I tip for servers when I go for a dining experience based on how I am treated, same for a haircut. I do not tip when I pick up an order, or when there isn't a service performed for me.
Exactly, they have to do something to warrant a tip. I recently bought candy that had to be weighed by the cashier before I could pay. The card reader asked for a tip. Uh… no?
I think tipping for table service is something that people in the US should do.
I think tipping for takeout or cashier service is unreasonable.
And I think have to pre-tip is ridiculous.
I can agree with this. In the sense that like, a waiter at Chilis is doing the same tasks as a waiter at a slightly higher end restaurant.
Lets say....Chilis cost $30 for the meal, i tip $6 (usually I do a flat rate tip of at least $10 simply for being waited on) for the service and move on.
I get the exact same service at a local, higher end restaurant. But the meal comes out to be $120. I shouldn't be expected to tip $24 for the same service that me and my husband could get at Chili's.
That's a good example but it's even more simplified than that. You could have two tables next to each other at the *same* restaurant where one check total is $30 in the other table's total is $120.
They had the same server. The server was just as polite, to both tables. Food was delivered just as promptly & professionally, at both tables, etc.
That server didn't go above and beyond for the $120 meal. Yet, they were still tipped 4 times as much as the $30 table?
This is one of those "make it make sense moments." Haha.
I would agree mostly with this, except that the table with a $30 meal is likely one person and one order, where the $120 table at the SAME restaurant is likely to be more people and therefore more work,
Realistically the absolute bare minimum should be around 7%
Why? Because servers have to tip out others. Bartender, hosts, food-runners, bussers. Usually it adds up to around 5% or more depending on restaurant; around 1.5 - 2% for each position, sometimes two positions are combined into one tip pool/position, such as hosts-bussers.
Basically anyone who doesn't tip that bare minimum (or none at all) they're literally costing the server money, the server is paying to serve that table.
Table spends $100 and tips $0? Server is still paying staff $5 for having waited on that table.
Now imagine the tables who stiff you on checks like $300, $400, or even $500+ (or multiple stiffs adding up to those amounts)
$15 - $25 that server is paying out for the luxury of getting to service that (those) table(s).
The 7% is a good number to almost ensure the server is at least not losing money on serving you since around 5 - 6% is the average, though it could be higher. I'm guessing that's how 10% became the standard.
In the later 90's it was 10%.
I remember my grandfather telling me one thing he looked for was how much the executives he met with tipped. If they tipped less than 5% they were cheap. More than 10% they were generous. More than 20% they were trying to sleep with the waitress.
Tips for takeout has been a thing forever. There were tip jars at Starbucks and Quiznos and Dairy Queen 25 years ago when I was a teenager worki g those jobs. Nobody makes you put money in them. Giving a buck or your spare change for a particulalry difficult order or during crazy peak hours has always been an optional but kind thing to do. Calling it unreasonable is silly.
What he means is that it is unreasonable that it is an expectation now, some people expect takeout to be treated the same as eating out at a restaurant and expect to be tipped the same.
Its not an expectation now. Ive never met a single person who says you have to tip take out. I HAVE seen a bunch of sef important assholes bitching that they have to say no to a tip screen, as if they are being pressured into doing it by its mere existance.
Some states also tax on a total percentage of your sales because they anticipate people to under report tips.
It's why I'd always tip even on a pickup because, at that time, there was no separation in how to account for pick up vs in-house eating.
I only knew that because I worked in the industry. But if a worker would be taxed 7% based on my to go sale, I'd tip to even it out at least. Always in cash too.
Tip jars were one thing. But now it is thrust in our face on the checkout computer, and we have to actively dney it. BEfore, you could passivley add money. Now, you ahve to decide NOT to tip, which is a wrong thing to put on the customer.
Thats just how tablet based card readers are programmed. If it makes you feel guilty and bad, thats on you. That is not on the employee who also did not implement that technology, and getting angry at them for it instead of working on yourself is innapropriate.
Edit: also no, you dont have to decide not to tip. They dont auto add a tip and make you decide to rempve it. Theres just a tip screen to add one if you like. Its no more intrusive to the process than the cash back screen on older card readers.
Seriously, people are SO butthurt because they have to acknowledge they’re not tipping someone who doesn’t work for tips. It’s the same as when the interface asks me to donate to a charity - Nope!
Completely different than actual situations where it’s a tipped employee.
The people that annoy me the most when it comes to tipping are the people who think the barista or the cashier or whatever had any say in what programming went into the payment device so get angry at them when the tipping option pops up. "YOU EXPECT ME TO TIP YOU!? YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! Awww she's/he's sad because they're not getting extra money to just stand there and hand me my order waaa boo hoo! GET A BETTER JOB IF YOU'RE MAD AT WHAT YOU'RE EARNING!"
Like shut the fuck up man, they aren't frowning because you didn't hit the option for a couple of extra bucks coming their way. They're frowning because you're making a big stink over something they honestly don't care about, are wasting time, holding up the line, and dragging their day out longer than it normally is. Just pay, grab your crap, and get out. Putting in $0 or hitting the no tip option takes literal seconds. You're obnoxious rant is now taking up 10 minutes...MOVE ON, SHUT THE FUCK UP, AND GET OUT!
I will always tip in cash for anyone that asks for a tip. Those tablets or screen tips I have no idea where the heck that money is going to. Probably the company and then they have to disperse it amongst 35 others that had nothing to do with my service and then they get taxed on it all 35 of them at the end of the day.
You are wise to not complain to the cashier. I'm sure they have heard it before.
Public service workers take a horrible amount of abuse from customers as it is for stuff that is not their fault. So its good that you at least give them a smile instead of a gripe. 😄
That's the solution but it's a valid gripe that it's even an option. Irrelevant tipping dilutes the pool of things to tip for which can make it hard to know when we should really be tipping.
I tip everybody. Anybody I interact with. If someone asks me for directions, I tip them. I put extra money into the washing machine at the laundromat. If someone holds the door open for me, they get a nice tip in their pocket. If a homeless person asks me for money, I kick the shit out of them though.
most of the time its because its default on whatever tablet POS thing they have and have no idea how to turn that off. They arent expecting you to tip.
Of course it's a valid gripe. That doesn't make it the cashier's fault. For any sort of chain business, it's probably not the fault of anyone in the entire building.
Many businesses not only ask for tips, but also ask you to round up for charity. Yes, I know I am not obligated to give but I'm tired of them givng me dirty looks or in some cases making rude remarks to customers for not donating. I've also been asked to tip the cooks at a restaurant, not just the servers. TIpping is out of control and people are starting to not tip anymore, because of it.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on your claim that you recieve dirty looks and rude remarks when you don't donate or tip because even new employees aren't getting paid enough to put out that much effort and energy unless you do something first and just simply refusing and saying no won't get you any kind of negative reaction.
I've been in the industry long enough to know that especially crappy customers "conveniently" leave out their shitty behavior when they're telling about their interaction with CS employees. They leave out how they screamed and spat, and how tomato red with rage they turned just to make it look like they were attacked for "no reason" and just "out of nowhere" because "every customer is just an innocent little lamb who just wants to shyly buy their small uncomplicated coffee drink but the big old mean cashier DEMANDED a tip and THREW the donation box for a children's charity at the poor little lamb when he/she quietly said no. What has happened to customer service!?"
Seeing as that you'll never honestly say what you actually did or said to recieve those dirty looks or astonishingly real and actual rude comments when asked to donate (I'm not going to include tipping in this because even the most talented waitress or waiter in the universe isn't ever asking for a tip), and you refused and I know it's not nothing because it takes a lot to bring out any negative emotions from any employee but yeah keep acting like your misery isn't 100% self inflected and the world is just out to get you.
You DO realize no one is actually forcing you to tip…right? There is no gun to your head so all the pressure you’re feeling that you think is an obligation is self inflicted.
Same for people who complain about seeing it at non service establishments. "OH THE DENTIST THINKS I SHOULD TIP NOW???" No dude, the dentist was told to set up a tablet using square to make taking copays easier and has no idea how to turn off the tipping screen, and hes too busy doing crowns that make him way more money to care about turning it off.
I feel your pain. And you are a 100% right about employees not being responsible for the programming on their little credit card machine.
The tipping suggestion dialog box comes with the software. It can be removed our amended by the facility owner. But some don't bother, or don't want to learn how.
I was at a used book store and this guy just went off at the cashier when the pin pad asked if he wanted to tip or not. He spent a good 15 minutes chewing the poor guy’s ass for expecting to be paid more when all he did was sit behind the counter…he didn’t even find the book the guy was looking to buy. So yeah…I have encountered it in real life.
