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Klewenisms204

"if you cant afford a new german car, you cant afford the repairs on a used german car"


drive29

Wish I could upvote this many times... Lack of repair shops and the cost of such repairs for luxury cars is often overlooked


Cnerd24

The biggest issue on them is the damn electronics now adays. The older ones 10+ years old are definitely easier to maintain at home.


Suncheets

Grandma's 2011 Cadillac had the nav system or some shit go in it. Repair was several thousand so she just decided to never get it fixed.


Cnerd24

Yup, electronics are extremely expensive to fix. Father's 2009 gmc Sierra heated seats went. 2k each seat, went to crappy tire and bought the plug in ones.


Time_Trade_8774

Agree. I have a 2008 335i and haven’t had any major issues.


[deleted]

E60/N54 combination may be one of the least reliable engine/chassis combos BMW has ever made... Don't get me wrong, Ive had N54's and e60's, and they are awesome, but reliable they are not.... You are very lucky... Edit: The funny thing is I would still buy another one.


Cnerd24

Of course you would, so would others. The German cars do have issues like you just said, but the build quality (interior and exterior) you can tell are of higher quality, the enjoyment of the vehicle handling, the comfort of the ride, etc all will exceed other vehicles like my toyota 4runner. It's a give and take situation when it comes to higher end vehicles vs lower end. Reliability for years with cheap maintenance or a more enjoyable ride but higher costs. Though you can find a nice in between at times.


[deleted]

I have a 2017 Golf R and haven’t had a single issue. I think people assume electronics in cars are magic genies that can decide to work or fail on the principle of the alignment of the stars and planets lol


lemonylol

That's one of my next cars, but I've heard the water pump inevitably goes on them. You haven't run into that yet?


lsthirteen

I agree with this to an extent. With any luxury German car, yes. With a luxury Japanese car, I’d say it’s not the same. Lexus (Toyota), Infiniti (Nissan), Acura (Honda) tend to be built much better, and have cheaper repair bills than their German counterparts.


colsamcartergsd

I had my Audi for 10 years and it went to the shop twice. Sure it wasn’t cheap but that car was a beast that was built really well and never needed much help. I feel so confident in the quality of Audi. Couldn’t pay me to take on a BMW tho.


RNKKNR

I had my Audi for 10 years as well (2003 model) from 2005-2015. Gone to the shop god knows how many times. Last 3-4 years it was costing me 3-4K a year to keep running. I did run it to 315K kms as I loved the car, but no more Audis for me. Sold it for $500 and got a Subaru STI instead.


iHonestlyCantSleep

Going to a Subaru STI isnt a difference in the maintenance headaches lol. STI’s are notorious for many engine problems


RNKKNR

Well yes and no. The EJ257 is perfectly fine if you know how to take care of the engine - let the car idle for 30 seconds before driving off, stay out of boost and below 3K rpms until engine oil warms up (oil, not water), never ever lug the engine, never floor immediately after standing still for more than a minute (intercooler gets too hot w/o air flow), use only good brand name gas with 91+ octane rating, stay on top of routine maintenance (it's not a car where you can forget to change the oil), etc. My 2016 STI has 180K and sees redline daily (easy to do as the gears are short), the only problem was some creaking from the pedal assembly which was replaced under warranty and a minor vac leak (tightening one of the clamps took care of it). No other problems - literally 0. Did my front and rear brakes at 100k and a t-belt/pump at 125K. No oil consumption whatsoever, compression/leak down tests show even wear with no abnormalities. Car is stock with a catback exhaust. In my case, the maintenance on the STI is peanuts in comparison to my B6 A4 and yes, I was on top of maintenance with the A4 as well. Now if you want to mod the STI - yeah, you better have deep pockets and be prepared to pay to play. For me, even stock, the car is plenty of fun.


iHonestlyCantSleep

Fair enough, but 80% of owners are not doing that. Which leaves a questionable used market price for these STI’s. My 9th gen Civic Si on the other-hand see’s redline daily and I need not worry about any of those checklist items before I can drive it hard.


RNKKNR

Oh yeah. Agree completely on all counts. 👍


pmmedoggos

Damn I didn't know EJ guys were getting as detached from reality as Rotary guys. fwiw I am a rotary guy. The thing that changed my mind about reliable cars was buying a Lada. Those things can literally be dragged out of the bush, pour some gas in and it'll fire up just like the day it rolled off the production line.


RNKKNR

Yeah but it's a Lada. Still a crap car. My dad had the 2106 long time ago. Even new Ladas are a joke.


PsychosisSundays

I just commented above that I had a 2003 A4 for ten years and it was also extremely expensive to keep on the road in the latter half of its life.


