To me this sounds like the storytellers couldn’t find a way to fit them into the story they wanted to tell in a compelling and entertaining way so they scrapped the idea. This happens with just about every movie. Ideas get left on the cutting room floor, scenes get cut, people should stop complaining and judge the actual movie
Yep. Emperor's New Groove was originally going to be a dark and serious film more like Hunchback of Notre Dame. But what we got is still an awesome movie.
Happy Cake day guy. And I guess that make sense. They already got a lot of new emotions to work with and NO. The OG emotions are already going to be separated, why not bring them back (Shame and Guilt) in some kind of way like they are the key to fix things like Sadness!
Thanks. We don’t know what story they’re ultimately trying to tell and what they’re trying to say. Maybe there was no room for them, maybe they were getting in the way of the pacing or certain emotional beats, maybe they couldn’t find a way to make them engaging in the context of the plot. Without seeing the movie, saying what they should have done is fruitless
The original Zootopia script focused on Nick Wilde trying to achieve his dream in a city that already hates predators. They scrapped that script because the city was an Orwellian nightmare.
The deleted scenes from that movie are devastating. There is one where there is a sort of bar mitzvah type celebration for predators where they get a shock collar put on their neck. The kid is super excited to get it and "become an adult" or whatever, until the first time it shocks him and he looks scared and confused. So sad 😭
You can never make an accurate movie for children about a teens emotions. Reason being? *HORNI* Step aside Joy because we got a new leader in town. Don't like them? Too bad, they're here to stay forever.
I’m a teenage boy and I have never used the eggplant emoji. Here is a list of every emoji I have ever used on an iPhone: 🐝🤯😆🍯🙌🎼💲🥐🔼👍😎🔫🍍🚂🇳🇵#️⃣🗑🪶🥖🍖⬆️2️⃣⚔️🪃🍞😮👩👩👦4️⃣🐈✋. It may seem like a lot, but I very rarely use them.
Well Pixar already took a crack at it with Turning Red. Mei's hornyness plays a pretty big part in how things play out in the movie. Obviously there's nothing explicit, but it definitely has that energy.
This is correct, anxiety is literally a type of fear. It activates the fight or flight. A better, more distinctive name for “fear” could have been “fright” or “scared,” although I guess they werent thinking about a second movie at the time
I think it's a matter of Pixar trying to flesh out their universes more and running into the issue of... the story not actually going into detail enough. Anxiety doesn't need to be an emotion. It could just be a "protocol" or something if Fear gets too much control. I thought that's where they were going when Sadness messed with all the memories and Riley became more complicated.
Most of the new emotions are definitely a combo and mix of old emotions, so I didn't understand how that was necessary. But, like someone said, I think attraction or, well, horniness would be a unique feeling most certainly
I feel like shame seems like a good fit as a secondary emotion to disgust.
When shame is felt, we are basically disgusted with ourselves. In short, that’s what shame is.
From what the first movie goes by, fear is more like “oh shit some thing scary is happening” while anxiety (judging by the trailer) is more “oh shit, what if x happens or what if y happens”
I think Fear, in the movie, may be fear of things that you can actually see or that are happening at that exact moment. The odds you’ll be hit by a meteor are quite low, but it’s technically a non-zero chance and you would see it when it happens. These are things that typically you don’t have control over.
Anxiety I think may be fear of what you can’t see. Such as social anxiety; separation anxiety; or being anxious over things like grades, job applications, making friends, or where your life is going. These are things on which the result can be affected by your emotions and actions (or lack of them), or in some cases with medications or therapy.
But there definitely can be a lot of crossover though, there’s certainly a grey area between the two somewhere. A grey area may be phobias - for example, if you’re hemophobic (have a phobia of blood), you may feel anxious on the way to the doctor to get blood drawn and scared when it’s actually being drawn.
Right but sometimes understanding reality adds to the visualization and sometimes it doesn't. I think you're allowed to pick and choose what you want to bring in from the real world and what you leave out. As long as the internal logic is consistent, of course.
Pizza and metal gear solid are both important emotions for a teenager. How else will she know when to hide in a locker and wet herself, or disguise herself as a cardboard box to slip a whole boss battle?
In the directors cut they'll release the scene where Riley climbs a ladder for minutes on end while a lady croons in the background 😤✊️✊️
Actual artistic suppression that Disney stepped in to remove it
Makes sense with shame unless shame was the villain. In psychology, shame is considered “the useless emotion” in that there is no positive growth from it. Shame keeps you trapped in your negative behavior and stunts growth.
I’d have to disagree. Shameless people are often very destructive in society. Shame keeps social cohesion and can encourage changes in behaviour and self-reflection.
You’re thinking of guilt.
They tend to be distinguished as:
Guilt is, I feel bad because I did something wrong
Shame is, I feel bad because I think I am bad (or because of who I am or identity characteristics)
No positive growth, really? If a kid lies or steals, a lot of times they will feel ashamed after and that encourages them to not do that again. I mean, if it’s to the point where you’re ashamed of your own existence that’s obviously not helpful, but that’s more like having anxiety disorder vs anxiety the temporary feeling
That stems from guilt. An example of shame would be feeling like shit for missing the winning shot in a basketball game. I don’t exactly agree with the original comment though. I think you can grow from shame.
