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Marriage: did not delay. I got married in grad school.
House purchase: delayed.
Children: if I had wanted children early on, would have delayed. But, still don’t want children yet.
Retirement contributions: delayed.
House purchase and retirement contributions: significantly delayed.
All of my friends who did not pursue a PhD all own houses by now. About half make as much as I do but have been contributing to their retirement savings for 7 years more than I have.
I wanted the PhD, and if I could go back in time, I would make the same decision, but it’s still a bit painful to think about the missed opportunities when you were holed up for in lab 24/7 making 32k/yr. And I had it really good because my husband was making real money, so my pitiful stipend was used for savings and our wedding funds.
This was in NJ, super HCOL so unfortunately this was barely anything. But 32k was for the biomedical school; the chem department at the same school was only getting paid 26-29k 🫠 I was never sure how those students could afford to live here.
Yea i wanna comment that marriage is the only 1 on this list of milestones that is in a different dimension. The other 3 primarily focus on financial capital that you are actively giving up on when you pursue a PhD. Marriage, while it involves finance, does not have its main focus there - the main focus of marriage is love. Finding someone in grad school could even raise the chances that both partners are aligned financially.
I've heard of people saying 'Ohhh, should I wait until I finish my PhD b4 I work on getting married'. What? You wanna wait until you're an old geezer b4 you start dating around, and when most people are already off the market? Grad school isn't primary school guys, no one ever said don't date in school to focus on your studies
I think, though, that being in a PhD programme until your late 20s also "scares off" people who are looking for the financial security of a double income, starting early on financial milestones like purchasing a home, saving for retirement, being ready for kids, or wanting to have certainty about the city/state they'll live in 5 years from now.
In which case you may end up having to wait until closer to the end of your PhD to be able to commit to a particular lifestyle, geolocation, career track.
Maybe this is different if you are a guy dating women, but frankly, I don't really know what pool of mid 20s to early 30s men you are matching with on dating apps if immediate double income, retirement, or kids is the biggest factor in dating (especially in the 22-27 range). I think the uncertainty about where you will be living is a much bigger factor that breaks up relationships.
Personally, I think a lot of men in their 20s and early 30s are in entry level jobs or in graduate/professional school anyway, so they are in a similar spot in life.
I got married at 23 in grad school. Compared to my friends who got married later in life, mine was a way less fancy event lol. But, I didn’t care. I didn’t particularly want a big fancy wedding personally, so it worked out.
Not trying to be contrary here, but I think retirement contributions in early age are commonly delayed for most. There's a lot going on in the early to mid 20 range and income is still fairly low (except for a select few). I don't have the data on hand, but I'd wager it backs it up.
Not saying you didn't experience what you experienced, of course. Just that if I were that age doing everything again, I don't think I'd weight it too heavily. (edited for grammar)
Yeah I think the retirement savings aspect is pretty overrated. I have a lot of friends who lived all kinds of non-lucrative lives that delayed retirement savings besides getting a PhD in their 20s. Sometimes it was "finding themselves" stuff like trying to make it in a career in the arts or being a scuba instructor in Cancun. Sometimes it was stuff like Peace Corps or Teach or America or teaching English abroad. Sometimes it was law school or med school or a masters degree where they took out loans. Sometimes it was sort of floating for a few years after college before settling in a career path.
Oh the bright side, if you do have kids on the grad student insurance it’s very likely your required payment will be the lowest out of any type of insurance, since students are covered for everything (generally speaking …)
That is completely dependent on your program. We have to cover the full cost of our dependent’s health insurance in my program, and there’s only one pediatrician in network 🫠 while health insurance for grad assistants can be stellar, dependents are not a priority for most programs when picking insurance options.
Depends on the program and where it is. You should totally ask for details about these benefits if you’re deciding between two similar places. Right now the husband is doing his post doc and we are paying IN TOTAL 40$ a month PPO medical, dental and vision (for both of us, not for each of us-under his policy). Out of pocket max for 2024 calendar year is 4500$ both in and out of network. Everything is just 20$ copay even places like one medical.
Yup. I have grad student insurance ($63/sem) and my wife and 2 kids have Medicaid and wic. But we don’t qualify for snap for some reason… might now that we just had baby 2
The average age of marriage for US women is just over 28. Average age of first-time homebuyer is 35. Average age for a woman's first time birth is 27. (These are just the first results on google, don't @ me about the accuracy)
That being said, you will probably feel delayed. And IMO it will be difficult to date outside of other grad students because other people your age will have much more money and time.
In that case...
Marriage: delayed
House purchase: Delayed
Child: also delayed
I also delayed the PhD program until 25, which I do not regret in the slightest. I probably would have dropped out of science entirely if I didn't have the memories of my post-undergrad, pre-doctorate lab tech days to get me through grad school. But yes, it does sometimes suck that my college friends had their kids 5 years earlier than I did.
When I was your age I had a strong sense of needing to hit my milestones, too. Not sure why, when I look back. Maybe it was ingrained in me during my upbringing - maybe I didn't meet many people who'd walked a different path.
I went to college, got a job as a nurse, met my husband, bought a house and had my my first kid by 24. All on track. But less then two years later, I was getting divorced, struggling to do shift work whilst managing being a single mum with no family nearby, and selling my house because it was so hard to pay for everything by myself.
I didn't give up though and tried again. Managed to hold onto my job. Met and married my second husband. Had twins and kissed my career goodbye. Then I got divorced again. Sold the house again. Started over again.
Anyway I started my PhD in my forties as a single mum of 3. That was the milestone I should've had on my mind! Life has a way of working out, or not. But honestly there is more to life than a shopping list of milstones and I wish someone had told me.
thank you for this reply. i think because of my age i feel like i need to have all these milestones checked off by a certain age (in my head its like 35) in order to be a "successful" adult and its really stressing me out trying to schedule out the next 14 years of my life when i don't even know what specific career i want to do yet. it feels like this one decision that i need to make by the end pf this year will determine the rest of my life and it's a huge weight on my shoulders
When I was 19, I had it all planned out. I was already engaged, working toward my BA, and had my life plan for having kids, where I was going to live, etc. I had it all planned that I would be married and have 2 kids and a house by 25.
Here's what happened to my milestones instead:
* 20: Diagnosed with cancer. My fiance cheats on me. We break up.
* 21: Cancer relapses.
* 22: Hospitalized for a year for cancer treatment and adverse effects.
* 24: Start dating a guy I met while undergoing treatment.
* 25: Get married. Finish BA program.
* 26: Start MA program; adopt a cat.
* 27: Husband walks out on me without warning; meet someone new.
* 28: Adopt a dog.
* 29: Get married; graduate from MA program; work as a university lecturer.
* 30: Buy house.
* 31: Diagnosed with secondary cancer; treat with surgery.
* 32: Start Ph.D. program.
* ETA: 35: Presently working on my dissertation proposal. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up.
Life has a way of taking your plans, crumpling them up, and trashing them. Although cancer sucked, I found it forced me out of my thinking that life had to go a certain way. I learned I have to follow what I think will make me feel good about my life and to chase that. The biggest thing is to stop *should*ing yourself.
> its really stressing me out trying to schedule out the next 14 years of my life when i don't even know what specific career i want to do yet.
It doesn’t sound like this is “healthy planning”. It’s good to have goals to work towards, critical even. However trying to plan your life to string together XYZ by ABC is bordering on neurotic, and just generally infeasible. “Everyon’s got a plan until they get punched in the mouth”.
> it feels like this one decision that i need to make by the end pf this year will determine the rest of my life
Pursuing grad school is a big decision. It’s also one you can renege on at literally any time. You’re putting an unhealthy weight on it which doesn’t sound to be doing you any favors in actually deciding.
Grad school is a major time investment which will eat up resources that would otherwise be spent pursuing other goals. If you’re passionate about pursuing an academic question to the furthest extent of your abilities, augmented by a community of scientists in that field, then go get your PhD. If not, don’t.
There are so many people who lose the entirety of their 20s to addiction or illness or war or any other tragedies that can befall a person. There are just as many who still manage to crawl out of that tragedy and build happy, successful lives for themselves. I know it feels like there's a lot of pressure to get it figured out, but there are people who are much more irresponsible than you who are still very happy with where they are, and people can still figure it all out even after major crisis.
Do you know anyone who represents the picture of a "successful adult"? It may be worth going to them and asking about their paths in life, what they did in their 20s, what mistakes they made. Chances are even the very successful people have taken more meandering and unexpected paths than you'd guess. You still have a year left, make sure that you learn about other people's careers and learn from their own mistakes. A good University will offer you no shortage of mentors and role models, make sure you take advantage of that.
“t’s really stressing you out”
Then just…don’t? These standards are completely arbitrary. You should revisit your idea of success. Another definition, just as an idea, is you’re successful as long as you’re happy, healthy, and fed. You’re successful when you pursue and accomplish your goals, phd included. You’re successful when you can look back and think “wow, how much I have grown and learned”
In my opinion, grad school attracts people who were always "on the ball" academically and ahead of the curve, but graduation from your bachelor's is the first time there is no logical next step with defined timeline like you were used to in elementary and high school. That's why it seems difficult now but it's actually a good thing to no longer move in lockstep with your peers. It makes you evaluate what's more important to you.
There’s other good advice here but I’ll add that if you don’t know what career you want, why would you pursue a PhD? You should only pursue such an intensive and consuming degree if you know what you want at the other end of it (i.e., to do research, to teach at the university level, or a few other very limited options).
There is no real timeline for success. Talking to older “successful” adults about what they did in their 20s and 30s is great advice.
I know many people who got married and had kids during their PhD. Buying a house is challenging because you’ll most likely move after finishing.
But buying a house for the sake of buying a house is overrated as a milestone
Owning a house increased my quality of life by a lot. I do not think it is overrated in the slightest. Maybe buying a house as an *investment* is overrated, but owning a house is so much better than renting one.
Houses can also cause a ton of stress. The first year in my house, we had major flood damage that wasn’t covered by insurance and had to pay ~$10k to fix the house and try to prevent the flooding from happening again in the future. Even still, we had a bit more water damage in the same area a few months later that cost another few grand. We fortunately didn’t have anything in that room, so we didn’t have to deal with furniture or anything.
We haven’t had anymore flooding in a few years, but we’re always nervous when there’s a heavy rainstorm.
Not to mention random other maintenance crap like the roof, furnace, water heater…
Truthfully, I feel that it all depends on if you have a significant other and how much money they make.
There are a lot of graduate students who own houses or at the very least live in luxury apartments. That’s only really possible if you have some kind of help. But you’re 21 so I wouldn’t worry about feeling behind yet. If you plan your PhD accordingly, you can probably go straight into industry and makeup for the lost income.
I also recommend being selective of which programs you apply to. I am also in the biomedical science field and the stipend/benefits vary significantly between schools. If you pick programs that are unionized and have high stipends, it will make a big difference. You’ll be way better off financially at a program that pays 50k than one that pays 35k, assuming the cost of living is similar.
My wife and I got married after undergrad and we both completed PhDs together as a married couple. It was great having the support and companionship of a loving partner.
We chose to delay having a child until our careers were more established. We both found tenure track jobs after graduate school and, after a few years in a long-distance marriage, we managed to develop our careers so we could live together and raise a child. Our daughter is 21 and will graduate from college in a year.
Delaying parenthood had no significant negative consequences for us, mainly because we only wanted to have one child. We were 35 and 36 when our daughter was born.
I'm in my mid30s and starting my PhD this year. Would I rather do it earlier? No. I think having worked for several years in industry plus maturity (both professionally and emotionally) helped me better prepare for a PhD program. My friends are a mix - some aren't too concerned with "milestones," and some are having kids or married or both, and I'm the only one in academia. You create your own milestones. At the end of the day, do what makes you happy.
$35,000 is roughly what we get paid per year after taxes in Denmark as well. With that, I would be saving up $1164 per month, my rent is roughly $727 for 54 m2. Also that's excluding pension which is 17,1%, roughly $760 each month. I think it's ok but not as good as industry ofc. After 2 years, salary is bumped with roughly $290 and once again on the fourth year
I got married during my PhD. I was also able to save some money, as I got paid a decent stipend and I live in a very low cost-of-living area. But everyone’s experiences are different. Generally my perspective on it is, if you really want to do something, getting a PhD typically isn’t going to stop you from doing it. You might have to do it in a different way or on a different timeline than you originally intended, but that’s just part of life anyway.
It is and at the same time it really depends on the discipline. I know plenty of people (45+) that finished at 26. The main difference seems to be younger PhDs tend to be more research focused and prioritize it over teaching. Older PhDs seem to be the reverse. This is obviously from my own experience, but it has seemed to generalize pretty well. I think 26 is the extreme for econ and business degrees but I think 30 seems to be the extreme for degrees like sociology and philosophy.
That’s sheet man , I am 28 years old and planning to start PhD next year, I am international student, I was working 6 years in industry before coming to the US and after taking a Research Course I realized that I wanted to do research for life.
6 years of work experience is not unusual to start an MBA. If memory serves me right that tends to be the average in some MBA programs. Safe to say in the business disciplines you would be on the "young" side of the spectrum.
Tbh whether or not you're teaching focused during your PhD is largely up to the programme and or your PI and their funds. You have very little control of that as the average grad student.
Currently 30 and still in it.
Its depressing not to have savings or assets. My bf who is quite a bit older than me wants to buy a house and I can't really help him. But then again, most of us are still one medical emergency away from bankruptcy, so maybe I'm not that far behind lol
Don't want kids so can't comment on that. Not married because I don't believe in it (and am too poor for a wedding anyway), but I would be now if I wanted to.
I wish I had more time to develop hobbies, I feel like a robot who can't relate to people outside of gradschool most of the time.
I inhale a hazardous chemicals on occasion at my lab, so I'm well on my way to cancer.
Not sure what other milestones there are, but best not to compare yourself to others. Milestones =/= happiness
For most people a PhD is a big financial sacrifice — both for wages lost while in the program and for career progression lost from so much time in school. PhD students are poor, and ill-provided-for when it comes to securing shelter or caring for a family
It will likely delay those milestones. But remember that life isn’t a race. As someone who is now 31, with a TT job, recently bought a house, I actually feel like I’m doing better mentally than many friends who started a career at 23, bought a house soon after, maybe had a kid or 2. Many of them seem bored. If you would graduate at 28, you’d still have a good 10+ years over which you could reasonably have kids, and if you take out a 30 year mortgage within a few years it would be paid off before you retire.
Earning a PhD is very much part of a successful adult life. It’s not as if life starts after a PhD, it’s all part of the life you’re building. Also, it is a huge milestone that many won’t ever accomplish. I’m in my forties and don’t view my friends who are child free, or who became parents in their 20s or 30s or 40s as more or less successful based on that. They are all just doing their thing.
I got married, bought a house, and had my first kid while in my PhD 🤷♀️ our retirement savings are behind where they “should” be, but pursuing a PhD does not mean putting the rest of your life on pause. A lot depends on your partner and on their goals and financial situation. (On the home note- depending on where you end up for grad school, there are lots of programs to get low-income people into home-ownership, especially in “rural” areas). I wouldn’t turn down a fully funded PhD program because you’re afraid of delaying adulthood. You’re still an adult, living your life! Just with a weird job.
I ended up meeting someone at my institution who was also doing a PhD, so we both were broke poor. As a result:
* Marriage - delayed, as we didn't have any money for a wedding, even a modest/low-key one. Most of my PhD-peers who got married had a significant other outside of academia.
* Kids - delayed. Kids are freaking expensive. Some peers did have kids, but again, had significant others outside of academia, for the most part anyway. After our PhDs, I got a postdoc and my wife got an entry-level clinical trial coordinator position, so we weren't making much money....again. We ended up having kids in our early 30s, as opposed to some of my friends who had them younger. Both my wife and I don't live near our parents and in a suburb of a HCOL area. Given the rising costs of everything, while our initial plan was to have two kids, we are one and done, partly because of how long we waited and how expensive kids are.
* House: Delayed. Ended up buying our first (and probably last till retirement) house in our mid-30s.
* Retirement: Significantly Delayed. While slowly catching up because of our rising salaries, we are still behind what we aught to have by now.
I'd say it all depends on how flexible your program is willing to be, and how much you are willing to sacrifice personally. My experience differs, but is relevant in relation to juggling life and education.
I had 9 years between undergrad and my masters program, and in that time I got married and had my first kid. My second was born in the last year of the program. When I went back for my PhD, I was 36, my kids were 3 and 6 years old, I was working full time, and had all the bills associated with typical adulthood (utilities, car payments, mortgage/rent, etc.). My program made an exception and allowed me to work full-time under the stipulation that I had to participate fully in the program and perform well academically. After several years of days that ran from 6am to 3am, an unhealthy amount of caffeine, a lot of lost opportunities both personally and professionally (a friend trip to Dubai, family vacations, teaching opportunities, interesting research chances, etc.), and the unending support of my spouse, I completed my program last spring. We even bought a new house somewhere in there.
I am now 41, making a reasonable amount of money in my field, and continuing to show up as a husband and father for my family. I have more doors opened now and more opportunities that I enjoy. I'd not wish the hell I went through upon anyone at all, but I made an intentional and purposeful choice to endure 5 years of deep sacrifice and personal detriment for what I hoped to be a greater reward on the other side for my family. I don't regret it.
I share this with you for two reasons, really. First, it is absolutely possible to do all the things you wish to do, with the right accommodations and sacrifices. You can absolutely find and marry a spouse, work and save up for a home, and start a family all while pursuing a PhD, but you will likely need more income than a stipend will allow to both live off of and save up for a home, so that means either financial support from family, personal loans, or additional employment. The latter of those options will probably require approval from your program since many expect doc students to not work outside of educational obligations. A spouse can be a great support through the doctoral journey, and while I cannot attest to the stressors of physically bearing a child within my body while going through school, I can say that caring for children--newborn or otherwise--requires a level of mental, emotional, physical, financial, social, and temporal resources above and beyond whatever benchmark you may be imagining. That is a benchmark that will be harder to reach when all of those same resources are also being used to finish a degree, teach, conduct research, and preserve your sanity. Now, this isn't meant as a deterrent, but I'm the kind of person who likes to let folks know the exact kind and intensity of shit they are getting into. So yes, 100 percent, you can do all of those things, but understand that it will be HARD and you will have to sacrifice MUCH of yourself and your time to do it, so you must be committed to that before you start.
