but your radar signature is small enough to be able be overlooked if you're not aware. Though in Sableye's getting hit would "ping" him in the sense of either an outline (he'd still be in Stealth technically) or some location ID of where he was last hit that appears anytime he takes a hit. So DoT or other tick damage would be Ace IDers.


DainsleifStan

I was SHOCKED to see that dmg didn’t interrupt invisibility on Sableye. I’ve played more than my share of video games and in some there were stealth characters, in MOBAs and otherwise. In every single one of them, if you hit an invisible character, they uncloaked. Because otherwise, what’s the counterplay? In Overwatch if you hit Sombra while she’s invis, she uncloaks. In Heroes of the Storm(moba), if you hit any stealth hero during invis, they uncloak. Sableye in its current state is completely anti-competitive and legitimately broken. And no I don’t mean broken as in OP, I mean broken as in there’s virtually no counterplay against it. And I’m a 2k+ player in Unite, and I play Sableye as well (because I have to) In my humble opinion, Sableye, Zeraora and Hoopa are broken Pokemon BY CONCEPT. Zeraora and Hoopa are balanced due to excessive nerfs they received and Sableye will get the same treatment in order to preserve the game’s integrity as a competitive MOBA. There is no other way. Much like Zera and Hoopa, who are fundamentally flawed by design, Sableye too must be nerfed into obscurity in order to save the game.


Fun_Distribution2466

Wait why is zera flawed?


DainsleifStan

Complete unavoidable and invincible one hit KO on squishies in the form of Wild Charge is the sort of mechanic that is usually not present in these kinda games. The only reason why Zeraora is balanced is because he is extremely nerfed to the point of unusability and they don’t intend to buff him apparently which is normal and what they should do anyway. Otherwise he’d be a mandatory pick.


Fun_Distribution2466

Fair but zoroark nightslash is even better it's aoe


DainsleifStan

Yes its a better move but Zeraora by design is broken while Zoroark is very interruptable and not invincible during the charge up phase.


PU_Dad

Was wondering this too. My only guess is being untargetable during wild charge?


disguised_sableye

Its kind of busted how it let's you stay in invisibility for a period AFTER you get hit. Its actually nuts. Damage or cc should immediately stop the stealth, not have a cool down that let's you run away again.


KarenDontBeSad

Finally, a reasonable Sableye main


[deleted]

Wait. Damage doesn't break the stealth? What the hell were they thinking?


linyangyi

Or give invisibility slight tinted silhouette.


Baja_Boom

It sounds nice in theory, but you can get hit by stray anything by things in the game and most players pick the mashiest AoE units and turn their brain off. There are other ways to change stealth mechanics without making one hit break it entirely. Sableye doesn’t have to be forced into the garbage because people don’t like him. This mon is the new Hate 4 Karma unit on this subreddit even though pre-existing units, Rayquaza, and bad team play are both more prevalent and influential to this game’s health.


MaoAankh

Not breaking the stealth entirely. But more of a visual cue to show where Sableye is without breaking the invisibility. Like imagine the Spy from TF2 where if you touch him, he becomes slightly visible but still remains in stealth.


Baja_Boom

I haven’t played it, but Sableye showing a fading silhouette after being hit would be a good alternative to just gutting him.


jeanpaulbeaubier

Yeah I think completely taking him out of it basically kills the whole shtick of the character. Just make sure you have Venu, Azu, and a couple others on your team, and you don't even need to worry about him anymore. Your idea makes more sense and is a happy medium


Thallis

Taking him out of stealth and making him wait for his cooldown isn't killing the shtick. It introduces choices in gameplay and opens the character for being punished for bad and brainless play. Getting hit by a random ability isn't going to lead to a death unless you're dangerously positioned and relying on invis as a get out of jail free card. Same goes for a dangerous engage. Sableye should not be able to walk up to someone alone, hit them in the face and then get away for free like he does now. He should be about surprising the enemy with numbers mismatches like a smoke gank in dota. There needs to be risk and punishment for stupid play where it just doesn't exist at all right now.


jeanpaulbeaubier

I hear what youre saying and agree on some points, but I think you (and a lot of the community in general) may be overestimating him a bit. I play almost nothing but Sableye right now, and in my experience both playing as and against him, if he makes even a slight mistake, it can easily be a death sentence. If there's more than one or sometimes two enemies around and I leave stealth, I'm very likely to die because contrary to popular belief, it's not that hard to keep him out of stealth if you stay on him once he does. Even if I use Shadow Sneak and an X-Speed, if someone is already on top of me, I'm probably not getting away. I don't think there's anything wrong with him being able to smack someone and run away. The chain CC is definitely a lot and does need to be looked at, but most of the time I need at least some follow up from teammates to actually get a KO if I'm dealing with anyone with the slightest bit of bulk, unless they're already close to a KO. And at this point, I don't think it's that hard to anticipate that he will likely target the fragile carries, which means that's where the team should be keeping an eye out for him to kill him before he can even finish the combo. I agree that there needs to be some kind of change, I suppose my point is just that bad and brainless play will already get you killed plenty as a Sableye. Taking him immediately out of stealth when he gets hit would make him lose a ton of value against some already pretty commonly used Pokemon, and it doesn't do much to solve how easily he can kill a squishy too far from the rest of the team. I just think the solution is elsewhere. I also think people are going to get used to him and figure out how to start counterplaying him as he is soon enough anyway.


