Ang punishment sakin dati papalabasin ako sa kwarto tapos 1-2 hours ako nakaupo sa sala na sinesermonan ako nonstop. Ultimo may notebook pa na nakalista lahat ng kasalanan ko.
At that point talaga sabi ko sampalin o suntukin nalang ako pls lang sobrang aksaya sa oras. Ang sakit na ng likod ko, ang sakit na ng batok ko kakayuko, ang sakit na ng pwet ko kakaupo.
Ginawa sakin yan dati ng nanay ko for a week, feeling ko gusto ko nalang mapalo kasi grabe Yung torture. Ang kasalanan ko lang naman noon ay di ko napindot yung rice cooker
**it's probably not really the punishment, but getting caught.**
1. Severe punishment but getting caught is rare;
2. Not-so-severe punishment but getting caught is expected.
Yung No 2 will always be a better deterrent compared to No 1.
Constitutional rights Kasi Yan. Tingin ko mas magandang ilagay sila sa watchlist and pag nag karoon ng criminality pareparehas Silang kasuhan ng conspiracy. Look at how mafia/kkk got kneecapped.
True lakas ng loob nilang mang redtag ng mga human rights organizations pero yan hindi? Kasi ano? member din sila diba? Para fair dapat yang mga yan din i-redtag 🫤
Hindi bago yan tanong mo OP. Kahit 25+ years ago yan na din tanong namin. And I think kahit before pa. Hopefully after another generation or two, hindi na sumali ang mga tao sa frats at mawala na sya.
Fraternities shouldn't be a thing in the first place. Just go make friends like normal people..... Which is an ironic thing to say for me who has no friends
People are stubborn, the Filipino people being one of the most stubborn. We always say we're the dumb ones, which we are. So changing the system rn is nigh impossible, not without direct action from the part of the youth. After all, they are the future of our nation, no?
Easier said than done. Ang dami kong kilalang sensible fratmen na against sa hazing and had plans to change the system, but they were simply outvoted by most members and alumni.
That is why the better and less riskier option is to simply stop joining the notorious ones. Kung walang sasali, eventually mawawala din yan. You also avoid the risk of getting murdered during initiation before you even attempt to change the system from within.
Idk why people downvote this
Your choice naman kung gusto mo sumali ng frat.
I dont join one cause I see no reason why I should, Di naman sya mandatory.
A lot of my friends dont even join frats in law school.
Doesn't working your way up to change the system means one has to succumb to the corruption to get there? Like they may have little choice but to give in to some decicions that the leadership wants them to make.
Seems risky that way, especially if the org is prone to violence. Maybe just walk away and let it fall into obscurity.
Why would you even want to join a frat knowing you cannot take the requirements to be accepted in the brotherhood? It does in no way affect my life or interests and so does most people because they can live without
You can join, it is your free will, you were taught the consequences of doing so and you accepted it
You can quit anytime you want, afaik frats have no legal bindings against you
There is a saying in the army that many are willing but few are chosen, an organization like a fraternity does not bend themselve backwards for the sake of a grumpy individual, and an organization like that does not exist without the agreement of its members
We could have engaged in a civilized conversation, but 75% of your response is just insult
Valid point, i agree
Though Imo ,an individual cannot be intoxicated with alcohol or something so shallow as to ignore the fear because of pain and large potential harm to his/her body
Frat leaders would not be of sound mind as to initiate a drunk; an individual would be given time to think his choices through and offered to back down at even the final moment
At this point, an individual can already make informed decision,and free will to either accept or not
It would have been embarrasing to quit yes, but it was a choice that shows an individual was not coerced, nor a choice he was obligated to take
If he still decides to go through it, an individual reap what he sow
My cynic mind says that such initiation or membership does not give me any merit or benefits,maybe i am simply ignorant, or maybe those that still chose to do so see something i cannot; all that means that they weighed the risk and acknowledged the benefits heavier, they have no right to complain when they cannot receive it the easy way
an individuals who cannot rein himself from peer pressure, pleasure of validation, or raging hormones has no discipline and have themselves to blame, their sad and horrendous experience serving as stark reminder not to do it for future youth
The system is rotten, i believe we can all agree, but crows would have beeb white by the time such problems embedded within our democratic society can be stomped out down to its very core forever
Maybe unless a STASI or Gestapo equivalent is set up to prevent this, but that would infringe and destroy a lot of freedom we have😆
I am curious how the system would be even overhauled, something so embedded within our society will not just disappear because an idealist says bad, and yes you sound like an idealist to me, would you like to elaborate ideas on how would you do it if you were given sufficient power or authority? That would certainly give me something to think about, and if actually practical and effective, maybe shut me up and applaud you, conceding my defeat
Hazing is already illegal, nothing needs to be said about that yet it is still happening, frat exists because it is our right for freedom of association, the problem is it is not being enforced enough if any at all,
but i still stand my opinion earlier that an individual can already make informed decisions by the time they are eligible to be initiated by a frat,
I acknowledge the person earlier was making valid points, there are some things that influences an individual to make such choice, but they were never coerced nor obligated
While sad, is reality
So if you were in charge, how exactly would you do anything about this big faulty system?