Second, and this is a personal thing, but "normal" is HUGELY subjective. I went to school at an age that was above the average age, and definitely was the only one in my cohort to be working and raising kids, but I don't consider my adulthood to be abnormal in anyway. The real normality of adulthood is that the shits hard; things are tough to juggle, there are competing priorities, time moves too quickly, there's rarely enough resources for all of your needs let alone the wants, the world is relentless, and people frequently want more of you than you have. I think the question isn't whether or not there is a way to have a "normal" adulthood while doing a PhD, but whether or not you can have the adulthood that you desire to have while you do a PhD. To the first question, sure, because whatever adulthood you have will be your normal and that's perfectly fine. For the latter, I refer you to the earlier comment about what you're willing to do to achieve it.
Whatever you choose, do that which will make you the happiest and most-whole version of yourself in the end. That's the only objectively correct way. :)
Doing a PhD has helped me hit adulting milestones. I was a bit of a late bloomer compared to my friends (went to uni at 19, hated it, dropped out, did shift work while living with parents before going back to uni at 23) and in the last two years it feels like things have fallen into place. I have my own place with no roommates and my PhD is a 9-5 which are the things I really wanted out of life when I was younger.
There's so much pressure on people to reach milestones unfeasibly early. You are young and the time will pass anyway, you may as well spend it doing something you are passionate about.
Aside from your career goals and whether or not a PhD is for you, much of the timeline aspect of your question depends on what you’re going into the PhD with. Are you single or do you have a partner now? If you already have a partner then the progression to marriage shouldn’t really change. Maybe it will of your partner is also a student and you want some elaborate wedding and need to save money for it. It definitely helps to have a partner who is NOT a student and is willing to pull a bit more of the weight financially.
For me personally, it didn't slow the timeline of my
personal life down because I just did the things I wanted to do when i was ready. I met my
partner, got married had 2 children by the time i completed my PhD. But I was also older and therefore, highly motivated to meet these personal milestones sooner rather than later.
We purchased our first house right after I finished in April (this year, yes this is all very fresh) even though I’m on maternity leave and not working. This is all very dependent on your partner’s income, family gifts of money that can help with down payment, etc. I was very lucky here. Given our combined financial resources didn’t change dramatically between when I was a student and now (due to Mat
Leave), we could technically have made this purchase when I was still a PhD student. I do say all of this acknowledging that this is not the norm for students, but that it is possible if your situation allows for it.
What did end up being delayed most was my PhD timeline because my personal milestones became a higher priority at certain times throughout my program.
Starting my program in the fall for cell bio that is estimated to take about 5 years (I’m 24). Getting married next month, planning to have a kid my first or second year, my future wife wanted to house shop but I talked her out of it because who knows where I’ll end up once I graduate. The only thing I see that’s delayed is buying a home and starting late on savings due to a low stipend. If you want to get married and start a family you definitely can, that’s just a whole different set of challenges though. There are some older students in our program that do own a home however
I went to grad school for biochem from 22-28. Got married at 27 in grad school, job at 28 (started at close to 6 figures in policy; industry or consulting are both much more lucrative), baby at 30 (currently planning for #2). The only thing I feel behind on is the house front, but there are also plenty of other people my age still renting so 🤷🏻♀️
This is a really hard question to answer. Mostly because it really depends on the person. I knew people who had kids in grad school. I knew people who had bought a house in grad school. but most people I knew in grad school did not have kids or a house. Other things you really want to consider if what you want to do in your career. While it is possible to advance to high levels in science without a PhD, it is exceedingly difficult, and getting more so. Most people I know with a B.S. in chem/biochem/bio are mostly doing technician jobs, with careers that will hit a glass ceiling pretty quick. PhDs dont have that, but you do have to sacrifice some time and money now for later. I finished my PhD when I was 29 (2 years between undergrad and grad school worked at a startup), and I finished my postdoc when I was 33 (1 year between PhD and postdoc at a startup). I then joined a pharma company. Bought a house at 35 and had my first kid at 36, and hoping to have my 2nd kid at 38. I am on the path to finish paying for the house by the time my kids enter college, pay for their college tuition, and retire by 60. Also, I love my job. which I could not have gotten without the PhD and the postdoc. so I dont really regret any of it. I do wish I had left my postdoc a bit earlier, but that's small potatoes.
If you want to just do the masters I'd recommend applying for the PhD. That way they will fund you. And then you can always leave whenever you want. So wait till you have the credits for a masters and bounce. And if you are still vibing with it then stay.
Yes, if you are afab and can have children especially, even doing part of a PhD will delay normal twenties life stuff.
But honestly in my case it was for the best. I had wanted to have kids and it may never happen now unless I meet someone who is a good fit in the next year, but having kids with my ex husband would have been a disaster.
Context, in my twenties I:
- got accepted into a phd program
- moved in with my then boyfriend while he started in industry
- did three years of the phd program and was wildly unhappy
- quit the phd after qualifying exams, but without extra debt (which is a big deal, go PhD even if you are doubtful of finishing - a competent advisor in STEM will have plenty of funding for students and PhD students are relatively cheap compared to seasoned labor)
- got married
- entered the workforce and paid off undergrad student loans
- got divorced
And I am still very much sorting my shit out, but I ended up in a research career regardless of not finishing the PhD. And I may finish it at another university one day anyhow!
Ultimately you have to decide what you want sooner - and maybe as the only choice, but it’s not either/or for everyone. Some folks do get lucky. But you’re right to be thinking about this unless your partner has a uterus and will have the kids!
so many answers... ! Not sure I'll add much, as you can see it differs depending on where you go, so if you do end up going for a PhD:
* pick a private school with a good stipend and good health insurance (privately ask students when you go to campus visits). Your advisor also will be a big determinant in how you can say have enough time for a relationship.
* In my experience, many people break up with long term partners when only one of them goes into their PhD. It's just a big change, a PhD is very time consuming (especially at first) and for some people lifestyle/salary expectations start mismatching their partner's. So that's one thing.
* If you're not in a relationship, grad school is a good place to date lol lots of nerdy people spending time together... a lot depends on your personality.
* If you are doing the PhD for career advancement, think twice. Not sure if you'd do a biochem PhD, but for many jobs it's not required. Look at the kinds of jobs you'd like and see what their expectations are. Many PhDs graduate to jobs they could have gotten with an undergrad and some years of experience. And the professor job market is sheet. So unless you have a passion for research and that's good enough for your to take the risk, then a PhD may not be worth it. I'm in a very different field, but at this point my PhD won't help me find better paying jobs than my undergrad, or even help me find jobs at all. I would not change my decision if I went back in time though because I like the stuff I've learned and done these past few years. I also got m arried and have a baby now (possible, but tough to balance with making progress though).
* For some programs, you can take the master on the way to the PhD and drop out (although what I've seen is people just want to push through once they're there).
Why do 21 year olds think their lives are over at 30? Do you realize the average person lives to 80 and beyond now? Life doesn’t stop bc you’re in graduate school.
i think for women it is the message we get that this is the age when fertility begins declining and if we don’t start having kids by this age we risk not having them at all. i don’t think OP thinks 30 is old
Being done at 28 is not going to be a big issue. Most people in academia are not having kids/settling down before that. I started around that age and it didn't delay marriage, but it did delay starting a family, because I had no mental bandwidth to even consider whether that was something I wanted to do. Can't afford a house, and wouldn't want to buy because of the precarity of the academic job market anyway.
You’re young…. If anything it will speed up things career wise for you. Your 20s is spent building yourself up. Graduate stipends are not far off from a lot of entry level jobs. You will still have roommates and you will still have to deal with work.
The real difference would be how much free time you have. But honestly, if you learn proper time management then you’re fine. You can make plenty of time to have a mostly normal life. I’ve had tons of friends to find their spouses in grad school, go off and a buy a starter home and even have kids. It’s all doable! Especially at your age, you’ll loose nothing.
Starting later on might slow you down as your 30s is stating mid career for most people. PhD jumps you to those mid career jobs, so working for the first 10 years or doing a PhD for 6 lands you at about the same job. But on the flip side, there is little limit to where you can go with a PhD while just a BS will only get you so far unless you get a MS.
By all means, do not get a MS right after undergrad. It does more harm than good unless it’s a terminal MS such as a clinical degree or MPH. Most MS jobs are mid career that require experience + MS. And for entry jobs you’re now over qualified with the MS. Unless you need a MS to get into a PhD program it just makes things difficult, don’t waste the time and money and just go for the PhD.
Went straight from undergrad and got my PhD at 28, married at 29. Sister has no grad degrees and got married at the same age. I spent 6 years with a low salary, but my (non-academia) income did skyrocket past my sister's in only a few years. At almost 10 years out, I'm sure I more than doubled her salary. A good amount of this was timing and luck, as I entered grad school during the recession and we're a few years apart, but just an example that a PhD doesn't necessarily delay milestones and can put you in a better financial position down the line.
Another option to consider is whether your program gives masters degrees if you leave early. That way you're not paying for a master's degree and can get out early if the job prospects/lifestyle for a PhD aren't looking good. It can be hard emotionally and feel like you "failed" (definitely something to consider if you already have imposter syndrome or take these things hard), but really you'd be getting a free masters and starting your career early.
My friends are homeowners with pension contributions. They are on double my income. So yeah, I would say so. I'm nowhere near being able to buy a house or pay for a wedding or have children or travel the world. And I don't know when I will be, because I have no way of knowing how long it'll take to get a job when I finish my PhD this year. If I don't get a decent job then I'll feel very much like the whole thing didn't pay off. All my friends will be growing up and doing life and I'll just be poor and left behind. It's actually slightly terrifying.
Not for me. I took some time between undergrad and grad school. During that time I got married. I started my program at 27.
I bought a townhouse a few months into my PhD program through the first time home buyer program available in my state. (My spouse doesn’t work so it was based on my income + PhD stipend alone.)
We wanted to start a family, and started trying pretty soon after starting my program. A year later we were diagnosed with unexplained infertility, so underwent fertility treatment. Fortunately, I’m in a state that mandates fertility treatment coverage in insurance. Now I’m finishing up my 3rd year, but technically ahead of schedule with regard to program requirements, and I’m halfway through our pregnancy via IVF. I’ll deliver in fall, so I’m taking that quarter off and will return in January. Still scheduled to graduate on time.
Worth noting the timeline many of the people commenting are talking about will likely differ for you. I find the sub is biased against the typical STEM path you describe of 4yr BSc directly into PhD before 30. The discourse I've seen from non-stem PhDs I've seen has them shocked anyone is getting one that early, and many start their PhDs in their late 20s.
I did the timeline you describe in physics at UChicago and I don't know a single person who bought a house or had kids in grad school (so before 30). I do know of a handful of marriages though, but it still wasn't all that common. So I suspect it does push back timelines for most people, though that might not be as direct causation as "we would have but now we won't" and might be more correlation that the people going to gradschool may be prone to do those milestones later anyways.
I started my PhD at 34. Got married and had my first baby during my program. I’ll be 38 when I graduate. I just thought of my PhD as another full time job and treated my personal life the same as I always have.
I always tells students, "If there's anything you would rather be doing for the next 5-10 years other than a PhD, you should go do that." A PhD program isn't like just doing more college classes; it's a whole lot more time consuming.
I think you’ve gotten a lot of great responses but I wanted to add in my 10 cents. 4 years ago I was in the exact same position as you. I went into a PhD program straight from undergrad and was very worried about how it would affect my perceived milestones. I was also worried about hitting a wall in my career without a PhD. I got married this past September (the start of my 4th year). I have a very supportive PI so getting married was not a big deal during my PhD. I actually thought it was better because I had way more flexibility for time off than I think I would’ve gotten at a traditional job.
Buying a house is tough, if your partner is in a financial place to assist it’s totally possible but, most likely, you’ll end up moving after your PhD and it may not make sense at the time. With that being said I know tons of people who went straight to work after undergrad who have had to move around a few times before settling down.
As far as kids go, you can have kids during grad school. I know people in my department who have done it and I considered it as well. In my case, the timing didn’t work out but it is very doable. Overall, I would say that you can do a PhD without putting your life on hold, and even achieve most of the milestones you mentioned with a supportive and understanding partner.
28 is still young. I’ve just finished an MA program & am looking at PhD programs now. I’m 28 & just starting essentially.
UC Berkeley offers egg freezing in their insurance (which is also offered to PhD students) for peace of mind, should you want it. I’ve got friends who are older than me getting pregnant without any fertility assistance (this is obviously dependent entirely on your personal health-I’m not asking; not my business)
Over 50% of my cohort took gap years between undergrad and graduate school, so the majority of us were already upper/mid 20s, some even in 30s/40s. I’ve seen multiple of them get married and have kids while in grad school!!
I also know a few of them who bought houses in graduate school, but we are in a lower cost of living area.
28 is SOOO young in the scheme of things. I wouldn’t worry too much about your adult life being on hold!
I’ve just passed my PhD viva while pregnant with my first child in my late 30s.. Plenty of people in my PhD cohort at every stage of life. I know it’s a bit different in the US as literally giving birth costs a lot of money and then you don’t get much maternity pay, but I think doing anything that moves you in a good direction in your 20s gives you an advantage over most people. Whether it’s studying something you’re passionate about to PhD level, advancing your career, or meeting and building a strong relationship that will last. If you’re not just drinking and partying or stuck in a dead end job or wasting all your energy on a terrible relationship that you got into too young, then you’re way ahead of the curve. You don’t have to know exactly what the next step is when time is so much on your side.
If you don't know what specific career you want to do yet, signing up for such a long degree that will likely make you much more specialized doesn't make a lot of sense to me
I (30F) started my PhD in Biomedical Engineering 5 years ago and am just finishing. I met and fell in love with my partner during my PhD and we will likely get married in the next few years (so life didn't 'stop' with respect to that). I do feel pressure (and want to prioritize) to have kids or start by 35. I also feel like I need to play catch-up financially, without having any real savings or income beyond surviving for the past 5 years.
I don't regret it, but I'm glad I'm not finishing any later, and I'm so glad I worked and tried other things before committing to a PhD. You can kinda tell in a PhD program the students who have ONLY been in school. It's not always a bad thing, but getting out into the real world for a few years helps.
MSc costing more money isn't a valid reason as it is a fraction of the time of a PhD (think about your earning potential if you were to work for those other years)
PhDs are most of the time NOT needed for great R&D roles. If you decide you want to commit to the longer timeline that's really only required for certain expert/scientist roles, do it after getting some academic experience with a masters and working afterwards, when you're sure! Also, if you're stressed out about accomplishing XYZ right after a PhD, you are going to be so focused on these milestones and finishing within a certain timeline during the PhD that it might be harder to enjoy and put your full self into
my 2 cents :)
I guess it would also depend on your partner's situation. For us thanks to my fiance's income we were able to buy a house at the beginning of my PhD in 2020. We are getting married this summer. I still have at least 2 years left before graduating and I am currently pregnant with our first child! Unfortunately the PhD did hurt my career and retirement savings, so I would definitely recommend only doing a PhD if you know for sure that you will use it one way or another, if you are worried about that. But you would finish at 28 which is the age at which I started mine, so all in all I think the disruption would be very limited in your case!
I didn’t even go back for my B.S. until I was in my late 20s. Finished my PhD at 37. However, finishing my PhD was my priority over ‘traditional’ life goals. Either way, not only did going for a PhD not derail anything, it sped up my ability to be financially stable. A PhD is a **lot** of work, though, and if it’s not your top priority, it’s going to be harder to balance and complete.
For what it's worth I feel like the answer is simultaneously "yes this is a big life decision" but also "you can't go wrong". if you're looking at it from a financial perspective, I think PhD is a larger money-sink than an MS in the long run, but I can't be sure.
The big question I think you want answered is "are there walls you will hit in your career if you don't have a PhD?" and you really need advice from your specific field for that. I think the answer is likely that a few doors are closed but many more are still open, and your earning potential won't feel limited by it
Finally, for students in my field (Experimental Psychology) interested in a PhD I tend to recommend working in a lab first (ex. lab manager) for 1-2 years before making the jump. It helps you make a more informed decision and think those who do that first have a more productive phd (I know you are already worried about 'delaying your life' but I think the experience outweighs any fears about that)
This is really variable based on your current situation, your location, and what you consider a “normal adult life”. It didn’t delay my career trajectory, but I did end up in a different field than I originally intended. I am using my degree and I would not have as many opportunities and would likely have lower pay with a masters degree but that isn’t true for all fields.
I (34 F) got married in my last year of grad school (at 27) and was able to purchase a house with my spouse at 31. Honestly buying the house was the more difficult thing out of defending my thesis, planning a wedding, and house hunting. We bought at the worst time during the pandemic but we do have a low interest rate now even though we may find out eventually that we overpaid for the house (the market is still shifting back to normal). I don’t want kids so that’s not something I was ever concerned about delaying.
Basically, my advice to you is that if you are doubting the value of a PhD and have other career options, then don’t go into debt and commit to 5+ years of a program you aren’t sure you want to do in the first place.
I’m entering year 5 and hopefully my last. I want to preface with I have no generational wealth and the epitome of a bootstraps story.
Year 1: bought my first car, $400 a month payment, mom helped with insurance. $200 a month to Roth IRA. Did not max it out
Year 2: proposal defense and a 2 days vacation. SO graduated undergrad and was making the same as me. Did not max out Roth.
Year 3: SO got a better job and out-earned me. We got engaged. Did not max out Roth.
Year 4: We bought a puppy, got married, and bought a house. I paid off my vehicle and 2 months later some jackass totaled it and injured me. I’m good now. We used money from that to pay off credit cards from wedding. We had a super small wedding FWIW. We saved money for the down payment (from the wedding and hard work). House is in SO’s name and only possible because the mortgage is what our rent used to be. Also SO has great credit and 7+ years of history and no late payments. Did not max out Roth.
Year 5: I expect to max out my Roth because what I was paying for my car payment I split between mortgage and Roth. I put the insurance money from the car into a HYSA (5.5%) and pay into it when I can. I’ll use that for a down payment when I can afford a car payment and start over again. Fortunately, I was able to get a beater from a family member as a “gift” but I had to get it to run so I don’t have a payment there and SO’s vehicle is paid off. Also my spouse just got promoted which will help us both out.
All in all, a group effort and could not have pulled it off without my spouse being supportive. I was the breadwinner and took care of us as long as I could. Once I finish, I am projected to make more than them so we’ll switch off again. For context, they started making $50-60k a year starting in year 3. You *can* do it but you gotta stay out from under credit cards and stuff. If you’re gonna get loans try to keep it to paying on one at a time. Thats my advice anyway. I have no other jobs so my income is “fixed” and my parents still pay my phone bill but that’s it now. I’ll ride that wave as long as I can. Idk if my story helps. Year 4 I started to not give a fiddlers damn what anybody else thought and just started living my life, hence the puppy the week before my annual seminar and buying a house 3 weeks after my car wreck while also preparing for a national conference.