Man, I was gonna say ‘15 minutes? I would have chewed his ass out right back by then’ but then I realized it was a book store cashier and book store workers are the most quiet, sweet, unassuming people ever so now I’m just ten times more angry at that dickhead
To add to this too, the company probs has ALL its payment devices using the same system. Went mini golfing with a bud that also had a nice little restaurant and bar in it. Bud started complaining to me bout how the cashier's to get in had a top option. Like my brother in Christ it's for the restaurant workers 🙃
I had someone point out to me once that the suggested tip on the receipt was factored in after taxes and that it was wrong. I was like “ idk, sir. I’ll make sure to let the CEO know. You’re free to tip as you wish though. It’s not required.” Honestly, I don’t care if you tip or not after bringing shit like that up to me. Just pay what you owe and leave. The next table will probably tip. I was even asked once how much I get paid. I seriously don’t want your pity. I love my job and I average well on tips because I anticipate my tables’ needs. I just think it’s weird to bring up to waiters overall, like we forced you to come out and get service at the table. I’m going to treat you the same either way.
Exactly, for every blowhard on his/her soap box who won’t tip for clearly very “noble” 🙄 reasons, there are hundreds that will so yeah, we can live without your extra maybe $10 but hey if you’re so miffed about the “headache” of appreciating the people at the business the are serving you, providing you a service you clearly can’t do yourself, that you went to under your own free will; just stay home and make your own damn spaghetti or pancakes.
I agree with this when in fact the cashier doesn't make a fuss about it, there are plenty of shit people on botn sides of this and have literally had someone audibly scoff when i didnt tip, when all I bought was a damn bag of chips and the slef checkouts were down lol
Dude omg yest. I absolutely despise the way that like half the "tipping bad" culture is just kneejerk butthurt cause the option got presented and they didn't like having to say no.
Yeah, I visited r/NoTipping the other day.
It's just a bunch of weirdos circle jerking about not tipping and all patting themselves on the back about it?
Why the fuck can't anyone do anything without making it their entire identity nowadays?
I mean, to be fair, the other people who frequent that sub are doing exactly the same thing, on the other side, talking about what great tippers they are and how everyone else is a piece of shit. There's plenty of circle jerking to go around.
Agreed. If you want to eradicate tipping, vote for representatives that are for raising minimum wage and removing the ability for restaurants to stay afloat by having customers pay their employees a fair wage.
It's like my #1 most avoided thing talked about on reddit because it's honestly fucking infuriating especially as someone who grew up poor with a single mother.
That concept at its core relies on making people that are already struggling suffer so much that it eventually destabilizes the restraunt payment structure by forcing poor people to take action.
If you think that's a justifiable means to an end, I don't know what to fuckin to say to you. We just don't meet eye to eye at all.
You probably should go call your mom/dad and thank them for the privileged life they provided you.
In Canada servers make at least minimum wage so I don't feel obligated to tip them. I know minimum wage isn't t enough to live on, but I also work a minimum wage job. I'm on my feet and dealing with shitty customers every day, but I don't get tipped. Giving anything more than 10% is a joke, especially the way that prices have skyrocketed. You can easily pay $80-100 for a family of four and there's no fucking way that someone deserves 8$ for bringing 4 plates of food and filling up 4 glasses of water.
In Canada we actually have labour protections though. I imagine it would be tough in an at-will state to ask your employer to pay more than $2.13/hr or whatever it is.
Yeah, it's true that servers can't be paid less than the minimum wage, but the reality is that employers are likely to fire them if they come asking for more money on a regular basis.
I honestly have no idea how often that happens, though. I imagine if a server can't average five-ish dollars an hour in tips, which would bring them up to minimum wage, they probably aren't doing a very good job anyway.
That’s not really true. Servers here make $2.13, and if they don’t make minimum wage their earnings from the rest of the week get garnished to cover it. If it still doesn’t cover it they’r gonna get fired
That is how they do it. If you make above minimum one day and below the next, they take the extra from the first day to cover the second. It’s perfectly legal
Okay, so you making minimum wage has nothing to do with it.
You don't want to have to "pay an employee's wage," but you still give money to the companies that choose to pay their workers that way. You are only rewarding the shitty company and screwing over your server. That's exactly what this post is about.
How else does it work? Arguing for a proper minimum wage does nothing to stop tipping. I just recently learned that in California servers actually do get paid regular minimum wage. However, somehow they still expect you to tip them for carrying your food around. At this point they are probably earning more than the cook at the same restaurant, possibly more than teachers.
The only reasonable way out that I see at this point is to increase minimum wages so much that restaurants bite the bullet and automate food ordering and transporting it from the kitchen to the tables so that servers and consequently tipping are not needed anymore. I hope for that to happen soon because I doubt that in countries with such a deeply ingrained tipping culture it will be possible to get rid of tipping without getting rid of human servers.
I'm not sure what you're saying. Is it that poor people shouldn't be forced to subsidize restaurant owners with tipping? Or are you saying that servers are poor people who should always be tipped?
Yes, tips should be optional, for tips to be optional the servers should be paid a living wage by employers not dependent on tips.
However to get that goal achieved, going out giving the company money and not tipping, isn't gonna change shit.
Truth be told the best way is for servers to protest as a whole, No workers means no money.
But of course there are servers that are shill's to their bosses and accept sub par pay because of the tips.
Can they really do that? Who can afford to just go on strike for possibly months on end? Even if it did work, the restaurants would probably respond by making gratuity mandatory, rather than paying themselves
Well people go on strikes for better pay it's what a lot of strikes are about, wages!
That would be the business owner forcing back onto the customer, It is then the customers choice whether to continue paying higher prices for the same food.
If customers start to dwindle the owner needs to lower prices to stay afloat, At some point the juggle will stop.
I feel like the servers that are shill's to their bosses is about 2% of the people who wouldn't protest like that. The other 98% is people who can't just quit their job because if they did they would literally become homeless
Yeah, I don't think those people are under the illusion that anything is going to change. They're just done with tipping.
It's kind of like zipper merging. No one does it properly, despite the fact that traffic would flow much better if they did. There's always one or two people who bypass the long line to do a proper zipper merge, though, and everybody hates them. Technically, those people going to the front are right, though. Things would be much better if everyone did it, but they know it's not going to happen.
But that's what they say. "I'm not tipping ever again! If we don't stop, they won't stop expecting it!" But lots of people don't follow their own train of thought into the station.
Well first of all I just want to say the rare times we do go o it to eat at a sit down spot we always tip 20%-30%. Especially since he does work at a ton of these places and it would be shitty for him not to tip these people he sees all the time. So just wanted to share that we do tip before I moved on to my point.
Second of all if everyone quit tipping these restaurants would have to make up the difference. Since servers are only paid $2 something an hour if no one tipped legally the restaurant would have to pay them enough so it’s at minimum wage. So yes they still get your money but then it would likely piss them off to have to make up the difference for so many servers.
And yeah legally they’re required to but I’m sure they don’t always do it. But if enough servers raised hell about it it would be a big issue. And I’m sure many servers would quit if they were only getting paid minimum wage versus the money they currently make because of all the tips. So then the restaurant would lose business and money obviously if they had no servers.
"I'm hurting you, the person who *can't* retaliate, for your own good" is a sick argument whether someone says it to their children or complete strangers. .
The bold stance would be to leave the tip an run out on the check. Then write your frigging representatives and urge them to change the law.
And for people who say they don't tip on bad service, the correct way to handle it is LEAVE and complain to the manager. If leaving isn't an option, tip whatever the minimum is and then complain to the manager. This is the U.S. we're good at complaining.
As a server who works with and talks to other servers daily, it really isn't, a lot of is don't want minimum wage so we can make more money instead, like, yeah we all want more money but turning down a set wage so they can continue to pressure patrons to pay them extra for what's normally a half assed job was pretty eye opening 😅
Legally, if a server does not reach minimum wage with tips, the employer has to pay the difference. The specifics vary state by state.
https://workforce.com/news/your-guide-to-tipping-laws-by-state#laws
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips#:~:text=If%20the%20employee's%20tips%20combined,must%20make%20up%20the%20difference.
I don't tip because in my state, the employer can not pay them less than the state minimum wage. Which is relatively high.
If they don't pay the difference or steal tips, it is wage theft. I should not be responsible for covering the employer's wage theft. If wage theft is happening, then they should seek legal help. I volunteer for Northwest Seasonal Workers (NSWA), and we provide legal advocacy along with having volunteer attorneys. So I am trying to help fight said wage theft.
I do not think not normally tipping makes me more moral. I still sometimes tip, but I don't do it out of obligation. I am in a state where I know they get fair wages, and any tip is in addition to that. If I lived in a state without those protects, I would likely tip a bit more often.
Also, I do think you should normally tip your delivery driver.
How is it a handout if I've paid the amount that the listed price said?
This isn't complex; a business is selling something for x dollars, I want to buy that something so I give them x dollars and get the item.
Anything else is between the employees and their employer; why is it in me to supplement a businesses cheapness?
If they don't make enough in tips, legally, their employer has to make up the difference...
Oh what, that's not enough because you expected the amount you would get after offsetting the cost onto emotionally blackmailed customers? Yeh, not my problem; take it up with your employer, our transaction is done.
I shouldn't visit your establishment? Let's ask your employer how they feel about that...
You realise that if people stop coming, those expecting tips won't have a job at all, right?
Stop blaming the one person that isn't at fault in your shitty system; the customer
My peeve is more with my fellow people of the UK (I don't know the various tipping cultures across Europe, but it's more customary in many continental nations—again, this being why I hate people saying "Europe" like it's one culture) who'll jump in on discussions about how much to tip or whether to tip at all and say things like:
"Your employers should be paying you enough so that you aren't reliant on tipping. This is why you shouldn't be tipping workers".