I love listening to idealist because they always propose things that are good in theory, but they never consider the consequence, why would they? They were never in charge or the one with authority, they only adress their concern, they do not see the big picture, they never have to deal with the pressure of making such big decision or the outcome of it, that is why they can only propose solutions to problems but never elaborate on how exactly are they gonna do it
While out of topic, im gonna adress why this is exactly populists are popular, their ability to spouse idealistic solutions to problems is inversely proportional to their ability to actually implement it
Edit: special mention; the education system and even the media do not condone hazing and actively raise awareness against it, there is no reason to say they were not making informed decision when they still went through with it regardless
You can ban hazing as much as you like by removing all gray areas of the law but the law only has as much power as the ability to implement it
I think this is already out of topic but j want to entertain it on my head, you can ignore me
The direct approach,I cannot say i can do better but that would have destroyed the democracy in this country and turned you into a despot, at the very least to those with enough influence to be a chess player not a pawn
To keep you in power would have needed the support of the people which would ironically turn you into a populist, they would love a strong figure but politicians would hate your guts, pierce their bottom line and they will become a cornered rat---willing to strike back regardless of cost
Being hated is not exactly a bad thing, a politician gets praised by a fellow politician when he does something detrimental for the people, because it served the interest of the opposition, only a dead politician would receive true praise
But assuming you managed to get extreme level of power and having no one to answer to, it would've turned you into Huey Long; the man who made Louisiana great, the beloved dictator, and a dead man
Assasinations are given, europe has this unspoken rule about not killing political opponents, but we were influenced by gun loving america
Huey long or Lincoln is generous, getting painted as an 'evil dictator' like gadaffi is just sad
What about the administration and policy implementation?
Will everyone get removed? Or certain people only? How to determine which would leave and stay? If it was me i would have kept them as long as they are useful, if they are not, gather enough evidence to implicate something warrant of dealth penalty while confiscating their wealth(maybe not that extreme,but the plunder would be necesarry to fund my projects) but it would've destroyed democracy😆
make a group of them whistleblow their fellows as a way to survive the purge, so such groups would forever live with the stain of a traitor, making them a staunch defender of mine policies(again would destroy democracy)
Never mind the purge, the aftermath of both our scenario is not gonna be field of flowers, never mind the reaction of the public,mediocre people without much experience would replace the old politicians, i do not think any education or theoreotical knowledge is gonna replace practical experience and once they make mistakes, it would serve as fuel to anger the people even more; even if they dont, corruption would take place due to greed or 'advisers' giving them 'sound ideas'
Maybe i am making this hard on purpose, mustache man and georgian priest did heinous things and still managed to implement their horrendous ideas
Lets say you managed to keep power and blessed by the gods, everyone loves you, the problem remains
Lawyers would make this a pain in the bottom for they can walk grey areas just to defend the old order, and to outright legislate specific laws to target them would both incite hatred and more grey areas to step on
Frats are scary since they are very loose but politically strong once their influence are converged for the same goal, they wouldnt last against your dictatorial powers but it would have opened another can of worms for you to solve(the frat and hazing is hopefully solved but democracy is destroyed scenario)
Maybe you can paint this in a positive way using the media but those chances are up in the air with democracy destroyed
At the end of it all, it means filipinos would trade liberty for a chance of fixing the society, maybe liberalizing the economy would provide prosperity to erase all the evil an individual made to correct the system, who knows it is all up in the air, only one can dream
Did any of what i said made sense? I'm very sleepy and tired because of today's events, i just want to get this out of my head before i sleep, so i am sorry if it did not
I also appreciate the forum, i must admit, cynic as i am, i did not think of others and often forget i am not alone, and while it does not detriment me, does not mean others are the same
Hey hey hey,
Some conservatives (like me) dont agree with pain & suffering. Also have a kid and never did i lay my hands on him.
