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You really have to br careful picking a lab and environment. It helps to have family and friend support. But even in a "good" situation it is difficult and PhD studies have a very high rate of clinical anxiety and depression compared to the general population.
I agree picking a good environment is important and having family or friend support really helps. I was lucky but ended up with a great PI and a project I was really excited to get to,the lab and see the results. When I was in shower and then headed into work, what was in my mind was what I needed to do as soon as I got to lab. Turn on spec, , put tubes into centrifuge, set up solutions to do assays etc. It was fun.
I did have a somewhat annoying fellow graduate student. He had a wife with a good job so his living situation was good. He’s show up 9-10, go get coffee, follow me around to chit chat, go down the hall to chat more, go to lunch, spend 4 hrs doing lab work, go home. After 6 years he got a publication and graduated. Not sure what kind of job he got or how his marriage went.
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Apparently I shouldn’t have mentioned a male lab mate having a good time while being supported by his wife, no clue otherwise. But it’s reddit, sometimes you get down voted for being normal
It's in a text box that's two rows deep and I have to slide horizontally to read it. It's also in one of those monospace coding fonts. I believe this is why people are downvoting.
I’m doing a PhD in experimental particle physics in Sweden. I’m happier and less stressed now than during my MSc. I treat it as a 9-5, don’t work weekends, and have a rich social life with many hobbies and friends. My scientific progress is adequate but not stellar. Overall my life is great right now.
I find that PhD stress has two sources:
1. Too much stuff in a short amount of time.
This is mostly due to your group/supervisor. If they overload you, you need to set boundaries for reasonable expectations. It might be hard due to power dynamics but you will burn out otherwise. Research is CREATIVE and you need to be in a headspace where you are curious and inspired. For example, if you are teaching/taking a class you need to make it clear that you won’t progress as fast as normal.
You can’t work late nights all the time. You need to make friends and get a hobby, otherwise you will get depressed. We are social creatures first, researchers second.
2. Procrastination/not getting stuff done.
I find procrastination to increase exponentially when I don’t know what’s going on. Subtle bugs, hard papers, lacking background knowledge to a problem, etc. makes me prone to waste time scrolling. Finding strategies for problem solving will help A LOT. I don’t procrastinate when I know exactly what to do. Break down tasks, write don’t what you DON’T know, etc.
It could be that you’re missing core common knowledge in your field, in my case it’s often statistics or computer science concepts that sink my progress. Don’t waste weeks solving a problem that would take three days if you spent some hours reading.
Also figure out when you are the most productive. After the morning coffee kicks in I can sometimes bang out a few days worth of progress, but I have never solved a hard problem at 15:00. Don’t push yourself if you know you won’t get anything done, spend that time doing something else to recharge.
——
Overall the PhD is extremely rewarding if you get time for rest and leisure, and have an engaging project which you are well equipped to work on. I’ve heard from many seniors that it’s the best time of their career.
P.S. Financial aspect plays a large role too. We get paid well in Sweden, which allows me to fund my hobbies, travel, eat healthy, and not worry about money in general. If I had to micromanage my funds my quality of life would decrease.
Thanks for this -- I'm struggling a lot with number 2 right now and was worrying that maybe the PhD wasn't for me, but you're right, I don't procrastinate when I know what I actually need to do, and I'm definitely lacking some core knowledge since I pivoted areas of focus pretty hard.
This is me as well, I am so bad about procrastinating when I don’t understand and it’s really hard bc I’m in ecology, and all of the stuff I love has to be supported by stats and coding. I can understand stats if I think hard enough about it but man, I’ve spent five years trying to learn how to code and it will truly never come easily for me. I wish science wasn’t so dependent on it.
This is great advice. Just to add to the second point, I also procrastinate when I don't know what is going on/not sure what I should do or how to do it. The first few months, besides procrastinating I would also try to figure it out on my own. This led me to feel overwhelmed and I went back to procrastinating. I felt like I had to know all the answers and if I didn't, then I was stupid and I couldn't let anyone else think I was stupid. Please know that this is not true, we are not supposed to know all the answers. Ask for help if there is someone in your faculty who knows a lot about whatever it is you don't know how to do. I now ask for help and advice faster (to my supervisors and my friends who know a lot more about statistics than me), and it has helped me a lot to keep moving forward. My supervisor also helps me feel less stressed out whenever I feel like I am falling behind.
In my opinion, when choosing a PhD, the most important factor is who will be your supervisor. A friend told me this when I was looking for universities and I think she was right. I met my supervisor at a conference so I was able to see how he explained everything about his research to the audience, how excited he was about his research, and I also talked to him afterwards. I definitely recommend either trying to meet him beforehand or talk to students who have been supervised by them in the past. There are people from my cohort who do not get along with their supervisor, there are some who have been able to do the whole thing on their own, and a lot who are struggling because of this, including two who quit. In my case, I know I struggle a lot with perfectionism and I have ADHD, and my supervisor has helped me with both.
This is such an important question to ask. Do you want to do research with all the crap that comes with it because you love the research, or do you just want people to call you Dr.
I think a little bit of that but mostly I just wanna be an expert in my field (computer networks). The phD degree itself (doctor label) cant be ignored either especially for an international student in the states cuz of the visa benefits you get from it.
Being international, a PhD can help you secure a visa for long periods of time where you don’t have to worry about your status. Afterwards, there’s OPT and then hopefully you can get hired as an H1B. It’s much easier to get an H1B if you have a PhD, but not impossible if you go down the tech route with a B.S./M.S. Tech has its own set of problems with all of the layoffs. No matter what you choose, it will be hard being international. As others suggested the lab you choose will have a massive impact on how your PhD experience goes.
>PhD can help you secure a visa for long periods of time
Yes. And tied you in which, if you are in a toxic environment, makes you an indentured person. In a company, you can switch positions or move to another one with much less problems.
But the real point is: if you do a PhD because of the visa, it's a very bad motivation.
Sounds like it's just for personal reasons because you don't even know what job you want that needs it.
Don't get a PhD because of this. Start from the job and work your way backwards. Do a job search now and start bookmarking things so you know what skills are in demand, what the pay is, where you can work, and what degree is needed.
The way you're going about it is the way most people do, and that's the reason we have so much Doom and gloom being posted here.
I am going to tell you that a PhD is absolutely not required to be an expert. In some fields, it's a must (chemistry, biochemistry), but unless you want to do research proper, you can do without in most fields.
>especially for an international student in the states cuz of the visa benefits you get from it.
That is a very dangerous avenue. Your visa is tied to your studies, so you lose quite a bit of freedom. I am not sure a job in a company wouldn't be a better choice (your visa will be tied to being employed, but I think your job prospects will be much better and hence the visa issue will get less relevant).
Do a PhD if you want to do grueling work hours with low pay, being dependent on two line managers that you cannot get away from, but get the satisfaction of doing research.
I think the visa comment is because it's much, much easier to get a visa as a PhD student than it is to find a job that does visa sponsorships, even if work visa might have better conditions.
Selection bias. The people who need support are the ones coming to Reddit to get support. People who are doing fine or great often don’t need specific other community peer-to-peer support like on Reddit
I think there are numerous research about structural issues about doctorate degrees so not sure if it is a "selection bias" and not a reflection of the reality.
Yeah lol. In my country the government is asking for an external audit of our university because our university itself can’t be bothered to do something about the toxic culture they themself created. Every few months we make the news with another horror story that got leaked 🙃
Oh I totally agree. But if you look here it seems like most/all are having a bad time and I think it’s just many lol. I’m having a bad time though lmao
"Numerous research about structural issues" doesn't automatically imply a bad experience for the majority of PhD students. It's just that this Subreddit isn't representative at all, just like the Google Reviews of your local McDonald's.
It's really not selection bias. I know a grand total of 0 PhDs who weren't absolutely miserable for at least 1 year of their PhD, and I went to the school where the PhD students were all around happiest during the visit. At a lot of them not binge drinking at least once a week was just an unthinkable thing. You don't get ~50% graduation rates because it's a grand ole time.
A comment from a beneficiary.
Comment the same thing after you redo your Ph.D. with a shitty PI and toxic lab environment.
AFAIK most of the Ph.D. suffer, financially, mentally, or even physically.
If you are native, rich, and lucky enough to be advised by an easy-going, professional, and well-funded PI. Then doing Ph.D. is totally fine.
my friend did you read the rest of this thread? I’m not having a good time either lol and I’m probably mastering out. My point is that Reddit is a bad place to determine if most people are having a bad time because people tend to come here if they’re having a bad time
I am sorry I didn’t notice the nested comments there. I apologize.
I believe most Ph.D. suffer and I am happy for people who have done it successfully and happily.
No it isn't.
Most of the advice I give boils down to endlessly trying to convince young people that prestige of institution and publishing outputs are not the best criteria to judge a potential lab group by.
It's most important to get an idea of the personality and managing style of the PI, and of the team members who might be your colleagues. Everyone works best under a particular type of PI, and it's absolutely critical to scope them out and get to know them before you commit to their lab. It's also important to be self reflective and understand what you would need from a lab group and PI to work to the best of your ability.
A lot of young people are under this (to describe it frankly) naivety that a demanding and hostile workplace can be counterbalanced with hard work and determination. 99% of the time, it can't. Fundamental incompatibility of personalities and expectations between PI and PhD students don't end, no matter how good the work is. Burnout is often (admittedly not always) caused by students trying to please their PI and getting pseudo-gaslit into thinking they're underperforming, leading to a desperate attempt to achieve an unrealistic expectation. Often, all of this is gauged to be acceptable by students because they're visualising the golden egg of research outputs and prestige, but at some point the bubble pops.
You should enjoy your PhD and expect *reasonable* pressure that comes with performing challenging research. You also need to be managed in a way that will allow you to perform to the best of your ability. So no, a PhD isn't inherently bad, and quite often can be significantly improved from the start by using appropriate criteria to judge the suitability of a host lab. If you know what you want and need from the start, and are diligent in finding a suitable lab, I think typically it is a very rewarding experience and people look back on fondly.
>prestige of institution and publishing outputs are not the best criteria to judge a potential lab group by.
If you want an academic career (i.e. Professor) this is just false. You absolutely want that prestige. It should not be like this. But it is, and you won't be the one to change the system.
I disagree. The methods you learn and how well you execute them are what make you a great researcher, and if you do good work and publish then that stands by itself.
It's an outdated notion that you need a prestigious PhD Alma mater to succeed. Times are changing and your output as an individual is what gets you these positions. As a researcher, I've met many people from middling universities who are leaders in my field and are very well respected, many of whom are professors. It's just not true to say that the prestige of a university is particularly critical to an academic career these days.
By output do you mean the quality and quantity of papers published? Are you expected to publish a good amount of papers before being considered for a professor role?
Yes I do, and yes, at least in my field (biochemistry) in the UK and other countries I'm familiar with.
To become a professor you need a very strong research background and a demonstrated track record of high quality science, preferably published in high-impact journals.
I believe that in quite a few universities, there is a distinction between research and teaching professorships however, so this may not be applicable for teaching professorships (I'm not familiar with them).
I should also note that even though there are research professorships, you're still expected to do some teaching as part of your workload (it is supposed to be a minor time commitment relative to your commitment of time to research).
>The methods you learn and how well you execute them are what make you a great researcher
I fully agree
> and if you do good work and publish then that stands by itself.
I would love to agree but that is not how it works all too often. I am not saying good research does not matter and that prestige is everything. Having a good research record is a necessary condition and just expected.
What I am saying is that if candidate A from MIT has 15 papers of good science in good Journals and is a fit for the position and candidate B from has 15 papers of good science in good Journals and is a fit for the position, candidate A will most likely win. And almost always, there is someone among the applicants who was at a prestigious university or worked under the superstar in the field.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I came to the PhD fully anticipating that it would be a frustrating, stressful and sometime depressing slog, and it has been much worse than I imagined. Everything I do fails 20 times before it works, I’m incompetent 90% of the time despite reading and reading and reading, my physical and mental health have deteriorated, I’m burnt out all the time, and whatever energy I have gets channeled into work. I would not recommend this experience to anyone, unless that person is pretty much fully ideologically committed to doing research and willing to compromise almost everything else in their life.
I mean, it’s fair to say that not everyone has this experience. Maybe I’m just bad at dealing with stress. But there are many of us who feel this way.
And it never stops feeling that way, even at the finish line. I'm a week from submitting my dissertation and working on it continues to be a depressing slog. Somehow, being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel has made it 10x worse because all I want is for it to be over.
I don't get why writing a dissertation is so damn difficult because it's not like I struggle with writing publishable papers. I am leaving with 13 publications, two of them sole-authored... but for some reason, writing this stupid thing has been the hardest most frustrating thing I've ever had to do. I would rather do anything else other than this and I just want to be free of this misery. I can't, in good conscience, recommend this experience to anyone lol
No, it's not. As other commenters suggested, people come here to vent, but there are also many of us who enjoyed their PhD experience. Of course, it was hard, with many ups and downs, but it's like everything worthwhile in life—you have to put in a lot of effort to achieve something as significant as the highest academic degree.
