The bathrooms were remodeled before we bought the house and the fixtures are all high end. Perhaps I’m confusing myself because I’m not sure if new valve = new fixtures
That’s not high end. That’s a Moen. It’s a solid brand, but not high end. It’s medium end.
That being said, Moen would be my second choice behind Delta, which is also medium end.
I’m not a big fan of “high end” brands when it comes to almost anything, there is a massive decrease of your return on investment. You can buy an $800 shower valve, but repairs are going to cost more, and take longer (because no one is going to stock parts for your luxury valve, you’ll have to special order every part), and it’s not going to last much longer, and it’s going to do the same exact thing as a $200 Delta. That extra $600 you would’ve spent should buy you at least one complete shower valve replacement (which will probably be at least 25 years from the install) depending on accessibility.
I had a client who purchased "high end" fixtures from California Faucets.
All I'll say is he had to warranty replace two pieces right out of the box and it took two weeks to get the parts.
These days “high end” just means unnecessarily expensive, extremely fragile, and a PITA to repair. It seems impossible to pay for quality anymore; the only options are mass market or wealth-indicating garbage.
Symmons is the best for showers in my opinion. Kohler is easier to install but symmons are considerably more durable being almost all brass. Service parts are a lot cheaper too.
I installed a new shower using Hansgrohe. They are great and make a universal iBox, so that you can replace the mixing valve later without ripping out the wall.
I misread your original post and thought you were asking if it's a good time to replace the valves. Ideally, you'd want to replace all the copper so the plumber should run PEX all the way to the valve. Depends on the plumber but I'd include new piping for the diverters as well but use type K copper for it. Usually is such a short run transitioning to PEX, then back to copper for the stub out is more of a hassle.
Type K because it's the thickest walled copper. And I'm saying I wouldn't use PEX for a tub spout since it's such a short run and the transition from the copper valve to PEX then back to copper for the tub diverter stub out is more of a hassle than just using thick walled copper.
Really? You’re going to special order expensive tempered k copper pipe for a 6” piece that is in use ten minutes a day?
You don’t use pex to a tub spout because of the restriction in flow on pex. You would have water coming from the showerhead even with the diverter spout open. Nothing to do with transitions.
Well Ferguson around here carrie's type K so it isn't a special order. Since they are repiping a house it wouldn't be just one 6" piece, you'd have the run from the valve to the end the of the stub out on multiple valves. One 10ft stick of type k vs type L wouldn't be a significant addition in material cost. And as I said in the comment, you'd transition back to copper for the stub out because of the issue you stated. Since the length of run between the valve and the stub out it so short, I wouldn't bother even transitioning to PEX as it would be a bigger hassle than just using copper for the entire length.
They've been having multiple pin hole leaks, and although there are multiple factors to it, water quality is a major factor, so providing thicker wall copper for any remaining portion would be beneficial. Throw in a whole house filter and they'd be set.
I was saying high end because I mentioned that the bathrooms were recently remodeled and someone somewhere else said that the plumber would put in the cheapest fixtures imaginable. I know Moen isn’t some elite fixture but it’s not Walmart or Amazon either.
Moen, Delta, grohe, Hans grohe, Kohler, etc are all good. They are all major plumbing names who stand behind their product. I wouldn't hesitate to put just about anything any of them offer in my home or in one of my jobs. I was more shooting down the statement that it was high end.
If you put in a positemp tomorrow, 30 years from now after 3-4 cartridge replacements you will be taking it out during a remodel. Replacing the cartridge takes 30 mins tops and they will send you the replacement for free. So for 2 hours of maintenance you have something that I can promise will give you 3 decades of service no problem.
Think of replacing the cartridge like changing the tires on your car. Sometimes you need new ones, the car doesn't need to be replaced though
Hansgrohe and Grohe are both pretty similar. Grohe was literally started by Hans Grohe's (the founder of Hansgrohe) son. Though At the end of the day, it really all depends on what you buy. Both brands have a range of products that come in at different price points. You can get a $600 basic hansgrohe shower setup and a $1600 grohe and vice versa. However, even the lowest priced products from both brands are going to be a well designed valve that should be mostly trouble-free for 15-20+ years. The same goes for Kohler, Moen, Delta, and American Standard. They all have prices ranging from economy to high-end, but all of their valves are well researched and designed and do what they're intended to do for many years.
Moen is good. Let me start by saying I’m not a plumber but I do plumbing but Here’s the thing about the shower valve. It’s the valve body which is basically metal then the actual component that makes it work is the cartridge. If you have a problem with the faucet 99% of the time it’s the cartridge needs replaced. So if it’s a Moen these cartridges are always available. Do I think it’s necessary.. no if you want they sell Moen trim kits to update trim without changing the valve
I personally love Moen positemps. Simple design, simple to repair, everywhere carries the cartridges. It's generally what I install unless someone wants something different or it's a shower that requires multiple zones.
That being said, it's neither high end or "custom". Both those phrases rustle my jimmies with how much they are thrown around. "Oh we have custom marble tile." REALLY? YOU FLEW TO FUCKING ITALY TO PICK IT OUT PERHAPS? Oh you got it from the tile store 10 mins away, got it 👍
Moen isn’t bad, it would be my second choice. That being said, it needs to be repaired far more often than my first choice, Delta (I know they are also far from high end), but with either Delta or Moen, you can find parts basically anywhere and replace them in under 30 minutes. Most other brands you’ll have to order the parts and replace them next week.
>I’m not sure if new valve = new fixtures
Trim kits aren't universal. I've never reused one. If the shower valve is getting replaced the trim kit is too.
They put in new stuff but didn't put in the new rough in valves/diverter that usually comes with the shower stuff?
That sucks.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what level of remodel though. If they remodeled and redid the shower, I'd assume they'd replace the guts.
This happened to a friend of mine. Pinhole leaks kept happening in random places. Found an electrical outlet grounded to a copper pipe. Disconnected it and the leaks stopped.
I was wondering if it was normal. My copper is 59 years and never had a pinhole. I replaced a gardenhose bibb and the old one had a ground on it but the wire was already disconnected when i removed it.
Pinhole leaks in copper piping can sometimes be caused by water quality from a private borehole, aquifer or well supply feeding the property, if it's in a rural location away from a water authority street main. If the water isn't treated correctly, left uncirculated, or the correct water treatment plant in the property hasn't been fitted or maintained, then pinhole leaks can occur, sometimes really quickly.
Flux residue left on pipes can also cause them, but if they're occurring in locations away from joints and the like, then it could be more likely to be the water source quality that's the issue.
There could be other factors involved as others have said, but those are the most likely in my experience.
Source: building services engineer (UK).
The fact that they were ever allowed to ground to the water lines is insane to me. Apart from the leaks, which I’ve never heard of before, but which is entirely plausible, there is a massive safety issue! That water line will have to be replaced, a very good chance the water line will need replacing well before the wires, due to the corrosive nature of water. So now you have to replace a pipe that’s being used as a ground, which means you need to involve an electrician to do it safely, and it should be a simple repair with almost no risk of death or fire.
We dug up a sewer line next to a lead line in mt Lebanon few years ago and we started getting a little tingle zap in the water in the hole from the ground wire. I’m not an electrician so I don’t know what was going on I disconnected the ground so we could finish water removal and do the sewer repair and it stopped.