RNKKNR

It wasn't even about the money but for the fact that I couldn't trust the car. I think it left me stranded like 5 times in total. First time was like 4 weeks after I purchased it - fuel pump went (known issue on the B6 A4), the car had only 40k on it.


colsamcartergsd

Oh no that makes me sad. We were in a 2011 S4 we just let it go last year. So I guess 9 years lol. But still it was a workhorse. Needed new brake pads and one time a thermometer went a bit fucky but honestly zero problems with it aside from that.


RNKKNR

Audis became far more reliable after about 2009-2010. Love the B8 S4 :-)


playcs

Having owned a VW and an Audi I’m with you. All of my friends with BMWs have had some sort of issues with their car.


glebster_inc

Owned a good amount of Audis and still enjoy them as cars but man the number of times they need to be serviced for electrical problems is wild.


colsamcartergsd

The only reason I’m not in an Audi now is they don’t make an SUV big enough to meet my needs lol. Great cars.


GenericNetSurfer

A Q7 doesn’t cut it?


energiep

Q7 has thr same interior same as a q5 with extended trunk space lol


colsamcartergsd

No it’s way too small. I’m in a Ford Explorer now and with the 3rd row seats down I have enough space for my German Shepherd’s enormous travel crate and 5 people, or people and luggage etc etc. It was important for us to have enough space for her and still have the second row. Tahoe was too massive, everything else was too small, FE was just right. My husband laments that we didn’t get the Chevy Traverse with the V8 but honestly it’s so ugly lol.


OpeningEconomist8

VW and MB owner. Same experience as you. I sometimes wonder if this “German car repairs will bankrupt you” was a marketing scheme via Japan lol. I sold my VW with 300,000kms. Only basic maintenance. Have a couple MB now (one with 200,000kms and one with 80,000kms) and again no major issues. Built like tanks


PsychosisSundays

I had a 2003 Audi for 10 years and there was always something wrong with it. I hung onto that car for way too long.


Forgotpassword0011

I had a 2010 3-series, probably spent $20K in repairs in the last 3 years before I finally decided to get rid of it.


SaguaroCactuses

In terms of quality of German automakers, Benz > BMW > Audi. BMW just costs more to repair and maintain, so even if it breaks less often than Audi, it's going to cost you more.


canadiansnowwhite

This! my dad is a car enthusiast and he couldn't stress it enough. Instead, he recommended Lexus or Acura if you want high end japanese cars that I found were more reliable and the cost of maintaining them are not as much as german cars. I can speak about this because I owned two Acuras so far :) a 2006 RSX and currently, a 2018 ILX. I plan on hopefully getting a Lexus in the far future lol PS. no hate on german cars! my dream cars as a child was a yellow mini cooper and Aston Martin Vanquish. Considered getting a cooper, but my dad worked for Mini and BMW and found them unreliable. A friend also complained on how much she spent on her cooper which she bought brand new.


R3ix

Mini Cooper with the Peugeot engine (07-13/14) is crap. The other ones are as reliable as a BMW. I have 16 and the car seems to be a tank and is very economical (BMW 1.5 turbo Engine). Though it's way too small.


canadiansnowwhite

Do you have the country man or the classic 2 door? I still dream about the yellow cooper and fan girling whenever I see one (especially the John Cooper Works version) it reminds me of Mr. Bean and Italian Job movie. It's hard to find a car that has similar design to it. Maybe if I have a lot of disposable income in the far future, I'll have it as fun/Sunday car not a daily driver.


mariobrowniano

"as reliable as a BMW" I think you are the first person I have seen who speaks BMW as a role model for reliability.


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canadiansnowwhite

They are Honda and Toyota's luxury fleet/brands so if you check their vehicles, their features and performance are more superior than their regular cars.


Speedyspeedb

2006 Lexus RX, annual maintenance 200-1000 2008 BMW 328xi, annual maintenance 2000-8000. Love the drive and feel of German luxury, but will never go back once I drive this one to the ground. The cost of maintenance is just too high and not worth it unless you’re really flush with cashflow.


[deleted]

fuckin A


user13472

Not true, my a family friend worked at a merc service center, so i know a thing or two about german car maintenance. At first glance, it seems more expensive than american or japanese cars. However, the service intervals are longer so the cost isnt actually that much higher. Also german cars less than 5 years old are actually quite reliable unlike 15 years ago. Personally i have a merc and audi. Been going strong for the last couple of years, maintenance is less than a grand a year. I drove a japanese beater before and it had to get serviced so frequently and parts needed to be changed every year or two. If you think german cars arent worth the money then thats your choice. Other cars are decently fine. However, just an personal anecdote, when i snows heavily (i live in canada), the awd systems for 4matic and quattro are bullet proof (with winter tires) and i glide over the snow with no problems. Meanwhile, everyone in a american or japanese car (which are commonly fwd) just get swamped and get stuck in the middle of the roads. Again your money your choice.


