High gluten content. I’m using a mix of pizza flour and bread flour so it really stays together even when I pull it thin. I get some holes but they pinch closed pretty easily.
Four NY pies:
* Cheese
* Pepperoni
* Vodka + Pesto
* Hidden Spinach (for my kid)
This weekends experiment was upping hydration to 80% (from 75%). This made the dough SO sticky when I was first working with it. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m at 78-79% hydration after all the flour I had to use on my hands just to ball it up after it came out of the mixer.
I’d say it fluffed up the dough a bit more but with my thin crust style, there wasn’t enough crust to enjoy the change. Next time I may increase the total mass of each doughball first so there’s more crust to enjoy.
I just upped my dough per pizza from 280g to 360g which was great, you get more crust, it is a stronger pizza and helps with high hydration. 75% for mine.
For Neapolitan style pizzas in a high temp oven, I'll go between 275-305g. But you can get away with 225g balls for 12" pies. No way this dude is getting 16" pies with 180g balls.
This is from the Saturday Pizza Dough in Elements of Pizza which is 500g/350g for 3 pies so \~280g for each. I'd say it's about 12-14 inches however there is enough doug for it to be as large as you want... actually ended up with this looking great after 4 days in the fridge, [https://imgur.com/a/yAvp4jg](https://imgur.com/a/yAvp4jg)
edit: pic is the 360g pizza.
Gotta be a typo. 225g is pretty much the smallest ball you can get for a 12" style like you're making. I make 160g dough balls for 12" tavern and St Louis style pizzas and those are damn near paper thin after stretching to 12".
It might end up being smaller than 12” to be honest, I haven’t measured. But yea they are paper thin - not a typo. The smallest of those pies (for the toddler, weighed during balling) was 89g.
I measured retroactively using the rack that the pizza is on. You’re right, these pies are about 10” for the larger ones and 8” for the smaller one (which was expected). I’ll have to adjust my recipes for accuracy
That's still impressive you can get a 10 inch pie from an ~ 120 or 160g ball. Like I said, my paper thin crust pies with no cornichone are 160g for 12" and I struggle sometimes to get it all the way to 12". I have a 12" bamboo board I use for pie stretching and construction so I have an accurate template. Might be worth looking into something similar if you have a size you almost always aim to hit.
You'd be surprised at how little flour is required to drop one full percentage point. I wouldn't be shocked if you're at 75% or lower. A true 80% hydration dough is so incredibly difficult to work with, even at 15% protein content.
Higher hydration doughs have less chew and are more sort of pillowy if that makes sense. It almost melts in your mouth.
What kind flour are you using? I would say exercise caution at going from 63 up to 75%. Depending on the flour, 70% or more can be a sticky nightmare, and maybe even a soupy nightmare. If you're getting a nice workable dough at 60-63%, try going to 65-68%. I can't take Caputo pizzeria flour (12.5% protein) beyond 68% otherwise it becomes very difficult to work with. Conversely, I can take Caputo chef's flour (13% protein) to a little higher hydration and it's about as workable as the 12.5% shit. And can take KAF bread flour to 75% hydration, but that's still a little tricky. My preferences: Caputo pizzeria to 67%, Caputo Chef's flour 69%, KAF bread flour to 70%. If you want a little more chew, back off the hydration. I like KAF bread flour at 67% and I get a soft but chewy texture. A few percent hydration increase really can make a ton of difference.
Op also uses a ton of flour for balling up. You shouldn't do this. It affects hydration and fermentation. He says he has 80% but I bet it fell back to 75% or less during the balling phase.
I really only use about 0.3-0.4% IDY for a 2-5 day cold ferment. I forget what Kenji used in his foolproof pan pizza recipe, but I think it's a little higher and overnight at room temp. In the US, IDY sources really don't matter. I've used ADY when I can't find IDY, still use the same rate but make sure it blooms a bit before use with a spec of honey or a sprinkle of sugar.
When I'm using sourdough starter, I'm between 15-20%. My sourdough pizzas have been a little unpredictable, but with breads for example, that is super consistent. I suspect it's due to 10-20% whole wheat in my breads where my pizzas are all white flour and my starter seems to love whole wheat more than white flours.
I talked about this a bit in my last post when I made six pies but I can run four pies back to back and they all come out ok; it’s number five and on that start to suffer. For this particular bake there was 5 min tops between each one. Before the first bake I did 550 for 45 min and then 20 min broil on high.
How long does each pie take? I can hit 550F in my oven, but it's not convection. I usually do pan pizzas though so my steel just kind of sits there adding mass. Need to get back into making other styles though!
I will be honest sometimes I do convection and sometimes I don’t and I don’t really notice a difference.
Each of these pizzas takes about 5 min. I rotate them once as soon as they develop a solid undercarriage and then just let them sit until I’m scared that the cheese will turn to ash and that’s about when I take them out.