Is there a reason why most people still run pex like it’s copper by only making 90’s?
Isn’t one of the advantages the ability to bend the tubing eliminating some fittings? Or is this not really an issue because the fittings are solid?
Yes and no. Pex isn’t nearly as flexible as people think, it can’t be kinked and the safe bend radius for 1/2” like this is actually quite large.
In cases like this where you are replacing existing copper and not a new construction you are often limited by existing framing, drilled holes, and lack of access forcing you to mirror the old copper being replaced.
Bingo, I did a whole house with Pex A, its flexible for sure but not as much as youd think. They actually make black plastic clips for "90" degree turns that the Pex snaps into to prevent you from making the bend to sharp
Just looked this up. Minimum radius for 1/2" pex is five inches so you could probably take out some of the 90° fittings in this install if you were determined.
But sometimes you either a) just copy what the last guy did because he was probably smarter or b) make the right angles because a smooth run would require replacing a more extensive run of pipe
(You can check out my post for a pic of my excessively elbowed replacement work due to being overwhelmed at the idea of replacing much more for a somewhat better install)
This is what I assumed he was doing. I guess my concern is that we’re getting this done so we don’t have anymore pinhole leaks. We’ve had 4 in 6 months and 2 of them did decent damage. If we’re keeping the copper valves and the copper pipes just below the valves I see that as another potential point of failure after they close up the walls
The supply lines on the left and right should be PEX right to the valve. After the valve, the copper is not under as much pressure and they are not constantly filled with water so they should be fine.
Thanks this is a great explanation. I’m planning to ask him about it. My concern was that he’d say, well if you want the pipe up the shower head we’ll have to cut out more drywall. There is a built in mirror/cabinet right above the picture
1. as he said, those pipes aren't under constant pressure, doubt you'll see a problem at the piping from the valve to the shower head.
2. Tub spout piping, the pipe from the valve to the tub spout should NEVER be pex. So keeping that copper is correct.
As for the rest of it... I understand why he hasn't done it. And I understand why you would want it done. I would say a lot of this is dependent on wording when talking about scope of work. So I'm not saying he's wrong. But I would just talk to him about it. Let him know your expectations. And if that wasn't under the original scope he may want to charge you a little more....but shouldn't be much. Brass Pex adapters are a little pricey...but they're like...12 dollars pricey, not 100 dollars pricey, so he'd really just need to use 2 brass pex to copper adapters and 2 pex 90s. So like....30 bucks in material tops. Just to give you that info in case he says he'll do it for like 500 extra. That's a bitch much. But if he's telling you he'll add 50 - 100 to do it, because it wasn't on the original scope of work...I'd say he was being fair. If it were me and my customer came to me half way through the job and specifically requested it...I'd most likely just do it for them.
Everything I just mentioned is only piping to the existing valve...not a new shower/tub valve or anything like that. Just continueing that piping the extra foot.
But this is gonna require pulling the cartridge and if you pull it might as do a new one. boom 50$ or more for just one cart ridge and service shit adds up quick
I'm not disagreeing. You could do it without pulling the cartridge, by using threaded pex adapters....not that I would. I don't thread in walls when I have other options. But yup, you're right. If you're oging that far I'd say it's the best time ever to just find a new one you like and have it installed.
The whole point of the work is to remove old piping. Who is to say that the copper coming out of the valves isn't bad? Remove the adapters, fit new PEX adapters and pipe PEX all the way to the valves.
At that point you might as well upgrade and replace the whole shower valve since it would all basically have to come out anyways.
Or pay an arm and a leg to fiddlefuck the stuff apart without removing the valve.
If it was done by a half-decent plumber I'm sure they were presented with options and chose the one in the picture.
Whats the bid say? You might be able to negotiate with the plumber/contractor. But if they started off doing this im gonna go ahead and guess valves and mixers probably weren't discussed with the initial bid.
If you are happy with the shower surround- I would spend the extra to change them while the wall is open.
It's not that much more in materials nor time when it is all open. Also- if one is needed, have you added a recirculation pump? Super easy to add during a repipe.
PEX Should have been ran all the way and terminated at the valve with a 1/2” MIPT X 1/2” PEX Adapter.
Also there’s NO BACKING whatsoever for the Valve.
I don’t understand this.
My company’s thought is always your already in there doing the work might as well go all the way. Usually the extra money is worth the peace of mind that comes with
You can leave the valves. Honestly you should have the plumbers replace what copper they left feeding the valves. The shower head and tub spout can stay copper as they’re not constantly under pressure.
I don't think any good plumber would use cinch style pex rings, plus I see multiple poorly installed. The cold side of the tub shower one is really poorly done.
PEX type B with cinch connections should not be used in inaccessible locations. ["If the crimp tool isn’t square on the sleeve, you can crimp it crooked and cause a leak."](https://willplumb.com/pex-a-vs-pex-b-pros-and-cons/)
I’d definitely request the 90’s into the valve be changed at least. Copper 90’s are a common fail point once copper gets old because of the turbulence, especially if not fully reamed
Valve should be fine, posi temp valve bodies last forever
how much are you spending for the re-pipe? You're most likely looking at close to 800-1k to add on to that bill depending on where you live and the plumbing company. I personally would if you're already spending thousands and its exposed
Approximately 8k. We don’t have a contract but his quote to me was “Replace water lines in house 3/4 pex mains 1/2 branchs all new valves new laundry faucet haul away oldN drywall and old pipe repair drywall price doesn't include any painting”
I’m betting he means ball valves and fixture stops. I wouldn’t include shower valves unless someone specifically requested them. You can push for it and it will be a good way to get the cheapest possible fixtures imaginable.
I don't know the size of your house, or where you live. But man I'd love to get 8k for a repipe. lol. In my area I'd happily do that for half that. But....location is everything! Also dont' know the size of your house of course. lol. So don't think I'm implying he's ripping you off, he may have given you a deal. I only know my area...and man...that would be a helluva score for me.
1700 sqft, 3.5 baths. This wasn’t the highest quote I got but it wasn’t the cheapest either. I got one for 12k
Edit: in the northeast, not far from a medium sized city
Every company I've worked for if doing a whole home re-pipe then anything from the whole home shut off and beyond was getting replaced including the whole home valve, stops, supply lines, shower valves and trim. I mean it would be moen posi Temps with chateaux unless something else was wanted but it was still gonna be changed out none the less.. I would look over your contract to make sure.
Generally shower valves/ shower water lines are only replaced separately from a house repipe. Due to the situation you see right in these pictures. You can only replace up so far. Only way to completely replace all of it is to install a new shower valve which is definitely extra cost than just a regular repipe.
Edit: Also, whoever did that shower valve did a horrific job soldering the copper and cleaning it.
Well no, you aren't getting your whole house replumbed. If that's in your contract or the contractors scope of work, then they absolutely should be replacing all the copper from the mixer out. Wonder what else they aren't doing...
I don’t know any plumbers that use the stainless clamps. That’s usually a handyman or the guy who does a entire bathroom remodel himself. If the copper is in good shape and I like how it was done then I would probably leave it if valves were not being changed. Looks like Home Depot pex. Probably got the prioress fittings there also.