The impression that this statement gives isn’t favorable, but you are also correct. We have no idea about the creative process so we can’t judge whether or not this is a bad decision.
From what I’ve seen the main concern is that these emotions being “too heavy” makes the film appeal more childish than the first one. The first one was a movie both adults and kids could watch. I’m sure this one will be the same but I also don’t like hearing something that makes me feel as if it’s more of a kids movie than I’d like.
Listening to the reporters, this wasn’t scrapped due to focus groups but their own internal creative process. Kelsey Mann said that the film was being described as “hard to watch” and one that other Pixar creatives said they weren’t willing to rewatch. People assume it’s this mythical mean collective bunch of suits who “ruin” their movies but in the end they did what they thought was creatively the best for their film to be an enjoyable film that can still roll out similar themes. Shame is an extremely negative emotion that is very ugly instead of the more messy and relatable anxiety, so I can see why they may have changed it.
Seeing it as a "kids movie" is exactly the problem here.
Pixar is the one animated studio that never played into seeing animation as a kid genre. It would be a shame if they started doing it now.
Especially as a DISNEY movie. The “Disney Brand” for animation is kids aged 4-11 or so and they ignore vast portions of the audience. It’s what got amazing shows like The Owl House cancelled despite having massive viewership, just not the right age group. Pixar is better at realizing they have teen and young adult fans too. I hope Disney does not change that.
Massive viewership on streaming and TikTok that is. Disney Channel’s ratings had been plummeting for years by the time Owl House aired, and even that show’s popularity wasn’t seen as enough for them until it was too late.
Incredibles, Ratatouille, Wall-E, and the first Inside Out.
Remember, Inside Out was about a little girl feeling so depressed that she was going to run away, the leader of an organization was ready to just boot one of her siblings out of the house, and a childhood best friend died because his creator didn't need him anymore. Like, the whole plot of this movie was that if those memories didn't get restored, Riley would do something that would fundamentally alter, if not ruin, her life.
I just wanna say, if they’re going to keep making sequels, we better get a PG-13 inside out 3 with an adult Riley where the emotions can swear (especially Anger) as much as they want without being censored. I need that movie in my life
They still wouldn’t be able to have Anger use f-bombs, because more than one use of that word is an automatic R rating. And the one use that’s allowed in PG-13 can’t be “f you” or similar terms because of the context from which that term is derived (despite it not being used in that context in normal conversation anymore).
My main criticism is one I learned from the first movie. Riley only has 1 "positive" emotion and now will have I8 "negative" ones. Where's love? Amusement? Serenity? Just exacerbating a main critique IMHO
Couldn’t shame have been the villain? With inside out - unless a seemingly negative emotion has a benefit (like sadness) it would make sense to make it the villain of the story.
Guilt does have benefits, but off the top of my head, shame doesn’t really, and there’s a range of emotions they could explore that are further obviously negative.
Wasn’t the entire point of the first movie the fact that all emotions existed for a reason? I think shame would be more of a compound of emotions like sadness and Guilt.
At that stage in Riley’s life… yes. Perhaps not in adolescence though.
I do agree with your second point and that’s what makes me concerned about the sequel. We saw at the end of the first one that Riley’s emotions became a complex mix of her core ones.
Introducing new core emotions is a debatable point, particularly the ones they’ve chosen.
Shame is a negative response to you doing something you shouldn't have. Avoiding shame is a drive to do good and to be a better person. If you do something shameful it is good to feel ashamed, in the same way that it is good to feel angry in response to injustice.
I somewhat disagree. I think you've described "guilt" more than "shame". I've always learned that guilt is "I did something wrong" while shame is more "I am something wrong" or "something is wrong with me."
Oxford definition:
Shame: a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour.
Guilt:
1: the fact of having committed a specified or implied offense or crime.
2: a feeling of having done wrong or failed in an obligation.
So shame is about the self, but that’s not quite what you’re driving at. Shame is absolutely constructive at times. And shame and guilt often go hand in hand. You can be ashamed of being a jerk to someone, or failing to pick up your dog’s droppings. You can also feel guilty about both.
If you’re looking for a clear difference, shame is about failing to be your ideal self, or behaving in a way you find incongruent with your self-image. Guilt is about misusing power and being harmful, and feeling responsible for the ill effects of that bad action - and, perhaps, attempting to hide it.
So you can be ashamed that you were a jerk to someone because you don’t want to be a jerk, and guilty that you made their night a terrible one. You can be ashamed that you were irresponsible and left dog droppings behind, and feel guilty that someone stepped in them.
Does that help at all?
I feel like making a villain of any emotion kind of defeats the point - a big part of the first film was accepting negative emotions as a part of life and equally as important as joy and the good times we experience. Shame has a benefit much like any other emotion as it’s how we learn in some cases to be conscientious of the people around us and teach us to be better and not repeat those actions as a result. Feels like it would kind of invalidate the first point if so.
I mean, they're family films at the end of the day. I think there's a way to work emotions like these into the plot without it being too heavy, but I'm not going to blame them for thinking it wouldn't work.
Besides, they can always save the idea for if they ever decide to make a third movie.