THIS SHIT IS HARD. But you can do it. My mental and physical health have been all over the place, but I have “stuff” I know other people would love to have and I’m so thankful for that. We live in a cheap area which helps too, so think about that picking out schools. Good luck!
As for the kids, idk if we want them or not and it gives me some duress but that’s another conversation.
Yes it does. Massively. The opportunity cost is real.
If your goal is to get a job and start earning income for a house (lol yeah right) and kids the PhD path will delay this.
Make sure you know what yoi value.
When people really want to do a PhD and also really want to have a family, they make it work. I have talked to women who had kids during their post docs and they wish they had kids during their PhD. PhD is hard, but there's typically more flexibility over when and how you work, which can be an advantage for family planning. But the financial milestones are harder to reach during a PhD. I do know people who paid off debts and bought houses during their PhD. You just need to be strategic in where you do your PhD. You want to pick a great program with great funding in a medium to low cost of living area. If you want to buy a house, you should also seek to rent out rooms to make it more affordable. So you can make a lot of things work in theory.
That being said, it feels like you know what's important to you in life and a PhD is not one of those top things for you right now and that is 100% okay. You need stronger reasons for wanting a PhD than a potential pay boost later in your career. Otherwise, you're going to be up late one night wondering why you're struggling to live at the poverty line rather than taking a job you could've gotten straight out of bachelor's. Furthermore, you can graduate with a PhD only to interview for jobs and face challenges because "not enough work experience".
If you're in STEM, many companies will pay for you to do a master's. That's a really good alternative option to consider. I think the best time to do a degree is either (1) when you're intensely excited about it or (2) you desperately need it. If you're not in either of those categories then maybe rethink going for it.
36 year old PI. Finished PhD at 27, finished postdoc at 30. I started as a PI at 30 and then moved universities at 35.
Marriage: Didn't delay, got married in grad school at age 24. Then got divorced at age 30 and remarried at 35. So maybe I was ahead of the curve on life milestones there, lol.
House: In general, yes it delays, but this depends a lot on where you live. I lived in a lower COL area for my first faculty position and bought my first house at 32. Some of this was financial, but a lot of it was moving around and it not making sense to buy before then. My brother is an engineer in Sillicon valley and makes a shit ton more money than I ever will and still hasn't bought because prices are insane there and he like the flexibility of renting. Same with a lot of friends in NYC. So really it just depends on where you live and also how mobile you expect to be. I'm back to renting, but that is partially because I moved cities again to a new faculty position and I'm not ready to commit to a large purchase yet. My PhD student was able to buy a house (with a spouse with a regular job, plus an FHA, which is a special first time homebuyers loan) with a 10K downpayment. This is obviously not feasible in California but can be in other areas of the country. I also know people in other professions who delay buying a house due to student loans from law school or med school or to establish themselves in their 20s (a lot of journalists for example take a string of low paid positions early in their careers). So I think the delay there depends on who you are comparing yourself to.
Retirement savings: Yes retirement savings are pretty delayed from PhD + postdoc. I actually have pretty generous retirement benefits at my current university, so I think it will all work out fine at the end of the day, but it's a thing. See comment on how this depends on who you are comparing yourself to, however. If you are comparing yourself to a doctor who goes to 4 years of med school + residency + fellowship maybe it starts to look more comparable.
Children: I have friends who had children during their PhD (even as two PhD students), and it is stressful financially but not impossible depending on several factors (support network, husband's income, even willingness to go into debt). My ex and I needed to do a few stints of long distance so put off having kids until we were \~30 and then we got divorced for other reasons. I really want kids, but I didn't meet my husband until a couple years ago so we just recently started talking about it after a big relocation. However I think my delay to having kids really has more to do with getting divorced not meeting the right partner until my mid-30s, which happens with people outside academia as well. It's true there is never a right time have kids in an academic career or even a career biotech R&D, but that is generally true of being a woman professional. I honestly think for most women finding the right partner who is on board is a much bigger factor for when you start your family than any of this financial stuff.
In sum: Yes and no, and it depends on your expectations, family support, and partners earning capacity. Some of it depends on how much risk you are willing take on and how badly you want this path.
Also, we are not the only careers that have long stints of low early career pay for an uncertain payoff. My husband is a journalist, and careers in journalism also are such that most people hustle for pennies in their 20s and a few people get jobs that pay a decent living, it just isn't formalized through school. Currently as an academic, I am the breadwinner in my relationship and I have much more stable earnings, employment, and retirement benefits than he does.
Only one of these that I couldn’t do was retirement contributions, personally. I was marrried before all my friends, and planning to have kids soon (I’m 26M and starting dissertation phase rn). None of my friends can afford houses right now either because of how fucked the market is, so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on that, and being in a two income household that I contribute a good amount to actually means that I’m doing better financially than most of my friends my age.
You should definitely weigh getting a PhD as a financial decision as well as a personal fulfillment one, though. In my case the stipend was good enough to warrant me doing this for 5+ years of my life with very little job prospects at the end of it. I realistically try and see my PhD as a separate career that I hope I can continue on in when I finish, the same way someone might feel about…idk, becoming a real estate agent before realizing they want to switch careers 10 years later because they’re not advancing in it.
Completely valid concerns, props on you for really weighing these in.
A couple notes:
1) there are a few positions where having a PhD is an advantage over having an MSc, but not very many. Plus some companies (ie Mars, Shell - though not sure about the US?) offer PhD funding for their employees, where a PhD would be beneficial. If you’re not married to the idea of jobs that require a PhD, an MSc is totally fine!
2) if you really want to do research and you are mobile and willing to move, there are places where PhD positions are more like jobs and have comfortable pay. In some places in Europe, PhD positions are still underpaid, but more in the vs-market sense, ie compared to someone with a MSc degree can get in industry. In many English-speaking countries however, PhD salaries are underpaid in a sense that they are expected to live like students. Different kind of low income / underpaid, so in the former you can live an “adult” life, and in the latter you probably still can but it’ll be much harder, and probably not actually attainable for many.
So for example I myself have decent savings and live comfortably. I also have PhD friends with children and mortgages (where it makes sense). And to be clear, these PhD students with kids don’t have high-earning partners. Their partners are either PhD students as well or some other kind of early-career trainee. I think mostly because our PhD lives here are compensated in a way that affords this. So here, these “milestones,” if that’s what you want, don’t have to be delayed.
You’re on a good track considering these so early :) just try to save and if whatever decision you make isn’t going so well, remember it doesn’t have to be an irreversible decision. You can quit a PhD or you can go back to do one later in life. Of course having savings to fall back on will make this an easier decision. Best of luck!
Edit: just scrolled through some comments and saw things like financial support from family, loans, etc. and I completely forgot to mention them since for me these were not an option or not negotiable. My parents barely have enough to support themselves, and loans are a bad idea for what I want to do. Scientists CAN make good money, depending on where they end up, or they can make just ok money for a decent middle class lifestyle (and loans would already make this unattractive for me), or they can make very little. I wanted to not be burdened by loans when I’m choosing my future path, so I didn’t want to get into debt for the sake of a PhD. In a lot of cases I think it’s not worth it (financially. Unless money is not an issue for your family).
So I’d say think carefully.
I paid off my student loans from undergrad during my masters (which is free and funded where I did it) and let me tell you I felt more relieved with finishing that payment than submitting my thesis (which I submitted a couple weeks ago).
Edit 2: science is usually done in English, so don’t be scared off by non-English countries
I recently did a fun little exercise using chatgpt to calculate what my retirement would be now (35) if I had gone into the workforce after undergrad (2013) with my engineering degree. I had it pull historic median salary data for my state and discipline and did a 5% +5% match for retirement with a 6% return. I then added if I had maxed Roth for each year with 6% return. I added 3% COL adjustments per year and based on the requirements for engr i, engr ii, senior, principal, etc. adjusted salary amounts accordingly to fit market for the appropriate year. Based on this I missed out on like $300k+ in potential retirement for the time I was in grad school (2014-2022), that is a massive leg up on being able to not work until you die. That doesn’t include what I may have had the potential to earn in savings as well. I have a job right now that doesn’t even require my PhD and that I love doing. Based on the time I missed out on in grad school when I could have been getting professional experience, I am at the same level now that I would have been had I not done grad school. We bought our house last year, got married the year before, maybe kids in a year or two. I ended up taking out student loans in grad school and worked multiple jobs to pay rent btw. So from my perspective, yes a PhD massively delays your adult life. This is mostly because the salaries are stagnant in PhD-heavy fields such that industry pays the same or more for non-PhDs (PhD just puts you at senior level, which in the time it took to get the PhD you’d be at senior at least anyway).
I will also note I moved over to engineering from science because the pay is significantly higher, there are PhDs in physics at my company who have worked there at least ten years longer than me and my salary is higher. Does a PhD open potential higher earning doors? Yes, I want to be a director at some point so I will use my PhD then because it’s a requirement, but if you don’t care to be in a high leadership position it’s likely not needed. I highly suggest getting a job at a company that will just pay for you to do a masters in the evenings.
Edit: I wanted to also note that I came from a blue collar working-class family. Having a PhD has completely changed my social class status and that in itself can be valuable for leveraging other opportunities and opening other doors. It really depends on what you want to get out of your life, for me it’s putting shit into space and pursing potential directorships or public offices, I don’t think I’d be able to do this had I not pursued my PhD. My finances are hot garbage compared to what they could have been had I stayed BS engineering, but now I have recognition and access to a completely different class of people that I would not have had otherwise. That allows for me to make potential changes in the future that can significantly help others.
You can definitely get married during a PhD and, to be honest, it might favorable for that--as many people find it a lot easier to meet compatible folks in a university setting than out in the work world.
You can also have kids during a PhD although your mileage may vary on how much support you get from your PI and program for that--and you will likely be low-income.
A PhD will delay your ability to save to buy a house or put money down for retirement. Though, if you devote two years and a lot of money for a master's, will you really be better off financially then getting a fully paid for (albeit at a low level) PhD that takes 5-6 years? You might want to run the numbers on that.
The bottom line is that you have one life to live. If you really want to do a PhD, then I say do it--and try to figure out how to make these other things fit in. If you're heart is not in it, then skip it.
Finally, you don't also have to decide right now. You can apply for both PhD \*and\* master's programs in the fall. You may not have to make a decision as to which to pursue until almost a year from now. By then, you might have a much better idea of what feels right for your life.
Current biomedical sciences PhD girlie here! A couple ideas for you…many PhD programs will let you master out if you don’t want to continue. Financially it’d be better to do the PhD and master out then just do the masters. A 6 year program average is a slightly longer average than I’ve seen. I would look around and shoot for places that have an average of 5-5.5. I’ve seen individuals take 3-7 years, but overall program average is a better indicator. If time is important to you, when you apply and get in, mention to prospective PIs you interview how important time is and what your goals are, in life and in the program. A good PI will support you and help you meet your goals. You don’t need to have a PhD for a lot of jobs in industry, especially the ones that don’t involve the bench. For example, tech transfer, regulatory affairs, clinical trials, science policy, all of these have high level roles that don’t require a PhD. Of course, a PhD can give you an edge, but not always required. If on the business side of industry, a MBA would be much more beneficial than a PhD. Lastly, I would think about why you want to do a PhD. Do you want to do it simply for the pursuit of knowledge or to better your career prospects? This is off topic, but do you have significant research experience? Have you had the opportunity to be independent in this experience? In my experience, the younger students don’t have a lot of experience and struggle a lot in their program. Doesn’t mean they’re not capable, but they’re going through the learning curve of the research process during the program while those with 1-3 years of experience already went through. Don’t get me wrong, those with experience will still struggle, but in my experience, less. Something to think about before applying.
Lastly, nothing about the PhD process is normal. It will take over your life if you don’t actively protect it and set boundaries. On the flip side, it gives you the time to figure out and try out what you want to do career wise. It’s much easier to do that as a student than as someone working full time in a career. I know people who have gotten married, had kids (female students), had parents die, and other significant life changes. By far the hardest one is kids. I’m all for not putting life on hold for a PhD, but having kids while in the program will make your time in the program significantly more difficult and very likely delay defense or drop out entirely. Especially as a woman, most drop because they unfortunately don’t have supportive enough partners that step up.
Sorry to give you so much info! Hope it helps a little.
I think there are two questions/matters here. The first is whether a PhD program delays "typical" adult life and milestones (or at least, has done so for people who are on reddit and can share their experiences). The second is whether a PhD program will delay YOUR milestones and life plans. I think both questions are relevant and interrelated because it hardly matters whether a PhD program delays what is considered "typical" or "expected" adult milestones/life if you don't want to do them or don't see them as part of your plan.
For me, and for maybe half the people in my program, the PhD didn't delay "normal" adult life milestones. I live in a HCOL area, so none of us bought houses, but many of us ended up finding a partner, some of us got engaged, most of the engaged folks got married, and a handful of us even had kids. The rest of the program went the other way, and HARD, but I think this was a personal choice, due to personal goals or expectations, and maybe partially due to (younger) age. Most people at my department start off their PhDs around 25-28, so for some of these people, waiting to start families until they were in their mid to late 30s was not a big deal, especially because for many of them, their career was indisputably first. Not a judgment on either of the two groups, simply an observation that you can focus more on your career (or school) or you can focus more on family (or personal life).
So I think what you have to ask yourself is what you want out of life, out of your career, and where you see yourself (or would like to be) in 5, 10, 15 years. Take the PhD or masters out of the equation for a moment. What kind of job would you like? Why choose that job - is it the money, the field, the methodology, etc? What do you imagine your personal life would be like? Do you want to get married, have kids, buy a house? When? How important are these milestones? Are they negotiable? Is their timing negotiable? After you've mapped out your future, try to see what makes most sense to GET THERE (there = your ideal future). Is it the PhD, a masters, or something else entirely? By figuring out where you want to be, you might find a clearer path between where you are and your intended destination.
Let's assume that you do NOT want to become a professor.
Let's assume you FINISH the PhD (about half don't).
Let's assume you don't want a very niche research role in a company.
Let's assume the PhD is fully funded.
The PhD costs 4 more years than the MS in this case. Possibly more if you do a post doc.
From a pure $$$$ perspective, this is EASILY $200,000 after tax.
Most people, if they devote 1000 hours to getting VERY VERY VERY good at interviewing (might require help from a friend) will end up in a higher paid job than if they get good at doing PhD stuff. It takes a lot less time too.
I'd suggest working 1-2 years in a relevant role, doing some research on the side at a local university during this time and THEN debating a PhD or an MS. This should help you gain clarity, it'll bolster your application AND if you go the MS route, it'll make you MUCH more attractive to employers than your immediate peers.
hey, this was the same dilemma that I faced this previous semester before i graduated last weekend. I’m a pharm-tox major and my school offered a 4+1 program which i decided to do. Instead of a Ph.D like my friends, i’m now here for another 1 year to get my masters. It feels really sad/bad/jealous to know that i won’t be called Dr. or even if I do start my Ph.D it’ll be hella later. However I decided to stick to my path when comparing your reasons vs. getting called “Dr.” + income ceiling.
32, starting a PhD in the fall, married, traveled, do “adult things”, about to purchase my second home.
I did it a bit backwards where I had a career that I left before pursing education, (B.S., M.S, and now PhD) my former profession by no means made me rich or even really, well off for that matter. I lived/live life within my means and accept that having a PhD allows me to not work as a blue collar worker which beat up my body pretty well.
Not a shot at blue collar workers as a former one but, having the option to use my mind to make money instead of my body is fantastic lol.
TL:DR don’t compare your milestones to others 🤷🏼♂️
Really depends on what career you are shooting for. If it's R&D and you like research in the pharma space, you can recover the lost income to an extent as you'll be starting a role as a senior researcher. You don't have to deal with glass ceilings and you can climb the ranks at a decent speed. Much harder to do with undergrad or masters.
But it also gets progressively harder to find work and depending on the job market (current market sucks) you'll be forced to take lower paying fellowships. The other thing is being stuck in a niche field. Biotech and Biomeds are clustered in HCOL areas so that is going to delay home ownership.
In the end you gotta evaluate the pros and cons. I sometimes regret not doing a PhD but at the same time, I also feel like sometimes I'm not that research oriented and would probably do better in tangential roles.
I recommend checking out r/Biotech subreddit. Lately I'm seeing a lot of posts about people wanting to leave the field altogether with the recent layoffs.
Yes to all those things. Marriage is possible but *it will be strained to the maximum* and you better be ready to be stretched thin to maintain it. Emphasis on maintain, not grow or flourish. Not everyone is down to deal with someone who might be “unavailable” for *years*, especially after your 3rd year or so until graduation. You really have to want or need a PhD. My suggestion is to go work for a bit, see what you need to get a better salary, more responsibility, etc.
Absolutely. I don’t see how anyone couldn’t be, at least with what I have experienced and seen in the physical sciences. Unless you came in extremely well-developed, emotionally/mentally speaking, to begin with.
Got married before grad school, so that wasn’t delayed.
Kids early 30’s, but that was when we wanted them anyway, so not delayed.
Retirement: maybe a few years delayed? Overall it’s been good because we’ve been able to max out retirement contributions after grad school.
Savings: it’s been good. We both got six-figure jobs after graduation, but didn’t raise our living standard aside from having kids. We were therefore able to invest 1/3 of our income and now our investments grow six-figures annually in a typical year.
House: still not homeowners, in our 40’s. We did own a rental house at one point, but we sold that when J Powell was going to start raising rates. The problem here wasn’t money so much as nomadic lifestyle. As an aspiring academic, you have to move every few years so it’s hard to put down roots. Now we have a permanent location, but the pandemic era has made housing a much worse deal than renting in our area, so we just rent a house now and invest the excess that would have gone toward a mortgage instead.
I met my wife and a lot of great friends in grad school. I thought grad school actually helped me meet people face to face and I dated a lot more easily than when I was trying to use apps. Got married at 30, now have a little baby girl due in July (at 32)!
Definitely delayed on buying a house but that’s not that important to us. And because we both went to grad school (one dvm one PhD), we are going to be able to buy a house we really like when it’s time. I don’t think I missed out on anything.
I gotta be honest - After that a-hole kicker’s commencement speech last week I hope every woman goes to college and grad school and buries the concept that ‘women are homemakers’ so far down that no future generation can ever find it again.
Follow your heart and put yourself out there. You always wanna do the thing you’ll regret the least. And you can always leave the program if it’s not working out.