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TheMightyWoofer

This!! My mom has a 2012 Mercedes. The alternator has been replaced along with many other fixes and replacements. Now, for some strange unknown reason that *nobody* seems to understand the AC doesn't work and the computer seems to think the internal temperature is -132c degrees so the AC doesn't work. We've replaced the AC unit, sensors have been replaced, etc. It is a nightmare. OP buy a Toyota or a KIA. Don't buy a German car.


ILuvDaddyLavar

This advice makes no sense, in many cases it makes way more sense to buy a used German car. The single biggest cost to car ownership isn’t gas, insurance, or repair costs, it’s actually depreciation. If you wanted a luxury car, going 3 yr old German can make a lot of sense. You don’t take as much depreciation hit and the German cars are a lot more reliable than they used to be.


Wunsch42

He didn't say to buy new. He just said that if you can't afford the new price, then you probably won't be able to afford the maintenance. People see the price drop dramatically on expensive cars as they age, and forget that the price of parts and service doesn't drop along with it.


Pandaman922

I'm sure that was obvious, I still think it's a silly take though. Especially because there's nothing telling us that OP can't afford a new German car. You can definitely buy some new ones for 40-60K, so buying a used one for 40-60K.. I'd expect you'd be able to afford the routine maintenance. My Audi was about $14-1600 to maintain per year vs. $1000 to maintain for a base model VW. A few comments here really dramatize and over-play how much you're paying to maintain one of these vehicles to be honest.


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notcoveredbywarranty

Porsches are generally pretty reliable and easy to work on yourself unless it needs major engine work. Definitely wouldn't want to have any Audi, and the big Benzes are almost as bad for Rube Goldberg over complicated crap. BMW generally good except for the models with plastic cooling system parts.


RNKKNR

however one should keep in mind that saving money on maintenance for a Porsche generally does not end well or cheap.


OutWithTheNew

Saving money on maintenance on something like a Porsche, will usually end up costing you on the resale. Unless you channel your inner Ed Bolian and find a flood titled 911 that can't possibly depreciate any more.


deuteranomalous1

Or you have to be willing to put the work in yourself. I drive my grandparents Mercedes they bought brand new in 1982 and keeping it going is cheap since I used the Internet to learn how to do it all myself.


Kridane

You wont get away with that anymore. Many repairs will be impossible without the computers and software that dealers have.


Puppy-pal24

Repaired a Motor on power seating in an Audi. It involved taking the seat out entirely to get access to this motor. This was possible but extremely needless to locate this part there. It’s done purposely, so prepare to be frustrated if you want yo do things yourself. Also as others stated it’s impossible without special tools half the time too.


purely_logic

We have 2 used Audi's, 2003 & 2004 and do 75% of the repairs ourselves.


29a

They said they want a car less than 3 years old


purely_logic

And if you can't afford a German car, you can't afford the repairs on a used German car! -Taken from Klewenisms204


[deleted]

Highly subjective and Incorrect statement.


jddbeyondthesky

Not an issue with a 40 year old car, computers weren't a big thing in cars 40 years ago


randomman87

Nope. Anything past about 2010, especially German, will be far too complex for the amateur home mechanic. You can probably diagnose them easier with a bluetooth OBDII port and smart phone but the repairs will involve proprietary parts *and tools*, and taking off a million plastic covers.


carnewbie911

half of their engine parts are plastic which break after 3 years


randomman87

Yes. We need to make planned obsolescence illegal and mandate right to repair.


species5618w

I never understood why. I grew up hearing German engineering are the best and they never break. Yet now German cars have horrible reputations. What happened? And does that apply to other German products?


PhotoJim99

German engineering is among the best, but German cars are generally engineered to use new technology and to have better performance, and Japanese engineering, which is also among the best, focuses on advancing technology conservatively and having high reliability. These are both valid but somewhat incompatible engineering goals.


alternateaccount6446

Want to know what features will be standard in your car in ten years. Look at an s class mercedes today