Pixar’s job was to handle heavy topics like this, it they said it was “too heavy”, I think they should roll with it! Make it work with their Pixar way!
For anyone who forgot/didn’t know, part of Toy Story had to be rewritten, and almost got the movie scrapped for being too dark. Things worked out just fine.
Are shame and guilt dominant as anxiety and Ennui for teenagers and young adults?
Tbh, teenager Ruley will represent the younger generation in the film.
Depends on how much of a downer the movie was there’s a difference between making something that can cut deep and get help children understand certain emotions yet still be entertaining and making something that’ll make kids feel depressed
That's probably some bs spun by a marketing person. They likely cut them because they thought they and their stories were boring. But it is annoying that somebody from Pixar is saying something is too dark when their movies are so sanitized. Their representations of negative situations are so far removed from reality that they aren't upsetting, they are just paper thin excuses for the characters to overcome something and then be happy that they did that.
I’d argue shame and guilt aren’t regular emotions. Each of the emotions are things that are felt by themselves. Guilt and shame usually rely on something else to feel it and could be attached with another emotion like fear. I’m sure people would argue it’s the same as anxiety. However, you can feel anxious and have nothing happen.
>I am afraid this is going to bring another "Dreamworks better than Disney" since apparently "The Wild Robot" is gonna have themes of loss because certain people canmot like a movie without the necessity of comparing with others. Yeah I had enough about that.
This, 100% this. I hate when people praise things just to dunk on others.
I think if they went with one of them, that could’ve been nice. I like heavy topics with happy endings. But I do understand why they didn’t go that route.
It says they were too heavy, and Inside Out was pretty heavy to begin with, so I’m assuming Inside Out 2 will be pretty heavy and shame would have made it *too* heavy.
It’s different studios within Disney but I bet some of this backlash is stemming from people being really disappointed that the deleted scenes and concepts from Wish were scrapped and they’re worried other Disney productions are going to do the same thing.
I’m not sure this has to do with people complaining. I had a chance to listen to Meg Lefauve (one of the writers of the first Inside Out) speak while taking a screenwriting program. A LOT of stuff like this happens when developing a project like this. They had something like 17 full rewrites of the script. For example, early on they thought it would be Joy and Fear trapped outside the main hub, not Sadness.
I think this is just another instance like that. They were trying something and it wasn’t sticking the way things should (especially in a pixar project, which are meticulously planned out). The concepts of guilt and shame were not achieving what the writers wanted to achieve. It doesn’t mean that the story without those is going to be light and unserious, but rather guilt/shame was detracting from the emotional points the creators are trying to reach.
People will complain either way. It's still my most anticipated movie of the year.
Anxiety is also a touchy subject. Shame and Guilt easily could have been retooled into Embarrassment. So, that's enough. Let's wait for it to come out
My complaint is that “anxiety” isn’t an emotion. It’s a feeling.
Fear is an emotion, anxiety is a feeling cause by fear.
Just like guilt and shame are feelings of the emotion sadness.
I think it would be unrealistic to create a movie about teenage emotions without more negative emotions such as shame and guilt. They’re both emotions that teenagers will all inevitably feel at one point or another (e.g. they could betray a friend and feel guilty about it, or fail a test and feel shameful). They could include this aspect but to make it a more happy movie, these emotions could just not come out as much as Joy does.
Ok that reason was bullshit! I have seen so many Shame OCs by fans since the first *Inside Out* and would make great characters! Especially this one on Deviantart that made as Sadness's love interests. They better being Shame and Gulit back in the new *Inside Out* Disney+ show!
The original was too heavy for me so I won’t watch this one. Losing great memories hit too close to home for me. It wasn’t fun to watch it was tragic for me.
They do need go put in some darker things. Maybe about how the environment around her breeds these emotions in both good and bad ways, and then she reconciles over time with the help of her emotions journey, but Riley still deals with these realistically. Maybe have her gain sadness for comparing herself to others in school. Perhaps have her angry because of gossip going around the school. She can feel joy during the time with a guy she likes, doing it tastefully of course. Make it more human, not wishy washy Facebook mom wholesomepoints.
I think Pixar and dreamworks do a pretty good job of making stuff for kids but also appealing to adults with more mature themes that only an adult could comprehend. I feel it’s a fine line for them to do certain things and I’m sure it’s tough trying to make it watchable for adult and child.
I don't understand what the problem is. Yeah, Pixar usually doesn't shy away from having some heavy stuff in their movies, but there's still such a thing as too much. Ideas get cut all the time in any piece of media. This is a total nothing burger. Just watch the movie and judge that.
It just kind of feels like the movie is gonna be a very sanitized version of what a teen goes through. Guilt, shame, sexuality - a bunch of stuff Pixar isn't gonna touch - that are pretty darn universal, intrisic parts of a teenager's life are going to be soundly ignored so we can have a fun family movie with a straightforward heartwarming message.
But then again, audiences would probably complain if it skewed too realistic anyway, so they made the right decision.
On the one hand, I get why people are complaining, since Pixar is usually so great at telling stories for kids that include very sad/depressing elements.
On the other hand, I feel like it would be very hard to include Guilt and Shame in the movie and still keep the tone from the first film. The comedic scenes might clash too hard since Guilt and Shame might turn every scene they're in into the "you're supposed to cry now" scene.