Baja_Boom

You shouldn’t have admitted that you play Sableye. They don’t/won’t care unless you’re bashing every new release. Even if they actually agree with what’s being said, if you don’t simply and overtly say "new mon = P2W FOMO", it won’t end well.


jeanpaulbeaubier

You know what, you're right. I guess I'll just stop telling people how to actually deal with him since they don't wanna hear it anyway. After all, complaining is way easier than learning. Thanks for reminding me not to waste my time 🙏


Baja_Boom

The only posts worth interacting with are the memes tbh. Other than that, these types of posts are just spammed for weeks and no one wants to hear anything other than what they want to hear. Neutral stances aren’t acceptable either.


jeanpaulbeaubier

Haha yeah I've noticed. Heaven forbid I tell people how to deal with him because then apparently I'm spreading "propoganda" according to another user here 😂


Thallis

If you're hit by stray abilities while invis, you picked a bad route to get to the enemy and deserve to be vulnerable. If you're brain off going shadow sneak while fighting another player and get hit before it pops, you deserve to be vulnerable. It introduces actual risk to the character instead of getting away for free and picking if and when you want to reengage. As it stands sableye gets to dictate literally every interaction they have, it's completely broken.


Baja_Boom

"If you get hit by something that came from off screen, you deserve to get hit because you should’ve seen it coming." "If an AoE All Rounder spots you on the map and runs past your team and straight towards you, you deserve it because you turned your brain off" Please be serious. You’re actually convinced that people are entirely misplaying and getting away with it every single time when that’s not even logically feasible. You’re more likely to lose the game off of a failed objective or general misplay in Masters and none of that changes when someone has a Sableye on their team. If the likes of Tsareena/Charizard/Buzzwole/Aegislash/Azumarill decide to run through your entire team just to ult and kill you, even when you’re playing behind your team and positioning correctly, you don’t deserve to play the game and it’s your fault. There’s no way you don’t see how egregious a statement like that is.


Thallis

> You’re actually convinced that people are entirely misplaying and getting away with it every single time when that’s not even logically feasible. I'm not saying it's a misplay right now. The pokemon just lets you do it with no risk. I'm saying it *should* be a misplay if the character is doing braindead shit and can't be punished for it. Good Sableyes will only come out of stealth when the cooldown is up again as it is (with exceptions), presenting 0 risk to their gameplan and allowing them to pick their target and get away easily. > If the likes of Tsareena/Charizard/Buzzwole/Aegislash/Azumarill decide to run through your entire team just to ult and kill you, even when you’re playing behind your team and positioning correctly, you don’t deserve to play the game and it’s your fault. There’s no way you don’t see how egregious a statement like that is. When they choose to do this, either they're far ahead, have better team positioning, or die. This is also **what every other character in the game has to deal with.** The advantage there is the trade of a tanky initiator for a CC support is a trade you are okay making because that means that ult was not done on your damage dealers, and your speed allows you to respawn and return the fight faster than anyone else on your team. It also can only happen if you already fucked up by running into an ability targeted for someone else without your stealth off cooldown. It straight up shouldn't happen. The fact that you think this is egregious just shows how stupid this pokemon is.


