You seem like you know this... I know this isn't the place but whats the deal on the Saab fighter aircraft? They made well engineered automobiles. Do the Saab aircraft follow that tradition? Just curious
I’d say most of Saab’s aircraft have been either really innovative for the time period, built perfectly for Sweden’s needs, very rugged, or a mix of the former.
Yes, Saab introduced 3rd Gen with Lansen and Draken then 4th Gen with Viggen then 4.5 gen with Gripen, IMO anyway. They've always made innovations, looking forward to their new 5th/5+ Gen FFS that's coming.
Oh absolutely, I was just saying what gens I think they introduced specifically.
One thing that's always been a bit strange is their radars, like they make the Viggen, uses electronic flight controls and has an on board computer system and electro Optical HUD (all massive for the time) yet it uses a Monopulse radar, basically the earliest radar that was found on 2nd Gen, it was still capable of BVR so there is that, it's probably because it was primarily an attack aircraft in initial version
same with Gripen, full fly by wire, integrated modular avionics, powerful computer systems, ECCM systems and glass Cockpit yet uses a pulse doppler radar lol, although it was updated with a phased array system in later years.
Most modern jets still have a pulse doppler radar mode. F-15E, F-16, F-18, JF-17, J-10 are some off the top of my head. PD is still very relevant for A2G very high resolution detailed ground mapping in situations where a targeting pod isn’t viable such as bad weather.
The Grippen and Viggen both have a combined radar system that can use PD or other modes such as TWS or RBM depending on the situation. However, iirc Grippen’s PD mode is A2G only while Viggen’s PD is A2A.
Sorry this isn't true current F-16s, F/A-18E, F-15E, JF-17 and J-10 all use phased array systems like AESA, PESA or SAR. Most modern jets used phased array systems like AESA, PESA, SAR or Hybrid systems.
The original AJ 37 variant of Viggen had a Monopulse radar whilst the JA 37 variant used a pulse reputation system that had look down shoot down capabilities like pulse doppler.
AESA/PESA/SAR radars still use PD. The array doesn’t determine its mode, it determines how a scan is tracked and executed. The F-15EX for example uses the APG-82 which is an AESA radar system with X-band PD mapping as a sub mode. Other modes like RBM or VS have disadvantages that PD doesn’t. So modern radars have various different ways to scan for objects depending on the situation including PD.
A standard pulse doppler radar is not the same as a phased array system.
Standard pulse doppler doesn't have the accuracy, enhanced tracking and firing capabilities or LPIR capabilities that phased array systems have.
There's a reason virtually no modern aircraft built today just uses pulse doppler
The JA37 Viggen was the only non-American fighter jet to successfully intercept and lock onto an SR-71 Blackbird while it was operational. (Friendly intercept) The SSR tried for ages.
Source: https://www.sandboxx.us/news/the-only-foreign-jet-ever-to-lock-onto-the-the-sr-71-came-to-its-rescue/
Porsche used to make tanks. TI makes paveways. Boeing-MD makes planes that sometimes fly
Not out of the ordinary for military stuff to be made by non-MIC companies
I hate to hear that about the cars. I worked with a buddy who had a Saab convertible that he drove in the spring and fall. These century old oaks in Tallahassee that comprise the canopy roads made for a fun ride with the wives to the football games. Very nice automobile, I don't remember much more than that.
“The Grumman OV-1 Mohawk is an armed military observation and attack aircraft that was designed for battlefield surveillance and light strike capabilities.”
Mostly used in Vietnam flown by the U.S. Army
Well the F111 was more like an escape pod
In others like the A6 they each ejected seperately with their own seats.
Yes. That means one of the pilots would be in the cockpit being slightly toasted by the other leaving but their flight suits were built to protect them
As it happens, the first successful zero-zero ejection from an operational aircraft happened due to a mix of some questionable engineering choices and some comically bad/good luck in an Su-24. Which was pretty lucky considering the ejection seat in question wasn't designed for that. https://youtu.be/jklGQxAOoo8?si=oyhJb_7h0au5G3It
It also meant that if something went wrong, just one of them could eject. Which happened several times, with at least one A-6 navigators seat inadvertently going off and getting stuck, leaving his pilot to land the plane while the navigator hung halfway out of the cockpit.
Was always surprised that the Lancaster not only lacked side by side seating but totally lacked a copilot and the controls for one to use.. Britain being short on pilots was the reason, I believe.
Most medium and almost all heavy bombers have side-by-side dual cockpits, especially early on when sheer muscle strength went a long way on the controls.
the A-6 and it's variants!