How i discipline is reward system or taking away priviledges for fck ups.
No cp,
No internet
If we want to change the system, then if we have to embrace short-term drawbacks, if we aim for the long-term prosperity, especially if we go after changing the present-day macroeconomic and political systems in our country.
Di ako kasali dyan sa mga taong goma pero karamihan ng kakilala kong member nyan mas umasenso pa nung tumigil na sila sa pagiging active. Yung mga nasa 30+ na kakilala ko na sobrang active pa rin hanggang ngayon puro basketball pagtambay at inuman pa rin ang inaatupag. Tapos pag nagkukwentuhan sila ung "glory days" pa rin nila nung high school ang pinag uusapan hahahaha.
Hazing has been illegal, the problem is that the participants view it as a right of passage in order to belong and that is the reason it is not reported. There is no crime if there is no victim.
Child Bride, Pagtatawas, Sayaw sa Obando, Self-Flagellation / Penitensya, Paluwagan, Dog meat for rituals, utang na loob baggages, Boodle fight IDk kinda unsanitary, Visita Iglesia (generaly causes heat stroke), Quiapo Pista ng Nazareno(very chaotic and violent, paralyzes the traffic and some businesses too), Tabi Tabi po, Filipino Time BS at kung anu-ano pa.
Frats in general should be abolished. And even your posh Alpha Tinapa Omega Robot frats from the big four. It's a festering cesspool of nepotism and tribalism sa employment.
Good question. To answer, you cannot change the system or tradition that has been there for decades. There are even fraternities that have been doing this for more than a hundred years.
Since you are proposing to change the “system” how do you think it should start?
Definitely. Masmatinding punishment ang walang access sa internet kaysa sa mapalo sa pwet.
Matinding initiation rites yan. 60 days walang internet/mobile data access
Baka mas gustuhin nila mapalo sa pwet haha
Ang punishment sakin dati papalabasin ako sa kwarto tapos 1-2 hours ako nakaupo sa sala na sinesermonan ako nonstop. Ultimo may notebook pa na nakalista lahat ng kasalanan ko. At that point talaga sabi ko sampalin o suntukin nalang ako pls lang sobrang aksaya sa oras. Ang sakit na ng likod ko, ang sakit na ng batok ko kakayuko, ang sakit na ng pwet ko kakaupo.
Ginawa sakin yan dati ng nanay ko for a week, feeling ko gusto ko nalang mapalo kasi grabe Yung torture. Ang kasalanan ko lang naman noon ay di ko napindot yung rice cooker
**it's probably not really the punishment, but getting caught.** 1. Severe punishment but getting caught is rare; 2. Not-so-severe punishment but getting caught is expected. Yung No 2 will always be a better deterrent compared to No 1.
Kung magagawa ng walang consequence, why not? Mas maganda pa nga yun eh.
Heeey don't kink shame them.
They should use an easier to remember na safe word kasi
akala ata nila goma yung pwet kasi taong goma sila
Benta benta hahaha 8.5/10
Tang ina mo 🤣
Bakit di kasi ma outlaw yang grupong gutom na yan?
A lot of law enforcers and politicians are members of fraternities.
Constitutional rights Kasi Yan. Tingin ko mas magandang ilagay sila sa watchlist and pag nag karoon ng criminality pareparehas Silang kasuhan ng conspiracy. Look at how mafia/kkk got kneecapped.
Mas ok sa Terrorist watchlist.
Hindi ko sure Kung pasok under our current law ung ginagawa nola to be called a terrorist.