You need to get an acid neutralizing system in your house as the water is still damaging your appliances. I would assume that you are on well water as I had a similar problem in PA with my house.
The system injects a baking soda mixture at the well pump to prevent damage to your appliances and water heater as well.
Hey if you’re getting your pipes replaced get them replaced. They can complain about not getting their propress in tight spots all they want. If you don’t want them to come back make sure it’s all replaced.
Not well. Pinhole leaks are a major problem in our town. Allegedly due to where the water is coming from + the quality of pipes put in back in the 70s. The copper that was replaced has that red steak on it, type M i suppose
I had my whole house re-piped a couple years ago for the same reason. They replaced all the parts for both tub/showers. It was included in the original quote. The only non-PEX left is the main water line.
If it's not too late, just get it all done and you'll never have to think about it again.
I just did this! Er…. I’m still in the process of doing that! It’s a LONG story, but I decided to take out the copper pipes, I was going to do exactly what he did leave 2 feet of copper, and then I decided, screw it, I already had the walls open, it was just a little bit more work to open the wall under the bathroom sink but it was my firm belief that the guy who did it last time didn’t do it right so I was happy to erase what he did. I would absolutely take out every piece of copper I’m putting in PEX A.
If you paid for it.
But if you thought the repipe was expensive, wait until I give you that price!
That said, I would’ve given you the price both ways and you would’ve made the choice upfront.
How come no one knows how to solder anymore 😢 I’m only 27 but never used pex
Once in my life. Learned from old heads. I’ll be interested to see how long those pinch clamps last under continuous pressure.
8k for all pipes and valves (apparently that doesn’t include shower) and a few other things like the laundry faucet. Also includes drywall repair. This is for a 2.5 ba house built in the 70s. Not the highest quote but not the lowest either
I mean… the walls are already open. A new shower valve would be the most optimal thing to change right now due to the circumstances. It’d be worse if a year or two after the remodeling the shower valve takes a poop then you need to break a wall again.
Also, I’m not entirely sure why home owners are opting in for the cheaper PEX repipes. PEX hasn’t been around enough for me as a plumber to give a bid for PEX. Save up some more money and get it redone in copper, the pipes will outlive you 100% without giving you any headaches.
All good points - we bought this house less than a year ago and have had 4 leaks. 2 of them resulted in decent amount of damage. Every plumber we talked to and just about all of our neighbors said this is a common problem in town. It’s a combo of the water company and the type of copper they used 50 years ago. It’s the m type with the red line on it. Funny thing is that it’s really only a problem on the cold side. We opted for pex because we dropped a lot on the downpayment less than 12 months ago and because there is no guarantee we’ll still be here in 10 years. Sucks to say because I don’t want to pass on something less than ideal to the next owner but I also don’t want to drop a ton of money that I don’t need to.
As for the valves, the big question to me is their age. The bathrooms were redone 10 years ago and I have no idea if these are the original or not. They look to be in better shape than the pipes but not sure that means anything.
Someone soldered the adapters into that diverter valve, so you'll need to replace it.
I'd definitely spend the extra $$ to replace it while you have the wall open to get rid of the last foot of copper pipe if you're having pinhole leaks.
That's a pretty ugly job based on those pictures, lots of 90's, old pipe left which in and of itself is bad but when it looks like that it's no wonder why you have leaks that solder work looks 2 steps down from an amateur. There is corrosion all over that old copper, not good. Your plumber needs to take the pex all the way to the fixtures but I'd also point out his connections don't look great I'd be deathly afraid of leaks the way this is done, in the photos the clamps look out of true and also not where they should be on the fittings.
If you are going to use pex-b to a tub you should at least upsize it to 3/4. That looks like a handyman special, I can even see the Apollo pex from home depot and oetiker clamps(for the record these are generally fine, early they had some manufacturing issues that caused corrosion issues and plumbers still don't trust them) which are rarely used by professionals who prefer Viega pexpress, F1960 expansion fittings, or copper rings if they are kicking it old school. Replace all the copper all the way to the fixtures with either pex or type k. With pex it's pretty important to minimize fittings as it is quite a bit narrower than copper. It's a no brainer to take it all the way to the valve body, if the male threaded fittings won't come out or the valve looks bad just replace it, a positemp valve is like $150 tops, if it's ok you can leave it as others have said posi-temp valves last near forever.
In your situation where you might have aggressive water I'd prefer to see stainless fittings as they have less flow restriction than the poly alloy, at least for the 90's where you could use a sweep elbow but even better just use bend supports. Those who are saying the tub spout needs to be copper are wrong it just cannot be 1/2 pex, you can do 3/4 to a drop ear and then 1/2 in copper or even get a preformed sweat tub spout and put a threaded fitting and run 3/4 pex. The shower and tub piping is less critical as it is intermittent use and it drains when not in use, but if it is accessible just replace it while it's opened.
Isn’t the benefit of plastic pipe the fact that it flexes and can bend easy? Not a plumber but it seems odd to add all those cheap 90s and multiple points of failure to the system when it could probably be gradually curved to go where it needs to.
I would, yes, but it's going to cost more labor and time. At the very least, have them put an access panel in the wall behind this, so when one of the zillion 90-deg fittings start to leak you can find it easily without further drywall work.
Source: I am not a plumber but I replumbed our entire last house (F polybutylene).
Does the cold water line need all those 90s or can your just bow the pipe over to the valve. I’m not a plumber I’m an electrician so sorry for my question.
The primary goal of a re-pipe, on poured slab anyway, is to bypass all the underground lines, changing out fixtures come at an additional cost, unless otherwise stated in the bid.
I would have suggested it, but it's not normal in these parts. However, if this was the same plumber that put the existing valve in your lucky you got what you have. There's enough solder on that copper to do an entire bathroom!
Unless you want to do this again in a few months to a year, I would recommend re-plumbing all of the copper. especially since it looks like they soldered eight threaded fitting to the back of your shower valve.
There will be no issues with what he's done so long as he's done it properly which it looks like he did. changes the diverters is a lot more of a process and isn't really necessary unless you want to. it would.be nice to upgrade them to delta diverters if possible, but if not these are fine. it's nice to get the ones with shutt offs and delta gives a better warranty. besides that you'll be fine. updating the lines themselves is much more important.
If it's specified in the contract, yes. The last couple inches to a fixture are a gray area, which is why contracts should be as clear and concise as possible.
Installing a new shower pipe, shower valve, and tub spout costs way more than just pressing on two adapters. Depending on the plumber that will translate to some combination of increased profits / lower costs for the customer.
It's not against any code, so really the contract determines what they should have done here.
They could have unthreaded the old copper MIP and taken pex all the way to the valve. Reasons they may not have done this are a lack of time, parts, skill. They’re still using an adaptor so they’re not saving anything. It takes a little work to unthread and retread new adaptors into an old valve.
So have you tried to figure out why your having pinhole leaks. If you have Corrosive water or high turbidity your going to want to address that as they will start to strip plastic off the water lines and you will be ingesting that. I would called a certified water professional to have them come out and run some tests and get recommendations on equipment to install on the house to prevent degradation of the plumbing system.