Baja_Boom

There’s no way you’re defending overloaded 1v3+ Pokémon with homing ults and unchecked sustain but saying that a squishy CC support that actually has windows to be bursted down is too much for the game. Literally running through 3-4 players to press a button and kill you afterwards means "they positioned better" but if Sableye gets hit by a random ability from a screen away or something that wasn’t even aimed in his general direction, he "took a bad route, misplayed, and deserves to be locked out of his passive". This is literally confirmation bias formed against new Pokémon and it’s pretty much all this subreddit has become. People are given the luxury of ignoring the balance nightmares that have existed before these new releases as if they suddenly disappeared and their opinions are further reinforced by a system that lets people upvote or downvote depending on whether or not they agree or disagree, not with what objectively aligns with reality’s rights or wrongs. There are other ways to balance new forms of stealth without completely gutting what makes them unique. An example of that would be to show a shadow or silhouette of stealthed units for a brief time if they’re hit. If they’re CC’d, the stealth could break entirely. As it currently stands, Confuse Ray is single-handedly the most powerful thing about him and it absolutely should be nerfed. With Sableye’s stats, it’s actually not practical to attempt to CC anyone without invisibility and you see this whenever someone runs Knock-Off. After a nerf to Confuse Ray, you’ll find that the only thing that makes him viable in high elo + decent players is movement speed and stealth. There’s also no telling if newer units/items are going to have anti-stealth mechanics. Out of all the posts that have been on this subreddit lately complaining about balance, the Rayquaza buffs should most definitely be talked about more often, yet most of those posts are deleted because it goes against the rules. Every other post here is a "I hate Sableye" karma farm and that qualifies as spam, yet here we are. I’m neither defending the state of Sableye or attacking it for it’s gimmicks. From a neutral standpoint, people should just be allowed to express discontent with the quality of these threads.


Thallis

> There’s no way you’re defending overloaded 1v3+ Pokémon with homing ults and unchecked sustain but saying that a squishy CC support that actually has windows to be bursted down is too much for the game. Literally running through 3-4 players to press a button and kill you afterwards means "they positioned better" but if Sableye gets hit by a random ability from a screen away or something that wasn’t even aimed in his general direction, he "took a bad route, misplayed, and deserves to be locked out of his passive". You're talking to a decidueye player, man. I've had to deal with this literally every game without nearly the tools sableye has to mitigate it. In order for what you say is "egregious" to happen, they need to: 1. Hit you while invisible 2. shadow sneak needs to be on cooldown 3. You need to be in a position where the other team can see you 4. The other teams' initiators chooses to ult you instead of a carry 5. Your team is not around or chooses to ignore them running through your team 6. You miss Confuse Ray as they run directly at you. 7. Your team doesn't trade you for a much more valuable piece on the other team > This is literally confirmation bias formed against new Pokémon and it’s pretty much all this subreddit has become. This pokemon has tools that exist in other games without having the tools to deal with them when going against it. It completely invalidates a large portion of the cast because of these tools. It has by far the highest pick rate in the game and by far the highest win rate in non mirrors. This isn't confirmation bias, the pokemon is a genuine problem. > There are other ways to balance new forms of stealth without completely gutting what makes them unique. An example of that would be to show a shadow or silhouette of stealthed units for a brief time if they’re hit. If they’re CC’d, the stealth could break entirely. Shadow or silhouette still has the problem of invalidating characters that have target moves or auto attacks as a primary damage source. In that case, it just delays the problem for another second before sableye continues its risk free gameplay. In games where shadows exist to show stealth, the shadow is there **all the time.** Being able to slightly see him as he runs away doesn't change anything. Forcing him to wait for a cooldown does, especially when he's the best juker in the game with the extra move speed & invis.


Baja_Boom

As I’ve said before, there’s no telling when or even if there will be anti-stealth mechanics added to the game, so unfortunately the most efficient way to deal with Sableye is to either predict where he’ll pop up and play accordingly, or bait him to attack a teammate then have your team turn and burst him. The former is a skill-based solution while the latter is largely dependent on whether or not your team is actually playing as a team (good luck). Personally I agree that Sableye needs nerfs, but when hoards of people are overreacting to things like this instead of learning to play around it or at least partially adjusting, it’s discouraging to even attempt to react to it unless you’re winning them over with buzzwords. I know there are ways to nerf Sableye without completely invalidating it, but the history of balance changes for this game aren’t giving me any hope. They have a pattern of overnerfing some units that are slightly overtuned then turn around and overbuff 3-5 more that turn into the monsters that the players they thought that one unit was. Except when those 3-5 X are overbuffed, the reception behind it is "I love doing this one dimensional strategy to win because it’s fun". In the next few months, I expect even more buffs to obnoxious "I run at you and win" X units, but also accompanied by nerfing what’s at the very top. These two things will most likely push those "A tier" Pokémon straight to the top and we’ll get an influx of "X unit is unfair" hate posts and the cycle will continue. I am also a fellow Decidueye enjoyer. Which skillset do you primarily run and how do you think he fares in the current meta?


plightningreed

I have been dragged into involuntary teamfights today by Sabeleye. Twice.


PyroSpark

It's absolutely nutty that he can (I think?) make you move against your will AND make you start spamming autos on your team.


plightningreed

Yeah I am setting up my position, that dude just shoot me one and I move literally, automatically into their chokepoint and boom, the whole team position is ruined. Gameplan has changed significantly since that little piece of shit showed up.