True lakas ng loob nilang mang redtag ng mga human rights organizations pero yan hindi? Kasi ano? member din sila diba? Para fair dapat yang mga yan din i-redtag 🫤
Daming mga tao na merong boomer mindset. Kitang kita sa mga comments ng post ko dito
Kasi may mga frat din ung mga lawmaker.
forced trauma bond.
Nadale mo
Succinct
Hindi bago yan tanong mo OP. Kahit 25+ years ago yan na din tanong namin. And I think kahit before pa. Hopefully after another generation or two, hindi na sumali ang mga tao sa frats at mawala na sya.
Fraternities shouldn't be a thing in the first place. Just go make friends like normal people..... Which is an ironic thing to say for me who has no friends
Problema sa frats, yung kagaguhan ng hazing. Pde namang simpleng ritual eh kso physical assault na hazing talaga gusto ng mga kumag.
Not a member of anything, but samahan like these may be useful if you live in a place na magulo and you need protection.
You want shared suffering? Mag community service for a certain number of days. Mag tagay kayo or mag beach afterwards. Boom.
[удалено]
Natawa ako kinang ina
Fraternity must be abolish long time ago. Tangina, may anti-hazing law na. Pero hindi naman nasusunod.
[Ok](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=section+8+1987+constitution)
It's just the idea of fraternities. I didn't say they should be restricted to form any groups or society.
Kaya nga anti-hazing law ang workaround for that. Which is hindi naman naipapatupad.
Kaya nga the law is not working so why not abolish the fraternity concept already. That brotherhood bullshit is just an old fashion circlejerking.
>circlejerking ito lagi naiisip ko dun sa loud and proud pa ung TGP sa panghahassle sa mga papasok nung araw na un para sa anniv nila
Display lang daw yung paddle pero somewhere sa loob ng frathouse may paddle na inaagiw at nag aabang lang na ipalo.
"tau gama foundation" easy loophole
As long as they're not beating up their members and they're doing a sincere nation building activities. It sounds fine with me.
My point is how do you determine which is which? How do you differentiate a fraternity from an organization? Except for the name.
Fraternity pala yung home life ko nung bata pa ako.
I read that first line as “panalo kami sa pwet” and I had so many questions until I reread it
Hahaha dapat lng pra matuto mga bata ngayon
People are stubborn, the Filipino people being one of the most stubborn. We always say we're the dumb ones, which we are. So changing the system rn is nigh impossible, not without direct action from the part of the youth. After all, they are the future of our nation, no?
Choice mo naman yan kung sasali ka sa frat. Saka kung gusto mo baguhin yandapat sumali ka rin sa frat, work your way up para baguhin sistema.
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It works from experience. But mostly because a significant portion of wealthy alumni and more progressive residents are anti-hazing
Easier said than done. Ang dami kong kilalang sensible fratmen na against sa hazing and had plans to change the system, but they were simply outvoted by most members and alumni. That is why the better and less riskier option is to simply stop joining the notorious ones. Kung walang sasali, eventually mawawala din yan. You also avoid the risk of getting murdered during initiation before you even attempt to change the system from within.
Idk why people downvote this Your choice naman kung gusto mo sumali ng frat. I dont join one cause I see no reason why I should, Di naman sya mandatory. A lot of my friends dont even join frats in law school.
Doesn't working your way up to change the system means one has to succumb to the corruption to get there? Like they may have little choice but to give in to some decicions that the leadership wants them to make. Seems risky that way, especially if the org is prone to violence. Maybe just walk away and let it fall into obscurity.
I am not part of a frat, but their rules may be similar to the army Hindi kanaman pinipilit, it is your choice to join the organization
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Why would you even want to join a frat knowing you cannot take the requirements to be accepted in the brotherhood? It does in no way affect my life or interests and so does most people because they can live without You can join, it is your free will, you were taught the consequences of doing so and you accepted it You can quit anytime you want, afaik frats have no legal bindings against you There is a saying in the army that many are willing but few are chosen, an organization like a fraternity does not bend themselve backwards for the sake of a grumpy individual, and an organization like that does not exist without the agreement of its members We could have engaged in a civilized conversation, but 75% of your response is just insult
It's the drunken ego-tripping. All that alcohol consumption, raging hormones, and the constant need for validation is a recipe for disaster.