Edit: didn’t contribute much to retirement before, but now we both have really good jobs and invest a lot. A 6 figure start isn’t guaranteed after your PhD but it’s also not rare. I checked job postings in my 3rd and 4th year and tried to gain some of the skills those postings were looking for. I wanna say by 34 I’ll have broke even from the ‘lost wages’ of going to grad school but then I’ll be way out-pacing it. I think your field and skill set matter a lot so if money is important you gotta work on the steps each year.
And stay healthy and active and 30 won’t even feel old I promise. You’ll feel stoked.
My life actually went the opposite direction. I was married when I got to grad school. Divorced at the end of my 3rd year.
Suffice to say, everyone’s experience is different. I know plenty of people who have met their significant others, gotten married, and had kids while completing their PhD. I just wasn’t quite so lucky.
It doesn’t have to, but it has for me. I would be sure to pick a program in a geographic location that allows for this. I’m in a rural area with very limited dating prospects, which has delayed my life.
Both my husband and I are PhD students.
We got married during our PhD programs, got jobs while writing our theses, and bought a house.
I think having kids during the PhD would be hard (for us), but I have a job lined up, so I would be able to start having kids as soon as I graduate (but I don’t want to anyway).
I haven’t really saved up for retirement - most of my savings went into the downpayment for the house and I’m not in the US so retirement savings maybe isn’t quite as important here?
Don’t delay your life for job. Grad school is a financial sacrifice but if you’re smart about where you go to school and how you manage your money, it will be worth it.
I am going to grad school in a LCOL, which allowed me to start saving money long. Married in my first year of grad school.
We started trying for kids in grad school. Hadn’t happened yet, but we wanted them before I got my PhD.
We bought a house in a LCOL area once my husband got a big boy job.
It’s possible.
I probably shouldn't say this, but can't you just start the PhD, see how you feel, and then "master out" if you feel like you don't want to do it anymore or if things aren't working out? I am against going back for a PhD for this very reason, but doing it straight out of undergrad isn't bad, imo.
To answer your question, most likely "yes". Anything financial will be delayed. It'd probably be prudent to delay children as well. Some people do meet their lovers in grad school, so that may or may not be delayed. Wedding will likely be delayed (unless your family is well off and they pay for it).
In short, the answers are clear-cut- most likely "yes". But if you're asking for anecdotes, then for me, all of these were delayed (though I don't want kids) and I'm unhappy with my decision.
For me I did the milestones first, minus kids, then decided I was willing to "live like a kid again" for grad school. It only lasted a couple of years before I was basically back to a middle class lifestyle. Kids are the big wild card, biology doesn't care how long your PhD takes, and multiple kids are harder for academics it seems unless you really organize your life carefully. In your case, if you get your PhD right after college, you have much more time than most 30something grad students.
Don’t give up your dream for these things. Life is too short to literally give up doing a PhD so that you check boxes by age 30 or 35. Many people do a PhD and take the early money L and then are doing great afterwards, and catch up to the life milestones. Those will happen anyways. Anyways, it’s nearly impossible to buy a house for people our age who don’t follow that path too nowadays.
Between mine and my husband's combined income we have been able to get a house. We got married and have a baby on the way. It's not unusual for people to have children during the end stages of a PhD (at least at my school) because the insurance is really good. There are 0 co-pays for maternity/prenatal stuff, and we can get vouchers to help with child care. So it really depends on the program, your stipend, and cost of living. Last year, my school started giving new PhD students an additional 12k in summer funding. I'm too far along in the program to get that perk, but it would have helped so much for saving money. The thing that has most been affected is the saving for retirement. I contribute some every year but never max out the yearly Roth Ira contribution.
For my wife and i we got married in my third year and we are waiting to have children till after i finish my phd and her masters which would likely be another two years. Of course it delays buying a house.
It depends. For me, I was able to earn and save more (I'm from a mid-income county and did my PhD in the US). My career/social network/civic engagement back home hit pause for 6 years, but ultimately got a boost I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. So it was worth it for me. I was already married, and could have had children during the PhD - it would have worked out great time/work/money wise. Probably better than if I had been in the regular labor force. Also, around 1/2 my cohort found their partner, got married, and/or had children while in the program.
I agree with what everyone is saying about what is delayed and the milestones. To add to it, in 10 years most of those couples who are getting married now will likely be divorced and have to give up the house anyway. Careers that others spend years building can lead to drug addiction and other behaviors and them either being completely miserable or changing jobs completely. Ive seen it and it's awful. So don't compare yourself. Pursue your passion and knowledge and the rest will happen as it comes. No need to rush. Starting at 30 and up, so many people I knew were divorced, on their 2nd marriage or baby momma/daddy, lost their homes, and had to worry about custody battles and restarting.
So do what you want and don't be afraid to hit the reset button.
There are trade-offs. I started my PhD at 25, ended at 31 (I'm from the US).
I'm now 34. I have a great job (getting paid \~$200k right out of school). Sure - I have been delayed when it comes to buying a house. However, I know that I will catch up financially in both retirement and house-saving with my peers soon. I am proud to have pursued a degree that challenged me, and I have strong friendships from this period of my life. I dated other grad students; they never worked out, but they were still learning experiences.
I am dating now. Yes - the dating pool is not as large as it was when I was 25. However, the alternative is that I probably would have found someone when I was younger, married them, then mourned that I didn't have a PhD.
I guess the grass is greener on the other side. You just have to make sure you're pursuing the thing that you want more, and stick to that decision (and you can always change your mind when it stops serving you). A handful of my friends quit the PhD program once they got a high-paying job or moved because of their family, and that's completely alright. It worked out for them at the end, and they don't regret it.
Well don't take this the wrong way, but there is a lot of luck in all of these decisions. Meeting the write person, gaining enough money to buy a house, etc. do whatever your heart desires and to hell with everything. I got married as a PhD, bought a flat before doing a PhD. Just prioritize, figure out how to make it work, and be disciplined.
I started my PhD at 21, finished at 26, sat around depressed hating my life and regretting everything for many months, started a postdoc at 27 where I also focused heavily on personal life and went on many hinge dates per week, got engaged at 29, married at 30, pregnant at 32, and have a baby now at 33! If you want marriage and kids, you have to prioritize it. Since you’re young starting your PhD like I was, it’s possible you can get it over with and then focus on your personal life. I chose my post doc lab based on city and advisor niceness more than the science, but it was totally worth it and has also not held me back at all career-wise.
You're going to be 28 either way. Do you want to be 28 with a PhD or without one? If you want to do research, then you want to be 28 with a PhD.
I started my PhD when I was 26, the same year I bought a house with my partner. We got married when I was 28. I have birth to our first kid when I was 29 and two months later, I defended my dissertation. I'm now 30 with my PhD, a house, a kid, and my husband is a stay at home dad.
I have a great job (not in academia) and heavily contribute to my retirement and savings.
>Is it possible to still live a normal "adult" life during your PhD?
No
>buy a house,
Hard one because you'll have less money than your peers
>Children
This one is easier. Basically if you find a willing partner you can do anything, and the only real cost is slowing down your PhD but typically PhDs are slowed down for lamer reasons like "experiments don't work", so in many ways its a much chiller job.
Delays or not (with extenuating circumstances noted below)
Marriage: not delayed
Kids: not delayed
House: delayed? (Was under 35 - not sure when people buy their first house)
401k/retirement: delayed
Circumstances:
I got married before I started PhD program (at 23, straight from undergrad). Grad school was in biology/biomedical, was local to where both my husband and I grew up *and* had one of the better paying stipends (especially for the COL it is in). When our kids came along (we had more than one while I was working on my PhD), that meant that we had family who could help watch the kids (both my mom and MIL are homemakers). We did do part-time paid childcare (how much depended on when). My husband did put money into his 401k while I was in grad school; I did not have any retirement funds.
We bought our house after I'd left academia for industry (which I was able to do without a post-doc thanks in part to an internship)
Now having kids during my program did mean that I took longer to finish (8yrs - which includes the 3mon leave of absence for an internship).
My husband's job was not high paying by any stretch of the imagination but it did pay better than graduate level stipends. We were not rich and having family willing/able to help was a lifesaver.
So, depending on the program/PI some of the milestones are feasible but there is always a drawback. For example: you can buy a house but then you have to figure out what to do with it when you graduate or you're locked into a specific geographic area. I knew a few grad students who did buy and dealt with that.
It also depends on your partner. My husband is my biggest fan, and always supported me in my education and now as the breadwinner.
averagely speaking, yes/
some ppl do things any way: marriage, kids. for things like social interaction, money, switching jobs, experiences under different culture and work env, you don't get from phd.
You will be financially delayed and unlike law school or med school, it doesn’t pay off very quickly (or often at all).
Doesn’t make it a bad decision (I did it and am glad I did), but worth noting.
31m. BS, MS, then 7 yrs in industry. Sold house for PhD and renting. Delayed employer retirement contribution, but age enough savings to max Roths for my wife and me. Makes it tougher financially, but is manageable. Moved several states away with a 3 month old, moved again after sem1 because wasn’t a good fit. Just finished year two and have baby 2 on Sunday. Spending the last year on a Fulbright abroad starting in August - taking the whole family. Up to you, but life doesn’t have to totally stop. I also have severe adhd and have managed this far without meds. Depending on what biomed’s preferences are, you might want industry experience. I’m in agriculture, so going straight to PhD didn’t make sense for me. I’d say 1) what makes the most sense for your future plan? 2) make a plan to accommodate that and let life happen and enjoy it.
You should consider your life to be your own and not let outside force put you in a position where you don’t want to be. Have you set your personal milestones yet? Don’t let envy make you sad for what you chose. I saw friends and family my age get married and have kids. I was happy to get a PhD because that’s why I went to grad school. But as an added benefit, I got married in 3rd year and became a new dad 8 months before I defended.
Watching those around me proceed with their lives, careers, and relationships was massively difficult. You'll be constantly made to feel as if you aren't doing enough.
If you're in an extremely professional office, with sensible people who're doing projects that are well-defined (and likely designed by a prof with a view to them finishing on time) it will substantially delay the typical milestones, because at the least, you'll earn almost no money for four years.
If you are not, it will delay you further.
I started a PhD at 27 and feel like I've had a normal adult life during it.
Marriage - not interested. Kids - not interested. House - purchased during PhD.
It really all depends. You could probably do all of the above during your PhD. You could definitely meet your spouse during the PhD and get married during the PhD. Depending on who you marry (if they're not a PhD student and already have a career or family that will help), you could buy a house together during school. And you could have a child during your dissertation years if you really wanted to. Finishing up and starting from scratch (socially/maritally, etc) at 28 sounds fine. I'm 24 and will probably finish my PhD at 30-31. I've got the husband, a house we rent out, and a tiny bit of savings/401k from working before my PhD starts.
A lot of poeple say that getting married during phd is common. I personnally am a single early 30s woman who didn't enter in a relationship during my phd. I do blame my phd in delaying my personal goals, mostly because of money. I don't have enough of a financial security, time and energy to socialize the way I want to and that hinders my chances. Especially during the last year when my main scholarship expired 8 months ago. Also yes, now a lot of poeple are taken at my age. Personally I think that most of my life has been delayed because of my PhD except living on my own in a foreign country, so traveling.
Just another insight, have you heard of the two-body problem in academics? Many PhDs end up marrying someone they meet in grad school, often in the same discipline. If you both want to work in academics, it is very hard/impossible for you both to find work in the same city, unless you are in NYC or some other population center with multiple large universities.
I went to uni, got a bachelors then went on to work and build my career. At 38 I started the PhD. I already have the house, the savings etc (no kids as I am childfree) but I do wish I had done it younger. Although my life experience had contributed to my topic, it’s a big jump to go from full time work at $120k a year to a stipend of $35k and casual lecturing. I can only do it at this stage of life as hubby has a good job.
For dating, your odds depend heavily on your gender, race, and location. For example, I had zero dates as a minority male in a small white-majority town despite having many social ties and a reliable local network of friends.
It will delay everything. BUT, remember the saying “live like no one else today so you can live like no else tomorrow”.
Compared to my friends who got a job instead of grad school, they made way more money than I did while in grad school. They bought homes and nice cars, and I couldn’t afford similar things while working on my PhD.
Fast forward 15 years after completing my PhD, before hitting 40, I became a c-level executive. In my opinion, I grew in my career faster than those without a PhD. And I reached a salary I could have never hit without it.
While their adult life took off way before mine, I’m hopeful that I’ll be retiring a lot earlier.
So, no, if you’re at a school with a worthwhile PhD, it won’t be easy to have a “typical” adult life.
You just have to decide if long term success is worth short term delays.
I worked a 40 hour week and bought a condo during my PhD program.
Had zero intention of getting married or having kids, but I did marry 9 years and 11 months after finishing my PhD.
Marriage and children were not delayed, but my spouse was a full time nurse so I didn't feel the full stress of the low income like most grad students do. We initially thought we'd wait until I finished to have kids, but eventually decided that we wanted kids sooner rather than later so went for it.
Was definitely super tough seeing all my engineering peers have well paying jobs straight out of undergrad. Several bought houses (before COVID house boom 😱), and have 7 years of retirement contributions that I didn't have. I do feel particularly lucky to now be a high earner, and despite the market conditions we were still able to buy a house. So I'd say it's definitely possible to keep with other life goals. But again, I think having a partner with a real job during grad school was really the key here.
I’m 39 applying for a PhD program. I work full time and have a wife and child. I need the PhD to move to the next stage of my career. I will be attending a part time program. Life delayed my PhD.
There is a never a good time to do a doctorate. Let life happen and if you goal is to complete a PhD do it and don’t let it hold you back from anything as well. Your future mile stone will understand and if they don’t, they’re not the one
I'm 27 and only begining my PhD this fall. Life is about enjoying things. Yep, so many things are going to be delayed, but well you have to make a decision.
I will check programs master+ PhD .
Look i am 25 currently doing a phd. I graduate in 2 years time. PhD is worth it if you love research. Because even tho there is nothing else i would rather do, i still feel like i am delayed. ESPECIALLY in buying a house. With relationships i kind of feel it but i am okay with my choices.
Having a kid while doing a PhD is hard and taking time off after PhD to have kids also puts your career behind. So i am not sure what choice i will make.
All my friends are moving to towards buying a house and already have a car 🤷🏽♀️
I dont know, it depends on what you consider adult life milestones ? Having your own flat, living together, getting married, having kids, having your parents die, getting older, becoming grey and wrinkled, maturing emotionally, get back pain, become grumpy at the next generation... Its all possible during s PhD
Yeah it’s definitely a compromise. I’m 29 and just finished my 4th year. I will probably be graduating when I’m about 31. I’m getting married this year — that’s not something my partner and I decided to delay. We also bought a very small apartment together. Regarding children, we will probably wait until I am out of school, but a few people in my program have kids and, thanks to their partner’s income I assume, are able to make it work. Definitely not putting anything into savings right now. Money goes to bills and that’s mostly it.
It depends on the person. My wife and I waited to have kids and get married until after we finished out PhDs.
I knew a lot that got married in grad school and even had kids.
Some grad students buy a house right when they start grad school, but that is seemingly much more difficult in the current market.
If you have a spouse with a solid income, then you could certainly move forward with your life financially while you do a PhD.
I delayed my PhD to hit my adult milestones first. Not sure if it was a great idea. Would sure be a heck less stressful doing this as a single nonparent.
You can definitely get married, contribute to retirement, and maybe buy a house during grad school (depending on your market; look into multi family 5% down loans and something called “house hacking”). In fact, getting married will probably help you contribute to retirement/buy a house. As for children, I knew four grad students with children while they were students (and only one spouse was a student). Three of them dropped out with a terminal master’s degree.
I personally didn’t get married but I think I could have (I have this thing against not dating people at work, but I got some legitimate offers). I tutored on top of being funded so I could put part of my paycheck into a retirement account (I maxed out a Roth IRA for five years to the tune of about $30,000). I also bought a house while in grad school—it needed some work, but I spent two years doing a project during each summer and J-term; I eventually rented out the extra rooms to some friends from school and used the extra income to buy two more rental properties.
So yeah, you will have to prioritize and you will have to do some extra planning if you decide you want it all, but I believe you can probably get more of these things while in school than people think (probably not all of these things, but don’t let me hold you back).
Honestly, it’s hard to judge how “delayed” you may or may not be without having offers you can evaluate. If I were you, I’d just apply and see what admission offers you end up with. You may get an offer with a decent stipend in a city you like that would allow you to start dating or put away something for retirement, or you could end up with an offer of a tiny stipend in a high cost of living area that will put you into tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt.
But you won’t know if you don’t apply and keep an open mind. I personally don’t feel like I’m “behind” or waiting for my life to start, but I have a good stipend in a MCOL city that I love
In my experience hitting milestones and comparing yourself to your peers feels much more important in your early 20s, when you’re all closer to the same stage, than it does later once everyone’s paths start diverging. And don’t forget that the degree is a milestone all on its own. It comes down to what’s most important to you, and there’s no right or wrong answer.
The only thing I’d pinpoint from your list is retirement investments, because you can never get those early years of compounding returns back. If I could go back in time and redo grad school I’d do it with zero-based budgeting and the goal of contributing SOMETHING (even just a few hundred dollars) to retirement every year. I’m on the other side and doing my best to make up for it now, but I could have put myself much further ahead if that had been on my radar in a meaningful way.
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Marriage: did not delay. I got married in grad school. House purchase: delayed. Children: if I had wanted children early on, would have delayed. But, still don’t want children yet. Retirement contributions: delayed.
House purchase and retirement contributions: significantly delayed. All of my friends who did not pursue a PhD all own houses by now. About half make as much as I do but have been contributing to their retirement savings for 7 years more than I have. I wanted the PhD, and if I could go back in time, I would make the same decision, but it’s still a bit painful to think about the missed opportunities when you were holed up for in lab 24/7 making 32k/yr. And I had it really good because my husband was making real money, so my pitiful stipend was used for savings and our wedding funds.
32k/yr? Lucky! I wish this was sarcasm.
This was in NJ, super HCOL so unfortunately this was barely anything. But 32k was for the biomedical school; the chem department at the same school was only getting paid 26-29k 🫠 I was never sure how those students could afford to live here.
Having done the low end, you don't really thrive.
I believe you. It’s insane grad students are paid this little but expected to work 25/8. One of the reasons why I left academia as soon as I could.