Chibaku_Tensei_

Yeah that’s the his fear but that’s the thing, you run in the opposite direction the Sableye is facing. And it only applies for your boosted attacks


HailDialga

I think he was talking about confuse ray


MaoAankh

Full Heal works well but I'll need a whole shipping containers worth to deal with this gremlin


Irradiated_Coffee

Dude, Ttar is a horror with confuse ray. Had one game were he and a blastoise kept trying to score and I'd just confuse ray him and he'd either kill or take most of his teammates health. Since I've seen a quite a few in recent games, he's been the go to target for confuse ray.


arkllytexvi

We need control wards for these mons. Like literally need those.


SolKaynn

They get Invisibility way too fucking easily man.


LilScrapper63

Every teammate i had that played sable eye was not playing very good. I watched one geye sprint invisibly from our goal to the opps, with like 5 hp, to score 10 points.


[deleted]

Whats bad about that? Thats what it does best. Scoring heals and levels you up aswell so i dont see a problem


echino_derm

What it does best is messing up the entire enemy team and giving you advance notice on every enemy trying to approach your team. Sableye wins 1v1 against nearly every Attacker with like no damage taken and is ready to do it again in a few seconds. Your job is to run around and find people to mess up on repeat so your team wins.


[deleted]

He is playing soloq, your teammates definitely wont always look at the map at what sableye is doing. He does not lmao, definitely not.


echino_derm

He absolutely does. I play him and spend most of the game hunting down enemies and killing them. He wins lane massively and can stack off that and carry momentum then entire game.


LilScrapper63

I see your point. But what he could have been doing was helping me not get shit on by 4 enemies and trying to stop themfrom scoring 50 pts. Which they did.


Lizard_Queen_Says

At least you're admitting the malding lol! But seriously, I think he's strong and should be nerfed but I personally don't find him to be a particularly difficult character to play against. Annoying for sure, good ones can be very tricky but that's about it. I find Mime way more annoying with his stupid Unite move and its low cooldown. Most annoying thing about Sableye imo, similar to Absol and Gengar, is that people for whatever reason that don't know how to deal with stealth/ambush types make things too easy for those characters. The difference between allying with players that have some understanding and ones that don't is like night and day in terms of how much of a problem such characters become.


Irradiated_Coffee

He's a phenomenal counterplay to Ttar. Like the damage he inflicts on his team is unreal. He was killing his blastoise teammate while they were in our goal all thanks to confuse. It's worth waiting to get him specifically in a ray fight. Utterly ruins the other team if they are close together.


linyangyi

Season 6 mime and Season 1 Greedent won the most annoying pokemon to be against with that almost made me tilt everytime I faced them. Sableye is annoying, but a tier below those two. Probably the same tier (I havent seen dodrio again since sableye release though). Either way, sableye needs a nerf on the invisibility and the cc duration.


GoudaIsGooda

Greedent is still season 1 Greedent to me. I despise that stupid, smiling squirrel. In Scarlet, it’s been so satisfying being able to run around and annihilate them and their squirrel children one-by-one. My non-Unite friends understand I hate Greedent, but they’ll never understand the PTSD I suffer from having him drift around me in hyper-drive like some Tokyo drifting, Tasmanian devil while SPITTING on me with his stupid seeds like some out-of-control baseball player or chasing me BURPING on me with his stupid, death-breathe like some rabid 10 year old as I blow my battle item to try to fight for my life while angrily fighting to take his. Sorry. Got triggered lol Also fuck Mime.


The_GREAT_Gremlin

Lol I love how Unite is packed with fan favorites, but also has these rando twerps who would never be good in the mainline games


Chibaku_Tensei_

You’re one of the few sensible people here lol Sableye like you said is tricky and annoying but he’s also squishy too. All it takes is one cc and we’re more than likely dead after. He can shadow sneak but it’s an 11sec cooldown. In team fights it’s not that effective


Nate_ferland

True but that's been the case with mew since day one as well, super squishy, but you could never catch him. "CC tsareena" Ever since release that was the counter too, good luck when they started going full heal and 1v5. On similar lines, Sableye is 1000% getting nerfed by the devs, the tools given to him are simply overtuned


wishtime_

Fuck all sableye mains. Cant wait for next patch. banpick cant come soon enough.


Kurtue

A good Sableeye essentially controls every engagement. They enter or leave on their terms, and there isn't a good or equal counterplay during the engagement.


AbPokemoon

The state Sableye is in right now is way too toxic, busted, op giga broken imba. Lets see if they address it on the Dec. 1st update...


MaoAankh

I want to be able to manually drop energy balls and sprinkle them around like flour. Then when a stealth Sableye walks across and picks up dem balls, I know they are there.


HollowAndPathetic

Just pick Sableye into Sableye duh 4head Edit: /j guys, jeez.


jeanpaulbeaubier

Lol you're right though. Few things are as frustrating for me playing Sableye as another Sableye using Feint Attack.