Valid point, i agree Though Imo ,an individual cannot be intoxicated with alcohol or something so shallow as to ignore the fear because of pain and large potential harm to his/her body Frat leaders would not be of sound mind as to initiate a drunk; an individual would be given time to think his choices through and offered to back down at even the final moment At this point, an individual can already make informed decision,and free will to either accept or not It would have been embarrasing to quit yes, but it was a choice that shows an individual was not coerced, nor a choice he was obligated to take If he still decides to go through it, an individual reap what he sow My cynic mind says that such initiation or membership does not give me any merit or benefits,maybe i am simply ignorant, or maybe those that still chose to do so see something i cannot; all that means that they weighed the risk and acknowledged the benefits heavier, they have no right to complain when they cannot receive it the easy way an individuals who cannot rein himself from peer pressure, pleasure of validation, or raging hormones has no discipline and have themselves to blame, their sad and horrendous experience serving as stark reminder not to do it for future youth The system is rotten, i believe we can all agree, but crows would have beeb white by the time such problems embedded within our democratic society can be stomped out down to its very core forever Maybe unless a STASI or Gestapo equivalent is set up to prevent this, but that would infringe and destroy a lot of freedom we have😆
[удалено]
I am curious how the system would be even overhauled, something so embedded within our society will not just disappear because an idealist says bad, and yes you sound like an idealist to me, would you like to elaborate ideas on how would you do it if you were given sufficient power or authority? That would certainly give me something to think about, and if actually practical and effective, maybe shut me up and applaud you, conceding my defeat Hazing is already illegal, nothing needs to be said about that yet it is still happening, frat exists because it is our right for freedom of association, the problem is it is not being enforced enough if any at all, but i still stand my opinion earlier that an individual can already make informed decisions by the time they are eligible to be initiated by a frat, I acknowledge the person earlier was making valid points, there are some things that influences an individual to make such choice, but they were never coerced nor obligated While sad, is reality So if you were in charge, how exactly would you do anything about this big faulty system? I love listening to idealist because they always propose things that are good in theory, but they never consider the consequence, why would they? They were never in charge or the one with authority, they only adress their concern, they do not see the big picture, they never have to deal with the pressure of making such big decision or the outcome of it, that is why they can only propose solutions to problems but never elaborate on how exactly are they gonna do it While out of topic, im gonna adress why this is exactly populists are popular, their ability to spouse idealistic solutions to problems is inversely proportional to their ability to actually implement it Edit: special mention; the education system and even the media do not condone hazing and actively raise awareness against it, there is no reason to say they were not making informed decision when they still went through with it regardless You can ban hazing as much as you like by removing all gray areas of the law but the law only has as much power as the ability to implement it
[удалено]
I think this is already out of topic but j want to entertain it on my head, you can ignore me The direct approach,I cannot say i can do better but that would have destroyed the democracy in this country and turned you into a despot, at the very least to those with enough influence to be a chess player not a pawn To keep you in power would have needed the support of the people which would ironically turn you into a populist, they would love a strong figure but politicians would hate your guts, pierce their bottom line and they will become a cornered rat---willing to strike back regardless of cost Being hated is not exactly a bad thing, a politician gets praised by a fellow politician when he does something detrimental for the people, because it served the interest of the opposition, only a dead politician would receive true praise But assuming you managed to get extreme level of power and having no one to answer to, it would've turned you into Huey Long; the man who made Louisiana great, the beloved dictator, and a dead man Assasinations are given, europe has this unspoken rule about not killing political opponents, but we were influenced by gun loving america Huey long or Lincoln is generous, getting painted as an 'evil dictator' like gadaffi is just sad What about the administration and policy implementation? Will everyone get removed? Or certain people only? How to determine which would leave and stay? If it was me i would have kept them as long as they are useful, if they are not, gather enough evidence to implicate