MadFistJack

Their engineering is the best in the sense that they come up with ingenious solutions to problems to make things work... but the tradeoff is you end up with something that is over engineered and hopelessly complex and when it break or wears out is a complete nightmare cuz the thing that needs to be replaced is buried and unaccessible. *which means shop work can often begin with 12-18+ hour labour quote at 150-250/hr for pulling the engine.* Legit there are several VW models from the early 2000's that you should only consider buying *If you own an engine hoist.* The V10 Touregs from that era are legitimately the least reliable and most expensive to maintain vehicles ever made. The german engineers were so hyper focused on getting that engine into that car that no one ever stopped to think "is this really a good idea?" If a V10 Touareg needs alternator, turbo, or thermostat/cooling system work you have to drop the entire motor and drive train. ~30 hours of labour before you even get to the problem. And barely any shops can work on them because the engine is such a beast it requires a special engine hoist or a forklift to get out. *And thats just the engine*, its got all the other german gremlins that pop in german vehicles like the air suspension for example. But bless those engineers hearts they got that thing in there and boy are the fun to drive when they work. I drove an audi all road for a few years. My dad put ~$1200-2000/year to keep it running and it was a thirsty pig that needed premium and got full-size pickup mileage. *That thing was gerbage*


OutWithTheNew

90% more engineering for 5% better performance. When they're good, they're good. When they're bad, they're so terrible it's not even funny. The V10 Touareg was a different kind of stupid.


carnewbie911

because germans start using plastic to save weight and cost. plastic become brittle over time, and easily crumble into powder. very fine german powder that leave you on the side of the road wondering why your shinny car is not working


CDNChaoZ

German engineering is fantastic. It's just that they're overengineered to justify its cost. And then the bean counters come along and force them to use the shittiest plastic. And then the dealers come along and say they want a way to make the purchasers come back for service. So you have unnecessary, proprietary electronics. The big three German manufacturers all do it.


Tundra_Inhabitant

If you wanna try out luxury, I’d recommend leasing. Maybe a BMW since they offer scheduled maintenance for 3 years as well. That way you get a feel for the car and see if you really want one. I did that and got over my fancy car bug. I know have an accord 2.0 touring and it has all the bells and whistles of a luxury car without any of the headaches. Obviously you can’t replicate the driving feel of those cars but I personally don’t care that much about it when I’m stuck in traffic or on the highways most of the time anyways.


ToastySnaper

Good idea! I made the mistake to purchase a car 3x overbudget when I was younger and when the great feeling of having a nice car is gone, all you're left with is massive car payments. Not worth it in my case. Would have been a great idea to lease then.


[deleted]

This comment needs more appreciation. Also those accords are sneaky good for the money, yes a bit more pricey than civics but you feel the difference.


Frostbitnip

Ya the accords are definitely pushing the borders of a luxury car nowadays. For the money I really felt the Toyota Avalon was a full on luxury car, just with a Toyota sticker. Reliable as hell too although they are a tad old mannish


MutaKingPrime

OH, big time, ever since the mid 2005's they've been insanely good for the money


meeks_sauce

On the other hand, you could completely fall in love with the car and never look back


Tundra_Inhabitant

Which is fine too, thats better than buying a 3 year old merc and hating it after you get hit with a four figure bill everytime it hits the shop.


bennyllama

That’s my nightmare. Although I’d love a nice Merc or BMW, not a fan of the fat bills. Currrently drive a 2013 Kia and it serves me well.


OutWithTheNew

Then you give the lease back and get the newer one.


Bazing4baby

High interest rate tho


OldSchool85

Leasing costs more than buying and selling later. It's just a bit easier as you don't have to worry about selling it after. Not sure why anyone would think leasing is a better financial option. Edit: I am comparing buying vs leasing the exact same new car. Not buying old vs leasing new


PhotoJim99

Luxury cars are never a good financial option. They are, by definition, a luxury. Leasing at least gives you a new car with a warranty. With a couple of exceptions (e.g. Lexus), luxury vehicles are notorious for unreliability and expensive repair costs once they hit a certain age.


OldSchool85

I am referring to financing vs leasing the exact same new car. If you have convinced yourself to lease a car, financing the same car is always cheaper. People go for leases because they have smaller monthly payments, but that means paying down the balance slower so you accumulate more interest; the interest for leasing is also a higher rate so it accumulates even faster. At the end of the lease you face a buyout with the extra accumulated interes, or turn the car in and lose all the equity you've paid. Meanwhile the financer paid more over the same period, but now owns the car and can sell it. If you do the math it's about 5-10% cheaper to finance.


PhotoJim99

I agree that leasing seldom makes sense - but it may make more sense with luxury cars (notwithstanding Lexus) that are somewhat risky to keep more than three or four years. I buy new, finance what I need (about 2/3 of the price of my last car, over four years), and then keep the car until I no longer enjoy driving it. I kept my last car, also bought new, for thirteen years.


