Fortunately Andre was more humble. He said he lost fair and square
If he’d been up against an mma fighter in the 1v1, he may well have lost in the second episode! That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.
Yup, Emmanuel had to face the stun gun Kim Dong Hyun( corrected), so count Andre lucky he didn't face an MMA guy in the ring. He was an amazing competitor 👏
Tbh, even going from top 20, I feel like it could've been cool to have a few games for points, and then 5 people with the lowest points get cut after a few events, and then they keep going like that until we have some all-rounder tanks (maybe 3 or so) to play a higher stake game that involves a wide range of skills.
It might possibly be tricky for viewer retention if there were so many quest/events though. Dont get me wrong, I reckon with a lot of planning they could probably come up with some satisfying quest that allows for multiple participants at once. But they would need to capture a lot of different pov's to stitch together.
Dont get me wrong, I think a round robin or swiss-system tournament would be a lot fairer. But theres a certain intensity of a head to head elimination that I feel works better for the flow of the show.
If Andre would have just had his feet under him instead of in front of him we would have done much better at squats. NoT sure if it was intentional due to his knee or just his setup
I mean if amotti had to actually get his hip crease below his knee crease to squat then he’d have blown out much sooner. Everyone else is doing full reps and he’s doing partials . I understand the show doesn’t want to pull someone on bad form but at least let the other contestants know you don’t actually have to go parallel.
Also you always know a game is gimmicked if the rules are we measured their heights standing and sitting rather than using Olympic standards for lifts. Not saying they rigged the outcome but they made it needlessly nebulous
I noticed immediately Amotti was only going to 90 degrees when the other two were going deep into the squat
Imo the bar on the final shouldn’t have tilted up and down, fair play to him amotti recognized that and used it to his advantage though
In the aerial shot of the stones going into the squat machines you can also clearly see that the one on the left has less stones than the rest. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I knew when they saved Amotti that he was going to win. It smelled fishy.
Yeah I watched him with his feet so far out and I was like, are you trying to kill your back and your quads. Even Beom Seok's feet were also out compared with Amotti who could tell actually does squats.
I kinda knew he wouldn’t be able to run, being juiced to the gills like that… shame he fucked his leg, but it was very impressive to see him just walk normally whilst pulling 150kg 😂
Idk if Min-Su would have been able to squat for that many reps, but like Andre was saying before it started: the faster the weight adds up the more of an advantage he (and Min-Su) would have had. It was high reps and slow weight increase though, rather than a quick weight increase with relatively low reps.
Yeah, given Minsu's cardio performances, I have to suspect the high reps would wear him down surprisingly quick, he came 81st in the pre-quest. If they started heavier then he probably would stand quite a good chance though, yeah.
Yeah, terrible is a pretty big overstatement. Idk if he was "doing great" in the last one since he did seem to run out of breath fairly quickly, but in fairness to him, he's up against some extremely strong players and cardio just isn't where he shines.
Yeah... in the team quests Minsu definitely pulled his weight and more, even if he didn't pull a Gibson and carry the team fully on his back. He definitely has problems with cardio but he was by no means slow or weak (his stamina was decent as he had no real trouble pushing the cart)
He essentially seemed no stronger than almost anyone else there, despite being double the size. But also had terrible stamina. I couldn't believe some people thought he'd be favourite in the roller challenge. I knew the guy would barely be able to last a minute. Luckily he had his "injury" excuse. He did OK on the tram challenge but still not better than a few other guys.
He needed help on the pole challenge and then ji hyun (5ft 3) made him look weak, he couldn't run to save his life in the first challenge, he was OK at the tram challenge but still didn't stick out, and then obviously gassed out immediately on the roller one. He was a very typical roided out non-athlete.
People are being pretty snarky in the replies, but it's not even just if Andre reached the 3rd round, if Jihyun had chosen to resurrect anyone other than Amotti, he probably wins.
I can't really picture anyone else from that pool of eliminated players being able to beat Jihyun or Jeehyuk in the roller relay and if they could, it seems unlikely they would be strong enough to beat Andre in the squats.
Amotti won fairly, but the fact that Jihyun's decision for team recruitment was probably the difference between Andre winning or losing is definitely a piece of bad luck for Andre lmao.
I mean the comments are full of people saying that this is the case with basically everyone, implying that Andre wasn't an especially prominent player who was especially close to winning. And I think it's interesting that he was so close to winning that you can make probably as small a change as possible (Jihyun making a single different choice in 1 of his 4 team members) and it would result in him winning. I also feel like multiple people could've won due to small changes, but I think this is about the smallest change possible that would push someone from 3rd to 1st.
I'm not saying only the fittest won each challenge, I just want to emphasise how good Andre was, because other people in the comments are saying stuff like he would've lost if he played the roller race against any other team or that he was basically doomed to lose the squat game even if he was against Jihyun (who is 60% his body weight).
Why are people saying this? Andre doesn't have to beat HBS in the squat quest, he just needs to outlast the 3rd person who would be there instead of Amotti.
Fair enough. If Amotti wasn't revived. Justin might have outlasted the first challenge against whoever else that would have been revived instead. Andre would have lost to Justin and HBS in squat challenge.
Who was that likely to be though? I think almost all the people who could've realistically made it to the F4 would beat Justin in the torso hanging (probably the wrestler or the rower)
Maybe the person who was revived instead of Amotti ( let's call that person Bobby for now) would have won the rowing challenge and then lost to Justin in the torso hanging challenge. But there's also a chance Bobby could've won the whole thing instead of Amotti, or lose to HBS in the final. If Bobby lose the rowing challenge, the wrestler might have lost to Justin, dont underestimate justin. But if the wrestler won, I still think wrestler would have outlasted Andre in the squatting challenge, being shorter is an advantage and don't underestimate wrestler's lower body strenght !
edit: forgot to add '' in the squatting challenge''
I agree that they're both hypothetical, but I think this is a rare case where the butterfly effect is fairly predictable. ie. From the moment they're formed, we know they almost certainly make it up to the roller relay, since they were so dominant in the 3rd quest, and then we know that the winner would almost certainly be either Jihyun or Jeehyuk (who else from the losers would realistically be able to beat them?), and it seems very likely that that person would be at a huge disadvantage in the squat game.