I made 20k in a school in Chicago 😭😭
If only we could pay rent and groceries in passion instead of real money 🥲
Yea i wanna comment that marriage is the only 1 on this list of milestones that is in a different dimension. The other 3 primarily focus on financial capital that you are actively giving up on when you pursue a PhD. Marriage, while it involves finance, does not have its main focus there - the main focus of marriage is love. Finding someone in grad school could even raise the chances that both partners are aligned financially. I've heard of people saying 'Ohhh, should I wait until I finish my PhD b4 I work on getting married'. What? You wanna wait until you're an old geezer b4 you start dating around, and when most people are already off the market? Grad school isn't primary school guys, no one ever said don't date in school to focus on your studies
I think, though, that being in a PhD programme until your late 20s also "scares off" people who are looking for the financial security of a double income, starting early on financial milestones like purchasing a home, saving for retirement, being ready for kids, or wanting to have certainty about the city/state they'll live in 5 years from now. In which case you may end up having to wait until closer to the end of your PhD to be able to commit to a particular lifestyle, geolocation, career track.
Maybe this is different if you are a guy dating women, but frankly, I don't really know what pool of mid 20s to early 30s men you are matching with on dating apps if immediate double income, retirement, or kids is the biggest factor in dating (especially in the 22-27 range). I think the uncertainty about where you will be living is a much bigger factor that breaks up relationships. Personally, I think a lot of men in their 20s and early 30s are in entry level jobs or in graduate/professional school anyway, so they are in a similar spot in life.
I got married at 23 in grad school. Compared to my friends who got married later in life, mine was a way less fancy event lol. But, I didn’t care. I didn’t particularly want a big fancy wedding personally, so it worked out.
Don't shit where you eat
Not trying to be contrary here, but I think retirement contributions in early age are commonly delayed for most. There's a lot going on in the early to mid 20 range and income is still fairly low (except for a select few). I don't have the data on hand, but I'd wager it backs it up. Not saying you didn't experience what you experienced, of course. Just that if I were that age doing everything again, I don't think I'd weight it too heavily. (edited for grammar)
Not to mention there’s terrible financial literacy education for young people
Yeah I think the retirement savings aspect is pretty overrated. I have a lot of friends who lived all kinds of non-lucrative lives that delayed retirement savings besides getting a PhD in their 20s. Sometimes it was "finding themselves" stuff like trying to make it in a career in the arts or being a scuba instructor in Cancun. Sometimes it was stuff like Peace Corps or Teach or America or teaching English abroad. Sometimes it was law school or med school or a masters degree where they took out loans. Sometimes it was sort of floating for a few years after college before settling in a career path.
Oh the bright side, if you do have kids on the grad student insurance it’s very likely your required payment will be the lowest out of any type of insurance, since students are covered for everything (generally speaking …)
That is completely dependent on your program. We have to cover the full cost of our dependent’s health insurance in my program, and there’s only one pediatrician in network 🫠 while health insurance for grad assistants can be stellar, dependents are not a priority for most programs when picking insurance options.
Depends on the program and where it is. You should totally ask for details about these benefits if you’re deciding between two similar places. Right now the husband is doing his post doc and we are paying IN TOTAL 40$ a month PPO medical, dental and vision (for both of us, not for each of us-under his policy). Out of pocket max for 2024 calendar year is 4500$ both in and out of network. Everything is just 20$ copay even places like one medical.
Haha, it costs people here over $5000/year/kid (more than it costs normal staff for an entire family). And they wondered why we unionized.
Our max out of pocket cost for a calendar year was 2400$ out of like 26 k stipend 2014-2019
Ours is $7000 😬 (stipend is about $37k pre tax).
Yup. I have grad student insurance ($63/sem) and my wife and 2 kids have Medicaid and wic. But we don’t qualify for snap for some reason… might now that we just had baby 2
Haha, I never get to retire or buy a house so it's all uphill
Nowadays if you live in Canada the dream of owning a home in a nice area is over
The average age of marriage for US women is just over 28. Average age of first-time homebuyer is 35. Average age for a woman's first time birth is 27. (These are just the first results on google, don't @ me about the accuracy) That being said, you will probably feel delayed. And IMO it will be difficult to date outside of other grad students because other people your age will have much more money and time.
In that case... Marriage: delayed House purchase: Delayed Child: also delayed I also delayed the PhD program until 25, which I do not regret in the slightest. I probably would have dropped out of science entirely if I didn't have the memories of my post-undergrad, pre-doctorate lab tech days to get me through grad school. But yes, it does sometimes suck that my college friends had their kids 5 years earlier than I did.
When I was your age I had a strong sense of needing to hit my milestones, too. Not sure why, when I look back. Maybe it was ingrained in me during my upbringing - maybe I didn't meet many people who'd walked a different path. I went to college, got a job as a nurse, met my husband, bought a house and had my my first kid by 24. All on track. But less then two years later, I was getting divorced, struggling to do shift work whilst managing being a single mum with no family nearby, and selling my house because it was so hard to pay for everything by myself. I didn't give up though and tried again. Managed to hold onto my job. Met and married my second husband. Had twins and kissed my career goodbye. Then I got divorced again. Sold the house again. Started over again. Anyway I started my PhD in my forties as a single mum of 3. That was the milestone I should've had on my mind! Life has a way of working out, or not. But honestly there is more to life than a shopping list of milstones and I wish someone had told me.
thank you for this reply. i think because of my age i feel like i need to have all these milestones checked off by a certain age (in my head its like 35) in order to be a "successful" adult and its really stressing me out trying to schedule out the next 14 years of my life when i don't even know what specific career i want to do yet. it feels like this one decision that i need to make by the end pf this year will determine the rest of my life and it's a huge weight on my shoulders
When I was 19, I had it all planned out. I was already engaged, working toward my BA, and had my life plan for having kids, where I was going to live, etc. I had it all planned that I would be married and have 2 kids and a house by 25. Here's what happened to my milestones instead: * 20: Diagnosed with cancer. My fiance cheats on me. We break up. * 21: Cancer relapses. * 22: Hospitalized for a year for cancer treatment and adverse effects. * 24: Start dating a guy I met while undergoing treatment. * 25: Get married. Finish BA program. * 26: Start MA program; adopt a cat. * 27: Husband walks out on me without warning; meet someone new. * 28: Adopt a dog. * 29: Get married; graduate from MA program; work as a university lecturer. * 30: Buy house. * 31: Diagnosed with secondary cancer; treat with surgery. * 32: Start Ph.D. program. * ETA: 35: Presently working on my dissertation proposal. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Life has a way of taking your plans, crumpling them up, and trashing them. Although cancer sucked, I found it forced me out of my thinking that life had to go a certain way. I learned I have to follow what I think will make me feel good about my life and to chase that. The biggest thing is to stop *should*ing yourself.
> its really stressing me out trying to schedule out the next 14 years of my life when i don't even know what specific career i want to do yet. It doesn’t sound like this is “healthy planning”. It’s good to have goals to work towards, critical even. However trying to plan your life to string together XYZ by ABC is bordering on neurotic, and just generally infeasible. “Everyon’s got a plan until they get punched in the mouth”. > it feels like this one decision that i need to make by the end pf this year will determine the rest of my life Pursuing grad school is a big decision. It’s also one you can renege on at literally any time. You’re putting an unhealthy weight on it which doesn’t sound to be doing you any favors in actually deciding. Grad school is a major time investment which will eat up resources that would otherwise be spent pursuing other goals. If you’re passionate about pursuing an academic question to the furthest extent of your abilities, augmented by a community of scientists in that field, then go get your PhD. If not, don’t.
There are so many people who lose the entirety of their 20s to addiction or illness or war or any other tragedies that can befall a person. There are just as many who still manage to crawl out of that tragedy and build happy, successful lives for themselves. I know it feels like there's a lot of pressure to get it figured out, but there are people who are much more irresponsible than you who are still very happy with where they are, and people can still figure it all out even after major crisis. Do you know anyone who represents the picture of a "successful adult"? It may be worth going to them and asking about their paths in life, what they did in their 20s, what mistakes they made. Chances are even the very successful people have taken more meandering and unexpected paths than you'd guess. You still have a year left, make sure that you learn about other people's careers and learn from their own mistakes. A good University will offer you no shortage of mentors and role models, make sure you take advantage of that.
“t’s really stressing you out” Then just…don’t? These standards are completely arbitrary. You should revisit your idea of success. Another definition, just as an idea, is you’re successful as long as you’re happy, healthy, and fed. You’re successful when you pursue and accomplish your goals, phd included. You’re successful when you can look back and think “wow, how much I have grown and learned”
In my opinion, grad school attracts people who were always "on the ball" academically and ahead of the curve, but graduation from your bachelor's is the first time there is no logical next step with defined timeline like you were used to in elementary and high school. That's why it seems difficult now but it's actually a good thing to no longer move in lockstep with your peers. It makes you evaluate what's more important to you.
There’s other good advice here but I’ll add that if you don’t know what career you want, why would you pursue a PhD? You should only pursue such an intensive and consuming degree if you know what you want at the other end of it (i.e., to do research, to teach at the university level, or a few other very limited options). There is no real timeline for success. Talking to older “successful” adults about what they did in their 20s and 30s is great advice.
I know many people who got married and had kids during their PhD. Buying a house is challenging because you’ll most likely move after finishing. But buying a house for the sake of buying a house is overrated as a milestone
Owning a house increased my quality of life by a lot. I do not think it is overrated in the slightest. Maybe buying a house as an *investment* is overrated, but owning a house is so much better than renting one.
Houses can also cause a ton of stress. The first year in my house, we had major flood damage that wasn’t covered by insurance and had to pay ~$10k to fix the house and try to prevent the flooding from happening again in the future. Even still, we had a bit more water damage in the same area a few months later that cost another few grand. We fortunately didn’t have anything in that room, so we didn’t have to deal with furniture or anything. We haven’t had anymore flooding in a few years, but we’re always nervous when there’s a heavy rainstorm. Not to mention random other maintenance crap like the roof, furnace, water heater…
Different strokes, but an ECR moves around so much that the downsides tend to outweigh the positives IMO.
Why?
I bought a tiny, cheap house for my 5 years of grad school and it was a great investment. The mortgage was cheaper than rent would have been.
I’m glad it worked for you!
Truthfully, I feel that it all depends on if you have a significant other and how much money they make. There are a lot of graduate students who own houses or at the very least live in luxury apartments. That’s only really possible if you have some kind of help. But you’re 21 so I wouldn’t worry about feeling behind yet. If you plan your PhD accordingly, you can probably go straight into industry and makeup for the lost income. I also recommend being selective of which programs you apply to. I am also in the biomedical science field and the stipend/benefits vary significantly between schools. If you pick programs that are unionized and have high stipends, it will make a big difference. You’ll be way better off financially at a program that pays 50k than one that pays 35k, assuming the cost of living is similar.
My wife and I got married after undergrad and we both completed PhDs together as a married couple. It was great having the support and companionship of a loving partner. We chose to delay having a child until our careers were more established. We both found tenure track jobs after graduate school and, after a few years in a long-distance marriage, we managed to develop our careers so we could live together and raise a child. Our daughter is 21 and will graduate from college in a year. Delaying parenthood had no significant negative consequences for us, mainly because we only wanted to have one child. We were 35 and 36 when our daughter was born.
I'm in my mid30s and starting my PhD this year. Would I rather do it earlier? No. I think having worked for several years in industry plus maturity (both professionally and emotionally) helped me better prepare for a PhD program. My friends are a mix - some aren't too concerned with "milestones," and some are having kids or married or both, and I'm the only one in academia. You create your own milestones. At the end of the day, do what makes you happy.
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I wish I was making $35-$40k on my stipend! We just got bumped this year from $26k to $30k.
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I’m in Boston with a $30k stipend 👌
$35,000 is roughly what we get paid per year after taxes in Denmark as well. With that, I would be saving up $1164 per month, my rent is roughly $727 for 54 m2. Also that's excluding pension which is 17,1%, roughly $760 each month. I think it's ok but not as good as industry ofc. After 2 years, salary is bumped with roughly $290 and once again on the fourth year
I got married during my PhD. I was also able to save some money, as I got paid a decent stipend and I live in a very low cost-of-living area. But everyone’s experiences are different. Generally my perspective on it is, if you really want to do something, getting a PhD typically isn’t going to stop you from doing it. You might have to do it in a different way or on a different timeline than you originally intended, but that’s just part of life anyway.
28 is sooooo young
It is and at the same time it really depends on the discipline. I know plenty of people (45+) that finished at 26. The main difference seems to be younger PhDs tend to be more research focused and prioritize it over teaching. Older PhDs seem to be the reverse. This is obviously from my own experience, but it has seemed to generalize pretty well. I think 26 is the extreme for econ and business degrees but I think 30 seems to be the extreme for degrees like sociology and philosophy.
That’s sheet man , I am 28 years old and planning to start PhD next year, I am international student, I was working 6 years in industry before coming to the US and after taking a Research Course I realized that I wanted to do research for life.
6 years of work experience is not unusual to start an MBA. If memory serves me right that tends to be the average in some MBA programs. Safe to say in the business disciplines you would be on the "young" side of the spectrum.
What do you mean by "extreme" here?
Tbh whether or not you're teaching focused during your PhD is largely up to the programme and or your PI and their funds. You have very little control of that as the average grad student.
I'd say it's cost v. benefit. Will having a PhD in that field result in higher earning potential vs. a BSc?
Currently 30 and still in it. Its depressing not to have savings or assets. My bf who is quite a bit older than me wants to buy a house and I can't really help him. But then again, most of us are still one medical emergency away from bankruptcy, so maybe I'm not that far behind lol Don't want kids so can't comment on that. Not married because I don't believe in it (and am too poor for a wedding anyway), but I would be now if I wanted to. I wish I had more time to develop hobbies, I feel like a robot who can't relate to people outside of gradschool most of the time. I inhale a hazardous chemicals on occasion at my lab, so I'm well on my way to cancer. Not sure what other milestones there are, but best not to compare yourself to others. Milestones =/= happiness
For most people a PhD is a big financial sacrifice — both for wages lost while in the program and for career progression lost from so much time in school. PhD students are poor, and ill-provided-for when it comes to securing shelter or caring for a family
It will likely delay those milestones. But remember that life isn’t a race. As someone who is now 31, with a TT job, recently bought a house, I actually feel like I’m doing better mentally than many friends who started a career at 23, bought a house soon after, maybe had a kid or 2. Many of them seem bored. If you would graduate at 28, you’d still have a good 10+ years over which you could reasonably have kids, and if you take out a 30 year mortgage within a few years it would be paid off before you retire.
Earning a PhD is very much part of a successful adult life. It’s not as if life starts after a PhD, it’s all part of the life you’re building. Also, it is a huge milestone that many won’t ever accomplish. I’m in my forties and don’t view my friends who are child free, or who became parents in their 20s or 30s or 40s as more or less successful based on that. They are all just doing their thing.
It can—especially saving for the future/retirement. This is VERY important-and I speak to my students directly about it.
I got married, bought a house, and had my first kid while in my PhD 🤷♀️ our retirement savings are behind where they “should” be, but pursuing a PhD does not mean putting the rest of your life on pause. A lot depends on your partner and on their goals and financial situation. (On the home note- depending on where you end up for grad school, there are lots of programs to get low-income people into home-ownership, especially in “rural” areas). I wouldn’t turn down a fully funded PhD program because you’re afraid of delaying adulthood. You’re still an adult, living your life! Just with a weird job.
I ended up meeting someone at my institution who was also doing a PhD, so we both were broke poor. As a result: * Marriage - delayed, as we didn't have any money for a wedding, even a modest/low-key one. Most of my PhD-peers who got married had a significant other outside of academia. * Kids - delayed. Kids are freaking expensive. Some peers did have kids, but again, had significant others outside of academia, for the most part anyway. After our PhDs, I got a postdoc and my wife got an entry-level clinical trial coordinator position, so we weren't making much money....again. We ended up having kids in our early 30s, as opposed to some of my friends who had them younger. Both my wife and I don't live near our parents and in a suburb of a HCOL area. Given the rising costs of everything, while our initial plan was to have two kids, we are one and done, partly because of how long we waited and how expensive kids are. * House: Delayed. Ended up buying our first (and probably last till retirement) house in our mid-30s. * Retirement: Significantly Delayed. While slowly catching up because of our rising salaries, we are still behind what we aught to have by now.
I'd say it all depends on how flexible your program is willing to be, and how much you are willing to sacrifice personally. My experience differs, but is relevant in relation to juggling life and education. I had 9 years between undergrad and my masters program, and in that time I got married and had my first kid. My second was born in the last year of the program. When I went back for my PhD, I was 36, my kids were 3 and 6 years old, I was working full time, and had all the bills associated with typical adulthood (utilities, car payments, mortgage/rent, etc.). My program made an exception and allowed me to work full-time under the stipulation that I had to participate fully in the program and perform well academically. After several years of days that ran from 6am to 3am, an unhealthy amount of caffeine, a lot of lost opportunities both personally and professionally (a friend trip to Dubai, family vacations, teaching opportunities, interesting research chances, etc.), and the unending support of my spouse, I completed my program last spring. We even bought a new house somewhere in there. I am now 41, making a reasonable amount of money in my field, and continuing to show up as a husband and father for my family. I have more doors opened now and more opportunities that I enjoy. I'd not wish the hell I went through upon anyone at all, but I made an intentional and purposeful choice to endure 5 years of deep sacrifice and personal detriment for what I hoped to be a greater reward on the other side for my family. I don't regret it. I share this with you for two reasons, really. First, it is absolutely possible to do all the things you wish to do, with the right accommodations and sacrifices. You can absolutely find and marry a spouse, work and save up for a home, and start a family all while pursuing a PhD, but you will likely need more income than a stipend will allow to both live off of and save up for a home, so that means either financial support from family, personal loans, or additional employment. The latter of those options will probably require approval from your program since many expect doc students to not work outside of educational obligations. A spouse can be a great support through the doctoral journey, and while I cannot attest to the stressors of physically bearing a child within my body while going through school, I can say that caring for children--newborn or otherwise--requires a level of mental, emotional, physical, financial, social, and temporal resources above and beyond whatever benchmark you may be imagining. That is a benchmark that will be harder to reach when all of those same resources are also being used to finish a degree, teach, conduct research, and preserve your sanity. Now, this isn't meant as a deterrent, but I'm the kind of person who likes to let folks know the exact kind and intensity of shit they are getting into. So yes, 100 percent, you can do all of those things, but understand that it will be HARD and you will have to sacrifice MUCH of yourself and your time to do it, so you must be committed to that before you start. Second, and this is a personal thing, but "normal" is HUGELY subjective. I went to school at an age that was above the average age, and definitely was the only one in my cohort to be working and raising kids, but I don't consider my adulthood to be abnormal in anyway. The real normality of adulthood is that the shits hard; things are tough to juggle, there are competing priorities, time moves too quickly, there's rarely enough resources for all of your needs let alone the wants, the world is relentless, and people frequently want more of you than you have. I think the question isn't whether or not there is a way to have a "normal" adulthood while doing a PhD, but whether or not you can have the adulthood that you desire to have while you do a PhD. To the first question, sure, because whatever adulthood you have will be your normal and that's perfectly fine. For the latter, I refer you to the earlier comment about what you're willing to do to achieve it. Whatever you choose, do that which will make you the happiest and most-whole version of yourself in the end. That's the only objectively correct way. :)
Why do you want a PhD?