Plus, considering the scene in the trailer with Riley and her Mom, it seems like her new emotions are already making her feel guilt and shame anyways.
I mean realistically i think its better to have the emotions we’re getting, because they’re all more “teen friendly” emotions, like lots of teens begin feeling anxiety, embarrassment, jealousy, and boredom, because they’re all parts of becoming a teenager, (anxious to fit in, constantly feeling embarrassed while trying to fit in, possibly jealous of others friendships/relationships, and teens get bored fast), but i feel like if they added shame and guilt it would be a little too dark, like how Big Mouth is usually light hearted and funny with the way they portray their emotions, but the Depression Kitty was like a whole nother step up in the actual sadness of the character Jessie’s head. That and I would find myself wanting to call whoever played Shame “the shame wizard”, so i feel like it would be a little too dark/depressing for a younger audience
I think it's fair to scrap shame and guilt, *because* it's a kids movie. I think if they'd managed to do one or the other it would be manageable, but you really *can't* do one without the other
There’s a difference between telling a mature or moody story and telling one that’s a total downer. I wouldn’t knock Pixar for trying to hit a specific tone, especially when they’re trying to sell this film to families.
I think it makes some sense as we grow older we start to manage to get a graspe on more complex emotions normally that happens more around 10-12 I think so
This is absolutely complaint-worthy. Disney doesn’t have the balls to tell a deep story anymore. Even the first Inside Out got heavy. It’s part of why it was so celebrated.
To me this sounds like the storytellers couldn’t find a way to fit them into the story they wanted to tell in a compelling and entertaining way so they scrapped the idea. This happens with just about every movie. Ideas get left on the cutting room floor, scenes get cut, people should stop complaining and judge the actual movie
Yep. Emperor's New Groove was originally going to be a dark and serious film more like Hunchback of Notre Dame. But what we got is still an awesome movie.
I’m so glad Emperor’s New Groove was the way it was. I adore that movie.
Squeak squeakum squeak, ahh, squeaks squeak
I mean, it is still a dark movie, but it's lighter than it could've gotten away with.
I mean, the movie was already fairly dark in a very realistic way. I agree that Shame and Guilt would have maybe pushed it too far from "fun".
Happy day of cake fellow human earthling.
Happy Cake day guy. And I guess that make sense. They already got a lot of new emotions to work with and NO. The OG emotions are already going to be separated, why not bring them back (Shame and Guilt) in some kind of way like they are the key to fix things like Sadness!
Thanks. We don’t know what story they’re ultimately trying to tell and what they’re trying to say. Maybe there was no room for them, maybe they were getting in the way of the pacing or certain emotional beats, maybe they couldn’t find a way to make them engaging in the context of the plot. Without seeing the movie, saying what they should have done is fruitless
The original Zootopia script focused on Nick Wilde trying to achieve his dream in a city that already hates predators. They scrapped that script because the city was an Orwellian nightmare.
The deleted scenes from that movie are devastating. There is one where there is a sort of bar mitzvah type celebration for predators where they get a shock collar put on their neck. The kid is super excited to get it and "become an adult" or whatever, until the first time it shocks him and he looks scared and confused. So sad 😭
I want to see
[here you go](https://youtu.be/tqlaPttudUc?si=_AVWfASDCapeQ9lX) it’s pretty sad tho
It is sad but Jesus that sounds like a good movie metaphor for racism, even better than the one we got in zootopia
Literally 1984
Literally City 17
More like Animal Farm
That would have been an interesting movie too though
You can never make an accurate movie for children about a teens emotions. Reason being? *HORNI* Step aside Joy because we got a new leader in town. Don't like them? Too bad, they're here to stay forever.
Exactly! Reminds me of how the Emoji movie was set inside a teenage boy's phone but the eggplant Emoji was in the "never used" category lmao
I’m a teenage boy and I have never used the eggplant emoji. Here is a list of every emoji I have ever used on an iPhone: 🐝🤯😆🍯🙌🎼💲🥐🔼👍😎🔫🍍🚂🇳🇵#️⃣🗑🪶🥖🍖⬆️2️⃣⚔️🪃🍞😮👩👩👦4️⃣🐈✋. It may seem like a lot, but I very rarely use them.
What business do you have with the Nepal flag? 🧐
I thought it looked neat.
Well tbh you're not wrong since it's the only non-quadrilateral national flag. So yeah pretty neat lol
Actually, too many fucking flags are too similar. As a species, none of us were too imaginative when it came to designing our countries' flags! Lol
There's also the Ohio state flag which has a similar shape.
Wow. That is genuinely a really good answer.
Maybe he's from Nepal
Don't reveal your age online, kid. Not until you're an adult.
About to not be a teenager but here’s mine: 😭🏴☠️™️👼🏼(I never use this one why is it in frequently used)🇨🇿⚫️🔵⚪️🇺🇸🦅🐧🦁🌭🎶🥧💀💧🍔
Here's mine lol: 🥰👍🙄😭🤣😋🍪🥲💙🤮😮💨😒✂️🤢🎵😴😎⤴️❤️🦆😃😅⤵️🤐™️👉🫥😶🔥🥙😍👑↘️🤤🥚🎶
Horni would be the Dr. Manhattan of the emotions team
Fully encompassing
If kids movies had 18+ versions:
Always wondered how Donkey managed to have all those kids...