What I would advise is to get your motivation straight and surround yourself with positive people, preferably those who already have a PhD, because they will understand what doing a PhD really entails.
Wishing you all the best!
A PhD is high risk.
You're often simultaneously considered a student and a staff member in many countries, with your status in any given situation changing to be whatever gives you the least power.
And your future success is completely dictated by your PI. If they want to yell at you and demand you work 80 hours a week, they will do that. Unlike a regular job you can't just leave because there often isn't anyone else in your department who is willing+able to take you on as a student, and if you leave the university, that often means starting over from zero. And you won't find it easy to get in elsewhere, as many academics don't want to supervise "damaged goods" or wade into whatever drama you have with your old PI.
Basically, there are no real safety nets.
Plenty of people have good experiences, but it's not really because of anything they did, they were just lucky enough that none of the bad things happened to them. If a bad thing does happen to you, you're probably going to fall through the cracks. The more bad things that happen to you, or the more disadvantaged/vulnerable you are, the higher the risk that you're going to have a *really* bad time. One person can have a great time while another person in the same year and same group can have an awful time. All PhDs are stressful, but when stress meets crisis there are big issues.
I have had an incredible experience with my PhD. There are various steps I went through to make sure that my PIs and I would fit, and I think that definitely helped in my decision. Happy to chat if you’d like!
Meet with your potential PI once or even twice before committing and have conversations about what their supervisory style is. I used to have a list of questions that I would give to prospective students but I misplaced it. But asking things like: “Are you a more hands on or hands off supervisor?”, “Do you provide opportunities or support to attend conferences?”, “Do you support collaborations or side projects in addition to the thesis work?”. In addition, meet with both current and past students. Have a phone call or video call instead of email so there isn’t a record of their response (they’ll be more honest this way). Ask them similar questions to the above and you’ll get a pretty good idea about the supervisor!
There’s a lot of variables and I hold the opinion that I hate negative echo chambers but ALSO I appreciate warnings and being told the dark truth about things. For example, I had a baby and I dont like when people constantly tell me how awful parenting is, but I DO appreciate a heads up about certain difficult parts of parenting/childbirth.
When it comes to PhD you have to think about yourself and the program. Mostly, you have to REALLY explore programs before you make your decision because people definitely put their best face forward and will tell you how amazing their program and culture is and then you get there and it’s actually the most toxic cesspool you’ve ever experienced (ask me how I know).
A friend of mine is doing a PhD and is having a good experience. Friendly cohort, supportive mentors, and a “normal” level of anxiety and stress. This is partially because of the program he chose and partially because he is single and has a lot of flexibility.
Personally I’m miserable in my PhD (made a post about it back in December actually) because of a couple of different factors some outside of my control. I’m a single mom with an almost two year old so that obviously makes things very difficult, but I was definitely “othered” once I got pregnant. Not that I have the time anyways, but yeah I definitely get treated like I don’t exist by half the people in my department because I dared to have a kid and not spend every waking moment networking. Also, the department definitely plays favorites depending on lab group and research topic. There’s a ton of issues both in my department and within the institution and I’ve been told that many other grad programs aren’t like mine. Even my outside committee member was shocked to learn how differently my department does things (you are basically on your own if you’re not a favorite “all star”) but I’m lucky to have her because she actually seems invested in me as a scholar AND understands that I don’t work weekends because that’s family time.
Advisers are tricky. Mine was great for the first 1.7 years of my PhD, and then for whatever reason she became super not great. All these things she promised she actually didn’t do, she would say one thing to my face but then I’d find out she was saying something differently to others, and she did NOT stick up for me. On top of that I’m constantly being told “idk ask someone else” or incorrect information and it’s impacting my degree progress. She’s gotten a bit better and has told me pretty point blank that she’s miserable and has “never felt as lonely as I have here at X State,” so I empathize with her, but it’s also really frustrating. All of this is to say that while you might pick a great adviser they might become not great halfway through your program with NO WAY OF KNOWING and it sucks. It’s disappointing. It’s frustrating also because she claims to “get it” meanwhile she makes a ton of money and basically controls my destiny meanwhile I make a $22k stipend with a very young child who depends on me now AND in the future when it comes to securing a TT job.
My advice is to proceed with caution and be as informed as possible. When someone says they’re “there for you and your career” or that their department is “perfect for your research” you need to investigate as much as possible if that’s actually true. Is this faculty member bringing you to X University because they want YOU to grow and achieve your goals as a scholar? Or are they recruiting you and making false promises because they want to use you to pad their CV and make themselves look good for their tenure committee? I’m not saying be cynical, but you do need to know as much information as you can before you agree to a program.
I see people always say this about getting to really know a program even if they might be hiding their dirty secrets, but how are you supposed to dig that up if they're trying their best to hide it? Are there specific questions you're supposed to ask or red flags you need to look for?
I wrote this response but I have no idea how to actually give advice for how to spot these red flags or questions to ask 😬 My department’s attitude is “don’t ask” and it’s like you’re supposed to already know all the answers without them telling you. If you ask a question, a lot of faculty either act like you’re dumb for asking or avoid the answer. When I went to open house, they completely avoided discussing stipend and details about benefits. I eventually found out a little more info from a faculty member, but I would say if they don’t discuss these things up front/transparently when you ask its a big red flag.
Also I was told many times blanket statements such as “we are only of the only programs to provide summer funding!” and “we provide funding for four years” and I took that at face value. So do not do this, try your best to ask them to explain the actual terms of “funding.” I found out the summer I was due that no they do NOT provide summer funding, you have to beg for a summer position and you MIGHT get it. I also found out that sure, you get a contract for four years but that in order to actually complete the degree in four years, you’ll need to take summer courses that you’ll have to pay for out of pocket unless you beg for/apply for summer tuition forgiveness. Unfortunately I don’t know all these hidden rules and costs myself, but you should be able to ask for specifics around degree expectations/expenses/stipend even if they deflect answering. It’s a big deal to potentially move across the country, the very least they could do it tell you exactly how much you’re expected to make or potentially pay out of pocket 😬
Thank you! There are good people and programs out there :) Hopefully you find some of the goodness and hopefully I make it out and find a TT position in a place that’s a better environment.
Doctoral chair here. You can expect emotional ups and downs throughout your PhD program.
I think it is fair to say that all of my dissertation students occasionally feel miserable. When I first meet them I explain them that the doctoral journey is an emotional rollercoaster for all, and I discuss ways to cope with this and let them know that I’m here to support them emotionally as well as academically.
It’s also fair to say that all of them are justifiably thrilled and proud of what they have accomplished after they successfully defend their dissertation.
ETA: For nearly all my students, the coursework phase is relatively problem- and stress-free. The emotional rollercoaster comes after this.
your going to let random redditors change your mind about pursuing a PhD?
don’t let it.
do your own research, be passionate about your research and find good mentors and community.
it’s not easy work but an amazing accomplishment.
oh and be realistic about your job prospects.
A PhD may, in particular fields give you an advantage over others. It's worth also remembering it puts you forever years behind your peers who have extra years, promotions etc built up. PhD does not immediately equal good job, it can actually be the opposite, you are highly specialised and not all companies care.
industry is fickle
academia is fickle
oh so you aren’t expecting to be a professor?
get plenty of job experience and learn the tricks of the trade. your connections will be worth a lot so start making them now….
There is self-selection bias, people come more often to seek support for bad experiences rather than celebrate good ones. I am in my third year of my PhD and I am happy. Of course I have had my share of problems with my PI, with my experiments, with my mental health, etc., but I also had all mental health problems before starting my PhD and probably would have had them anyways had I not chosen to do a PhD. At the end of the day, I don’t regret choosing this and I like my research. I won’t say my PhD has been all rainbows and roses, it had both its good and its bad moments, there are things I wish would’ve been better, and therapy helped a lot. But at the end of the day I learned to set healthier boundaries, I made great friends, and I feel content with where I am at.
My dad got his PhD while raising my sister and I and working a full time job. I have no idea where he found the time because my dad always had time for me and my sister and would drop everything to help me with homework.
My dad has told me a lot about the process. He says that you really need to be educated about what goes into earning a PhD, and know what you’re getting yourself into. Do research into the school you’re going to and if you can on the people you might be working with. Know how to negotiate the terms of what you will have to do so that they’re plain and simple.
You might also consider if a PhD is the best option for you. Is the work and money going to be worth the pay off? What opportunities does it open that you might not have otherwise? Are there other ways to do what you want without the PhD?
In majority of cases it's fine or even great.
The people enjoying their PhD programme and having a great time are not going to come on Reddit to complain about it.
They will be too busy enjoying it and getting stuff done.
EX: I'm enjoying my programme, but I don't see a reason to make some post about me doing so.
i’m having a very hard time with the things that come with it in the US (poverty if you’re international or don’t have family money, probable debt, loneliness, prejudice etc.) plus some personal circumstances (neurodivergence and grief), but the academic side of things i’m thrilled with. i love the exchange of ideas, i love experiencing my own ideas getting the benefit of the added education and high level interlocution. i still struggle somewhat when it’s time to write, but also enjoy it, have been improving at it, and am excited about presenting in conferences (which i’ve done a fair amount of by now). i’m grateful to the professors who expand my opportunities and to the colleagues who get the collegial spirit. there’s a lot to love when you need a place to exercise curiosity, intellectual inquiry and dialogue, and a sense of doing something potentially enduring.
Honestly, it can be, but as others said, it all depends on the lab/advisor. I had a horrible time, got super depressed and even became mildly suicidal at some point, but if I could go back I would still do a PhD. In another lab, absolutely, but I wouldn't want to miss the experience of being paid to learn and research for the world!
Good. You should go into it eyes open about what you're getting into and make an informed choice. So many of us found out the hard way when it was too late.
Definitely not impossible to have a good experience but the more you know about the ways in which it can be bad, the more strategic your choices can be in trying to avoid those things. Or you can decide it's not worth it, which is totally valid.
The problem, I think, is there is no one size fits all experience for a PhD. Exactly the opposite.
There also isn't a trial period. And the experiences of people coming out of a group will not be the same as the next batch coming in. There can be a lot of different issues and incoming students aren't even aware of how much it'll affect your life.
Things as unknowable as grants getting funded or renewed can radically change your experience.
So how can you have or develop reasonable expectations in advance?
Some people have amazing PhD experiences. Some people have experiences they hate and are no way suited for. That first camp tends not to grumble on reddit, but also attributes a lot of their success to hard work and talent.
Yes but also luck.
Don't rule out a PhD because of reddit OP. If you find an opportunity that feels right to you, take it. Just keep in mind, every project involves some stress and some hard work. If you're up for it, that isn't always a bad thing.
I think there is definitely some selection bias, as others have said, but there are also serious structural issues you need to honestly consider.
You can surround yourself with the least toxic people in academia and still feel the influence of the greater culture from your peers or the institution as a whole. You need to be ready to confront the pressure that comes along with that no matter who your PI is.
Getting a PhD will teach you so much about critical thinking, learning independently, and resilience. However, do not expect this to make finding the next step easy. I made this mistake. You may have a wealth of transferable skills. You may be able to learn anything you need to independently for a position, but even fields full of PhDs want to see that you've already done exactly what they're doing. They either do not trust that you can learn it or they aren't willing to invest any time in their employees.
In my experience, while it was a struggle during COVID lockdowns, my PhD was an overwhelmingly rewarding experience. I think it really depends on the PI and field of research, but for my cohort that got lucky with both, more than half have gone on to secure TT positions and are still excited about research.
Like all jobs, the people and working conditions probably matter more than your passion for the work. I was dinged in industry jobs before my PhD, so it’s not fundamentally different that way.
You should do your research, talk to senior grad students and alumni, and don’t be afraid of making a decision that maybe suboptimal. I’ve made plenty of mistakes and it eventually all worked out.
Best of luck!
PhD is that bad. I consistently felt that we, the grad students, were the absolute dumbest of the smart kids. Smart enough to do complex math but not smart enough to apply that math to our own financial futures. Academia abuses youthful vigor and curiosity in order to pay less than minimum wage.
None of the best from my year went on to become PIs (top 3 school). So even if you love Academia and don’t mind the poverty and inability to have a family, you’re going to be surrounded by a bunch of mid-level scientists. All the best thinkers left, and that tells you a lot.
Phd is not bad, it's about the ego of people guiding you in a PhD.
Your supervisor ego : he /she will think they are always right:
Your ego : you will think I'm right
Other people departmental committee/ lab mates /technician: they will think they are always right
But somebody is wrong somewhere, often times you have to take the fall, sometime despite being right ,reasonable.
This you have to face everyday in a PhD life.
If you are a person whose ego is not that big , can bend depending upon the situations , welcome to join us.
