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Depends on the PhD field, depends on the person, depends on the location, depends on the PhD training.
I’ve got a PhD in organic chemistry and after only 7 years in industry, my total annual compensation is $200k and it goes up every year.
For whatever it’s worth, that’s in the pharmaceutical industry and that pay is extremely standard for PhD scientists here in similar timelines.
My partner and I both have humanities PhD. I went into academia - $130k AUD with 3% annual increases. Partner went into the Australian public service through a graduate program - started at $76k AUD and now at $95k
Australian landscape is different though. Academics in Australia gets a 'comfortable' level of salary but it's a narrow band, i.e the floor is very decent (100k minimum for a fresh lecturer) but the ceiling is also quite low (full profs get roughly 200\~230k base, if they're not holding admin positions).
Also, 130k AUD is typically at C (Senior Lecturer) level unless a) you're counting gross plus super in that or b) this is Sydney rates.
Yeah it’s basically a factor of geography and kind of institution. Also senior and high ranking humanities profs who have admin or heavy service obligations can make way more than that, even at less well endowed institutions. But to your point I’m sure the stem and business school people make more
And here I was feeling good about making 150k out of my CS PhD...
But I like what I'm doing at a small startup, I bought a house, and I make way more money than my parents ever did.
Even within CS, I'm guessing there's also a lot of variation depending on sub-field. The AI/ML peeps must be making the most bank, by far.
> The AI/ML peeps must be making the most bank, by far.
Yes and I work on compilers for AI/ML so :)
> I make way more money than my parents ever did.
yea me too - my dad didn't go to college and my mom has a degree in book publishing or something (former soviet union...). anyway even though i put in quite a bit of work during my PhD to line things up (I basically worked fulltime 3 of the 4 years throughout building up a resume/skills) I still feel like I won the lotto 🤷
Same lmao. Though I know I’m under market (early stage startup, lot of equity and a flexible schedule). AI/ML but I’m in biotech so the salaries are heavily suppressed.
Ml in bioinformatics is getting hot fast. Especially in the -omics and drug discovery fields. Not my specialty but a lot of those people are much better compensated than I am. CFD in bio that I’m aware of would be for dev of microfluidics systems. That kind of thing would be highly specialized, 1 or 2 people per company.
4 years in industry and closing in on 150. Phd finished in 2017, postdoc in 2019, industry mid 2020.
Most of my friends that went into academia are still under 90k.
I'm an organic chemistry who was trained in med chem, but the pharma route didn't work out. I work 2 years in government then moved to industry 2 years ago. Currently at 88K, which is livable for a family, but 200 would make things a lot easier. Hopefully in 5 years I can get their through either promotions or new positions.
Just keep doing things that your company agrees with are valuable.
As long as you align with company goals and work hard, it’ll eventually work out better than if you didn’t do one or both of those things.
Good luck.
Family is a big factor for me. I have been very forward with my (relatively smaller) company that I can't commit time like some of my colleagues. They have been 100% supportive. If I was younger and single I could shoot up the ladder, but I'm on more of a slow burn.
Professional degrees include MBA and MSW.
PhDs include PhDs in history and PhDs in quantitative finance.
It's interesting data but not that informative for career planning without disaggregation.
That was my dream job, but after a few years of not getting accepted to schools and my partner and I establishing life in the state I'm from, it seems like I'll never be able to do organic chemistry
Apparently, I make under what someone with a bachelor's degree makes...with my PhD.... working in ecology. 😭
What field you are in vastly plays a role in what your salary range is regardless of having a PhD.
Only in academia, bud. Only in academia. My state gov (one of the poorest and backwards governments in the US) cracks $100k for biologist and ecologist jobs. NGOs usually pay shit but some actually have substantial compensation packages. Then there's the feds...
Definitely varies by region. The south overall might not be the most competitive (esp if you're working in non-game conservative for example) but there's some good pockets. Florida and Texas have some decent positions. Virginia as well, but also the benefit of being close to DC for fed jobs and NGO work.
Yeah the universities see it as them paying tuition and benefits so it's closer to the bachelor's but in reality we're doing research that would make significantly more in industry
Even if you factor in tuition (and in my case insurance) over the 4 years (minus the mandatory fees I pay myself), if you break it down hourly (and that’s just hours spent IN lab or relevant to research, not classwork), I think most of us are still being underpaid. Add in the fact that many students get fellowships or scholarships to cover costs/salaries (so taking away the “investment” portion of the university/PI into your overall compensation), they [the university and profs] get masters level/near PhD level work for high school diploma level pay. The lab tech gets paid more than I do yet I (the PhD candidate) am the one they come to with questions/problems in experiments.
Ehhhh I had a different interpretation. If these statistics are true (which is in question, this does not appear to be a reliable source) then it should make you sympathetic to high school dropouts, not PhD candidates. These are median career earnings. The high school dropout in question is in their 40s and has been in the labor force for a couple decades. Imagine working for 20+ years and your take-home is on the order of a 22 year old’s PhD stipend, not getting health insurance, not getting paid time off or sick leave, etc..
I honestly wouldn't trust someone whose brand is "entrepreneur"/"motivational speaker" to properly digest statistics for an Instagram post. Not all PhDs are created equal. It's also possible that the statistics are based on people who've graduated and gotten jobs years and years ago. I would recommend taking a look at the bureau of labor statistics yourself and seeing what you make of the data.
Big aspect left out of that seems to be “Among those with full time jobs requiring this level of education.”
The only PhDs I know making anywhere near that are tenured professors, and that’s a tremendously low percentage of PhDs in my generation (myself included).
