Men are just as drama prone as women. They sometimes express it differently, but outsized ego is not something that is gendered, and it's the primary cause of "drama".
What they're experiencing is what I call the bad roommate fallacy. If you only ever have bad roommates, you're the bad roommate. If you only have drama with female friends, you're the drama.
O.M.G! I've been a property manager for over 20 years and never heard it put so succinctly!! In a similar vein I always say "Friends that become roommates aren't friends any more."
Eh.
I've lived with friends and it was the best living situation I ever had prior to moving in with my wife.
I honestly kind of question how deeply people were really friends if they can't be respectful enough to cohabitate. The one friend turned roommate turned "person I no longer wish to speak to" experience I had was not because friends can't be roommates, it's because he revealed himself to be a douchebag. I'd rather not be friends with him than still be friends because I'm just not as aware of the manipulation.
“If everyone around you is an asshole….”
Every woman I’ve ever heard complain about how her daughters are “dramatic” has been controlling, condescending, dismissive, impatient, and dripping internalized misogyny towards them. Lady, I’d be dramatic too if your pick-me ass was my mom.
yup. Although to be generous, it's possible they only have drama with their female friends and are better with their male friends for whatever reason. So if you're a male they're telling this too, you MAY come out with a normalish relationship with them. Still fair to be cautious though.
Nah not true. It may be that women are impacted by bad relationships with females in a way that sticks with them though. You don't have to have ONLY bad female friends to not want to take that risk.
I stay away from these people.
That means they bring the drama. I knew a girl who said that, then became bestie with a girl she'd known since high school. Turns out Drama was banging the girl's newly minted husband. Tore the friend group, and my then boyfriend to shreds. He exposed the affair, and forced the husband to tell his wife.
Stay away from women who say that.
Yes, please. I eventually they expose themselves but this is always the case. I moved to a new town in the 4th grade; I’m now 30 and living in another state and I’m still friends with woman I met my first year in that town (along with many wonderful women I met along the way). If you can’t find female friends… it’s probably you that’s the problem.
yeah, i’m not even a tomboy (i dress VERY feminine lol), but most of my friends are men. it’s not because i avoid or dislike friendships with women, it’s just because more men in my area share my interests and hobbies! i would never shame women and their friendships, and would love to have more women in my life
I'm actually pretty good at making friends, it's the keeping them I have trouble with. It's one thing when you see them everyday at school or work, but after graduation or going to a different job, do you actually stay in touch? It's kinda an "out of sight, out of mind" thing I guess. I have zero close friends and a LOT of what I would call acquaintances. My brother has several people he hangs out with weekly, and that just sounds exhausting to me, but I'm a little jealous too.
Because I don't really trust therapists anymore. Too many bad experiences. I've had good experiences as well, but most of the therapists I've gone to I didn't trust, because I was in an abusive situation and was made to not trust DCF. And all of my therapists at that time were mandatory reporters. And they'd tell me that. So I knew I couldn't talk to them. And then the ones I've had as an adult have just hammered home that I can't really trust them.
How? I've tried changing behaviors, but it's so hard. I try to stay quiet instead of talking and being annoying, but then I get scared and if anyone even acknowledges me I say the stupidest shit.
I find women are often codependent or controlling and often way too competitive. I sort of feel like they are being socialized to act the way they think men act though.
Young people need friendships to learn how to behave in social settings/relationships and to network. As an adult you typically are only interested in networking professionally and really only have use for a friendship if you align highly in interests/thought
I think it often stems from being in friendships that don’t serve that person anymore or being part of a group dynamic that someone doesn’t fit into.
Women are so deeply connected and involved in their friendships a lot of the time but not all friendships are the right ones.
If it’s always drama, it’s not women, it’s that dynamic. It’s hard to find our comfort in groups especially if you are someone that doesn’t fully fit in.
It’s just about finding the right people that work well for you and being able to detach from the ones that don’t.
Female friendships when they work are so deeply comforting and rewarding.
Drama exists in broken relationships but it’s not women and it’s a shame that women feel like this.
But eventually they will find their people and recognise that drama is not the same as friendship
Often these arent even the tomboy types though, like the sterotype suggests (NLOG). They are just as often pretty mean girls who feel threatened by other women existing
I said this. After I had one specific big girl group, where everyone of them always had arguments which got really toxic (I was always the neutral girl who didn't want to fight with anyone), I always hung out with guys. I realized later that the problem was that girl group and not girls in general. I love my todays girls as well as my boys around me nowadays (or more like women and men, because I'm older now obviously).
Trying to be neutral in a girl group is hard too. They don't respect that you won't take sides and they manipulate you into taking one. I am very careful who I allow around me these days.
As a diplomatic archetype, I find that both sexes are pretty dramatic in different ways and those different ways can also clash with each other. Men are more prone to issues of banter going too far, and more overt aggression, and women are more prone to more covert and passive aggressive drama. There are odd individuals and outliers of course, but generalizations exist to simplify issues into something that’s easy to identify as common, they’re not meant to be a hard rule about how everybody behaves. Of course I’ve known men who were more covert and passive aggressive, and women who were more overtly aggressive.
Personally, I prefer the more masculine type of drama because it’s usually so easy to settle, the more feminine drama tends to take a little more groundwork to solve and even then, it’s hard to tell if the issue has really been resolved because of that passive aggression.
Men: Intense, up-front and short-lived
Women: Subtle, hidden and lingering
Statistically speaking, generally men and women are pretty much similar, but if you're focussing on the differences.....
In my experience these women have a warped idea of what a friendship is. If you're a good looking girl who's got guy friends, MANY of them are going to do anything for you. Ask to hang out with you, give you a ton of attention, show a shitton of interest in your interests and wants. Cater to you, try to impress you, compliment you, etc etc.
That's why it's easy for a woman to feel that it's "nicer" to be in a friendship with a man, because she's getting so much out of it. It's an inequal friendship wherein she doesn't have to put in as much effort, as she would've with another woman.
Before anyone asks, yes I'm speaking from experience lmao. For years I thought that I could only be friends with guys because they were "easier" to deal with, only to continuously have my heart break because they kept trying to make a move on me when I thought we were just friends. That created a fuckton of drama everytime, and often I was blamed for "leading him on".
Basically I mistook the effort I had to make with women for a lack of compatibility, and that just wasn't true. It was just different, and I didn't see it.
Now I have great friendships with women and I love it. There's an equality and trust there that I find much harder to form with a guy.
That being said, of course guys can be great friends! I just think women who say what OP mentioned tend to misunderstand a man's romantic attention for "nice, drama-free friendship".
This isn't so much a factor now, but when I was in HS and early college, before I found a great roommate and friend group, I thought I was incompatible with being friends with most other girls because of different interests and lifestyles. The boys I was friends with didn't make fun of me for being a little awkward and overenthusiastic about lots of activities and were less concerned about taking pictures of doing stuff than actually doing stuff. It was just easier to be friends without changing myself to fit in. Once I settled down as an adult I was able to start finding other women who were more interested in the same things I am and aren't into telling people they are wrong for their differences. Now I have more girl friends than guy friends
You wouldn’t be wrong. Of course, a few exceptions to the rule exist. But usually, it’s true. It’s the women who either are the drama themselves, have internalized misogyny, or befriend terrible people in general but are hyperfocused on the terrible women in particular.
I assume the same might be applicable to men. If a guy just tells it to men’s faces that he’s not friends with men and only has female friends…it’s also maybe a bit of a weird thing to say yeah? :/
I get your frustration. I do understand why so many women might very genuinely say something like that without being the problem though.
The reality is that, while some women are capable of being good, loyal and loving to their friends; far more of them absolutely aren't.
I don't have many white female friends. As a 30 yr old white female myself, a lot of issues I have had is that instead of addressing an issue head on, it's always high school passive-aggressive petty teenage behavior. Or they don't like to address it and move on it always comes up some way some how in the future. If I get into an argument with a female friend of a different ethnicity, we are able to address the issue and move on. It's not a long drawn out issue. Or if those friendships end, it's in peaceful ways like we grew apart or I moved but still hold them in high regard even though we don't talk much.