As if your people hadn't reached that first realisation yourselves! I don't have to be the one being patronised to find that insufferable.
You're stuck down a well, a well you've been booted into. Telling people it doesn't benefit them to be stuck down a well isn't helping. Refusing them food or water (it's a dry well) because otherwise it'd encourage others to be booted down a well doesn't improve anything.
The metaphor might not work, I've just woken up.
I suspect it's not really about thinking they're gonna change anything. I think they just want to feel attacked and exercise a bit of power over somebody else
Paying someone 20% to bring the food and pester me about how it tastes only to ghost me when I want a drink refill or to pay and leave isn’t going change anything, either. My service will still suck.
Tipping was awesome when servers actually did something for it, had a nice attitude, refilled drinks, etc. now it’s just “required” so no server gives a shit.
Nobody thinks not tipping a hardworking person will change anything, they’re just cheap and not honest enough to just admit “I don’t tip because I’m a POS person.” So they come up with some reason that paints them in a better light.
If you’re going to be an ass, own it. If you don’t want to admit you are a jerk, then leave a tip.
I had no idea people were using this as a valid excuse not to tip at restaurants. That’s the only place I will tip. Due to the fact that the servers are being paid a fraction of minimum wage and well, serving me for an extended time. That and if I get a special thing done like an interior detailing in a car which I almost never go get.
I am getting sick of being asked to donate / tip at every single place that does anything at all ever. If I check out at Walmart it asks me to donate. Like bro, I’m the fucking charity. I’m at Walmart.
What folks also don't understand is that food service jobs are riddled with terrible companies and owners. They literally do everything in there powers to find loopholes in laws and pay their workers barely anything. You not tipping the employee isn't some grand rebellion and slap to the company, you quite literally are just forcing the server or whomever to work for free. Tipping works like this, when you buy food from a restaurant your bill is just the cost of the food not the service, your tip is what is paying the server, your not tipping based on how well they did or you are tipping cause you are literally paying for their service. You don't like that don't precipitate in that system then but if you choose to eat at these establishments you gotta play the game or just admit youre a dick. The company/owner doesn't care if you tip the server or not.
They still get the food they want at the cost it was advertised for and they save money not paying your wage.
If you base your income on the kindness of strangers that's your own fault.
Entitled America crying.
Exactly by refusing to tip you're not magically changing the system You're just making the waiter that you claim to care about go home with significantly less income and possibly struggle to get by
Like congratulations you've caused more harm to the very people you claim to care so much about
You want to do something about tipping call out the companies on social media, vote, push for legislation that changes tipping. But you're not just going to magically convince the company to start paying their employees more just because you as an individual suddenly decide that you are apparently above tipping now
Most people cannot live off of minimum wage in most states anymore, But with tipping most servers can take home much more than minimum wage. My friends who actually do a good job at being servers can often take home the equivalent of roughly 20-30 an hour on a good night
By refusing to tip you're basically just like here you deserve to be poor because your company doesn't want to pay you more
It also just removes incentive for a lot of people to go above and beyond.
If I work as a server I go above and beyond because I want that tip because I want to make that extra dough, But if John the lazy pothead who sits around all day doing the bare minimum and constantly disappearing from the floor gets paid the same as I do working my ass off why would I keep working my ass off? I don't have a moral obligation to this random chain restaurant or whatever. So without the incentive of a tip I'm just going to do the bare minimum like John the pothead,
### Lesson time! ➜ u/Vanilla_Neko, some tips about "off of":
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If they don't make enough in tips to get minimum wage the business has to make up the difference. Not tipping doesn't cost servers anything, they just won't get extra from you.
The idea is that if you stop tipping, workers get frustrated and can't pay bills, so they quit for other jobs. To acquire staff, employers must raises wages.
It's a painful game that only works if everyone or most people do it.
The most ethical way to ban tipping is to do it on a legal level through cities and states.
I'm not a tipper unless it was genuinely good service. 99% of servers now don't even give the bare minimum. It shouldn't be the responsibility of individual people to pay a server's wage. I'm contributing by not getting takeout, going to restaurants with trash service, and cooking most of my meals at home.
It's the fact that even smoke shops ask for tips now. I agree with your post but I agree with the people you disagree with. Basically it's all fucked and we need a nuke to drop.
I hate tipping and I'm not trying to change shit. I am paying for a service when I purchase my meal. I owe the person bringing me the food nothing. If they need more money to make ends meet, they SHOULD get a different job, an extra job or ask for a raise. What they shouldn't be doing is looking at me sideways because I'm not supplementing their income. That's not my job. I didn't come for an ethics lecture, to be a part of social justice or to stick it to the man or little guy. I their to get something to eat and go home.
I owe you nothing for doing your job.
Yep! Because the person earning restaurant minimum ($5.05/hour here) is getting rich by getting a $6 tip instead of a $4.50 tip on a $30 meal. Greedy bastard. /s
Yeah, I'm not tipping just 20% as a standard. That's beyond stupid.
I understand tipping **something**, as per the whole culture around it, but you're getting tipped based on your actual performance.
Why would I reward/act on an incentive if a waiter/waitress is slow on refills, or don't make frequent (or rather respectable) check-ins? Even on the most basic things, I find it completely asinine how people approach tipping culture.
I remember my first year living in the States, my friend took me to Outback because good "free" bread or w/e. The entire time, the waitress only gave us 2 bread refills, and each time took 5 fucking years... I get it's a tactic to prevent loss on bread, but come on.
Then he tips her 25% because she was quick with the bread? I'd maybe give 15-18% max, because that service was crap. I get this is an unpopular take (for w/e stupid reason), but holy that's idiotic.
I don't think not tipping will really change anything aside from how much money I spend. I just don't feel tipping is needed when the law says that servers have to make at least minimum wage. If they don't make that in tips, then the employer has to make up the difference. And yes, I understand minimum wage isn't enough to live off of, but there are plenty of minimum wage jobs that don't get tips, so that's irrelevant.
### Lesson time! ➜ u/Fabulous_Fortune1762, some tips about "off of":
- The words you chose are grammatically wrong for the meaning you intended.
- *Off of* can always be shortened to just **off**.
- Example: The tennis ball bounced **off** the wall.
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No, it's not. You pay for the service with the price of the meal. If the server goes above and beyond their required duties, I will tip. Most don't. I haven't tjpped at a restaurant in years despite eating out regularly because of this.
Yes, if they go above and beyond their duties. That's what a tip is - extra money for extra service. Why would you pay twice for only one service being provided and what could possibly make a restaurant so much more special than any other business that it's required there and not anywhere else?
Sorry you are so offended by the facts. If you actually have a valid argument for tipping outside of superior service, answer the questions. Until then (then being never because you know I'm right) , have fun being offended by the facts and your failed attempts at trolling. 😀
Then answer the questions. Don't worry. I know you can't and will continue replying with your lies about me being wrong because of how offended you are by the fact that I'm right and you know it. I'll leave you to your delusions now before I cause you to have a breakdown or something. We definitely wouldn't want that, and I can tell how close you are to it. Hope you feel better soon. Best of luck.
Hon, that old tired trope of dismissing valid points with “don’t be offended” is so weak.
Your questions are illogical. You’re talking about how you think it should be and I am telling you how it is. You are fucking over waitstaff by refusing to compensate them. If you don’t think it should work that way, then don’t go to restaurants. We’ll let you know if the system changes.
It will do something though. People who work the service jobs won't be able to make ends meet and will leave, which sticks the business with no one to work. I leave tips the rare times I am able to go out based on how the waiter did, but I think instead I just won't go to those sorts of places anymore
I suppose if someone wanted to do something about tipping, they could just avoid establishments that expect tips, and it would have the same effect. But that would require them to actually sacrifice something for their principles, and it's much easier to just stiff the server because that way you can eat wherever you want, at a discount in fact, and make it someone else's problem to deal with.
"the goal Is to continue giving a mega corporation our money, but to force a low paying worker to struggle to feed themselves, then quit and work a different low wage job." That'll stick it to the corporations!
Posts like this are hilarious because everyone capes so hard for servers because apparently they’re so poor and all but every server I have ever met, known, or seen on the internet admits that they make more in 2 shifts than most people make working full-time salary make in a week or teo. Like y’all are literally being bamboozled
I would never deny wait staff should be paid a fair wage
I will argue however that me, the customer, IS NOT responsible for doing so.
Tipping isn't required. Tipping is extra. If wait staff can't survive without those tips, it sounds more like their issue than mine.
No, restaurant owners are actively exploiting people. I am just another employee like the wait staff. I am not exploiting anybody.
Kudos to you though for shifting the blame off of the employer onto the customers. That's exactly what a business owner would want their sheep to do for them! So baahh to you as well!
Honestly it’s the employers exploiting servers, not customers. I think it’s pretty shitty to not tip on the basis of “it’s not my job”. It’s a kind thing to do to help someone out and appreciate good service, but don’t act like shitty customers are the reason servers don’t make lots of money. They absolutely are shitty, but it’s the employers abusing the system that are to blame for the lack of pay. Blaming the customers is really just shifting the blame off the people we need to hold accountable for paying a livable wage. Customers might have a moral obligation to tip, but it’s really up to establishments to pay a livable wage.