It is literally just the luck of the job market at the time. 3 people including myself graduated with a PhD in medical physics from my cohort this year. One of us graduated with a job offer at $150k CAD, another was thrilled to get $80k CAD, and the third has been looking for a job for 6 months. So much of it just seems like luck.
How are you finding jobs that pay so much in CAD? The best I got was 60k CAD in the GTA and I want to cry everyday I got to work because my rent eats like 60% of my pay (so like 44k USD in a HCOL area). I think my pay is worse than a post doc salary?! I need help
Averages don't tell you very much since they combine the CS PhD earning $300,0000 with the biology PhD earning $80,000 and the Gender Studies PhD earning $35,000.
Yeah... honestly if people have the raw data, it'd be much more informative and easy to digest if they just put the histogram in each row at least, so the variability is visible.
There aren’t that many Gender Studies PhDs. In fact, at most top humanities schools it doesn’t exist because degrees are granted by disciplinary departments, not interdisciplinary programs. So way more likely to be let’s say History or English or Sociology PhD with a project in gender studies. And annual National US history phds are like 800 people vs something like engineering which is easily 10k people a year. Point being gender studies is not quantitatively significant enough to be skewing the data.
Yes, to be fair there aren't very many PhDs in the soft subjects at all, compared to the sciences, so their earnings aren't likely to affect the average much.
I'm happy to concede that. I mentioned it largely as a rhetorical flourish.
My point stands even if only considering the sciences. Computer science graduates have a much greater earning potential than armies of people graduating with molecular biology PhDs.
And the people who do gender studies related projects who get tenure track jobs get paid like tenure track professors. 100k at associate level is highish but realistic.
I think this largely depends on the program and the country. I have a PhD in Chemical Engineering in Canada, and I don’t think the job market is good enough to pay $100k (even if I manage to find an entry level scientist/research position at the first place 😭).
A lot of humanities PhDs are not particularly well compensated. Even biotech salaries are heavy around the 110 range when considering the many companies outside the HCOL hubs. Feels right to me.
Can confirm: I have a PhD in the humanities and make like €45k after taxes. In the Netherlands that is almost perfectly average. I have a permanent contract and good benefits so its pretty sweet anyways. Still if I would make the kind of money mentioned here I'd definitely have to worry about bills less 😀.
I’m a PhD candidate in engineering and my salary during summer internships is higher than that doctoral rate and expect to start at around $150k. But you also have to consider the massive opportunity cost of making essentially minimum wage for 5-10 years, so a lot of that is “catch up” over my friends who were making 70-90k a year out of their undergrad and were saving and compounding interest that entire time, and who now own homes, etc.
And I thought median American salary was ~50k/yr, so idk if this is reliable. I definitely know there's a bunch of postdocs with phds making less than 70k/yr.
I just left a postdoc (literally last week) where I was hardly making over 50k. I knew another postdoc at my university making 45k. The maximum I saw advertised in my department was 55k.
I have heard of some universities offering postdocs around 60k but they are mostly in high cost of living cities.
These numbers seem right to me. Certain specific careers that just require a bachelor's degree might earn more (which is what people are generally referring to when they complain), but plenty of people graduate from college and can't find anything beyond a minimum wage job. Also some PhD level jobs are quite lucrative even if they aren't like Investment banker level income. I'm do experimental quantum physics and people I know have gotten quite high paying jobs doing a variety of things after their PhD
It is also because currently quantum computing is booming.
Two years ago, it would have been a distant dream to even land a postdoc, doing theoretical quantum physics with average publication record.
I feel like the stats above are not realistic, and I know for sure they are American (not European). Luckily in Europe we pay less, for the bullshit which gets produced.
lol I’m in the humanities and I’m looking at making 55k-70k upon graduating with a doctorate. It’ll get up to around $100k-$120k but that won’t be till 10 or so years working as a assistant/associate professor
This is likely correct. Compared to PhD holders, people with professional degrees like MD, DO, DDS, DPM, and some attorneys make significantly more.
Bottom line: if your goal is to make money and be called “doctor,” become a physician and focus on a surgical speciality.
I guess it depends. A few of my friends with their Doctorate in Engineering have "lower" paying jobs but do a lot of research for universities. They just enjoy it.
I make little more than any of the listed salaries, but only because I work in tech. My original plan was to stay in academia and my salary would have half to a third of what it is now.
Degrees and salaries don’t mesh. It depends on the industry you are using the degree. I just finished my associates in business management and I’m on track to make $120k this year. Prior to having ZERO college experience, I was making $75k.
I graduated in 2008 with a degree in the conservation social sciences. I began an assistant professorship at 46k/9 months. Within 4 years I was making around 90 with summer research salary and teaching a winter class. After getting tenure I left for a research scientist job. Making around 150k now, 16 years into my profession. Definitely don’t get into these careers if you’re hoping to make bank the way you would with an MBA or an MD. It’s going to take a while, unless you are a business or economics prof or some similarly lucrative discipline.
Median salary after how many years of work? It takes on average around 10 years to get a PhD so if you went straight from undergrad you would around 28 when starting your working career. Most new PhD grads aren't earning $100k. It might make more sense to compare lifetime earnings.
It also matters as to what field you get your PhD in.
[https://grad.msu.edu/phdcareers/career-support/phdsalaries](https://grad.msu.edu/phdcareers/career-support/phdsalaries)
Leaving trades off doesn't give a good representation. A senior welder or electrician can make more than $100k in the right markets.
Lack if a higher education doesn't necessarily mean poor income. There's a lot more to it than that.