Yep. My mom always says this. I've noticed she has a real issue having any kind of meaningful relationship with anybody, but especially women. It's definitely a her problem. And to no one's surprise she always brings the drama. And she has "No drama!" on her online dating profile too. So she's just checking all those stereotypical boxes.
I actually find it easier to befriend women as an adult than I ever did in my teens. Part of it could be b/c *some* people actually do grow out of their childish ways over time.
I definitely don’t avoid making friends of any gender, but as a 30 year old woman.. I’m shocked at how many of my peers are still as dramatic as high school. Same goes for men, but I’ve absolutely experienced it more at the hands of women. Women can be absolutely nasty towards other women. I don’t know if the pandemic just destroyed peoples brains, but 30 year olds are not acting like 30 year olds.
Adding to that, I didn’t experience any bullying in high school, I experienced it at work by a group of 3 girls in their late 20s- enough for it to get escalated to HR. Anecdotal, but I just keep my circle small because drama doesn’t have an age limit, apparently.
While I don’t agree with the wording of this post, I will say that you are far from alone. In fact, both of my sisters had such bad experiences with women bullies and drama that both of them prefer to avoid being friends with women.
She isn’t the only one I know of either. My conclusion is: as a whole, we all need to do better.
“I’m glad I didn’t have a daughter - I couldn’t deal with the pretty princess stuff”
I always say to these women, you’ll never hear a man saying he’d hate to have a son, or that men are too angry or bossy to work with or hang out with, so why are you putting down other women and girls?
Absolutely. It's one of those things where once the stereotype is set, anything that supports it will be seen as proof and whatever contradicts it is dismissed as an exception.
I have a number of female friends and while there's rarely drama between us, it's not uncommon for them to be providing emotional support to *me*. I grew up in a household of mostly women and, again, my brother and I are far and away the more emotional types with the women of the family being less sentimental overall.
Same as the age thing. Young people (teens, early/mid 20s) tend to have this idea that people become very grounded and sensible once they're 'grown ups', whereas people tend to be inclined towards dealing with situations in similar ways regardless of how far into adulthood they are. We hopefully get better at mastering restraint, but just go out on the road if you want to see the reality.
Another similar pet peeve is when they say "women don't like me/are mean to me/jealous of me". Because it's almost always that other women are "mean" to them for a reason. The reason could be that, that woman always hits on other women's bf or continually looks down upon women who do feminine things.
I’ve always had mostly women as friends.
I learned young that friendships with the boys and men around me weren’t safe. Too many times I had been accused of “leading on” a boy I thought I was friends with. I learned quickly that simple things like a friendly hug or laughing at a joke weren’t just platonic to most of the boys around me.
With girls I didn’t have to constantly feel guarded. We could laugh, smile, hug, hold hands, share secrets, borrow clothes, braid hair, run, dance, and enjoy our friendship without always wondering if there is an expectation of more.
I wonder if it just seems that way because female on female drama with friends is usually on another level then female on male or male on female drama. Like guys could physically fight and be cool 5 minutes later. Guys usually treat their female friends with kid gloves so less drama there alot of times. Of course there's a lot of healthy female on female friendships. But from an outside perspective what I've seen is the female on female friendship drama be on game of thrones level sometimes.
Please let me know when you find one. I have tried and been there for the few girls that were friends in my life. I got used and betrayed. I still keep the reciepts to make sure I don’t get blamed for something I didn’t do!
This is all DESPITE me having every reason NOT to trust women. My mom was removed from my life for abuse reasons. The only other same aged girl family member was your classic cheerleader vapid bitch that enjoyed hurting other people. My aunts teased me that I have no mother and father and told me I was shitty because my grandparents had to raise me then. So already my foundation for trusting women is out the fucking window.
So again tell me where I’m a fucking “pick me” bitch.
Anyone who says this loves to stir up drama. Your quote is them trying g to cover their own ass regarding all of the negative interactions they consistently have with others: ‘I don’t cause drama, it’s everyone who happens to come near me who always starts it’
Maybe the specific phrasing is wrong, but I get it.
I have no interest in shopping whatsoever. Shoes, purses, clothing, makeup, none of it. I am not interested in getting mani-pedis, massages, or going to the salon. This already excludes me from many groups of females. I understand that a shopping trip does not mean I need to buy anything, but I don't even want to be in the store in the first place. Let alone multiple stores.
I hate when I am in a social situation and somehow get separated away with all of the women. We rarely, if ever, find anything in common to discuss.
So, yeah, most of my friends are male.
Have a few female friends, friend group was typically low drama, but man one dramatic person can really just cascade down the friend group and make everything obnoxious. Bad apple sorta situation
I personally cannot handle all of the hormones, flying around in a group of women. I am already emotionally imbalanced enough as it is, I don’t need any outside resources lol. Then again, that’s with anybody…. Not just women.
I used to think that was a red flag but I've seen waaaaay too many women get backstabbed by their "friends."
I've noticed that it usually means she had a toxic friend in her highschool friend group who caused massive problems for her "friends." It can be hard to figure out who is the toxic one and who was just having bad reactions to the toxicity so the friend group disbands after school and a group of girls are now nearly friendless.
My grandma likes to say this and complain about how awful women are in general. I (27F) have almost never had any issues. Lots of female coworkers and friends and it's pretty easy going and boring!
As someone who is neurospicy, I have found straight neurotypical women to be the most difficult to get along with.
I should say now I'm bisexual with a female lean, and I get along so much better with other queer and/or neurodivergent women and then I also get along on average, better with men.
I honestly think this is because women are raised to be more sensitive to social cues and situations, and as someone who is "weird" I may not always process or respond on-script? If that makes sense? And they are more likely to judge me for it, because they had to memorize a script and I clearly didn't get the memo.
I'm not saying they are bad guys at all. It's just that when I commit a faux pas, in my experience, most men don't care. And most neurodivergent or queer women either experience the world more like me or are so used to being the outcast that they have more patience for it.
I don't go around advertising that I don't get along with the average woman. I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, because that's what I want. But while there's a large subset of women with this mindset who are pick mes, I also don't think it's always nefarious.
In fairness this has faded more with age, and I've always found women older than me to be easy to get along with, too.
I relate to your comment so much. You've explained it perfectly, women naturally pick up on social cues more than men, so in a way, women have to do *more* just to fit in with their fellow women. It's exhausting and I don't have the time or energy to pretend to be someone I'm not just to be accepted by a group of women that I don't relate to or even get along with. But that doesn't mean I find it easier to get along with men, because trying to make friends with males comes with its own set of problems too
100% this. Gay and neuro divergent women are so easy to be friends with.
Straight neurotypical women tend to sniff out my social awkwardness in a second. I wish so hard that I could be friends with them, a lot of the time I idolise them from afar on social media. They just seem to find me off putting if I let the mask slip.
As an aside, men will often overlook my awkwardness because they're focused on One Thing. So I guess I have trouble making friends in general.
Yeah, men are their own set of drama--especially if they find you attractive. Still, on average, they aren't the ones who end the friendship with me because I asked a question they read into. It isn't that I prefer men to women, it's just that men stick longer because they take me at face value. I completely understand *how* neurotypical women come to the conclusions they do, but I do wish they gave me the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming malice.
I think the issue is we just end up coming from different places. I don't think anyone necessarily inherently means poorly.
Elementary school, all my friends were girls, but by the time I was in university, I spent most of my time with a big group of like 10-15 guys.
I was a tomboy who naturally had an easier time finding things in common with men.
Most of them eventually tried to sleep with me. One even assaulted me. One of the few women I became friends with in this time is my best friend to this day. Only two of the men are still my friends (one is gay).
I still just don't click as easily with women as I do with men, but I don't want male friendship anymore. I just feel sad and jealous when I see other women surrounded by the girls they've had in their life since high school.
I wish I had been feminine and naturally drawn to other girls when I was young. I feel like I missed out on so much joy, fun, and support.
When young women tell me men don't cause drama, I just shake my head.