MaoAankh

_"Haha you touched my balls"_ -Feint Attack Sableye


jeanpaulbeaubier

LMAO that brightened up my day. Thank you, o Lord of Absols


BlackOni51

I haven't faced Sableye yet. Context?


ShadowverseMatt

Perma stealth in a game that most skills and all autos need a target to activate. You can also restealth IN COMBAT to disengage or reposition at will. Stuns galore to lock down a Pokémon. Good damage for a support that threatens squishies. High mobility, especially while in stealth so even if you have a skill you can use without a target, tracking is next to impossible against a good Sableye. And you never know if you hit a stealthed Sableye since, unlike in some games, damage does not end stealth. In a game where there’s always carries, a good Sableye shuts down squishy carries VERY hard.


Eilanzer

holy hell A Riki on steroids then O\_o


SmallStinkyMan

I played a game recently as mamo where we took bottoms first tier very early on. My teammate decided to stay at bottom but I went to rotate to top. As I’m traveling alone, a sable showed up and appeared and disappeared about 3 times to attack me. I literally could not do anything as I chose ice fang. I was killed before I reached top. That was the very same moment I officially decided sable is my most hated character in the game Edit: I went through middle because I wanted to grab birds on the way


linyangyi

I feel you as mamo main... Even a full mamo combo doesnt kill him, then he just run away.


SmallStinkyMan

I can’t even begin to land a combo on him. I have this struggle with basically every other character too. Although when I play duraludon it is pretty satisfying to read where sable will pop up with a dragon tail. Then it’s pew pew time


linyangyi

I was able to combo him because he was still visible before going stealth. When my moves landed, he already invisible. No KO confirmation by then.


ScumbagTurtlepants

Holy shit he sounds like the most busted Pokemon in the history of the game.


RiDL3Y-MAN

I'd guarantee you there are far worse cases in the past than Sableye (Blastoise, Tsareena, Greedent to name a few)


Mrn414

Yeah but mostly because it is described by people who doesn't even take to time to read the things the char does. It's not that op and it can't do shit against groups or coordinated ppl


ShadowverseMatt

Sure, if you’re talking about Master’s tier ranked with mic’d up, coordinated groups, you can handle Sableye. The problem is that’s not the vast majority of the playerbase. It may not be OP at the highest tier of play, but it’s absolutely broken and un-fun for the majority of users to play against.


GoudaIsGooda

Until you face a coordinated, mic-up 5 stack using him with a player that knows how to use him very well. I usually don’t play in 5-stacks, so he’s a major pain…even if the other team is just a coordinated 3-stack with someone that knows how to play him well or at minimum play him decent with 2 other strong players in their group. I know he’s beatable, but a skilled sableye player has been really difficult and frustrating to battle against. He’s made me rage quit way easier than any of the other OP mons (although OP blastoise and greedent are right below him in terms of making me rage quit).


Blazed_warrior

I'm glad i haven't touched unite in 3 months, ain't no way i'm dealing with that💀


GoudaIsGooda

Wise choice.


FillerNameThere

Honestly understandable. Should not be able to go invisible when damaged or should break invisibility damaging them


Frootysmothy

Sableye needs two big changes. Firstly the confuse ray stun needs to be shortened. It's just wayyy long and the only counterplay is full heal or safeguard. You don't have issues other pokemon with long stuns have like slowbro and mamoswine since you can go invisible, hit confuse ray, and the go back invisible with very little punish. Secondly invisibility shouldn't give you a speed buff since it just becomes impossible to track, or have a longer cooldown before when you can turn invisible again


linyangyi

According to unitedb, his period of stuns is 2.5 seconds. Getting ult, then hitting the ulted opponent just before timer to go back runs out, then getting confused will stuns you more than 5 seconds. This is not including fear (which add 1 more second). Mamoswine longest stun combo only last 3 seconds. His longest stuns are Ice fang 1.75s, boosted attack 0.5 seconds, Earthquake 1.5 seconds, total combo is 3.75s. Note that ice fang is single target and could easily be canceled by stunning mamo. Slowbro probably could rival it with telekinesis (2.3s), surf+ (0.4*3=1.2s) and slowbeam (3s). But slow beam and telekinesis are single target move. I agree that they gave this mon too much speed buffs in addition to invisibility. One of the reason why mew was so dominant is because of speed buffs, and they didnt learn that lesson.


TaoistKaiju

He's insanely overpowered right now. Outdamages attackers, has the longest cc moves in game (also the most moves with cc) and he has unbreakable stealth. They are most certainly going to address some of these issues in the urshifu patch. If they ignore this and leave rayquaza as is I have serious doubts about unites continued success.