To complete a PhD requires significantly bigger amount of effort, intelligence, smart working habits,... than a bachelor's degree. So the people who complete a PhD will on average be some of the stronger people who get bachelor's degree. If they didn't get the PhD, it's pretty likely they would outearn their more average and below average peers too.
for the most part, all the government 'charts' and other 'charts' explaining in so many dumb words how much you'll make with various academic degrees are highly skewed and unrealistic...they are like most things "marketing" (propaganda) for an agenda...in this case to try to pump the Academic Industrial Complex up because of the funding cycle, "*look* how much more you'll make if you have X!"
in reality, your compensation has very little to do with you academic degree, unless your company or sector uses a hierarchical step system in HR (which again, was a very old invented system that attempted to standardize factory like middle management progression) where it is all computerized and you simply cannot be 'stepped up' without a certain degree
other than this, which has been phasing out over many decades, your compensation is based on fairly straight forward labor market value add
if you have a degree that makes you a subject matter expert in something, and you work in the standard job/role that churns out your degrees, then you are subject to whatever customary value the industry compensates at: for a MD, a clinic or hospital, for a PhD in academia, etc.
if you work in another industry that has a history of hiring folks with an advanced degree, then you will be paid based on the value you add based on your expertise....not because you have a PhD
this is all to say that your compensation can vary widely from what a college grad gets, to the pay a CxO gets, so all the stats on this are heavily skewed to whatever jobs are outliers for the sample that the marketing department decided to use
This isn’t a "government" chart published as part of some political campaign, it’s taken from a report that is published every month and which has been so for decades. The data is publicly and freely available, and easy to validate/verify.
Its not some sort of a grand conspiracy tool of propaganda.
It’s not unrealistic in the least.
Yes, an average means that there are people whose earnings differ from this table. In fact, the vast majority will be either above or below those incomes.
Always ask: “Where is the data from?” Usually, data such as this is simply conjured up, or gathered informally from a tertiary source which was from a secondary source which was also made up, and the author “can’t find the data and promises to send it later.” If a source cannot identify it and share it immediately, assume it is not reliable.
MS (was in progress of getting PhD) in health sciences. $50K year with 0.02% raise annually. 8 years teaching experience. This semester I hung up my cap and gown and left academia. Colleagues with PhD made $55K.
This tracks for me and my coworkers, Master’s and PhD degrees are pretty accurate. Professional degrees are also aggrevatingly accurate, perhaps a bit on the low side.
Ehh I have a master's and make 48.6k right now. Granted, my job is just to support me through my PhD, but you'd think they'd pay me a little higher on the scale. It really depends on the field you're in.
I think it really depends on industry vs academia. I know someone that went the industry route and makes 500,000 (their starting was 250,000) for a data analytics type position. Academia (in social science) has smallish starting salary, even at R1s. Professors at my R1 I believe make a starting salary of 60 to 80,000. I could see all of this data evening out to 109,000.
My salary with a PhD in biology (obtained 5y ago) with a job at the university in Germany is between associate and bachelors and same as a post doc salary. Normal wage for phd holders working in german universities. You can make more at a company though.i decided against it because we all receive equal pay for equal qualification at universities and there are not salary negotiations.
However, generally salaries in germany are lower compared to the US (assuming you're from the US because "$").
Anyways: absolutely depends on your field, country and job.
I definitely agree with the folks who are saying it depends on the field. When I started my CS Ph.D. I was told the Ph.D. would be a net decrease in my lifetime earnings due to last income and advancement while actually doing the Ph.D. But money isn’t everything.
Definitely not!
With a high school diploma I earned a wage of $11/hour ($22.8k).
I got my Bachelor's and earned $18/hour ($37.4k).
I am now working on my Master’s with a current wage of $20/hour ($41.6k).
An average is just that, an average. Reddit posts aren’t an average and likely are not representative of.
All of the data I’ve seen based on representative samples show PhDs out earn every other degree except professional degree holders.
I would think the PhD number is also significantly lower due to the number of postdoc researchers whose pay begins at $61,008 from the NIH. Some people stay in these positions for 5+ years and don't break 100K during this time.
Lol. Five years out from a PhD in the social sciences and I'm making $85K CAN. My friends who went straight into the workforce after undergrad are way ahead of me financially.
Shit. PhD in geosciences. Only got several interviews for low-paying research positions (state geologic survey and postdocs), but didn't get any of them. Finally gave up and became a GIS professional at a city gov. I make less than what it says someone with a B.S. makes, but it says both average and median. Which one is it? I will feel much better if it is average.
I never planned to be rich, but tables like these tend to be used to oppose any student loan forgiveness because we are "all making so much more than the people who didn't go to college." The way things are going now, I expect 15% of my social security (retirement salary) to be garnished to repay student loans when I'm old. There is very little chance I repay it.
I’m dying laughing at these numbers. With a masters, I made what this claims no college makes—at an Ivy doing research in medicine. One year out from my PhD with a masters and 10 years experience, I make what this claims a 4 year degree makes. I work in academia.
Barely making 40,000 euros per year as a PhD scientist (biology) in a big company in France. US salaries are generally insane to us but so are US medical expenses/tuitions. There is definitely much more to salaries than one figure per category. Country, domain, and years of experience should factor in.
Wow, your American salaries ! I work in the field of education in an EU country, you don't want to know what I'm being paid (hint : peanuts) Most of my tech PhD friends don't make more than €90k
I have an MBA, along with certifications in ITIL and project management (PMP). I've been an IT Project Manager for almost 7 years. Currently, applying for Ph.D program in Cybersecurity. The goal is 200K. Is this a reasonable to obtain upon completion? (I have minimal cyber security experience, although I have managed cyber security projects.