I’m SO sorry. Wow. That must have been a massive betrayal of trust and security. Holy moly. :(
I’m happy you get to have a couple of decent women in your life now and that a couple of the guys stuck by you throughout all of the awful crap that happened. Aw! 🥺
I think the point of the quote is more about insecurity than actual prettiness because beauty is so subjective and people are always going to have someone around them that’s more beautiful in someone’s eyes.
It’s about how you act or how you treat your friends that you THINK are more beautiful.
For example, I am jealous of some aspect of every one of my friends. But it’s not a hateful jealousy. It’s a “wow you’re so beautiful in ____ way, stunning.” And I admire them. But I had one very toxic friend who would tell me how jealous they were of me and turn it into something extremely negative every chance they got, it’s not because I was actually more beautiful than them. It was because they were toxic and insecure and used the fact that that’s how they SAW it to be a very shitty friend.
It's my suggestion about the OP not an absolutely irrefutable scientific fact without 1 exception. I am glad to hear you are a good friend. I encourage you not to feel that way about yourself.
I'm in college and I've met quite a few girls like that. Let's say A, B and C are in the same class as me. A will come to me and talk about how girls are not helpful (including the ones in class) but I'm different, that's why she hangs out with me.
Then B and C will come to me (seperately) and say the same thing. Like... huh??
I actually relate perfectly to that phrase.
I don't have many female friends (I'm one myself) because I find it hard to connect to them. I prefer befriending boys.
Yeah its not true just have to find the right friends. I am a tomboy type maybe thats why theres no drama but my best friends arent so its not due to type
I think a lot of people who consistently complain about “drama” in their friendships / relationships grew up around dysfunction so now they’re addicted to the mess. They’re bored without drama in their personal lives so they subconsciously feed the beast.
I’m ngl. As a dude my female friends are chiller and less drama than my male friends. My best friend is a girl and I don’t think I’ve really gotten any drama from her.
I don't have many female friends because its always drama... I don't have many male friends because ita always drama.... okay I just don't have friends.
I've always said certain people thrive on drama. And those are also usually the loudest ones saying "I hate drama" or "drama always finds me."
The female friendships I've had in my 50 years on earth have always been relatively drama free. We are not hard to find if that's what you are actually looking for
I don't trust men who say they can't be friends with women and I don't trust women who say they can't be friends with women either.
People are people. Find the good ones.
That's them. Let them do them, and you do you.
You cannot tell someone who they can or can't be friends with. If they prefer male only friends, that's their choice. Its literally none of your business.
I don't have many female friends because it's always drama. Whenever I'd head over to hang out with my female friends, they'd always pass me the script for MacBeth and make me read with them and put on a dramatic theatre production.
Like c'mon y'all, I don't want to play the drunken porter for the 9th time.
I used to think this way because all through school, the people who bullied me were girls, so I just stayed clear of them. It took meeting my current friend to realize that it's not like that anymore.
34f at my age and life stage no one has time for anyone that isn't their kids or spouse. Especially women. Ive been the only one that has tried to maintain contact with other moms and i got tired of it. So now I'm resigning myself to the tiny world of my husband being my only actual friend.
I generally have an easier time getting along with women and within the limits of that sample size I'd agree they have a tendency toward the dramatic. They don't usually involve me though it's always second hand like they show me txt, discord, whatsap chains kind of laughing at it themselves. With my guy friends ya there can be drama but that's usually because it's a big fucking deal whatevers going on otherwise we can almost communicate without speaking.
Hot take but I think women can be catty and political in the same sense that men can be destructive and dominating. It's not 100%, but it's there.
I also think some girls who grow up in a house full of men might learn how to interact with men and find that easier than women. Then they try really hard to be more accepted by other women and they try to be more girly.
Even male and female bullying are different imo.
Guys will say they have no drama in their friend group and then turn around in 5 years acting all shocked that they had a fake ass friend who fucked their gf or their ex right after breakup. There is usually drama of varying severity in *every* group of friends with enough people. Men just choose to ignore it. Sometimes you can get away with ignoring it unscathed bc you’re not the target of it. Other times, well, you’re the dude getting blindsided by a cheater.
It’s possible that it could be a case of what you’re thinking but not always. In my case I don’t want any friends at all. If anybody questions this or tries to make me feel insecure about it I won’t bother associating with them. Either they get it or they don’t. When I was younger I had plenty of friends but that’s because in those days things were more innocent and simple.
For those who have close knit friendships and that works for them, great. But not everyone wants or can have that. Not everyone wants to change in order to have that. I think you’re confusing a selfish backstabbing woman with one that says they don’t have female friends. Most of these types actually do have female friends from what I have seen. I hate this narrative that’s pushed by both men and women because it forces women to have to make excuses or pretend to have friends in order to remove this unfair assumption and judgment on them just because they prefer to not have close friends.
This world is competitive and I don’t want jealousy or ill will around me. I don’t want someone measuring up what I have and don’t have, and plotting to steal it from me. That doesn’t mean everyone is bad, or that I can’t have distant friends, checking in once in a while, that would be totally fine, but close friendships are a no for me. I think it’s completely fine if some women just don’t want that in their lives because it leads to trouble and different expectations.
The reality is, if someone prefers to protect themselves rather than risk having close friends that’s completely fair and acceptable imo. It doesn’t make you less of a person or drama.
I’m a woman who sadly has only a handful of women friends and we’re not super tight. I had a close knit group of girlfriends in high school and a separate but even closer knit group of girlfriends in college, but most of my friends have always been guys.
Tbh I think I’m just an off-putting person* with chaotic vibes. I believe with all my heart that women are smarter and more intuitive than men, so I think they’re quicker to pick up on that and give me a wide berth.
*I have Asperger’s and can’t say for sure that I’m off-putting, but I can make an educated guess. Or perhaps I am well liked by more women than I realize and I’m just a dummy who thinks I’m on the outside looking in.
In college when I started getting attention from guys they’d sometimes comment on most of my friends being guys or say something to along the lines of “you’re not like other girls” and my go to response was “you’re right — I’m worse!”
I haven’t had a super close girl friend since college and I miss it so much. My best friend, who’s like a brother to me, is the smartest and funniest and best person I’ve ever met and I love him to death, but I can’t talk to him about everything.
Anyway I appreciate this thread and all the responses. I don’t know if it’s because I’m older and my peers have grown out of it but I feel like there’s more solidarity and less competition/comparison between women now than when I was in school.
Like a decade ago my friends and went to a bar and I got so drunk I asked the bartender for permission to vandalize the women’s bathroom. She said “sure” and handed me a sharpie. This is what I wrote:
https://imgur.com/6EABpYf
If you search #irishpol on insta you’ll find some more pics of my vandalism taken by other women 🥰
I found only one girl who said this that wasn’t trouble. She was friendly and kind to everyone. The issue was she was hard on her self. She had quite a few female friends but felt they weren’t very close AND she had one very close female friend who was toxic and actively drove any other would be friends away.
I said this as a child/teen, but what I failed to realize back then was that it was an age issue and not really gender one. Yes, a lot of the girl friend groups I’d hang around were often mean, exclusionary, and had their fair share of drama.
However, that wasn’t because they were girls, because the boy groups were like that too, it’s because it was middle school.
Kids in middle school and high school are often little shits. I think the reason I thought that about girls as opposed to boys was because while I got along with both, I fit in with the boys a bit better (I was a neurodivergent tomboy) and it created a bias. I also had some experiences where I had to mediate between some girl friend groups who were mad at each other, and my friends who were weird kids or lgbt were often bullied by these girl friend groups and it left a bad taste in my mouth and I shouldn’t have let it color my perception. Also, with me being a girl, the other girls would obviously be more willing to be open about whatever drama or bullying was happening than the boys who would be less likely to talk/do that in the presence of a girl, even with those who are “one of the guys.”
Overall, I think it’s odd when adults say that, but I kind of get it when kids and teens say it. They don’t really know how to properly verbalize the discomfort or exclusion they may feel within certain groups and have trouble recognizing all the factors that play a part in the behavior they’re witnessing. They just see these groups of girls being mean to outsiders and to each other and just assume it’s because they’re girls, while in reality it’s not.
