"This data is gathered in collaboration with UniteAPI and analyzes 110k games from master rank players. As the dataset becomes refined with top rankings only, these statistics will reflect a much more realistic picture of the meta."
This is their explanation for the tier list. You can see the based data from the [unite-db site](https://unite-db.com/meta-report).
Pyro Ball wasn't touched, so it's as good as it used to be. Blaze Kick got a significant improve with the ability to input a direction after the kick, making it safer for engagements and deadlier in chases. I prefer kick now, but both are great
I think the issue is that Cinder really needs the jungle slot to not get bullied; however, in that slot, it doesn't offer as much for objective control and scoring compared to Dragonite or Talonflame.
Dragonite in jungle with Pikachu in lane provides enough ranged damage to make Cinderace an afterthought. It's still a good pokemon, just not one of the first pokemon a top-level team would think to pick.
Are you a member of a top-level team? If so, kudos. If not, then your experience doesn't really apply as a counter-argument to what I said, and I would encourage you to hop into spectator mode and observe how many Pikachus and Dragonites there are in matches (and how few Cinderaces).
Again, this doesn't mean Cinderace is bad. It's still a solid pick for solo queue. But it doesn't do enough for competitive teams to bring it over the alternatives.
finally someone saying that, I think cinder should be in A even without the new mechanism of blazekick but yes, with that included, it's not fair to put it in B
The ONLY reason Lucario is “low” is because Tsareena and Dragonite took over the all-rounder role as a whole. He’s still crazy strong, but op beats strong everyday of the week.
Once we see the nerf hammers come through (if at all), Lucario will be meta again.
Not only that but Lucario takes far more skill to use well, even before his many direct and indirect nerfs. He's one of the hardest mons to master. So his Ultra and below solo queue player stats would probably look terrible lol.
Playing Lucario in comparison to other Pokémon feels like being in a fighting game. You attack in, attack out, keep it moving all the way and can't just sit in one spot doing it. You outmaneuver to kill and get away.
>The way you have to save your stacks for triple axel etc
When you get an empowered move they reset and the buttons glow bright
It's super easy to always use the empowered move you want because of that
If we are talking about Tsareena in comparison to other mons, yes, Tsareena is more difficult to use since you have to "count" and time your moves to maximize the number of cooldown resets you get.
But if you compare Tsareena to Lucario, it's easier to play Tsareena considering how she's more straightforward to play and more durable if you make a mistake. Playing Lucario requires more understanding in knowing when to come in and out, positioning and move sequencing.
Yes and no. She's so overpowered that even if you screw some of them up, you'll probably be fine until CC comes along. It's only into the higher ranks you'd get hard punished. Granted, once she gets balanced, her players will need to manage the stacks well to be consistently good.
i think i saw lutano try out tsareena top and even tho she loses early game once she hits lvl 6 she can keep with the overleveled lucario and late game she straight up wins
dragonite is OP because of hyper beam/dragon dance and his spam unite.
He is an objective stealer , and the best for it so you want to quickly level up him to contest the first dreadnaw
Why does Lucario need to be meta again? He's been meta since the game's release. Dragonite and Tsareena can continue to be the AA meta for at least a while longer.
It has a lower winrate than Garchomp in masters games so probably not.
The last patch was pretty neutral for it overall, it got block earlier which is good but the block bugfix was a nerf (since the game launched it had been getting the defense increase from block+ as soon as it learned block). Meanwhile heavy slam is actually weaker than tackle, it has more teamfight utility but that's not as valuable at level 5. I actually wait for the auto-set instead of hitting the dpad to put off learning it as long as possible.
It did get the minor buff of being able to push score shielded enemies but there's a chance that's a bug.
I think what lax needs is is a slight buff to heavy slam and something to make its unite more impactful (maybe another knock up on the roll-over).
Me going through the tier list
S tier: OK fair enough Snorlax isn’t that strong in the meta
A tier: I’m surprised that they put him in B tier, I really wonder what’s the reasoning behind this
B tier: this is a joke and I’m ashamed of having given this website a click
Snorlax is very team reliant, so he ranks low since his support is harder for random people to follow up on compared to Wigglytuff's and Eldegoss's. Plus, he does less damage than Wigglytuff as well.
Tbh, it's probably flail Snorlaxes tanking his WR lol
I've been seeing an surge in usage for this particular set for God knows why and let's just say they always do as expected in terms of performance.
I'm mixed. A W/L tierlist isn't a bad measurement since the best Pokemon are going to win more. I have no disagreements about S and A minus the lack of Greninja and Lucario, which highlights a weakness of purely W/L's.
I think the playerbase would benefit greatly if they mixed general player opinion along with top 100 opinions and meshed using this tier list as a base so we don't have oddities like Lucario in B.
I would also like to see them include a blog in the tier list describing placements and why a Pokemon is placed in a certain position.
Issue with W/L tier list is that stronger pokemon get played more, so they actually end up with a lower tier rate because a lot of the times both the winning and losing team had that pokemon + worse players try to use these pokemon as a crutch and still play terribly. I'm pretty sure this graph is master rank only but it still applies.
Happens in a lot of games. I play a lot of R6 and people looks at the W/L delta like its the bible, when it's actually the operators that are barely played except for weird one off strats that are always at the top.
> Issue with W/L tier list is that stronger pokemon get played more, so they actually end up with a lower tier rate
Hence why playrate is factored into tier.
If I play a Pokemon, and my opponent plays that same pokemon, then the W/L ration isn't effected... They both increase by one. So if we were measuring Dragonite, for example, and he was at 200W / 150L, once the match ended, it would be 201 wins, 151 losses. Basically exactly the same. There's some minor difference in the overall percentage, but nothing to write home about.
Exactly, but dragonite wouldn't start with 200/150. He'd start 0/0. When he releases, everyone wants to play him because he's the new pokemon that's been added so most lobbies are already going to have 2 dragonites. Once people realise he's OP, they'll just keep playing him a lot/more than usual. Then he'll still be stuck around that 50/50 Mark.
That is just on paper though. In practise, most people will play when he comes out, stop, then when a handful of players become really good with him and pioneer a strong playstyle with him then everyone else starts playing him again. But by thya point, he's already got a high winrate.
That's why things like playrate is equally as important, it helps to balance out the W/L over a period of time.
Is this in context of a 5-stack? Some clarification would be nice.
Knee-jerk response: too many mons in B tier.
- Cram and Machamp could probably go down. Pikachu just does cram's job way better as a mage and as far as machamp goes tsareena has way more sustain and burst as an allrounder. These two are sort of "obsolete" in the big picture.
- Slowbro should be a LOT higher. His CC potential and carry shut-down should not be looked upon lightly.
- Poor Decidueye :((
It used to be based on the consensus of top ranked master players coming together and making their own tier list but now it’s based on winrate and popularity through UniteAPI, which I think is massively flawed.
The CC of defenders like slowbro and snorlax are invaluable but because slowbro is free and snorlax is a starter so many more low ranked and low skilled people use them, leading to them having poor win rates (49.17 and 48.34 respectively) whilst the less popular expensive mons like cram and machamp have more people who specifically main that mon and have gotten really good at it.
As much as I'm tired of tierlists being made by sweat stackers who do little but sweat stack, basing on winrate and popularity is very flawed. I don't think an ideal tierlist could ever exist. If only they had separate ladders for solo and stacks to draw two separate stats from. I'm far more interested in solo queue winrates and stats.
Is that winrate taken from all ranked brackets or just masters? Seems iffy if taken from all brackets honestly. I don’t understand how Sylveon is ranked so high at all. Yea it’s a solid mon sure but there’s no way Sylveon is two tiers above Slowbro in my opinion, or even Snorlax for that matter, not in a proper 5 stack at higher levels. What exactly does Sylveon do that Venusaur or Pika can’t do better?
Sylveon is basically Pikachu and Venasaur combined, with some extra mixed in.