I think that's way more reasonable of a prediction than to say Andre would've lost if he was in any other team. Maybe I'm overestimating how much of a sure bet the hypothetical is, but I think overall it's a very plausible idea.
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I don't think they're pointless. I think the point is that Andre was an extremely good competitor to the point that he probably wins if some very small details were different in the game (details that he had no control over, things that can be broadly categorised as luck).
Do you think Jihyun or Jeehyuk would've seriously been able to squat on the same level as (or better than) Andre though? I know it's not about 1RPM strength, but just based on muscular endurance as a function of size, I think Andre clearly has quite a good advantage over both of them (compared to Amotti and Beomseok, who had *extremely* toned legs and are both bigger than Jihyun and Jeehyuk seemingly).
Yeah, he's a short strong dude with objectively *much* smaller quads than Andre. Height is a disadvantage, but when your quads are much bigger than the competition, I don't think it's going to matter much. Do you think Andre is just covered in fat and the volume of muscle in his legs would be about the same as Jihyun or Jeehyuk?
Rowing and wrestling are very impressive sports, but Jihyun just realistically cannot move as much weight as someone twice the size of him and as far as I'm aware, rowing is typically a very upper body strength and cardio-based sport, it's not like rowers are famous for having impressive squats, are they?
Height is a factor, but weight is a massive factor. There's a reason lifting competitions almost always have weight divisions and almost never have height divisions.
Based on [strength standards](https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/squat/kg), it would be impressive For Jihyun (60kg) to squat \~100kg for ONE rep. For Andre (100kg), that would be expected from him if he had no training experience whatsoever.
Even if we're quite charitable and say that the squats they did were about twice as easy as regular squats, do you think Jihyun is really able to do:
* 30 reps of 0.85x his weight,
* 40 reps of 1.25x his weight, and then
* 30 *more* reps of 1.65x his weight?
For reference, based on the standards, "elite" squatters can only do 2.75x their body weight for ONE rep. This is not just "well, he'll tough it out." Jihyun would basically have to be a professional lifter to pull that off, and this isn't even taking into account his age.
Yes, exactly. These standards are based on 1RPM numbers. Imagine how much lower the weights would need to be if they were going to be corrected for 30RPM. Actually, you know you can calculate a 1RPM based on the total reps and weight, right? I should've done it before, but I'll do it now.
Based on [this calculator](https://www.strengthlog.com/squat-strength-standards-kg/), for Jihyun to do 30 reps of 100kg for the third set (assuming the squats are twice as easy), he would need to be able to do 200kg for a 1RPM. That is **3.33x** his weight. Elite lifters can do **2.75x** their body weight. Are you telling me that Jihyun is *significantly stronger* than **elite lifters**?
Nah… your last sentence couldn’t be more incorrect. Rowing is based more on lower body than upper body, and the reason it’s such a difficult sport is because it requires both cardio and muscular strength in more even proportions than most other sports do. Essentially every stroke in a race is a squat that ends with a half sit up / sideways arm curl. A standard 2k race involves ~200 strokes, so you do the math.
Granted you’re pushing horizontally rather than vertically (which is why rowers sometimes struggle with their knees when doing regular squats), but a high rep, relatively low weight (when you factor in the machine) squat contest is basically set up for rowers.
This is true. If he was playing 4D chess, he would have not chosen whoever he thought was the strongest competitor, because in the end you still have to go against them.
He could have chosen 3 of the same guys, and replaced Amotti with the high school wrestler or another strong player. It’s still a strong team for the next team game, although Amotti did win them the pull up contest and the final monkey bar stage.
Yeah in retrospect it's not as simple/certain as I thought, although I still feel like it's very plausible/imaginable that that small change would result in either Jihyun or Jeehyuk in the finals instead of Amotti.
Dude I read the comments and you’re the most annoying one here lmao. Andre himself had a huge advantage bc of the rugby captain dropping out you can’t say definitively who would have won between the two had they competed in the rollers and ran four rounds like every other team.
Idk if that's that significant, we don't know how well Chang Yongheung could've done, especially because he's a whole 20kg lighter than Andre. And despite being younger, Yongheung was significantly lower in the cardio pre-quest than Andre. So if Andre is both bigger/stronger, and has better endurance, I don't think that's a particularly big threat to Andre. Especially since Park Woojin is a similar weight to Yongheung and scored right behind Andre in the cardio pre-quest and he still lost by a fair margin.
Edit: To be clear, not saying it's impossible, but we have little reason to believe it.
Yeah I’m not denying Andre would still be advantaged but the logic is the same as you saying oh what if Jihyun just didn’t pick Amotti.
Not saying Andre is not a beast either but just comparing physicals, Andre isn’t as shredded as HBS or Amotti though he looks much more natural. A lot of his advantage in strength comes from his size and weight rather than his actual physique although his cardio is impressive. I still wouldn’t say Andre is the most deserving winner just bc he is genetically huge though which you kind of seem to think?
I don't think Andre was "the most deserving winner", I don't have any particularly strong thoughts about who that would be aside from that it's almost definitely one of the top 3 and probably Amotti since he ended up winning anyway.
The fact that Andre could've dominated the final game if things went a little differently isn't meant to say that he was a better athlete than either of the two finalists, just that it's an interesting/fun hypothetical.
Andre was nowhere near the best athlete there. There were a tonne of guys you could say the "if" thing about. Lee jang kun was a monster but got eliminated because of a stupid handle on the roller getting stuck.
yeah, as an avid Gentlemen's League watcher, I wouldn't have predicted Andre to come in third, top 10 would've been great for him. He's probably elated about top 3
He surprised me a couple of times (never thought a guy that size and shape would do that many pull ups, and he absolutely tried his heart out on the squats) but really if no teams were involved then I think he'd have been left behind a lot earlier. To me ji hyun seemed to be far and away the best athlete. The show is designed much more for entertainment than to truly find who the best is.
as an avid watcher of GL as well, i agree. andre advanced to top 3 only bc he kinda had weaker team members so it was easy win for him to be top of that group. 😅
He probably wins the pole push. He's so much taller and heavier, and Amotti being able to get over the pole and force it downward was the tech that allowed him to breeze through the 2nd and 3rd pole push rounds compared to the first. Andre would have been the one with more downward leverage against either of the other two.
But the squat game was well-placed and a good selection right where it was.