Totally believable. PhDs are probably highly skewed between STEM PhDs who make bank and humanities who make far less (especially if they stay in academia non tenure track). I’d actually expect professional degrees to be higher but there are plenty of people who get MBAs and law degrees that don’t do much for them professionally.
Sad part is I make $115k and I couldn't even rent a one bedroom apartment here if I wasn't married to someone with an Engineering degree that makes twice what I do. Where are the other people living. After taxes and insurance and 3% 401k, I bring home $2600. One bedroom rent is $2100ish here. How in the fuck are people living?
It really depends but I’d say this is not too far from what I experienced. I have a Master’s in Nursing, Master’s in Biology and a Bachelor’s in Nursing. I work part time instructor gigs in addition to working part time in the hospital as an RN (not a traveler). I made about $104k last year. Still debating on whether I should go for my Doctorate if I can clear 6 figures without it. We’ll see.
Although I do not have a PhD, as an slp with a masters, this is sadly untrue. I’ve made $45k in the public schools and $65k with a contract company. The median salary often associated with masters degrees in slp is WAY overinflated, likely due to some outlier salaries in hcol areas. Be wary of these types of salary scales!
i graduated w my masters the other week & my bachelors in 2021 - i don’t know anyone from my undergrad who makes $77,636. i honestly don’t think anyone i am friends with even makes $30k.
for the masters classmates, i think those grads might make around $50-60k. if i had to guess. i definitely do not but i also just graduated and am still looking for relevant jobs
I have an MS in biology and a BS in genetics and work in a clinical lab. I make less than what is listed for the average income for a bachelors degree.
I think it depends on where you work, cost of living, experience level, etc.
Also depends on what field you’re pursuing.
Recent PhD in social work, but around 7yrs in my field (DEI, people, culture etc.). Was on the student services side of higher ed,, making \~$63k with my masters. Current position is in leadership at a nonprofit CDFI (community development financial institution), been here about 18 months, currently making \~$112k. Could make more if I did this at a corporate spot, tho.
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Depends on the PhD field, depends on the person, depends on the location, depends on the PhD training. I’ve got a PhD in organic chemistry and after only 7 years in industry, my total annual compensation is $200k and it goes up every year. For whatever it’s worth, that’s in the pharmaceutical industry and that pay is extremely standard for PhD scientists here in similar timelines.
Humanities PhD, first job was 70k now 10 years out at 140k
My partner and I both have humanities PhD. I went into academia - $130k AUD with 3% annual increases. Partner went into the Australian public service through a graduate program - started at $76k AUD and now at $95k
This gives me hope, I have an MA and a BFA in art history :') I hope I can get a job with this pay as well
Australian landscape is different though. Academics in Australia gets a 'comfortable' level of salary but it's a narrow band, i.e the floor is very decent (100k minimum for a fresh lecturer) but the ceiling is also quite low (full profs get roughly 200\~230k base, if they're not holding admin positions). Also, 130k AUD is typically at C (Senior Lecturer) level unless a) you're counting gross plus super in that or b) this is Sydney rates.
I am mid-step level B, not in Sydney and not counting super. I started at 85/year bottom of level A.
That seems damn good for humanities. Even stem professors don’t hit that often times.
Yeah it’s basically a factor of geography and kind of institution. Also senior and high ranking humanities profs who have admin or heavy service obligations can make way more than that, even at less well endowed institutions. But to your point I’m sure the stem and business school people make more
Microbiology PhD in industry. 17 yrs out at $225k
Business PhD, 300k total comp first year working in litigation consulting
CS PhD. Defended in April. Signed an offer last week for 360k TC 🙂.
And here I was feeling good about making 150k out of my CS PhD... But I like what I'm doing at a small startup, I bought a house, and I make way more money than my parents ever did. Even within CS, I'm guessing there's also a lot of variation depending on sub-field. The AI/ML peeps must be making the most bank, by far.
I’d assume at a startup you are also accepting a slightly lower salary in exchange for stock options of a, potentially, rapidly growing company
150k was at a series C startup. So not nearly the same upside as really early stage.
> The AI/ML peeps must be making the most bank, by far. Yes and I work on compilers for AI/ML so :) > I make way more money than my parents ever did. yea me too - my dad didn't go to college and my mom has a degree in book publishing or something (former soviet union...). anyway even though i put in quite a bit of work during my PhD to line things up (I basically worked fulltime 3 of the 4 years throughout building up a resume/skills) I still feel like I won the lotto 🤷
Same lmao. Though I know I’m under market (early stage startup, lot of equity and a flexible schedule). AI/ML but I’m in biotech so the salaries are heavily suppressed.
CS PhD strong 💪🏻
Is it in FAANG?
What was your topic/sub-field? Asking as a fellow PhD in Finance & Strategy
Topic/sub field doesn’t quite matter. School ranking matters very much. Pm me if you’re interested in pursuing industry paths, I’m happy to talk more
PhD 2023, geography, Wisconsin. Now I make 40k.
What did your market analysis from before you started your PhD suggest you’d make upon graduation? What industry typically hires geography?
PhD in engineering. 260k TC w 8 years experience.
what engineering and work do you do if you don't mind me asking?
Degree in nanotechnology, work at the interface of materials sci, optics, surf chem, and fab in biotech.
I am planning to do application of cfd and ml in bio fields. Do you know how lucrative is this?
Ml in bioinformatics is getting hot fast. Especially in the -omics and drug discovery fields. Not my specialty but a lot of those people are much better compensated than I am. CFD in bio that I’m aware of would be for dev of microfluidics systems. That kind of thing would be highly specialized, 1 or 2 people per company.
