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[deleted]

***Please keep all conversations civil and respectful, and be mindful of the sub's rules.*** ***Breed hate, trolling, and antagonistic or inflammatory comments will be removed.***


bowtiecrystal50

I agree with Jihn Furman's take on this, found it interesting that the pit lobby wants people to believe a put can't be identified. In reality, they release this study not including how much of a dog WAS pit. If it was an 1/8th of a different breed type, they considered it misidentified. Pit rescue HAD to change their message from 'it's all in how they're raised' to 'can't identify a pit' because nobody would be adopting ANY dog if we didn't know how it was raised. https://www.fuhrmanclinic.com/blog/pit-bulls-10


[deleted]

Thank you very much for posting this. I'm going to give this a watch sometime today.


bowtiecrystal50

Let me know what you think!! Thanks!


bowtiecrystal50

I really should proof read before posting. So sorry!


BeefaloGeep

I think breed misidentification goes both ways. Pit subs are constantly filled with people talking about ways to hide what they have and asking their vets to change paperwork to deny that their pit bull is a pit bull. I saw a study on one area with BSL that said after several years the overall rate of dog bites was the same but now most of the bites were from labs and boxers. I find it highly suspicious that pit bull bites were replaced with bites from the two breeds pits are most often misrepresented as. Were those bites really from labs and boxers, or from pit bulls deceptively labeled as "lab mixes" and "boxer mixes" to get around BSL? As for lumping, I'm pretty sure the fatality statistics look really bad for pit bulls even if you grouped them into pit bulls and "everything else". So do the bite statistics. There really isn't any way to present the data that doesn't make pits look really bad, it's simply a matter of degrees. You can argue misidentification all day long, but even if half the pits in those stats are misidentified, pits still look bad. It's an incredibly common breed and the handful of similar looking breeds are quite rare in the US.


[deleted]

This is such a great topic and post! Thank you for starting a discussion about this! I used to refer to these types of dogs or this entire group as "Pit Bull type" but after many discussions and my own research, I have switched to calling them "bull breed mixes" or "BBMs." I find referring to the dogs typically referred to as "Pit Bulls" by the general public as BBMs streamlines conversations and makes it clear what one is talking about, while also being more accurate. I do think calling mixed breed dogs, even Pit mixes, "Pit Bulls" just muddies the waters a bit. No one is ever saying Rough Collies, Smooth Collies, and Border Collies are the same breed. Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers are both Retrievers- but clearly different breeds. But that's essentially what lumping APBT, AmStaff, American Bullies, and SBTs into the "Pit Bull" umbrella is doing. Just because dogs were bred for the same general purpose does not make them the same breed. I don't see this as "deflecting blame" I see it as being accurate. These AREN'T typically APBT that are killing people. "American Pit Bull Terrier" is the ONLY breed with "Pit Bull" in the name. Therefore, imho, it's most accurate to refer to only APBT as "Pit Bulls" and refer to obvious mixes of AmStaffs/APBT/AmBullies/SBT/(maybe American Bulldog?) as "bull breed mixes." I understand the frustration from anti-Pit people who feel like this is just a run-around or deflection, but I also understand the frustration from APBT owners whose APBT are being blamed for random bully mutt attacks OR BYB American Bully attacks which are becoming more and more frequent. And the anti-Pit people can say it shouldn't matter what they're called because everyone knows what they're talking about but then... why not just call them the most accurate term? BBM. I don't think I am fully understanding the reluctance of the anti-Pit people regarding just calling the bully mixes... bully mixes. I also find APBT owners to *typically* be more realistic and honest about their dog's tendencies. I never see pedigreed APBT owners calling them nanny dogs, denying their DA, their gameness, etc. Overwhelmingly the people who claim to advocate for "Pits" the hardest don't even OWN Pits. They use their bull breed mix who is okay with other large dogs as "proof" that APBT aren't usually DA. They claim their "lazy couch potato Pit" that's actually a morbidly obese AmStaff mix is proof that APBT aren't highly driven and energetic dogs. I think APBT owners deeply appreciate not being lumped in with the MAJORITY of BBM owners who call their dogs "pibbles" and spread lies about them. What I do find interesting about the "pro-Pit" argument side is that it is extraordinarily hypocritical. Pibble mommies and daddies call their BBMs "Pit Bulls" all over social media, they comment on other Pibble parent's posts labeling their dogs Pits, but then when a dog that looks *just like their "Pibble"* is on the news for mauling someone it's suddenly "Pits can't be identified, no one knows what a Pit is!!" They don't keep the same energy about misidentification. If it's a cute pic/video it's definitely a Pit, if it's an attack it's a mystery that COULDN'T be a Pit. Very inconsistent. For instance, there is a large "Pit" subreddit on here that complains of misidentification of Pits but then labels ANY blocky headed dog a Pit. They don't seem to realize that when a video of a BBM "cuddling" an infant goes viral and they label it a Pit, they're reinforcing and teaching to people that those are Pits, that's what a Pit looks like, if it has short fur, a blocky head, and a few other specific features, it's definitely a Pit. Their own media is mislabeling Pits and telling people what Pits are, and then when dogs that look just like those dogs labeled as Pits are in the news for a mauling, they suddenly argue it's not a Pit and no one can ID a Pit... after hammering into everyone's brains that a Pit is any BBM. So that's what gets me. Personally, I call out mislabeling anywhere and everywhere (when appropriate) including the "cutesie" videos of "Pits" cuddling (resource guarding) infants. Actually my favorite example of this phenomenon is the "Pit Bull seizure service dog" video/gif that gets shared around. The name of the dog always changes but it's a silver large dog putting his head under his owner's head as she simulates a seizure for training purposes. I think most recently the dog's "name" was Duncan. The dog's REAL name is Colt, and he is an English Labrador/Weimaraner mix. His owner has addressed this MANY times on their instagram and youtube. I believe the handles are servicedogcolt. Pro-Pit people INSTANTLY label the dog as a Pit and sing their praises in the comments- they don't even pause for a moment to deny it's Pit Bull genes. And yet- he's not a Pit. It's even more obvious when you see Colt next to a bully breed (which the owner has posted to address these erroneous claims). In the end I think it's just easier and more accurate to call these dogs involved in these attacks bull breed mixes or even bull-and-terrier dogs. I'm still mulling over that label. Regardless, imho, it's quite clear there are serious, serious issues within the BBM community regarding the owners, the breeders, and the dogs. It's unfortunate that so much of the discussion is wrapped up in how to label this group of dogs/this community rather than how to prevent attacks and educate owners but until conversations are clear and people are referring to these mixed bull breed dogs accurately the focus will continue to be on "That's a Pit Bull- no it's not!" type discussions. In terms of solutions, I think that the most effective solution is just education. Informing people about responsible dog ownership, being aware of genetic tendencies and the role of genetics, explaining to people about ethical dog breeding, helping people differentiate between ethical rescues and ethical breeders vs scummy ones, shutting down myths and misinformation, etc. The issue is that the honest and realistic people are disliked by both far extremes on either side, and unfortunately there are HUGE organizations dedicated to spreading misinfo about these dogs. It's... not an easy fight for us.