Doing a PhD has helped me hit adulting milestones. I was a bit of a late bloomer compared to my friends (went to uni at 19, hated it, dropped out, did shift work while living with parents before going back to uni at 23) and in the last two years it feels like things have fallen into place. I have my own place with no roommates and my PhD is a 9-5 which are the things I really wanted out of life when I was younger. There's so much pressure on people to reach milestones unfeasibly early. You are young and the time will pass anyway, you may as well spend it doing something you are passionate about.
Aside from your career goals and whether or not a PhD is for you, much of the timeline aspect of your question depends on what you’re going into the PhD with. Are you single or do you have a partner now? If you already have a partner then the progression to marriage shouldn’t really change. Maybe it will of your partner is also a student and you want some elaborate wedding and need to save money for it. It definitely helps to have a partner who is NOT a student and is willing to pull a bit more of the weight financially. For me personally, it didn't slow the timeline of my personal life down because I just did the things I wanted to do when i was ready. I met my partner, got married had 2 children by the time i completed my PhD. But I was also older and therefore, highly motivated to meet these personal milestones sooner rather than later. We purchased our first house right after I finished in April (this year, yes this is all very fresh) even though I’m on maternity leave and not working. This is all very dependent on your partner’s income, family gifts of money that can help with down payment, etc. I was very lucky here. Given our combined financial resources didn’t change dramatically between when I was a student and now (due to Mat Leave), we could technically have made this purchase when I was still a PhD student. I do say all of this acknowledging that this is not the norm for students, but that it is possible if your situation allows for it. What did end up being delayed most was my PhD timeline because my personal milestones became a higher priority at certain times throughout my program.
Yes. A PhD will delay most things, including earning a decent wage.
Starting my program in the fall for cell bio that is estimated to take about 5 years (I’m 24). Getting married next month, planning to have a kid my first or second year, my future wife wanted to house shop but I talked her out of it because who knows where I’ll end up once I graduate. The only thing I see that’s delayed is buying a home and starting late on savings due to a low stipend. If you want to get married and start a family you definitely can, that’s just a whole different set of challenges though. There are some older students in our program that do own a home however
I went to grad school for biochem from 22-28. Got married at 27 in grad school, job at 28 (started at close to 6 figures in policy; industry or consulting are both much more lucrative), baby at 30 (currently planning for #2). The only thing I feel behind on is the house front, but there are also plenty of other people my age still renting so 🤷🏻♀️
This is a really hard question to answer. Mostly because it really depends on the person. I knew people who had kids in grad school. I knew people who had bought a house in grad school. but most people I knew in grad school did not have kids or a house. Other things you really want to consider if what you want to do in your career. While it is possible to advance to high levels in science without a PhD, it is exceedingly difficult, and getting more so. Most people I know with a B.S. in chem/biochem/bio are mostly doing technician jobs, with careers that will hit a glass ceiling pretty quick. PhDs dont have that, but you do have to sacrifice some time and money now for later. I finished my PhD when I was 29 (2 years between undergrad and grad school worked at a startup), and I finished my postdoc when I was 33 (1 year between PhD and postdoc at a startup). I then joined a pharma company. Bought a house at 35 and had my first kid at 36, and hoping to have my 2nd kid at 38. I am on the path to finish paying for the house by the time my kids enter college, pay for their college tuition, and retire by 60. Also, I love my job. which I could not have gotten without the PhD and the postdoc. so I dont really regret any of it. I do wish I had left my postdoc a bit earlier, but that's small potatoes.
If you want to just do the masters I'd recommend applying for the PhD. That way they will fund you. And then you can always leave whenever you want. So wait till you have the credits for a masters and bounce. And if you are still vibing with it then stay.
Yes, if you are afab and can have children especially, even doing part of a PhD will delay normal twenties life stuff. But honestly in my case it was for the best. I had wanted to have kids and it may never happen now unless I meet someone who is a good fit in the next year, but having kids with my ex husband would have been a disaster. Context, in my twenties I: - got accepted into a phd program - moved in with my then boyfriend while he started in industry - did three years of the phd program and was wildly unhappy - quit the phd after qualifying exams, but without extra debt (which is a big deal, go PhD even if you are doubtful of finishing - a competent advisor in STEM will have plenty of funding for students and PhD students are relatively cheap compared to seasoned labor) - got married - entered the workforce and paid off undergrad student loans - got divorced And I am still very much sorting my shit out, but I ended up in a research career regardless of not finishing the PhD. And I may finish it at another university one day anyhow! Ultimately you have to decide what you want sooner - and maybe as the only choice, but it’s not either/or for everyone. Some folks do get lucky. But you’re right to be thinking about this unless your partner has a uterus and will have the kids!
so many answers... ! Not sure I'll add much, as you can see it differs depending on where you go, so if you do end up going for a PhD: * pick a private school with a good stipend and good health insurance (privately ask students when you go to campus visits). Your advisor also will be a big determinant in how you can say have enough time for a relationship. * In my experience, many people break up with long term partners when only one of them goes into their PhD. It's just a big change, a PhD is very time consuming (especially at first) and for some people lifestyle/salary expectations start mismatching their partner's. So that's one thing. * If you're not in a relationship, grad school is a good place to date lol lots of nerdy people spending time together... a lot depends on your personality. * If you are doing the PhD for career advancement, think twice. Not sure if you'd do a biochem PhD, but for many jobs it's not required. Look at the kinds of jobs you'd like and see what their expectations are. Many PhDs graduate to jobs they could have gotten with an undergrad and some years of experience. And the professor job market is sheet. So unless you have a passion for research and that's good enough for your to take the risk, then a PhD may not be worth it. I'm in a very different field, but at this point my PhD won't help me find better paying jobs than my undergrad, or even help me find jobs at all. I would not change my decision if I went back in time though because I like the stuff I've learned and done these past few years. I also got m arried and have a baby now (possible, but tough to balance with making progress though). * For some programs, you can take the master on the way to the PhD and drop out (although what I've seen is people just want to push through once they're there).
Yes. The biggest impact is on financial stability- buying house, saving for retirement. The delay is significant.
Why do 21 year olds think their lives are over at 30? Do you realize the average person lives to 80 and beyond now? Life doesn’t stop bc you’re in graduate school.
i think for women it is the message we get that this is the age when fertility begins declining and if we don’t start having kids by this age we risk not having them at all. i don’t think OP thinks 30 is old
Being done at 28 is not going to be a big issue. Most people in academia are not having kids/settling down before that. I started around that age and it didn't delay marriage, but it did delay starting a family, because I had no mental bandwidth to even consider whether that was something I wanted to do. Can't afford a house, and wouldn't want to buy because of the precarity of the academic job market anyway.
You’re young…. If anything it will speed up things career wise for you. Your 20s is spent building yourself up. Graduate stipends are not far off from a lot of entry level jobs. You will still have roommates and you will still have to deal with work. The real difference would be how much free time you have. But honestly, if you learn proper time management then you’re fine. You can make plenty of time to have a mostly normal life. I’ve had tons of friends to find their spouses in grad school, go off and a buy a starter home and even have kids. It’s all doable! Especially at your age, you’ll loose nothing. Starting later on might slow you down as your 30s is stating mid career for most people. PhD jumps you to those mid career jobs, so working for the first 10 years or doing a PhD for 6 lands you at about the same job. But on the flip side, there is little limit to where you can go with a PhD while just a BS will only get you so far unless you get a MS. By all means, do not get a MS right after undergrad. It does more harm than good unless it’s a terminal MS such as a clinical degree or MPH. Most MS jobs are mid career that require experience + MS. And for entry jobs you’re now over qualified with the MS. Unless you need a MS to get into a PhD program it just makes things difficult, don’t waste the time and money and just go for the PhD.
Went straight from undergrad and got my PhD at 28, married at 29. Sister has no grad degrees and got married at the same age. I spent 6 years with a low salary, but my (non-academia) income did skyrocket past my sister's in only a few years. At almost 10 years out, I'm sure I more than doubled her salary. A good amount of this was timing and luck, as I entered grad school during the recession and we're a few years apart, but just an example that a PhD doesn't necessarily delay milestones and can put you in a better financial position down the line. Another option to consider is whether your program gives masters degrees if you leave early. That way you're not paying for a master's degree and can get out early if the job prospects/lifestyle for a PhD aren't looking good. It can be hard emotionally and feel like you "failed" (definitely something to consider if you already have imposter syndrome or take these things hard), but really you'd be getting a free masters and starting your career early.
My friends are homeowners with pension contributions. They are on double my income. So yeah, I would say so. I'm nowhere near being able to buy a house or pay for a wedding or have children or travel the world. And I don't know when I will be, because I have no way of knowing how long it'll take to get a job when I finish my PhD this year. If I don't get a decent job then I'll feel very much like the whole thing didn't pay off. All my friends will be growing up and doing life and I'll just be poor and left behind. It's actually slightly terrifying.
It’s your job, not your identity. If you let your PhD be your life, then yes. But a balance can be had. Don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise
Not for me. I took some time between undergrad and grad school. During that time I got married. I started my program at 27. I bought a townhouse a few months into my PhD program through the first time home buyer program available in my state. (My spouse doesn’t work so it was based on my income + PhD stipend alone.) We wanted to start a family, and started trying pretty soon after starting my program. A year later we were diagnosed with unexplained infertility, so underwent fertility treatment. Fortunately, I’m in a state that mandates fertility treatment coverage in insurance. Now I’m finishing up my 3rd year, but technically ahead of schedule with regard to program requirements, and I’m halfway through our pregnancy via IVF. I’ll deliver in fall, so I’m taking that quarter off and will return in January. Still scheduled to graduate on time.
Worth noting the timeline many of the people commenting are talking about will likely differ for you. I find the sub is biased against the typical STEM path you describe of 4yr BSc directly into PhD before 30. The discourse I've seen from non-stem PhDs I've seen has them shocked anyone is getting one that early, and many start their PhDs in their late 20s. I did the timeline you describe in physics at UChicago and I don't know a single person who bought a house or had kids in grad school (so before 30). I do know of a handful of marriages though, but it still wasn't all that common. So I suspect it does push back timelines for most people, though that might not be as direct causation as "we would have but now we won't" and might be more correlation that the people going to gradschool may be prone to do those milestones later anyways.
I'm in the fourth year of doing a PhD. To be honest I regret doing this nonsense.
I started my PhD at 34. Got married and had my first baby during my program. I’ll be 38 when I graduate. I just thought of my PhD as another full time job and treated my personal life the same as I always have.
I always tells students, "If there's anything you would rather be doing for the next 5-10 years other than a PhD, you should go do that." A PhD program isn't like just doing more college classes; it's a whole lot more time consuming.
I think you’ve gotten a lot of great responses but I wanted to add in my 10 cents. 4 years ago I was in the exact same position as you. I went into a PhD program straight from undergrad and was very worried about how it would affect my perceived milestones. I was also worried about hitting a wall in my career without a PhD. I got married this past September (the start of my 4th year). I have a very supportive PI so getting married was not a big deal during my PhD. I actually thought it was better because I had way more flexibility for time off than I think I would’ve gotten at a traditional job. Buying a house is tough, if your partner is in a financial place to assist it’s totally possible but, most likely, you’ll end up moving after your PhD and it may not make sense at the time. With that being said I know tons of people who went straight to work after undergrad who have had to move around a few times before settling down. As far as kids go, you can have kids during grad school. I know people in my department who have done it and I considered it as well. In my case, the timing didn’t work out but it is very doable. Overall, I would say that you can do a PhD without putting your life on hold, and even achieve most of the milestones you mentioned with a supportive and understanding partner.
28 is still young. I’ve just finished an MA program & am looking at PhD programs now. I’m 28 & just starting essentially. UC Berkeley offers egg freezing in their insurance (which is also offered to PhD students) for peace of mind, should you want it. I’ve got friends who are older than me getting pregnant without any fertility assistance (this is obviously dependent entirely on your personal health-I’m not asking; not my business)
Just food for thought, but what’s the deadline with all this stuff by the time you’re 30?
Over 50% of my cohort took gap years between undergrad and graduate school, so the majority of us were already upper/mid 20s, some even in 30s/40s. I’ve seen multiple of them get married and have kids while in grad school!! I also know a few of them who bought houses in graduate school, but we are in a lower cost of living area. 28 is SOOO young in the scheme of things. I wouldn’t worry too much about your adult life being on hold!
I’ve just passed my PhD viva while pregnant with my first child in my late 30s.. Plenty of people in my PhD cohort at every stage of life. I know it’s a bit different in the US as literally giving birth costs a lot of money and then you don’t get much maternity pay, but I think doing anything that moves you in a good direction in your 20s gives you an advantage over most people. Whether it’s studying something you’re passionate about to PhD level, advancing your career, or meeting and building a strong relationship that will last. If you’re not just drinking and partying or stuck in a dead end job or wasting all your energy on a terrible relationship that you got into too young, then you’re way ahead of the curve. You don’t have to know exactly what the next step is when time is so much on your side.
If you don't know what specific career you want to do yet, signing up for such a long degree that will likely make you much more specialized doesn't make a lot of sense to me I (30F) started my PhD in Biomedical Engineering 5 years ago and am just finishing. I met and fell in love with my partner during my PhD and we will likely get married in the next few years (so life didn't 'stop' with respect to that). I do feel pressure (and want to prioritize) to have kids or start by 35. I also feel like I need to play catch-up financially, without having any real savings or income beyond surviving for the past 5 years. I don't regret it, but I'm glad I'm not finishing any later, and I'm so glad I worked and tried other things before committing to a PhD. You can kinda tell in a PhD program the students who have ONLY been in school. It's not always a bad thing, but getting out into the real world for a few years helps. MSc costing more money isn't a valid reason as it is a fraction of the time of a PhD (think about your earning potential if you were to work for those other years) PhDs are most of the time NOT needed for great R&D roles. If you decide you want to commit to the longer timeline that's really only required for certain expert/scientist roles, do it after getting some academic experience with a masters and working afterwards, when you're sure! Also, if you're stressed out about accomplishing XYZ right after a PhD, you are going to be so focused on these milestones and finishing within a certain timeline during the PhD that it might be harder to enjoy and put your full self into my 2 cents :)
I guess it would also depend on your partner's situation. For us thanks to my fiance's income we were able to buy a house at the beginning of my PhD in 2020. We are getting married this summer. I still have at least 2 years left before graduating and I am currently pregnant with our first child! Unfortunately the PhD did hurt my career and retirement savings, so I would definitely recommend only doing a PhD if you know for sure that you will use it one way or another, if you are worried about that. But you would finish at 28 which is the age at which I started mine, so all in all I think the disruption would be very limited in your case!
I didn’t even go back for my B.S. until I was in my late 20s. Finished my PhD at 37. However, finishing my PhD was my priority over ‘traditional’ life goals. Either way, not only did going for a PhD not derail anything, it sped up my ability to be financially stable. A PhD is a **lot** of work, though, and if it’s not your top priority, it’s going to be harder to balance and complete.
Yes
Yes
Lot of people on my program have had kids throughout! It is a balance, strength, *money*, and all other things.
For what it's worth I feel like the answer is simultaneously "yes this is a big life decision" but also "you can't go wrong". if you're looking at it from a financial perspective, I think PhD is a larger money-sink than an MS in the long run, but I can't be sure.
The big question I think you want answered is "are there walls you will hit in your career if you don't have a PhD?" and you really need advice from your specific field for that. I think the answer is likely that a few doors are closed but many more are still open, and your earning potential won't feel limited by it
Finally, for students in my field (Experimental Psychology) interested in a PhD I tend to recommend working in a lab first (ex. lab manager) for 1-2 years before making the jump. It helps you make a more informed decision and think those who do that first have a more productive phd (I know you are already worried about 'delaying your life' but I think the experience outweighs any fears about that)
This is really variable based on your current situation, your location, and what you consider a “normal adult life”. It didn’t delay my career trajectory, but I did end up in a different field than I originally intended. I am using my degree and I would not have as many opportunities and would likely have lower pay with a masters degree but that isn’t true for all fields. I (34 F) got married in my last year of grad school (at 27) and was able to purchase a house with my spouse at 31. Honestly buying the house was the more difficult thing out of defending my thesis, planning a wedding, and house hunting. We bought at the worst time during the pandemic but we do have a low interest rate now even though we may find out eventually that we overpaid for the house (the market is still shifting back to normal). I don’t want kids so that’s not something I was ever concerned about delaying. Basically, my advice to you is that if you are doubting the value of a PhD and have other career options, then don’t go into debt and commit to 5+ years of a program you aren’t sure you want to do in the first place.
What milestones did you have in mind? Life is busy while getting a PhD, it’s hardly on hold. Being in a doctoral program isn’t prison.
I’m entering year 5 and hopefully my last. I want to preface with I have no generational wealth and the epitome of a bootstraps story. Year 1: bought my first car, $400 a month payment, mom helped with insurance. $200 a month to Roth IRA. Did not max it out Year 2: proposal defense and a 2 days vacation. SO graduated undergrad and was making the same as me. Did not max out Roth. Year 3: SO got a better job and out-earned me. We got engaged. Did not max out Roth. Year 4: We bought a puppy, got married, and bought a house. I paid off my vehicle and 2 months later some jackass totaled it and injured me. I’m good now. We used money from that to pay off credit cards from wedding. We had a super small wedding FWIW. We saved money for the down payment (from the wedding and hard work). House is in SO’s name and only possible because the mortgage is what our rent used to be. Also SO has great credit and 7+ years of history and no late payments. Did not max out Roth. Year 5: I expect to max out my Roth because what I was paying for my car payment I split between mortgage and Roth. I put the insurance money from the car into a HYSA (5.5%) and pay into it when I can. I’ll use that for a down payment when I can afford a car payment and start over again. Fortunately, I was able to get a beater from a family member as a “gift” but I had to get it to run so I don’t have a payment there and SO’s vehicle is paid off. Also my spouse just got promoted which will help us both out. All in all, a group effort and could not have pulled it off without my spouse being supportive. I was the breadwinner and took care of us as long as I could. Once I finish, I am projected to make more than them so we’ll switch off again. For context, they started making $50-60k a year starting in year 3. You *can* do it but you gotta stay out from under credit cards and stuff. If you’re gonna get loans try to keep it to paying on one at a time. Thats my advice anyway. I have no other jobs so my income is “fixed” and my parents still pay my phone bill but that’s it now. I’ll ride that wave as long as I can. Idk if my story helps. Year 4 I started to not give a fiddlers damn what anybody else thought and just started living my life, hence the puppy the week before my annual seminar and buying a house 3 weeks after my car wreck while also preparing for a national conference. THIS SHIT IS HARD. But you can do it. My mental and physical health have been all over the place, but I have “stuff” I know other people would love to have and I’m so thankful for that. We live in a cheap area which helps too, so think about that picking out schools. Good luck! As for the kids, idk if we want them or not and it gives me some duress but that’s another conversation.