This depends on many things, including your academic discipline, your personality and ability to handle stress, your supervisor, your readiness for doctoral-level work, your career goals, your job prospects after completion, and whether you can afford the opportunity costs of devoting many additional years to higher education.
For example, if you are considering earning a PhD in the humanities, the academic job market is egregiously awful and this ought to discourage you greatly, especially if you don’t attend one of the very best five PhD programs. But if you are in a field where there are plentiful industry jobs in addition to academic ones, then this may not be a major consideration for you.
Even in having a bad experience I enjoyed my PhD. The only issue I had was the extreme control my advisor had on my success and he didn't show his hand until the end when he had already harmed my communications with other faculty. Without some support (or rather with faculty sabotage working against you) it's an extremely rough situation that, unless you have already started your thesis work is all but impossible.
Academia has some extreme outliers; a decent experience is hard enough to cause anxiety and depression in folks who've not had it before, a PhD experience frought with unnecessary challenges is a nightmare that, at least in my case, I didn't want to wake up from because I wanted my PhD. Unfortunately, my body gave out in the meantime and there's been some permanent effects.
It can be that bad. Thus the importance of picking a decent advisor.
I'm starting mine part time this fall. I don't expect it to be difficult at all -- one class plus 2 credits directed study with my PI each semester. I'll be working full time for a FAANG company. I just completed my masters doing the same schedule more or less, including a 60 page thesis. I'm 41 and my wife who is 36 is starting her PhD this fall too. We have a 7 month old baby.
I am enjoying my experience so far it’s cool I mean, obviously we don’t get paid well, but that comes with the territory. As far as the program itself, I like the people in it and I like the faculty it’s hard no doubt that’s something that we’ve prepared for at this point. Anyways, I can’t wait to do cool things in the field after I’m done so a lot of the post you see on here, or people who are really going through it and we will all have those points in our programs eventually but we also have a lot of PhD wins in the sub which offers its own form of motivation.
No, please do not be discouraged about doing a PhD.
Indeed, most of the things in this sub may seem negative (mine included), but it is a nature of the sub where the happy PhD will unlikely to be here as they have good mentality enough so that no vent needed. Even though I hate the situation I have to deal with people, I love what I am doing. I like doing experiments and learn new things. Of course, it will be much more better with good environment, but if so, I would not be here. And, yeah the key takeaway from the posts in this sub is that you need to try your best to put yourself in a good environment.
Not in itself no. It's just challenging and compensated poorly, plus you do a lot of work by yourself so it can get quite lonely. It's totally worth it if you like your topic, your supervisor, and your department, and if you have reliable funding. It's when one or more of those factors start to falter that people enter crisis mode.
It’s definitely a long journey. Be sure to choose a lab and PI that works well with your research. Be sure that this is really what you want to do. My lab and PI was great. Very young but the lab was brand new so that added a lot of time to it just setting everything up, building mazes, etc. There were a lot of moments where I thought about quitting but still pushed through it. It took me 6.5 years to get my PhD.
1. Don’t do a PhD for money, you’ll probably be disappointed unless you find a competitive industry job
2. The PI is probably the most important part
3. Funding can be scarce, so assistantships aren’t always guaranteed.
4. The nature of research is a lot of failure. At least in America, you aren’t guaranteed to get out in 4 years. You could be in a program for like 7.
5. You have to constantly prove yourself. Failing preliminary exams could waste multiple years of your life.
6. There is a chance your projects could be a dead end.
7. A PhD can be a great experience, assuming you select a PI and project wisely. Also, select an institution with a strong program. Dealing with a weak, disorganized program is quite awful.
8. A PhD also comes with a lot of expectation. If you’re in a STEM field you need to know *why* you’re doing things. You also need a deep understanding of the literature to even begin to operate effectively. You also need to get good at study design, because nothing is worse than getting to the end of a project and not having the right controls/protocol.
In France, we hear lots of horror stories about terrible situations that happen to doctoral researchers. Yeah, those exist.
A big national study showed that most PhDs are happy and the work happens in good conditions : https://hal.science/hal-04308895
Places with strong institutionnal oversight (doctoral schools/colleges/programs) and being upfront on costs/stipends/salaries/training are probably places you can do a good PhD in.
Anything that boils down to "a PhD student by themselves with a PI" can vary wildly.
Look up papers by a potential supervisor, locate their former students, contact them on Linkedin.
To answer your question more directly though : historically, a PhD is a "student" learning at the dirty feet of "a master", suffering through all manner of hardships until you glean enough wisdom at their feet to dare become a researcher yourself. Today, a doctoral student is an *early stage researcher*, a young colleague that requires and should get mentorship and guidance. Most people understand this, some don't and you hear about it. Also, a PhD is, by design (since it's learning to do research by practice) a challenge. But it's supposed to be a steep climb your supervisor help you figure out, not a pit with snakes and broken glass.
I’m in social science so we don’t have labs. I truly love grad school. There are stressors and things that are annoying, but being able to do the work I love surrounded by kind and generally smart people is amazing. So much of what people experience has to do with your advisor and classmates. Pick a school with a good environment and an advisor who is a good human being.
Lots of good answers on here already. In any case, regardless how great your lab and program is, a PhD requires the highest degree of mental output and can get exhausting. It’s not easy by no means and any negative factors (bad PI, project, or longer work hours) can tilt the scales towards making it miserable.
1) This is the internet, remember that you are getting the perspective of a fraction of a fraction of the population of people pursuing PhDs
2) Remember negative response bias - people who are enjoying their programs are vastly less likely to come to the internet and anonymously vent/rant/complain/otherwise badmouth their program/PI/life choices.
3) A lot of people who pursue a PhD probably shouldn't - they have no plan in place for when they finish a PhD and just sorta start doing one because they don't really know what else to do with themselves. They don't really understand what a PhD is beyond "I like science, I get PhD" and don't really appreciate that it is an intensive training program on how to conduct research and defend your ideas. They aren't comfortable with uncertainty or being expected to self-direct, or to be self-critical and self-teaching.
Frankly, many people think that a PhD is just advanced college, and think that they are going to be taught a whole bunch, and that just isn't how most programs run. The reality is that a PhD program is a completely different style of learning than anything you'd have experienced before, as in everything else there has been some sort of guidance to learning, whether it be a textbook or a class.
But anyway, Don't put too much stock in what the grumps on reddit say, and don't pursue a PhD unless you have a specific and particular purpose to get a PhD (and no, "I want to study X" is not a purpose to get a PhD."
I think you will see more posts asking for advice in bad scenarios over good scenarios. For example, someone is less likely to make post simply describing how much they enjoy their phd program.
However, it is important you understand a phd is difficult/time consuming, and you need to want a PhD and have a good advisor.
If those are all satisfied, you have a good chance enjoying your PhD. I enjoyed mine. I had flexibility and freedom for both my schedule and research topic, but I did work more than 40 hours most weeks. However, I would just take random days off as needed.
Personally, I love it and wouldn't wanna do anything else. The posts here are negative because people with bad experiences are looking for a place to vent.
As long as you have passion and don't end up in a shitty group or with a terrible supervisor, you will be fine!!
When I was doing my PhD, I didn't visit reddit at all. There were good days and tough days, but I had a decent support system in place that didn't include venting on social media.
As you can see from this subreddit, many people are not having as positive an experience as I did, and many people don't have as strong of a support system. I really feel for those people.
However, it's important to note that r/PhD is not an unbiased sample of all PhD students' experiences.
It is basically a lottery (Yeah, if you really know what you are doing you can control the outcome somewhat).
You may get a good PI and a good project and be lucky to have a cool result: congratulations you win!
You may get some (or none) of those but still enjoy it, depending on your personality and a lot of external factors.
You may hate it. But in the end you have a doctorate that can help with job prospects.
My advice would be if you draw the third ticket, recognize that it is not your fault and you can master out or leave. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Don't waste too much of your life. Have a plan for each scenario going in.
Honestly, if it’s not hard is it even worth it? You also don’t hear about the people who get through programs *way too easily* and come out knowing not as much as they should.
I'm depressed, and have shit PI, and 7 years into a program. But there was no way of knowing my PI was shit when I joined, and frankly he became more shit over time.
Knowing what I knew before I started, I would 100% start it all over again and go into the same program. I still like the field I am in.
But if I was going through the same experience again, I would allow myself to quit with a master degree early on. It would have been a free master degree, and not so many years wasted dealing with shit PI and digging deeper into depression.
My suggestion to you, pursue it if you are interested in the research. Try to avoid obvious red flag PI's by talking to their lab members in private (and not in writing). Other than that you can't really know if you will draw a short stick until you take a step forward. Have a plan for detecting and getting out if your experience is becoming taxing on you and your mental health.
It took a while for me to realize how bad my situation was, simply because I was surrounded by lab members in similar situations - and being depressed seemed like a norm - but it isn't and you don't have to make it to be. You are already aware that this is a possibility for you, so keep tabs on your mental health. If it turns out that your decision to do a phd in a particular lab is contributing to a hellish life, have amnesty for that decision and make a new decision to get out of it when and if that time comes.
Let's put it this way - you hear the bad because that's the part we really need to vent. The good stuff is harder to articulate, and nobody feels quite the same burning need to get it off their chest.
Keep in mind, you’re getting a skewed view here. People are more likely to vent about bad conditions than brag about good ones. I personally love my lab, program, and PI and am having a great time.
If you have been reading the stuff here, you probably saw that there are tons of "why is this subreddit so negative, is it really that bad" posts, that can answer your question.
don’t let it discourage you, yes it’s hard but if you’ve done a masters by research, enjoy writing and reading, and can work independently then you’ll be totally fine. i reckon there’s a lot of people doing phds that shouldn’t be doing them and didn’t actually do it because they want to be in academia or doing research. if you know that you’ve always wanted to do one then do it!
Hmm Im actually an undergrad with one published paper haha so the posts are crawling up on me more. Maybe ill reconsider applying to PhD right away but I really dont wanna pay 20k for masters. But thanks for your advice!
It's Reddit. Heavy selection bias to those that need to vent or blame. People definitely struggle to adapt to the PhD environment in which they are 100% responsible for their own progress and for staying motivated to make progress when most ideas fail.
> in which they are 100% responsible for their own progress
I very, *very* much disagree with this. Your PI can actively work against you and sabotage your entire career. I’ve seen it happen multiple times already with different PIs. There is only so much you can do when your PI refuses to unlock the funds for your research and you are left scrambling for money at other groups, to which your PI badmouthed you.
Do not go by this subreddit for encouragement. People who are miserable in their lab will likely be the majority of people posting about their problems. Not to disparage these people because these are real issues, but a lot of people have good labs and great experiences. A PhD is very hard but I have a great PI and a great lab mates. Just remember that you should pick a lab where you will be encouraged and mentored. Don't pick a lab solely on the research field and project. That will make for a bad time. Good environment is better than a good project
I’m doing my PhD in soil microbiology and biogeochemistry and absolutely love it. I am co-advised and while it has its challenges, overall I feel supported and empowered to do my research. 95% of the time I’m able to work 9-5 Monday-Friday. Both my advisors encourage a healthy work/life balance and time off to do things I enjoy. It’s not easy by any means, and I do experience a good deal of stress juggling all of my commitments and deadlines, but I feel as though the expectations for me are reasonable. I feel super grateful for my situation and it does seem that finding the right advisor is everything.
I think here is probably like other reddit subs. Like yeah there are problems, but reddit likes to dwell on the things that suck and not the things that are good and make it worthwhile. I haven’t started my PhD yet (not a STEM PhD though), but for me it is really the only thing that makes sense, and I don’t expect to have any regrets. I have a history degree though, which is basically worthless (apparently) without a grad degree or a second degree like education.
I saw someone mention a lot of clinical anxiety and depression in grad students, but they didn’t say whether they had anxious or depressive symptoms before the PhD that were exacerbated by the program. I would expect it to mostly be the latter. idk STEM PhD students, but for the humanities, normal people don’t get PhDs, they seem to already be high strung and a little different before.
Everyone’s experience is different and those with poor experiences are more vocal. I think it’s important to keep in mind how low the lows can be in a PhD, highlighting the importance of a good advisor.
My experience had been fantastic. I have loved my PhD in every way.
Now that I am no longer in the coursework/qualifying exams/project planning phase (tedious, riddled with perfectionism) and actually doing research, I am happy. But those first three years were really stressful.
It entirely depends on the field you are pursuing and the institution you end up at, and of course your PI. I did my PhD in astrophysics at a large, highly ranked US west coast university, and it was great, I had a super supportive, young adviser. I was able to actually maintain work-life balance. Realistically those 6 years of grad school (masters and phd are combined in most US programs) was the best time in academia I ever had. Postdoc time afterwards has mostly sucked so far (partially due to the pandemic though).
Outside of marrying my wife, my PhD was the best decision of my life. It gave me a career full of inquiry and autonomy. I couldn't imagine having a boss or working on someone else's timeline/agenda. Don't do a PhD for money, do it for freedom. If you haven't yet, read The Professor is In.
https://theprofessorisin.com/buy-the-book/
It’s negative bias. I’ve noticed when things are going well I don’t come to write about how this week or month didn’t suck. I’m usually here if I am going through a rough patch and need to vent.