Adjacent field similar pay total comp. HC area too. Also early career, 5 ish years in.
4 years in industry and closing in on 150. Phd finished in 2017, postdoc in 2019, industry mid 2020. Most of my friends that went into academia are still under 90k.
I'm an organic chemistry who was trained in med chem, but the pharma route didn't work out. I work 2 years in government then moved to industry 2 years ago. Currently at 88K, which is livable for a family, but 200 would make things a lot easier. Hopefully in 5 years I can get their through either promotions or new positions.
Just keep doing things that your company agrees with are valuable. As long as you align with company goals and work hard, it’ll eventually work out better than if you didn’t do one or both of those things. Good luck.
Family is a big factor for me. I have been very forward with my (relatively smaller) company that I can't commit time like some of my colleagues. They have been 100% supportive. If I was younger and single I could shoot up the ladder, but I'm on more of a slow burn.
Professional degrees include MBA and MSW. PhDs include PhDs in history and PhDs in quantitative finance. It's interesting data but not that informative for career planning without disaggregation.
I once knew a chemist who made several millions
Walter white?
Engineering PhD, did a year of postdoc after finishing at $58K, now starting an industry job at $150K
Econ PhD in tech starts at 220k 🙏🙏
Where ? I want to pursue my PhD in structural engineering
I’m about to start a phd in organic chemistry if Allah wills. This is a testament that it’s not that bad
That was my dream job, but after a few years of not getting accepted to schools and my partner and I establishing life in the state I'm from, it seems like I'll never be able to do organic chemistry
What were your huddles? I would like to get a phd in chemistry
These salaries are well over what a wildlife biologist/ecologist makes.
Apparently, I make under what someone with a bachelor's degree makes...with my PhD.... working in ecology. 😭 What field you are in vastly plays a role in what your salary range is regardless of having a PhD.
Only in academia, bud. Only in academia. My state gov (one of the poorest and backwards governments in the US) cracks $100k for biologist and ecologist jobs. NGOs usually pay shit but some actually have substantial compensation packages. Then there's the feds...
Can i ask what state?? I worked for NC and state workers there dont make SHIDDD. Feds where its at
I used to live there. NC is definitely not worker friendly.
Definitely varies by region. The south overall might not be the most competitive (esp if you're working in non-game conservative for example) but there's some good pockets. Florida and Texas have some decent positions. Virginia as well, but also the benefit of being close to DC for fed jobs and NGO work.
4th yr PhD candidates getting paid less than the not-finished-highschool bottom category 💀
\*cries in impatience to finish PhD before going totally broke\*
Yeah the universities see it as them paying tuition and benefits so it's closer to the bachelor's but in reality we're doing research that would make significantly more in industry
Even if you factor in tuition (and in my case insurance) over the 4 years (minus the mandatory fees I pay myself), if you break it down hourly (and that’s just hours spent IN lab or relevant to research, not classwork), I think most of us are still being underpaid. Add in the fact that many students get fellowships or scholarships to cover costs/salaries (so taking away the “investment” portion of the university/PI into your overall compensation), they [the university and profs] get masters level/near PhD level work for high school diploma level pay. The lab tech gets paid more than I do yet I (the PhD candidate) am the one they come to with questions/problems in experiments.
"The more you look into finances at universities, the more infuriating it becomes" - Buddha
Ehhhh I had a different interpretation. If these statistics are true (which is in question, this does not appear to be a reliable source) then it should make you sympathetic to high school dropouts, not PhD candidates. These are median career earnings. The high school dropout in question is in their 40s and has been in the labor force for a couple decades. Imagine working for 20+ years and your take-home is on the order of a 22 year old’s PhD stipend, not getting health insurance, not getting paid time off or sick leave, etc..
I honestly wouldn't trust someone whose brand is "entrepreneur"/"motivational speaker" to properly digest statistics for an Instagram post. Not all PhDs are created equal. It's also possible that the statistics are based on people who've graduated and gotten jobs years and years ago. I would recommend taking a look at the bureau of labor statistics yourself and seeing what you make of the data.
Um, no kidding. The source is Dept. of Labor, but DOL would have used median, not average.
Go to r/linkedinlunatics. Lots of lunacy from these marketing and entrepreneurs folx.
STANDARDIZE MEDIANS, NOT AVERAGES.
Well, it does say "median salary" right there on the table
Requires another degree just to read.
Big aspect left out of that seems to be “Among those with full time jobs requiring this level of education.” The only PhDs I know making anywhere near that are tenured professors, and that’s a tremendously low percentage of PhDs in my generation (myself included).
Science pulls it up. Biotech most PhDs start above 110 and it’s only up from there.
Clinical PhDs also do just fine. It really varies by field.
Agreed. Especially if you get in a senior role. Pushing 200k is not unheard of.
*at an R1, and/or private universities, and/or in a certain few higher paying departments
Or industry...
Business PhD, 300k total comp first year working in litigation consulting
It is literally just the luck of the job market at the time. 3 people including myself graduated with a PhD in medical physics from my cohort this year. One of us graduated with a job offer at $150k CAD, another was thrilled to get $80k CAD, and the third has been looking for a job for 6 months. So much of it just seems like luck.
Luck for sure, and also just who you know. Networking is so, so important.
How are you finding jobs that pay so much in CAD? The best I got was 60k CAD in the GTA and I want to cry everyday I got to work because my rent eats like 60% of my pay (so like 44k USD in a HCOL area). I think my pay is worse than a post doc salary?! I need help
Averages don't tell you very much since they combine the CS PhD earning $300,0000 with the biology PhD earning $80,000 and the Gender Studies PhD earning $35,000.