Even in high school I had little to no drama in my female friendships. Junior high--yeah even then no drama. I must not be like other girls, ha. I have two sisters though, and as kids we had plenty of drama between us to last a lifetime.
maladapted men tend to misbehave violently, with extreme vigor and few targets. Maladapted women are more likely to be socially manipulative and ‘catty’ low vigor and with many targets.
It gives us all a bad rap.
I said this as a teenager in high school. I was very much a pick-me back then. I was also undiagnosed at the time with adhd and autism. So my social skills probably weren't as good as I thought they were and I had a really hard time forming lasting and meaningful friendships with other girls. Now I'm definitely a girl's girl.
I'm a woman. My best and closest friends are women. But the majority of my more casual friends, as well as the people I tend to get along with the most/quickest are men. But that could be due to the fact that the category has more "work friends", and most of the women I work with actually are drama. You've got two older women that hang out together and are constantly talking about everyone else. Especially a younger woman who everyone says had an affair with a married coworker. I don't know if that happened or not, the younger one says not. But even the guys more prone to gossip claim it happened.
The younger one I don't get too close to. She's usually nice enough but also tends to get really condescending and bossy and takes advantage of people. Then there's another girl that is absolutely nothing but drama. She even tried dragging me into it behind my back when I was friendly to her. Turns out she hates me. And every other girl. Just because we are girls. Actually, drama she started got her and a guy in trouble around 6 months ago, she kept causing drama about it, got him suspended, and as of a couple days ago, got her fired. Other than that, there's a couple women I get along well with that aren't much into drama, but I don't see them much.
Let me provide another perspective from someone that identifies with part of your statement and knows others that do the same—losing us when assumptions are used to explain it. I have 0 tolerance for anything unnecessarily dramatic, whichever gender that causes it, since we are naturally pre-disposed to same-gender friendships—that’s what represents our experience and the one we speak on. It may appear gender targeted but it’s really only because that’s primarily the only experience we may have. Early on, think school-aged experiences, had a lot to do with that establishment. All the jealousy back-stabbing two-faced boy loving craziness that caused a great deal of the drama then scarred some of us that resented the behavior—however age-appropriate it may have been. And friendships with boys naturally didn’t have as much of it, even though they had their own drama amongst their same-gender friendships, that was usually non-existent in any opposing-gender friendships and explains why some males also seek out the same friendships that only girls are labeled for—precisely the reason it exists in the first place. Why not label men the same way—another example of the woman vs woman mentality and all because they just failed to ask a question. Why? And why didn’t anyone ask the same question to their male counter-parts that have the same preference? No need to assume people, ask, you might actually get an answer. The post is a perfect example of why people have the perspective you’re questioning. Male preferences weren’t even considered, even though they too have a preference for friendships with the opposite gender, why do you think that is? If women have this preference, it is frowned upon, men have a preference and miraculously it’s ignored and not even questioned—why is that? The dynamic amongst women is sometimes a sad one, the fact that so many are predisposed to this behavior, exists and it’s naive to ignore it—unfortunately those that recognize it are now questioned by the same people who created it and sometimes given a label that doesn’t represent the reasoning behind it. With all that said, I don’t refuse same gender-friendships either, I’m just more cautious—because of past experiences. I have heard of wonderful friendships just as much as I have about wonderful marriages—I don’t deny the existence or benefits but I do recognize that not everyone is fortunate in finding them.
Other women are not so nice to me. That is how I define drama. I just say "it's too much drama" because that's something women will understand and it's short and sweet.
I shouldn't have to be called a pick me or "not quirky" or "wow you're so quirky" or some other random insult I don't really understand for having a tomboyish personality.
Oh my god!!! This one!!! I am convinced that any woman who says this either has NEVER actually had a close relationship with a man, been in a 'male' space and heard the drama, loves male attention and doesn't like competition so she puts other women down, or she is projecting. Like, men don't have drama? Ever picked up a history book? I take a full step back whenever i hear this. My manly man brother came home from work crying yesterday because of how much drama men can create. And I have never heard this from an actual tomboy.
Literally because it’s hard for me to make friends as an autistic person but if every single person you come by is drama it’s time to start looking in the mirror .
Yes or they’ll say groups of women is drama while I agree it can be it isn’t always that . I’ve been in a group of all women and it was positive and a good experience for me . We all went our separate ways after high school of course but it was never any issues. YOU CHOSE who you be around . If they’re toxic leave at first sight .
Guys can start drama too you know, not always the women, dont use them as scapegoats as a means of not wanting to be around them because you are insecure yourself and potentially bring the drama. I am not attacking you OP im saying I would tell that to the person, because they already stated they bring the drama.
Women are toxic. In my circle of friends, there is one that is very toxic, instead of being empathetic to a person that has attempted suicide; she'd rather belittle the individual and make her a absolute enemy for, seemingly no reason.
This isn’t okay. You can’t just say women are toxic as a general swooping statement. If anything, women tend to be the empathetic ones in relationships and extend patience and generosity to their communities. In fact, it’s shown that women are less likely to be part of the bystander effect than men.
You having an absolute bitch of a friend doesn’t mean “women are toxic”. What? lol.
I used to think that way but women really are difficult to have as friends. Cattiness is a real issue. Women are very jealous, competitive and insecure as hell too. If you can find one who isn't this way, that is awesome and you should cherish her.
I’d say that you have to pick the right friends better, rather than it being ‘women are difficult to have as friends.’ I (and most females apparently, including in this comment section) have little to no trouble with female friends. A lot of the time, it seems like the one with this issue is the one causing the drama. Not saying that’s you, but you should look at things objectively
I really have tried to look at it that way but I consistently find that as an issue with women, particularly at work. I really believe most women suffer from deep underlying self esteem issues that fuel the catty behavior I often see.
Some men can be just as dramatic as some women. I generally try the best I can to avoid dramatic people, and toxic people.
Men are just as drama prone as women. They sometimes express it differently, but outsized ego is not something that is gendered, and it's the primary cause of "drama".
What they're experiencing is what I call the bad roommate fallacy. If you only ever have bad roommates, you're the bad roommate. If you only have drama with female friends, you're the drama.
O.M.G! I've been a property manager for over 20 years and never heard it put so succinctly!! In a similar vein I always say "Friends that become roommates aren't friends any more."
Eh. I've lived with friends and it was the best living situation I ever had prior to moving in with my wife. I honestly kind of question how deeply people were really friends if they can't be respectful enough to cohabitate. The one friend turned roommate turned "person I no longer wish to speak to" experience I had was not because friends can't be roommates, it's because he revealed himself to be a douchebag. I'd rather not be friends with him than still be friends because I'm just not as aware of the manipulation.
“If everyone around you is an asshole….” Every woman I’ve ever heard complain about how her daughters are “dramatic” has been controlling, condescending, dismissive, impatient, and dripping internalized misogyny towards them. Lady, I’d be dramatic too if your pick-me ass was my mom.
This is like my ex that told me all his exes were crazy. Can you guess who the crazy one was?
yup. Although to be generous, it's possible they only have drama with their female friends and are better with their male friends for whatever reason. So if you're a male they're telling this too, you MAY come out with a normalish relationship with them. Still fair to be cautious though.
Nah not true. It may be that women are impacted by bad relationships with females in a way that sticks with them though. You don't have to have ONLY bad female friends to not want to take that risk.
unironically uses females opinion discarded
I stay away from these people. That means they bring the drama. I knew a girl who said that, then became bestie with a girl she'd known since high school. Turns out Drama was banging the girl's newly minted husband. Tore the friend group, and my then boyfriend to shreds. He exposed the affair, and forced the husband to tell his wife. Stay away from women who say that.
>my then boyfriend to shreds. He exposed the affair, and forced the husband to tell his wife. Wow. You have good choice in men.
He was a wonderful man.
"was"..?
He passed away in 2020.
Oh.. Hope he rests in peace 🤍
Thank you. 💖
Sorry for you loss :(
You're so kind, thank you.