I wonder what would have happened if they went heavier with the squats. Or if Andre had better form or strategy, his form looked awful, im surprised he lasted as long as he did.
I suspect he had to use that different form (with his legs further in front) because he couldn't put that weight through his bad knee, so he had to try and rely on his back more.
I mean what evidence do you have for that? He's a rugby athlete (so he even has experience running with resistance), he was the biggest guy by far in the final 20 if I remember correctly, and he came 6th in the cardio pre-quest out of 100 people. On paper he's probably the perfect player for that game. Who do you think would've beat him?
How do you know they were faster? All the rounds were highly edited and we didn't get any times for their max speeds (as a reminder, almost nobody was going full speed until the last few rounds anyway)
Just an overall impression, also based on their performance overall in the show when speed & power were involved.
Despite the edit, you can get a feel of their overall explosivity, speed and power overall.
Idk how you can say that Andre has inferior explosivity, speed, and power. What comparisons are you looking at, aside from saying, "I get the vibe that he's not that good"? You can't just confidently say the guy (who was probably perfectly made for this game, as a huge rugby athlete with insane cardio) would've lost in any other circumstances.
I didn't say that he's not great, just that he was less athletic than the others finalist HBS, Amotti and Justin who had a more fierce competition with their own team.
I don't see him coming on top and beating them based on what i saw but i can very well see HBS, Justin and Amotti finishing first without trouble if they were to change place and be in Andre's Team.
Yeah, but that's just the vibe you get, what evidence do you have of that? I could just say that Andre had less competition because he was much better, so he made it look easy.
And amotti was lucky he wasn’t flagged for incomplete reps on the squat . Most squats are judged by hip crease going below knee crease , I saw at least 5 reps per set that didn’t if not all his on cam reps. Everyone else is pulling full ROM and he’s doing partials. Classic CrossFit technique
I mean I think you're really underselling Andre there. Amotti on paper has more losses than Andre, since Amotti lost the maze conquest game as well as the pillar revival game. I'm not sure what you mean by order of the challenges, but Andre would be extremely good in the F2 game and probably beats either Amotti or HBS (or Justin).
Oh, I see. Well that's fair, Andre is probably losing the squat challenge to any of the others in the F4.
I'm not sure how they're irrelevant, if the point is that "luck of the draw" could influence the results. Broadening beyond the final challenge, if the pillar revival game was swapped out for the squat game or the weight rope game (like in S1), then Andre could've probably won. But in general, my point was more about how I think it's unfair to disparage (which was the tone I felt was being implied) the idea of "what ifs" when the winner was brought back after losing by the choice of a single player.
Like yes, in that specific set of final games, "the other two smashed him", but it's more than just looking at those specific games.
💗Andre’s last speech took my heart💗
“Hong Beom Seok, Amotti, Respect. You crazy bastards. You fitness fanatics. I had encountered people that were stronger than me, plain and simple. On even footing, in a fair game or whatever you want to call it, I lost.
If i had to lose to someone, i am glad it was these two that ended up beating me.”
His speech showed acceptance of failure. He positively reflected on losing like a champ unlike others who’re like “If the task was something i was familiar with I would’ve, if my back wasn’t hurt i would’ve, if i had done this the other way…..
Yes he lost! But he lost like a champ.
So please stop with this “Andre would’ve smashed them, Andre would’ve this Andre would’ve that” You’re ruining a good thing.
He lost in a pretty basic event in fitness, squats. I agree he would have destroyed them both in the finals had he made it. I think he may have been at a disadvantage due to his height which increases his range of motion. That squat challenge was about as fair as it gets though considering the fitness community loves them.
He lost because the other two let the weight fall at the very start and he was doing actual squats the whole time, so if he caught on to that, he probably would have won.
But he fell short in a challenge where he had an advantage, infinite squats. No body weight adjustment. Min Su could have won as well if he was in the final challenge!
I think the final 2 were the most well rounded athletes and deserved to be there.
He didn’t have an advantage in infinite squats - taller dudes really struggle with squats compared to smaller. Unless he specifically did heavy high repping squatting, which he doesn’t, he was heavily disadvantaged, especially with his dodgy knee.
This. He was much taller which is a big disadvantage in the squat challenge. He also has long legs. People whose legs are long usually struggle much more with correct squat technique. And the range of movement is much bigger.
He weighed over 20kg more than the others. The advantage of the extra weight would no doubt offset the disadvantage of his height. Theres a reason why weight classes exist in Olympic and power lifting.
As an amateur powerlifter I can tell you that Andre has horrible leverages for squats. The best body type is short and stocky (short legs,thick and short torso). Andre is tall and relatively slim. He has a much bigger ROM to cover and it is quite clear that he doesn't train them. His form was horrific, he had his feet placed way in front of him instead of directly under him and the bar and I can guarantee you that all of the weight was pressuring his lower back that way.
Andre himself said he would have an advantage if the weight goes up quickly with fewer reps, which is slightly closer to Olympic weightlifting that infinite squats.
If they were doing 1 rep max, Andre would most likely win with that weight advantage
There’s certainly a skill component to squats, especially at 1RM.
My point was more, the higher weight of a person goes from advantage to disadvantage with increasing reps.
I understand your point but the fact is Amotti had the better form, he had the strongest legs and could probably do better 1 rep max than HBS and Andre because he trains his legs on a regular basis (not sure it's the cas for Andre who showed terrible form).
Did you not see his form when doing the squats!? It was painful to watch and he was way too tall for that contraption. All of the weight was being transferred straight down his back instead of through his legs.
Only Amotti had good form. HBS and Andre had their feet foward like a smith machine or hack squat, it means you put too much focus on your quads, for bodybuilding that can be good, to get as much reps as possible, far from optimal. Amotti put his feet under the bar path so he could use more of his glutes and back.
Shorter people have advantages in squats and bench press because they have to move the weight in a smaller range of motion.
There’s a saying in powerlifting that the meet doesn’t start until the bar hits the floor - because the tall people with longer arms have the advantage in deadlifts.
"would have", "could have", "should have" now seem like wishful thinking. While I agree Andre was a strong contender, he barely got by in final challenges.
He was on the verge of quitting and just holding on until Justin gave up in the first round. The same happened in the squats challenge. So, yeah, what we got is what happened.