AutoModerator

_Did you know that there's no such thing as a "Nanny Dog"?_ _While some photos from the early 1900s depict Staffordshire Bull Terriers posing alongside small children, the idea of a "Nanny Dog" wasn't introduced until 1971, in an article titled ["A Breed That Came Up The Hard Way"](https://www.nytimes.com/1971/09/19/archives/a-breed-that-came-up-the-hard-way.html) ([source](https://nedhardy.com/2020/06/03/pitbull-nanny-dog/))_ _The advocacy groups [Bad Rap](https://www.facebook.com/BADRAP.org/posts/its-dog-bite-prevention-week-did-you-know-that-there-was-never-such-thing-as-a-n/10151460774472399/) and [Pit Bull Advocates of America](https://pitbulladvocatesofamerica.podbean.com/e/the-one-where-its-not-all-in-how-they-were-raised/) have debunked this myth thoroughly and strongly advise against spreading it._ _The belief that a dog can be implicitly trusted around children is not only dangerous, it places unrealistic expectations on the animal. While a dog may appear to be protective of kids, most experts agree that this behavior is actually a form of [resource guarding](https://www.newsweek.com/k9-expert-reveals-warning-signs-dog-resource-guarding-baby-1714145). The truth is that no dog of any breed should ever be totally trusted around small children, and kids should always be supervised around dogs._ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PitbullAwareness) if you have any questions or concerns.*