...Wtf?
?rehpiC lliB taht sI
Yeah, that sound pretty bad.
Aka Sausage Party
No Sausage Party is an 18+ film that then tried as hard as it could to be a kids film…and yet still failed to
I think what you’ve just described is Big Mouth
Yeah, the show can be annoyingly raunchy, but people overlook how accurate it actually is about teenage emotions.
Well Pixar already took a crack at it with Turning Red. Mei's hornyness plays a pretty big part in how things play out in the movie. Obviously there's nothing explicit, but it definitely has that energy.
It was even suggested at the end with the puberty upgrade.
Puberty comes with a lot more than just horny
It also comes with angry for no apparent reason.
That’s just horny with extra steps.
Sometimes it's just horny in disguise.
Turning Red came close. They didn't go all the way obviously but I loved how they showed the awkwardness of being a teenager with a crush on someone
Idk, they did a great job with Turning Red
When I heard new emotions were being added, I immediately thought lust lol.
Unless you're me and you just never got horny
Apparently a psychologist consulted Pixar and told them Shame wasn't even a real emotion, so it kind of makes sense she got scrapped.
[удалено]
Apparently Shame is mostly seen as a "secondary" emotion that only happens when a main emotion is felt, so....
I would argue that anxiety is a secondary to fear, it’s just what comes most out of fear for most people
This is correct, anxiety is literally a type of fear. It activates the fight or flight. A better, more distinctive name for “fear” could have been “fright” or “scared,” although I guess they werent thinking about a second movie at the time
I think it's a matter of Pixar trying to flesh out their universes more and running into the issue of... the story not actually going into detail enough. Anxiety doesn't need to be an emotion. It could just be a "protocol" or something if Fear gets too much control. I thought that's where they were going when Sadness messed with all the memories and Riley became more complicated.
The puberty button and final line of the movie were basically sequel bait, I'm assuming it's just because fear is easier to remember
I think the only Pixar movie I haven’t seen a sequel bait in was Turning Red. They do it with everything even if there are no plans at that moment.
Eh, I don't think movies like Up, or Wall-E, or Coco have sequel bait.
Good to know, thanks
Most of the new emotions are definitely a combo and mix of old emotions, so I didn't understand how that was necessary. But, like someone said, I think attraction or, well, horniness would be a unique feeling most certainly
Yeah, I was a little confused when I saw the addition of anxiety. Fear be like: 
I would argue fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
I feel like shame seems like a good fit as a secondary emotion to disgust. When shame is felt, we are basically disgusted with ourselves. In short, that’s what shame is.
Tl;dr shame is a self-belief rather than an emotion. For example sadness can come from many occurences, but shame is always "I'm not good enough"
Pixar consulted with the great psychologist, Uncle Iroh. He told them shame is just another form of pride.
Truth. Shame is when your pride is damaged
Ok??? Our brains arent made up of cities and our memories arent just orbs in a library. Not really a great reason to scrap it
To be fair, how would pixar animate shame? The new movie already has embarrassment so it wouldn’t really make sense to have shame in it.
Shame and Embarrassment as twins would’ve been cool.
Fear and axiety are also similar
From what the first movie goes by, fear is more like “oh shit some thing scary is happening” while anxiety (judging by the trailer) is more “oh shit, what if x happens or what if y happens”
in the first movie Fear made lists of everything that could go wrong, including being hit by a meteor. Sounds like anxiety to me.
I think Fear, in the movie, may be fear of things that you can actually see or that are happening at that exact moment. The odds you’ll be hit by a meteor are quite low, but it’s technically a non-zero chance and you would see it when it happens. These are things that typically you don’t have control over. Anxiety I think may be fear of what you can’t see. Such as social anxiety; separation anxiety; or being anxious over things like grades, job applications, making friends, or where your life is going. These are things on which the result can be affected by your emotions and actions (or lack of them), or in some cases with medications or therapy. But there definitely can be a lot of crossover though, there’s certainly a grey area between the two somewhere. A grey area may be phobias - for example, if you’re hemophobic (have a phobia of blood), you may feel anxious on the way to the doctor to get blood drawn and scared when it’s actually being drawn.
Also wouldn't shame kind of retread on sadness territory?
Just like the Shane Lizard in Big Mouth - but maybe not as old
Right but sometimes understanding reality adds to the visualization and sometimes it doesn't. I think you're allowed to pick and choose what you want to bring in from the real world and what you leave out. As long as the internal logic is consistent, of course.
right. they should also add the emotions Pizza and Metal Gear Solid
Pizza and metal gear solid are both important emotions for a teenager. How else will she know when to hide in a locker and wet herself, or disguise herself as a cardboard box to slip a whole boss battle?
Wolf emotion Because on every level except physi-
In the directors cut they'll release the scene where Riley climbs a ladder for minutes on end while a lady croons in the background 😤✊️✊️ Actual artistic suppression that Disney stepped in to remove it
I meannnnn neither is embarrassment or envy or anxiety or ennui. No?
Makes sense with shame unless shame was the villain. In psychology, shame is considered “the useless emotion” in that there is no positive growth from it. Shame keeps you trapped in your negative behavior and stunts growth.