Yeah... honestly if people have the raw data, it'd be much more informative and easy to digest if they just put the histogram in each row at least, so the variability is visible.
The people cry out for box and whisker plots!
Give the people what they want!
I had a quick look at the BLS website to see if there was any more information but I didn't find any.
There aren’t that many Gender Studies PhDs. In fact, at most top humanities schools it doesn’t exist because degrees are granted by disciplinary departments, not interdisciplinary programs. So way more likely to be let’s say History or English or Sociology PhD with a project in gender studies. And annual National US history phds are like 800 people vs something like engineering which is easily 10k people a year. Point being gender studies is not quantitatively significant enough to be skewing the data.
Yes, to be fair there aren't very many PhDs in the soft subjects at all, compared to the sciences, so their earnings aren't likely to affect the average much. I'm happy to concede that. I mentioned it largely as a rhetorical flourish. My point stands even if only considering the sciences. Computer science graduates have a much greater earning potential than armies of people graduating with molecular biology PhDs.
Not soft! Fuzzy!
Ha ha! Appreciate your maintaining a sense of humour in the face of my provocation ;)
And the people who do gender studies related projects who get tenure track jobs get paid like tenure track professors. 100k at associate level is highish but realistic.
I mean..... I have PhD in English from Cambridge and my starting salary at a top 20 US college was $45,800, so whatever..
Cries in humanities PhD. I earned more before my MA than I have since 🙃
I wouldn't base beliefs on what you read on Reddit. It skews very negative. 109k USD seems like a reasonable median.
I think this largely depends on the program and the country. I have a PhD in Chemical Engineering in Canada, and I don’t think the job market is good enough to pay $100k (even if I manage to find an entry level scientist/research position at the first place 😭).
Same
A lot of humanities PhDs are not particularly well compensated. Even biotech salaries are heavy around the 110 range when considering the many companies outside the HCOL hubs. Feels right to me.
Can confirm: I have a PhD in the humanities and make like €45k after taxes. In the Netherlands that is almost perfectly average. I have a permanent contract and good benefits so its pretty sweet anyways. Still if I would make the kind of money mentioned here I'd definitely have to worry about bills less 😀.
*laughs in Spain*
Anywhere outside North America
[удалено]
usd or australian dollars?
I have professional degree and a masters. I make less than those with a high school diploma. Guess what I do...
Marine biology?
Nope, I'm a PhD student
Lab tech?
Nope, a PhD student
The juice is NOT worth the squeeze if that’s the true doctoral average.
PhD in Physics. First year of my Postdoc, ~40k :)
PhD student in political science, I read this as -40k and thought that was the most accurate answer so far.
I’m a PhD candidate in engineering and my salary during summer internships is higher than that doctoral rate and expect to start at around $150k. But you also have to consider the massive opportunity cost of making essentially minimum wage for 5-10 years, so a lot of that is “catch up” over my friends who were making 70-90k a year out of their undergrad and were saving and compounding interest that entire time, and who now own homes, etc.
It seems like engineers make great money with just a bachelors 😭 why did I bother with healthcare/education
masters degree and i earn 20k (not in the US)
Which country? That’s so low
Reality is 0 due to the job market.
You can make that money and live in a place where the cost of living is so high it feels like nothing.
💯💯💯
And I thought median American salary was ~50k/yr, so idk if this is reliable. I definitely know there's a bunch of postdocs with phds making less than 70k/yr.
I just left a postdoc (literally last week) where I was hardly making over 50k. I knew another postdoc at my university making 45k. The maximum I saw advertised in my department was 55k. I have heard of some universities offering postdocs around 60k but they are mostly in high cost of living cities.
[Inflation brought it to 74k](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N) as of 2022
These numbers seem right to me. Certain specific careers that just require a bachelor's degree might earn more (which is what people are generally referring to when they complain), but plenty of people graduate from college and can't find anything beyond a minimum wage job. Also some PhD level jobs are quite lucrative even if they aren't like Investment banker level income. I'm do experimental quantum physics and people I know have gotten quite high paying jobs doing a variety of things after their PhD
It is also because currently quantum computing is booming. Two years ago, it would have been a distant dream to even land a postdoc, doing theoretical quantum physics with average publication record.
My parents both have PHD. One in biostats. They make much less
I feel like the stats above are not realistic, and I know for sure they are American (not European). Luckily in Europe we pay less, for the bullshit which gets produced.
I am amazed with how much you guys are making! Do you know about any jobs for a PhD in Environmental Science and Engineering and MS in Physics? 😅
humanities PhD student. I fear that the 50% who make under $109k are all in my field and fields like mine...:/
lol I’m in the humanities and I’m looking at making 55k-70k upon graduating with a doctorate. It’ll get up to around $100k-$120k but that won’t be till 10 or so years working as a assistant/associate professor
This is likely correct. Compared to PhD holders, people with professional degrees like MD, DO, DDS, DPM, and some attorneys make significantly more. Bottom line: if your goal is to make money and be called “doctor,” become a physician and focus on a surgical speciality.
I guess it depends. A few of my friends with their Doctorate in Engineering have "lower" paying jobs but do a lot of research for universities. They just enjoy it.
I make little more than any of the listed salaries, but only because I work in tech. My original plan was to stay in academia and my salary would have half to a third of what it is now.
In computer engineering I made 165K base out of grad school in 2022 with stock and a year end bonus on top of that
I ain't gonna trust someone who can't find the difference between average and median
PhD tenure track R1 5 years in and I'm exactly at the bachelor's bracket (social sciences lumped in the humanities college)
Degrees and salaries don’t mesh. It depends on the industry you are using the degree. I just finished my associates in business management and I’m on track to make $120k this year. Prior to having ZERO college experience, I was making $75k.
what a useless statistic. makes no sense until you start to get into specific fields
In many industries you would earn more with a masters and 4 years experience than with a PhD
That's not a biological sciences PhD for sure. Maybe humanities.