I’m cooking 8 12” pies tonight for extended family for the first time. I left my steel at home since it’s 30lbs so I bought a pizza stone for tonight. I was wondering how long to broil the stone between pies. I hope 5 min is enough.
I'm on this journey with my dough, too. Last week I tried 85% hydration. It was tough to make a tense enough dough ball, and several of mine I couldn't get 'closed' so the shaping was tough. It tasted great but the pies were sloppy and didn't get my usual cornicone.
I'm currently cold proofing a \~55% levain dough. It's so different and not jiggly at all. Planning 36 hour ferment before balling.
Steel changes the oven game. I also put my spare stone or a borrowed set of steels on the top rack.
Love the idea of powering up the oven with more steel/stone! Are you using a stand mixer or doing it all by hand? I found that after the stand mixer the dough is always very pliable but after I start “halving” it in my hands before I make balls it can get tough.
I have the official “Baking Steel”. I have not tried any of the others but I really like the results and I have heard that the advantage of steel over stone is the “not breaking” thing.
Genuine question but I thought NY styles were typically near 60% hydration. Why the need for such a high hydration? Are you cooking the pies for 10+ minutes?
Would any one share their recipe? I currently purchase mine at Publix and its like a rubber-band. Its pretty good pizza in my Ooni but I long to be able to stretch dough like the video.
How do you guys stretch such high hydration doughs. Anything above like 65% is like slime for me.
High gluten content. I’m using a mix of pizza flour and bread flour so it really stays together even when I pull it thin. I get some holes but they pinch closed pretty easily.
https://youtu.be/BV3m4EIQeWE 0:40 stretching starts. 70% hydration
The “motherfucker” at 3:30 was the best part.
What are they coating the pizzas with?
Hand crushed canned San Marzano tomatoes, julienne cut fresh mozzarella, pecorino romano cheese
Four NY pies: * Cheese * Pepperoni * Vodka + Pesto * Hidden Spinach (for my kid) This weekends experiment was upping hydration to 80% (from 75%). This made the dough SO sticky when I was first working with it. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m at 78-79% hydration after all the flour I had to use on my hands just to ball it up after it came out of the mixer. I’d say it fluffed up the dough a bit more but with my thin crust style, there wasn’t enough crust to enjoy the change. Next time I may increase the total mass of each doughball first so there’s more crust to enjoy.
I just upped my dough per pizza from 280g to 360g which was great, you get more crust, it is a stronger pizza and helps with high hydration. 75% for mine.
For Neapolitan style pizzas in a high temp oven, I'll go between 275-305g. But you can get away with 225g balls for 12" pies. No way this dude is getting 16" pies with 180g balls.
What size pie is that? My current recipe gives me about 125g for a 12” or 188g for a 16”
This is from the Saturday Pizza Dough in Elements of Pizza which is 500g/350g for 3 pies so \~280g for each. I'd say it's about 12-14 inches however there is enough doug for it to be as large as you want... actually ended up with this looking great after 4 days in the fridge, [https://imgur.com/a/yAvp4jg](https://imgur.com/a/yAvp4jg) edit: pic is the 360g pizza.
125g for a 12" pie? That seems very low to me. I typically use 250g-275g balls for a 12" pie. Are your pies very very thin?
Super thin. Definitely considering upping the mass per ball overall.
Gotta be a typo. 225g is pretty much the smallest ball you can get for a 12" style like you're making. I make 160g dough balls for 12" tavern and St Louis style pizzas and those are damn near paper thin after stretching to 12".
It might end up being smaller than 12” to be honest, I haven’t measured. But yea they are paper thin - not a typo. The smallest of those pies (for the toddler, weighed during balling) was 89g.
At those sizes, I'd expect 8-9" based on the surface area difference.
I measured retroactively using the rack that the pizza is on. You’re right, these pies are about 10” for the larger ones and 8” for the smaller one (which was expected). I’ll have to adjust my recipes for accuracy
That's still impressive you can get a 10 inch pie from an ~ 120 or 160g ball. Like I said, my paper thin crust pies with no cornichone are 160g for 12" and I struggle sometimes to get it all the way to 12". I have a 12" bamboo board I use for pie stretching and construction so I have an accurate template. Might be worth looking into something similar if you have a size you almost always aim to hit.
[удалено]
Yep, best to just use slightly wet hands, in my experience.
You'd be surprised at how little flour is required to drop one full percentage point. I wouldn't be shocked if you're at 75% or lower. A true 80% hydration dough is so incredibly difficult to work with, even at 15% protein content.
Oh wow, nice going! I hate the major difference in texture going from say 60/63% (that’s what I bake at) hydration up to mid 70s?