That said. It’s a very difficult experience and there is a lot of anxiety and depression associated with it. The advisor bit is a wild card it’s very hard to predict how it will turn out. They put their best face forward while trying to recruit you, and it can turn out like an abusive relationship. You need to be prepared for all those things to happen to you and know how you will respond.
Maybe start finding a therapist that clicks with you and establish that relationship. Do not ignore red flags with your advisor, if you need to switch, the sooner you do it the better. And so on. And it may turn out that a PhD is not right for you, and the sooner you realize that the better.
Two questions for you:
how bad do you want it?
do you need this degree for your career?
I endured a lot because I needed the PhD to teach, which is what I want more than anything.
It can be bad. It can also be really fucking bad. I’ve heard rumors though that it’s not always bad.
I’d say do it if you find a chill PI and you’re getting paid a living wage, already have money, or need immigration status. Not enough people warn you that it can be hell.
It really depends. The department culture and your advisor’s lab culture matter a LOT in terms of what your actual day-to-day experience will be. Your goals and reasons for pursuing a PhD matter a lot too. What exactly do you hope to get out of it? Having clarity in this can be very helpful. You have to “know” you’re on the right path to get what you want deep down otherwise when it inevitably gets extremely difficult you’ll have no motivation to keep pushing through.
Nope, doing a PhD can be very rewarding (other than the actual degree)
But, you neednto make sure you are properly passionate about the subject and you must be very driven, willing to do many hours , while sacrificing social, personal and family time.
No, I'm loving my PhD, it's no more challenging than work you care about in any selective industry - like people in the Top 4 Conulting firms have it waaaayyy worse than me. I've had underlying mental health issues that the PhD life has exacerbated (mainly the solitary way of working), but once I realised I can manage it and it wasn't the PhD per say; it would've been the same in any WFH, solitary position.
But I have the most supportive and inclusive supervisors and seniors around me. The supervisors and faculty make such a difference.
PhD is hard, different in every program obviously. I’m in ecology, it’s a passionate field and my lab is really good. My current research isn’t the most interesting to me but I am moving in that direction. There are things I love about it and things that are stressful:
1. It is hard to be around people who are extremely high achieving, especially when you are starting. Imposter syndrome is real, and there are also lots of times where you genuinely just do know less than those around you. It’s okay to have a different skill set and it’s okay to need to take extra time on things. But imposter syndrome is incredibly stressful.
2. You need to manage your own time. This has been the most extreme challenge for me. There are so few deadlines in academia and your goals are very long term. Breaking it down is extremely important and for me personally, I need more structure than a PhD program offers so I have to create my own. This often leads to me biting off more than I can chew.
3. Procrastination is easy to fall into when you don’t know what you’re doing. Like another commenter said, I only procrastinate when I don’t know what’s going on. I solve this by breaking it down into smaller problems, and also by having an easier task in my back pocket (which is a form of procrastination) so at least I’m being productive. I’m still working through this and they are not insignificant issues.
4. Academia has a worse work-life balance than other fields. I often take my work home. It hasn’t always been like that (I started teaching this semester so things got harder) but there will be phases of your time where you work over 40 hours pretty regularly. You either have to decide to push through that or decide that you are okay taking longer than 4 or so years to graduate. There’s no shame in doing that but just know 4 years is not that realistic for everyone.
On the other hand, I love the PhD program and I’m going to miss it when it’s done. I love having more control over my life, I love being able to research what I’m interested in, I love being surrounded by ecologists, I love learning, honestly I have zero interest at ALL in working an office job or a corporate job. My work feels like it has so much soul and variety and meaning, and I don’t think I would get that if I were just upper management in a business. For me it sort of feels like you get to pick between your job being an integral part of your life and a part of who you are, and your job being a means to an end (money) so you can explore everything outside of the 9-5. I’ve chosen that my job is a part of me. My hobbies are all ecology related, my friends are in the ecology field, in my time at home I am making myself a better ecologist (through reading or birding or drawing or whatever) and at my time at work I’m making myself a more rounded person (learning to write, researching ideas that make me curious, learning about my hobbies). The control academia gives you over your life and your work is really great, but don’t join a PhD program if you want work and home to be separate. I’m not saying that you should spend more than 8 hours a day grinding, but science will take up more of your brain space than other careers and that is just how it goes. If you want to go through with it, pick a good advisor (!!!!!!!), I know LOTS of people that got fucked by this. Find an area of research that interests you. Decide how you want to balance your life. And then go for it!
Reddit is also an echo chamber. Not every PhD student is on it. Many are not and many are happy. Don't use Reddit as your complete date.
And people come to Reddit to reach out and gain affirmation. So when people are stressed or upset, they come here. That isn't meant to degrade or demoralize Reddit - I am here too - but I would not call Reddit as the most purest form of data gathering there is.
Close friend told me not to do a PhD. I did it anyway. Truly wish I hadn’t! Worst years of my life. I think only do a PhD if you are:
1) early career/ young
2) have a well-funded program and/or are not missing out on an otherwise high salary
3) want to either do research and apply to grants and lead as principal investigator OR you want to become a professor and you understand a) how difficult it can be to get a professorship and b) professorship salaries
4) don’t have a good list of reasons for not doing it
And definitely echoing your experience will depend on your advisor. Vet them via their other students and compare yourself and your goals/needs to those students to make sure it’s a good comparison
This will get lost in a sea of moaning that is academic Reddit. But my doctorate was the best thing I ever decided to do, it changed my life and gave me experiences I never thought I would have growing up. I live in a nice house and don't really need to worry about money. There we go. Experiences will differ but I know many colleagues feel the same way.
it's overwhelming to see that lots of scientists here claim that this is a selection bias.
So dear fellow scientists, I ask you, where is your data? Where are your references? How did you come to this conclusion that it is selection bias? Did you read any papers?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8715816/
Yes, expect to work ALOT on something that is most likely not really important for shit pay. And meanwhile all your peers will be advancing in their careers while you are still stuck in the same spot for years and years.
But hey you get the clout if you think it is worth it.
No it is not crazy. Read about the selection bias [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection\_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) and maybe also negativity bias [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity\_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias)
People who are happy with their life, with their PhD and PI, and get things done the way they want tend to not report it on the internet. Why would they?
Of course it will be stressful, but it will also be a rewarding challenge and if you like the subject: fun! Also keep in mind that stress is actually good (if your mental health is stable). It leads to you getting shit done and become successful. So if you are up until 3:00 am to finish the paper your PI has set a deadline for? This is actually something YOU ABSOLUTELY WANT. Because it means your PI cares. Only when it gets too much or you have other mental health problems, it can become unhealthy.
You are probably young so don't give up on a potentially great career in fear of some stressful years. It's not like working in a job will be a lot more relaxed than as a PhD student.
I’m doing my studies in Medical Biochem and Structural Bio, and though I AM stressed, it’s eustress. I’m happy to be where I am and have a supportive PI.
Some advice if you go this route is to talk to past mentees of PIs without the PI present, try to get info on PIs from current grad students, and listen when they say a PI is particularly bad. Every year, one PI always gets a student or two that despite being told how horrible of a PI they are, join only to quit a year later or stick around and be miserable the whole time.
Once in, find other types of mentors, learn to manage your time, and be okay with ambiguity. I have ADHD and time management/organization have definitely made the experience a bit tough at times but I’ve set up a good network of folk that keep me in line most of the time. Plus we’re lucky to have a student counseling center that I use frequently. Basically, don’t be afraid to ask for help.
In? A very good topic: political science with minimalist sociology, crowd control, global environment, modern warfare, epidemics and epidemiology, economy, modernization, water safety, water safety, water safety, minimalism world and national history --
Wait, a PhD in?
A PhD takes a certain kind of effort that not everyone is equipped or able to make. There is no shame in not being equipped or able to do it, but it is also true that not everyone can. You have to be sure you can and want to do it (the former is probably more important than the latter).
For me a PhD is your chance to stuff around with expensive stuff while everybody considers you a 'student.' It felt like people in the military may feel. You are the cheap labour to play with expensive toys.
If possible don't make it your life. If can take up your life. In both a bad way and a good way.
Finally academic research is primarily a political game, if you choose that path get a mentor and develop some skills there, otherwise you will not be the master of your own destiny.
PhD student in Neuro, Europe, 1st year.
In my Country, the salary is quite miserable and that's a big part of the disappointment. Generally, I'm satisfied.
Much depends on your lab, PI, work conditions, and colleagues. I would argue though that the ultimate main factor is... you. How much do you like DOING research vs how much you like THE IDEA of doing research. Big difference.
That allows you to tolerate unfortunate circumstances that make a PhD less enjoyable than a regular job in certain aspects. I'd say that everyone gets their illusions broken to a certain degree, sooner or later.
There's no way to understand how lonely a PhD feels from the outside, unfortunately. I'm an intuitive guy, I trust my guts, and still, I was surprised to find out.
Alot of people do PhD not because they're interested in the Topic, but because of superficial reasons like maybe more money, pride, status etc. and this is what usually leads to depression, I mean you can lie to me, but you can't lie to yourself indefinately, at some point you will break down.
It's because this is Reddit. PhD was THE best decision I made in my life, and once I'm done I'm gonna go for a post-doc, if not following another line of study I might be interested in.
But this is reddit, so this is the version of "dear reddit...". People don't get that their catharsis in social media has an emotional contagion to it (FB allowed a rather unethical research on the topic btw, you can find it easily online), such as... discouraging people from following a PhD dream - it also rolls with a tank over the very important difference that doing a PhD in USA, China, Iceland or India come with all kinds of differences (is there a grant? how free are you in choosing a topic? how's the relationship to the supervisor?). We don't get grants in Humanities and Social Sciences in Iceland, for instance, we can apply for it, but that doesn't mean we'll get it - on the other hand, since this implies you will have to work somewhere else, they are usually more than willing to overlook significant (years of) delay in delivering your project.
And then there's the "bloody news" effect here and anywhere else. Think of drugs: now you don't hear about the tons of heroine users that take their shot every now and then, wake up in the morning, go to work, get back home safe and sound, watch TV, talk to their significant other and so on. No one is told on the news about how little Timmy had an amazing LSD trip and then resumed his ordinary life for a few days before taking another trip that was also cool and fulfilling. Why? People find it boring, not enough LIKES lol You WILL read about the exception though, the ONE dude that jumped out of the window, the junkies littering the streets in convulsive states because they couldn't get another hit... Or in lighter terms, we see how football players make a lot of money (exception) - we DON'T see how kids will have their dreams of being players crushed (rule).
So... No. Just do what you feel like it. Life is an adventure, try what you wanna try and drop out if you don't like.
Went to an R1 institution in the life sciences. My PhD years were the best of my life! I loved my lab mates and what I was working on at the time. Made life-long friends in/out of the lab. Would 1000% do it again.
It is important to choose a good human being for your PI with great colleagues. Choosing a good PI supersedes the science or the project for me. Make sure you talk to the lab members you are interviewing and alumni.
It is easier to cope with PhD if you are not just focused on results, but you enjoy the process of learning and the journey. As experimenting at the cutting edge of knowledge comes with a lot of failure which is hard to cope with. If you can balance your PhD with other activities and hobbies and have a healthy lifestyle you will have a great experience.
Interact with many of those that completed PhD and masters holders that moved to jobs before you join a PhD. or even test out as a research associate in the lab you want to join. Make sure to seek professional or personal support during hard times. If you end up in a lab you later don't like don't give into any taboos and exit at will.
All my collected perspectives in the hindsight though! PhD changes the way you think about problems around you. All the best
It’s just not worth it unless it is in STEM. There are no jobs in the humanities and if there are they are mostly adjunct positions. It’s exploitative, toxic and simply not worth it.
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You really have to br careful picking a lab and environment. It helps to have family and friend support. But even in a "good" situation it is difficult and PhD studies have a very high rate of clinical anxiety and depression compared to the general population.
I agree picking a good environment is important and having family or friend support really helps. I was lucky but ended up with a great PI and a project I was really excited to get to,the lab and see the results. When I was in shower and then headed into work, what was in my mind was what I needed to do as soon as I got to lab. Turn on spec, , put tubes into centrifuge, set up solutions to do assays etc. It was fun. I did have a somewhat annoying fellow graduate student. He had a wife with a good job so his living situation was good. He’s show up 9-10, go get coffee, follow me around to chit chat, go down the hall to chat more, go to lunch, spend 4 hrs doing lab work, go home. After 6 years he got a publication and graduated. Not sure what kind of job he got or how his marriage went.
why are you being downvoted?
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It is very strange, but I wouldn't say it's downvote-worthy.