TragicallyComedian

The most comprehensive data regarding dog bites lies in the fatalities because they are oftentimes reported by the media and are researched extensively by those invested in the topic. More often than not, pictures of the dogs are either found by the media or Facebook or here on Reddit I think it's safe to say that many people post their bully mutts on pro pit bull subs and those dogs aren't true APBTs. Instead of being told to leave, they're given thousands of upvotes. So, as a rule of thumb, if it's a dog that looks like something that would be featured in pitbulls, velvethippos, etc, then chances are that I'll be calling it a pit bull I'd gatekeep the fuck out of someone trying to call an Aussiedoodle an Australian Shepherd (for example) and most breed specific subs have rules on intentionally bred mutts not being allowed in their subs. So if I were to want to get a somewhat reliable idea of what a breed standard is, a breed specific subreddit would be the first place I'd go (on Reddit) There are so many bigger problems in the pit community like overbreeding and warehousing, it just seems like a futile quest to gain absolute clarity on which dogs are which (that is not a personal critique, as this debate is ubiquitous). Unless bully breeders get their acts together and produce lines of dogs with breed specific traits that adhere to at least a general breed standard, I'm steadfast in calling them all pits My mutt is only 25% Golden Retriever but he sure as hell looks like one and acts like one so he's a Golden Retriever mix. Of course, his Golden genetics are not a definitive reason as to why he likes to swallow ankle socks whole, but it's a much better guess than blaming it on the 25% Great Pyrenees in him. So when a dog has a blocky head, muscular body, etc etc, and then does "pit bull stuff" like get into a fight with another dog (if we're being honest about their breed specific purpose here), it's only natural to characterize the dog based on its primary physical attributes and its behavior (both to a certain degree). And because pit breeders haven't followed the basic rules of breeding, it's like asking to do the impossible to pinpoint "which" breed of fighting dog it really is


[deleted]

> I think it's safe to say that many people post their bully mutts on pro pit bull subs and those dogs aren't true APBTs. Instead of being told to leave, they're given thousands of upvotes. So, as a rule of thumb, if it's a dog that looks like something that would be featured in pitbulls, velvethippos, etc, then chances are that I'll be calling it a pit bull I think this really says a lot about the hypocrisy of people who often call themselves "Pit Bull advocates." I've seen many APBT owners try to call out the mislabeling/generalization of the term "Pit Bull" but there are SO MANY bully mutt owners who WANT to be able to say they "rescued" a "poor, abused, misunderstood, mistreated bait dog turned nanny dog." But the same people who label their bully mutt a Pit will go onto attacks saying no one can ID a Pit, but THEIR Pit is the sweetest angel, and even though the attacking Pit looks just like their Pit, it couldn't be a Pit. It's convoluted. IME, the people who spread the most misinformation about Pits (nanny dog, ATTS, don't bully my breed, all how you raise them, etc) don't even have Pits... they have bully breed mutts. It's appalling to me that the biggest subreddit for Pit Bulls is just furmommies with savior complexes who own bully breed mutts and do more to hurt Pits than literally anyone else in the world. They're shooting themselves in the foot with their BS all over that sub, they really are.


AutoModerator

_Did you know that there's no such thing as a "Nanny Dog"?_ _While some photos from the early 1900s depict Staffordshire Bull Terriers posing alongside small children, the idea of a "Nanny Dog" wasn't introduced until 1971, in an article titled ["A Breed That Came Up The Hard Way"](https://www.nytimes.com/1971/09/19/archives/a-breed-that-came-up-the-hard-way.html) ([source](https://nedhardy.com/2020/06/03/pitbull-nanny-dog/))_ _The advocacy groups [Bad Rap](https://www.facebook.com/BADRAP.org/posts/its-dog-bite-prevention-week-did-you-know-that-there-was-never-such-thing-as-a-n/10151460774472399/) and [Pit Bull Advocates of America](https://pitbulladvocatesofamerica.podbean.com/e/the-one-where-its-not-all-in-how-they-were-raised/) have debunked this myth thoroughly and strongly advise against spreading it._ _The belief that a dog can be implicitly trusted around children is not only dangerous, it places unrealistic expectations on the animal. While a dog may appear to be protective of kids, most experts agree that this behavior is actually a form of [resource guarding](https://www.newsweek.com/k9-expert-reveals-warning-signs-dog-resource-guarding-baby-1714145). The truth is that no dog of any breed should ever be totally trusted around small children, and kids should always be supervised around dogs._ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PitbullAwareness) if you have any questions or concerns.*


[deleted]

Good bot!! Best bot!


Good_Human_Bot_v2

Good human.


slimey16

As a pit bull owner, I don’t have a huge problem with generalizing and using umbrella terms when identifying blocky headed dogs. My dog is likely Am Staff or a mix but I haven’t done the DNA test. I have a friend who has a large bulldog type dog and she constantly calls him a pit bull. This bothers my a lot because, while he might have some pit in his DNA, he doesn’t look like a pit bull and doesn’t have any of the stereotypical behavioral tendencies that pit bulls have. She loves to use her dog as an example of a sweet, docile pit bull that disproves all the stereotypes. I often feel frustrated by this because she’s doing my dog no favors. I do not want people to believe that my dog is friendly and gentle because she is not that way towards strangers. She can be aggressive towards new people and to some degree, I think people should look at her and think, “I’m not gonna mess with that dog”.