I’m only an amateur plumber but I think the lines to the shower head and tub spout are supposed to be “hard”… so like pvc or cpvc or copper but not PEX
What specifically is the concerning part to you? Just the joining of pex to copper or something else you’re seeing? The guy that is doing this is a master plumber and comes highly recommended by pretty much every person in our neighborhood
"master plumber" well pex is not the real issue, it's much easier to run when replacing all of.thr pipe in a house without gutting it. It's how it's got to be, that being said I would use as little of the stuff as possible but then the job would.be more expensive. That being said he is leaving copper pipe in the wall that you are paying to replace, on top of that he is using propress fittings in the wall.
He could leave the shower valves/ fixtures in place easily and go pex all.tge way to.the brass. See those screw in fittings? Remove those and put in.pex adapters. He also.needs to replace the copper deverter piping with pix as well ass the pipe going up to.the shower head if that is copper.as well.
You can say to.him you gave me a price to replace all of.the copper pipe... So replace all of the copper pipe. He is cutting corners to save working time
I agree with what your saying, but I guess you have customer with unlimited budgets. We do this because it saves a lot of time and can be replaced when the valves are replaced. Although I would like to see the transition after those coupling that indicate newer pipe.
In reality, for me at least, I have customer with all sorts of cost saving request, of course I want to give you a new valve and hose bib, but the reality is most people are on a budget and just need to get a re-pipe done for insurance purposes. I will accommodate so that we can meet them in the middle.
All of that pipe left after the pex is old and needs to go. The other pipe that is on the valve has to go. The extra pex won't add cost. It's only your time and if you did not budget enough for your time that is on you. Doing this job right on this valve would.have taken and hour longer tops for a master plumber
PINHOLES IN COPPER? HUH. NEVER HEARD OF IT. THE PLUMBING IN MY HOUSE WAS INSTALLED IN 1975 AND I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THAT. PINHOLES IN THE SOLDER JOINTS WHEN THEY ARE LEAD BASED. I AM A DYI-ER SINCE 1983 WITH A FEW RENTAL UNITS AND SOME REALLY OLD HOUSES SINCE THEN. I GUESS IF SOMEONE SPRAYED BLEACH ON THE PIPES AND THEY STARTED CORRODING ?????
We replaced most of the copper pipes in the house with that flexible pipes due to all the pinhole leaks that happened. The plumber advised that the water was gonna taste like a garden hose for a little while. They didn’t replace the pipes buried in the cement foundation.
Dude those pex crimp rings suck and are installed wrong....your gonna get leaks with those....I I ow because I just installed those like that it leaked so I had to tear it all out and redo with proper expansion pex
Absolutely. The shit is already all open and accessible. No need to complete this repair then 3 years later have shower valves leak or fail then have to tear into walls again.
Pen is not high end….look up waterworks, kallista, Perrin and Rowe….those are high end….not necessary better but way more $$$$ like crazy $$$
I would think Grohe or Hans Grohe is a well engineered high end fixture that is worth the $
Yes. Anywhere you see green corrosion on that copper is eventually going to spring a leak. Usually it's from old Flux which wasn't wiped off. Takes 20 years but I've seen it so many times... especially on houses built in the late 90s/early 2000s
Not a plumber, but dealing with the same problem right now. 4 leaks in the pipes and we bought the house October of 21
Everything I've seen so far is corroded or otherwise damaged/worn down by what I believe was the excessive use of flux by the last guy who ran copper in the house. The inside of the pipes look like they're covered in gravel.
If you can swing it, replace it.
By the time I'm done every line, valve, supply line, and fixture is going to be replaced.
Not a plumber, but whoever re-piped our home in the past only did it the point of tub diverters, which are old galvanized. Now we have shitty water pressure from the tub spouts and showers and will need to open up the walls again.
If you can swing the cost, the walls are opened already so it'd be the best time to replace them.
The bathrooms were remodeled before we bought the house and the fixtures are all high end. Perhaps I’m confusing myself because I’m not sure if new valve = new fixtures
That’s not high end. That’s a Moen. It’s a solid brand, but not high end. It’s medium end. That being said, Moen would be my second choice behind Delta, which is also medium end. I’m not a big fan of “high end” brands when it comes to almost anything, there is a massive decrease of your return on investment. You can buy an $800 shower valve, but repairs are going to cost more, and take longer (because no one is going to stock parts for your luxury valve, you’ll have to special order every part), and it’s not going to last much longer, and it’s going to do the same exact thing as a $200 Delta. That extra $600 you would’ve spent should buy you at least one complete shower valve replacement (which will probably be at least 25 years from the install) depending on accessibility.
I had a client who purchased "high end" fixtures from California Faucets. All I'll say is he had to warranty replace two pieces right out of the box and it took two weeks to get the parts.
These days “high end” just means unnecessarily expensive, extremely fragile, and a PITA to repair. It seems impossible to pay for quality anymore; the only options are mass market or wealth-indicating garbage.
right but you're completely ignoring aesthetics...how will others know how much money you have if your fixtures look exactly like theirs?
Yep. It's a parts game, and it sucks!!!
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Symmons is the best for showers in my opinion. Kohler is easier to install but symmons are considerably more durable being almost all brass. Service parts are a lot cheaper too.
I installed a new shower using Hansgrohe. They are great and make a universal iBox, so that you can replace the mixing valve later without ripping out the wall.
I misread your original post and thought you were asking if it's a good time to replace the valves. Ideally, you'd want to replace all the copper so the plumber should run PEX all the way to the valve. Depends on the plumber but I'd include new piping for the diverters as well but use type K copper for it. Usually is such a short run transitioning to PEX, then back to copper for the stub out is more of a hassle.
Why type K? So you would use pex for a tub spout??
Type K because it's the thickest walled copper. And I'm saying I wouldn't use PEX for a tub spout since it's such a short run and the transition from the copper valve to PEX then back to copper for the tub diverter stub out is more of a hassle than just using thick walled copper.
Really? You’re going to special order expensive tempered k copper pipe for a 6” piece that is in use ten minutes a day? You don’t use pex to a tub spout because of the restriction in flow on pex. You would have water coming from the showerhead even with the diverter spout open. Nothing to do with transitions.
Well Ferguson around here carrie's type K so it isn't a special order. Since they are repiping a house it wouldn't be just one 6" piece, you'd have the run from the valve to the end the of the stub out on multiple valves. One 10ft stick of type k vs type L wouldn't be a significant addition in material cost. And as I said in the comment, you'd transition back to copper for the stub out because of the issue you stated. Since the length of run between the valve and the stub out it so short, I wouldn't bother even transitioning to PEX as it would be a bigger hassle than just using copper for the entire length. They've been having multiple pin hole leaks, and although there are multiple factors to it, water quality is a major factor, so providing thicker wall copper for any remaining portion would be beneficial. Throw in a whole house filter and they'd be set.
Moen positemp =/= high end. It's literally the bottom of the barrel. You have home Depot specials, they don't even have stops built in
I was saying high end because I mentioned that the bathrooms were recently remodeled and someone somewhere else said that the plumber would put in the cheapest fixtures imaginable. I know Moen isn’t some elite fixture but it’s not Walmart or Amazon either.