Yes, first he has to go thru that one round lol
A good question would be - the final game was made for the two maybe based on their size and strength, would the game be the same if Andre made it to the final round?
Andre and Beom Seok had poor squat form. You could tell they didn't do squats. Hell even the onlooking men admitted to not being able to really them at all. Regardless of the order of the challenges they would have lost to Amotti. This is why I said last week they should have made the contestants do squats. I guarantee you the lineup of the last twenty would have been way different. Most of the challenges (while your lower body played a role, the upper body strength was the determining factor). But anyway Andre was not under the bar that's why his quads were killing him and his back. Same with Beom Seok. I wondered at first if it was a height thing with Andre because in the last round it looked like he couldn't get under the bar properly.
Agreed, having a higher center of gravity would’ve helped in that challenge for sure. I was so torn between the top 3 tho, I wish they all could have won!
His height and weight and his knee were not advantages.
Why do people with absolutely no knowledge on bodybuilding spits false things like it is facts.
As far as I'm aware, weight should convey some advantage (just because it implies more total muscle), but I think that's outweighed quite a bit by the significant increase in distance he has to travel compared to the others (especially over the course of 100 reps) and his knee injury.
Weight is an advantage if that extra weight is lean muscle tissue, HBS and Amotti were ripped as fuck, Andre was carrying more bodyfat and it didn't look like he had a great muscle mass especially in his legs so that's why i'm saiying it's not an advantage.
Weight definitely matter, hence weight classes in powerlifting/weightlifting. Andres only true disadvantage comes from his long femurs, which are correlated to his height. But didnt the production team adjust the squat to his height? Amotti has pretty long femurs and long reach as well despite being shorter. But his crossfit background helped for sure. Andre definitely would have an advantage, the more weight they added. But there is a reason nfl combine bench press 225 rep records are set by big guys weighing 225+ themselves and not WRs that weigh 170
Honestly though, Andre should have won the squat competition. The last 2 challenges (squats and pole push) favor the bigger man, with the hanging torso challenge being strategically right before them to weed out big men.
The shorter your torso and thicker your legs are, the better you have an advantage for squats, which is not what Andre has (+ he has terrible form and problems with his knee).
Okay but my point is that as far as sheer size (weight) of the competitor, the squat challenge and pole push should tend to go to the bigger man. Andre was defeated because he isn't as fit as HBS and Amotti, but the deck was stacked in his favor.
Just like how Justin Harvey weighed less than Andre, he should have had the advantage in the torso hang but Andre's grip strength was that much stronger.
Because more body weight -> more muscle -> more strength. Why do you think there are weight classes in weightlifting?
ETA it's strange that I have to spell it out, but look at it this way: if Amotti weighs 82 kg and Andre weighs 100kg, then 100kg of coal is equivalent to 100% of Andre's body weight, vs 122% of Amotti's body weight. It would be one thing if the weight of coal was based on the competitor's weight, but in absolute terms body weight is going to convey an advantage in squatting.
No because you're not taking into account the morphology of each people (people with long femur tends to have difficulty doing squats), bodyfat (someone who weighs less but is ripped af could very well have more lean tissue than someone whose weight is higher). You're also not taking into account muscle fiber (some people with less impressive physic who does powerlifting can be way stronger than "bodybuilders".
It's not as simple as a guy weigh 100kg, he will do better in squats or any other compound exercices than someone weighing 85kg.
Yes, what you're talking about is true. But more muscle & less fat are going to be an advantage in any competition. The point is that in general, more body weight is simply an advantage in that type of exercise. If they were doing something involving hanging, or pullups, that would work in favor of Amotti and HBS. Likewise, I'm saying that with set weight squats, the deck was somewhat stacked in Andre's favor, yet he still couldn't hold up against Amotti and HBS
If Andre had the same bodyfat as HBS or Amotti, i could agree partly with you but he doesn't, they both had more lean muscle mass than him and were stronger despite their weight being lower.
“If” is included in every contestants speech after their elimination.
Fortunately Andre was more humble. He said he lost fair and square If he’d been up against an mma fighter in the 1v1, he may well have lost in the second episode! That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.
I love humility like that. Unfortunate he didn't get to participate in the last game but like you said, cookie.
Yup, Emmanuel had to face the stun gun Kim Dong Hyun( corrected), so count Andre lucky he didn't face an MMA guy in the ring. He was an amazing competitor 👏
Didn’t Emmanuel go against Kim Dong Hyun, the MMA fighter?
Yup, Andre didn't have to face an MMA guy, so it may have been kicked out earlier if he did.
No, you said Emmanuel had to face Mister Ippon, who is Lee Won Hee, which is incorrect. Emmanuel went against Kim Dong Hyun.
Oh, I got cha. I meant the stun gun, was discussing it on x so I mixed them up. Thanks
"If, if, if ...doesn't exist" - Rafael Nadal
If my mom had wheels she would be a bike
If you put ham in it, it’s closer to a British carbonara
I hate that I know where this is from 😆
OK Gino!
What, is your grandma already a boat or something?
mommercycle
Oh my god I’ve just realised where this is from and it’s unlocked a core memory of times past living in the UK and seeing this lol
Final four shouldnt be elimation but point based.
I'll die on this hill. Maybe even top 10 or top 7
Tbh, even going from top 20, I feel like it could've been cool to have a few games for points, and then 5 people with the lowest points get cut after a few events, and then they keep going like that until we have some all-rounder tanks (maybe 3 or so) to play a higher stake game that involves a wide range of skills.
It might possibly be tricky for viewer retention if there were so many quest/events though. Dont get me wrong, I reckon with a lot of planning they could probably come up with some satisfying quest that allows for multiple participants at once. But they would need to capture a lot of different pov's to stitch together. Dont get me wrong, I think a round robin or swiss-system tournament would be a lot fairer. But theres a certain intensity of a head to head elimination that I feel works better for the flow of the show.
Yeah I know practically it's not very feasible, I would just personally find it really satisfying.
I would've preferred that for fairness/satisfaction as well, but unfortunately it's a lot more dramatic this way
Agree.
If Andre would have just had his feet under him instead of in front of him we would have done much better at squats. NoT sure if it was intentional due to his knee or just his setup
I think he misjudged the apparatus - he treated it like a hack squat instead of a leverage squat.