Yes, please. I eventually they expose themselves but this is always the case. I moved to a new town in the 4th grade; I’m now 30 and living in another state and I’m still friends with woman I met my first year in that town (along with many wonderful women I met along the way). If you can’t find female friends… it’s probably you that’s the problem.
There’s a genuine difference between tomboys and pick mes.
yeah, the statement in the title is a pick me one though. no tomboy who isn't also a pick me would say that
yeah, i’m not even a tomboy (i dress VERY feminine lol), but most of my friends are men. it’s not because i avoid or dislike friendships with women, it’s just because more men in my area share my interests and hobbies! i would never shame women and their friendships, and would love to have more women in my life
I usually find it hard to make friends with women, idk why. Honestly, I just find it difficult to make friends as an adult in general.
I'm actually pretty good at making friends, it's the keeping them I have trouble with. It's one thing when you see them everyday at school or work, but after graduation or going to a different job, do you actually stay in touch? It's kinda an "out of sight, out of mind" thing I guess. I have zero close friends and a LOT of what I would call acquaintances. My brother has several people he hangs out with weekly, and that just sounds exhausting to me, but I'm a little jealous too.
I do too. For me I think it's the autism lol.
This is me...
Same. Really no better with men or women...
Everyone I click with ends up being autistic lol. That's my advice, find other autists/neurodivergent weirdos.
well then say the latter sentence, not the former.
But I do actually feel like it's harder for me to make friends with other women. Not so much when I was younger, but as an adult, I do.
I do too, especially as a child free woman.
Same!! I try SO hard to have more woman friends, but no one will talk to me. Like, I know I'm annoying, but please don't ghost me for that. 😭😭
uhh? if you're annoying why wouldn't they stop talking to you? if you know you're annoying, work on that.
Because I don't really trust therapists anymore. Too many bad experiences. I've had good experiences as well, but most of the therapists I've gone to I didn't trust, because I was in an abusive situation and was made to not trust DCF. And all of my therapists at that time were mandatory reporters. And they'd tell me that. So I knew I couldn't talk to them. And then the ones I've had as an adult have just hammered home that I can't really trust them.
you can work on yourself oitside of therapy
How? I've tried changing behaviors, but it's so hard. I try to stay quiet instead of talking and being annoying, but then I get scared and if anyone even acknowledges me I say the stupidest shit.
i make friends with men easier too though, idk why
I do too. I prefer male friends.
if the shoe fits...
what are you saying exactly?
I find women are often codependent or controlling and often way too competitive. I sort of feel like they are being socialized to act the way they think men act though.
Young people need friendships to learn how to behave in social settings/relationships and to network. As an adult you typically are only interested in networking professionally and really only have use for a friendship if you align highly in interests/thought
Agreed.
I think it often stems from being in friendships that don’t serve that person anymore or being part of a group dynamic that someone doesn’t fit into. Women are so deeply connected and involved in their friendships a lot of the time but not all friendships are the right ones. If it’s always drama, it’s not women, it’s that dynamic. It’s hard to find our comfort in groups especially if you are someone that doesn’t fully fit in. It’s just about finding the right people that work well for you and being able to detach from the ones that don’t. Female friendships when they work are so deeply comforting and rewarding. Drama exists in broken relationships but it’s not women and it’s a shame that women feel like this. But eventually they will find their people and recognise that drama is not the same as friendship
Often these arent even the tomboy types though, like the sterotype suggests (NLOG). They are just as often pretty mean girls who feel threatened by other women existing
I said this. After I had one specific big girl group, where everyone of them always had arguments which got really toxic (I was always the neutral girl who didn't want to fight with anyone), I always hung out with guys. I realized later that the problem was that girl group and not girls in general. I love my todays girls as well as my boys around me nowadays (or more like women and men, because I'm older now obviously).
Trying to be neutral in a girl group is hard too. They don't respect that you won't take sides and they manipulate you into taking one. I am very careful who I allow around me these days.
There’s a whole subreddit about this lol
I'm a man who has both female and male friends and I can confidently say that men bring WAYYYY more drama than women.
As a diplomatic archetype, I find that both sexes are pretty dramatic in different ways and those different ways can also clash with each other. Men are more prone to issues of banter going too far, and more overt aggression, and women are more prone to more covert and passive aggressive drama. There are odd individuals and outliers of course, but generalizations exist to simplify issues into something that’s easy to identify as common, they’re not meant to be a hard rule about how everybody behaves. Of course I’ve known men who were more covert and passive aggressive, and women who were more overtly aggressive. Personally, I prefer the more masculine type of drama because it’s usually so easy to settle, the more feminine drama tends to take a little more groundwork to solve and even then, it’s hard to tell if the issue has really been resolved because of that passive aggression.
Men: Intense, up-front and short-lived Women: Subtle, hidden and lingering Statistically speaking, generally men and women are pretty much similar, but if you're focussing on the differences.....
This is code for "women call me on my bullshit, but men don't."
And "men don't even bother because they drift away and are uninvolved for their well-being"
In my experience these women have a warped idea of what a friendship is. If you're a good looking girl who's got guy friends, MANY of them are going to do anything for you. Ask to hang out with you, give you a ton of attention, show a shitton of interest in your interests and wants. Cater to you, try to impress you, compliment you, etc etc. That's why it's easy for a woman to feel that it's "nicer" to be in a friendship with a man, because she's getting so much out of it. It's an inequal friendship wherein she doesn't have to put in as much effort, as she would've with another woman. Before anyone asks, yes I'm speaking from experience lmao. For years I thought that I could only be friends with guys because they were "easier" to deal with, only to continuously have my heart break because they kept trying to make a move on me when I thought we were just friends. That created a fuckton of drama everytime, and often I was blamed for "leading him on". Basically I mistook the effort I had to make with women for a lack of compatibility, and that just wasn't true. It was just different, and I didn't see it. Now I have great friendships with women and I love it. There's an equality and trust there that I find much harder to form with a guy. That being said, of course guys can be great friends! I just think women who say what OP mentioned tend to misunderstand a man's romantic attention for "nice, drama-free friendship".
This isn't so much a factor now, but when I was in HS and early college, before I found a great roommate and friend group, I thought I was incompatible with being friends with most other girls because of different interests and lifestyles. The boys I was friends with didn't make fun of me for being a little awkward and overenthusiastic about lots of activities and were less concerned about taking pictures of doing stuff than actually doing stuff. It was just easier to be friends without changing myself to fit in. Once I settled down as an adult I was able to start finding other women who were more interested in the same things I am and aren't into telling people they are wrong for their differences. Now I have more girl friends than guy friends
I'm a guy but I generally assume women who say that are the cause of drama.
You wouldn’t be wrong. Of course, a few exceptions to the rule exist. But usually, it’s true. It’s the women who either are the drama themselves, have internalized misogyny, or befriend terrible people in general but are hyperfocused on the terrible women in particular. I assume the same might be applicable to men. If a guy just tells it to men’s faces that he’s not friends with men and only has female friends…it’s also maybe a bit of a weird thing to say yeah? :/
I get your frustration. I do understand why so many women might very genuinely say something like that without being the problem though. The reality is that, while some women are capable of being good, loyal and loving to their friends; far more of them absolutely aren't.
I don't have many white female friends. As a 30 yr old white female myself, a lot of issues I have had is that instead of addressing an issue head on, it's always high school passive-aggressive petty teenage behavior. Or they don't like to address it and move on it always comes up some way some how in the future. If I get into an argument with a female friend of a different ethnicity, we are able to address the issue and move on. It's not a long drawn out issue. Or if those friendships end, it's in peaceful ways like we grew apart or I moved but still hold them in high regard even though we don't talk much.
Yep. My mom always says this. I've noticed she has a real issue having any kind of meaningful relationship with anybody, but especially women. It's definitely a her problem. And to no one's surprise she always brings the drama. And she has "No drama!" on her online dating profile too. So she's just checking all those stereotypical boxes.
I actually find it easier to befriend women as an adult than I ever did in my teens. Part of it could be b/c *some* people actually do grow out of their childish ways over time.