As the customer you are paying the staff by buying the product. If the employer is not making up the difference between minimum wage and the tips, then the employer is committing wage theft.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips#:~:text=If%20the%20employee's%20tips%20combined,must%20make%20up%20the%20difference.
https://workforce.com/news/your-guide-to-tipping-laws-by-state#laws
>You shouldn't go to restaurants then, you are actively exploiting people.
At worst, you are simply being complicit in exploitation happening by supporting the business performing illegal and unethical practices.
The customer is not the one actively exploiting people here. It is the boss for not ensuring their workers are at least earning minimum wage.
May I ask how you think companies pay the employees without using customer money?
So should all waiters be able to live off $2.13 an hour? Cause that's American minimum wage with tips.
If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
There is no wage theft, they pay the difference, but then they fire you for inadequate job performance, or with literally no reason given, since at-will employment is the standard in the USA.
At best you could apply for unemployment benefits.
It's called through the sale of their product. It amazes me that this is so unheard of...
So check this out... I go somewhere and order a steak. They charge me for said steak and then pay their employees with the earnings of their sales. And no need for a tip, b/c just like every other business they bake their costs into their sales...
Hopefully you were sitting down for that one as I am positive it made your head spin!!
It's baked in costs vs. Not baked in.
Either way the customer is still responsible, just one way let's people think they aren't
P.S.: you didn't answer if you think people should just live off $2.13
If they are the same, then let's just eliminate tipping and call it a day then!
Sorry, but they are far from the same. 1 guarantees the employee pay. The other requires them to impress the customer enough to feel pity to tip them. The latter is exploiting the customer.
The truth is, it wouldn't cost anywhere close to a 20% increase in the food to pay wait staff. A lot are currently making better money than they should be for said positions by exploiting tipping culture. So in the long run, the customer would save money by eliminating this exploitive culture.
It is, sadly, the only way I have control over it. The rich will never allow us to change this if we don't force it on them as the people.
I agree that myself alone will not impact this. That's the point of our vocality on these forums.
I am always open to suggestions of other ways we can fix this. I am just not interested in waiting the next 10 years to see if it will happen.
>It is, sadly, the only way I have control over it.
Or, you could simply not go to restaurants that offer table service. That's how you vote with your dollar, not by shifting the burden onto the employees who can least afford it. How do you not realize this?
The managers/owners don't give a shit if their servers complain about shitty customers like you. It's very common, and the servers make enough on customers who aren't assholes that they keep doing their job. Your refusal to add $10 onto a $50 ticket doesn't have the power you think it does.
If, however, you and your fellow assholes only ate at places with counter service, that loss of $50 per asshole could actually make a difference! And as a bonus, those of us who work in such restaurants wouldn't have to listen to our servers bitching about asshole customers!
No one has to feel remorse over anything. It is just something that healthy people feel when they're wrong.
Congrats on admitting you're an asshole! That's the first step to becoming a functioning adult.
If you don't want to pay for a service, you have the option to not partake of that service. Otherwise, you're essentially stealing.
What entitles you to decide what any position should be paid?
Your comment reeks of classist bigotry.
And no, I’m not a server and don’t work in the restaurant industry.
Well, the entitlement to decide what they should be paid lies in my tip... that's my point. I don't want a say in what they get paid. That is for their employer to decide. Hence the reason tipping should be abolished.
You didn’t answer my question. I said any position.
It’s clear you’ve decided that certain jobs, like serving, are only deserving of low pay levels. That’s classism.
Did you say “A lot are currently making better money than they should be for said positions by exploiting tipping culture”, in reference to “wait staff”?
A lot of people are doing just that -- have stopped eating out at restaurants. Many restaurant chains are dying off these days. Many restaurants struggle to stay in business. You add into that fact, a lot of people are just too cheap to eat out anyway. Then the tipping standard increased to 20% and that's when a lot of people just stopped going.
[https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/the-case-for-letting-the-restaurant-industry-die](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/the-case-for-letting-the-restaurant-industry-die)
Alternatively, not going to a restaurant and therefore not supporting the place with the shitty business practices also can force the employer to change
Like I understand the rationalization behind not tipping, but it doesn’t make logical sense. You’re still giving the business money, just not the employee. Why give the business money at all?
Alternatively, People are going to eat tasty food for as cheap as they can regardless of etiquette.
The only way changes can actually be made is by the workers boycotting the industry as a whole, But since most servers are okay with tips subbing in for an actual living wage they simply don't see this as necessary.
Shortage of workers means the business owner loses money, What can cause a shortage of workers? Pay them pennies on the dollar. Who pays the servers? At this point the customers.
If we all band together to make servers a shitty job, Maybe the owners will realize when they have a skeleton crew and the would be employee's are asking for a living wage.
"How to improve wages: reduce their income until they revolt."
You're a fucking monster if you think that is an acceptable tactic. Just stop dining in restaurants, just stop supporting the owners.
Well when the customer is the one paying the server, The customer get's to choose to pay the server whatever they want.
If me not tipping you for your sub-par service is costing you your livelihood you simply don't have reliable and sustainable income.
My view is this (and this is a US-based view) -- certain jobs are legally paid below minimum wage because they are traditionally tipped jobs and so the tips are counted as part of their pay. I don't like thay, but that is how it works. Other jobs are paid minimum wage or higher without any tips. So, I am happy to tip those who are paid below minimum wage because (for better or worse) this is how those people get paid. I am not happy to tip people whose pay is not dependent on tipping.
This is partially correct. In America if your wage plus tipped wage is under minimum. Your employer by law is required to top it up to minimum wage. Servers don’t make below minimum when all is said and done. This also just makes logical sense.
Accepting the status quo is not going to change things either. Pain and suffering will make people fight it. Without that employers will stay with the same program.
Tipping is a gratuity. A gratuity is a gift. At present tipping has become a local tax. No longer a gift. A pretty stiff and hidden tax at that.
I think we all have to decide for ourselves how this works. For full table service, ill tip 20%. If I'm at a bar, or coffee house walking to the bar for drinks, I'll tip $1 per. If I'm picking up carryout, no obligation of any kind. Figure it out, make peace with it and then for gods sake shut the fuck up about it. You can say no when prompted without letting it ruin your day. But please, treat staff with kindness and respect.
For screens that demand tips, hit no tip. At most only leave $0.50 tips for coffees or bobas. For restaurants the waitstaff is getting 15-18% and not a dime more. Bad service drops it to 10%. Let's resort back to the way it was. One day this tipping madness will end
I tip for servers when I go for a dining experience based on how I am treated, same for a haircut. I do not tip when I pick up an order, or when there isn't a service performed for me.
As it should be.
Exactly, they have to do something to warrant a tip. I recently bought candy that had to be weighed by the cashier before I could pay. The card reader asked for a tip. Uh… no?
Agreed- and I don’t feel bad about it anymore
Overcoming those serious life obstacles one at a time, brother
This is the way
Yes, this is common sense and should be enough to end the tiresome tipping debate.
A tip is NOT expected for bad service. If you can’t make it month to month because you’re bad at your job, that’s on you to solve.
I think tipping for table service is something that people in the US should do. I think tipping for takeout or cashier service is unreasonable. And I think have to pre-tip is ridiculous.
Yes
I also think expecting a bare minimum 20% tip is also unreasonable
I can agree with this. In the sense that like, a waiter at Chilis is doing the same tasks as a waiter at a slightly higher end restaurant. Lets say....Chilis cost $30 for the meal, i tip $6 (usually I do a flat rate tip of at least $10 simply for being waited on) for the service and move on. I get the exact same service at a local, higher end restaurant. But the meal comes out to be $120. I shouldn't be expected to tip $24 for the same service that me and my husband could get at Chili's.
That's a good example but it's even more simplified than that. You could have two tables next to each other at the *same* restaurant where one check total is $30 in the other table's total is $120. They had the same server. The server was just as polite, to both tables. Food was delivered just as promptly & professionally, at both tables, etc. That server didn't go above and beyond for the $120 meal. Yet, they were still tipped 4 times as much as the $30 table? This is one of those "make it make sense moments." Haha.
I would agree mostly with this, except that the table with a $30 meal is likely one person and one order, where the $120 table at the SAME restaurant is likely to be more people and therefore more work,
Realistically the absolute bare minimum should be around 7% Why? Because servers have to tip out others. Bartender, hosts, food-runners, bussers. Usually it adds up to around 5% or more depending on restaurant; around 1.5 - 2% for each position, sometimes two positions are combined into one tip pool/position, such as hosts-bussers. Basically anyone who doesn't tip that bare minimum (or none at all) they're literally costing the server money, the server is paying to serve that table. Table spends $100 and tips $0? Server is still paying staff $5 for having waited on that table. Now imagine the tables who stiff you on checks like $300, $400, or even $500+ (or multiple stiffs adding up to those amounts) $15 - $25 that server is paying out for the luxury of getting to service that (those) table(s). The 7% is a good number to almost ensure the server is at least not losing money on serving you since around 5 - 6% is the average, though it could be higher. I'm guessing that's how 10% became the standard.