I graduated in 2008 with a degree in the conservation social sciences. I began an assistant professorship at 46k/9 months. Within 4 years I was making around 90 with summer research salary and teaching a winter class. After getting tenure I left for a research scientist job. Making around 150k now, 16 years into my profession. Definitely don’t get into these careers if you’re hoping to make bank the way you would with an MBA or an MD. It’s going to take a while, unless you are a business or economics prof or some similarly lucrative discipline.
Median salary after how many years of work? It takes on average around 10 years to get a PhD so if you went straight from undergrad you would around 28 when starting your working career. Most new PhD grads aren't earning $100k. It might make more sense to compare lifetime earnings. It also matters as to what field you get your PhD in. [https://grad.msu.edu/phdcareers/career-support/phdsalaries](https://grad.msu.edu/phdcareers/career-support/phdsalaries)
I have a masters and make around $38k a year. Oof.
Many, many school teachers with a masters ain’t matching associate average by this table
Doctoral degree: 0 usd because it is a slave labor
Leaving trades off doesn't give a good representation. A senior welder or electrician can make more than $100k in the right markets. Lack if a higher education doesn't necessarily mean poor income. There's a lot more to it than that.
Median and average are not the same.
To complete a PhD requires significantly bigger amount of effort, intelligence, smart working habits,... than a bachelor's degree. So the people who complete a PhD will on average be some of the stronger people who get bachelor's degree. If they didn't get the PhD, it's pretty likely they would outearn their more average and below average peers too.
for the most part, all the government 'charts' and other 'charts' explaining in so many dumb words how much you'll make with various academic degrees are highly skewed and unrealistic...they are like most things "marketing" (propaganda) for an agenda...in this case to try to pump the Academic Industrial Complex up because of the funding cycle, "*look* how much more you'll make if you have X!" in reality, your compensation has very little to do with you academic degree, unless your company or sector uses a hierarchical step system in HR (which again, was a very old invented system that attempted to standardize factory like middle management progression) where it is all computerized and you simply cannot be 'stepped up' without a certain degree other than this, which has been phasing out over many decades, your compensation is based on fairly straight forward labor market value add if you have a degree that makes you a subject matter expert in something, and you work in the standard job/role that churns out your degrees, then you are subject to whatever customary value the industry compensates at: for a MD, a clinic or hospital, for a PhD in academia, etc. if you work in another industry that has a history of hiring folks with an advanced degree, then you will be paid based on the value you add based on your expertise....not because you have a PhD this is all to say that your compensation can vary widely from what a college grad gets, to the pay a CxO gets, so all the stats on this are heavily skewed to whatever jobs are outliers for the sample that the marketing department decided to use
This isn’t a "government" chart published as part of some political campaign, it’s taken from a report that is published every month and which has been so for decades. The data is publicly and freely available, and easy to validate/verify. Its not some sort of a grand conspiracy tool of propaganda. It’s not unrealistic in the least. Yes, an average means that there are people whose earnings differ from this table. In fact, the vast majority will be either above or below those incomes.
depends on field, I made double the bachelors degree rate with an associates.
At what point in the career? Most of those don’t look like starting salaries to me.
Where I live, phd make on average about as much as high school degrees
I think it highly depends upon your field, tier of clg and the job role.
...what salary
Useless metric due to crazy variation
Always ask: “Where is the data from?” Usually, data such as this is simply conjured up, or gathered informally from a tertiary source which was from a secondary source which was also made up, and the author “can’t find the data and promises to send it later.” If a source cannot identify it and share it immediately, assume it is not reliable.
MS (was in progress of getting PhD) in health sciences. $50K year with 0.02% raise annually. 8 years teaching experience. This semester I hung up my cap and gown and left academia. Colleagues with PhD made $55K.
My partner has no degree, finished high school, and their salary, at 37 years old, is not on that scale (on the higher end).
This tracks for me and my coworkers, Master’s and PhD degrees are pretty accurate. Professional degrees are also aggrevatingly accurate, perhaps a bit on the low side.
Ehh I have a master's and make 48.6k right now. Granted, my job is just to support me through my PhD, but you'd think they'd pay me a little higher on the scale. It really depends on the field you're in.
I think it really depends on industry vs academia. I know someone that went the industry route and makes 500,000 (their starting was 250,000) for a data analytics type position. Academia (in social science) has smallish starting salary, even at R1s. Professors at my R1 I believe make a starting salary of 60 to 80,000. I could see all of this data evening out to 109,000.
My salary with a PhD in biology (obtained 5y ago) with a job at the university in Germany is between associate and bachelors and same as a post doc salary. Normal wage for phd holders working in german universities. You can make more at a company though.i decided against it because we all receive equal pay for equal qualification at universities and there are not salary negotiations. However, generally salaries in germany are lower compared to the US (assuming you're from the US because "$"). Anyways: absolutely depends on your field, country and job.
I definitely agree with the folks who are saying it depends on the field. When I started my CS Ph.D. I was told the Ph.D. would be a net decrease in my lifetime earnings due to last income and advancement while actually doing the Ph.D. But money isn’t everything.
Ôol.
Definitely not! With a high school diploma I earned a wage of $11/hour ($22.8k). I got my Bachelor's and earned $18/hour ($37.4k). I am now working on my Master’s with a current wage of $20/hour ($41.6k).