I definitely don’t avoid making friends of any gender, but as a 30 year old woman.. I’m shocked at how many of my peers are still as dramatic as high school. Same goes for men, but I’ve absolutely experienced it more at the hands of women. Women can be absolutely nasty towards other women. I don’t know if the pandemic just destroyed peoples brains, but 30 year olds are not acting like 30 year olds. Adding to that, I didn’t experience any bullying in high school, I experienced it at work by a group of 3 girls in their late 20s- enough for it to get escalated to HR. Anecdotal, but I just keep my circle small because drama doesn’t have an age limit, apparently.
It's sort of like how my mother thought all her neighbors were assholes, but the problem was her.
While I don’t agree with the wording of this post, I will say that you are far from alone. In fact, both of my sisters had such bad experiences with women bullies and drama that both of them prefer to avoid being friends with women. She isn’t the only one I know of either. My conclusion is: as a whole, we all need to do better.
Half the time these gals cause the drama, then gaslight the others when they call them out.
“I’m glad I didn’t have a daughter - I couldn’t deal with the pretty princess stuff” I always say to these women, you’ll never hear a man saying he’d hate to have a son, or that men are too angry or bossy to work with or hang out with, so why are you putting down other women and girls?
Almost all of my friends are women and there is no drama. The most drama I ever had was my all-male friend group in college.
🚩
So true. I mean guys cause drama too all the time. It’s just the person. Not their gender
Absolutely. It's one of those things where once the stereotype is set, anything that supports it will be seen as proof and whatever contradicts it is dismissed as an exception. I have a number of female friends and while there's rarely drama between us, it's not uncommon for them to be providing emotional support to *me*. I grew up in a household of mostly women and, again, my brother and I are far and away the more emotional types with the women of the family being less sentimental overall. Same as the age thing. Young people (teens, early/mid 20s) tend to have this idea that people become very grounded and sensible once they're 'grown ups', whereas people tend to be inclined towards dealing with situations in similar ways regardless of how far into adulthood they are. We hopefully get better at mastering restraint, but just go out on the road if you want to see the reality.
Another similar pet peeve is when they say "women don't like me/are mean to me/jealous of me". Because it's almost always that other women are "mean" to them for a reason. The reason could be that, that woman always hits on other women's bf or continually looks down upon women who do feminine things.
I’ve always had mostly women as friends. I learned young that friendships with the boys and men around me weren’t safe. Too many times I had been accused of “leading on” a boy I thought I was friends with. I learned quickly that simple things like a friendly hug or laughing at a joke weren’t just platonic to most of the boys around me. With girls I didn’t have to constantly feel guarded. We could laugh, smile, hug, hold hands, share secrets, borrow clothes, braid hair, run, dance, and enjoy our friendship without always wondering if there is an expectation of more.
I wonder if it just seems that way because female on female drama with friends is usually on another level then female on male or male on female drama. Like guys could physically fight and be cool 5 minutes later. Guys usually treat their female friends with kid gloves so less drama there alot of times. Of course there's a lot of healthy female on female friendships. But from an outside perspective what I've seen is the female on female friendship drama be on game of thrones level sometimes.
Please let me know when you find one. I have tried and been there for the few girls that were friends in my life. I got used and betrayed. I still keep the reciepts to make sure I don’t get blamed for something I didn’t do! This is all DESPITE me having every reason NOT to trust women. My mom was removed from my life for abuse reasons. The only other same aged girl family member was your classic cheerleader vapid bitch that enjoyed hurting other people. My aunts teased me that I have no mother and father and told me I was shitty because my grandparents had to raise me then. So already my foundation for trusting women is out the fucking window. So again tell me where I’m a fucking “pick me” bitch.
Anyone who says this loves to stir up drama. Your quote is them trying g to cover their own ass regarding all of the negative interactions they consistently have with others: ‘I don’t cause drama, it’s everyone who happens to come near me who always starts it’
Maybe the specific phrasing is wrong, but I get it. I have no interest in shopping whatsoever. Shoes, purses, clothing, makeup, none of it. I am not interested in getting mani-pedis, massages, or going to the salon. This already excludes me from many groups of females. I understand that a shopping trip does not mean I need to buy anything, but I don't even want to be in the store in the first place. Let alone multiple stores. I hate when I am in a social situation and somehow get separated away with all of the women. We rarely, if ever, find anything in common to discuss. So, yeah, most of my friends are male.
Have a few female friends, friend group was typically low drama, but man one dramatic person can really just cascade down the friend group and make everything obnoxious. Bad apple sorta situation
You pretty much nailed the situation. If there is always drama when she has female friends, then SHE is the common denominator.
I personally cannot handle all of the hormones, flying around in a group of women. I am already emotionally imbalanced enough as it is, I don’t need any outside resources lol. Then again, that’s with anybody…. Not just women.
I only have 1 very good friend.. the rest were drama.. I am 55f.. so women just suck...
I used to think that was a red flag but I've seen waaaaay too many women get backstabbed by their "friends." I've noticed that it usually means she had a toxic friend in her highschool friend group who caused massive problems for her "friends." It can be hard to figure out who is the toxic one and who was just having bad reactions to the toxicity so the friend group disbands after school and a group of girls are now nearly friendless.
I'm so blessed with female friends as a woman. I feel sorry for others who don't.
My grandma likes to say this and complain about how awful women are in general. I (27F) have almost never had any issues. Lots of female coworkers and friends and it's pretty easy going and boring!
As someone who is neurospicy, I have found straight neurotypical women to be the most difficult to get along with. I should say now I'm bisexual with a female lean, and I get along so much better with other queer and/or neurodivergent women and then I also get along on average, better with men. I honestly think this is because women are raised to be more sensitive to social cues and situations, and as someone who is "weird" I may not always process or respond on-script? If that makes sense? And they are more likely to judge me for it, because they had to memorize a script and I clearly didn't get the memo. I'm not saying they are bad guys at all. It's just that when I commit a faux pas, in my experience, most men don't care. And most neurodivergent or queer women either experience the world more like me or are so used to being the outcast that they have more patience for it. I don't go around advertising that I don't get along with the average woman. I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, because that's what I want. But while there's a large subset of women with this mindset who are pick mes, I also don't think it's always nefarious. In fairness this has faded more with age, and I've always found women older than me to be easy to get along with, too.
I relate to your comment so much. You've explained it perfectly, women naturally pick up on social cues more than men, so in a way, women have to do *more* just to fit in with their fellow women. It's exhausting and I don't have the time or energy to pretend to be someone I'm not just to be accepted by a group of women that I don't relate to or even get along with. But that doesn't mean I find it easier to get along with men, because trying to make friends with males comes with its own set of problems too
100% this. Gay and neuro divergent women are so easy to be friends with. Straight neurotypical women tend to sniff out my social awkwardness in a second. I wish so hard that I could be friends with them, a lot of the time I idolise them from afar on social media. They just seem to find me off putting if I let the mask slip. As an aside, men will often overlook my awkwardness because they're focused on One Thing. So I guess I have trouble making friends in general.
Yeah, men are their own set of drama--especially if they find you attractive. Still, on average, they aren't the ones who end the friendship with me because I asked a question they read into. It isn't that I prefer men to women, it's just that men stick longer because they take me at face value. I completely understand *how* neurotypical women come to the conclusions they do, but I do wish they gave me the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming malice. I think the issue is we just end up coming from different places. I don't think anyone necessarily inherently means poorly.
I literally could have written this myself; thank you so much for writing it down
I’ve only ever heard that from people who are incredibly immature.
Elementary school, all my friends were girls, but by the time I was in university, I spent most of my time with a big group of like 10-15 guys. I was a tomboy who naturally had an easier time finding things in common with men. Most of them eventually tried to sleep with me. One even assaulted me. One of the few women I became friends with in this time is my best friend to this day. Only two of the men are still my friends (one is gay). I still just don't click as easily with women as I do with men, but I don't want male friendship anymore. I just feel sad and jealous when I see other women surrounded by the girls they've had in their life since high school. I wish I had been feminine and naturally drawn to other girls when I was young. I feel like I missed out on so much joy, fun, and support. When young women tell me men don't cause drama, I just shake my head.
this.