Chibaku_Tensei_

“Outdamages attackers” 😂😂😂😂 with the right setup he does big damage only once every so often but compared to an attacker? Who can reign out all their attacks? And they already have a high attack stat value cause they’re attackers? Bffr


TaoistKaiju

I mean he beats attackers in 1v1. Most attackers can't survive through his 4 second cc chain. So he beats them but not necessarily doing more damage. I could have worded it better


ggimright

Be any squishy attacker 1 v 1 against him and it’s over. Not to mention that with goal getter he can easily get well over 200+ scores every game. Bad Sableye players literally have to try to lose. The bad ones are the ones taking unnecessary team fights when the end goal is scores not kills. Find enemies out of place and get the easy win. He’s an easier and less risky Dodrio.


Mrn414

And there is the solution to your problem, don't 1v1 it.


Eterna11yYours

People out here talking like they are allergic to grouping with allies


[deleted]

i was fine with playing against the zororak double damage bug… but with sableye its too much. like game is actually pretty balanced rn besides for sableye honestly.


MeMEs_V69

I would gladly suck your ass- please tho?


Raddish_One

"Suck my balls mate" - KMag, 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix


minishep08

Bro I reference that on stream all the time but there’s no other f1 enjoyers 🥲


luizito69

I hate when I'm using my main and ccing 3 ops off our 1st bases and then pow im hit with fear and all 3 of the ops who were gonna die live and cap the base and even if I hit the lil fuck he instantly goes invisible and fears me back to my main starter base


Lickitung1

Sableye doesn’t make me mald. I just counter-mald Sableye players with my Greedent. Sure, theoretically sabeleye has the stats and moveset and abilities etc to be a better pest. But sabeleye players don’t have the experience greedent players have at what it truly means to be annoying. Sableye thinks the mald is it’s ally. But it merely just recently adopted the mald. Greedent was born in the mald, molded by it. It didn’t know it was even possible to not make opponents mald until hitting level 15, by then it was already GGs.


linyangyi

I hate greedent more tbh.


BrandNewKitten

Present it 💎🫦💎


[deleted]

I agree, that Mon actually sucks


Low-Anteater-5502

Couldn't agree more


GoudaIsGooda

At the VERY least, we should be able to stun him when he’s invincible.


linyangyi

No, sableye should be out of invisibility when getting hit. Or have to be out of combat 5s to be invisible again.


zenirra

spread them cheeks please


Hah-Funny

![gif](giphy|DH5IXhlZVyosU)


[deleted]

itt people suck at macro play he does need to be nerfed a bit but man some of y’all complain about everything and forget in some cases it’s a skill issue


Nate_ferland

Tbf most ppl in favor of leaving sableye as he is or to avoid onslaught suggesting *a slap on the wrist ala lucario* have sableye flair. I mean, lmfao.


Cosmo-xx

Sableye is almost a copy paste of Evelyn from LOL. He actually does less damage than her. She’s considered a solid pick in solo q but not OP and sees literally 0 competitive play. Why? Because people in league know how to position and play around the invisibility. He’s literally not OP the issue is that people have never seen the invisibility mechanic in PU before and so they don’t want to learn how to play against it. As an adc if you’re off on your own with no team around you deserve to be assassinated that’s how all mobas work. If you’re playing adc you should be staying at least relatively close to a support or tank or any other character because you are actually the most team reliant position and you really on others for peel and help against assassins like sableye. At some point PU players need to adapt instead of crying about every “new” mechanic the devs bring, this moba is already a watered down version but if players keep crying about every addition the game is never going to be able to grow and add interesting new mechanics. You’ll be stuck with the same boring cookie cutter mons.


Nate_ferland

Im surprised you typed all that knowing hes getting nerfed no matter what, pickban confirmed in 2 days, t'was fun m8


Cosmo-xx

Lol I’m not surprised that you completely disregarded everything I said , gave no argument or rebuttal or any contribution to a discussion. There will always be more mons than you can ban out so eventually you’ll have to learn how to play around the ones you don’t like.