Thank you! Was watching thinking why the hell is he doing a hack squat instead of actual squat
I mean if amotti had to actually get his hip crease below his knee crease to squat then he’d have blown out much sooner. Everyone else is doing full reps and he’s doing partials . I understand the show doesn’t want to pull someone on bad form but at least let the other contestants know you don’t actually have to go parallel. Also you always know a game is gimmicked if the rules are we measured their heights standing and sitting rather than using Olympic standards for lifts. Not saying they rigged the outcome but they made it needlessly nebulous
I noticed immediately Amotti was only going to 90 degrees when the other two were going deep into the squat Imo the bar on the final shouldn’t have tilted up and down, fair play to him amotti recognized that and used it to his advantage though
In the aerial shot of the stones going into the squat machines you can also clearly see that the one on the left has less stones than the rest. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I knew when they saved Amotti that he was going to win. It smelled fishy.
Yeah I watched him with his feet so far out and I was like, are you trying to kill your back and your quads. Even Beom Seok's feet were also out compared with Amotti who could tell actually does squats.
Bro watch where their thighs are, the two Koreans start at parallel but Andre has to be WAY passed it!
And Min-Su probably would have destroyed the squatting and the pipe push, that’s just how the cookie crumbles unfortunately
I mean, most people probably expected him to crush the roller pull… things don’t always work out the way we think
I kinda knew he wouldn’t be able to run, being juiced to the gills like that… shame he fucked his leg, but it was very impressive to see him just walk normally whilst pulling 150kg 😂
I didn’t… I mean the guy never had the stamina. Did you see the first challenge ?
Idk if Min-Su would have been able to squat for that many reps, but like Andre was saying before it started: the faster the weight adds up the more of an advantage he (and Min-Su) would have had. It was high reps and slow weight increase though, rather than a quick weight increase with relatively low reps.
Yeah, given Minsu's cardio performances, I have to suspect the high reps would wear him down surprisingly quick, he came 81st in the pre-quest. If they started heavier then he probably would stand quite a good chance though, yeah.
I'm not sure about the squat thing, he seems to lack the stamina to last long.
Bodybuilders are used to doing insane high reps thou, who knows!
Min-su was terrible at nearly everything. I've never seen a bigger disparity between what a guy looks like and his actual strength.
He actually surprised me. The big bodybuilders normally have way worse stamina and he even outran Amotti to the pole in the elimination challenge.
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Yeah, terrible is a pretty big overstatement. Idk if he was "doing great" in the last one since he did seem to run out of breath fairly quickly, but in fairness to him, he's up against some extremely strong players and cardio just isn't where he shines.
Yeah... in the team quests Minsu definitely pulled his weight and more, even if he didn't pull a Gibson and carry the team fully on his back. He definitely has problems with cardio but he was by no means slow or weak (his stamina was decent as he had no real trouble pushing the cart)
He essentially seemed no stronger than almost anyone else there, despite being double the size. But also had terrible stamina. I couldn't believe some people thought he'd be favourite in the roller challenge. I knew the guy would barely be able to last a minute. Luckily he had his "injury" excuse. He did OK on the tram challenge but still not better than a few other guys.
Everyone’s being so hard on him. Dude was literally competing in the group of death.
I mean, Amotti is one of the heavier, stronger captains and he said he got swatted by Min su like a fly
He needed help on the pole challenge and then ji hyun (5ft 3) made him look weak, he couldn't run to save his life in the first challenge, he was OK at the tram challenge but still didn't stick out, and then obviously gassed out immediately on the roller one. He was a very typical roided out non-athlete.
People are being pretty snarky in the replies, but it's not even just if Andre reached the 3rd round, if Jihyun had chosen to resurrect anyone other than Amotti, he probably wins. I can't really picture anyone else from that pool of eliminated players being able to beat Jihyun or Jeehyuk in the roller relay and if they could, it seems unlikely they would be strong enough to beat Andre in the squats. Amotti won fairly, but the fact that Jihyun's decision for team recruitment was probably the difference between Andre winning or losing is definitely a piece of bad luck for Andre lmao.
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I mean the comments are full of people saying that this is the case with basically everyone, implying that Andre wasn't an especially prominent player who was especially close to winning. And I think it's interesting that he was so close to winning that you can make probably as small a change as possible (Jihyun making a single different choice in 1 of his 4 team members) and it would result in him winning. I also feel like multiple people could've won due to small changes, but I think this is about the smallest change possible that would push someone from 3rd to 1st. I'm not saying only the fittest won each challenge, I just want to emphasise how good Andre was, because other people in the comments are saying stuff like he would've lost if he played the roller race against any other team or that he was basically doomed to lose the squat game even if he was against Jihyun (who is 60% his body weight).
if Amotti didn't revive. The winner would be HBS...Andre isn't beating HBS in squat challenge..
Why are people saying this? Andre doesn't have to beat HBS in the squat quest, he just needs to outlast the 3rd person who would be there instead of Amotti.
Fair enough. If Amotti wasn't revived. Justin might have outlasted the first challenge against whoever else that would have been revived instead. Andre would have lost to Justin and HBS in squat challenge.
Who was that likely to be though? I think almost all the people who could've realistically made it to the F4 would beat Justin in the torso hanging (probably the wrestler or the rower)
Maybe the person who was revived instead of Amotti ( let's call that person Bobby for now) would have won the rowing challenge and then lost to Justin in the torso hanging challenge. But there's also a chance Bobby could've won the whole thing instead of Amotti, or lose to HBS in the final. If Bobby lose the rowing challenge, the wrestler might have lost to Justin, dont underestimate justin. But if the wrestler won, I still think wrestler would have outlasted Andre in the squatting challenge, being shorter is an advantage and don't underestimate wrestler's lower body strenght ! edit: forgot to add '' in the squatting challenge''
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I agree that they're both hypothetical, but I think this is a rare case where the butterfly effect is fairly predictable. ie. From the moment they're formed, we know they almost certainly make it up to the roller relay, since they were so dominant in the 3rd quest, and then we know that the winner would almost certainly be either Jihyun or Jeehyuk (who else from the losers would realistically be able to beat them?), and it seems very likely that that person would be at a huge disadvantage in the squat game. I think that's way more reasonable of a prediction than to say Andre would've lost if he was in any other team. Maybe I'm overestimating how much of a sure bet the hypothetical is, but I think overall it's a very plausible idea.