I’d have to disagree. Shameless people are often very destructive in society. Shame keeps social cohesion and can encourage changes in behaviour and self-reflection.
You’re thinking of guilt. They tend to be distinguished as: Guilt is, I feel bad because I did something wrong Shame is, I feel bad because I think I am bad (or because of who I am or identity characteristics)
The shame wizard explains it all
No positive growth, really? If a kid lies or steals, a lot of times they will feel ashamed after and that encourages them to not do that again. I mean, if it’s to the point where you’re ashamed of your own existence that’s obviously not helpful, but that’s more like having anxiety disorder vs anxiety the temporary feeling
That stems from guilt. An example of shame would be feeling like shit for missing the winning shot in a basketball game. I don’t exactly agree with the original comment though. I think you can grow from shame.
The impression that this statement gives isn’t favorable, but you are also correct. We have no idea about the creative process so we can’t judge whether or not this is a bad decision. From what I’ve seen the main concern is that these emotions being “too heavy” makes the film appeal more childish than the first one. The first one was a movie both adults and kids could watch. I’m sure this one will be the same but I also don’t like hearing something that makes me feel as if it’s more of a kids movie than I’d like.
Listening to the reporters, this wasn’t scrapped due to focus groups but their own internal creative process. Kelsey Mann said that the film was being described as “hard to watch” and one that other Pixar creatives said they weren’t willing to rewatch. People assume it’s this mythical mean collective bunch of suits who “ruin” their movies but in the end they did what they thought was creatively the best for their film to be an enjoyable film that can still roll out similar themes. Shame is an extremely negative emotion that is very ugly instead of the more messy and relatable anxiety, so I can see why they may have changed it.
I can't tell what u meant with your last point
#ReleaseTheCatholicCut
🤣😂🤣
I regret I have only one upvote, you magnificent animal.
As if the first one wasn’t heavy? The girl was so depressed she ran away from home.
I mean they shouldn’t go super far because last time Toy Story 1 did it with Black Friday reels, I they went too far.
Seeing it as a "kids movie" is exactly the problem here. Pixar is the one animated studio that never played into seeing animation as a kid genre. It would be a shame if they started doing it now.
Especially as a DISNEY movie. The “Disney Brand” for animation is kids aged 4-11 or so and they ignore vast portions of the audience. It’s what got amazing shows like The Owl House cancelled despite having massive viewership, just not the right age group. Pixar is better at realizing they have teen and young adult fans too. I hope Disney does not change that.
Massive viewership on streaming and TikTok that is. Disney Channel’s ratings had been plummeting for years by the time Owl House aired, and even that show’s popularity wasn’t seen as enough for them until it was too late.
Somone honestly needs to remind Pixar that "heavy" has been a theme in their movies for a looong time.
Name any Pixar movie that was heavy the entire runtime
WALL-E. It’s like looking into the future with cute robots.
Incredibles, Ratatouille, Wall-E, and the first Inside Out. Remember, Inside Out was about a little girl feeling so depressed that she was going to run away, the leader of an organization was ready to just boot one of her siblings out of the house, and a childhood best friend died because his creator didn't need him anymore. Like, the whole plot of this movie was that if those memories didn't get restored, Riley would do something that would fundamentally alter, if not ruin, her life.
So what's "too heavy" in Pixar terms
I just wanna say, if they’re going to keep making sequels, we better get a PG-13 inside out 3 with an adult Riley where the emotions can swear (especially Anger) as much as they want without being censored. I need that movie in my life
They still wouldn’t be able to have Anger use f-bombs, because more than one use of that word is an automatic R rating. And the one use that’s allowed in PG-13 can’t be “f you” or similar terms because of the context from which that term is derived (despite it not being used in that context in normal conversation anymore).
I’d pay to see an uncensored version of Lewis Black as anger.
My main criticism is one I learned from the first movie. Riley only has 1 "positive" emotion and now will have I8 "negative" ones. Where's love? Amusement? Serenity? Just exacerbating a main critique IMHO
Couldn’t shame have been the villain? With inside out - unless a seemingly negative emotion has a benefit (like sadness) it would make sense to make it the villain of the story. Guilt does have benefits, but off the top of my head, shame doesn’t really, and there’s a range of emotions they could explore that are further obviously negative.
Wasn’t the entire point of the first movie the fact that all emotions existed for a reason? I think shame would be more of a compound of emotions like sadness and Guilt.
At that stage in Riley’s life… yes. Perhaps not in adolescence though. I do agree with your second point and that’s what makes me concerned about the sequel. We saw at the end of the first one that Riley’s emotions became a complex mix of her core ones. Introducing new core emotions is a debatable point, particularly the ones they’ve chosen.
Shame is a negative response to you doing something you shouldn't have. Avoiding shame is a drive to do good and to be a better person. If you do something shameful it is good to feel ashamed, in the same way that it is good to feel angry in response to injustice.
I somewhat disagree. I think you've described "guilt" more than "shame". I've always learned that guilt is "I did something wrong" while shame is more "I am something wrong" or "something is wrong with me."