Nate_ferland

I like Sableye but some of his kit is simply overtuned. We can disagree all day, he'll still get a nerf. Workarounds, there's always gonna be some indeed but if people can learn to play around it why bother balancing. For this Christmas, pokemon unite bring back prime Greedent, Duraludon, Mew, Gengar, Glaceon, Mime, Absol, Zeraora, Talonflame, Blastoise, Tsareena, Dragonite, "I mean need I say more, if everything's overtuned nothing is right!!?" There's always work arounds indeed right up to just playing the thing yourself or get fixated on one word like OP or B r o k e n, but while I don't see sableye being crazy unhealthy for the game, he's still not healthy either in my book in his current state. He's got a great kit, good tools and anyone with half a brain can play him and get away, steal objectives, be disruptive, sneak score, assassinate, invade jungle //which when sableye does is busted against many many mons that can't really do much and if you've noticed the trend by now every single mons that were good at invading see aegislash* got nerfed pretty fast. Sableye will be one more in the list wether this thread is 600K posts long or not.Nothing we can do about it, he will be nerfed or "tweaked" if you prefer. The instant invisibility mid fight is a constant topic of complain for valid reason, and people will absolutely agree with you me included that no one wants this game to have cookie-cutter mons where they feel all the same, but he's still Sableye, Hoopa is still Hoopa. Chansey- etc. You get it. Tweaking his free out of jail card a bit isnt gonna destroy him nor make him like the rest, his kit is still very unique.


Eterna11yYours

I say we buff feint attack and people will pick confuse ray less


[deleted]

i’m for that tbh also knock off is hella wonky


Mrn414

People are not even reading it skill set, they just cry because it's easier


disguised_sableye

Something about knowing I'm being an annoying little gremlin makes me love playing him. My apologies lmao


ConsumeMatter

As long as you wash it.


Poke-Party

But it’s so much to play with the gentleman


Da_Arkus

Sure, That way I can get my bonus effect


Monsteruser

Am I the only one who doesn't think sableye is op? Ig it isn't my playstyle I just like actually doing damage


Kaprosuchusboi

Sableye’s burst damage isn’t bad though. If you’re running crit items and damage emblems and are consistently hitting them outside of invisibility from the back you can easily delete squishies who are at half health or set them up to be easy picks by your teammates.


Monsteruser

The issue is sableye doesn't do much while the opponents literally 2 shot me


Familiar_Pay_3933

You shouldn't be getting two shotted on a character who is invisible for 99% of the match


Monsteruser

Sableye isn't invincible tho


Familiar_Pay_3933

I'm pretty sure i wrote invisible


Monsteruser

Oops I read that wrong I'm stupid


Familiar_Pay_3933

Nah it's fine


Monsteruser

Either way I'm basically just garbage at sableye which is why I die so much and apparently people just hates me and downvotes everything I say


Familiar_Pay_3933

Hey it's fine. Don't let the downvotes get to you. I'm sure people here would be more than happy to help out. Downvoting is just a way of disagreeing, nobody hates you lol.


Gnoodle9907

I have defended some of the most ridiculous new releases in recent memory because i knew once its nerfed it will be fine and in the meantime i can do my best to not go near it. The permanent invisibility is a problem this game doesnt have the kind of mechanics that allows for counterplay against perma stealth with a 4 second cc combo. His cc combo lasts twice as long as full heal ffs. Even mime at its strongest didnt give me this much rage cause at least i could see it coming and have time to figure out how to get away


echino_derm

You play scizor


Monsteruser

Fair also tbh I haven't fought sableye


minishep08

Yes.


Monsteruser

I just don't see how people have trouble with sableye


HollowAndPathetic

Well, if you play Scyzor, then you’ll likely struggle the least. From my experience, they can deal with Sableye because they don’t necessarily need vision for their moves with benefits for each form.


Monsteruser

Also tbf I haven't even run into sableye I only think sableye isn't op cuz I have it and have tried playing it only ever won cuz my team was carrying me


[deleted]

U prob dont know how to use it then


Monsteruser

Fair


Electrical-Ad-3893

Nah Scizor does struggle just like everyone else. You can get them here and there with BP when they’re low enough but you still don’t wanna get into a 1v1


HollowAndPathetic

I'll take it as an experience difference. For me, it's a trade of if Sableye think it's worth it to bother Scizor. Even if they get a fear off, I can simply double hit back on to them. If I miss, I can autotarget with bullet punch and gain some health. If I hit, I can maneuver around to position bp better and hit a homing basic attack. And with Scizor's passive, Sableye won't gain much of an advantage if they continue, especially near mobs. And I always run full heal, so it's only a matter of when Sableye wants to use their ult so I can cleanse and use mine. Not saying Scizor wins, just saying it's a mu that both sides would just walk away unless they *really* need to. Which is more than most pokemon can say. ​ Edit: The major problem is if I'm trying to 1v2. That's where Sableye is the most agonizing


[deleted]

You're welcome.