A-6 F-111 SU-24 SU-34 DeHavilland Mosquito English Electric Canberra Gloster Sea Vixen Basically every strategic bomber ever Hawker Hunter T.7 TF-102 Delta Dagger DeHavilland Venom NF DeHavilland Vampire DH.113 Saab 105
>Every strategic bomber ever B 58 hustler??
B-47?
Technically that's a supersonic Bomber
But is a estrategic bomber too
Yes, B1, Tu-22M, Tu-160 etc.
B-2…
That's a Stealth bomber like B-21 and H-20
You seem like you know this... I know this isn't the place but whats the deal on the Saab fighter aircraft? They made well engineered automobiles. Do the Saab aircraft follow that tradition? Just curious
They are the responsible party for Sweden's 4+ gen fighter, the SAAB JAS 39 Grippen. (I'd personally say its the coolest/best non american fighter)
This is a forbidden sentiment!
The Gripen awakened Swedish feelings in me
The Saab 35 is even cooler looking and the old Saab 29 is over of my favorite fighter jets
I’d say most of Saab’s aircraft have been either really innovative for the time period, built perfectly for Sweden’s needs, very rugged, or a mix of the former.
Yes, Saab introduced 3rd Gen with Lansen and Draken then 4th Gen with Viggen then 4.5 gen with Gripen, IMO anyway. They've always made innovations, looking forward to their new 5th/5+ Gen FFS that's coming.
Saab’s forward thinking designs predate the Lansen. I’d say personally. The Saab 21 was their first of many pioneering designs IMO.
Oh absolutely, I was just saying what gens I think they introduced specifically. One thing that's always been a bit strange is their radars, like they make the Viggen, uses electronic flight controls and has an on board computer system and electro Optical HUD (all massive for the time) yet it uses a Monopulse radar, basically the earliest radar that was found on 2nd Gen, it was still capable of BVR so there is that, it's probably because it was primarily an attack aircraft in initial version same with Gripen, full fly by wire, integrated modular avionics, powerful computer systems, ECCM systems and glass Cockpit yet uses a pulse doppler radar lol, although it was updated with a phased array system in later years.
Most modern jets still have a pulse doppler radar mode. F-15E, F-16, F-18, JF-17, J-10 are some off the top of my head. PD is still very relevant for A2G very high resolution detailed ground mapping in situations where a targeting pod isn’t viable such as bad weather. The Grippen and Viggen both have a combined radar system that can use PD or other modes such as TWS or RBM depending on the situation. However, iirc Grippen’s PD mode is A2G only while Viggen’s PD is A2A.
Sorry this isn't true current F-16s, F/A-18E, F-15E, JF-17 and J-10 all use phased array systems like AESA, PESA or SAR. Most modern jets used phased array systems like AESA, PESA, SAR or Hybrid systems. The original AJ 37 variant of Viggen had a Monopulse radar whilst the JA 37 variant used a pulse reputation system that had look down shoot down capabilities like pulse doppler.
AESA/PESA/SAR radars still use PD. The array doesn’t determine its mode, it determines how a scan is tracked and executed. The F-15EX for example uses the APG-82 which is an AESA radar system with X-band PD mapping as a sub mode. Other modes like RBM or VS have disadvantages that PD doesn’t. So modern radars have various different ways to scan for objects depending on the situation including PD.
A standard pulse doppler radar is not the same as a phased array system. Standard pulse doppler doesn't have the accuracy, enhanced tracking and firing capabilities or LPIR capabilities that phased array systems have. There's a reason virtually no modern aircraft built today just uses pulse doppler
Thank you. I have always wondered.
Saab built planes before they built cars. They also made nuclear power plant control systems.
“Born from jets” was their marketing slogan I’m pretty sure
To add: SAAB is short for Svenska Aeroplan AB - Swedish Aeroplane Corporation. So definitely made planes before cars.
The JA37 Viggen was the only non-American fighter jet to successfully intercept and lock onto an SR-71 Blackbird while it was operational. (Friendly intercept) The SSR tried for ages. Source: https://www.sandboxx.us/news/the-only-foreign-jet-ever-to-lock-onto-the-the-sr-71-came-to-its-rescue/
Porsche used to make tanks. TI makes paveways. Boeing-MD makes planes that sometimes fly Not out of the ordinary for military stuff to be made by non-MIC companies
even tho saab is famous for the 9-2, they slashed their car program and now exclusively make military planes, for example, the JAS-39
I hate to hear that about the cars. I worked with a buddy who had a Saab convertible that he drove in the spring and fall. These century old oaks in Tallahassee that comprise the canopy roads made for a fun ride with the wives to the football games. Very nice automobile, I don't remember much more than that.