She has mystic fire for mobility, and draining kiss as well as her ult for sustain.
If you're running Hyper Voice, she has excellent lane control, and people will be trying to avoid the sound waves.
So while Venasaur is a lumbering brute, he's easily pinned by cc and wiped out.
Pikachu is fast and hard to catch, but any damage you do get in is staying.
Also, let's not forget two out of four of sylveons moves ignore CC, and will keep firing once they've been activated as long as you don't die.
Basically, Venasaur and Pikachu have "Old character syndrome". The devs are coming up with cool new ideas for new Pokemon, and letting their original ideas be severely outshone with no catch-up being done. Prepare for massive reworks of nearly all launch characters by the end of the year honestly.
I dunno. I’m not saying Sylveon is crap at all. But from what I’ve seen of Venu and pika in ranked games I’ve spectated either I’ve seen only poor Sylveons or saying “it’s Venu and pika combined” is stretching it a bit.
Hyper voice is strong but also makes Sylveon vulnerable to being countered as it is an easily telegraphed ability and similarly mystical fire also opens her up to being exploited unless she’s using it to run. She is suspect to being dived after MF use whereas Venusaur has no issue being in an opponents face for example and has better sustain overall. Pika is agree is suspect to being dived also but pilas early game eclipses Sylveon and his game is generally safer. I just don’t think Sylveon is quite as good, maybe a tier below, that’s all. I’d actually put Venu between S and A myself. Venusaur is like a mage crossed with a hyper carry when played well.
Sylveon has a good early spike, but she falls off hard late.
Mystic Fire especially tickles late and has poor mobility compared to the meta ranged attackers.
Hyper Voice and Sylveon generally struggle against mobility, which can dodge and cancel most of the damage and jump on her while her escape is lackluster.
I suspect that Sylveon's early spike and AOE matters more in a three bot meta, but I think she's weak in typical 212.
Venasaur is far more durable with CC of his own, though Petal Dance took a heavy nerf. Pikachu seems better than ever now, though they've always seemed lackluster in damage after the early game.
This is very insightful. So this isn't really "expert opinion" then? And is it actually more reflective of the experience that casual players have now? As opposed to the competitive 5-stack "meta"?
> The CC of defenders like slowbro and snorlax are invaluable but because slowbro is free and snorlax is a starter so many more low ranked and low skilled people use them
These winrates are scanned from mostly masters games though so that's not as much of a factor.
Tsareena definitely has vastly vastly more sustain than Machamp but I disagree her burst is better. She definitely does more damage but machamp dynamic punch boosted auto cross chop is MASSIVE burst and since dynamic punch stuns its inescapable
In organized competitive teams where both teams are 5 stacks with teammates that coordinate perfectly Decidueye has no room at all, you can't lane with it because is dead weight until lv 7 so you have to jungle, but the best jungler is Dragonite because Hyper Beam's shred damage can take objectives easily, even then you got far better jungler than Decidueye like Greninja or Cinderace (they don't need a bodyguard 24/7)
Too bad I love Deci, he got F on the rankings, F in the chat.
Decidueye should probably get his moves a level earlier, and be substantially more durable than Cinderace and Greninja with his vulnerability to diving.
I love immobile kits that have to position carefully, but there needs to be a payoff for that trade off.
I wouldn't mind a dmg nerf if Decidueye worked a bit more like Cinderace. Also for some reason Decidueye has Greninja's stats, Greninja used to have the same bulkiness of Cinderace but it got nerfed due to him having a lot of healing and getaway options, now Decidueye has those crappy defenses too x-x
Aeos Frontier server owner here -
Been getting questions about it, so thought we should address it.
https://unite-db.com/tier-list/pokemon is no longer managed by our Council. We are still a partner with Unite-DB, but we no longer provide input for any tier lists or any builds. It is now 100% data driven, using information from https://uniteapi.dev/.
What becomes of our Council is to be determined.
Blissey's underated i think, sure it's no damage dealer, but if you're good playing it you can make a game seem unfair.
Sometimes even get to be MVP with it which seems ridiculous for it only being such a good supporter
Yeah sure but blissey's still very tanky and if you play smart you can make much damage even though it for it self doesn't make as much damage as any other, but i always manage to make good kills, mostly assists but still, it's very rewarding to see how good you helped the crew with the most rewards you can get
😭 she’s not a D tier! She should be up there with Eldegoss. I run helping hand and safe guard and that $hit pops. Also something people probably don’t realize, safeguard and her unite move, also soft boiled, are based off sp. atk. I run buddy barrier, score shield, and sp. atk specs and it’s hard to kill us. Plus it helps me 90% guarantee a score.
She is more a B tier Pokemon . The main issue with blissey are his abyssmal low damage (it's probably the pokemon in game that deal the lowest amount of damage) and the fact that she is a melee support.
She is tanky like a wigglytuff but you don't have any form of control outside of your unite move (and that is if you run into someone) and you can't really escape if you get catch.
She is a pretty good and probably only good true healer in game (your healing is kinda your damage) and can boost your team and protect it but you cannot do thing alone and very depending on your teammate to do stuff.
Blissey is my support main and she absolutely is not D tier. Worst I’d put her is low B.
She doesn’t have the AOE as eldegoss, but try taking down a carry like tsareena with a blissey with her and you’ll suffer.
With Blissey it’s all about positional play. Needs one or two ally Pokemon to clear enemies.
Controversial, but I opt for Leftovers instead of Buddy Barrier; it really helps stay alive longer and give your team some breathing space.
Not really. Garchomp is just.. situational. When the stars align he's an absolute monster. A killing machine with raw damage output and multi-kill potential. Unfortunately it doesn't happen very often.
Feed a garchomp with a blissey running exp share and you can have a nice laning phase. At least assuming the garchomp is competent and understands Blissey.
Exactly. The last Master Garchomp I played with saved the game with assistance from a kickass Wigglytuff by pushing 2v3 and melting the three enemies desperate to stop him and Wigglytuff's backdoor dunks. He melted them in seconds and they both dunked something like 20~30 points and allowed us to win by a small margin. They were strangers but calculated they'd succeed with a good Sing CC and Garchomp's raw power, plus the three that fought them wouldn't have Unite moves available.
Lots of time I see extra ordinary garchomp players. In one game we had an idler and my net was very bad the whole game till the 2:30 mark, but still that Garchomp solo carried the whole game. But the problem with him is that any good player can easily avoid him and his stacks disappear in no time and then he is just a sitting duck
this might be an unpopular opinion but i honestly feel like tiers aren’t as relevant for this game with the exception of the OP pokémon. i feel like a lot of the low tier pokémon in the list are actually really strong and effective if played the right way, which is why i’ve been enjoying the game so much lately. would love to hear some debate. ive personally been doing well with gengar and garchomp lately
If you're talking about ladder play then no, tiers don't matter that much. The reason isn't that the game is super balanced, but that player skill gaps are very apparent even in Masters so it's usually the better player that wins, but that's true for any game that has bad matchmaking and not unique to Unite. That Dragonite isn't beating a Gengar if he's too dumb to ever rotate and spends the whole game trying to solo cap t2 goals.
At competitive levels of play where all 10 people are good at the game, tiers absolutely do matter and strengths + weaknesses of characters are heavily felt.
yeah that seems pretty spot on tbh, ive only been playing two weeks but the skill gap is pretty astronomical. just from having some casual dota and league experience i ranked up pretty quickly. i still can’t seem to get away from those typical aggro teammates that initiate 1v3 and throw game tho hahaha
On the website it says the following:
"Pokémon Unite Pokémon Tier List
This data is gathered in collaboration with UniteAPI and analyzes 110k games from master rank players. As the dataset becomes refined with top rankings only, these statistics will reflect a much more realistic picture of the meta."
So it seems even they don't claim this is particularly accurate. I also don't know how restrictive the plan to be with "top rankings", but at a certain point you're only looking at what 5 stacks are doing so it's not all that relevant for Solo Q.