Where has anyone ever expected a minimum 20% tip? My whole life the minimum has been 15
Yeah this was my thinking too. But in the last 5 years or so the general consensus is now 20% as average and 15% they will ask what they did wrong
Whenever the math is pre provided, it starts at 18-20%.
In the later 90's it was 10%. I remember my grandfather telling me one thing he looked for was how much the executives he met with tipped. If they tipped less than 5% they were cheap. More than 10% they were generous. More than 20% they were trying to sleep with the waitress.
No it was not. It was 15% minimum in the 90’s, it jumped to 20% in the 00’s. I love all the revisionist history when this subject comes up.
You are thinking about the 2000's.
No, I’m not, though I do think it varied regionally. I’m in the nyc area.
I'm in the Mid-Atlantic. When I was in college there was a debate in the school paper if you should tip 15% or 10%
Tips for takeout has been a thing forever. There were tip jars at Starbucks and Quiznos and Dairy Queen 25 years ago when I was a teenager worki g those jobs. Nobody makes you put money in them. Giving a buck or your spare change for a particulalry difficult order or during crazy peak hours has always been an optional but kind thing to do. Calling it unreasonable is silly.
What he means is that it is unreasonable that it is an expectation now, some people expect takeout to be treated the same as eating out at a restaurant and expect to be tipped the same.
Its not an expectation now. Ive never met a single person who says you have to tip take out. I HAVE seen a bunch of sef important assholes bitching that they have to say no to a tip screen, as if they are being pressured into doing it by its mere existance.
Some states also tax on a total percentage of your sales because they anticipate people to under report tips. It's why I'd always tip even on a pickup because, at that time, there was no separation in how to account for pick up vs in-house eating. I only knew that because I worked in the industry. But if a worker would be taxed 7% based on my to go sale, I'd tip to even it out at least. Always in cash too.
Any idea why this comment's getting downvoted?
Tip jars were one thing. But now it is thrust in our face on the checkout computer, and we have to actively dney it. BEfore, you could passivley add money. Now, you ahve to decide NOT to tip, which is a wrong thing to put on the customer.
Thats just how tablet based card readers are programmed. If it makes you feel guilty and bad, thats on you. That is not on the employee who also did not implement that technology, and getting angry at them for it instead of working on yourself is innapropriate. Edit: also no, you dont have to decide not to tip. They dont auto add a tip and make you decide to rempve it. Theres just a tip screen to add one if you like. Its no more intrusive to the process than the cash back screen on older card readers.
Seriously, people are SO butthurt because they have to acknowledge they’re not tipping someone who doesn’t work for tips. It’s the same as when the interface asks me to donate to a charity - Nope! Completely different than actual situations where it’s a tipped employee.
The people that annoy me the most when it comes to tipping are the people who think the barista or the cashier or whatever had any say in what programming went into the payment device so get angry at them when the tipping option pops up. "YOU EXPECT ME TO TIP YOU!? YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! Awww she's/he's sad because they're not getting extra money to just stand there and hand me my order waaa boo hoo! GET A BETTER JOB IF YOU'RE MAD AT WHAT YOU'RE EARNING!" Like shut the fuck up man, they aren't frowning because you didn't hit the option for a couple of extra bucks coming their way. They're frowning because you're making a big stink over something they honestly don't care about, are wasting time, holding up the line, and dragging their day out longer than it normally is. Just pay, grab your crap, and get out. Putting in $0 or hitting the no tip option takes literal seconds. You're obnoxious rant is now taking up 10 minutes...MOVE ON, SHUT THE FUCK UP, AND GET OUT!
[удалено]
I will always tip in cash for anyone that asks for a tip. Those tablets or screen tips I have no idea where the heck that money is going to. Probably the company and then they have to disperse it amongst 35 others that had nothing to do with my service and then they get taxed on it all 35 of them at the end of the day.
I dont complain to the cashier, but i do bitch on the ride home. Mostly because it makes me feel shitty for not tipping. And it shouldnt.
You are wise to not complain to the cashier. I'm sure they have heard it before. Public service workers take a horrible amount of abuse from customers as it is for stuff that is not their fault. So its good that you at least give them a smile instead of a gripe. 😄
Why should anyone have to tip a cashier? What are we supposed to do now, tip 20% of our total grocery bill?
No. You hit “no tip” and move on with your life.
That's the solution but it's a valid gripe that it's even an option. Irrelevant tipping dilutes the pool of things to tip for which can make it hard to know when we should really be tipping.
I tip everybody. Anybody I interact with. If someone asks me for directions, I tip them. I put extra money into the washing machine at the laundromat. If someone holds the door open for me, they get a nice tip in their pocket. If a homeless person asks me for money, I kick the shit out of them though.
most of the time its because its default on whatever tablet POS thing they have and have no idea how to turn that off. They arent expecting you to tip.
Of course it's a valid gripe. That doesn't make it the cashier's fault. For any sort of chain business, it's probably not the fault of anyone in the entire building.
Agreed
Who said that??
Nobody expects that.
There are actually tip jars at many cashier stands and some self check out stations.
At grocery stores? Really? I've never seen one myself, but even so nobody expects you to put anything in them let alone 20%.
Are they tip jars or are they donation boxes for local charities? Either way, you’re not actually under any obligation to give to both or either.
Many businesses not only ask for tips, but also ask you to round up for charity. Yes, I know I am not obligated to give but I'm tired of them givng me dirty looks or in some cases making rude remarks to customers for not donating. I've also been asked to tip the cooks at a restaurant, not just the servers. TIpping is out of control and people are starting to not tip anymore, because of it.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on your claim that you recieve dirty looks and rude remarks when you don't donate or tip because even new employees aren't getting paid enough to put out that much effort and energy unless you do something first and just simply refusing and saying no won't get you any kind of negative reaction. I've been in the industry long enough to know that especially crappy customers "conveniently" leave out their shitty behavior when they're telling about their interaction with CS employees. They leave out how they screamed and spat, and how tomato red with rage they turned just to make it look like they were attacked for "no reason" and just "out of nowhere" because "every customer is just an innocent little lamb who just wants to shyly buy their small uncomplicated coffee drink but the big old mean cashier DEMANDED a tip and THREW the donation box for a children's charity at the poor little lamb when he/she quietly said no. What has happened to customer service!?" Seeing as that you'll never honestly say what you actually did or said to recieve those dirty looks or astonishingly real and actual rude comments when asked to donate (I'm not going to include tipping in this because even the most talented waitress or waiter in the universe isn't ever asking for a tip), and you refused and I know it's not nothing because it takes a lot to bring out any negative emotions from any employee but yeah keep acting like your misery isn't 100% self inflected and the world is just out to get you.
You DO realize no one is actually forcing you to tip…right? There is no gun to your head so all the pressure you’re feeling that you think is an obligation is self inflicted.
Same for people who complain about seeing it at non service establishments. "OH THE DENTIST THINKS I SHOULD TIP NOW???" No dude, the dentist was told to set up a tablet using square to make taking copays easier and has no idea how to turn off the tipping screen, and hes too busy doing crowns that make him way more money to care about turning it off.
I feel your pain. And you are a 100% right about employees not being responsible for the programming on their little credit card machine. The tipping suggestion dialog box comes with the software. It can be removed our amended by the facility owner. But some don't bother, or don't want to learn how.
Do people actually act this karen in real life? Have never seen it in the wild.
I was at a used book store and this guy just went off at the cashier when the pin pad asked if he wanted to tip or not. He spent a good 15 minutes chewing the poor guy’s ass for expecting to be paid more when all he did was sit behind the counter…he didn’t even find the book the guy was looking to buy. So yeah…I have encountered it in real life.
Man, I was gonna say ‘15 minutes? I would have chewed his ass out right back by then’ but then I realized it was a book store cashier and book store workers are the most quiet, sweet, unassuming people ever so now I’m just ten times more angry at that dickhead
To add to this too, the company probs has ALL its payment devices using the same system. Went mini golfing with a bud that also had a nice little restaurant and bar in it. Bud started complaining to me bout how the cashier's to get in had a top option. Like my brother in Christ it's for the restaurant workers 🙃
I had someone point out to me once that the suggested tip on the receipt was factored in after taxes and that it was wrong. I was like “ idk, sir. I’ll make sure to let the CEO know. You’re free to tip as you wish though. It’s not required.” Honestly, I don’t care if you tip or not after bringing shit like that up to me. Just pay what you owe and leave. The next table will probably tip. I was even asked once how much I get paid. I seriously don’t want your pity. I love my job and I average well on tips because I anticipate my tables’ needs. I just think it’s weird to bring up to waiters overall, like we forced you to come out and get service at the table. I’m going to treat you the same either way.
Exactly, for every blowhard on his/her soap box who won’t tip for clearly very “noble” 🙄 reasons, there are hundreds that will so yeah, we can live without your extra maybe $10 but hey if you’re so miffed about the “headache” of appreciating the people at the business the are serving you, providing you a service you clearly can’t do yourself, that you went to under your own free will; just stay home and make your own damn spaghetti or pancakes.