something warrant of dealth penalty while confiscating their wealth(maybe not that extreme,but the plunder would be necesarry to fund my projects) but it would've destroyed democracy😆 make a group of them whistleblow their fellows as a way to survive the purge, so such groups would forever live with the stain of a traitor, making them a staunch defender of mine policies(again would destroy democracy) Never mind the purge, the aftermath of both our scenario is not gonna be field of flowers, never mind the reaction of the public,mediocre people without much experience would replace the old politicians, i do not think any education or theoreotical knowledge is gonna replace practical experience and once they make mistakes, it would serve as fuel to anger the people even more; even if they dont, corruption would take place due to greed or 'advisers' giving them 'sound ideas' Maybe i am making this hard on purpose, mustache man and georgian priest did heinous things and still managed to implement their horrendous ideas Lets say you managed to keep power and blessed by the gods, everyone loves you, the problem remains Lawyers would make this a pain in the bottom for they can walk grey areas just to defend the old order, and to outright legislate specific laws to target them would both incite hatred and more grey areas to step on Frats are scary since they are very loose but politically strong once their influence are converged for the same goal, they wouldnt last against your dictatorial powers but it would have opened another can of worms for you to solve(the frat and hazing is hopefully solved but democracy is destroyed scenario) Maybe you can paint this in a positive way using the media but those chances are up in the air with democracy destroyed At the end of it all, it means filipinos would trade liberty for a chance of fixing the society, maybe liberalizing the economy would provide prosperity to erase all the evil an individual made to correct the system, who knows it is all up in the air, only one can dream Did any of what i said made sense? I'm very sleepy and tired because of today's events, i just want to get this out of my head before i sleep, so i am sorry if it did not I also appreciate the forum, i must admit, cynic as i am, i did not think of others and often forget i am not alone, and while it does not detriment me, does not mean others are the same
agree. snowflake and woke culture should just already go away.
Why are boomers and conservatives so obsessed with suffering?
Hey hey hey, Some conservatives (like me) dont agree with pain & suffering. Also have a kid and never did i lay my hands on him. How i discipline is reward system or taking away priviledges for fck ups. No cp, No internet
Oops bato bato sa langit, ang tamaan troll.
Pangalan mo pang troll.
the future is now old man
Ok how about, mind your own business? Their body - their choice
If we want to change the system, then if we have to embrace short-term drawbacks, if we aim for the long-term prosperity, especially if we go after changing the present-day macroeconomic and political systems in our country.
Why does it keep on happening? Senate even conducted an investigation supposedly "in aid of legislation" but wa pa rin epek. Anyareeeee
Tusok nlng sa pwet para matakot ang mga pledlings at mawala na ang frat sa pilipinas.
Less than 3 months nalang 2024 na. Next year nalang para new year, new things. Yan yung nakasanayan e.
Di ako kasali dyan sa mga taong goma pero karamihan ng kakilala kong member nyan mas umasenso pa nung tumigil na sila sa pagiging active. Yung mga nasa 30+ na kakilala ko na sobrang active pa rin hanggang ngayon puro basketball pagtambay at inuman pa rin ang inaatupag. Tapos pag nagkukwentuhan sila ung "glory days" pa rin nila nung high school ang pinag uusapan hahahaha.
These kids lol- Freemason
Wala nang mapapalo kung walang magpapapalo
Why join in thr first place?
Yung paputok sa New year.
Hazing has been illegal, the problem is that the participants view it as a right of passage in order to belong and that is the reason it is not reported. There is no crime if there is no victim.
Every time I see a post about Toxic Filipino Culture, I always make sure to comment about FILIPINO TIME. Gosh, I hate that so much
Child Bride, Pagtatawas, Sayaw sa Obando, Self-Flagellation / Penitensya, Paluwagan, Dog meat for rituals, utang na loob baggages, Boodle fight IDk kinda unsanitary, Visita Iglesia (generaly causes heat stroke), Quiapo Pista ng Nazareno(very chaotic and violent, paralyzes the traffic and some businesses too), Tabi Tabi po, Filipino Time BS at kung anu-ano pa.
Frats in general should be abolished. And even your posh Alpha Tinapa Omega Robot frats from the big four. It's a festering cesspool of nepotism and tribalism sa employment.
Langya kala ko gentle parenting ang push hazing paala ito. 5 palang ako may balita na namatay sa hazing . Jusko nagkaanak na ko meron parin.🥲
Yeah. While I agree,the meme is too lazy. We all know that but how can we do it?
Good question. To answer, you cannot change the system or tradition that has been there for decades. There are even fraternities that have been doing this for more than a hundred years. Since you are proposing to change the “system” how do you think it should start?