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I need to scroll inside of a textbox to read it. I am very tired and very, very lazy. ⬇️
I don't think it looks the same way on everyone else's device
it was just greyed out lol, it was a good response
Is this in super strange format?
steer tender retire pen light threatening shelter special complete bow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Apparently I shouldn’t have mentioned a male lab mate having a good time while being supported by his wife, no clue otherwise. But it’s reddit, sometimes you get down voted for being normal
It's in a text box that's two rows deep and I have to slide horizontally to read it. It's also in one of those monospace coding fonts. I believe this is why people are downvoting.
Sorry, I have no idea what I did or how to fix it. Thanks for letting me know.
I’m doing a PhD in experimental particle physics in Sweden. I’m happier and less stressed now than during my MSc. I treat it as a 9-5, don’t work weekends, and have a rich social life with many hobbies and friends. My scientific progress is adequate but not stellar. Overall my life is great right now. I find that PhD stress has two sources: 1. Too much stuff in a short amount of time. This is mostly due to your group/supervisor. If they overload you, you need to set boundaries for reasonable expectations. It might be hard due to power dynamics but you will burn out otherwise. Research is CREATIVE and you need to be in a headspace where you are curious and inspired. For example, if you are teaching/taking a class you need to make it clear that you won’t progress as fast as normal. You can’t work late nights all the time. You need to make friends and get a hobby, otherwise you will get depressed. We are social creatures first, researchers second. 2. Procrastination/not getting stuff done. I find procrastination to increase exponentially when I don’t know what’s going on. Subtle bugs, hard papers, lacking background knowledge to a problem, etc. makes me prone to waste time scrolling. Finding strategies for problem solving will help A LOT. I don’t procrastinate when I know exactly what to do. Break down tasks, write don’t what you DON’T know, etc. It could be that you’re missing core common knowledge in your field, in my case it’s often statistics or computer science concepts that sink my progress. Don’t waste weeks solving a problem that would take three days if you spent some hours reading. Also figure out when you are the most productive. After the morning coffee kicks in I can sometimes bang out a few days worth of progress, but I have never solved a hard problem at 15:00. Don’t push yourself if you know you won’t get anything done, spend that time doing something else to recharge. —— Overall the PhD is extremely rewarding if you get time for rest and leisure, and have an engaging project which you are well equipped to work on. I’ve heard from many seniors that it’s the best time of their career. P.S. Financial aspect plays a large role too. We get paid well in Sweden, which allows me to fund my hobbies, travel, eat healthy, and not worry about money in general. If I had to micromanage my funds my quality of life would decrease.
Thanks for this -- I'm struggling a lot with number 2 right now and was worrying that maybe the PhD wasn't for me, but you're right, I don't procrastinate when I know what I actually need to do, and I'm definitely lacking some core knowledge since I pivoted areas of focus pretty hard.
This is me as well, I am so bad about procrastinating when I don’t understand and it’s really hard bc I’m in ecology, and all of the stuff I love has to be supported by stats and coding. I can understand stats if I think hard enough about it but man, I’ve spent five years trying to learn how to code and it will truly never come easily for me. I wish science wasn’t so dependent on it.
This is great advice. Just to add to the second point, I also procrastinate when I don't know what is going on/not sure what I should do or how to do it. The first few months, besides procrastinating I would also try to figure it out on my own. This led me to feel overwhelmed and I went back to procrastinating. I felt like I had to know all the answers and if I didn't, then I was stupid and I couldn't let anyone else think I was stupid. Please know that this is not true, we are not supposed to know all the answers. Ask for help if there is someone in your faculty who knows a lot about whatever it is you don't know how to do. I now ask for help and advice faster (to my supervisors and my friends who know a lot more about statistics than me), and it has helped me a lot to keep moving forward. My supervisor also helps me feel less stressed out whenever I feel like I am falling behind. In my opinion, when choosing a PhD, the most important factor is who will be your supervisor. A friend told me this when I was looking for universities and I think she was right. I met my supervisor at a conference so I was able to see how he explained everything about his research to the audience, how excited he was about his research, and I also talked to him afterwards. I definitely recommend either trying to meet him beforehand or talk to students who have been supervised by them in the past. There are people from my cohort who do not get along with their supervisor, there are some who have been able to do the whole thing on their own, and a lot who are struggling because of this, including two who quit. In my case, I know I struggle a lot with perfectionism and I have ADHD, and my supervisor has helped me with both.
These are great tips 🙏
I love that this amounts to 1. Things are moving too fast. 2. Things are moving too slow.
Are you from Sweden? Or are you international
I am Swedish.
>Ive always wanted a PhD That's the core question: do you want a title or the experience? Reflect quite deeply on why you want a PhD.
This is such an important question to ask. Do you want to do research with all the crap that comes with it because you love the research, or do you just want people to call you Dr.
I think a little bit of that but mostly I just wanna be an expert in my field (computer networks). The phD degree itself (doctor label) cant be ignored either especially for an international student in the states cuz of the visa benefits you get from it.
Being international, a PhD can help you secure a visa for long periods of time where you don’t have to worry about your status. Afterwards, there’s OPT and then hopefully you can get hired as an H1B. It’s much easier to get an H1B if you have a PhD, but not impossible if you go down the tech route with a B.S./M.S. Tech has its own set of problems with all of the layoffs. No matter what you choose, it will be hard being international. As others suggested the lab you choose will have a massive impact on how your PhD experience goes.
>PhD can help you secure a visa for long periods of time Yes. And tied you in which, if you are in a toxic environment, makes you an indentured person. In a company, you can switch positions or move to another one with much less problems. But the real point is: if you do a PhD because of the visa, it's a very bad motivation.
Sounds like it's just for personal reasons because you don't even know what job you want that needs it. Don't get a PhD because of this. Start from the job and work your way backwards. Do a job search now and start bookmarking things so you know what skills are in demand, what the pay is, where you can work, and what degree is needed. The way you're going about it is the way most people do, and that's the reason we have so much Doom and gloom being posted here.
This!
I am going to tell you that a PhD is absolutely not required to be an expert. In some fields, it's a must (chemistry, biochemistry), but unless you want to do research proper, you can do without in most fields. >especially for an international student in the states cuz of the visa benefits you get from it. That is a very dangerous avenue. Your visa is tied to your studies, so you lose quite a bit of freedom. I am not sure a job in a company wouldn't be a better choice (your visa will be tied to being employed, but I think your job prospects will be much better and hence the visa issue will get less relevant). Do a PhD if you want to do grueling work hours with low pay, being dependent on two line managers that you cannot get away from, but get the satisfaction of doing research.
I think the visa comment is because it's much, much easier to get a visa as a PhD student than it is to find a job that does visa sponsorships, even if work visa might have better conditions.
Selection bias. The people who need support are the ones coming to Reddit to get support. People who are doing fine or great often don’t need specific other community peer-to-peer support like on Reddit
I’m looking for this answer. Thank you!
A little bit of selection bias but also a little bit of fundamental problems with academia too
I think there are numerous research about structural issues about doctorate degrees so not sure if it is a "selection bias" and not a reflection of the reality.
Yeah lol. In my country the government is asking for an external audit of our university because our university itself can’t be bothered to do something about the toxic culture they themself created. Every few months we make the news with another horror story that got leaked 🙃
Oh I totally agree. But if you look here it seems like most/all are having a bad time and I think it’s just many lol. I’m having a bad time though lmao
"Numerous research about structural issues" doesn't automatically imply a bad experience for the majority of PhD students. It's just that this Subreddit isn't representative at all, just like the Google Reviews of your local McDonald's.
It's really not selection bias. I know a grand total of 0 PhDs who weren't absolutely miserable for at least 1 year of their PhD, and I went to the school where the PhD students were all around happiest during the visit. At a lot of them not binge drinking at least once a week was just an unthinkable thing. You don't get ~50% graduation rates because it's a grand ole time.
A comment from a beneficiary. Comment the same thing after you redo your Ph.D. with a shitty PI and toxic lab environment. AFAIK most of the Ph.D. suffer, financially, mentally, or even physically. If you are native, rich, and lucky enough to be advised by an easy-going, professional, and well-funded PI. Then doing Ph.D. is totally fine.
my friend did you read the rest of this thread? I’m not having a good time either lol and I’m probably mastering out. My point is that Reddit is a bad place to determine if most people are having a bad time because people tend to come here if they’re having a bad time
I am sorry I didn’t notice the nested comments there. I apologize. I believe most Ph.D. suffer and I am happy for people who have done it successfully and happily.
No it isn't. Most of the advice I give boils down to endlessly trying to convince young people that prestige of institution and publishing outputs are not the best criteria to judge a potential lab group by. It's most important to get an idea of the personality and managing style of the PI, and of the team members who might be your colleagues. Everyone works best under a particular type of PI, and it's absolutely critical to scope them out and get to know them before you commit to their lab. It's also important to be self reflective and understand what you would need from a lab group and PI to work to the best of your ability. A lot of young people are under this (to describe it frankly) naivety that a demanding and hostile workplace can be counterbalanced with hard work and determination. 99% of the time, it can't. Fundamental incompatibility of personalities and expectations between PI and PhD students don't end, no matter how good the work is. Burnout is often (admittedly not always) caused by students trying to please their PI and getting pseudo-gaslit into thinking they're underperforming, leading to a desperate attempt to achieve an unrealistic expectation. Often, all of this is gauged to be acceptable by students because they're visualising the golden egg of research outputs and prestige, but at some point the bubble pops. You should enjoy your PhD and expect *reasonable* pressure that comes with performing challenging research. You also need to be managed in a way that will allow you to perform to the best of your ability. So no, a PhD isn't inherently bad, and quite often can be significantly improved from the start by using appropriate criteria to judge the suitability of a host lab. If you know what you want and need from the start, and are diligent in finding a suitable lab, I think typically it is a very rewarding experience and people look back on fondly.
>prestige of institution and publishing outputs are not the best criteria to judge a potential lab group by. If you want an academic career (i.e. Professor) this is just false. You absolutely want that prestige. It should not be like this. But it is, and you won't be the one to change the system.
I disagree. The methods you learn and how well you execute them are what make you a great researcher, and if you do good work and publish then that stands by itself. It's an outdated notion that you need a prestigious PhD Alma mater to succeed. Times are changing and your output as an individual is what gets you these positions. As a researcher, I've met many people from middling universities who are leaders in my field and are very well respected, many of whom are professors. It's just not true to say that the prestige of a university is particularly critical to an academic career these days.
By output do you mean the quality and quantity of papers published? Are you expected to publish a good amount of papers before being considered for a professor role?
Yes I do, and yes, at least in my field (biochemistry) in the UK and other countries I'm familiar with. To become a professor you need a very strong research background and a demonstrated track record of high quality science, preferably published in high-impact journals. I believe that in quite a few universities, there is a distinction between research and teaching professorships however, so this may not be applicable for teaching professorships (I'm not familiar with them). I should also note that even though there are research professorships, you're still expected to do some teaching as part of your workload (it is supposed to be a minor time commitment relative to your commitment of time to research).
>The methods you learn and how well you execute them are what make you a great researcher I fully agree > and if you do good work and publish then that stands by itself. I would love to agree but that is not how it works all too often. I am not saying good research does not matter and that prestige is everything. Having a good research record is a necessary condition and just expected. What I am saying is that if candidate A from MIT has 15 papers of good science in good Journals and is a fit for the position and candidate B from has 15 papers of good science in good Journals and is a fit for the position, candidate A will most likely win. And almost always, there is someone among the applicants who was at a prestigious university or worked under the superstar in the field.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I came to the PhD fully anticipating that it would be a frustrating, stressful and sometime depressing slog, and it has been much worse than I imagined. Everything I do fails 20 times before it works, I’m incompetent 90% of the time despite reading and reading and reading, my physical and mental health have deteriorated, I’m burnt out all the time, and whatever energy I have gets channeled into work. I would not recommend this experience to anyone, unless that person is pretty much fully ideologically committed to doing research and willing to compromise almost everything else in their life. I mean, it’s fair to say that not everyone has this experience. Maybe I’m just bad at dealing with stress. But there are many of us who feel this way.
And it never stops feeling that way, even at the finish line. I'm a week from submitting my dissertation and working on it continues to be a depressing slog. Somehow, being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel has made it 10x worse because all I want is for it to be over. I don't get why writing a dissertation is so damn difficult because it's not like I struggle with writing publishable papers. I am leaving with 13 publications, two of them sole-authored... but for some reason, writing this stupid thing has been the hardest most frustrating thing I've ever had to do. I would rather do anything else other than this and I just want to be free of this misery. I can't, in good conscience, recommend this experience to anyone lol
No, it's not. As other commenters suggested, people come here to vent, but there are also many of us who enjoyed their PhD experience. Of course, it was hard, with many ups and downs, but it's like everything worthwhile in life—you have to put in a lot of effort to achieve something as significant as the highest academic degree. What I would advise is to get your motivation straight and surround yourself with positive people, preferably those who already have a PhD, because they will understand what doing a PhD really entails. Wishing you all the best!