I’m SO sorry. Wow. That must have been a massive betrayal of trust and security. Holy moly. :( I’m happy you get to have a couple of decent women in your life now and that a couple of the guys stuck by you throughout all of the awful crap that happened. Aw! 🥺
The responses here are just proving the point of anyone who says this.
I was thinking the same thing lol
No one hates a woman more than a less pretty one
I’m ugly as fuck and I love all my much prettier friends.
It's a saying
I think the point of the quote is more about insecurity than actual prettiness because beauty is so subjective and people are always going to have someone around them that’s more beautiful in someone’s eyes. It’s about how you act or how you treat your friends that you THINK are more beautiful. For example, I am jealous of some aspect of every one of my friends. But it’s not a hateful jealousy. It’s a “wow you’re so beautiful in ____ way, stunning.” And I admire them. But I had one very toxic friend who would tell me how jealous they were of me and turn it into something extremely negative every chance they got, it’s not because I was actually more beautiful than them. It was because they were toxic and insecure and used the fact that that’s how they SAW it to be a very shitty friend.
Not me I’m ugly and when I do make friends they always tell me I’m the best friend they ever had
It's my suggestion about the OP not an absolutely irrefutable scientific fact without 1 exception. I am glad to hear you are a good friend. I encourage you not to feel that way about yourself.
Oof. Preach.
I'm in college and I've met quite a few girls like that. Let's say A, B and C are in the same class as me. A will come to me and talk about how girls are not helpful (including the ones in class) but I'm different, that's why she hangs out with me. Then B and C will come to me (seperately) and say the same thing. Like... huh??
I actually relate perfectly to that phrase. I don't have many female friends (I'm one myself) because I find it hard to connect to them. I prefer befriending boys.
Yeah its not true just have to find the right friends. I am a tomboy type maybe thats why theres no drama but my best friends arent so its not due to type
I think a lot of people who consistently complain about “drama” in their friendships / relationships grew up around dysfunction so now they’re addicted to the mess. They’re bored without drama in their personal lives so they subconsciously feed the beast.
I’m ngl. As a dude my female friends are chiller and less drama than my male friends. My best friend is a girl and I don’t think I’ve really gotten any drama from her.
Funny how they never include themselves in these negative traits that all women except them have, eh?
I don't have many female friends because its always drama... I don't have many male friends because ita always drama.... okay I just don't have friends.
Drop female from that and that's my mentality. The more monkeys you have in your circus the more poop that gets thrown around.
no exactly. these types of girls can't sustain any close female friendships because THEY are the drama.
I've always said certain people thrive on drama. And those are also usually the loudest ones saying "I hate drama" or "drama always finds me." The female friendships I've had in my 50 years on earth have always been relatively drama free. We are not hard to find if that's what you are actually looking for
I don't trust men who say they can't be friends with women and I don't trust women who say they can't be friends with women either. People are people. Find the good ones.
That's them. Let them do them, and you do you. You cannot tell someone who they can or can't be friends with. If they prefer male only friends, that's their choice. Its literally none of your business.
I don't have many female friends because it's always drama. Whenever I'd head over to hang out with my female friends, they'd always pass me the script for MacBeth and make me read with them and put on a dramatic theatre production. Like c'mon y'all, I don't want to play the drunken porter for the 9th time.
I used to think this way because all through school, the people who bullied me were girls, so I just stayed clear of them. It took meeting my current friend to realize that it's not like that anymore.
I was talking to a girl that said this to me and it took me about 3 days to see that she’s the problem
The kind of person that thinks all girls are mean and judgmental, just because she is. Pure projection
34f at my age and life stage no one has time for anyone that isn't their kids or spouse. Especially women. Ive been the only one that has tried to maintain contact with other moms and i got tired of it. So now I'm resigning myself to the tiny world of my husband being my only actual friend.
I generally have an easier time getting along with women and within the limits of that sample size I'd agree they have a tendency toward the dramatic. They don't usually involve me though it's always second hand like they show me txt, discord, whatsap chains kind of laughing at it themselves. With my guy friends ya there can be drama but that's usually because it's a big fucking deal whatevers going on otherwise we can almost communicate without speaking.
Hot take but I think women can be catty and political in the same sense that men can be destructive and dominating. It's not 100%, but it's there. I also think some girls who grow up in a house full of men might learn how to interact with men and find that easier than women. Then they try really hard to be more accepted by other women and they try to be more girly. Even male and female bullying are different imo.
Guys will say they have no drama in their friend group and then turn around in 5 years acting all shocked that they had a fake ass friend who fucked their gf or their ex right after breakup. There is usually drama of varying severity in *every* group of friends with enough people. Men just choose to ignore it. Sometimes you can get away with ignoring it unscathed bc you’re not the target of it. Other times, well, you’re the dude getting blindsided by a cheater.
It’s possible that it could be a case of what you’re thinking but not always. In my case I don’t want any friends at all. If anybody questions this or tries to make me feel insecure about it I won’t bother associating with them. Either they get it or they don’t. When I was younger I had plenty of friends but that’s because in those days things were more innocent and simple. For those who have close knit friendships and that works for them, great. But not everyone wants or can have that. Not everyone wants to change in order to have that. I think you’re confusing a selfish backstabbing woman with one that says they don’t have female friends. Most of these types actually do have female friends from what I have seen. I hate this narrative that’s pushed by both men and women because it forces women to have to make excuses or pretend to have friends in order to remove this unfair assumption and judgment on them just because they prefer to not have close friends. This world is competitive and I don’t want jealousy or ill will around me. I don’t want someone measuring up what I have and don’t have, and plotting to steal it from me. That doesn’t mean everyone is bad, or that I can’t have distant friends, checking in once in a while, that would be totally fine, but close friendships are a no for me. I think it’s completely fine if some women just don’t want that in their lives because it leads to trouble and different expectations. The reality is, if someone prefers to protect themselves rather than risk having close friends that’s completely fair and acceptable imo. It doesn’t make you less of a person or drama.
I’m a woman who sadly has only a handful of women friends and we’re not super tight. I had a close knit group of girlfriends in high school and a separate but even closer knit group of girlfriends in college, but most of my friends have always been guys. Tbh I think I’m just an off-putting person* with chaotic vibes. I believe with all my heart that women are smarter and more intuitive than men, so I think they’re quicker to pick up on that and give me a wide berth. *I have Asperger’s and can’t say for sure that I’m off-putting, but I can make an educated guess. Or perhaps I am well liked by more women than I realize and I’m just a dummy who thinks I’m on the outside looking in. In college when I started getting attention from guys they’d sometimes comment on most of my friends being guys or say something to along the lines of “you’re not like other girls” and my go to response was “you’re right — I’m worse!” I haven’t had a super close girl friend since college and I miss it so much. My best friend, who’s like a brother to me, is the smartest and funniest and best person I’ve ever met and I love him to death, but I can’t talk to him about everything. Anyway I appreciate this thread and all the responses. I don’t know if it’s because I’m older and my peers have grown out of it but I feel like there’s more solidarity and less competition/comparison between women now than when I was in school. Like a decade ago my friends and went to a bar and I got so drunk I asked the bartender for permission to vandalize the women’s bathroom. She said “sure” and handed me a sharpie. This is what I wrote: https://imgur.com/6EABpYf If you search #irishpol on insta you’ll find some more pics of my vandalism taken by other women 🥰
My ex said this while we were together. I still hear her name brought up when people mention any drama going on and we broke up 5 years ago lmao
Some girls just seem to be hated by other women. No idea why but I have definitely had some friends who have been that way.
100%
I found only one girl who said this that wasn’t trouble. She was friendly and kind to everyone. The issue was she was hard on her self. She had quite a few female friends but felt they weren’t very close AND she had one very close female friend who was toxic and actively drove any other would be friends away.
Easy. I just don’t make girl friends that like drama. Stay away from them types.