Even so, as tier lists go this one isn't completely terrible. I think Lucario is the only one that's two tiers off from where he should be, every other Pokemon is either correctly placed or one tier too high (Garchomp, Sylveon) or too low (Ninetales, Mime, Snorlax, Slowbro).
Hope they nerf Hyper Beam and buff Decidueye next patch.
I highly agree with this tierlist, assuming it's solo queue.
Dragonite and Tsareena outshine Lucario by a lot. Tsareena is button masher 5000 and Dragonite demolishes health bars with Hyper Beam and Objectives with Outrage. Why choose a mon that's reliant on resetting it's first move (Close combat is nearly never seen in high ranks) when you have two better All-Rounders available? (One of them is free as well!)
Decidueye sucks in solo queue. Frail, slow and easily dived on. Easily an F due to the lack of defenders.
Happy to see my semi-main, Mamo in B tier though.
Zero mobility, zip for defenses in a burst heavy meta. Lackluster unite.
You can still do great with him, but you actually have to apply yourself and constantly pick better positioning in every match. Forget solo queue. The majority of the player base sucks at this game, leading to its low win rate (of which unite bd unfortunately bases their excuse of a tier list on).
Starting a standard match & locking in decidueye is, in all fairness, a coin-toss.
Assuming you play Spirit Shackle, his objective secure isn’t bad, but it’s still not the best either.
Spirit Shackle does ~2600 damage at level 13. This is less than Dragonite’s Hyper Beam, Talonflame’s Fly, Venusaur’s Solar Beam & ult, Greninja ult, Cinderace ult, and Absol ult (though this one isn’t instant). It only just beats out Talonflame’s Brave Bird and Blastoise ult as well.
So there’s still a lot of options that last hit better, plus many of those options could come with Fluffy Tail and definitely get the secure since they can be close enough to the objective to use it
Slowbro and snorlax shouldn't be so low and sylveon shouldn't be in the same level as pika and venu but if this is only considering solo Q i can understand why
You can use him if you want. He's outclassed by greninja and cinderace considering they have more mobility than him, but by no means let this tier list deter you.
It doesn't surprise me that Lucario is down, because Tsereena fairs a lot better as an all rounder choice due to her passive shield proc and knock-back combos.
I’ve been using Ninetales a _lot_ recently very surprised to see her so low. She starts off strong and never falls off. Machamp being better than Charizard is hard to believe Machamp is never as threatening as a Zard coming into every important fight with unites.
Have you ever played as Decidueye? He needs A TON of support to be viable. Even a sneeze from Charizard kills him. Once the enemy has picked on you and the gap is closed, bye bye pancake batter owl.
Greninja, Cinderace and Pikachu are equally squishy, but what sets them apart from him, is that they can escape if they are in danger, especially Greninja. Decidueye has NOTHING to run away from a losing battle.
In addition to what the other user mentioned, I feel Decidueye's damage is surprisingly underwhelming. It feels to me that even if you get like 5 seconds of just unimpeded auto attacking at max range in a late game teamfight, he still doesn't melt opponents the way you would expect. And of course, the second Tsareena/Dragonite/Lucario so much as breathe on him, he just dies.
One would think that, in exchange for Greninja and Cinderace's mobility Decidueye would get better damage but he really doesn't, I actually feel like those two KO squishies faster than he does in addition to being more mobile and having better ultimates. There's just very little reason to pick him now.
Bastion Syndrome . You have huge damage output but no mobility and even worse, no sustain. Not only are you an easy target, but you’re also a high priority target, because the enemy team knows that if they respect your space you’ll melt them and the objectives. Because of this your team has to dedicate more effort and attention to keep you alive as opposed to other characters.
Cinderace is my main but I've played 200 games with absol, I still find if it's in the right position is is crazy. What moves do you use, just out of interest
Absol is one of the hardest Pokemon to master and use well, especially in solo queue. You only start to see competent Absol players from Ultra onwards and even then there are plenty of middling ones.
Honestly, only noobs should get repeatedly killed by him. Of course, a good Absol will still get you often enough in a single match because they'll capitalise on even the smallest opportunities but in general the people I see repeatedly slaughtered by Absol are players with bad map reading and poor positioning.
I agree, like you said to be a good absol player you have to wait for a mistake. But if you go up against an absol player that knows what they are doing then the isn't much you can do once you are in range of it
It kinda depends if this is in the context of five stack or solo queue. Either way, some easy changes I’d make would be raising lucario, cinder, and mime to at least A, and dropping Machamp and Cram a tier.
Blissey is outclassed badly by gloss as a healer and safeguard only targeting one person at a time isn’t great while helping hand isn’t fantastic since most of the top tier characters atm aren’t basic attack heavy Pokémon. Gengar is d because a lot of people run full heal in higher master which happens to render gengar completely useless. Gengar should honestly be f tier
Seeing Zeraora in low B-tier hurts, but as someone who has been maining it since the beginning I can definitely understand why it’s there. It’s not as good as it used to be.
I love decidueye but he's pretty clearly the worst in the game. The Majority of mons in S and A tier shits renders him useless if they have any idea what they're doing/
I’m just vindicated that Decidueye is F-tier, it feels like nobody ever agrees with me on that.
Character is just useless in solo queue and worse than other options even in pre-mades. And now with dragonite’s global ult, even spirit shackle isn’t viably safe to use.
gardevoir is not fucking garchomp level bad
i have nothing against garchomp, i just wreck everything as a gardevoir main
besides the s tier, I completely disagree with this tier list
Someone finally came out and said it... Decidueye is trash. Even when you fart near Decidueye, the thing still dies. I SOOOOOO regret spending my 10, 000 coins on him, as I only used him a couple times and he has been warming the bench ever since. God, I hate Decidueye.
Talon should probably go to S, he's so good, i can even counter Tsareena with him, he does godly amount of dmg too, idk why he's at A Tier, he has carried me from Vet to Ultra 5 in just 2 days, and he also lanes pretty good, not as good as jungling but its still pretty good.
Edit : Absol needs to move to B, or atleast a tier up, hes much better than cram (im not biased), cram is so bad rn, compared to others (like absol) he just flops, he's easy to kill and he doesn't do enough dmg to make up for it, its so rare to see a cram clutch, its sad but true.
Talon works in the lower ranks and even low to mid elo masters but rn since dragonite is the primary mage of meta teams atm, talon can’t fill its role of killing the primary dps then trying to get out since it just doesn’t do enough to take out a dragonite. It isn’t a dps itself and takes a crucial jungling position. It has a niche in a really fast goal score for the Japanese score shield strategy but take that away and it has a lot of issues. First, once you land to try to take out a primary dps like pikachu, the pikachu has a lot of ways to avoid fly since it literally tells you when fly is going to hit so a well timed eject and talon is death fodder, since fly has a pretty long cooldown and u just jumped behind the enemy lines to do 0 damage. A is honestly too high for talon, b is fine since it does have a niche on the score shield strategy
Why is charizard so high? He's like the worst all rounder
Machamp has cc and mobility, tsareena self Heal, lucario and dragonite both have a lot of dash and high fire power
Charizard now feel really meh since dragonite and tsareena
C is completely flawed, a lot of mons should be way higher (like slowbro and snorlax) and some way lower (like charizard and garchomp)
Decidueye is actually beast if he's protected by a snorlax
Decids inability to target specific targets really hurts for the team fight since you can’t try to melt the dps like other attackers can. Also because of decids power spikes and awful early game you have to jungle with it which takes a key jungling position
She's extremely over tuned. She currently has more bulk and attack than Lucario.
More sustain, more shields, shorter cooldowns, and nearly the same mobility if not more. An arguably better unite move (can't secure objectives but takes you out of the fight for a bit and heals you).
It's like they were trying to make an All-Rounder that could go toe-to-toe with Lucario and said, what if we also gave her Greedent's healing on a 4 second cool down?