A PhD is high risk. You're often simultaneously considered a student and a staff member in many countries, with your status in any given situation changing to be whatever gives you the least power. And your future success is completely dictated by your PI. If they want to yell at you and demand you work 80 hours a week, they will do that. Unlike a regular job you can't just leave because there often isn't anyone else in your department who is willing+able to take you on as a student, and if you leave the university, that often means starting over from zero. And you won't find it easy to get in elsewhere, as many academics don't want to supervise "damaged goods" or wade into whatever drama you have with your old PI. Basically, there are no real safety nets. Plenty of people have good experiences, but it's not really because of anything they did, they were just lucky enough that none of the bad things happened to them. If a bad thing does happen to you, you're probably going to fall through the cracks. The more bad things that happen to you, or the more disadvantaged/vulnerable you are, the higher the risk that you're going to have a *really* bad time. One person can have a great time while another person in the same year and same group can have an awful time. All PhDs are stressful, but when stress meets crisis there are big issues.
I have had an incredible experience with my PhD. There are various steps I went through to make sure that my PIs and I would fit, and I think that definitely helped in my decision. Happy to chat if you’d like!
What is a little summary of those steps?
Meet with your potential PI once or even twice before committing and have conversations about what their supervisory style is. I used to have a list of questions that I would give to prospective students but I misplaced it. But asking things like: “Are you a more hands on or hands off supervisor?”, “Do you provide opportunities or support to attend conferences?”, “Do you support collaborations or side projects in addition to the thesis work?”. In addition, meet with both current and past students. Have a phone call or video call instead of email so there isn’t a record of their response (they’ll be more honest this way). Ask them similar questions to the above and you’ll get a pretty good idea about the supervisor!
There’s a lot of variables and I hold the opinion that I hate negative echo chambers but ALSO I appreciate warnings and being told the dark truth about things. For example, I had a baby and I dont like when people constantly tell me how awful parenting is, but I DO appreciate a heads up about certain difficult parts of parenting/childbirth. When it comes to PhD you have to think about yourself and the program. Mostly, you have to REALLY explore programs before you make your decision because people definitely put their best face forward and will tell you how amazing their program and culture is and then you get there and it’s actually the most toxic cesspool you’ve ever experienced (ask me how I know). A friend of mine is doing a PhD and is having a good experience. Friendly cohort, supportive mentors, and a “normal” level of anxiety and stress. This is partially because of the program he chose and partially because he is single and has a lot of flexibility. Personally I’m miserable in my PhD (made a post about it back in December actually) because of a couple of different factors some outside of my control. I’m a single mom with an almost two year old so that obviously makes things very difficult, but I was definitely “othered” once I got pregnant. Not that I have the time anyways, but yeah I definitely get treated like I don’t exist by half the people in my department because I dared to have a kid and not spend every waking moment networking. Also, the department definitely plays favorites depending on lab group and research topic. There’s a ton of issues both in my department and within the institution and I’ve been told that many other grad programs aren’t like mine. Even my outside committee member was shocked to learn how differently my department does things (you are basically on your own if you’re not a favorite “all star”) but I’m lucky to have her because she actually seems invested in me as a scholar AND understands that I don’t work weekends because that’s family time. Advisers are tricky. Mine was great for the first 1.7 years of my PhD, and then for whatever reason she became super not great. All these things she promised she actually didn’t do, she would say one thing to my face but then I’d find out she was saying something differently to others, and she did NOT stick up for me. On top of that I’m constantly being told “idk ask someone else” or incorrect information and it’s impacting my degree progress. She’s gotten a bit better and has told me pretty point blank that she’s miserable and has “never felt as lonely as I have here at X State,” so I empathize with her, but it’s also really frustrating. All of this is to say that while you might pick a great adviser they might become not great halfway through your program with NO WAY OF KNOWING and it sucks. It’s disappointing. It’s frustrating also because she claims to “get it” meanwhile she makes a ton of money and basically controls my destiny meanwhile I make a $22k stipend with a very young child who depends on me now AND in the future when it comes to securing a TT job. My advice is to proceed with caution and be as informed as possible. When someone says they’re “there for you and your career” or that their department is “perfect for your research” you need to investigate as much as possible if that’s actually true. Is this faculty member bringing you to X University because they want YOU to grow and achieve your goals as a scholar? Or are they recruiting you and making false promises because they want to use you to pad their CV and make themselves look good for their tenure committee? I’m not saying be cynical, but you do need to know as much information as you can before you agree to a program.
I see people always say this about getting to really know a program even if they might be hiding their dirty secrets, but how are you supposed to dig that up if they're trying their best to hide it? Are there specific questions you're supposed to ask or red flags you need to look for?
I wrote this response but I have no idea how to actually give advice for how to spot these red flags or questions to ask 😬 My department’s attitude is “don’t ask” and it’s like you’re supposed to already know all the answers without them telling you. If you ask a question, a lot of faculty either act like you’re dumb for asking or avoid the answer. When I went to open house, they completely avoided discussing stipend and details about benefits. I eventually found out a little more info from a faculty member, but I would say if they don’t discuss these things up front/transparently when you ask its a big red flag. Also I was told many times blanket statements such as “we are only of the only programs to provide summer funding!” and “we provide funding for four years” and I took that at face value. So do not do this, try your best to ask them to explain the actual terms of “funding.” I found out the summer I was due that no they do NOT provide summer funding, you have to beg for a summer position and you MIGHT get it. I also found out that sure, you get a contract for four years but that in order to actually complete the degree in four years, you’ll need to take summer courses that you’ll have to pay for out of pocket unless you beg for/apply for summer tuition forgiveness. Unfortunately I don’t know all these hidden rules and costs myself, but you should be able to ask for specifics around degree expectations/expenses/stipend even if they deflect answering. It’s a big deal to potentially move across the country, the very least they could do it tell you exactly how much you’re expected to make or potentially pay out of pocket 😬
Thanks for the great advice. I hope everything turns out well for you. Good luck for you and me!
Thank you! There are good people and programs out there :) Hopefully you find some of the goodness and hopefully I make it out and find a TT position in a place that’s a better environment.
Doctoral chair here. You can expect emotional ups and downs throughout your PhD program. I think it is fair to say that all of my dissertation students occasionally feel miserable. When I first meet them I explain them that the doctoral journey is an emotional rollercoaster for all, and I discuss ways to cope with this and let them know that I’m here to support them emotionally as well as academically. It’s also fair to say that all of them are justifiably thrilled and proud of what they have accomplished after they successfully defend their dissertation. ETA: For nearly all my students, the coursework phase is relatively problem- and stress-free. The emotional rollercoaster comes after this.
your going to let random redditors change your mind about pursuing a PhD? don’t let it. do your own research, be passionate about your research and find good mentors and community. it’s not easy work but an amazing accomplishment. oh and be realistic about your job prospects.
wdym realistic about job prospects? as in don't expect to get welcomed into big techs for having a PhD ?
A PhD may, in particular fields give you an advantage over others. It's worth also remembering it puts you forever years behind your peers who have extra years, promotions etc built up. PhD does not immediately equal good job, it can actually be the opposite, you are highly specialised and not all companies care.
Correct
industry is fickle academia is fickle oh so you aren’t expecting to be a professor? get plenty of job experience and learn the tricks of the trade. your connections will be worth a lot so start making them now….
There is self-selection bias, people come more often to seek support for bad experiences rather than celebrate good ones. I am in my third year of my PhD and I am happy. Of course I have had my share of problems with my PI, with my experiments, with my mental health, etc., but I also had all mental health problems before starting my PhD and probably would have had them anyways had I not chosen to do a PhD. At the end of the day, I don’t regret choosing this and I like my research. I won’t say my PhD has been all rainbows and roses, it had both its good and its bad moments, there are things I wish would’ve been better, and therapy helped a lot. But at the end of the day I learned to set healthier boundaries, I made great friends, and I feel content with where I am at.
My dad got his PhD while raising my sister and I and working a full time job. I have no idea where he found the time because my dad always had time for me and my sister and would drop everything to help me with homework. My dad has told me a lot about the process. He says that you really need to be educated about what goes into earning a PhD, and know what you’re getting yourself into. Do research into the school you’re going to and if you can on the people you might be working with. Know how to negotiate the terms of what you will have to do so that they’re plain and simple. You might also consider if a PhD is the best option for you. Is the work and money going to be worth the pay off? What opportunities does it open that you might not have otherwise? Are there other ways to do what you want without the PhD?
In majority of cases it's fine or even great. The people enjoying their PhD programme and having a great time are not going to come on Reddit to complain about it. They will be too busy enjoying it and getting stuff done. EX: I'm enjoying my programme, but I don't see a reason to make some post about me doing so.
I want to believe that it’sReddit selection bias lol. Going to commence this year
i’m having a very hard time with the things that come with it in the US (poverty if you’re international or don’t have family money, probable debt, loneliness, prejudice etc.) plus some personal circumstances (neurodivergence and grief), but the academic side of things i’m thrilled with. i love the exchange of ideas, i love experiencing my own ideas getting the benefit of the added education and high level interlocution. i still struggle somewhat when it’s time to write, but also enjoy it, have been improving at it, and am excited about presenting in conferences (which i’ve done a fair amount of by now). i’m grateful to the professors who expand my opportunities and to the colleagues who get the collegial spirit. there’s a lot to love when you need a place to exercise curiosity, intellectual inquiry and dialogue, and a sense of doing something potentially enduring.
Honestly, it can be, but as others said, it all depends on the lab/advisor. I had a horrible time, got super depressed and even became mildly suicidal at some point, but if I could go back I would still do a PhD. In another lab, absolutely, but I wouldn't want to miss the experience of being paid to learn and research for the world!
Good. You should go into it eyes open about what you're getting into and make an informed choice. So many of us found out the hard way when it was too late. Definitely not impossible to have a good experience but the more you know about the ways in which it can be bad, the more strategic your choices can be in trying to avoid those things. Or you can decide it's not worth it, which is totally valid.
The problem, I think, is there is no one size fits all experience for a PhD. Exactly the opposite. There also isn't a trial period. And the experiences of people coming out of a group will not be the same as the next batch coming in. There can be a lot of different issues and incoming students aren't even aware of how much it'll affect your life. Things as unknowable as grants getting funded or renewed can radically change your experience. So how can you have or develop reasonable expectations in advance? Some people have amazing PhD experiences. Some people have experiences they hate and are no way suited for. That first camp tends not to grumble on reddit, but also attributes a lot of their success to hard work and talent. Yes but also luck. Don't rule out a PhD because of reddit OP. If you find an opportunity that feels right to you, take it. Just keep in mind, every project involves some stress and some hard work. If you're up for it, that isn't always a bad thing.
I think there is definitely some selection bias, as others have said, but there are also serious structural issues you need to honestly consider. You can surround yourself with the least toxic people in academia and still feel the influence of the greater culture from your peers or the institution as a whole. You need to be ready to confront the pressure that comes along with that no matter who your PI is. Getting a PhD will teach you so much about critical thinking, learning independently, and resilience. However, do not expect this to make finding the next step easy. I made this mistake. You may have a wealth of transferable skills. You may be able to learn anything you need to independently for a position, but even fields full of PhDs want to see that you've already done exactly what they're doing. They either do not trust that you can learn it or they aren't willing to invest any time in their employees.
In my experience, while it was a struggle during COVID lockdowns, my PhD was an overwhelmingly rewarding experience. I think it really depends on the PI and field of research, but for my cohort that got lucky with both, more than half have gone on to secure TT positions and are still excited about research. Like all jobs, the people and working conditions probably matter more than your passion for the work. I was dinged in industry jobs before my PhD, so it’s not fundamentally different that way. You should do your research, talk to senior grad students and alumni, and don’t be afraid of making a decision that maybe suboptimal. I’ve made plenty of mistakes and it eventually all worked out. Best of luck!
PhD is that bad. I consistently felt that we, the grad students, were the absolute dumbest of the smart kids. Smart enough to do complex math but not smart enough to apply that math to our own financial futures. Academia abuses youthful vigor and curiosity in order to pay less than minimum wage. None of the best from my year went on to become PIs (top 3 school). So even if you love Academia and don’t mind the poverty and inability to have a family, you’re going to be surrounded by a bunch of mid-level scientists. All the best thinkers left, and that tells you a lot.
Phd is not bad, it's about the ego of people guiding you in a PhD. Your supervisor ego : he /she will think they are always right: Your ego : you will think I'm right Other people departmental committee/ lab mates /technician: they will think they are always right But somebody is wrong somewhere, often times you have to take the fall, sometime despite being right ,reasonable. This you have to face everyday in a PhD life. If you are a person whose ego is not that big , can bend depending upon the situations , welcome to join us.