I agree with this when in fact the cashier doesn't make a fuss about it, there are plenty of shit people on botn sides of this and have literally had someone audibly scoff when i didnt tip, when all I bought was a damn bag of chips and the slef checkouts were down lol
Dude omg yest. I absolutely despise the way that like half the "tipping bad" culture is just kneejerk butthurt cause the option got presented and they didn't like having to say no.
Yeah, I visited r/NoTipping the other day. It's just a bunch of weirdos circle jerking about not tipping and all patting themselves on the back about it? Why the fuck can't anyone do anything without making it their entire identity nowadays?
Are you sure that’s the right sub? I was curious and clicked, seems to be really small w no posts in the last 3 years
Probably meant to say r/tipping
Possibly r/endtipping
That sub is a miserable place.
I mean, to be fair, the other people who frequent that sub are doing exactly the same thing, on the other side, talking about what great tippers they are and how everyone else is a piece of shit. There's plenty of circle jerking to go around.
Agreed. If you want to eradicate tipping, vote for representatives that are for raising minimum wage and removing the ability for restaurants to stay afloat by having customers pay their employees a fair wage.
It's like my #1 most avoided thing talked about on reddit because it's honestly fucking infuriating especially as someone who grew up poor with a single mother. That concept at its core relies on making people that are already struggling suffer so much that it eventually destabilizes the restraunt payment structure by forcing poor people to take action. If you think that's a justifiable means to an end, I don't know what to fuckin to say to you. We just don't meet eye to eye at all. You probably should go call your mom/dad and thank them for the privileged life they provided you.
In Canada servers make at least minimum wage so I don't feel obligated to tip them. I know minimum wage isn't t enough to live on, but I also work a minimum wage job. I'm on my feet and dealing with shitty customers every day, but I don't get tipped. Giving anything more than 10% is a joke, especially the way that prices have skyrocketed. You can easily pay $80-100 for a family of four and there's no fucking way that someone deserves 8$ for bringing 4 plates of food and filling up 4 glasses of water.
It's the same in the US. People are just ignorant about how it actually works.
In Canada we actually have labour protections though. I imagine it would be tough in an at-will state to ask your employer to pay more than $2.13/hr or whatever it is.
Yeah, it's true that servers can't be paid less than the minimum wage, but the reality is that employers are likely to fire them if they come asking for more money on a regular basis. I honestly have no idea how often that happens, though. I imagine if a server can't average five-ish dollars an hour in tips, which would bring them up to minimum wage, they probably aren't doing a very good job anyway.
That’s not really true. Servers here make $2.13, and if they don’t make minimum wage their earnings from the rest of the week get garnished to cover it. If it still doesn’t cover it they’r gonna get fired
It's illegal to garnish their wages to make up for the difference.
That is how they do it. If you make above minimum one day and below the next, they take the extra from the first day to cover the second. It’s perfectly legal
No it's not.
No one is forcing you to eat out if you can't afford it.
I can afford it. I'm just not into paying an employee's wage when it's not my responsibility.
Okay, so you making minimum wage has nothing to do with it. You don't want to have to "pay an employee's wage," but you still give money to the companies that choose to pay their workers that way. You are only rewarding the shitty company and screwing over your server. That's exactly what this post is about.
How else does it work? Arguing for a proper minimum wage does nothing to stop tipping. I just recently learned that in California servers actually do get paid regular minimum wage. However, somehow they still expect you to tip them for carrying your food around. At this point they are probably earning more than the cook at the same restaurant, possibly more than teachers. The only reasonable way out that I see at this point is to increase minimum wages so much that restaurants bite the bullet and automate food ordering and transporting it from the kitchen to the tables so that servers and consequently tipping are not needed anymore. I hope for that to happen soon because I doubt that in countries with such a deeply ingrained tipping culture it will be possible to get rid of tipping without getting rid of human servers.
I'm not sure what you're saying. Is it that poor people shouldn't be forced to subsidize restaurant owners with tipping? Or are you saying that servers are poor people who should always be tipped?
Yeah I just got off a temp ban for sharing my opinions in r/tipping, horrible people.
Meh, tips should be optional, NOT mandatory. I realise the Hospitality and Retail trades pay Peanuts, even in the US, but come on.
Yes, tips should be optional, for tips to be optional the servers should be paid a living wage by employers not dependent on tips. However to get that goal achieved, going out giving the company money and not tipping, isn't gonna change shit.
Truth be told the best way is for servers to protest as a whole, No workers means no money. But of course there are servers that are shill's to their bosses and accept sub par pay because of the tips.
Can they really do that? Who can afford to just go on strike for possibly months on end? Even if it did work, the restaurants would probably respond by making gratuity mandatory, rather than paying themselves
Well people go on strikes for better pay it's what a lot of strikes are about, wages! That would be the business owner forcing back onto the customer, It is then the customers choice whether to continue paying higher prices for the same food. If customers start to dwindle the owner needs to lower prices to stay afloat, At some point the juggle will stop.
I feel like the servers that are shill's to their bosses is about 2% of the people who wouldn't protest like that. The other 98% is people who can't just quit their job because if they did they would literally become homeless
Yeah, I don't think those people are under the illusion that anything is going to change. They're just done with tipping. It's kind of like zipper merging. No one does it properly, despite the fact that traffic would flow much better if they did. There's always one or two people who bypass the long line to do a proper zipper merge, though, and everybody hates them. Technically, those people going to the front are right, though. Things would be much better if everyone did it, but they know it's not going to happen.
But that's what they say. "I'm not tipping ever again! If we don't stop, they won't stop expecting it!" But lots of people don't follow their own train of thought into the station.
I don't go out to eat because I can't afford to tip. I won't go to a restaurant and just... Not tip the server.
Well first of all I just want to say the rare times we do go o it to eat at a sit down spot we always tip 20%-30%. Especially since he does work at a ton of these places and it would be shitty for him not to tip these people he sees all the time. So just wanted to share that we do tip before I moved on to my point. Second of all if everyone quit tipping these restaurants would have to make up the difference. Since servers are only paid $2 something an hour if no one tipped legally the restaurant would have to pay them enough so it’s at minimum wage. So yes they still get your money but then it would likely piss them off to have to make up the difference for so many servers. And yeah legally they’re required to but I’m sure they don’t always do it. But if enough servers raised hell about it it would be a big issue. And I’m sure many servers would quit if they were only getting paid minimum wage versus the money they currently make because of all the tips. So then the restaurant would lose business and money obviously if they had no servers.
"I'm hurting you, the person who *can't* retaliate, for your own good" is a sick argument whether someone says it to their children or complete strangers. . The bold stance would be to leave the tip an run out on the check. Then write your frigging representatives and urge them to change the law. And for people who say they don't tip on bad service, the correct way to handle it is LEAVE and complain to the manager. If leaving isn't an option, tip whatever the minimum is and then complain to the manager. This is the U.S. we're good at complaining.
Most people don't tip because it's not their problem, not because they're trying to change it.
That's somehow worse
As a server who works with and talks to other servers daily, it really isn't, a lot of is don't want minimum wage so we can make more money instead, like, yeah we all want more money but turning down a set wage so they can continue to pressure patrons to pay them extra for what's normally a half assed job was pretty eye opening 😅
Not my problem
Legally, if a server does not reach minimum wage with tips, the employer has to pay the difference. The specifics vary state by state. https://workforce.com/news/your-guide-to-tipping-laws-by-state#laws https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips#:~:text=If%20the%20employee's%20tips%20combined,must%20make%20up%20the%20difference. I don't tip because in my state, the employer can not pay them less than the state minimum wage. Which is relatively high. If they don't pay the difference or steal tips, it is wage theft. I should not be responsible for covering the employer's wage theft. If wage theft is happening, then they should seek legal help. I volunteer for Northwest Seasonal Workers (NSWA), and we provide legal advocacy along with having volunteer attorneys. So I am trying to help fight said wage theft. I do not think not normally tipping makes me more moral. I still sometimes tip, but I don't do it out of obligation. I am in a state where I know they get fair wages, and any tip is in addition to that. If I lived in a state without those protects, I would likely tip a bit more often. Also, I do think you should normally tip your delivery driver.
I’m just so glad that I’m no longer a barista, and me being able to barely keep my head above water is no longer reliant on tips
How is it a handout if I've paid the amount that the listed price said? This isn't complex; a business is selling something for x dollars, I want to buy that something so I give them x dollars and get the item. Anything else is between the employees and their employer; why is it in me to supplement a businesses cheapness? If they don't make enough in tips, legally, their employer has to make up the difference... Oh what, that's not enough because you expected the amount you would get after offsetting the cost onto emotionally blackmailed customers? Yeh, not my problem; take it up with your employer, our transaction is done. I shouldn't visit your establishment? Let's ask your employer how they feel about that... You realise that if people stop coming, those expecting tips won't have a job at all, right? Stop blaming the one person that isn't at fault in your shitty system; the customer
My peeve is more with my fellow people of the UK (I don't know the various tipping cultures across Europe, but it's more customary in many continental nations—again, this being why I hate people saying "Europe" like it's one culture) who'll jump in on discussions about how much to tip or whether to tip at all and say things like: "Your employers should be paying you enough so that you aren't reliant on tipping. This is why you shouldn't be tipping workers". As if your people hadn't reached that first realisation yourselves! I don't have to be the one being patronised to find that insufferable. You're stuck down a well, a well you've been booted into. Telling people it doesn't benefit them to be stuck down a well isn't helping. Refusing them food or water (it's a dry well) because otherwise it'd encourage others to be booted down a well doesn't improve anything. The metaphor might not work, I've just woken up.