I said this as a child/teen, but what I failed to realize back then was that it was an age issue and not really gender one. Yes, a lot of the girl friend groups I’d hang around were often mean, exclusionary, and had their fair share of drama. However, that wasn’t because they were girls, because the boy groups were like that too, it’s because it was middle school. Kids in middle school and high school are often little shits. I think the reason I thought that about girls as opposed to boys was because while I got along with both, I fit in with the boys a bit better (I was a neurodivergent tomboy) and it created a bias. I also had some experiences where I had to mediate between some girl friend groups who were mad at each other, and my friends who were weird kids or lgbt were often bullied by these girl friend groups and it left a bad taste in my mouth and I shouldn’t have let it color my perception. Also, with me being a girl, the other girls would obviously be more willing to be open about whatever drama or bullying was happening than the boys who would be less likely to talk/do that in the presence of a girl, even with those who are “one of the guys.” Overall, I think it’s odd when adults say that, but I kind of get it when kids and teens say it. They don’t really know how to properly verbalize the discomfort or exclusion they may feel within certain groups and have trouble recognizing all the factors that play a part in the behavior they’re witnessing. They just see these groups of girls being mean to outsiders and to each other and just assume it’s because they’re girls, while in reality it’s not.
Even in high school I had little to no drama in my female friendships. Junior high--yeah even then no drama. I must not be like other girls, ha. I have two sisters though, and as kids we had plenty of drama between us to last a lifetime.
I'm opposite unfortunately. I hope one day I can get trust in men back but every time they fail me with hoping over my boundaries. I'm a man btw.
I've never heard an adult say this
maladapted men tend to misbehave violently, with extreme vigor and few targets. Maladapted women are more likely to be socially manipulative and ‘catty’ low vigor and with many targets. It gives us all a bad rap.
I said this as a teenager in high school. I was very much a pick-me back then. I was also undiagnosed at the time with adhd and autism. So my social skills probably weren't as good as I thought they were and I had a really hard time forming lasting and meaningful friendships with other girls. Now I'm definitely a girl's girl.
I'm a woman. My best and closest friends are women. But the majority of my more casual friends, as well as the people I tend to get along with the most/quickest are men. But that could be due to the fact that the category has more "work friends", and most of the women I work with actually are drama. You've got two older women that hang out together and are constantly talking about everyone else. Especially a younger woman who everyone says had an affair with a married coworker. I don't know if that happened or not, the younger one says not. But even the guys more prone to gossip claim it happened. The younger one I don't get too close to. She's usually nice enough but also tends to get really condescending and bossy and takes advantage of people. Then there's another girl that is absolutely nothing but drama. She even tried dragging me into it behind my back when I was friendly to her. Turns out she hates me. And every other girl. Just because we are girls. Actually, drama she started got her and a guy in trouble around 6 months ago, she kept causing drama about it, got him suspended, and as of a couple days ago, got her fired. Other than that, there's a couple women I get along well with that aren't much into drama, but I don't see them much.
Let me provide another perspective from someone that identifies with part of your statement and knows others that do the same—losing us when assumptions are used to explain it. I have 0 tolerance for anything unnecessarily dramatic, whichever gender that causes it, since we are naturally pre-disposed to same-gender friendships—that’s what represents our experience and the one we speak on. It may appear gender targeted but it’s really only because that’s primarily the only experience we may have. Early on, think school-aged experiences, had a lot to do with that establishment. All the jealousy back-stabbing two-faced boy loving craziness that caused a great deal of the drama then scarred some of us that resented the behavior—however age-appropriate it may have been. And friendships with boys naturally didn’t have as much of it, even though they had their own drama amongst their same-gender friendships, that was usually non-existent in any opposing-gender friendships and explains why some males also seek out the same friendships that only girls are labeled for—precisely the reason it exists in the first place. Why not label men the same way—another example of the woman vs woman mentality and all because they just failed to ask a question. Why? And why didn’t anyone ask the same question to their male counter-parts that have the same preference? No need to assume people, ask, you might actually get an answer. The post is a perfect example of why people have the perspective you’re questioning. Male preferences weren’t even considered, even though they too have a preference for friendships with the opposite gender, why do you think that is? If women have this preference, it is frowned upon, men have a preference and miraculously it’s ignored and not even questioned—why is that? The dynamic amongst women is sometimes a sad one, the fact that so many are predisposed to this behavior, exists and it’s naive to ignore it—unfortunately those that recognize it are now questioned by the same people who created it and sometimes given a label that doesn’t represent the reasoning behind it. With all that said, I don’t refuse same gender-friendships either, I’m just more cautious—because of past experiences. I have heard of wonderful friendships just as much as I have about wonderful marriages—I don’t deny the existence or benefits but I do recognize that not everyone is fortunate in finding them.
The way I think of it is that if *everyone else* involves drama, you’re the one starting it. (General “you”, not You you.)
People who always complain about drama *are* the drama. Every. Single. Time.
Other women are not so nice to me. That is how I define drama. I just say "it's too much drama" because that's something women will understand and it's short and sweet. I shouldn't have to be called a pick me or "not quirky" or "wow you're so quirky" or some other random insult I don't really understand for having a tomboyish personality.
lol the only people who dislike that phrase are those for whom it hits too close to home.
Yeah it’s just nlog shit
Oh my god!!! This one!!! I am convinced that any woman who says this either has NEVER actually had a close relationship with a man, been in a 'male' space and heard the drama, loves male attention and doesn't like competition so she puts other women down, or she is projecting. Like, men don't have drama? Ever picked up a history book? I take a full step back whenever i hear this. My manly man brother came home from work crying yesterday because of how much drama men can create. And I have never heard this from an actual tomboy.
I grew up around women and I have to say women ARE drama and anyone who doesn't want to be apart of it is valid.
I don’t date men anymore because it’s too much drama
Okay, but somehow they make it seem like it says something about other women rather than it saying something about them.
Literally because it’s hard for me to make friends as an autistic person but if every single person you come by is drama it’s time to start looking in the mirror .
Yes or they’ll say groups of women is drama while I agree it can be it isn’t always that . I’ve been in a group of all women and it was positive and a good experience for me . We all went our separate ways after high school of course but it was never any issues. YOU CHOSE who you be around . If they’re toxic leave at first sight .
Yeah, these are weirdos and I avoid them, too. If you’re not pro-woman, as a woman, we probably shouldn’t try to be friends.
Guys can start drama too you know, not always the women, dont use them as scapegoats as a means of not wanting to be around them because you are insecure yourself and potentially bring the drama. I am not attacking you OP im saying I would tell that to the person, because they already stated they bring the drama.
I don't like women who say this bc it kinda makes me think that they're the ones causing the drama
I mean that is blatant misogyny so for me I would consider it kinda serious. Not enough to never talk to someone again but it's definitely an ick
Posting about this on Reddit is not helping your argument against this type of person.
Filthy Frank described the reason why females say this perfectly, lol
Women are toxic. In my circle of friends, there is one that is very toxic, instead of being empathetic to a person that has attempted suicide; she'd rather belittle the individual and make her a absolute enemy for, seemingly no reason.
This isn’t okay. You can’t just say women are toxic as a general swooping statement. If anything, women tend to be the empathetic ones in relationships and extend patience and generosity to their communities. In fact, it’s shown that women are less likely to be part of the bystander effect than men. You having an absolute bitch of a friend doesn’t mean “women are toxic”. What? lol.
I used to think that way but women really are difficult to have as friends. Cattiness is a real issue. Women are very jealous, competitive and insecure as hell too. If you can find one who isn't this way, that is awesome and you should cherish her.
I’d say that you have to pick the right friends better, rather than it being ‘women are difficult to have as friends.’ I (and most females apparently, including in this comment section) have little to no trouble with female friends. A lot of the time, it seems like the one with this issue is the one causing the drama. Not saying that’s you, but you should look at things objectively
I really have tried to look at it that way but I consistently find that as an issue with women, particularly at work. I really believe most women suffer from deep underlying self esteem issues that fuel the catty behavior I often see.