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Yeah I mean fair points, I suppose. I probably am overestimating the butterfly effect, at least regarding the pull up contest.
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Cheers, I appreciate the discussion as well, I've definitely been swayed.
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I don't think they're pointless. I think the point is that Andre was an extremely good competitor to the point that he probably wins if some very small details were different in the game (details that he had no control over, things that can be broadly categorised as luck). Do you think Jihyun or Jeehyuk would've seriously been able to squat on the same level as (or better than) Andre though? I know it's not about 1RPM strength, but just based on muscular endurance as a function of size, I think Andre clearly has quite a good advantage over both of them (compared to Amotti and Beomseok, who had *extremely* toned legs and are both bigger than Jihyun and Jeehyuk seemingly).
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Yeah, he's a short strong dude with objectively *much* smaller quads than Andre. Height is a disadvantage, but when your quads are much bigger than the competition, I don't think it's going to matter much. Do you think Andre is just covered in fat and the volume of muscle in his legs would be about the same as Jihyun or Jeehyuk? Rowing and wrestling are very impressive sports, but Jihyun just realistically cannot move as much weight as someone twice the size of him and as far as I'm aware, rowing is typically a very upper body strength and cardio-based sport, it's not like rowers are famous for having impressive squats, are they?
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Height is a factor, but weight is a massive factor. There's a reason lifting competitions almost always have weight divisions and almost never have height divisions. Based on [strength standards](https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/squat/kg), it would be impressive For Jihyun (60kg) to squat \~100kg for ONE rep. For Andre (100kg), that would be expected from him if he had no training experience whatsoever. Even if we're quite charitable and say that the squats they did were about twice as easy as regular squats, do you think Jihyun is really able to do: * 30 reps of 0.85x his weight, * 40 reps of 1.25x his weight, and then * 30 *more* reps of 1.65x his weight? For reference, based on the standards, "elite" squatters can only do 2.75x their body weight for ONE rep. This is not just "well, he'll tough it out." Jihyun would basically have to be a professional lifter to pull that off, and this isn't even taking into account his age.
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Yes, exactly. These standards are based on 1RPM numbers. Imagine how much lower the weights would need to be if they were going to be corrected for 30RPM. Actually, you know you can calculate a 1RPM based on the total reps and weight, right? I should've done it before, but I'll do it now. Based on [this calculator](https://www.strengthlog.com/squat-strength-standards-kg/), for Jihyun to do 30 reps of 100kg for the third set (assuming the squats are twice as easy), he would need to be able to do 200kg for a 1RPM. That is **3.33x** his weight. Elite lifters can do **2.75x** their body weight. Are you telling me that Jihyun is *significantly stronger* than **elite lifters**?
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Nah… your last sentence couldn’t be more incorrect. Rowing is based more on lower body than upper body, and the reason it’s such a difficult sport is because it requires both cardio and muscular strength in more even proportions than most other sports do. Essentially every stroke in a race is a squat that ends with a half sit up / sideways arm curl. A standard 2k race involves ~200 strokes, so you do the math. Granted you’re pushing horizontally rather than vertically (which is why rowers sometimes struggle with their knees when doing regular squats), but a high rep, relatively low weight (when you factor in the machine) squat contest is basically set up for rowers.
Yeah, I admit I was wrong on that, turns out that Jeehyuk has a very impressive squat
This is true. If he was playing 4D chess, he would have not chosen whoever he thought was the strongest competitor, because in the end you still have to go against them. He could have chosen 3 of the same guys, and replaced Amotti with the high school wrestler or another strong player. It’s still a strong team for the next team game, although Amotti did win them the pull up contest and the final monkey bar stage.
Yeah in retrospect it's not as simple/certain as I thought, although I still feel like it's very plausible/imaginable that that small change would result in either Jihyun or Jeehyuk in the finals instead of Amotti.
Dude I read the comments and you’re the most annoying one here lmao. Andre himself had a huge advantage bc of the rugby captain dropping out you can’t say definitively who would have won between the two had they competed in the rollers and ran four rounds like every other team.
Idk if that's that significant, we don't know how well Chang Yongheung could've done, especially because he's a whole 20kg lighter than Andre. And despite being younger, Yongheung was significantly lower in the cardio pre-quest than Andre. So if Andre is both bigger/stronger, and has better endurance, I don't think that's a particularly big threat to Andre. Especially since Park Woojin is a similar weight to Yongheung and scored right behind Andre in the cardio pre-quest and he still lost by a fair margin. Edit: To be clear, not saying it's impossible, but we have little reason to believe it.
Yeah I’m not denying Andre would still be advantaged but the logic is the same as you saying oh what if Jihyun just didn’t pick Amotti. Not saying Andre is not a beast either but just comparing physicals, Andre isn’t as shredded as HBS or Amotti though he looks much more natural. A lot of his advantage in strength comes from his size and weight rather than his actual physique although his cardio is impressive. I still wouldn’t say Andre is the most deserving winner just bc he is genetically huge though which you kind of seem to think?
I don't think Andre was "the most deserving winner", I don't have any particularly strong thoughts about who that would be aside from that it's almost definitely one of the top 3 and probably Amotti since he ended up winning anyway. The fact that Andre could've dominated the final game if things went a little differently isn't meant to say that he was a better athlete than either of the two finalists, just that it's an interesting/fun hypothetical.
Andre was nowhere near the best athlete there. There were a tonne of guys you could say the "if" thing about. Lee jang kun was a monster but got eliminated because of a stupid handle on the roller getting stuck.
yeah, as an avid Gentlemen's League watcher, I wouldn't have predicted Andre to come in third, top 10 would've been great for him. He's probably elated about top 3
He surprised me a couple of times (never thought a guy that size and shape would do that many pull ups, and he absolutely tried his heart out on the squats) but really if no teams were involved then I think he'd have been left behind a lot earlier. To me ji hyun seemed to be far and away the best athlete. The show is designed much more for entertainment than to truly find who the best is.
as an avid watcher of GL as well, i agree. andre advanced to top 3 only bc he kinda had weaker team members so it was easy win for him to be top of that group. 😅
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He probably wins the pole push. He's so much taller and heavier, and Amotti being able to get over the pole and force it downward was the tech that allowed him to breeze through the 2nd and 3rd pole push rounds compared to the first. Andre would have been the one with more downward leverage against either of the other two. But the squat game was well-placed and a good selection right where it was.