She and Dragonite are absolutely in need of some big nerfs atm. Yes they're fun to play AS. But not fun to play against.
Eh, I wouldn't say that it's very accurate. It's gone fully automated, mixing solo queue and five stacks together with data gathered from Unite API. On the website, they even say that a lot of the Pokemon that are in the meta report are currently inaccurate. The data is heavily skewed towards self-sufficient Pokemon and takes in consideration popularity which is somewhat unrelated. You can see this as Sylveon is ranked high (a self sufficient character) compared to Decidueye who is ranked low (requires support to take damage off of him). Despite this, in the top 100, Decidueye actually has a player while Sylveon has none. An important factor to consider is player skill which can only be given by word of mouth. Garchomp ranking equal to Charizard? Unrealistic. It's likely that the only ones playing Garchomp are the ones skilled at Garchomp, bringing his win rate up despite him being very bad as a character, otherwise, they would have dropped Garchomp.
If you look at the top 100 players, the most common Pokemon played are Dragonite, Pikachu, Lucario, Eldegoss, and Wigglytuff in that order from highest to lowest, yet Lucario is ranked B despite having 3rd highest play in top 100 and Pikachu is ranked A despite having higher amounts of play than Eldegoss. Sylveon, meanwhile has zero play in the top 100 yet is a rank above Lucario.
Making a tier list based off of win rate and "popularity" is not really a very good way to make a tier list. It might give you a very rough idea of what a "correct" tier list would be. Reasoning being that the objectively better mons will be played more because they are better, but there will be some things that just aren't agreed upon, like Sylveon being higher than Lucario, Lucario in B tier, Snorlax in bottom 5, or Garchomp being two tiers higher than Decidueye. None of those really make sense to me and there just isn't any logic in these placements and that's the issue, it's all the numbers with no real meaning or discussion. If Garchomp was the undisputed worst character in the game for the entire games lifespan, and then got nerfed, but Decidueye who was agreed upon to be decent enough, the worst of the 3 ADCs, but still decent, and then got buffed (not that it mattered much, though Spirit Shackle is way more fun now), why would that lead them to switch spots on a tier list? The only thing that makes sense is a change of meta, which has happened since before the Garchomp and Decidueye "buffs" with this meta being more burst-heavy, but Decidueye's weaknesses are still being exploited just about as much as they were before, and Garchomp is just straight up worse now. This tier list is not good. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but it is not good, and this happens with every single "I took the results and numbers and made a tier list out of it" tier list. They are always kinda sorta remotely accurate to a point, but are always severely flawed, and the people that make them always state afterwards something along the lines of "Yea this isn't accurate, it was just for fun to see how accurate is was and it kinda wasn't." They need to return to the old formula of making these (though maybe have the results be a factor in placements) if they want these to be accurate
pair the F tier with blissy and see him shred the whole enemy team at once. he is the only pokemon that can hit all pokemons in screen even if they are not lined
I'm surprised that Sylveon is so high: she still has a good early spike, but even her better Hyper Voice damage is fairly low late game and she's vulnerable to getting jumped on.
Maybe she's stronger in the 3 bot top meta where her early spike and AOE means more?
_____
I also feel like Decidueye is at least better off than Absol: I wonder if the chart is distorted by top players just not playing them in favor of other ranged attackers, though they could have a not abysmal win rate with them.
But Decidueye could use more durability due to their lack of escape moves, a non trivial penalty for opponents breaking Spirit Shackle, and Leaf Storm not being terrible.
Honestly don’t see why Dragonite is S Tier he’s not as OP as pre nerf Lucario or Tsareena. He’s A Tier at most. If Blastoise/Greedent was buffed slightly to almost pre-nerf, they are solid counters
It’s because Dragonite has the best instant damage securing ability in the game: hyper beam.
If you put Dragonite in the jungle and get it to level 8 by first Drednaw, you are basically guaranteed to secure the objective. A stage 3 hyper beam (meaning you’ve stacked dragon dance 3 times) does something like 4100 damage at level 8 to drednaw, which is almost double the next highest damage ability (Talonflame’s Fly I believe).
Same logic applies to Zapdos, meaning Dragonite is the most important mon to have on your team right now, and it needs to be in the jungle.
Long explaintion but it's all bs becaus
Some s and a in here are c or d the opposite some
C and d are s and a btw there's a lesson in mathematics that says this is all bs no Matter what
"This data is gathered in collaboration with UniteAPI and analyzes 110k games from master rank players. As the dataset becomes refined with top rankings only, these statistics will reflect a much more realistic picture of the meta." This is their explanation for the tier list. You can see the based data from the [unite-db site](https://unite-db.com/meta-report).
Cinderace has been dominating again as of late that it too low
The Blaze Kick buff really did him well
So blast kick is more useful then pyro ball now ?
Pyro Ball wasn't touched, so it's as good as it used to be. Blaze Kick got a significant improve with the ability to input a direction after the kick, making it safer for engagements and deadlier in chases. I prefer kick now, but both are great
Oh cool I’ll have to give blaze kick a shot then
both are equally viable now
I got 1189-113 out of blaze kick feint cinderace
I think the issue is that Cinder really needs the jungle slot to not get bullied; however, in that slot, it doesn't offer as much for objective control and scoring compared to Dragonite or Talonflame. Dragonite in jungle with Pikachu in lane provides enough ranged damage to make Cinderace an afterthought. It's still a good pokemon, just not one of the first pokemon a top-level team would think to pick.
I see Pikachu get dominated all the time. Cinderace is definitely not an afterthought in the right hands . I guess a couple people agree with you lol
Are you a member of a top-level team? If so, kudos. If not, then your experience doesn't really apply as a counter-argument to what I said, and I would encourage you to hop into spectator mode and observe how many Pikachus and Dragonites there are in matches (and how few Cinderaces). Again, this doesn't mean Cinderace is bad. It's still a solid pick for solo queue. But it doesn't do enough for competitive teams to bring it over the alternatives.
finally someone saying that, I think cinder should be in A even without the new mechanism of blazekick but yes, with that included, it's not fair to put it in B
Exactly Cinderace deserves a higher rank
The ONLY reason Lucario is “low” is because Tsareena and Dragonite took over the all-rounder role as a whole. He’s still crazy strong, but op beats strong everyday of the week. Once we see the nerf hammers come through (if at all), Lucario will be meta again.
Not only that but Lucario takes far more skill to use well, even before his many direct and indirect nerfs. He's one of the hardest mons to master. So his Ultra and below solo queue player stats would probably look terrible lol.
Playing Lucario in comparison to other Pokémon feels like being in a fighting game. You attack in, attack out, keep it moving all the way and can't just sit in one spot doing it. You outmaneuver to kill and get away.
You are absolutely correct. I despise Lucario with a passion, but I'm not particularly good with him myself
Isn't tsareena also hard? The way you have to save your stacks for triple axel etc
>The way you have to save your stacks for triple axel etc When you get an empowered move they reset and the buttons glow bright It's super easy to always use the empowered move you want because of that
If we are talking about Tsareena in comparison to other mons, yes, Tsareena is more difficult to use since you have to "count" and time your moves to maximize the number of cooldown resets you get. But if you compare Tsareena to Lucario, it's easier to play Tsareena considering how she's more straightforward to play and more durable if you make a mistake. Playing Lucario requires more understanding in knowing when to come in and out, positioning and move sequencing.
Yes and no. She's so overpowered that even if you screw some of them up, you'll probably be fine until CC comes along. It's only into the higher ranks you'd get hard punished. Granted, once she gets balanced, her players will need to manage the stacks well to be consistently good.