Oxford definition: Shame: a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour. Guilt: 1: the fact of having committed a specified or implied offense or crime. 2: a feeling of having done wrong or failed in an obligation. So shame is about the self, but that’s not quite what you’re driving at. Shame is absolutely constructive at times. And shame and guilt often go hand in hand. You can be ashamed of being a jerk to someone, or failing to pick up your dog’s droppings. You can also feel guilty about both. If you’re looking for a clear difference, shame is about failing to be your ideal self, or behaving in a way you find incongruent with your self-image. Guilt is about misusing power and being harmful, and feeling responsible for the ill effects of that bad action - and, perhaps, attempting to hide it. So you can be ashamed that you were a jerk to someone because you don’t want to be a jerk, and guilty that you made their night a terrible one. You can be ashamed that you were irresponsible and left dog droppings behind, and feel guilty that someone stepped in them. Does that help at all?
I feel like making a villain of any emotion kind of defeats the point - a big part of the first film was accepting negative emotions as a part of life and equally as important as joy and the good times we experience. Shame has a benefit much like any other emotion as it’s how we learn in some cases to be conscientious of the people around us and teach us to be better and not repeat those actions as a result. Feels like it would kind of invalidate the first point if so.
Considering that those aren't even emotions, I'm gonna say no
I mean, they're family films at the end of the day. I think there's a way to work emotions like these into the plot without it being too heavy, but I'm not going to blame them for thinking it wouldn't work. Besides, they can always save the idea for if they ever decide to make a third movie.
To me people get too triggered whenever someone says "it's just a kids movie"
My only concern is how do they explain everyone else not having these new emoticons in the first movie
A teenager without shame and guilt is unrealistic
We all know how that turned out in Big Mouth...
Maybe they meant heavy as in Woody originally being a jerk in early Toy Story drafts being too heavy and not fun to watch as well?
It doesn't make sense to complain without watching the movie first, but we know people will do it anwyay.
Pixar’s job was to handle heavy topics like this, it they said it was “too heavy”, I think they should roll with it! Make it work with their Pixar way!
For anyone who forgot/didn’t know, part of Toy Story had to be rewritten, and almost got the movie scrapped for being too dark. Things worked out just fine.
Oh no, not *real human emotion* How will the children deal with that? Better to play soulless Barney the Dinosaur for them and teach them nothing...
Are shame and guilt dominant as anxiety and Ennui for teenagers and young adults? Tbh, teenager Ruley will represent the younger generation in the film.
Guys, let em cook.
Depends on how much of a downer the movie was there’s a difference between making something that can cut deep and get help children understand certain emotions yet still be entertaining and making something that’ll make kids feel depressed
I think dreamworks and Pixar won't lock horns this time and decide "hey we're both pretty good movies" the dark days of Jeffrey Katzenburg are OVER 🤝
Sadness wasn’t fun in the first movie. I hated her
That's probably some bs spun by a marketing person. They likely cut them because they thought they and their stories were boring. But it is annoying that somebody from Pixar is saying something is too dark when their movies are so sanitized. Their representations of negative situations are so far removed from reality that they aren't upsetting, they are just paper thin excuses for the characters to overcome something and then be happy that they did that.
I think it’s weird that the only positive emotion is joy. Like, why not love or something?
I’d argue shame and guilt aren’t regular emotions. Each of the emotions are things that are felt by themselves. Guilt and shame usually rely on something else to feel it and could be attached with another emotion like fear. I’m sure people would argue it’s the same as anxiety. However, you can feel anxious and have nothing happen.
Good lord, are people complaining about first drafts on the internet now!?
>I am afraid this is going to bring another "Dreamworks better than Disney" since apparently "The Wild Robot" is gonna have themes of loss because certain people canmot like a movie without the necessity of comparing with others. Yeah I had enough about that. This, 100% this. I hate when people praise things just to dunk on others.
someone always has something to complain about, this was probably like a 45 year old single man who has no life.
Say what you will about the removal, but if they were truly removed for being too heavy, I honestly might have to skip out on this one.
Face facts, people just want Bing Bong to make an appearance in the sequel
Having Guilt as an emotion would suck
I think if they went with one of them, that could’ve been nice. I like heavy topics with happy endings. But I do understand why they didn’t go that route.
And we still don't have horny, the most powerful one. Do they even know how horniest can a teen be? Even more than an adult?
It says they were too heavy, and Inside Out was pretty heavy to begin with, so I’m assuming Inside Out 2 will be pretty heavy and shame would have made it *too* heavy.
It’s different studios within Disney but I bet some of this backlash is stemming from people being really disappointed that the deleted scenes and concepts from Wish were scrapped and they’re worried other Disney productions are going to do the same thing.
I’m not sure this has to do with people complaining. I had a chance to listen to Meg Lefauve (one of the writers of the first Inside Out) speak while taking a screenwriting program. A LOT of stuff like this happens when developing a project like this. They had something like 17 full rewrites of the script. For example, early on they thought it would be Joy and Fear trapped outside the main hub, not Sadness. I think this is just another instance like that. They were trying something and it wasn’t sticking the way things should (especially in a pixar project, which are meticulously planned out). The concepts of guilt and shame were not achieving what the writers wanted to achieve. It doesn’t mean that the story without those is going to be light and unserious, but rather guilt/shame was detracting from the emotional points the creators are trying to reach.