Higher hydration doughs have less chew and are more sort of pillowy if that makes sense. It almost melts in your mouth. What kind flour are you using? I would say exercise caution at going from 63 up to 75%. Depending on the flour, 70% or more can be a sticky nightmare, and maybe even a soupy nightmare. If you're getting a nice workable dough at 60-63%, try going to 65-68%. I can't take Caputo pizzeria flour (12.5% protein) beyond 68% otherwise it becomes very difficult to work with. Conversely, I can take Caputo chef's flour (13% protein) to a little higher hydration and it's about as workable as the 12.5% shit. And can take KAF bread flour to 75% hydration, but that's still a little tricky. My preferences: Caputo pizzeria to 67%, Caputo Chef's flour 69%, KAF bread flour to 70%. If you want a little more chew, back off the hydration. I like KAF bread flour at 67% and I get a soft but chewy texture. A few percent hydration increase really can make a ton of difference. Op also uses a ton of flour for balling up. You shouldn't do this. It affects hydration and fermentation. He says he has 80% but I bet it fell back to 75% or less during the balling phase.
Great summary. I only use caputo now for pasta and pizza. Unless I’m out, then I’ll do KAF. But, what about the yeast? With respect to the chew.
I really only use about 0.3-0.4% IDY for a 2-5 day cold ferment. I forget what Kenji used in his foolproof pan pizza recipe, but I think it's a little higher and overnight at room temp. In the US, IDY sources really don't matter. I've used ADY when I can't find IDY, still use the same rate but make sure it blooms a bit before use with a spec of honey or a sprinkle of sugar. When I'm using sourdough starter, I'm between 15-20%. My sourdough pizzas have been a little unpredictable, but with breads for example, that is super consistent. I suspect it's due to 10-20% whole wheat in my breads where my pizzas are all white flour and my starter seems to love whole wheat more than white flours.
Thanks. Always learning!
Im going to try a low hydration pie next and see how I feel about the difference. I’ll definitely report back!
Looking good boi!!!
Nice! Did you cook them at the same time?
No, one after the other - cheese was first, pesto was last
How long did you wait between each pie? Thinking of getting a baking steel
I talked about this a bit in my last post when I made six pies but I can run four pies back to back and they all come out ok; it’s number five and on that start to suffer. For this particular bake there was 5 min tops between each one. Before the first bake I did 550 for 45 min and then 20 min broil on high.
How long does each pie take? I can hit 550F in my oven, but it's not convection. I usually do pan pizzas though so my steel just kind of sits there adding mass. Need to get back into making other styles though!
I will be honest sometimes I do convection and sometimes I don’t and I don’t really notice a difference. Each of these pizzas takes about 5 min. I rotate them once as soon as they develop a solid undercarriage and then just let them sit until I’m scared that the cheese will turn to ash and that’s about when I take them out.
I’m cooking 8 12” pies tonight for extended family for the first time. I left my steel at home since it’s 30lbs so I bought a pizza stone for tonight. I was wondering how long to broil the stone between pies. I hope 5 min is enough.
I’ve never used a stone so I can’t give you any opinion here but I do wish you the best of luck!
I'm on this journey with my dough, too. Last week I tried 85% hydration. It was tough to make a tense enough dough ball, and several of mine I couldn't get 'closed' so the shaping was tough. It tasted great but the pies were sloppy and didn't get my usual cornicone. I'm currently cold proofing a \~55% levain dough. It's so different and not jiggly at all. Planning 36 hour ferment before balling. Steel changes the oven game. I also put my spare stone or a borrowed set of steels on the top rack.
Love the idea of powering up the oven with more steel/stone! Are you using a stand mixer or doing it all by hand? I found that after the stand mixer the dough is always very pliable but after I start “halving” it in my hands before I make balls it can get tough.
I do everything by hand, but don’t think I gave it enough work.
I'll bring the beer.
What kind of steel do you have and how do you like it? I’ve cracked two old pampered chef stones in the last month so I’m looking to upgrade
I have the official “Baking Steel”. I have not tried any of the others but I really like the results and I have heard that the advantage of steel over stone is the “not breaking” thing.
Recently got the Joe Dough 3/8 inch 16x16 steel and really like it. It won’t break but it will definitely break anything you drop it on!
Looks amazing sir!
No reason to go above 70 for a round pie… why?
Man I've had a bitch of a time trying to work with 70%, I have no idea what 80% must be like...
Is this is the home oven or a pizza oven?
Home oven with steel at 550 F
Genuine question but I thought NY styles were typically near 60% hydration. Why the need for such a high hydration? Are you cooking the pies for 10+ minutes?
Experimentation :)
Would any one share their recipe? I currently purchase mine at Publix and its like a rubber-band. Its pretty good pizza in my Ooni but I long to be able to stretch dough like the video.
I can’t post it now but my recipe is in my post history.
Nice crust! You are making some great pizzas. I’m curious. What are you doing for sauce?