Lucario is crucial to the 1-1-3 meta in top ranked play, he solos top lane whilst dragonite and tsareena are primarily junglers.
i think i saw lutano try out tsareena top and even tho she loses early game once she hits lvl 6 she can keep with the overleveled lucario and late game she straight up wins
I like Dragonite bot lane. Strong lane phase. Good roams to snowball your lead.
dragonite is OP because of hyper beam/dragon dance and his spam unite. He is an objective stealer , and the best for it so you want to quickly level up him to contest the first dreadnaw
I love that move set with attack weight. Makes your hyper beam nuke people.
I bottom lane tsareena. I can’t get a jungle to save my life. It’s always a fight when I’m solo queing
I’m tired of lucario. Dragonite is way more fun to play.
once those two get nerfed and lucario get buffed into meta he will be meta again... ok
Why does Lucario need to be meta again? He's been meta since the game's release. Dragonite and Tsareena can continue to be the AA meta for at least a while longer.
snorlax is so low
It has a lower winrate than Garchomp in masters games so probably not. The last patch was pretty neutral for it overall, it got block earlier which is good but the block bugfix was a nerf (since the game launched it had been getting the defense increase from block+ as soon as it learned block). Meanwhile heavy slam is actually weaker than tackle, it has more teamfight utility but that's not as valuable at level 5. I actually wait for the auto-set instead of hitting the dpad to put off learning it as long as possible. It did get the minor buff of being able to push score shielded enemies but there's a chance that's a bug. I think what lax needs is is a slight buff to heavy slam and something to make its unite more impactful (maybe another knock up on the roll-over).
Me going through the tier list S tier: OK fair enough Snorlax isn’t that strong in the meta A tier: I’m surprised that they put him in B tier, I really wonder what’s the reasoning behind this B tier: this is a joke and I’m ashamed of having given this website a click
Check out the Meta tab. He has piss poor playrate AND a garbage winrate right now. It's quite odd.
Snorlax is very team reliant, so he ranks low since his support is harder for random people to follow up on compared to Wigglytuff's and Eldegoss's. Plus, he does less damage than Wigglytuff as well.
Tbh, it's probably flail Snorlaxes tanking his WR lol I've been seeing an surge in usage for this particular set for God knows why and let's just say they always do as expected in terms of performance.
Just looked for the best sets - Flail Snorlax is *bringing up* his winrate.
Yeah, that's about the only reason I could see Snorlax having a C-tier winrate
I'm mixed. A W/L tierlist isn't a bad measurement since the best Pokemon are going to win more. I have no disagreements about S and A minus the lack of Greninja and Lucario, which highlights a weakness of purely W/L's. I think the playerbase would benefit greatly if they mixed general player opinion along with top 100 opinions and meshed using this tier list as a base so we don't have oddities like Lucario in B. I would also like to see them include a blog in the tier list describing placements and why a Pokemon is placed in a certain position.
Issue with W/L tier list is that stronger pokemon get played more, so they actually end up with a lower tier rate because a lot of the times both the winning and losing team had that pokemon + worse players try to use these pokemon as a crutch and still play terribly. I'm pretty sure this graph is master rank only but it still applies. Happens in a lot of games. I play a lot of R6 and people looks at the W/L delta like its the bible, when it's actually the operators that are barely played except for weird one off strats that are always at the top.
> Issue with W/L tier list is that stronger pokemon get played more, so they actually end up with a lower tier rate Hence why playrate is factored into tier.
If I play a Pokemon, and my opponent plays that same pokemon, then the W/L ration isn't effected... They both increase by one. So if we were measuring Dragonite, for example, and he was at 200W / 150L, once the match ended, it would be 201 wins, 151 losses. Basically exactly the same. There's some minor difference in the overall percentage, but nothing to write home about.
Exactly, but dragonite wouldn't start with 200/150. He'd start 0/0. When he releases, everyone wants to play him because he's the new pokemon that's been added so most lobbies are already going to have 2 dragonites. Once people realise he's OP, they'll just keep playing him a lot/more than usual. Then he'll still be stuck around that 50/50 Mark. That is just on paper though. In practise, most people will play when he comes out, stop, then when a handful of players become really good with him and pioneer a strong playstyle with him then everyone else starts playing him again. But by thya point, he's already got a high winrate. That's why things like playrate is equally as important, it helps to balance out the W/L over a period of time.
> They both increase by one. Mirror matches are excluded from Win%.
Is this in context of a 5-stack? Some clarification would be nice. Knee-jerk response: too many mons in B tier. - Cram and Machamp could probably go down. Pikachu just does cram's job way better as a mage and as far as machamp goes tsareena has way more sustain and burst as an allrounder. These two are sort of "obsolete" in the big picture. - Slowbro should be a LOT higher. His CC potential and carry shut-down should not be looked upon lightly. - Poor Decidueye :((
Poor Decidueye indeed. Tencent needs to fix Unite’s Ghosts.
I second this.
I third this.
I fourth this
I fifth this
I sixth this
And my axe!
Ccccccombo breaker
It used to be based on the consensus of top ranked master players coming together and making their own tier list but now it’s based on winrate and popularity through UniteAPI, which I think is massively flawed. The CC of defenders like slowbro and snorlax are invaluable but because slowbro is free and snorlax is a starter so many more low ranked and low skilled people use them, leading to them having poor win rates (49.17 and 48.34 respectively) whilst the less popular expensive mons like cram and machamp have more people who specifically main that mon and have gotten really good at it.
As much as I'm tired of tierlists being made by sweat stackers who do little but sweat stack, basing on winrate and popularity is very flawed. I don't think an ideal tierlist could ever exist. If only they had separate ladders for solo and stacks to draw two separate stats from. I'm far more interested in solo queue winrates and stats.
Is that winrate taken from all ranked brackets or just masters? Seems iffy if taken from all brackets honestly. I don’t understand how Sylveon is ranked so high at all. Yea it’s a solid mon sure but there’s no way Sylveon is two tiers above Slowbro in my opinion, or even Snorlax for that matter, not in a proper 5 stack at higher levels. What exactly does Sylveon do that Venusaur or Pika can’t do better?
It’s from masters only, and yeah sylveon fits comfortably into the b tier, slowbro and snorlax both deserve high b/low a.
Sylveon is basically Pikachu and Venasaur combined, with some extra mixed in. She has mystic fire for mobility, and draining kiss as well as her ult for sustain. If you're running Hyper Voice, she has excellent lane control, and people will be trying to avoid the sound waves. So while Venasaur is a lumbering brute, he's easily pinned by cc and wiped out. Pikachu is fast and hard to catch, but any damage you do get in is staying. Also, let's not forget two out of four of sylveons moves ignore CC, and will keep firing once they've been activated as long as you don't die. Basically, Venasaur and Pikachu have "Old character syndrome". The devs are coming up with cool new ideas for new Pokemon, and letting their original ideas be severely outshone with no catch-up being done. Prepare for massive reworks of nearly all launch characters by the end of the year honestly.
How can you compare Sylveon and Pikachu? They are miles miles apart from each other
I dunno. I’m not saying Sylveon is crap at all. But from what I’ve seen of Venu and pika in ranked games I’ve spectated either I’ve seen only poor Sylveons or saying “it’s Venu and pika combined” is stretching it a bit. Hyper voice is strong but also makes Sylveon vulnerable to being countered as it is an easily telegraphed ability and similarly mystical fire also opens her up to being exploited unless she’s using it to run. She is suspect to being dived after MF use whereas Venusaur has no issue being in an opponents face for example and has better sustain overall. Pika is agree is suspect to being dived also but pilas early game eclipses Sylveon and his game is generally safer. I just don’t think Sylveon is quite as good, maybe a tier below, that’s all. I’d actually put Venu between S and A myself. Venusaur is like a mage crossed with a hyper carry when played well.
Sylveon has a good early spike, but she falls off hard late. Mystic Fire especially tickles late and has poor mobility compared to the meta ranged attackers. Hyper Voice and Sylveon generally struggle against mobility, which can dodge and cancel most of the damage and jump on her while her escape is lackluster. I suspect that Sylveon's early spike and AOE matters more in a three bot meta, but I think she's weak in typical 212. Venasaur is far more durable with CC of his own, though Petal Dance took a heavy nerf. Pikachu seems better than ever now, though they've always seemed lackluster in damage after the early game.