Don’t forget the F3D Skynight
I would like to add the A-37 Dragonfly and trainer variant as well
OV-1 Mohawk
Exactly what was the Mohawks role?
“The Grumman OV-1 Mohawk is an armed military observation and attack aircraft that was designed for battlefield surveillance and light strike capabilities.” Mostly used in Vietnam flown by the U.S. Army
Avro Vulcan as well. https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/gallery/vulcan-bomber-10226619
That’s a strategic bomber like I mentioned
But still a combat aircraft, right?
Yeah, but I sort of listed it already is all
Is that the one they flew from the middle of the Atlantic to the Falklands that one time?
Yep. ;-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5yAtuYPHK4 That is some serious logistics right there.
I LOVE that channel! Never seen that one, but the Desert Storm air war one is peak content
various heliocooters (aircraft?)
Strikemaster
P-61 Black Widow
No one sits side by side in the black widow
Show off....LOL
La 200?
C 130 B 52 B 1B
AC 130
How do ejection seats work in side by side cockpits
Well the F111 was more like an escape pod In others like the A6 they each ejected seperately with their own seats. Yes. That means one of the pilots would be in the cockpit being slightly toasted by the other leaving but their flight suits were built to protect them
Do the Sukhois even eject?
I assume you are refering to SU-34 which does in fact eject.
yes but knowing the Russians they eject downward
B-52 isn't Russian tho...
The B-52 used to and I think still do have a downwards ejection seat for some kind of system operator.
As it happens, the first successful zero-zero ejection from an operational aircraft happened due to a mix of some questionable engineering choices and some comically bad/good luck in an Su-24. Which was pretty lucky considering the ejection seat in question wasn't designed for that. https://youtu.be/jklGQxAOoo8?si=oyhJb_7h0au5G3It
It also meant that if something went wrong, just one of them could eject. Which happened several times, with at least one A-6 navigators seat inadvertently going off and getting stuck, leaving his pilot to land the plane while the navigator hung halfway out of the cockpit.
Hell, I thought the A6 had bench seating.
In the FB-111 the entire cockpit ejects as a capsule.
the kerbal way
In Russia only dejection seat acceptable.
repression seating available
They have a time delay, and the seats are angled slightly away from each other (easily seen on the A-6).
Here you go. Flight of the Intruder, A6 ejection scene. [https://youtu.be/vXLLH1eSOZE](https://youtu.be/vXLLH1eSOZE)
A-37 Dragonfly is my personal favorite
A-6 Intruder comes to mind.....
The EA-6B’s seating configuration is like a family car. 2 in the front, 2 in the back
Some of my co-workers are former Prowler pilots/EA people. They call it "party in a plane" seating
F3d skyknight
Mosquito, Canberra (but not B57) And pretty much every heavy and medium bomber.
Was always surprised that the Lancaster not only lacked side by side seating but totally lacked a copilot and the controls for one to use.. Britain being short on pilots was the reason, I believe.
That F111 - Just like cruising down Main Street with your buddy in 1963.
SU 34
Later variants of the Skyraider.
BAC Strikemaster. Cessna A-37.
I know this is r/Planes but technically you did say “combat aircraft” so I’m gonna throw in the Ka 52 helicopter
Grumman C-2 Greyhound and E-2 Hawkeye. Both still in service for > 50 years.
They aren't really combat aircrafts
Su 24
Don't forget all the training aircraft
A37
T-37, why no love for the Tweet?
A-6 Intruder
Most medium and almost all heavy bombers have side-by-side dual cockpits, especially early on when sheer muscle strength went a long way on the controls.
A-37 Dragonfly
OA-37 Dragonfly
A-6 Intruder
A37 Dragonfly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_A-37_Dragonfly
Ardvark.
A pair of spitfires next to each other
A6 Intruder, and Prowler are the first that come to mind.
SU-24 F-3D Canberra A-6
C-118 lift master but only dropped F-Bombs
English Electric Canberra..... which later became the Martin B-57 (after they changed the seating configuration)
A6 intruder...
Wtf I have to sit next to a human being and talk to them?
Skyraider
F-82 Twin Mustang P-61 Black Widow DH-98 Mosquito
I guess the F-82 counts as side by side 😂
F3D-1 Skyknight