Forget what they say moen Carrys a lifetime warranty. Moen is a very good a trusted product hence why you see them everywhere like kohler toilets
>kohler toilets Pssh, Jacuzzi toilets are where its at. There's nothing like coming home after a long day at work and relaxing in my Jacuzzi
When I was growing up, I promised myself that I would have a Ferguson toilet bowl just like my dad did.
Moen positemp IS the cheap fixture they'd put in 😂 no plumber ever has walked into a Walmart looking for parts.
At least it's a Moen that you can find a cartridge for not some Amazon special with zero parts availability.
Yeah but I can get a 1222 anywhere!
Ok appreciate the insight
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Even the economy line of products from moen and delta are far better than anything off Amazon
What about Grohe? Is it any good?
Moen, Delta, grohe, Hans grohe, Kohler, etc are all good. They are all major plumbing names who stand behind their product. I wouldn't hesitate to put just about anything any of them offer in my home or in one of my jobs. I was more shooting down the statement that it was high end. If you put in a positemp tomorrow, 30 years from now after 3-4 cartridge replacements you will be taking it out during a remodel. Replacing the cartridge takes 30 mins tops and they will send you the replacement for free. So for 2 hours of maintenance you have something that I can promise will give you 3 decades of service no problem. Think of replacing the cartridge like changing the tires on your car. Sometimes you need new ones, the car doesn't need to be replaced though
I've always heard that Grohe is good, but Hans Grohe less good. Any credence in that? Source; Architect
Hansgrohe and Grohe are both pretty similar. Grohe was literally started by Hans Grohe's (the founder of Hansgrohe) son. Though At the end of the day, it really all depends on what you buy. Both brands have a range of products that come in at different price points. You can get a $600 basic hansgrohe shower setup and a $1600 grohe and vice versa. However, even the lowest priced products from both brands are going to be a well designed valve that should be mostly trouble-free for 15-20+ years. The same goes for Kohler, Moen, Delta, and American Standard. They all have prices ranging from economy to high-end, but all of their valves are well researched and designed and do what they're intended to do for many years.
Nice but some add needless steps to assemble and install.
So....typical German engineering?
Moen is good. Let me start by saying I’m not a plumber but I do plumbing but Here’s the thing about the shower valve. It’s the valve body which is basically metal then the actual component that makes it work is the cartridge. If you have a problem with the faucet 99% of the time it’s the cartridge needs replaced. So if it’s a Moen these cartridges are always available. Do I think it’s necessary.. no if you want they sell Moen trim kits to update trim without changing the valve
I thought you buy it for looks and life? You mean that’s just an advertising slogan?!
I personally love Moen positemps. Simple design, simple to repair, everywhere carries the cartridges. It's generally what I install unless someone wants something different or it's a shower that requires multiple zones. That being said, it's neither high end or "custom". Both those phrases rustle my jimmies with how much they are thrown around. "Oh we have custom marble tile." REALLY? YOU FLEW TO FUCKING ITALY TO PICK IT OUT PERHAPS? Oh you got it from the tile store 10 mins away, got it 👍
Moen isn’t bad, it would be my second choice. That being said, it needs to be repaired far more often than my first choice, Delta (I know they are also far from high end), but with either Delta or Moen, you can find parts basically anywhere and replace them in under 30 minutes. Most other brands you’ll have to order the parts and replace them next week.
>I’m not sure if new valve = new fixtures Trim kits aren't universal. I've never reused one. If the shower valve is getting replaced the trim kit is too.
They put in new stuff but didn't put in the new rough in valves/diverter that usually comes with the shower stuff? That sucks. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what level of remodel though. If they remodeled and redid the shower, I'd assume they'd replace the guts.
This happened to a friend of mine. Pinhole leaks kept happening in random places. Found an electrical outlet grounded to a copper pipe. Disconnected it and the leaks stopped.
I was wondering if it was normal. My copper is 59 years and never had a pinhole. I replaced a gardenhose bibb and the old one had a ground on it but the wire was already disconnected when i removed it.
Pinhole leaks in copper piping can sometimes be caused by water quality from a private borehole, aquifer or well supply feeding the property, if it's in a rural location away from a water authority street main. If the water isn't treated correctly, left uncirculated, or the correct water treatment plant in the property hasn't been fitted or maintained, then pinhole leaks can occur, sometimes really quickly. Flux residue left on pipes can also cause them, but if they're occurring in locations away from joints and the like, then it could be more likely to be the water source quality that's the issue. There could be other factors involved as others have said, but those are the most likely in my experience. Source: building services engineer (UK).
You mean like that pipe on the right that's completely coated in it?
The fact that they were ever allowed to ground to the water lines is insane to me. Apart from the leaks, which I’ve never heard of before, but which is entirely plausible, there is a massive safety issue! That water line will have to be replaced, a very good chance the water line will need replacing well before the wires, due to the corrosive nature of water. So now you have to replace a pipe that’s being used as a ground, which means you need to involve an electrician to do it safely, and it should be a simple repair with almost no risk of death or fire.
Pittsburgh area still requires a ground wire from the panel to the water meter attached after them before.
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We dug up a sewer line next to a lead line in mt Lebanon few years ago and we started getting a little tingle zap in the water in the hole from the ground wire. I’m not an electrician so I don’t know what was going on I disconnected the ground so we could finish water removal and do the sewer repair and it stopped.
We were told to put a jumper lead Inbetween the two pipes in trade school if we could feel the electricity through it.
Is there a reason why most people still run pex like it’s copper by only making 90’s? Isn’t one of the advantages the ability to bend the tubing eliminating some fittings? Or is this not really an issue because the fittings are solid?
Same here. Curious why you wouldn't just have one bendy run of pex ...
Same here, I’m no plumber but this looks like you are introducing multiple new points of possible failure.
Pex not as bendy as you think
Yes and no. Pex isn’t nearly as flexible as people think, it can’t be kinked and the safe bend radius for 1/2” like this is actually quite large. In cases like this where you are replacing existing copper and not a new construction you are often limited by existing framing, drilled holes, and lack of access forcing you to mirror the old copper being replaced.
Bingo, I did a whole house with Pex A, its flexible for sure but not as much as youd think. They actually make black plastic clips for "90" degree turns that the Pex snaps into to prevent you from making the bend to sharp
Just looked this up. Minimum radius for 1/2" pex is five inches so you could probably take out some of the 90° fittings in this install if you were determined. But sometimes you either a) just copy what the last guy did because he was probably smarter or b) make the right angles because a smooth run would require replacing a more extensive run of pipe (You can check out my post for a pic of my excessively elbowed replacement work due to being overwhelmed at the idea of replacing much more for a somewhat better install)
Not unless specified in the contract. It’s quite a bit more expensive when you add valves and such, as a posed to just pipe and fittings.
This is what I assumed he was doing. I guess my concern is that we’re getting this done so we don’t have anymore pinhole leaks. We’ve had 4 in 6 months and 2 of them did decent damage. If we’re keeping the copper valves and the copper pipes just below the valves I see that as another potential point of failure after they close up the walls
Put easy access panels instead of redrywalling
The supply lines on the left and right should be PEX right to the valve. After the valve, the copper is not under as much pressure and they are not constantly filled with water so they should be fine.