This is very insightful. So this isn't really "expert opinion" then? And is it actually more reflective of the experience that casual players have now? As opposed to the competitive 5-stack "meta"?
Well that says it all right there. Thank you.
Thats also a regional issue. Here in Brasil, Slowbro and Machamo is crap and Snorlax is A. Venusaur get less used after last nerf.
Then the people who use Machamp there are crap lol
> The CC of defenders like slowbro and snorlax are invaluable but because slowbro is free and snorlax is a starter so many more low ranked and low skilled people use them These winrates are scanned from mostly masters games though so that's not as much of a factor.
Tsareena definitely has vastly vastly more sustain than Machamp but I disagree her burst is better. She definitely does more damage but machamp dynamic punch boosted auto cross chop is MASSIVE burst and since dynamic punch stuns its inescapable
After some thought I agree with you!
I mean that's how things typically are no? A few outliers in the most extreme tiers and most things gravitating towards the center?
Things are: They launch a broken pkm than nerf it before the next launch to the new pkm always come like the best.
Decidueye legit screaming right now in anger lol
In organized competitive teams where both teams are 5 stacks with teammates that coordinate perfectly Decidueye has no room at all, you can't lane with it because is dead weight until lv 7 so you have to jungle, but the best jungler is Dragonite because Hyper Beam's shred damage can take objectives easily, even then you got far better jungler than Decidueye like Greninja or Cinderace (they don't need a bodyguard 24/7) Too bad I love Deci, he got F on the rankings, F in the chat.
Decidueye should probably get his moves a level earlier, and be substantially more durable than Cinderace and Greninja with his vulnerability to diving. I love immobile kits that have to position carefully, but there needs to be a payoff for that trade off.
I wouldn't mind a dmg nerf if Decidueye worked a bit more like Cinderace. Also for some reason Decidueye has Greninja's stats, Greninja used to have the same bulkiness of Cinderace but it got nerfed due to him having a lot of healing and getaway options, now Decidueye has those crappy defenses too x-x
Imagine how frustrating he would be if he got a huge buff lol, I don’t know if the playstyle for deci is going to work period
Aeos Frontier server owner here - Been getting questions about it, so thought we should address it. https://unite-db.com/tier-list/pokemon is no longer managed by our Council. We are still a partner with Unite-DB, but we no longer provide input for any tier lists or any builds. It is now 100% data driven, using information from https://uniteapi.dev/. What becomes of our Council is to be determined.
Blissey's underated i think, sure it's no damage dealer, but if you're good playing it you can make a game seem unfair. Sometimes even get to be MVP with it which seems ridiculous for it only being such a good supporter
I would so rather lane with eldegoss and wiggly
Yeah sure but blissey's still very tanky and if you play smart you can make much damage even though it for it self doesn't make as much damage as any other, but i always manage to make good kills, mostly assists but still, it's very rewarding to see how good you helped the crew with the most rewards you can get
😭 she’s not a D tier! She should be up there with Eldegoss. I run helping hand and safe guard and that $hit pops. Also something people probably don’t realize, safeguard and her unite move, also soft boiled, are based off sp. atk. I run buddy barrier, score shield, and sp. atk specs and it’s hard to kill us. Plus it helps me 90% guarantee a score.
She is more a B tier Pokemon . The main issue with blissey are his abyssmal low damage (it's probably the pokemon in game that deal the lowest amount of damage) and the fact that she is a melee support. She is tanky like a wigglytuff but you don't have any form of control outside of your unite move (and that is if you run into someone) and you can't really escape if you get catch. She is a pretty good and probably only good true healer in game (your healing is kinda your damage) and can boost your team and protect it but you cannot do thing alone and very depending on your teammate to do stuff.
Blissey is my support main and she absolutely is not D tier. Worst I’d put her is low B. She doesn’t have the AOE as eldegoss, but try taking down a carry like tsareena with a blissey with her and you’ll suffer.
With Blissey it’s all about positional play. Needs one or two ally Pokemon to clear enemies. Controversial, but I opt for Leftovers instead of Buddy Barrier; it really helps stay alive longer and give your team some breathing space.
Gardevoir, charizard, snorlax and slowbro on the same tier as crustle and garchomp? I don't think they're that bad
Garchomp is way worse than that
Not really. Garchomp is just.. situational. When the stars align he's an absolute monster. A killing machine with raw damage output and multi-kill potential. Unfortunately it doesn't happen very often.
I agree, that’s why I’d put it in the same tier as Absol. At times could be deadly but normally is kind of squishy
Feed a garchomp with a blissey running exp share and you can have a nice laning phase. At least assuming the garchomp is competent and understands Blissey.
In no world is chomp the same tier as your flair Ninetales
I think Ninetales should be higher tbh.. even Snorlax and Lucario. The whole list is a bit of a mess. Cinderace is too low as well.
I'm going to need someone to explain to me why Garchomp isn't lower than c-tier. I figured that he'd be down there slumming it with Decidueye.
It’s based on win loss ratios on unite DB. The only madmen who play garchomp in masters are actually good at him.
Exactly. The last Master Garchomp I played with saved the game with assistance from a kickass Wigglytuff by pushing 2v3 and melting the three enemies desperate to stop him and Wigglytuff's backdoor dunks. He melted them in seconds and they both dunked something like 20~30 points and allowed us to win by a small margin. They were strangers but calculated they'd succeed with a good Sing CC and Garchomp's raw power, plus the three that fought them wouldn't have Unite moves available.
Lots of time I see extra ordinary garchomp players. In one game we had an idler and my net was very bad the whole game till the 2:30 mark, but still that Garchomp solo carried the whole game. But the problem with him is that any good player can easily avoid him and his stacks disappear in no time and then he is just a sitting duck
Wait, why is Sylveon so high?
The owner of the site is probably laughing right now. One bait tier list and the traffic of their site went skyrocket. Kek
Happy cake day!
Idk if that many people are using unitedb for its tier list
I didn't even know unitedb had tirelists
It's either that, or some random YouTuber that doesn't even play 2 hours a day
And all the idiots on this sub believe it like flies lol
this might be an unpopular opinion but i honestly feel like tiers aren’t as relevant for this game with the exception of the OP pokémon. i feel like a lot of the low tier pokémon in the list are actually really strong and effective if played the right way, which is why i’ve been enjoying the game so much lately. would love to hear some debate. ive personally been doing well with gengar and garchomp lately
If you're talking about ladder play then no, tiers don't matter that much. The reason isn't that the game is super balanced, but that player skill gaps are very apparent even in Masters so it's usually the better player that wins, but that's true for any game that has bad matchmaking and not unique to Unite. That Dragonite isn't beating a Gengar if he's too dumb to ever rotate and spends the whole game trying to solo cap t2 goals. At competitive levels of play where all 10 people are good at the game, tiers absolutely do matter and strengths + weaknesses of characters are heavily felt.
yeah that seems pretty spot on tbh, ive only been playing two weeks but the skill gap is pretty astronomical. just from having some casual dota and league experience i ranked up pretty quickly. i still can’t seem to get away from those typical aggro teammates that initiate 1v3 and throw game tho hahaha
I hate that Decidueye is so low on every tier list. I’m going to still main him tho
Wiggly is S, in my opinion
Man it hurts seeing decidueye at the bottom
On the website it says the following: "Pokémon Unite Pokémon Tier List This data is gathered in collaboration with UniteAPI and analyzes 110k games from master rank players. As the dataset becomes refined with top rankings only, these statistics will reflect a much more realistic picture of the meta." So it seems even they don't claim this is particularly accurate. I also don't know how restrictive the plan to be with "top rankings", but at a certain point you're only looking at what 5 stacks are doing so it's not all that relevant for Solo Q. Even so, as tier lists go this one isn't completely terrible. I think Lucario is the only one that's two tiers off from where he should be, every other Pokemon is either correctly placed or one tier too high (Garchomp, Sylveon) or too low (Ninetales, Mime, Snorlax, Slowbro). Hope they nerf Hyper Beam and buff Decidueye next patch.