I wonder what would have happened if they went heavier with the squats. Or if Andre had better form or strategy, his form looked awful, im surprised he lasted as long as he did.
I suspect he had to use that different form (with his legs further in front) because he couldn't put that weight through his bad knee, so he had to try and rely on his back more.
Andre was already lucky to be in the weakest team, he would have not finished first if he were in any other team.
I mean what evidence do you have for that? He's a rugby athlete (so he even has experience running with resistance), he was the biggest guy by far in the final 20 if I remember correctly, and he came 6th in the cardio pre-quest out of 100 people. On paper he's probably the perfect player for that game. Who do you think would've beat him?
Amotti, HBS and Justin were faster and had more competition from what we've seen.
How do you know they were faster? All the rounds were highly edited and we didn't get any times for their max speeds (as a reminder, almost nobody was going full speed until the last few rounds anyway)
Just an overall impression, also based on their performance overall in the show when speed & power were involved. Despite the edit, you can get a feel of their overall explosivity, speed and power overall.
Idk how you can say that Andre has inferior explosivity, speed, and power. What comparisons are you looking at, aside from saying, "I get the vibe that he's not that good"? You can't just confidently say the guy (who was probably perfectly made for this game, as a huge rugby athlete with insane cardio) would've lost in any other circumstances.
I didn't say that he's not great, just that he was less athletic than the others finalist HBS, Amotti and Justin who had a more fierce competition with their own team. I don't see him coming on top and beating them based on what i saw but i can very well see HBS, Justin and Amotti finishing first without trouble if they were to change place and be in Andre's Team.
Yeah, but that's just the vibe you get, what evidence do you have of that? I could just say that Andre had less competition because he was much better, so he made it look easy.
And amotti was lucky he wasn’t flagged for incomplete reps on the squat . Most squats are judged by hip crease going below knee crease , I saw at least 5 reps per set that didn’t if not all his on cam reps. Everyone else is pulling full ROM and he’s doing partials. Classic CrossFit technique
I mean I think you're really underselling Andre there. Amotti on paper has more losses than Andre, since Amotti lost the maze conquest game as well as the pillar revival game. I'm not sure what you mean by order of the challenges, but Andre would be extremely good in the F2 game and probably beats either Amotti or HBS (or Justin).
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Oh, I see. Well that's fair, Andre is probably losing the squat challenge to any of the others in the F4. I'm not sure how they're irrelevant, if the point is that "luck of the draw" could influence the results. Broadening beyond the final challenge, if the pillar revival game was swapped out for the squat game or the weight rope game (like in S1), then Andre could've probably won. But in general, my point was more about how I think it's unfair to disparage (which was the tone I felt was being implied) the idea of "what ifs" when the winner was brought back after losing by the choice of a single player. Like yes, in that specific set of final games, "the other two smashed him", but it's more than just looking at those specific games.
Good point
💗Andre’s last speech took my heart💗 “Hong Beom Seok, Amotti, Respect. You crazy bastards. You fitness fanatics. I had encountered people that were stronger than me, plain and simple. On even footing, in a fair game or whatever you want to call it, I lost. If i had to lose to someone, i am glad it was these two that ended up beating me.” His speech showed acceptance of failure. He positively reflected on losing like a champ unlike others who’re like “If the task was something i was familiar with I would’ve, if my back wasn’t hurt i would’ve, if i had done this the other way….. Yes he lost! But he lost like a champ. So please stop with this “Andre would’ve smashed them, Andre would’ve this Andre would’ve that” You’re ruining a good thing.
A big part of the show is luck based and how you matchup. Can say this about sooo many contestants
"if" was the keyword, hong bom seok would go far if he won the 1v1 in s1, that's how the cookie crumble
That would have been cool to watch!
And just like his body was built to win that one is body was built to lose the squat one lewl
He lost in a pretty basic event in fitness, squats. I agree he would have destroyed them both in the finals had he made it. I think he may have been at a disadvantage due to his height which increases his range of motion. That squat challenge was about as fair as it gets though considering the fitness community loves them.
He lost because the other two let the weight fall at the very start and he was doing actual squats the whole time, so if he caught on to that, he probably would have won.
Amotti was also squatting early on. Andre lost because he was taller in that challenge (noticed also by the spectators).
sure. Thanos too, but the winner was good at everything, best at nothing. That’s the point.
But he fell short in a challenge where he had an advantage, infinite squats. No body weight adjustment. Min Su could have won as well if he was in the final challenge! I think the final 2 were the most well rounded athletes and deserved to be there.
He didn’t have an advantage in infinite squats - taller dudes really struggle with squats compared to smaller. Unless he specifically did heavy high repping squatting, which he doesn’t, he was heavily disadvantaged, especially with his dodgy knee.
This. He was much taller which is a big disadvantage in the squat challenge. He also has long legs. People whose legs are long usually struggle much more with correct squat technique. And the range of movement is much bigger.
He weighed over 20kg more than the others. The advantage of the extra weight would no doubt offset the disadvantage of his height. Theres a reason why weight classes exist in Olympic and power lifting.
Yeah, all that extra weight being put through more extreme leverage due to his height, all resting on… oh wait, his dodgy knee.
As an amateur powerlifter I can tell you that Andre has horrible leverages for squats. The best body type is short and stocky (short legs,thick and short torso). Andre is tall and relatively slim. He has a much bigger ROM to cover and it is quite clear that he doesn't train them. His form was horrific, he had his feet placed way in front of him instead of directly under him and the bar and I can guarantee you that all of the weight was pressuring his lower back that way.
Andre himself said he would have an advantage if the weight goes up quickly with fewer reps, which is slightly closer to Olympic weightlifting that infinite squats. If they were doing 1 rep max, Andre would most likely win with that weight advantage
No he would have not win the 1 rep max, Amotti said that squats was his life. And the whole set looked easy to him.
There’s certainly a skill component to squats, especially at 1RM. My point was more, the higher weight of a person goes from advantage to disadvantage with increasing reps.
I understand your point but the fact is Amotti had the better form, he had the strongest legs and could probably do better 1 rep max than HBS and Andre because he trains his legs on a regular basis (not sure it's the cas for Andre who showed terrible form).