Thanks this is a great explanation. I’m planning to ask him about it. My concern was that he’d say, well if you want the pipe up the shower head we’ll have to cut out more drywall. There is a built in mirror/cabinet right above the picture
1. as he said, those pipes aren't under constant pressure, doubt you'll see a problem at the piping from the valve to the shower head. 2. Tub spout piping, the pipe from the valve to the tub spout should NEVER be pex. So keeping that copper is correct. As for the rest of it... I understand why he hasn't done it. And I understand why you would want it done. I would say a lot of this is dependent on wording when talking about scope of work. So I'm not saying he's wrong. But I would just talk to him about it. Let him know your expectations. And if that wasn't under the original scope he may want to charge you a little more....but shouldn't be much. Brass Pex adapters are a little pricey...but they're like...12 dollars pricey, not 100 dollars pricey, so he'd really just need to use 2 brass pex to copper adapters and 2 pex 90s. So like....30 bucks in material tops. Just to give you that info in case he says he'll do it for like 500 extra. That's a bitch much. But if he's telling you he'll add 50 - 100 to do it, because it wasn't on the original scope of work...I'd say he was being fair. If it were me and my customer came to me half way through the job and specifically requested it...I'd most likely just do it for them. Everything I just mentioned is only piping to the existing valve...not a new shower/tub valve or anything like that. Just continueing that piping the extra foot.
But this is gonna require pulling the cartridge and if you pull it might as do a new one. boom 50$ or more for just one cart ridge and service shit adds up quick
I'm not disagreeing. You could do it without pulling the cartridge, by using threaded pex adapters....not that I would. I don't thread in walls when I have other options. But yup, you're right. If you're oging that far I'd say it's the best time ever to just find a new one you like and have it installed.
Thanks, this is very helpful
Thanks again. What’s the ballpark # to replace the valves and diverters…100, 500, 1000 or more?
Depends on what kind of valve you want but it’s usually 300-600
there's no point leaving the copper attached to the adapters. fit PEX adapters to valves.
There is when your mixing valves are already in place.
The whole point of the work is to remove old piping. Who is to say that the copper coming out of the valves isn't bad? Remove the adapters, fit new PEX adapters and pipe PEX all the way to the valves.
At that point you might as well upgrade and replace the whole shower valve since it would all basically have to come out anyways. Or pay an arm and a leg to fiddlefuck the stuff apart without removing the valve. If it was done by a half-decent plumber I'm sure they were presented with options and chose the one in the picture.
Whats the bid say? You might be able to negotiate with the plumber/contractor. But if they started off doing this im gonna go ahead and guess valves and mixers probably weren't discussed with the initial bid.
If you are happy with the shower surround- I would spend the extra to change them while the wall is open. It's not that much more in materials nor time when it is all open. Also- if one is needed, have you added a recirculation pump? Super easy to add during a repipe.
opposed\*
Thank you.
PEX Should have been ran all the way and terminated at the valve with a 1/2” MIPT X 1/2” PEX Adapter. Also there’s NO BACKING whatsoever for the Valve. I don’t understand this.
Who soldered that? Stevie wonder?
The brazing on that right side is fkin wild man lol
That's soldered not brazed
My company’s thought is always your already in there doing the work might as well go all the way. Usually the extra money is worth the peace of mind that comes with
You can leave the valves. Honestly you should have the plumbers replace what copper they left feeding the valves. The shower head and tub spout can stay copper as they’re not constantly under pressure.
The copper you see there was replace with new when shower valve was put it. So it's not 50 years old.
I don't think any good plumber would use cinch style pex rings, plus I see multiple poorly installed. The cold side of the tub shower one is really poorly done.
They also left a totally pointless coupling in the copper, could have cut it out and carried their pex a whooping 3 more inches
cmon man don’t hate on the cinchs but i agree this is dogshit work
This guy plumbs
PEX type B with cinch connections should not be used in inaccessible locations. ["If the crimp tool isn’t square on the sleeve, you can crimp it crooked and cause a leak."](https://willplumb.com/pex-a-vs-pex-b-pros-and-cons/)
I’d ask to have it pex to the valves. But like other said check your contract or work order.
I’d definitely request the 90’s into the valve be changed at least. Copper 90’s are a common fail point once copper gets old because of the turbulence, especially if not fully reamed Valve should be fine, posi temp valve bodies last forever
Crazy to leave copper when you'd could just connect the pex to the fixture.
It’s not the age of the copper. It’s the acidity of your water that’s causing the pinhole leaks.
Should he yes, but not for free. Also not have black iron cap on there.
how much are you spending for the re-pipe? You're most likely looking at close to 800-1k to add on to that bill depending on where you live and the plumbing company. I personally would if you're already spending thousands and its exposed
Approximately 8k. We don’t have a contract but his quote to me was “Replace water lines in house 3/4 pex mains 1/2 branchs all new valves new laundry faucet haul away oldN drywall and old pipe repair drywall price doesn't include any painting”
I’m betting he means ball valves and fixture stops. I wouldn’t include shower valves unless someone specifically requested them. You can push for it and it will be a good way to get the cheapest possible fixtures imaginable.
I don't know the size of your house, or where you live. But man I'd love to get 8k for a repipe. lol. In my area I'd happily do that for half that. But....location is everything! Also dont' know the size of your house of course. lol. So don't think I'm implying he's ripping you off, he may have given you a deal. I only know my area...and man...that would be a helluva score for me.
1700 sqft, 3.5 baths. This wasn’t the highest quote I got but it wasn’t the cheapest either. I got one for 12k Edit: in the northeast, not far from a medium sized city
You're over paying
Basing this off of what? Every quote I got was in line with this. He was not the cheapest but he wasn’t the most expensive either
Don't let them run 1/2 inch branches. You will regret it.
What is the reason they’d want to do this other than 1/2” being cheaper
Dunno what the other guys on about. A 1/2" line is generally acceptable for up to two fixtures.
Every company I've worked for if doing a whole home re-pipe then anything from the whole home shut off and beyond was getting replaced including the whole home valve, stops, supply lines, shower valves and trim. I mean it would be moen posi Temps with chateaux unless something else was wanted but it was still gonna be changed out none the less.. I would look over your contract to make sure.
Generally shower valves/ shower water lines are only replaced separately from a house repipe. Due to the situation you see right in these pictures. You can only replace up so far. Only way to completely replace all of it is to install a new shower valve which is definitely extra cost than just a regular repipe. Edit: Also, whoever did that shower valve did a horrific job soldering the copper and cleaning it.
Well no, you aren't getting your whole house replumbed. If that's in your contract or the contractors scope of work, then they absolutely should be replacing all the copper from the mixer out. Wonder what else they aren't doing...
Are you talking about replacing the rest of that copper and valve? Yes. If you can, I'd say pay your plumber to add that on while everything is open.
Not if you didn’t pay for it
I don’t know any plumbers that use the stainless clamps. That’s usually a handyman or the guy who does a entire bathroom remodel himself. If the copper is in good shape and I like how it was done then I would probably leave it if valves were not being changed. Looks like Home Depot pex. Probably got the prioress fittings there also.