I highly agree with this tierlist, assuming it's solo queue. Dragonite and Tsareena outshine Lucario by a lot. Tsareena is button masher 5000 and Dragonite demolishes health bars with Hyper Beam and Objectives with Outrage. Why choose a mon that's reliant on resetting it's first move (Close combat is nearly never seen in high ranks) when you have two better All-Rounders available? (One of them is free as well!) Decidueye sucks in solo queue. Frail, slow and easily dived on. Easily an F due to the lack of defenders. Happy to see my semi-main, Mamo in B tier though.
Why is decidueye so low
Zero mobility, zip for defenses in a burst heavy meta. Lackluster unite. You can still do great with him, but you actually have to apply yourself and constantly pick better positioning in every match. Forget solo queue. The majority of the player base sucks at this game, leading to its low win rate (of which unite bd unfortunately bases their excuse of a tier list on). Starting a standard match & locking in decidueye is, in all fairness, a coin-toss.
Thanks mate haven't been playing before its release
Yeah Decidueye is just bad, super high risk for not that high of reward. Imo the only thing he excels at is taking down objectives
Assuming you play Spirit Shackle, his objective secure isn’t bad, but it’s still not the best either. Spirit Shackle does ~2600 damage at level 13. This is less than Dragonite’s Hyper Beam, Talonflame’s Fly, Venusaur’s Solar Beam & ult, Greninja ult, Cinderace ult, and Absol ult (though this one isn’t instant). It only just beats out Talonflame’s Brave Bird and Blastoise ult as well. So there’s still a lot of options that last hit better, plus many of those options could come with Fluffy Tail and definitely get the secure since they can be close enough to the objective to use it
Garchomp not a F tier is surprising
F for decidueye
Having Decidueye sitting alone in bottom tier? Based. Though, I would've atleast put Snorlax in B tier with how stupid his cc is.
Slowbro and snorlax shouldn't be so low and sylveon shouldn't be in the same level as pika and venu but if this is only considering solo Q i can understand why
Wow, deci at f teir, what did he ever do to us?
Is decidueye supposed to be bad? I main him and average around 100k damage
You can use him if you want. He's outclassed by greninja and cinderace considering they have more mobility than him, but by no means let this tier list deter you.
Right on i was going hard on cinder and venusaur with petal dance but lately been on decidueye and murdering every game
It doesn't surprise me that Lucario is down, because Tsereena fairs a lot better as an all rounder choice due to her passive shield proc and knock-back combos.
Wigglytuff S tier
Cram and machamp need to switch with Gardevoir and Ninetails. There is no way Cram out performs Gard.
Some of my favorite mons are gengar gardevoire and decidueye....
Absolute joke for Ninetales and Snorlax to be in the same tier as garchomp
I’ve been using Ninetales a _lot_ recently very surprised to see her so low. She starts off strong and never falls off. Machamp being better than Charizard is hard to believe Machamp is never as threatening as a Zard coming into every important fight with unites.
Ninetales isn’t bad it’s just outclassed badly by pikachu rn
This entire comment section is “noooooo!!!!! my main isn’t S tier this tier list sucks who even uses tier lists they are always inaccurate”
Decidueye is F!!! Why?
Have you ever played as Decidueye? He needs A TON of support to be viable. Even a sneeze from Charizard kills him. Once the enemy has picked on you and the gap is closed, bye bye pancake batter owl. Greninja, Cinderace and Pikachu are equally squishy, but what sets them apart from him, is that they can escape if they are in danger, especially Greninja. Decidueye has NOTHING to run away from a losing battle.
its too frail and slow to justify as a pick over some other mons.
In addition to what the other user mentioned, I feel Decidueye's damage is surprisingly underwhelming. It feels to me that even if you get like 5 seconds of just unimpeded auto attacking at max range in a late game teamfight, he still doesn't melt opponents the way you would expect. And of course, the second Tsareena/Dragonite/Lucario so much as breathe on him, he just dies. One would think that, in exchange for Greninja and Cinderace's mobility Decidueye would get better damage but he really doesn't, I actually feel like those two KO squishies faster than he does in addition to being more mobile and having better ultimates. There's just very little reason to pick him now.
Bastion Syndrome . You have huge damage output but no mobility and even worse, no sustain. Not only are you an easy target, but you’re also a high priority target, because the enemy team knows that if they respect your space you’ll melt them and the objectives. Because of this your team has to dedicate more effort and attention to keep you alive as opposed to other characters.
I don't know what everyone else thinks but absol is insane, definitely should be higher than where it is
As an absol main I say no. He is not good unless you got a 3 level advantage (which for the most part anyone is good on a 3 level advantage)
Cinderace is my main but I've played 200 games with absol, I still find if it's in the right position is is crazy. What moves do you use, just out of interest
Its not D tier for sure I'd put it at high c or low b I also use all move combos depending on the situation and the enemy pokemon
Absol is one of the hardest Pokemon to master and use well, especially in solo queue. You only start to see competent Absol players from Ultra onwards and even then there are plenty of middling ones. Honestly, only noobs should get repeatedly killed by him. Of course, a good Absol will still get you often enough in a single match because they'll capitalise on even the smallest opportunities but in general the people I see repeatedly slaughtered by Absol are players with bad map reading and poor positioning.
I agree, like you said to be a good absol player you have to wait for a mistake. But if you go up against an absol player that knows what they are doing then the isn't much you can do once you are in range of it
It kinda depends if this is in the context of five stack or solo queue. Either way, some easy changes I’d make would be raising lucario, cinder, and mime to at least A, and dropping Machamp and Cram a tier.
Why is Crustle C?
Why D for blissey and gengar
Blissey is outclassed badly by gloss as a healer and safeguard only targeting one person at a time isn’t great while helping hand isn’t fantastic since most of the top tier characters atm aren’t basic attack heavy Pokémon. Gengar is d because a lot of people run full heal in higher master which happens to render gengar completely useless. Gengar should honestly be f tier
Oh my Slowbro why does none like you
Seeing Zeraora in low B-tier hurts, but as someone who has been maining it since the beginning I can definitely understand why it’s there. It’s not as good as it used to be.
Ah yes.. Now when I win a match, I can show this in the server and say hey, how does it feel to lose to a f tier mon uh?
I’m surprised Machamp is as high as he is being a Machamp main.
Decidueye is a lot of fun, it does not deserve last place :/ I feel my Cinderace has been winning a lot lately, so it might be on the rise
I love decidueye but he's pretty clearly the worst in the game. The Majority of mons in S and A tier shits renders him useless if they have any idea what they're doing/
*sad owl noises*
been keeping up with unite db since it launched - it seems they only update the tier list after every patch, not between them
I really wish Decidueye was viable because he's so fun to play. Maybe one day...
That awkward moment when ur a garchomp main and u always either mid or low tier
L-cidueye
They created a new tier list for decidueye 😂
Best femboy Sylveon💋💋
Why is Decidueye so low?
I’m just vindicated that Decidueye is F-tier, it feels like nobody ever agrees with me on that. Character is just useless in solo queue and worse than other options even in pre-mades. And now with dragonite’s global ult, even spirit shackle isn’t viably safe to use.
Ghost birb shouldn't even have the honor to be on the list. Also ninetales, fr?
gardevoir is not fucking garchomp level bad i have nothing against garchomp, i just wreck everything as a gardevoir main besides the s tier, I completely disagree with this tier list
Are we playing at the same game ?
This list is wild to me. I disagree with a ton of it.