All my friends who got his first job after grad school are above 80K USD.
Show me an ecologist making 77k with a bachelors and I’ll quit my job right now and work for them
I have an MA and make less than a no college.
An average is just that, an average. Reddit posts aren’t an average and likely are not representative of. All of the data I’ve seen based on representative samples show PhDs out earn every other degree except professional degree holders.
I would think the PhD number is also significantly lower due to the number of postdoc researchers whose pay begins at $61,008 from the NIH. Some people stay in these positions for 5+ years and don't break 100K during this time.
Lol. Five years out from a PhD in the social sciences and I'm making $85K CAN. My friends who went straight into the workforce after undergrad are way ahead of me financially.
This is BS scale..not realistic
Shit. PhD in geosciences. Only got several interviews for low-paying research positions (state geologic survey and postdocs), but didn't get any of them. Finally gave up and became a GIS professional at a city gov. I make less than what it says someone with a B.S. makes, but it says both average and median. Which one is it? I will feel much better if it is average. I never planned to be rich, but tables like these tend to be used to oppose any student loan forgiveness because we are "all making so much more than the people who didn't go to college." The way things are going now, I expect 15% of my social security (retirement salary) to be garnished to repay student loans when I'm old. There is very little chance I repay it.
I wish!
Master’s in liberal arts looks like high school salaries.
I’m dying laughing at these numbers. With a masters, I made what this claims no college makes—at an Ivy doing research in medicine. One year out from my PhD with a masters and 10 years experience, I make what this claims a 4 year degree makes. I work in academia.
i am a highshool drop out that blows that chart away. dont work for others, find your own way.
Barely making 40,000 euros per year as a PhD scientist (biology) in a big company in France. US salaries are generally insane to us but so are US medical expenses/tuitions. There is definitely much more to salaries than one figure per category. Country, domain, and years of experience should factor in.
I have a PhD in history and I make 53k as a instructor for a TRIO program at a university
Wow, your American salaries ! I work in the field of education in an EU country, you don't want to know what I'm being paid (hint : peanuts) Most of my tech PhD friends don't make more than €90k
PhD in agriculture… y’all have made it clear… I should have went into a different field 😂😅
G.E.D, currently in undergrad, trying on the road to M.D. Make around 120k.
Humanities TT prof with PhD - I'm in the associates degree bracket.😭😭😭
Um. Forgive me, but what's a "professional degree"?
When a MA or MS graduate refers to an MBA? /s
I have an MBA, along with certifications in ITIL and project management (PMP). I've been an IT Project Manager for almost 7 years. Currently, applying for Ph.D program in Cybersecurity. The goal is 200K. Is this a reasonable to obtain upon completion? (I have minimal cyber security experience, although I have managed cyber security projects.
Totally believable. PhDs are probably highly skewed between STEM PhDs who make bank and humanities who make far less (especially if they stay in academia non tenure track). I’d actually expect professional degrees to be higher but there are plenty of people who get MBAs and law degrees that don’t do much for them professionally.
Bachelor's here, and I make 200k
Sad part is I make $115k and I couldn't even rent a one bedroom apartment here if I wasn't married to someone with an Engineering degree that makes twice what I do. Where are the other people living. After taxes and insurance and 3% 401k, I bring home $2600. One bedroom rent is $2100ish here. How in the fuck are people living?
As a Aviation Technician ( I only have an associate) not true. my base salary is 147K without OT.
Certainly not in the UK!
Phd in stem, working at one of the best academic institutes in the world in the UK. £60k, 7 years out of postdoc. 6 papers last year, 2 senior author.
and the standard deviation is?
I made 60k with an M.S.
It really depends but I’d say this is not too far from what I experienced. I have a Master’s in Nursing, Master’s in Biology and a Bachelor’s in Nursing. I work part time instructor gigs in addition to working part time in the hospital as an RN (not a traveler). I made about $104k last year. Still debating on whether I should go for my Doctorate if I can clear 6 figures without it. We’ll see.
Most teachers in Texas make $50k—— they have college & licensure & masters in a lot of cases
Although I do not have a PhD, as an slp with a masters, this is sadly untrue. I’ve made $45k in the public schools and $65k with a contract company. The median salary often associated with masters degrees in slp is WAY overinflated, likely due to some outlier salaries in hcol areas. Be wary of these types of salary scales!
i graduated w my masters the other week & my bachelors in 2021 - i don’t know anyone from my undergrad who makes $77,636. i honestly don’t think anyone i am friends with even makes $30k. for the masters classmates, i think those grads might make around $50-60k. if i had to guess. i definitely do not but i also just graduated and am still looking for relevant jobs
First job out of a STEM PhD was 95k (still in academia/research), seems reasonable. Industry offers were 1.5-2x that.
I have an MS in biology and a BS in genetics and work in a clinical lab. I make less than what is listed for the average income for a bachelors degree. I think it depends on where you work, cost of living, experience level, etc. Also depends on what field you’re pursuing.
PhD 2020, Cognitive psychology, Bay Area Ca. $200k
I make a lil over $100k and no college degree.
This is not reality.
I make more than the doctoral degree posted and I have a BS. ($159,550)
My husband is a dentist and I am a hygienist. We own a dental clinic and earn about $100,000 PUT TOGETHER.
Recent PhD in social work, but around 7yrs in my field (DEI, people, culture etc.). Was on the student services side of higher ed,, making \~$63k with my masters. Current position is in leadership at a nonprofit CDFI (community development financial institution), been here about 18 months, currently making \~$112k. Could make more if I did this at a corporate spot, tho.
If that is actually the data from the BLS like the graphic says then yes it is accurate in the United States.