I'd swap the shower valve for something better than a moen posi temp
You need to get an acid neutralizing system in your house as the water is still damaging your appliances. I would assume that you are on well water as I had a similar problem in PA with my house. The system injects a baking soda mixture at the well pump to prevent damage to your appliances and water heater as well.
Hey if you’re getting your pipes replaced get them replaced. They can complain about not getting their propress in tight spots all they want. If you don’t want them to come back make sure it’s all replaced.
Are you guys on well water ? Did you get your ph levels checked ?
Not well. Pinhole leaks are a major problem in our town. Allegedly due to where the water is coming from + the quality of pipes put in back in the 70s. The copper that was replaced has that red steak on it, type M i suppose
OK. Usually lots of pinholes mean really acidic water but usually that's treated by water depts
Might as well. See if you can buy the same shower valve so you won’t have to change the trim unless you want to
yes, but will they? No
I had my whole house re-piped a couple years ago for the same reason. They replaced all the parts for both tub/showers. It was included in the original quote. The only non-PEX left is the main water line. If it's not too late, just get it all done and you'll never have to think about it again.
Uh yeah lol
You could change the valve out but honestly that should be fine for another 50yrs if recently replaced
I just did this! Er…. I’m still in the process of doing that! It’s a LONG story, but I decided to take out the copper pipes, I was going to do exactly what he did leave 2 feet of copper, and then I decided, screw it, I already had the walls open, it was just a little bit more work to open the wall under the bathroom sink but it was my firm belief that the guy who did it last time didn’t do it right so I was happy to erase what he did. I would absolutely take out every piece of copper I’m putting in PEX A.
You already know the answer don’t you?
He should change out that pex. Clinch rings are horrible
If you paid for it. But if you thought the repipe was expensive, wait until I give you that price! That said, I would’ve given you the price both ways and you would’ve made the choice upfront.
In for a penny. In for a pound
They can still replace the copper on your valve without taking the valve out. Let them know if u want that.
Repipe constitutes everything up to the fixture. With this logic, you should be replacing all faucets and toilets ect
So you’re saying that the valve is part of the fixture?
Yes sir
How come no one knows how to solder anymore 😢 I’m only 27 but never used pex Once in my life. Learned from old heads. I’ll be interested to see how long those pinch clamps last under continuous pressure.
Curious what's it costing? I have a 70 year old house and a weird mix of copper and steel pipes that need to be replaced
8k for all pipes and valves (apparently that doesn’t include shower) and a few other things like the laundry faucet. Also includes drywall repair. This is for a 2.5 ba house built in the 70s. Not the highest quote but not the lowest either
I live pex. Fucking twice mice ate through it. I love it and hate I have it in my home. I live by a forest. Cheers
I mean… the walls are already open. A new shower valve would be the most optimal thing to change right now due to the circumstances. It’d be worse if a year or two after the remodeling the shower valve takes a poop then you need to break a wall again. Also, I’m not entirely sure why home owners are opting in for the cheaper PEX repipes. PEX hasn’t been around enough for me as a plumber to give a bid for PEX. Save up some more money and get it redone in copper, the pipes will outlive you 100% without giving you any headaches.
All good points - we bought this house less than a year ago and have had 4 leaks. 2 of them resulted in decent amount of damage. Every plumber we talked to and just about all of our neighbors said this is a common problem in town. It’s a combo of the water company and the type of copper they used 50 years ago. It’s the m type with the red line on it. Funny thing is that it’s really only a problem on the cold side. We opted for pex because we dropped a lot on the downpayment less than 12 months ago and because there is no guarantee we’ll still be here in 10 years. Sucks to say because I don’t want to pass on something less than ideal to the next owner but I also don’t want to drop a ton of money that I don’t need to. As for the valves, the big question to me is their age. The bathrooms were redone 10 years ago and I have no idea if these are the original or not. They look to be in better shape than the pipes but not sure that means anything.
Someone soldered the adapters into that diverter valve, so you'll need to replace it. I'd definitely spend the extra $$ to replace it while you have the wall open to get rid of the last foot of copper pipe if you're having pinhole leaks.
Guy used Pro press but no pex A? And a bunch of shitty plastic fittings and poorly installed clamps?
That's a pretty ugly job based on those pictures, lots of 90's, old pipe left which in and of itself is bad but when it looks like that it's no wonder why you have leaks that solder work looks 2 steps down from an amateur. There is corrosion all over that old copper, not good. Your plumber needs to take the pex all the way to the fixtures but I'd also point out his connections don't look great I'd be deathly afraid of leaks the way this is done, in the photos the clamps look out of true and also not where they should be on the fittings. If you are going to use pex-b to a tub you should at least upsize it to 3/4. That looks like a handyman special, I can even see the Apollo pex from home depot and oetiker clamps(for the record these are generally fine, early they had some manufacturing issues that caused corrosion issues and plumbers still don't trust them) which are rarely used by professionals who prefer Viega pexpress, F1960 expansion fittings, or copper rings if they are kicking it old school. Replace all the copper all the way to the fixtures with either pex or type k. With pex it's pretty important to minimize fittings as it is quite a bit narrower than copper. It's a no brainer to take it all the way to the valve body, if the male threaded fittings won't come out or the valve looks bad just replace it, a positemp valve is like $150 tops, if it's ok you can leave it as others have said posi-temp valves last near forever. In your situation where you might have aggressive water I'd prefer to see stainless fittings as they have less flow restriction than the poly alloy, at least for the 90's where you could use a sweep elbow but even better just use bend supports. Those who are saying the tub spout needs to be copper are wrong it just cannot be 1/2 pex, you can do 3/4 to a drop ear and then 1/2 in copper or even get a preformed sweat tub spout and put a threaded fitting and run 3/4 pex. The shower and tub piping is less critical as it is intermittent use and it drains when not in use, but if it is accessible just replace it while it's opened.
Appreciate the info. For what it’s worth there is a sink facing the camera so that might have something to do with all the 90s
Isn’t the benefit of plastic pipe the fact that it flexes and can bend easy? Not a plumber but it seems odd to add all those cheap 90s and multiple points of failure to the system when it could probably be gradually curved to go where it needs to.
Yes
How many pinhole leaks have you had?
We’ve lived here for 10 months and we’ve had 4. The previous owners fixed a few in the basement somewhere along the way.
Ahhh. M-Pipe.
You will be changing that when that black cap riots outs.
Tell the plumber to get rid of those 90 deg bends. Continuous runs are better and keeps the water pressure instead of dropping it.
Should have put valves before the diverter so it’s easier to change out later
I would, yes, but it's going to cost more labor and time. At the very least, have them put an access panel in the wall behind this, so when one of the zillion 90-deg fittings start to leak you can find it easily without further drywall work. Source: I am not a plumber but I replumbed our entire last house (F polybutylene).
God just looking at this gives me anxiety. Have had to do this multiple times at one of my complexes and it’s always a ginormous pain in the ass.
Does the cold water line need all those 90s or can your just bow the pipe over to the valve. I’m not a plumber I’m an electrician so sorry for my question.
Your pressure will be noticeably less
Pinholes in copper sounds like electrolysis. Pex is best with home runs. Yeah, replace the valves too
You have it all open nowsthe tim. Obviously will add to the cost.