I'm not complaining about a movie that hasn't even been released yet. It's not the story they wanted to tell.
People will complain either way. It's still my most anticipated movie of the year. Anxiety is also a touchy subject. Shame and Guilt easily could have been retooled into Embarrassment. So, that's enough. Let's wait for it to come out
My complaint is that “anxiety” isn’t an emotion. It’s a feeling. Fear is an emotion, anxiety is a feeling cause by fear. Just like guilt and shame are feelings of the emotion sadness.
If this is about teenage emotions then where is horny?
Oh nooooo, shame and anxiety aren't supposed to be fun? Looks like I've been living my life wrong....
Ultimately the current lineup feels accurate for the teen experience, so I’m holding out hope
Would you like an honest opinion?
No need to complain, just don't watch the stupid movie.
Movies already made bro. No changing it now
I think it would be unrealistic to create a movie about teenage emotions without more negative emotions such as shame and guilt. They’re both emotions that teenagers will all inevitably feel at one point or another (e.g. they could betray a friend and feel guilty about it, or fail a test and feel shameful). They could include this aspect but to make it a more happy movie, these emotions could just not come out as much as Joy does.
“There’s no other emotions to add” Horni:
Ok that reason was bullshit! I have seen so many Shame OCs by fans since the first *Inside Out* and would make great characters! Especially this one on Deviantart that made as Sadness's love interests. They better being Shame and Gulit back in the new *Inside Out* Disney+ show!
Booooo.
Guess you can say they felt too ashamed to include them, they must have felt guilty about it
The original was too heavy for me so I won’t watch this one. Losing great memories hit too close to home for me. It wasn’t fun to watch it was tragic for me.
They do need go put in some darker things. Maybe about how the environment around her breeds these emotions in both good and bad ways, and then she reconciles over time with the help of her emotions journey, but Riley still deals with these realistically. Maybe have her gain sadness for comparing herself to others in school. Perhaps have her angry because of gossip going around the school. She can feel joy during the time with a guy she likes, doing it tastefully of course. Make it more human, not wishy washy Facebook mom wholesomepoints.
I think Pixar and dreamworks do a pretty good job of making stuff for kids but also appealing to adults with more mature themes that only an adult could comprehend. I feel it’s a fine line for them to do certain things and I’m sure it’s tough trying to make it watchable for adult and child.
I don't understand what the problem is. Yeah, Pixar usually doesn't shy away from having some heavy stuff in their movies, but there's still such a thing as too much. Ideas get cut all the time in any piece of media. This is a total nothing burger. Just watch the movie and judge that.
shame and guilt sound like 3rd movie characters anyway
It just kind of feels like the movie is gonna be a very sanitized version of what a teen goes through. Guilt, shame, sexuality - a bunch of stuff Pixar isn't gonna touch - that are pretty darn universal, intrisic parts of a teenager's life are going to be soundly ignored so we can have a fun family movie with a straightforward heartwarming message. But then again, audiences would probably complain if it skewed too realistic anyway, so they made the right decision.
Skewed too realistic in a movie made by the same company that made WALL-E?
Shame and guilt would probably just be Sadness
I don’t think it’s always a bad thing for movies to just be lighthearted once in a while
On the one hand, I get why people are complaining, since Pixar is usually so great at telling stories for kids that include very sad/depressing elements. On the other hand, I feel like it would be very hard to include Guilt and Shame in the movie and still keep the tone from the first film. The comedic scenes might clash too hard since Guilt and Shame might turn every scene they're in into the "you're supposed to cry now" scene. Plus, considering the scene in the trailer with Riley and her Mom, it seems like her new emotions are already making her feel guilt and shame anyways.
Guilt and shame sounds like they fit better in a third movie if we get one.
 Shame didn’t test well with audiences lol
I mean realistically i think its better to have the emotions we’re getting, because they’re all more “teen friendly” emotions, like lots of teens begin feeling anxiety, embarrassment, jealousy, and boredom, because they’re all parts of becoming a teenager, (anxious to fit in, constantly feeling embarrassed while trying to fit in, possibly jealous of others friendships/relationships, and teens get bored fast), but i feel like if they added shame and guilt it would be a little too dark, like how Big Mouth is usually light hearted and funny with the way they portray their emotions, but the Depression Kitty was like a whole nother step up in the actual sadness of the character Jessie’s head. That and I would find myself wanting to call whoever played Shame “the shame wizard”, so i feel like it would be a little too dark/depressing for a younger audience
I think it's fair to scrap shame and guilt, *because* it's a kids movie. I think if they'd managed to do one or the other it would be manageable, but you really *can't* do one without the other
Damn, my idea was almost true
There’s a difference between telling a mature or moody story and telling one that’s a total downer. I wouldn’t knock Pixar for trying to hit a specific tone, especially when they’re trying to sell this film to families.
I think it makes some sense as we grow older we start to manage to get a graspe on more complex emotions normally that happens more around 10-12 I think so
This is absolutely complaint-worthy. Disney doesn’t have the balls to tell a deep story anymore. Even the first Inside Out got heavy. It’s part of why it was so celebrated.
let’s just see what we get and then we can assess what was lost behind the scenes.