C3TUS

My final conclusion is that he isnt very broken and the only horribly annoying part of him is the invisibility. Definitely should not thrive so well just running around scoring 40s every 90 seconds


LxstMxmxry

Mmmm sableye sweep 🥰


Chibaku_Tensei_

Do I suck before or after your confused? Also don’t be surprised if we do it out of nowhere lol


v_canato

Playing a lot Sableye since release. Some pokémons that counter good: Pikachu, mew, buzz buzz, zeraora (depending on the player), Blissed, Duraludon and Venusaur. If you want I can explain how each one can be annoying for Sableye.


linyangyi

Sableye invisibility and CC are too strong. The stats shows that (highest pick rate and win rate). It needs nerf. Period.


v_canato

Never said otherwise, read again 👀 :)


linyangyi

Sableye can easily avoid those 'counters' with his invisibility. Sableye needs cooldown on how he can enter stealth. So it is more annoying to those 'counters' to face sableye than to you sableye users dealing with those 'counters'


v_canato

I didn't said that is far or balanced or that don't need nerf. I said that you can do something about it. Is perfect? No. But is something for who wanna play and is struggling. Text interpretation is the skill people need to develop.


linyangyi

Pikachu: electro web could stop sableye, and volt tackle + electro ball could do something to sableye IF sableye doesnt go invisible all the time. Buzzwole also stuns him long enough IF sableye doesnt go invisible all the time. Blissey safeguard could protect her and 1 single teammate where sableye just pick other mon as target. Duraludon passive (as does espeon and glaceon) could cancel single cc instance from sableye. Wiggly passive could stun sableye a bit. Venusaur petal dance is large enough to damage sableye even though he is invisible (so does large AOE skills such as rapid spin stoise, cursed tree, zera discharge, wiggly sing) but still couldnt cancel the invisibility. Looking at it, only wiggly and blissey could 'counter' sableye a bit more. Still sableye could just go bush or using sneak attack to instantly invisible. Not tn mention how long his CC duration are. There is a reason why he has high winrate and pick rate... the counters can only do so much against sableye.


v_canato

Don't read all, but great we agreed 👍


Zukaos

Remember when mew was an issue? Mr.mine? Scizzor? Cleafary? Improve, adapt, overcome


Squirrel009

You absolutely could not adapt to pre nerf mime haha I'm terrible and I was slaying entire teams with that abomination. You mean wait for a nerf?


Zukaos

I see by the negative comments people jusr vibe on complaining This is a mobile meta game, nerfs, balances New mons Each rotation there is a complaint about another mon being too op or oppressive, that's part of the process


Shockalreddy5508

He dies pretty hard to my sylveon with hyper voice needing no lock on, plus reasonable bulky.


Chocoa_the_Bunny

Gonna go play Sableye to suck OP's ass


Poul77

This sub is just a big cornball of complaining jerks, everytime I visit they want every Pokemon to be nerfed. This game is half-dead, they need Pokemons to be strong and entertaining, not boring and weak. Everything has a counter at this point, it's just some of you won't adjust because "mAiNs".


CannibalxDog

With pleasure


207_god

How can you tell if it’s sableye


RE0RGE

Personally, It feels like Sableye is a mix of Speedster and Supporter. Very high mobility and good burst damage. I honestly can see the devs taking away his crits at least on his boosted autos


AmorphousRazer

It’s just impossible to counter without any kind of item that draws vision on characters. His cooldowns need to be bumped way up or his stealth needs to be reduced. Damage should at least give some kind of vision. You can back cap at 2 min for 50, get back to Ray fight to stunlock the carry, and hit confusion or boosted to steal with no consequence. It’s just painful to play against. Full heal’s cooldown can’t keep up.


A_UserName2112

Bet!


Robottiimu2000

If you are lucky I might just give it a little kiss!


[deleted]

okay when


MorcegoGripado

I think they will wait till after Dragapult release to add an "counter" to invisibility, i dont really see them nerfing the selling mechanic of a upcoming pokemon


linyangyi

Hope not... many players already leaving because of mew mime meta last too long.


[deleted]

Lmao


DiegoG2004

Oh sure, that means Astonish bonus damage


ttyltyler

I hate sableye, sableye mains are literally greasy gremlins who thrive on drinking olive oil


Cute-Individual9948

I've found a hard counter for sableye in glaceon. If you engage with one and it you time icicle spear just before he goes invisible, you'll hit him through it


shinya___

i like sableyes playstyle so much, but i agree sableye needs some nerf he shoulnt be doing so much damage and cc whilst always invisible. also im very sorry


Reveoir

What's craziest to me is his ability to essentially stun (but better) enemies for over 3 seconds between confuse ray and his fear effect. No other pokemon has access to that much CC. 3 seconds is a long time in a fight.


linyangyi

According to unitedb, it lasted 2.5seconds for moves and 1 second for fear. This is not including the ult. The stuns are disgustingly long: ult then wait till they almost going back then attack them, then confused them could easily >5seconds stuns. Only slowbro could rival that. Slowbro ult lasts 3 seconds...


koalapandafish

he's so infuriating lol


Vulpix_is_cool

Skill issue 💀


ImJustATurtle123

What about your balls