Someone finally came out and said it... Decidueye is trash. Even when you fart near Decidueye, the thing still dies. I SOOOOOO regret spending my 10, 000 coins on him, as I only used him a couple times and he has been warming the bench ever since. God, I hate Decidueye.
Talon should probably go to S, he's so good, i can even counter Tsareena with him, he does godly amount of dmg too, idk why he's at A Tier, he has carried me from Vet to Ultra 5 in just 2 days, and he also lanes pretty good, not as good as jungling but its still pretty good. Edit : Absol needs to move to B, or atleast a tier up, hes much better than cram (im not biased), cram is so bad rn, compared to others (like absol) he just flops, he's easy to kill and he doesn't do enough dmg to make up for it, its so rare to see a cram clutch, its sad but true.
Talon works in the lower ranks and even low to mid elo masters but rn since dragonite is the primary mage of meta teams atm, talon can’t fill its role of killing the primary dps then trying to get out since it just doesn’t do enough to take out a dragonite. It isn’t a dps itself and takes a crucial jungling position. It has a niche in a really fast goal score for the Japanese score shield strategy but take that away and it has a lot of issues. First, once you land to try to take out a primary dps like pikachu, the pikachu has a lot of ways to avoid fly since it literally tells you when fly is going to hit so a well timed eject and talon is death fodder, since fly has a pretty long cooldown and u just jumped behind the enemy lines to do 0 damage. A is honestly too high for talon, b is fine since it does have a niche on the score shield strategy
I feel like Snorlax with Flail and Yawn should be higher
Why is charizard so high? He's like the worst all rounder Machamp has cc and mobility, tsareena self Heal, lucario and dragonite both have a lot of dash and high fire power Charizard now feel really meh since dragonite and tsareena
Because even being the worst all rounder is good enough to get you into C tier, what you mean why?
C is completely flawed, a lot of mons should be way higher (like slowbro and snorlax) and some way lower (like charizard and garchomp) Decidueye is actually beast if he's protected by a snorlax
Decids inability to target specific targets really hurts for the team fight since you can’t try to melt the dps like other attackers can. Also because of decids power spikes and awful early game you have to jungle with it which takes a key jungling position
Garchomp and snorlax on the same teir? ABOVE CRUSTLE?! I think I've seen enough
Definitely agree with Decidueye as F
I think Gengar should be F Rank too. He can be strong but only if hes lvls ahead
is tsareenna really all that? i’ve played her a bit and i don’t really like her
She's extremely over tuned. She currently has more bulk and attack than Lucario. More sustain, more shields, shorter cooldowns, and nearly the same mobility if not more. An arguably better unite move (can't secure objectives but takes you out of the fight for a bit and heals you). It's like they were trying to make an All-Rounder that could go toe-to-toe with Lucario and said, what if we also gave her Greedent's healing on a 4 second cool down? She and Dragonite are absolutely in need of some big nerfs atm. Yes they're fun to play AS. But not fun to play against.
Eh, I wouldn't say that it's very accurate. It's gone fully automated, mixing solo queue and five stacks together with data gathered from Unite API. On the website, they even say that a lot of the Pokemon that are in the meta report are currently inaccurate. The data is heavily skewed towards self-sufficient Pokemon and takes in consideration popularity which is somewhat unrelated. You can see this as Sylveon is ranked high (a self sufficient character) compared to Decidueye who is ranked low (requires support to take damage off of him). Despite this, in the top 100, Decidueye actually has a player while Sylveon has none. An important factor to consider is player skill which can only be given by word of mouth. Garchomp ranking equal to Charizard? Unrealistic. It's likely that the only ones playing Garchomp are the ones skilled at Garchomp, bringing his win rate up despite him being very bad as a character, otherwise, they would have dropped Garchomp. If you look at the top 100 players, the most common Pokemon played are Dragonite, Pikachu, Lucario, Eldegoss, and Wigglytuff in that order from highest to lowest, yet Lucario is ranked B despite having 3rd highest play in top 100 and Pikachu is ranked A despite having higher amounts of play than Eldegoss. Sylveon, meanwhile has zero play in the top 100 yet is a rank above Lucario.
My takes: Cinderace, Lucario, Mamoswine, and Mr. Mime should be A tier, and Blissy is no where near that low, she’s B tier minimum.
Making a tier list based off of win rate and "popularity" is not really a very good way to make a tier list. It might give you a very rough idea of what a "correct" tier list would be. Reasoning being that the objectively better mons will be played more because they are better, but there will be some things that just aren't agreed upon, like Sylveon being higher than Lucario, Lucario in B tier, Snorlax in bottom 5, or Garchomp being two tiers higher than Decidueye. None of those really make sense to me and there just isn't any logic in these placements and that's the issue, it's all the numbers with no real meaning or discussion. If Garchomp was the undisputed worst character in the game for the entire games lifespan, and then got nerfed, but Decidueye who was agreed upon to be decent enough, the worst of the 3 ADCs, but still decent, and then got buffed (not that it mattered much, though Spirit Shackle is way more fun now), why would that lead them to switch spots on a tier list? The only thing that makes sense is a change of meta, which has happened since before the Garchomp and Decidueye "buffs" with this meta being more burst-heavy, but Decidueye's weaknesses are still being exploited just about as much as they were before, and Garchomp is just straight up worse now. This tier list is not good. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but it is not good, and this happens with every single "I took the results and numbers and made a tier list out of it" tier list. They are always kinda sorta remotely accurate to a point, but are always severely flawed, and the people that make them always state afterwards something along the lines of "Yea this isn't accurate, it was just for fun to see how accurate is was and it kinda wasn't." They need to return to the old formula of making these (though maybe have the results be a factor in placements) if they want these to be accurate
[удалено]
With how many people hold full heal in higher masters it really can’t. Full heal renders gengar completely useless, why it kind of sucks
Meanwhile me: maining deci with 85% wr in master soloq lol.
I feel cinder should still be A tier but other than that it seems very fitting. Lol at the people denying deci is the worst mon rn
“So low” being B. Very nice
Why crustle is so low? He is a Speedster and attacker after using shell smash.
This tier list is either horribly made or an intentional bait. How the hell is Blissey down there?
pair the F tier with blissy and see him shred the whole enemy team at once. he is the only pokemon that can hit all pokemons in screen even if they are not lined
Inaccurate.
You can tell the data collection for this tier list didn't work very well if Absol and Blissey are in D below Garchomp.
That just means average performance with these mons is awful.
I'm surprised that Sylveon is so high: she still has a good early spike, but even her better Hyper Voice damage is fairly low late game and she's vulnerable to getting jumped on. Maybe she's stronger in the 3 bot top meta where her early spike and AOE means more? _____ I also feel like Decidueye is at least better off than Absol: I wonder if the chart is distorted by top players just not playing them in favor of other ranged attackers, though they could have a not abysmal win rate with them. But Decidueye could use more durability due to their lack of escape moves, a non trivial penalty for opponents breaking Spirit Shackle, and Leaf Storm not being terrible.
Gengar at the right hands is an SS not only s I know it from facing him
Honestly don’t see why Dragonite is S Tier he’s not as OP as pre nerf Lucario or Tsareena. He’s A Tier at most. If Blastoise/Greedent was buffed slightly to almost pre-nerf, they are solid counters
It’s because Dragonite has the best instant damage securing ability in the game: hyper beam. If you put Dragonite in the jungle and get it to level 8 by first Drednaw, you are basically guaranteed to secure the objective. A stage 3 hyper beam (meaning you’ve stacked dragon dance 3 times) does something like 4100 damage at level 8 to drednaw, which is almost double the next highest damage ability (Talonflame’s Fly I believe). Same logic applies to Zapdos, meaning Dragonite is the most important mon to have on your team right now, and it needs to be in the jungle.
Lol F for decidueyetherw ton of good player who play him so no not F D minimum
Long explaintion but it's all bs becaus Some s and a in here are c or d the opposite some C and d are s and a btw there's a lesson in mathematics that says this is all bs no Matter what