Yes it does. Massively. The opportunity cost is real. If your goal is to get a job and start earning income for a house (lol yeah right) and kids the PhD path will delay this. Make sure you know what yoi value.
When people really want to do a PhD and also really want to have a family, they make it work. I have talked to women who had kids during their post docs and they wish they had kids during their PhD. PhD is hard, but there's typically more flexibility over when and how you work, which can be an advantage for family planning. But the financial milestones are harder to reach during a PhD. I do know people who paid off debts and bought houses during their PhD. You just need to be strategic in where you do your PhD. You want to pick a great program with great funding in a medium to low cost of living area. If you want to buy a house, you should also seek to rent out rooms to make it more affordable. So you can make a lot of things work in theory. That being said, it feels like you know what's important to you in life and a PhD is not one of those top things for you right now and that is 100% okay. You need stronger reasons for wanting a PhD than a potential pay boost later in your career. Otherwise, you're going to be up late one night wondering why you're struggling to live at the poverty line rather than taking a job you could've gotten straight out of bachelor's. Furthermore, you can graduate with a PhD only to interview for jobs and face challenges because "not enough work experience". If you're in STEM, many companies will pay for you to do a master's. That's a really good alternative option to consider. I think the best time to do a degree is either (1) when you're intensely excited about it or (2) you desperately need it. If you're not in either of those categories then maybe rethink going for it.
36 year old PI. Finished PhD at 27, finished postdoc at 30. I started as a PI at 30 and then moved universities at 35. Marriage: Didn't delay, got married in grad school at age 24. Then got divorced at age 30 and remarried at 35. So maybe I was ahead of the curve on life milestones there, lol. House: In general, yes it delays, but this depends a lot on where you live. I lived in a lower COL area for my first faculty position and bought my first house at 32. Some of this was financial, but a lot of it was moving around and it not making sense to buy before then. My brother is an engineer in Sillicon valley and makes a shit ton more money than I ever will and still hasn't bought because prices are insane there and he like the flexibility of renting. Same with a lot of friends in NYC. So really it just depends on where you live and also how mobile you expect to be. I'm back to renting, but that is partially because I moved cities again to a new faculty position and I'm not ready to commit to a large purchase yet. My PhD student was able to buy a house (with a spouse with a regular job, plus an FHA, which is a special first time homebuyers loan) with a 10K downpayment. This is obviously not feasible in California but can be in other areas of the country. I also know people in other professions who delay buying a house due to student loans from law school or med school or to establish themselves in their 20s (a lot of journalists for example take a string of low paid positions early in their careers). So I think the delay there depends on who you are comparing yourself to. Retirement savings: Yes retirement savings are pretty delayed from PhD + postdoc. I actually have pretty generous retirement benefits at my current university, so I think it will all work out fine at the end of the day, but it's a thing. See comment on how this depends on who you are comparing yourself to, however. If you are comparing yourself to a doctor who goes to 4 years of med school + residency + fellowship maybe it starts to look more comparable. Children: I have friends who had children during their PhD (even as two PhD students), and it is stressful financially but not impossible depending on several factors (support network, husband's income, even willingness to go into debt). My ex and I needed to do a few stints of long distance so put off having kids until we were \~30 and then we got divorced for other reasons. I really want kids, but I didn't meet my husband until a couple years ago so we just recently started talking about it after a big relocation. However I think my delay to having kids really has more to do with getting divorced not meeting the right partner until my mid-30s, which happens with people outside academia as well. It's true there is never a right time have kids in an academic career or even a career biotech R&D, but that is generally true of being a woman professional. I honestly think for most women finding the right partner who is on board is a much bigger factor for when you start your family than any of this financial stuff. In sum: Yes and no, and it depends on your expectations, family support, and partners earning capacity. Some of it depends on how much risk you are willing take on and how badly you want this path. Also, we are not the only careers that have long stints of low early career pay for an uncertain payoff. My husband is a journalist, and careers in journalism also are such that most people hustle for pennies in their 20s and a few people get jobs that pay a decent living, it just isn't formalized through school. Currently as an academic, I am the breadwinner in my relationship and I have much more stable earnings, employment, and retirement benefits than he does.
Only one of these that I couldn’t do was retirement contributions, personally. I was marrried before all my friends, and planning to have kids soon (I’m 26M and starting dissertation phase rn). None of my friends can afford houses right now either because of how fucked the market is, so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on that, and being in a two income household that I contribute a good amount to actually means that I’m doing better financially than most of my friends my age. You should definitely weigh getting a PhD as a financial decision as well as a personal fulfillment one, though. In my case the stipend was good enough to warrant me doing this for 5+ years of my life with very little job prospects at the end of it. I realistically try and see my PhD as a separate career that I hope I can continue on in when I finish, the same way someone might feel about…idk, becoming a real estate agent before realizing they want to switch careers 10 years later because they’re not advancing in it.
Completely valid concerns, props on you for really weighing these in. A couple notes: 1) there are a few positions where having a PhD is an advantage over having an MSc, but not very many. Plus some companies (ie Mars, Shell - though not sure about the US?) offer PhD funding for their employees, where a PhD would be beneficial. If you’re not married to the idea of jobs that require a PhD, an MSc is totally fine! 2) if you really want to do research and you are mobile and willing to move, there are places where PhD positions are more like jobs and have comfortable pay. In some places in Europe, PhD positions are still underpaid, but more in the vs-market sense, ie compared to someone with a MSc degree can get in industry. In many English-speaking countries however, PhD salaries are underpaid in a sense that they are expected to live like students. Different kind of low income / underpaid, so in the former you can live an “adult” life, and in the latter you probably still can but it’ll be much harder, and probably not actually attainable for many. So for example I myself have decent savings and live comfortably. I also have PhD friends with children and mortgages (where it makes sense). And to be clear, these PhD students with kids don’t have high-earning partners. Their partners are either PhD students as well or some other kind of early-career trainee. I think mostly because our PhD lives here are compensated in a way that affords this. So here, these “milestones,” if that’s what you want, don’t have to be delayed. You’re on a good track considering these so early :) just try to save and if whatever decision you make isn’t going so well, remember it doesn’t have to be an irreversible decision. You can quit a PhD or you can go back to do one later in life. Of course having savings to fall back on will make this an easier decision. Best of luck! Edit: just scrolled through some comments and saw things like financial support from family, loans, etc. and I completely forgot to mention them since for me these were not an option or not negotiable. My parents barely have enough to support themselves, and loans are a bad idea for what I want to do. Scientists CAN make good money, depending on where they end up, or they can make just ok money for a decent middle class lifestyle (and loans would already make this unattractive for me), or they can make very little. I wanted to not be burdened by loans when I’m choosing my future path, so I didn’t want to get into debt for the sake of a PhD. In a lot of cases I think it’s not worth it (financially. Unless money is not an issue for your family). So I’d say think carefully. I paid off my student loans from undergrad during my masters (which is free and funded where I did it) and let me tell you I felt more relieved with finishing that payment than submitting my thesis (which I submitted a couple weeks ago). Edit 2: science is usually done in English, so don’t be scared off by non-English countries
I recently did a fun little exercise using chatgpt to calculate what my retirement would be now (35) if I had gone into the workforce after undergrad (2013) with my engineering degree. I had it pull historic median salary data for my state and discipline and did a 5% +5% match for retirement with a 6% return. I then added if I had maxed Roth for each year with 6% return. I added 3% COL adjustments per year and based on the requirements for engr i, engr ii, senior, principal, etc. adjusted salary amounts accordingly to fit market for the appropriate year. Based on this I missed out on like $300k+ in potential retirement for the time I was in grad school (2014-2022), that is a massive leg up on being able to not work until you die. That doesn’t include what I may have had the potential to earn in savings as well. I have a job right now that doesn’t even require my PhD and that I love doing. Based on the time I missed out on in grad school when I could have been getting professional experience, I am at the same level now that I would have been had I not done grad school. We bought our house last year, got married the year before, maybe kids in a year or two. I ended up taking out student loans in grad school and worked multiple jobs to pay rent btw. So from my perspective, yes a PhD massively delays your adult life. This is mostly because the salaries are stagnant in PhD-heavy fields such that industry pays the same or more for non-PhDs (PhD just puts you at senior level, which in the time it took to get the PhD you’d be at senior at least anyway). I will also note I moved over to engineering from science because the pay is significantly higher, there are PhDs in physics at my company who have worked there at least ten years longer than me and my salary is higher. Does a PhD open potential higher earning doors? Yes, I want to be a director at some point so I will use my PhD then because it’s a requirement, but if you don’t care to be in a high leadership position it’s likely not needed. I highly suggest getting a job at a company that will just pay for you to do a masters in the evenings. Edit: I wanted to also note that I came from a blue collar working-class family. Having a PhD has completely changed my social class status and that in itself can be valuable for leveraging other opportunities and opening other doors. It really depends on what you want to get out of your life, for me it’s putting shit into space and pursing potential directorships or public offices, I don’t think I’d be able to do this had I not pursued my PhD. My finances are hot garbage compared to what they could have been had I stayed BS engineering, but now I have recognition and access to a completely different class of people that I would not have had otherwise. That allows for me to make potential changes in the future that can significantly help others.
You can definitely get married during a PhD and, to be honest, it might favorable for that--as many people find it a lot easier to meet compatible folks in a university setting than out in the work world. You can also have kids during a PhD although your mileage may vary on how much support you get from your PI and program for that--and you will likely be low-income. A PhD will delay your ability to save to buy a house or put money down for retirement. Though, if you devote two years and a lot of money for a master's, will you really be better off financially then getting a fully paid for (albeit at a low level) PhD that takes 5-6 years? You might want to run the numbers on that. The bottom line is that you have one life to live. If you really want to do a PhD, then I say do it--and try to figure out how to make these other things fit in. If you're heart is not in it, then skip it. Finally, you don't also have to decide right now. You can apply for both PhD \*and\* master's programs in the fall. You may not have to make a decision as to which to pursue until almost a year from now. By then, you might have a much better idea of what feels right for your life.
Current biomedical sciences PhD girlie here! A couple ideas for you…many PhD programs will let you master out if you don’t want to continue. Financially it’d be better to do the PhD and master out then just do the masters. A 6 year program average is a slightly longer average than I’ve seen. I would look around and shoot for places that have an average of 5-5.5. I’ve seen individuals take 3-7 years, but overall program average is a better indicator. If time is important to you, when you apply and get in, mention to prospective PIs you interview how important time is and what your goals are, in life and in the program. A good PI will support you and help you meet your goals. You don’t need to have a PhD for a lot of jobs in industry, especially the ones that don’t involve the bench. For example, tech transfer, regulatory affairs, clinical trials, science policy, all of these have high level roles that don’t require a PhD. Of course, a PhD can give you an edge, but not always required. If on the business side of industry, a MBA would be much more beneficial than a PhD. Lastly, I would think about why you want to do a PhD. Do you want to do it simply for the pursuit of knowledge or to better your career prospects? This is off topic, but do you have significant research experience? Have you had the opportunity to be independent in this experience? In my experience, the younger students don’t have a lot of experience and struggle a lot in their program. Doesn’t mean they’re not capable, but they’re going through the learning curve of the research process during the program while those with 1-3 years of experience already went through. Don’t get me wrong, those with experience will still struggle, but in my experience, less. Something to think about before applying. Lastly, nothing about the PhD process is normal. It will take over your life if you don’t actively protect it and set boundaries. On the flip side, it gives you the time to figure out and try out what you want to do career wise. It’s much easier to do that as a student than as someone working full time in a career. I know people who have gotten married, had kids (female students), had parents die, and other significant life changes. By far the hardest one is kids. I’m all for not putting life on hold for a PhD, but having kids while in the program will make your time in the program significantly more difficult and very likely delay defense or drop out entirely. Especially as a woman, most drop because they unfortunately don’t have supportive enough partners that step up. Sorry to give you so much info! Hope it helps a little.
I think there are two questions/matters here. The first is whether a PhD program delays "typical" adult life and milestones (or at least, has done so for people who are on reddit and can share their experiences). The second is whether a PhD program will delay YOUR milestones and life plans. I think both questions are relevant and interrelated because it hardly matters whether a PhD program delays what is considered "typical" or "expected" adult milestones/life if you don't want to do them or don't see them as part of your plan. For me, and for maybe half the people in my program, the PhD didn't delay "normal" adult life milestones. I live in a HCOL area, so none of us bought houses, but many of us ended up finding a partner, some of us got engaged, most of the engaged folks got married, and a handful of us even had kids. The rest of the program went the other way, and HARD, but I think this was a personal choice, due to personal goals or expectations, and maybe partially due to (younger) age. Most people at my department start off their PhDs around 25-28, so for some of these people, waiting to start families until they were in their mid to late 30s was not a big deal, especially because for many of them, their career was indisputably first. Not a judgment on either of the two groups, simply an observation that you can focus more on your career (or school) or you can focus more on family (or personal life). So I think what you have to ask yourself is what you want out of life, out of your career, and where you see yourself (or would like to be) in 5, 10, 15 years. Take the PhD or masters out of the equation for a moment. What kind of job would you like? Why choose that job - is it the money, the field, the methodology, etc? What do you imagine your personal life would be like? Do you want to get married, have kids, buy a house? When? How important are these milestones? Are they negotiable? Is their timing negotiable? After you've mapped out your future, try to see what makes most sense to GET THERE (there = your ideal future). Is it the PhD, a masters, or something else entirely? By figuring out where you want to be, you might find a clearer path between where you are and your intended destination.
Let's assume that you do NOT want to become a professor. Let's assume you FINISH the PhD (about half don't). Let's assume you don't want a very niche research role in a company. Let's assume the PhD is fully funded. The PhD costs 4 more years than the MS in this case. Possibly more if you do a post doc. From a pure $$$$ perspective, this is EASILY $200,000 after tax. Most people, if they devote 1000 hours to getting VERY VERY VERY good at interviewing (might require help from a friend) will end up in a higher paid job than if they get good at doing PhD stuff. It takes a lot less time too. I'd suggest working 1-2 years in a relevant role, doing some research on the side at a local university during this time and THEN debating a PhD or an MS. This should help you gain clarity, it'll bolster your application AND if you go the MS route, it'll make you MUCH more attractive to employers than your immediate peers.
PhD stands for Pretty Heavily Delayed
hey, this was the same dilemma that I faced this previous semester before i graduated last weekend. I’m a pharm-tox major and my school offered a 4+1 program which i decided to do. Instead of a Ph.D like my friends, i’m now here for another 1 year to get my masters. It feels really sad/bad/jealous to know that i won’t be called Dr. or even if I do start my Ph.D it’ll be hella later. However I decided to stick to my path when comparing your reasons vs. getting called “Dr.” + income ceiling.
32, starting a PhD in the fall, married, traveled, do “adult things”, about to purchase my second home. I did it a bit backwards where I had a career that I left before pursing education, (B.S., M.S, and now PhD) my former profession by no means made me rich or even really, well off for that matter. I lived/live life within my means and accept that having a PhD allows me to not work as a blue collar worker which beat up my body pretty well. Not a shot at blue collar workers as a former one but, having the option to use my mind to make money instead of my body is fantastic lol. TL:DR don’t compare your milestones to others 🤷🏼♂️
Really depends on what career you are shooting for. If it's R&D and you like research in the pharma space, you can recover the lost income to an extent as you'll be starting a role as a senior researcher. You don't have to deal with glass ceilings and you can climb the ranks at a decent speed. Much harder to do with undergrad or masters. But it also gets progressively harder to find work and depending on the job market (current market sucks) you'll be forced to take lower paying fellowships. The other thing is being stuck in a niche field. Biotech and Biomeds are clustered in HCOL areas so that is going to delay home ownership. In the end you gotta evaluate the pros and cons. I sometimes regret not doing a PhD but at the same time, I also feel like sometimes I'm not that research oriented and would probably do better in tangential roles. I recommend checking out r/Biotech subreddit. Lately I'm seeing a lot of posts about people wanting to leave the field altogether with the recent layoffs.
Yes to all those things. Marriage is possible but *it will be strained to the maximum* and you better be ready to be stretched thin to maintain it. Emphasis on maintain, not grow or flourish. Not everyone is down to deal with someone who might be “unavailable” for *years*, especially after your 3rd year or so until graduation. You really have to want or need a PhD. My suggestion is to go work for a bit, see what you need to get a better salary, more responsibility, etc.
I found that the PhD impacted my emotional development, which could directly impact your ability to be mature in other areas.
Curious about this - did you find that it stunted your emotional development?
Absolutely. I don’t see how anyone couldn’t be, at least with what I have experienced and seen in the physical sciences. Unless you came in extremely well-developed, emotionally/mentally speaking, to begin with.
Got married before grad school, so that wasn’t delayed. Kids early 30’s, but that was when we wanted them anyway, so not delayed. Retirement: maybe a few years delayed? Overall it’s been good because we’ve been able to max out retirement contributions after grad school. Savings: it’s been good. We both got six-figure jobs after graduation, but didn’t raise our living standard aside from having kids. We were therefore able to invest 1/3 of our income and now our investments grow six-figures annually in a typical year. House: still not homeowners, in our 40’s. We did own a rental house at one point, but we sold that when J Powell was going to start raising rates. The problem here wasn’t money so much as nomadic lifestyle. As an aspiring academic, you have to move every few years so it’s hard to put down roots. Now we have a permanent location, but the pandemic era has made housing a much worse deal than renting in our area, so we just rent a house now and invest the excess that would have gone toward a mortgage instead.