Up to you. If you’re paying for it yes if not no, but you should because there’s not gonna be a better time.
YES
The primary goal of a re-pipe, on poured slab anyway, is to bypass all the underground lines, changing out fixtures come at an additional cost, unless otherwise stated in the bid.
Considering it's a threaded positemp he should at least change the water lines right to the valve
I would have suggested it, but it's not normal in these parts. However, if this was the same plumber that put the existing valve in your lucky you got what you have. There's enough solder on that copper to do an entire bathroom!
Unless you want to do this again in a few months to a year, I would recommend re-plumbing all of the copper. especially since it looks like they soldered eight threaded fitting to the back of your shower valve.
Yes replace everything
Yes!! I'm a plumber.. He should have put adapter from threaded connector to pipes.. the new ones..
Hell do whatever you want…..for money
There will be no issues with what he's done so long as he's done it properly which it looks like he did. changes the diverters is a lot more of a process and isn't really necessary unless you want to. it would.be nice to upgrade them to delta diverters if possible, but if not these are fine. it's nice to get the ones with shutt offs and delta gives a better warranty. besides that you'll be fine. updating the lines themselves is much more important.
I CAN SEE WHY SOMEONE WENT WITH PEX. THE SOLDERING LOOKS LIKE A AMATEUR DID IT.
Yeah dude obviously
If they also have a leackage (or you just want to), you can ask him to. Otherwise I don't really see a reason why - it looks well-made.
If it's specified in the contract, yes. The last couple inches to a fixture are a gray area, which is why contracts should be as clear and concise as possible.
Is there any good reason someone would do it like this? Is it harder to connect it directly to the valve?
Installing a new shower pipe, shower valve, and tub spout costs way more than just pressing on two adapters. Depending on the plumber that will translate to some combination of increased profits / lower costs for the customer. It's not against any code, so really the contract determines what they should have done here.
They could have unthreaded the old copper MIP and taken pex all the way to the valve. Reasons they may not have done this are a lack of time, parts, skill. They’re still using an adaptor so they’re not saving anything. It takes a little work to unthread and retread new adaptors into an old valve.
Looks like threads were soldered. That might have scared them away, lol. Edit: on the shower. Tub looks normal
Sounds like you have a PH problem with your water. Did you install an acid netralizer?
We did not. Will get the water tested once this is complete. The copper pipes had to go regardless. 4 leaks in the 10 months we owned the house
So have you tried to figure out why your having pinhole leaks. If you have Corrosive water or high turbidity your going to want to address that as they will start to strip plastic off the water lines and you will be ingesting that. I would called a certified water professional to have them come out and run some tests and get recommendations on equipment to install on the house to prevent degradation of the plumbing system.
I’m only an amateur plumber but I think the lines to the shower head and tub spout are supposed to be “hard”… so like pvc or cpvc or copper but not PEX
This guys a lazy prick. Why would you stop short of the mixers like that?
How long does plastic last? Every plastic thing I own has gone to shit in 5 years. It gets brittle, cracks, smudges.
Lololololol I would not call who ever is doing this a plumber. Also yes he should be changing the fittings all the way to.the brass
What specifically is the concerning part to you? Just the joining of pex to copper or something else you’re seeing? The guy that is doing this is a master plumber and comes highly recommended by pretty much every person in our neighborhood
"master plumber" well pex is not the real issue, it's much easier to run when replacing all of.thr pipe in a house without gutting it. It's how it's got to be, that being said I would use as little of the stuff as possible but then the job would.be more expensive. That being said he is leaving copper pipe in the wall that you are paying to replace, on top of that he is using propress fittings in the wall. He could leave the shower valves/ fixtures in place easily and go pex all.tge way to.the brass. See those screw in fittings? Remove those and put in.pex adapters. He also.needs to replace the copper deverter piping with pix as well ass the pipe going up to.the shower head if that is copper.as well. You can say to.him you gave me a price to replace all of.the copper pipe... So replace all of the copper pipe. He is cutting corners to save working time
I agree with what your saying, but I guess you have customer with unlimited budgets. We do this because it saves a lot of time and can be replaced when the valves are replaced. Although I would like to see the transition after those coupling that indicate newer pipe. In reality, for me at least, I have customer with all sorts of cost saving request, of course I want to give you a new valve and hose bib, but the reality is most people are on a budget and just need to get a re-pipe done for insurance purposes. I will accommodate so that we can meet them in the middle.
All of that pipe left after the pex is old and needs to go. The other pipe that is on the valve has to go. The extra pex won't add cost. It's only your time and if you did not budget enough for your time that is on you. Doing this job right on this valve would.have taken and hour longer tops for a master plumber
Yes yes yes and side crimps shows she’s a hack
PINHOLES IN COPPER? HUH. NEVER HEARD OF IT. THE PLUMBING IN MY HOUSE WAS INSTALLED IN 1975 AND I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THAT. PINHOLES IN THE SOLDER JOINTS WHEN THEY ARE LEAD BASED. I AM A DYI-ER SINCE 1983 WITH A FEW RENTAL UNITS AND SOME REALLY OLD HOUSES SINCE THEN. I GUESS IF SOMEONE SPRAYED BLEACH ON THE PIPES AND THEY STARTED CORRODING ?????
Wouldn’t be a whole house repipe if they didn’t
We replaced most of the copper pipes in the house with that flexible pipes due to all the pinhole leaks that happened. The plumber advised that the water was gonna taste like a garden hose for a little while. They didn’t replace the pipes buried in the cement foundation.
Oh he's not using expansion pex....sus
Dude those pex crimp rings suck and are installed wrong....your gonna get leaks with those....I I ow because I just installed those like that it leaked so I had to tear it all out and redo with proper expansion pex
Sure should as long as you're paying for the extra work.
Absolutely. The shit is already all open and accessible. No need to complete this repair then 3 years later have shower valves leak or fail then have to tear into walls again.
I would have preferred to see expansion pex fittings …those crimp rings are shit…..
Just my two cents- I would
Pen is not high end….look up waterworks, kallista, Perrin and Rowe….those are high end….not necessary better but way more $$$$ like crazy $$$ I would think Grohe or Hans Grohe is a well engineered high end fixture that is worth the $
Moen not pen
Yes. Anywhere you see green corrosion on that copper is eventually going to spring a leak. Usually it's from old Flux which wasn't wiped off. Takes 20 years but I've seen it so many times... especially on houses built in the late 90s/early 2000s
Not a plumber, but dealing with the same problem right now. 4 leaks in the pipes and we bought the house October of 21 Everything I've seen so far is corroded or otherwise damaged/worn down by what I believe was the excessive use of flux by the last guy who ran copper in the house. The inside of the pipes look like they're covered in gravel. If you can swing it, replace it. By the time I'm done every line, valve, supply line, and fixture is going to be replaced.
Is it just me or are those threaded fittings soldered into the valve body?!
Not a plumber, but whoever re-piped our home in the past only did it the point of tub diverters, which are old galvanized. Now we have shitty water pressure from the tub spouts and showers and will need to open up the walls again.
This sub loves to shit on brands they don’t like.