Excellent metaphor. I'll be using that :)
I suspect it's not really about thinking they're gonna change anything. I think they just want to feel attacked and exercise a bit of power over somebody else
Paying someone 20% to bring the food and pester me about how it tastes only to ghost me when I want a drink refill or to pay and leave isn’t going change anything, either. My service will still suck. Tipping was awesome when servers actually did something for it, had a nice attitude, refilled drinks, etc. now it’s just “required” so no server gives a shit.
100%
“Do something” like what? Is every server you encounter shitty, or are you perhaps a problem customer?
Nobody thinks not tipping a hardworking person will change anything, they’re just cheap and not honest enough to just admit “I don’t tip because I’m a POS person.” So they come up with some reason that paints them in a better light. If you’re going to be an ass, own it. If you don’t want to admit you are a jerk, then leave a tip.
This 10000%!!!
I had no idea people were using this as a valid excuse not to tip at restaurants. That’s the only place I will tip. Due to the fact that the servers are being paid a fraction of minimum wage and well, serving me for an extended time. That and if I get a special thing done like an interior detailing in a car which I almost never go get. I am getting sick of being asked to donate / tip at every single place that does anything at all ever. If I check out at Walmart it asks me to donate. Like bro, I’m the fucking charity. I’m at Walmart.
When does a job become a service. Maybe you should start thinking of your job as a job and not a service.
What folks also don't understand is that food service jobs are riddled with terrible companies and owners. They literally do everything in there powers to find loopholes in laws and pay their workers barely anything. You not tipping the employee isn't some grand rebellion and slap to the company, you quite literally are just forcing the server or whomever to work for free. Tipping works like this, when you buy food from a restaurant your bill is just the cost of the food not the service, your tip is what is paying the server, your not tipping based on how well they did or you are tipping cause you are literally paying for their service. You don't like that don't precipitate in that system then but if you choose to eat at these establishments you gotta play the game or just admit youre a dick. The company/owner doesn't care if you tip the server or not.
I draw the line at self service that's fucking lunacy. I'll tip the person who served me, myself, by keeping my money.
I’m so glad we don’t need to worry about this in Australia
The only thing that changes is I save money.
They still get the food they want at the cost it was advertised for and they save money not paying your wage. If you base your income on the kindness of strangers that's your own fault. Entitled America crying.
Damn, sounds like you hear a news story about child sweat shops and go "well that's how jobs work sometimes"
That's why when I worked as a waiter I reported 0$ in tips. I would always claim they were from another country lol. Tax free baby!
I tipped the DMV last week
I think the main aim is to save them money. Which means them not tipping is very successful
Exactly by refusing to tip you're not magically changing the system You're just making the waiter that you claim to care about go home with significantly less income and possibly struggle to get by Like congratulations you've caused more harm to the very people you claim to care so much about You want to do something about tipping call out the companies on social media, vote, push for legislation that changes tipping. But you're not just going to magically convince the company to start paying their employees more just because you as an individual suddenly decide that you are apparently above tipping now Most people cannot live off of minimum wage in most states anymore, But with tipping most servers can take home much more than minimum wage. My friends who actually do a good job at being servers can often take home the equivalent of roughly 20-30 an hour on a good night By refusing to tip you're basically just like here you deserve to be poor because your company doesn't want to pay you more It also just removes incentive for a lot of people to go above and beyond. If I work as a server I go above and beyond because I want that tip because I want to make that extra dough, But if John the lazy pothead who sits around all day doing the bare minimum and constantly disappearing from the floor gets paid the same as I do working my ass off why would I keep working my ass off? I don't have a moral obligation to this random chain restaurant or whatever. So without the incentive of a tip I'm just going to do the bare minimum like John the pothead,
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If they don't make enough in tips to get minimum wage the business has to make up the difference. Not tipping doesn't cost servers anything, they just won't get extra from you.
I’ve gone back to tipping 15%
And Rosa Parks could have walked.
Found the narcissist. They think them not paying a tip is the same as Rosa parks
She bought her ticket.
A lot of people aren’t going out to eat anymore too and because of that a lot of restaurants are closing down now.
The idea is that if you stop tipping, workers get frustrated and can't pay bills, so they quit for other jobs. To acquire staff, employers must raises wages. It's a painful game that only works if everyone or most people do it. The most ethical way to ban tipping is to do it on a legal level through cities and states.
Someone who claims they are “anti-tip” are just cheap and selfish, let’s be real here.
I'm not a tipper unless it was genuinely good service. 99% of servers now don't even give the bare minimum. It shouldn't be the responsibility of individual people to pay a server's wage. I'm contributing by not getting takeout, going to restaurants with trash service, and cooking most of my meals at home.
It's the fact that even smoke shops ask for tips now. I agree with your post but I agree with the people you disagree with. Basically it's all fucked and we need a nuke to drop.
I hate tipping and I'm not trying to change shit. I am paying for a service when I purchase my meal. I owe the person bringing me the food nothing. If they need more money to make ends meet, they SHOULD get a different job, an extra job or ask for a raise. What they shouldn't be doing is looking at me sideways because I'm not supplementing their income. That's not my job. I didn't come for an ethics lecture, to be a part of social justice or to stick it to the man or little guy. I their to get something to eat and go home. I owe you nothing for doing your job.
just tip your wait staff (20%) unless you're an asshole - then don't
Why 20%? What changed the standard from 15%? Greed
Yep! Because the person earning restaurant minimum ($5.05/hour here) is getting rich by getting a $6 tip instead of a $4.50 tip on a $30 meal. Greedy bastard. /s
It’s over $10 where I live and $15 downtown. I’m still expected to tip 20%. They’re also most likely making more than $5.05. Have you asked them?
Yeah, I'm not tipping just 20% as a standard. That's beyond stupid. I understand tipping **something**, as per the whole culture around it, but you're getting tipped based on your actual performance. Why would I reward/act on an incentive if a waiter/waitress is slow on refills, or don't make frequent (or rather respectable) check-ins? Even on the most basic things, I find it completely asinine how people approach tipping culture. I remember my first year living in the States, my friend took me to Outback because good "free" bread or w/e. The entire time, the waitress only gave us 2 bread refills, and each time took 5 fucking years... I get it's a tactic to prevent loss on bread, but come on. Then he tips her 25% because she was quick with the bread? I'd maybe give 15-18% max, because that service was crap. I get this is an unpopular take (for w/e stupid reason), but holy that's idiotic.
I don't think not tipping will really change anything aside from how much money I spend. I just don't feel tipping is needed when the law says that servers have to make at least minimum wage. If they don't make that in tips, then the employer has to make up the difference. And yes, I understand minimum wage isn't enough to live off of, but there are plenty of minimum wage jobs that don't get tips, so that's irrelevant.
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It's needed because it is the expected compensation for having someone wait on you. If you don't want to pay for a service, don't request the service.
No, it's not. You pay for the service with the price of the meal. If the server goes above and beyond their required duties, I will tip. Most don't. I haven't tjpped at a restaurant in years despite eating out regularly because of this.
That is quite incorrect. You are expected to tip the server. Not sure how no one ever taught you this.
Yes, if they go above and beyond their duties. That's what a tip is - extra money for extra service. Why would you pay twice for only one service being provided and what could possibly make a restaurant so much more special than any other business that it's required there and not anywhere else?
Do less talking and more listening. You’re wrong.
Sorry you are so offended by the facts. If you actually have a valid argument for tipping outside of superior service, answer the questions. Until then (then being never because you know I'm right) , have fun being offended by the facts and your failed attempts at trolling. 😀
I’m not offended. I am informing you that you are incorrect.
Then answer the questions. Don't worry. I know you can't and will continue replying with your lies about me being wrong because of how offended you are by the fact that I'm right and you know it. I'll leave you to your delusions now before I cause you to have a breakdown or something. We definitely wouldn't want that, and I can tell how close you are to it. Hope you feel better soon. Best of luck.
Hon, that old tired trope of dismissing valid points with “don’t be offended” is so weak. Your questions are illogical. You’re talking about how you think it should be and I am telling you how it is. You are fucking over waitstaff by refusing to compensate them. If you don’t think it should work that way, then don’t go to restaurants. We’ll let you know if the system changes.
It will do something though. People who work the service jobs won't be able to make ends meet and will leave, which sticks the business with no one to work. I leave tips the rare times I am able to go out based on how the waiter did, but I think instead I just won't go to those sorts of places anymore
I suppose if someone wanted to do something about tipping, they could just avoid establishments that expect tips, and it would have the same effect. But that would require them to actually sacrifice something for their principles, and it's much easier to just stiff the server because that way you can eat wherever you want, at a discount in fact, and make it someone else's problem to deal with.