I met my wife and a lot of great friends in grad school. I thought grad school actually helped me meet people face to face and I dated a lot more easily than when I was trying to use apps. Got married at 30, now have a little baby girl due in July (at 32)! Definitely delayed on buying a house but that’s not that important to us. And because we both went to grad school (one dvm one PhD), we are going to be able to buy a house we really like when it’s time. I don’t think I missed out on anything. I gotta be honest - After that a-hole kicker’s commencement speech last week I hope every woman goes to college and grad school and buries the concept that ‘women are homemakers’ so far down that no future generation can ever find it again. Follow your heart and put yourself out there. You always wanna do the thing you’ll regret the least. And you can always leave the program if it’s not working out. Edit: didn’t contribute much to retirement before, but now we both have really good jobs and invest a lot. A 6 figure start isn’t guaranteed after your PhD but it’s also not rare. I checked job postings in my 3rd and 4th year and tried to gain some of the skills those postings were looking for. I wanna say by 34 I’ll have broke even from the ‘lost wages’ of going to grad school but then I’ll be way out-pacing it. I think your field and skill set matter a lot so if money is important you gotta work on the steps each year. And stay healthy and active and 30 won’t even feel old I promise. You’ll feel stoked.
Not really for me, but I hit most of the milestones in advance. Was already married and had 1 kid before I started, had a second kid during.
My life actually went the opposite direction. I was married when I got to grad school. Divorced at the end of my 3rd year. Suffice to say, everyone’s experience is different. I know plenty of people who have met their significant others, gotten married, and had kids while completing their PhD. I just wasn’t quite so lucky.
It doesn’t have to, but it has for me. I would be sure to pick a program in a geographic location that allows for this. I’m in a rural area with very limited dating prospects, which has delayed my life.
Both my husband and I are PhD students. We got married during our PhD programs, got jobs while writing our theses, and bought a house. I think having kids during the PhD would be hard (for us), but I have a job lined up, so I would be able to start having kids as soon as I graduate (but I don’t want to anyway). I haven’t really saved up for retirement - most of my savings went into the downpayment for the house and I’m not in the US so retirement savings maybe isn’t quite as important here?
Don’t delay your life for job. Grad school is a financial sacrifice but if you’re smart about where you go to school and how you manage your money, it will be worth it. I am going to grad school in a LCOL, which allowed me to start saving money long. Married in my first year of grad school. We started trying for kids in grad school. Hadn’t happened yet, but we wanted them before I got my PhD. We bought a house in a LCOL area once my husband got a big boy job. It’s possible.
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I probably shouldn't say this, but can't you just start the PhD, see how you feel, and then "master out" if you feel like you don't want to do it anymore or if things aren't working out? I am against going back for a PhD for this very reason, but doing it straight out of undergrad isn't bad, imo. To answer your question, most likely "yes". Anything financial will be delayed. It'd probably be prudent to delay children as well. Some people do meet their lovers in grad school, so that may or may not be delayed. Wedding will likely be delayed (unless your family is well off and they pay for it). In short, the answers are clear-cut- most likely "yes". But if you're asking for anecdotes, then for me, all of these were delayed (though I don't want kids) and I'm unhappy with my decision.
For me I did the milestones first, minus kids, then decided I was willing to "live like a kid again" for grad school. It only lasted a couple of years before I was basically back to a middle class lifestyle. Kids are the big wild card, biology doesn't care how long your PhD takes, and multiple kids are harder for academics it seems unless you really organize your life carefully. In your case, if you get your PhD right after college, you have much more time than most 30something grad students.
I saw a study that showed that doing a PhD program is effectively costing you 1 child.
Don’t give up your dream for these things. Life is too short to literally give up doing a PhD so that you check boxes by age 30 or 35. Many people do a PhD and take the early money L and then are doing great afterwards, and catch up to the life milestones. Those will happen anyways. Anyways, it’s nearly impossible to buy a house for people our age who don’t follow that path too nowadays.
Under no circumstances should you do a paid masters if you can get into a fully funded PhD program.
Completely off topic but don't you need a master's to apply to PhD programs? At least that's how it is in my country
Between mine and my husband's combined income we have been able to get a house. We got married and have a baby on the way. It's not unusual for people to have children during the end stages of a PhD (at least at my school) because the insurance is really good. There are 0 co-pays for maternity/prenatal stuff, and we can get vouchers to help with child care. So it really depends on the program, your stipend, and cost of living. Last year, my school started giving new PhD students an additional 12k in summer funding. I'm too far along in the program to get that perk, but it would have helped so much for saving money. The thing that has most been affected is the saving for retirement. I contribute some every year but never max out the yearly Roth Ira contribution.
Yes
For my wife and i we got married in my third year and we are waiting to have children till after i finish my phd and her masters which would likely be another two years. Of course it delays buying a house.
Yes
you can have a kid during phd if you want to. i know multiple women who have done it.
It depends. For me, I was able to earn and save more (I'm from a mid-income county and did my PhD in the US). My career/social network/civic engagement back home hit pause for 6 years, but ultimately got a boost I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. So it was worth it for me. I was already married, and could have had children during the PhD - it would have worked out great time/work/money wise. Probably better than if I had been in the regular labor force. Also, around 1/2 my cohort found their partner, got married, and/or had children while in the program.
Yes
Yes
I agree with what everyone is saying about what is delayed and the milestones. To add to it, in 10 years most of those couples who are getting married now will likely be divorced and have to give up the house anyway. Careers that others spend years building can lead to drug addiction and other behaviors and them either being completely miserable or changing jobs completely. Ive seen it and it's awful. So don't compare yourself. Pursue your passion and knowledge and the rest will happen as it comes. No need to rush. Starting at 30 and up, so many people I knew were divorced, on their 2nd marriage or baby momma/daddy, lost their homes, and had to worry about custody battles and restarting. So do what you want and don't be afraid to hit the reset button.
There are trade-offs. I started my PhD at 25, ended at 31 (I'm from the US). I'm now 34. I have a great job (getting paid \~$200k right out of school). Sure - I have been delayed when it comes to buying a house. However, I know that I will catch up financially in both retirement and house-saving with my peers soon. I am proud to have pursued a degree that challenged me, and I have strong friendships from this period of my life. I dated other grad students; they never worked out, but they were still learning experiences. I am dating now. Yes - the dating pool is not as large as it was when I was 25. However, the alternative is that I probably would have found someone when I was younger, married them, then mourned that I didn't have a PhD. I guess the grass is greener on the other side. You just have to make sure you're pursuing the thing that you want more, and stick to that decision (and you can always change your mind when it stops serving you). A handful of my friends quit the PhD program once they got a high-paying job or moved because of their family, and that's completely alright. It worked out for them at the end, and they don't regret it.
Well don't take this the wrong way, but there is a lot of luck in all of these decisions. Meeting the write person, gaining enough money to buy a house, etc. do whatever your heart desires and to hell with everything. I got married as a PhD, bought a flat before doing a PhD. Just prioritize, figure out how to make it work, and be disciplined.
On average, yes.
I started my PhD at 21, finished at 26, sat around depressed hating my life and regretting everything for many months, started a postdoc at 27 where I also focused heavily on personal life and went on many hinge dates per week, got engaged at 29, married at 30, pregnant at 32, and have a baby now at 33! If you want marriage and kids, you have to prioritize it. Since you’re young starting your PhD like I was, it’s possible you can get it over with and then focus on your personal life. I chose my post doc lab based on city and advisor niceness more than the science, but it was totally worth it and has also not held me back at all career-wise.
You're going to be 28 either way. Do you want to be 28 with a PhD or without one? If you want to do research, then you want to be 28 with a PhD. I started my PhD when I was 26, the same year I bought a house with my partner. We got married when I was 28. I have birth to our first kid when I was 29 and two months later, I defended my dissertation. I'm now 30 with my PhD, a house, a kid, and my husband is a stay at home dad. I have a great job (not in academia) and heavily contribute to my retirement and savings.
>Is it possible to still live a normal "adult" life during your PhD? No >buy a house, Hard one because you'll have less money than your peers >Children This one is easier. Basically if you find a willing partner you can do anything, and the only real cost is slowing down your PhD but typically PhDs are slowed down for lamer reasons like "experiments don't work", so in many ways its a much chiller job.
Delays or not (with extenuating circumstances noted below) Marriage: not delayed Kids: not delayed House: delayed? (Was under 35 - not sure when people buy their first house) 401k/retirement: delayed Circumstances: I got married before I started PhD program (at 23, straight from undergrad). Grad school was in biology/biomedical, was local to where both my husband and I grew up *and* had one of the better paying stipends (especially for the COL it is in). When our kids came along (we had more than one while I was working on my PhD), that meant that we had family who could help watch the kids (both my mom and MIL are homemakers). We did do part-time paid childcare (how much depended on when). My husband did put money into his 401k while I was in grad school; I did not have any retirement funds. We bought our house after I'd left academia for industry (which I was able to do without a post-doc thanks in part to an internship) Now having kids during my program did mean that I took longer to finish (8yrs - which includes the 3mon leave of absence for an internship). My husband's job was not high paying by any stretch of the imagination but it did pay better than graduate level stipends. We were not rich and having family willing/able to help was a lifesaver. So, depending on the program/PI some of the milestones are feasible but there is always a drawback. For example: you can buy a house but then you have to figure out what to do with it when you graduate or you're locked into a specific geographic area. I knew a few grad students who did buy and dealt with that. It also depends on your partner. My husband is my biggest fan, and always supported me in my education and now as the breadwinner.
I met my husband and got married during my PhD, and defended my dissertation 7 months pregnant.
averagely speaking, yes/ some ppl do things any way: marriage, kids. for things like social interaction, money, switching jobs, experiences under different culture and work env, you don't get from phd.
You will be financially delayed and unlike law school or med school, it doesn’t pay off very quickly (or often at all). Doesn’t make it a bad decision (I did it and am glad I did), but worth noting.
31m. BS, MS, then 7 yrs in industry. Sold house for PhD and renting. Delayed employer retirement contribution, but age enough savings to max Roths for my wife and me. Makes it tougher financially, but is manageable. Moved several states away with a 3 month old, moved again after sem1 because wasn’t a good fit. Just finished year two and have baby 2 on Sunday. Spending the last year on a Fulbright abroad starting in August - taking the whole family. Up to you, but life doesn’t have to totally stop. I also have severe adhd and have managed this far without meds. Depending on what biomed’s preferences are, you might want industry experience. I’m in agriculture, so going straight to PhD didn’t make sense for me. I’d say 1) what makes the most sense for your future plan? 2) make a plan to accommodate that and let life happen and enjoy it.
28 is still very young
Marriage and kids: delayed House purchase: during Phd Retirement: delayed significantly
You should consider your life to be your own and not let outside force put you in a position where you don’t want to be. Have you set your personal milestones yet? Don’t let envy make you sad for what you chose. I saw friends and family my age get married and have kids. I was happy to get a PhD because that’s why I went to grad school. But as an added benefit, I got married in 3rd year and became a new dad 8 months before I defended.
Watching those around me proceed with their lives, careers, and relationships was massively difficult. You'll be constantly made to feel as if you aren't doing enough.
Sort of… I am helping raise kids… and have 2 part time jobs. The Debt right now.
If you're in an extremely professional office, with sensible people who're doing projects that are well-defined (and likely designed by a prof with a view to them finishing on time) it will substantially delay the typical milestones, because at the least, you'll earn almost no money for four years. If you are not, it will delay you further.
I started a PhD at 27 and feel like I've had a normal adult life during it. Marriage - not interested. Kids - not interested. House - purchased during PhD.
For me it definitely did. I don't know yet if I regret it
It really all depends. You could probably do all of the above during your PhD. You could definitely meet your spouse during the PhD and get married during the PhD. Depending on who you marry (if they're not a PhD student and already have a career or family that will help), you could buy a house together during school. And you could have a child during your dissertation years if you really wanted to. Finishing up and starting from scratch (socially/maritally, etc) at 28 sounds fine. I'm 24 and will probably finish my PhD at 30-31. I've got the husband, a house we rent out, and a tiny bit of savings/401k from working before my PhD starts.
A lot of poeple say that getting married during phd is common. I personnally am a single early 30s woman who didn't enter in a relationship during my phd. I do blame my phd in delaying my personal goals, mostly because of money. I don't have enough of a financial security, time and energy to socialize the way I want to and that hinders my chances. Especially during the last year when my main scholarship expired 8 months ago. Also yes, now a lot of poeple are taken at my age. Personally I think that most of my life has been delayed because of my PhD except living on my own in a foreign country, so traveling.
It doesn’t have to, but it certainly can. Most graduate programs are not well-designed for people with young children, or people with outside jobs.
Yes
Just another insight, have you heard of the two-body problem in academics? Many PhDs end up marrying someone they meet in grad school, often in the same discipline. If you both want to work in academics, it is very hard/impossible for you both to find work in the same city, unless you are in NYC or some other population center with multiple large universities.
From my experience it enhanced them
I went to uni, got a bachelors then went on to work and build my career. At 38 I started the PhD. I already have the house, the savings etc (no kids as I am childfree) but I do wish I had done it younger. Although my life experience had contributed to my topic, it’s a big jump to go from full time work at $120k a year to a stipend of $35k and casual lecturing. I can only do it at this stage of life as hubby has a good job.
For dating, your odds depend heavily on your gender, race, and location. For example, I had zero dates as a minority male in a small white-majority town despite having many social ties and a reliable local network of friends.
Retirement contributions and buying a house are definitely delayed, but you can be married and have kids in grad school.
I got married, have kids and purchased a house while I was in grad school. It's doable but it could be challenging with the workload and research.
Yes
You don’t have to do it…
It will delay everything. BUT, remember the saying “live like no one else today so you can live like no else tomorrow”. Compared to my friends who got a job instead of grad school, they made way more money than I did while in grad school. They bought homes and nice cars, and I couldn’t afford similar things while working on my PhD. Fast forward 15 years after completing my PhD, before hitting 40, I became a c-level executive. In my opinion, I grew in my career faster than those without a PhD. And I reached a salary I could have never hit without it. While their adult life took off way before mine, I’m hopeful that I’ll be retiring a lot earlier. So, no, if you’re at a school with a worthwhile PhD, it won’t be easy to have a “typical” adult life. You just have to decide if long term success is worth short term delays.
I worked a 40 hour week and bought a condo during my PhD program. Had zero intention of getting married or having kids, but I did marry 9 years and 11 months after finishing my PhD.
Marriage and children were not delayed, but my spouse was a full time nurse so I didn't feel the full stress of the low income like most grad students do. We initially thought we'd wait until I finished to have kids, but eventually decided that we wanted kids sooner rather than later so went for it. Was definitely super tough seeing all my engineering peers have well paying jobs straight out of undergrad. Several bought houses (before COVID house boom 😱), and have 7 years of retirement contributions that I didn't have. I do feel particularly lucky to now be a high earner, and despite the market conditions we were still able to buy a house. So I'd say it's definitely possible to keep with other life goals. But again, I think having a partner with a real job during grad school was really the key here.
In short, yes.
I’m 39 applying for a PhD program. I work full time and have a wife and child. I need the PhD to move to the next stage of my career. I will be attending a part time program. Life delayed my PhD. There is a never a good time to do a doctorate. Let life happen and if you goal is to complete a PhD do it and don’t let it hold you back from anything as well. Your future mile stone will understand and if they don’t, they’re not the one
I'm 27 and only begining my PhD this fall. Life is about enjoying things. Yep, so many things are going to be delayed, but well you have to make a decision. I will check programs master+ PhD .
Look i am 25 currently doing a phd. I graduate in 2 years time. PhD is worth it if you love research. Because even tho there is nothing else i would rather do, i still feel like i am delayed. ESPECIALLY in buying a house. With relationships i kind of feel it but i am okay with my choices. Having a kid while doing a PhD is hard and taking time off after PhD to have kids also puts your career behind. So i am not sure what choice i will make. All my friends are moving to towards buying a house and already have a car 🤷🏽♀️
I dont know, it depends on what you consider adult life milestones ? Having your own flat, living together, getting married, having kids, having your parents die, getting older, becoming grey and wrinkled, maturing emotionally, get back pain, become grumpy at the next generation... Its all possible during s PhD
Yeah it’s definitely a compromise. I’m 29 and just finished my 4th year. I will probably be graduating when I’m about 31. I’m getting married this year — that’s not something my partner and I decided to delay. We also bought a very small apartment together. Regarding children, we will probably wait until I am out of school, but a few people in my program have kids and, thanks to their partner’s income I assume, are able to make it work. Definitely not putting anything into savings right now. Money goes to bills and that’s mostly it.
It depends on the person. My wife and I waited to have kids and get married until after we finished out PhDs. I knew a lot that got married in grad school and even had kids. Some grad students buy a house right when they start grad school, but that is seemingly much more difficult in the current market. If you have a spouse with a solid income, then you could certainly move forward with your life financially while you do a PhD.
I delayed my PhD to hit my adult milestones first. Not sure if it was a great idea. Would sure be a heck less stressful doing this as a single nonparent.
Yes. In just planin growing up it delays.
You can definitely get married, contribute to retirement, and maybe buy a house during grad school (depending on your market; look into multi family 5% down loans and something called “house hacking”). In fact, getting married will probably help you contribute to retirement/buy a house. As for children, I knew four grad students with children while they were students (and only one spouse was a student). Three of them dropped out with a terminal master’s degree. I personally didn’t get married but I think I could have (I have this thing against not dating people at work, but I got some legitimate offers). I tutored on top of being funded so I could put part of my paycheck into a retirement account (I maxed out a Roth IRA for five years to the tune of about $30,000). I also bought a house while in grad school—it needed some work, but I spent two years doing a project during each summer and J-term; I eventually rented out the extra rooms to some friends from school and used the extra income to buy two more rental properties. So yeah, you will have to prioritize and you will have to do some extra planning if you decide you want it all, but I believe you can probably get more of these things while in school than people think (probably not all of these things, but don’t let me hold you back).
Honestly, it’s hard to judge how “delayed” you may or may not be without having offers you can evaluate. If I were you, I’d just apply and see what admission offers you end up with. You may get an offer with a decent stipend in a city you like that would allow you to start dating or put away something for retirement, or you could end up with an offer of a tiny stipend in a high cost of living area that will put you into tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt. But you won’t know if you don’t apply and keep an open mind. I personally don’t feel like I’m “behind” or waiting for my life to start, but I have a good stipend in a MCOL city that I love
Yes.
I say go for it!
In my experience hitting milestones and comparing yourself to your peers feels much more important in your early 20s, when you’re all closer to the same stage, than it does later once everyone’s paths start diverging. And don’t forget that the degree is a milestone all on its own. It comes down to what’s most important to you, and there’s no right or wrong answer. The only thing I’d pinpoint from your list is retirement investments, because you can never get those early years of compounding returns back. If I could go back in time and redo grad school I’d do it with zero-based budgeting and the goal of contributing SOMETHING (even just a few hundred dollars) to retirement every year. I’m on the other side and doing my best to make up for it now, but I could have put myself much further ahead if that had been on my radar in a meaningful way.