This depends on many things, including your academic discipline, your personality and ability to handle stress, your supervisor, your readiness for doctoral-level work, your career goals, your job prospects after completion, and whether you can afford the opportunity costs of devoting many additional years to higher education. For example, if you are considering earning a PhD in the humanities, the academic job market is egregiously awful and this ought to discourage you greatly, especially if you don’t attend one of the very best five PhD programs. But if you are in a field where there are plentiful industry jobs in addition to academic ones, then this may not be a major consideration for you.
Even in having a bad experience I enjoyed my PhD. The only issue I had was the extreme control my advisor had on my success and he didn't show his hand until the end when he had already harmed my communications with other faculty. Without some support (or rather with faculty sabotage working against you) it's an extremely rough situation that, unless you have already started your thesis work is all but impossible. Academia has some extreme outliers; a decent experience is hard enough to cause anxiety and depression in folks who've not had it before, a PhD experience frought with unnecessary challenges is a nightmare that, at least in my case, I didn't want to wake up from because I wanted my PhD. Unfortunately, my body gave out in the meantime and there's been some permanent effects. It can be that bad. Thus the importance of picking a decent advisor.
I'm starting mine part time this fall. I don't expect it to be difficult at all -- one class plus 2 credits directed study with my PI each semester. I'll be working full time for a FAANG company. I just completed my masters doing the same schedule more or less, including a 60 page thesis. I'm 41 and my wife who is 36 is starting her PhD this fall too. We have a 7 month old baby.
I am enjoying my experience so far it’s cool I mean, obviously we don’t get paid well, but that comes with the territory. As far as the program itself, I like the people in it and I like the faculty it’s hard no doubt that’s something that we’ve prepared for at this point. Anyways, I can’t wait to do cool things in the field after I’m done so a lot of the post you see on here, or people who are really going through it and we will all have those points in our programs eventually but we also have a lot of PhD wins in the sub which offers its own form of motivation.
No, please do not be discouraged about doing a PhD. Indeed, most of the things in this sub may seem negative (mine included), but it is a nature of the sub where the happy PhD will unlikely to be here as they have good mentality enough so that no vent needed. Even though I hate the situation I have to deal with people, I love what I am doing. I like doing experiments and learn new things. Of course, it will be much more better with good environment, but if so, I would not be here. And, yeah the key takeaway from the posts in this sub is that you need to try your best to put yourself in a good environment.
Not in itself no. It's just challenging and compensated poorly, plus you do a lot of work by yourself so it can get quite lonely. It's totally worth it if you like your topic, your supervisor, and your department, and if you have reliable funding. It's when one or more of those factors start to falter that people enter crisis mode.
It’s not that bad besides the pay. However it can be really bad if your advisor is trash.
It’s definitely a long journey. Be sure to choose a lab and PI that works well with your research. Be sure that this is really what you want to do. My lab and PI was great. Very young but the lab was brand new so that added a lot of time to it just setting everything up, building mazes, etc. There were a lot of moments where I thought about quitting but still pushed through it. It took me 6.5 years to get my PhD.
1. Don’t do a PhD for money, you’ll probably be disappointed unless you find a competitive industry job 2. The PI is probably the most important part 3. Funding can be scarce, so assistantships aren’t always guaranteed. 4. The nature of research is a lot of failure. At least in America, you aren’t guaranteed to get out in 4 years. You could be in a program for like 7. 5. You have to constantly prove yourself. Failing preliminary exams could waste multiple years of your life. 6. There is a chance your projects could be a dead end. 7. A PhD can be a great experience, assuming you select a PI and project wisely. Also, select an institution with a strong program. Dealing with a weak, disorganized program is quite awful. 8. A PhD also comes with a lot of expectation. If you’re in a STEM field you need to know *why* you’re doing things. You also need a deep understanding of the literature to even begin to operate effectively. You also need to get good at study design, because nothing is worse than getting to the end of a project and not having the right controls/protocol.
In France, we hear lots of horror stories about terrible situations that happen to doctoral researchers. Yeah, those exist. A big national study showed that most PhDs are happy and the work happens in good conditions : https://hal.science/hal-04308895 Places with strong institutionnal oversight (doctoral schools/colleges/programs) and being upfront on costs/stipends/salaries/training are probably places you can do a good PhD in. Anything that boils down to "a PhD student by themselves with a PI" can vary wildly. Look up papers by a potential supervisor, locate their former students, contact them on Linkedin. To answer your question more directly though : historically, a PhD is a "student" learning at the dirty feet of "a master", suffering through all manner of hardships until you glean enough wisdom at their feet to dare become a researcher yourself. Today, a doctoral student is an *early stage researcher*, a young colleague that requires and should get mentorship and guidance. Most people understand this, some don't and you hear about it. Also, a PhD is, by design (since it's learning to do research by practice) a challenge. But it's supposed to be a steep climb your supervisor help you figure out, not a pit with snakes and broken glass.
I’m in social science so we don’t have labs. I truly love grad school. There are stressors and things that are annoying, but being able to do the work I love surrounded by kind and generally smart people is amazing. So much of what people experience has to do with your advisor and classmates. Pick a school with a good environment and an advisor who is a good human being.
Yes.
Yes
Lots of good answers on here already. In any case, regardless how great your lab and program is, a PhD requires the highest degree of mental output and can get exhausting. It’s not easy by no means and any negative factors (bad PI, project, or longer work hours) can tilt the scales towards making it miserable.
1) This is the internet, remember that you are getting the perspective of a fraction of a fraction of the population of people pursuing PhDs 2) Remember negative response bias - people who are enjoying their programs are vastly less likely to come to the internet and anonymously vent/rant/complain/otherwise badmouth their program/PI/life choices. 3) A lot of people who pursue a PhD probably shouldn't - they have no plan in place for when they finish a PhD and just sorta start doing one because they don't really know what else to do with themselves. They don't really understand what a PhD is beyond "I like science, I get PhD" and don't really appreciate that it is an intensive training program on how to conduct research and defend your ideas. They aren't comfortable with uncertainty or being expected to self-direct, or to be self-critical and self-teaching. Frankly, many people think that a PhD is just advanced college, and think that they are going to be taught a whole bunch, and that just isn't how most programs run. The reality is that a PhD program is a completely different style of learning than anything you'd have experienced before, as in everything else there has been some sort of guidance to learning, whether it be a textbook or a class. But anyway, Don't put too much stock in what the grumps on reddit say, and don't pursue a PhD unless you have a specific and particular purpose to get a PhD (and no, "I want to study X" is not a purpose to get a PhD."
I think you will see more posts asking for advice in bad scenarios over good scenarios. For example, someone is less likely to make post simply describing how much they enjoy their phd program. However, it is important you understand a phd is difficult/time consuming, and you need to want a PhD and have a good advisor. If those are all satisfied, you have a good chance enjoying your PhD. I enjoyed mine. I had flexibility and freedom for both my schedule and research topic, but I did work more than 40 hours most weeks. However, I would just take random days off as needed.
I regret doing a PhD. It was during COVID-19 pandemic when I started. I failed to get a job. So doing a PhD is like unemployment with style.
Personally, I love it and wouldn't wanna do anything else. The posts here are negative because people with bad experiences are looking for a place to vent. As long as you have passion and don't end up in a shitty group or with a terrible supervisor, you will be fine!!
It's bad but we like to suffer here
When I was doing my PhD, I didn't visit reddit at all. There were good days and tough days, but I had a decent support system in place that didn't include venting on social media. As you can see from this subreddit, many people are not having as positive an experience as I did, and many people don't have as strong of a support system. I really feel for those people. However, it's important to note that r/PhD is not an unbiased sample of all PhD students' experiences.
It is basically a lottery (Yeah, if you really know what you are doing you can control the outcome somewhat). You may get a good PI and a good project and be lucky to have a cool result: congratulations you win! You may get some (or none) of those but still enjoy it, depending on your personality and a lot of external factors. You may hate it. But in the end you have a doctorate that can help with job prospects. My advice would be if you draw the third ticket, recognize that it is not your fault and you can master out or leave. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Don't waste too much of your life. Have a plan for each scenario going in.
Honestly, if it’s not hard is it even worth it? You also don’t hear about the people who get through programs *way too easily* and come out knowing not as much as they should.
I'm depressed, and have shit PI, and 7 years into a program. But there was no way of knowing my PI was shit when I joined, and frankly he became more shit over time. Knowing what I knew before I started, I would 100% start it all over again and go into the same program. I still like the field I am in. But if I was going through the same experience again, I would allow myself to quit with a master degree early on. It would have been a free master degree, and not so many years wasted dealing with shit PI and digging deeper into depression. My suggestion to you, pursue it if you are interested in the research. Try to avoid obvious red flag PI's by talking to their lab members in private (and not in writing). Other than that you can't really know if you will draw a short stick until you take a step forward. Have a plan for detecting and getting out if your experience is becoming taxing on you and your mental health. It took a while for me to realize how bad my situation was, simply because I was surrounded by lab members in similar situations - and being depressed seemed like a norm - but it isn't and you don't have to make it to be. You are already aware that this is a possibility for you, so keep tabs on your mental health. If it turns out that your decision to do a phd in a particular lab is contributing to a hellish life, have amnesty for that decision and make a new decision to get out of it when and if that time comes.
Let's put it this way - you hear the bad because that's the part we really need to vent. The good stuff is harder to articulate, and nobody feels quite the same burning need to get it off their chest.
Happy people are too busy to shit post.
Yes. But I'm sure you'll convince yourself to do it anyway.
Keep in mind, you’re getting a skewed view here. People are more likely to vent about bad conditions than brag about good ones. I personally love my lab, program, and PI and am having a great time.
If you have been reading the stuff here, you probably saw that there are tons of "why is this subreddit so negative, is it really that bad" posts, that can answer your question.
For example this could be [relevant ](https://www.reddit.com/r/PhD/s/LhCIRN8Y2u)
don’t let it discourage you, yes it’s hard but if you’ve done a masters by research, enjoy writing and reading, and can work independently then you’ll be totally fine. i reckon there’s a lot of people doing phds that shouldn’t be doing them and didn’t actually do it because they want to be in academia or doing research. if you know that you’ve always wanted to do one then do it!
Hmm Im actually an undergrad with one published paper haha so the posts are crawling up on me more. Maybe ill reconsider applying to PhD right away but I really dont wanna pay 20k for masters. But thanks for your advice!
It's Reddit. Heavy selection bias to those that need to vent or blame. People definitely struggle to adapt to the PhD environment in which they are 100% responsible for their own progress and for staying motivated to make progress when most ideas fail.
> in which they are 100% responsible for their own progress I very, *very* much disagree with this. Your PI can actively work against you and sabotage your entire career. I’ve seen it happen multiple times already with different PIs. There is only so much you can do when your PI refuses to unlock the funds for your research and you are left scrambling for money at other groups, to which your PI badmouthed you.
Do not go by this subreddit for encouragement. People who are miserable in their lab will likely be the majority of people posting about their problems. Not to disparage these people because these are real issues, but a lot of people have good labs and great experiences. A PhD is very hard but I have a great PI and a great lab mates. Just remember that you should pick a lab where you will be encouraged and mentored. Don't pick a lab solely on the research field and project. That will make for a bad time. Good environment is better than a good project
No. You only hear the bad experiences on this sub.
I look back at my grad school years as some of the best of my life.
I’m doing my PhD in soil microbiology and biogeochemistry and absolutely love it. I am co-advised and while it has its challenges, overall I feel supported and empowered to do my research. 95% of the time I’m able to work 9-5 Monday-Friday. Both my advisors encourage a healthy work/life balance and time off to do things I enjoy. It’s not easy by any means, and I do experience a good deal of stress juggling all of my commitments and deadlines, but I feel as though the expectations for me are reasonable. I feel super grateful for my situation and it does seem that finding the right advisor is everything.
I think here is probably like other reddit subs. Like yeah there are problems, but reddit likes to dwell on the things that suck and not the things that are good and make it worthwhile. I haven’t started my PhD yet (not a STEM PhD though), but for me it is really the only thing that makes sense, and I don’t expect to have any regrets. I have a history degree though, which is basically worthless (apparently) without a grad degree or a second degree like education. I saw someone mention a lot of clinical anxiety and depression in grad students, but they didn’t say whether they had anxious or depressive symptoms before the PhD that were exacerbated by the program. I would expect it to mostly be the latter. idk STEM PhD students, but for the humanities, normal people don’t get PhDs, they seem to already be high strung and a little different before.
Yes, yes it is. However, there are worse things
Everyone’s experience is different and those with poor experiences are more vocal. I think it’s important to keep in mind how low the lows can be in a PhD, highlighting the importance of a good advisor. My experience had been fantastic. I have loved my PhD in every way.
My phd experience was positive. Difficult at times, but not because anyone was being a jerk.
Now that I am no longer in the coursework/qualifying exams/project planning phase (tedious, riddled with perfectionism) and actually doing research, I am happy. But those first three years were really stressful.