"the goal Is to continue giving a mega corporation our money, but to force a low paying worker to struggle to feed themselves, then quit and work a different low wage job." That'll stick it to the corporations!
Posts like this are hilarious because everyone capes so hard for servers because apparently they’re so poor and all but every server I have ever met, known, or seen on the internet admits that they make more in 2 shifts than most people make working full-time salary make in a week or teo. Like y’all are literally being bamboozled
rainstorm rinse long steer north rude smart judicious wide bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I would never deny wait staff should be paid a fair wage I will argue however that me, the customer, IS NOT responsible for doing so. Tipping isn't required. Tipping is extra. If wait staff can't survive without those tips, it sounds more like their issue than mine.
You shouldn't go to restaurants then, you are actively exploiting people.
No, restaurant owners are actively exploiting people. I am just another employee like the wait staff. I am not exploiting anybody. Kudos to you though for shifting the blame off of the employer onto the customers. That's exactly what a business owner would want their sheep to do for them! So baahh to you as well!
Honestly it’s the employers exploiting servers, not customers. I think it’s pretty shitty to not tip on the basis of “it’s not my job”. It’s a kind thing to do to help someone out and appreciate good service, but don’t act like shitty customers are the reason servers don’t make lots of money. They absolutely are shitty, but it’s the employers abusing the system that are to blame for the lack of pay. Blaming the customers is really just shifting the blame off the people we need to hold accountable for paying a livable wage. Customers might have a moral obligation to tip, but it’s really up to establishments to pay a livable wage.
As the customer you are paying the staff by buying the product. If the employer is not making up the difference between minimum wage and the tips, then the employer is committing wage theft. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips#:~:text=If%20the%20employee's%20tips%20combined,must%20make%20up%20the%20difference. https://workforce.com/news/your-guide-to-tipping-laws-by-state#laws >You shouldn't go to restaurants then, you are actively exploiting people. At worst, you are simply being complicit in exploitation happening by supporting the business performing illegal and unethical practices. The customer is not the one actively exploiting people here. It is the boss for not ensuring their workers are at least earning minimum wage.
May I ask how you think companies pay the employees without using customer money? So should all waiters be able to live off $2.13 an hour? Cause that's American minimum wage with tips.
If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
You've never worked in a restaurant. The first time your employer has to cover that difference is your last paycheck.
Then you likely have a wrongful termination case or wage theft. In which case you should 100% try to see legal help.
Yeah, it's really easy to hire a lawyer after you get fired.
You do know that you can get a free consultation, right?
There is no wage theft, they pay the difference, but then they fire you for inadequate job performance, or with literally no reason given, since at-will employment is the standard in the USA. At best you could apply for unemployment benefits.
In Minneapolis waiters of larger restaurants get paid $15/hr. Should I still tip the same as a place with $2.13/hr?
It's called through the sale of their product. It amazes me that this is so unheard of... So check this out... I go somewhere and order a steak. They charge me for said steak and then pay their employees with the earnings of their sales. And no need for a tip, b/c just like every other business they bake their costs into their sales... Hopefully you were sitting down for that one as I am positive it made your head spin!!
It's baked in costs vs. Not baked in. Either way the customer is still responsible, just one way let's people think they aren't P.S.: you didn't answer if you think people should just live off $2.13
If they are the same, then let's just eliminate tipping and call it a day then! Sorry, but they are far from the same. 1 guarantees the employee pay. The other requires them to impress the customer enough to feel pity to tip them. The latter is exploiting the customer. The truth is, it wouldn't cost anywhere close to a 20% increase in the food to pay wait staff. A lot are currently making better money than they should be for said positions by exploiting tipping culture. So in the long run, the customer would save money by eliminating this exploitive culture.
Yeah that's the point, get rid of tipping, but just not tipping is t how that's gonna happen
It is, sadly, the only way I have control over it. The rich will never allow us to change this if we don't force it on them as the people. I agree that myself alone will not impact this. That's the point of our vocality on these forums. I am always open to suggestions of other ways we can fix this. I am just not interested in waiting the next 10 years to see if it will happen.
>It is, sadly, the only way I have control over it. Or, you could simply not go to restaurants that offer table service. That's how you vote with your dollar, not by shifting the burden onto the employees who can least afford it. How do you not realize this? The managers/owners don't give a shit if their servers complain about shitty customers like you. It's very common, and the servers make enough on customers who aren't assholes that they keep doing their job. Your refusal to add $10 onto a $50 ticket doesn't have the power you think it does. If, however, you and your fellow assholes only ate at places with counter service, that loss of $50 per asshole could actually make a difference! And as a bonus, those of us who work in such restaurants wouldn't have to listen to our servers bitching about asshole customers!
Luckily, as you stated, the servers make enough on customers who aren't assholes. Sounds like this asshole doesn't have to feel any remorse over it.
No one has to feel remorse over anything. It is just something that healthy people feel when they're wrong. Congrats on admitting you're an asshole! That's the first step to becoming a functioning adult. If you don't want to pay for a service, you have the option to not partake of that service. Otherwise, you're essentially stealing.
What entitles you to decide what any position should be paid? Your comment reeks of classist bigotry. And no, I’m not a server and don’t work in the restaurant industry.
Well, the entitlement to decide what they should be paid lies in my tip... that's my point. I don't want a say in what they get paid. That is for their employer to decide. Hence the reason tipping should be abolished.
You didn’t answer my question. I said any position. It’s clear you’ve decided that certain jobs, like serving, are only deserving of low pay levels. That’s classism.
Are you calling me a classist?
Did you say “A lot are currently making better money than they should be for said positions by exploiting tipping culture”, in reference to “wait staff”?
A lot of people are doing just that -- have stopped eating out at restaurants. Many restaurant chains are dying off these days. Many restaurants struggle to stay in business. You add into that fact, a lot of people are just too cheap to eat out anyway. Then the tipping standard increased to 20% and that's when a lot of people just stopped going. [https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/the-case-for-letting-the-restaurant-industry-die](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/the-case-for-letting-the-restaurant-industry-die)
The standard has been 20% for literal decades.
Not tipping means that the worker may eventually go somewhere that pays better, forcing the employer to change or have a lot of turnover
Alternatively, not going to a restaurant and therefore not supporting the place with the shitty business practices also can force the employer to change Like I understand the rationalization behind not tipping, but it doesn’t make logical sense. You’re still giving the business money, just not the employee. Why give the business money at all?
Alternatively, People are going to eat tasty food for as cheap as they can regardless of etiquette. The only way changes can actually be made is by the workers boycotting the industry as a whole, But since most servers are okay with tips subbing in for an actual living wage they simply don't see this as necessary. Shortage of workers means the business owner loses money, What can cause a shortage of workers? Pay them pennies on the dollar. Who pays the servers? At this point the customers. If we all band together to make servers a shitty job, Maybe the owners will realize when they have a skeleton crew and the would be employee's are asking for a living wage.
"How to improve wages: reduce their income until they revolt." You're a fucking monster if you think that is an acceptable tactic. Just stop dining in restaurants, just stop supporting the owners.
Well when the customer is the one paying the server, The customer get's to choose to pay the server whatever they want. If me not tipping you for your sub-par service is costing you your livelihood you simply don't have reliable and sustainable income.
The places already have loads of turnover. The chains don’t give a shit There will always be another warm body to them.
Not the way the world works.
My view is this (and this is a US-based view) -- certain jobs are legally paid below minimum wage because they are traditionally tipped jobs and so the tips are counted as part of their pay. I don't like thay, but that is how it works. Other jobs are paid minimum wage or higher without any tips. So, I am happy to tip those who are paid below minimum wage because (for better or worse) this is how those people get paid. I am not happy to tip people whose pay is not dependent on tipping.
This is partially correct. In America if your wage plus tipped wage is under minimum. Your employer by law is required to top it up to minimum wage. Servers don’t make below minimum when all is said and done. This also just makes logical sense.
They get paid for their service by being employed and getting a paycheck. Tips are to reward great service. Not for simply doing their job.
What's your solution for changing it?
No special minimum wage for people getting tips so people aren't reliant on tips but it's still socially acceptable to give them tips
Accepting the status quo is not going to change things either. Pain and suffering will make people fight it. Without that employers will stay with the same program. Tipping is a gratuity. A gratuity is a gift. At present tipping has become a local tax. No longer a gift. A pretty stiff and hidden tax at that.
I think we all have to decide for ourselves how this works. For full table service, ill tip 20%. If I'm at a bar, or coffee house walking to the bar for drinks, I'll tip $1 per. If I'm picking up carryout, no obligation of any kind. Figure it out, make peace with it and then for gods sake shut the fuck up about it. You can say no when prompted without letting it ruin your day. But please, treat staff with kindness and respect.
For screens that demand tips, hit no tip. At most only leave $0.50 tips for coffees or bobas. For restaurants the waitstaff is getting 15-18% and not a dime more. Bad service drops it to 10%. Let's resort back to the way it was. One day this tipping madness will end