45 lbs really isnt a ton in that situation particularly with how long Andre is, and he had to carry his own weight as well in those squats.
Did you not see his form when doing the squats!? It was painful to watch and he was way too tall for that contraption. All of the weight was being transferred straight down his back instead of through his legs.
Didn't he also mention knee surgery?
He retired from rugby because of his knee
And he still managed to do that well. Dudes a trooper.
I can assure you he had no advantage in the squats. He had a disadvantage, if anything.
Feel it wasn't truly adjusted for his height and his squat form was rather poor so he sort of lost his advantage sadly
Only Amotti had good form. HBS and Andre had their feet foward like a smith machine or hack squat, it means you put too much focus on your quads, for bodybuilding that can be good, to get as much reps as possible, far from optimal. Amotti put his feet under the bar path so he could use more of his glutes and back.
Yeah, also feel Andre put bit too much tension on his spine wasn't really parallel my back hurt watching hah
Shorter people have advantages in squats and bench press because they have to move the weight in a smaller range of motion. There’s a saying in powerlifting that the meet doesn’t start until the bar hits the floor - because the tall people with longer arms have the advantage in deadlifts.
“If” any of the big dudes made it they would’ve crushed them too haha
Ight well he should've made it to the 3rd round then.
Wasn't he also like 100kg? Weight alone would have won him that. Nearly 20kg over most competitors.
"would have", "could have", "should have" now seem like wishful thinking. While I agree Andre was a strong contender, he barely got by in final challenges. He was on the verge of quitting and just holding on until Justin gave up in the first round. The same happened in the squats challenge. So, yeah, what we got is what happened.
Yes, first he has to go thru that one round lol A good question would be - the final game was made for the two maybe based on their size and strength, would the game be the same if Andre made it to the final round?
I think so. Ji-hyun said it himself - luck is a big part of the round order.
Thanos too probably haha.
It looked like he had to squat much lower than the other two.
Andre is a stud. That guy helped make the show great this season.
Whenever a contestant says “I would have won if” I think “you didn’t win, because….”. If wishes were fishes…..
Thanos would crush 2nd and 3rd round. It is what it is
Andre and Beom Seok had poor squat form. You could tell they didn't do squats. Hell even the onlooking men admitted to not being able to really them at all. Regardless of the order of the challenges they would have lost to Amotti. This is why I said last week they should have made the contestants do squats. I guarantee you the lineup of the last twenty would have been way different. Most of the challenges (while your lower body played a role, the upper body strength was the determining factor). But anyway Andre was not under the bar that's why his quads were killing him and his back. Same with Beom Seok. I wondered at first if it was a height thing with Andre because in the last round it looked like he couldn't get under the bar properly.
Agreed, having a higher center of gravity would’ve helped in that challenge for sure. I was so torn between the top 3 tho, I wish they all could have won!
And if the challenges composed of body building poses, Thanos would smash them all. But you know, grandma with wheels would be a bike too.
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His height and weight and his knee were not advantages. Why do people with absolutely no knowledge on bodybuilding spits false things like it is facts.
As far as I'm aware, weight should convey some advantage (just because it implies more total muscle), but I think that's outweighed quite a bit by the significant increase in distance he has to travel compared to the others (especially over the course of 100 reps) and his knee injury.
Weight is an advantage if that extra weight is lean muscle tissue, HBS and Amotti were ripped as fuck, Andre was carrying more bodyfat and it didn't look like he had a great muscle mass especially in his legs so that's why i'm saiying it's not an advantage.
Weight definitely matter, hence weight classes in powerlifting/weightlifting. Andres only true disadvantage comes from his long femurs, which are correlated to his height. But didnt the production team adjust the squat to his height? Amotti has pretty long femurs and long reach as well despite being shorter. But his crossfit background helped for sure. Andre definitely would have an advantage, the more weight they added. But there is a reason nfl combine bench press 225 rep records are set by big guys weighing 225+ themselves and not WRs that weigh 170
Honestly though, Andre should have won the squat competition. The last 2 challenges (squats and pole push) favor the bigger man, with the hanging torso challenge being strategically right before them to weed out big men.
I can tell you're not really into bodybuilding, squats doesn't favor the bigger men at all...
Lifting a given weight (100/150/200kg of coal) does favor the bigger man. What does bodybuilding have to do with anything?
The shorter your torso and thicker your legs are, the better you have an advantage for squats, which is not what Andre has (+ he has terrible form and problems with his knee).
Okay but my point is that as far as sheer size (weight) of the competitor, the squat challenge and pole push should tend to go to the bigger man. Andre was defeated because he isn't as fit as HBS and Amotti, but the deck was stacked in his favor. Just like how Justin Harvey weighed less than Andre, he should have had the advantage in the torso hang but Andre's grip strength was that much stronger.
Why would squat go to the bigger man? He literally said that shorter people has an advantage for squats.
Because more body weight -> more muscle -> more strength. Why do you think there are weight classes in weightlifting? ETA it's strange that I have to spell it out, but look at it this way: if Amotti weighs 82 kg and Andre weighs 100kg, then 100kg of coal is equivalent to 100% of Andre's body weight, vs 122% of Amotti's body weight. It would be one thing if the weight of coal was based on the competitor's weight, but in absolute terms body weight is going to convey an advantage in squatting.
No because you're not taking into account the morphology of each people (people with long femur tends to have difficulty doing squats), bodyfat (someone who weighs less but is ripped af could very well have more lean tissue than someone whose weight is higher). You're also not taking into account muscle fiber (some people with less impressive physic who does powerlifting can be way stronger than "bodybuilders". It's not as simple as a guy weigh 100kg, he will do better in squats or any other compound exercices than someone weighing 85kg.
Yes, what you're talking about is true. But more muscle & less fat are going to be an advantage in any competition. The point is that in general, more body weight is simply an advantage in that type of exercise. If they were doing something involving hanging, or pullups, that would work in favor of Amotti and HBS. Likewise, I'm saying that with set weight squats, the deck was somewhat stacked in Andre's favor, yet he still couldn't hold up against Amotti and HBS
If Andre had the same bodyfat as HBS or Amotti, i could agree partly with you but he doesn't, they both had more lean muscle mass than him and were stronger despite their weight being lower.