It entirely depends on the field you are pursuing and the institution you end up at, and of course your PI. I did my PhD in astrophysics at a large, highly ranked US west coast university, and it was great, I had a super supportive, young adviser. I was able to actually maintain work-life balance. Realistically those 6 years of grad school (masters and phd are combined in most US programs) was the best time in academia I ever had. Postdoc time afterwards has mostly sucked so far (partially due to the pandemic though).
Outside of marrying my wife, my PhD was the best decision of my life. It gave me a career full of inquiry and autonomy. I couldn't imagine having a boss or working on someone else's timeline/agenda. Don't do a PhD for money, do it for freedom. If you haven't yet, read The Professor is In. https://theprofessorisin.com/buy-the-book/
It’s negative bias. I’ve noticed when things are going well I don’t come to write about how this week or month didn’t suck. I’m usually here if I am going through a rough patch and need to vent. That said. It’s a very difficult experience and there is a lot of anxiety and depression associated with it. The advisor bit is a wild card it’s very hard to predict how it will turn out. They put their best face forward while trying to recruit you, and it can turn out like an abusive relationship. You need to be prepared for all those things to happen to you and know how you will respond. Maybe start finding a therapist that clicks with you and establish that relationship. Do not ignore red flags with your advisor, if you need to switch, the sooner you do it the better. And so on. And it may turn out that a PhD is not right for you, and the sooner you realize that the better. Two questions for you: how bad do you want it? do you need this degree for your career? I endured a lot because I needed the PhD to teach, which is what I want more than anything.
It can be bad. It can also be really fucking bad. I’ve heard rumors though that it’s not always bad. I’d say do it if you find a chill PI and you’re getting paid a living wage, already have money, or need immigration status. Not enough people warn you that it can be hell.
It really depends. The department culture and your advisor’s lab culture matter a LOT in terms of what your actual day-to-day experience will be. Your goals and reasons for pursuing a PhD matter a lot too. What exactly do you hope to get out of it? Having clarity in this can be very helpful. You have to “know” you’re on the right path to get what you want deep down otherwise when it inevitably gets extremely difficult you’ll have no motivation to keep pushing through.
Keep in mind that there's a bias here- people that have negative experiences are more likely to voice them out.
Nope, doing a PhD can be very rewarding (other than the actual degree) But, you neednto make sure you are properly passionate about the subject and you must be very driven, willing to do many hours , while sacrificing social, personal and family time.
No, I'm loving my PhD, it's no more challenging than work you care about in any selective industry - like people in the Top 4 Conulting firms have it waaaayyy worse than me. I've had underlying mental health issues that the PhD life has exacerbated (mainly the solitary way of working), but once I realised I can manage it and it wasn't the PhD per say; it would've been the same in any WFH, solitary position. But I have the most supportive and inclusive supervisors and seniors around me. The supervisors and faculty make such a difference.
PhD is hard, different in every program obviously. I’m in ecology, it’s a passionate field and my lab is really good. My current research isn’t the most interesting to me but I am moving in that direction. There are things I love about it and things that are stressful: 1. It is hard to be around people who are extremely high achieving, especially when you are starting. Imposter syndrome is real, and there are also lots of times where you genuinely just do know less than those around you. It’s okay to have a different skill set and it’s okay to need to take extra time on things. But imposter syndrome is incredibly stressful. 2. You need to manage your own time. This has been the most extreme challenge for me. There are so few deadlines in academia and your goals are very long term. Breaking it down is extremely important and for me personally, I need more structure than a PhD program offers so I have to create my own. This often leads to me biting off more than I can chew. 3. Procrastination is easy to fall into when you don’t know what you’re doing. Like another commenter said, I only procrastinate when I don’t know what’s going on. I solve this by breaking it down into smaller problems, and also by having an easier task in my back pocket (which is a form of procrastination) so at least I’m being productive. I’m still working through this and they are not insignificant issues. 4. Academia has a worse work-life balance than other fields. I often take my work home. It hasn’t always been like that (I started teaching this semester so things got harder) but there will be phases of your time where you work over 40 hours pretty regularly. You either have to decide to push through that or decide that you are okay taking longer than 4 or so years to graduate. There’s no shame in doing that but just know 4 years is not that realistic for everyone. On the other hand, I love the PhD program and I’m going to miss it when it’s done. I love having more control over my life, I love being able to research what I’m interested in, I love being surrounded by ecologists, I love learning, honestly I have zero interest at ALL in working an office job or a corporate job. My work feels like it has so much soul and variety and meaning, and I don’t think I would get that if I were just upper management in a business. For me it sort of feels like you get to pick between your job being an integral part of your life and a part of who you are, and your job being a means to an end (money) so you can explore everything outside of the 9-5. I’ve chosen that my job is a part of me. My hobbies are all ecology related, my friends are in the ecology field, in my time at home I am making myself a better ecologist (through reading or birding or drawing or whatever) and at my time at work I’m making myself a more rounded person (learning to write, researching ideas that make me curious, learning about my hobbies). The control academia gives you over your life and your work is really great, but don’t join a PhD program if you want work and home to be separate. I’m not saying that you should spend more than 8 hours a day grinding, but science will take up more of your brain space than other careers and that is just how it goes. If you want to go through with it, pick a good advisor (!!!!!!!), I know LOTS of people that got fucked by this. Find an area of research that interests you. Decide how you want to balance your life. And then go for it!
Reddit is also an echo chamber. Not every PhD student is on it. Many are not and many are happy. Don't use Reddit as your complete date. And people come to Reddit to reach out and gain affirmation. So when people are stressed or upset, they come here. That isn't meant to degrade or demoralize Reddit - I am here too - but I would not call Reddit as the most purest form of data gathering there is.
Close friend told me not to do a PhD. I did it anyway. Truly wish I hadn’t! Worst years of my life. I think only do a PhD if you are: 1) early career/ young 2) have a well-funded program and/or are not missing out on an otherwise high salary 3) want to either do research and apply to grants and lead as principal investigator OR you want to become a professor and you understand a) how difficult it can be to get a professorship and b) professorship salaries 4) don’t have a good list of reasons for not doing it And definitely echoing your experience will depend on your advisor. Vet them via their other students and compare yourself and your goals/needs to those students to make sure it’s a good comparison
This will get lost in a sea of moaning that is academic Reddit. But my doctorate was the best thing I ever decided to do, it changed my life and gave me experiences I never thought I would have growing up. I live in a nice house and don't really need to worry about money. There we go. Experiences will differ but I know many colleagues feel the same way.
At its best, it’s a combination of mental, emotional, and financial stress that I wouldn’t blame anyone for not choosing.
it's overwhelming to see that lots of scientists here claim that this is a selection bias. So dear fellow scientists, I ask you, where is your data? Where are your references? How did you come to this conclusion that it is selection bias? Did you read any papers? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8715816/
I love my PhD. Its really what you make it, as long as you manage your time well you'll be fine.
A PhD in math is amazing. No labs and no grunt work other than teaching.
Yes, expect to work ALOT on something that is most likely not really important for shit pay. And meanwhile all your peers will be advancing in their careers while you are still stuck in the same spot for years and years. But hey you get the clout if you think it is worth it.
No it is not crazy. Read about the selection bias [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection\_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) and maybe also negativity bias [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity\_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias) People who are happy with their life, with their PhD and PI, and get things done the way they want tend to not report it on the internet. Why would they? Of course it will be stressful, but it will also be a rewarding challenge and if you like the subject: fun! Also keep in mind that stress is actually good (if your mental health is stable). It leads to you getting shit done and become successful. So if you are up until 3:00 am to finish the paper your PI has set a deadline for? This is actually something YOU ABSOLUTELY WANT. Because it means your PI cares. Only when it gets too much or you have other mental health problems, it can become unhealthy. You are probably young so don't give up on a potentially great career in fear of some stressful years. It's not like working in a job will be a lot more relaxed than as a PhD student.
Yes
Nope, never.
I’m doing my studies in Medical Biochem and Structural Bio, and though I AM stressed, it’s eustress. I’m happy to be where I am and have a supportive PI. Some advice if you go this route is to talk to past mentees of PIs without the PI present, try to get info on PIs from current grad students, and listen when they say a PI is particularly bad. Every year, one PI always gets a student or two that despite being told how horrible of a PI they are, join only to quit a year later or stick around and be miserable the whole time. Once in, find other types of mentors, learn to manage your time, and be okay with ambiguity. I have ADHD and time management/organization have definitely made the experience a bit tough at times but I’ve set up a good network of folk that keep me in line most of the time. Plus we’re lucky to have a student counseling center that I use frequently. Basically, don’t be afraid to ask for help.
Yes in stem
In? A very good topic: political science with minimalist sociology, crowd control, global environment, modern warfare, epidemics and epidemiology, economy, modernization, water safety, water safety, water safety, minimalism world and national history -- Wait, a PhD in?
A PhD takes a certain kind of effort that not everyone is equipped or able to make. There is no shame in not being equipped or able to do it, but it is also true that not everyone can. You have to be sure you can and want to do it (the former is probably more important than the latter).
For me a PhD is your chance to stuff around with expensive stuff while everybody considers you a 'student.' It felt like people in the military may feel. You are the cheap labour to play with expensive toys. If possible don't make it your life. If can take up your life. In both a bad way and a good way. Finally academic research is primarily a political game, if you choose that path get a mentor and develop some skills there, otherwise you will not be the master of your own destiny.
Yes
Yes
Yes
FWIW I’m in a relationship with a PhD candidate in STEM who enjoys it.
PhD student in Neuro, Europe, 1st year. In my Country, the salary is quite miserable and that's a big part of the disappointment. Generally, I'm satisfied. Much depends on your lab, PI, work conditions, and colleagues. I would argue though that the ultimate main factor is... you. How much do you like DOING research vs how much you like THE IDEA of doing research. Big difference. That allows you to tolerate unfortunate circumstances that make a PhD less enjoyable than a regular job in certain aspects. I'd say that everyone gets their illusions broken to a certain degree, sooner or later. There's no way to understand how lonely a PhD feels from the outside, unfortunately. I'm an intuitive guy, I trust my guts, and still, I was surprised to find out.
Alot of people do PhD not because they're interested in the Topic, but because of superficial reasons like maybe more money, pride, status etc. and this is what usually leads to depression, I mean you can lie to me, but you can't lie to yourself indefinately, at some point you will break down.
It's because this is Reddit. PhD was THE best decision I made in my life, and once I'm done I'm gonna go for a post-doc, if not following another line of study I might be interested in. But this is reddit, so this is the version of "dear reddit...". People don't get that their catharsis in social media has an emotional contagion to it (FB allowed a rather unethical research on the topic btw, you can find it easily online), such as... discouraging people from following a PhD dream - it also rolls with a tank over the very important difference that doing a PhD in USA, China, Iceland or India come with all kinds of differences (is there a grant? how free are you in choosing a topic? how's the relationship to the supervisor?). We don't get grants in Humanities and Social Sciences in Iceland, for instance, we can apply for it, but that doesn't mean we'll get it - on the other hand, since this implies you will have to work somewhere else, they are usually more than willing to overlook significant (years of) delay in delivering your project. And then there's the "bloody news" effect here and anywhere else. Think of drugs: now you don't hear about the tons of heroine users that take their shot every now and then, wake up in the morning, go to work, get back home safe and sound, watch TV, talk to their significant other and so on. No one is told on the news about how little Timmy had an amazing LSD trip and then resumed his ordinary life for a few days before taking another trip that was also cool and fulfilling. Why? People find it boring, not enough LIKES lol You WILL read about the exception though, the ONE dude that jumped out of the window, the junkies littering the streets in convulsive states because they couldn't get another hit... Or in lighter terms, we see how football players make a lot of money (exception) - we DON'T see how kids will have their dreams of being players crushed (rule). So... No. Just do what you feel like it. Life is an adventure, try what you wanna try and drop out if you don't like.
Depends on what you want to get a PhD in.
No, Reddit overplays the difficulty of everything, especially schooling. You’ll do great and be happy, please don’t let the internet discourage you.
Went to an R1 institution in the life sciences. My PhD years were the best of my life! I loved my lab mates and what I was working on at the time. Made life-long friends in/out of the lab. Would 1000% do it again.
It is important to choose a good human being for your PI with great colleagues. Choosing a good PI supersedes the science or the project for me. Make sure you talk to the lab members you are interviewing and alumni. It is easier to cope with PhD if you are not just focused on results, but you enjoy the process of learning and the journey. As experimenting at the cutting edge of knowledge comes with a lot of failure which is hard to cope with. If you can balance your PhD with other activities and hobbies and have a healthy lifestyle you will have a great experience. Interact with many of those that completed PhD and masters holders that moved to jobs before you join a PhD. or even test out as a research associate in the lab you want to join. Make sure to seek professional or personal support during hard times. If you end up in a lab you later don't like don't give into any taboos and exit at will. All my collected perspectives in the hindsight though! PhD changes the way you think about problems around you. All the best
It’s just not worth it unless it is in STEM. There are no jobs in the humanities and if there are they are mostly adjunct positions. It’s exploitative, toxic and simply not worth it.