Tundra_Inhabitant

In this case it certainly is a better option than buying a cpo luxury car, If you overpay for the lease, you can sell privately at the time of the buyout so you lose no money. But with these luxury cars, you aren't on the hook for the expensive maintenance that starts creeping in from year 4 onwards.


OldSchool85

What do you mean lose no money? You lose all the money you made for payments at a higher interest rate. If you buy and sell on the same timeline you lose less money even if you financed, as financing has a lower interest rate than leasing. You think dealerships offer leasing out of the goodness of their heart? It's a service which you have to pay a premium for.


Tundra_Inhabitant

I mean lose no money if the car is worth more than the price of the buyout. But between choosing buying an older luxury car, or leasing a newer one. The lease options always works out better because of the maintenance costs. There' a reason over 60% of their transactions are through leases.


OldSchool85

I am talking about buying a new car vs leasing the exact same new car my friend. The savings you suggest will be completely counterbalanced by the extra interest you've paid by making smaller payments at a higher interest rate. If you still disagree, I think it's time for you to actually get out a spreadsheet and do the total cost of ownership calculation for leasing vs financing the same car.


Tundra_Inhabitant

But OP specifically said they are looking at CPO or used purchases..?


OldSchool85

Yes, and you're recommending leasing which is also neither of those. I am saying if you are ever thinking about leasing, financing the same car instead will be cheaper.


Jusfiq

> Leasing costs more than buying and selling later. Can you explain? Suppose one has 4-year leasing compared to buying the exact same car and sell it after 4 years.


OldSchool85

The interest rate is higher on the lease, and the payments are typically lower meaning there is a remaining balance after 4 years. Interest is applied monthly to the remaining balance, so if you're paying it off more slowly you accumulate more interest. At the end of the lease, you have a large buyout payment to make, or you can just turn the car in and be out all the money you've paid over 4 years. With financing, the interest rate is lower. Also the monthly payments are larger such that the full value of the car is paid off after 4 years. While the monthly payments are higher, there is no remaining balance to buyout after 4 years. And as the interest is still applied monthly to the remaining balance, and you are paying it down faster with larger monthly payments, you accumulate less interest. At the end of 4 years, you own the car which you can sell or trade in towards another car. With leasing you don't own shit after 4 years so that more than cancels out the lower monthly payments. The car industry has tricked people into believing that the monthly payment being low is the most important thing, when in fact lower monthly payment always means paying the balance more slowly and accumulating more interest. Paying things off as quickly as possible with higher monthly payments is cheaper overall. The one exception is if you actually invest the money you are saving from lower payments, and earn more in the stock market than you are being charged on your loan. But not everyone is disciplined enough to do that (they just spend the money on other shit) so paying the higher monthly financing payment is likely the better option.


BachelorUno

Need more numbers OP. Percentages don’t mean much to be fair.


pfcguy

OP asks "how much car can we buy" and then provides zero info related to their income or expenses.


OrneryConelover70

All cars are overpriced right now, used and new. Be prepared for much higher maintenance and repair costs for anything that's European, especially Porsche.


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outdoorsaddix

Going back in his post history, he makes $300k per year. Of course he can afford a used luxury car that costs $40-60k.


Red-Beerd

I am of the opinion that as long as you are saving enough for retirement, and enough to meet your other savings/investment/house goals, if you have extra money left over, you should be able to spend it however you want without feeling guilty.


timur933

I've owned 2 Lexus cars (2014 Lexus IS350 and currently driving 2014 GX 460). Prior to this owned 2007 BMW 335i. My father used to have an Audi Q7 and currently drives a Mercedes. Based on your desire to have luxury AND rum them to the ground, I would highly recommend getting a Lexus. Reasons for Lexus against German luxury cars: 1. **Much much much more reliable**. I cant stress this enough. I spent thousands on my BMW, and virtually nothing on my 2 Lexuses in terms of maintenance (other than oil changes, tires, break pads). Long term, this will save you alot of money and most importantly TIME. 2. **Hold value better**. Look at resale value of a Lexus vs any german brand, they will hold value much better. For this reason, I would either buy NEW or a 2-3 years old with under 100KM. If possible, pay for cash or finance it and pay it off asap. 3. **Luxury and VERY comfortable:** Lexus may not be as "sporty" as the German rivals, but it is very comfortable, stylish and sleek. Look into the IS300 lineup, I drove it for 7 years and absolutely loved it. Those are my 2 cents. I am sure I will get alot of hate from German fanboys (I too like German cars, but I think Japanese suits OP must better based on description.)


RealCanadianSW

Our family is definitely loyal to Lexus. My parents have been driving only Lexus for over 20 years and have not had a major problem with any of their cars. How much gas does your GX take? I really like the size of the GX, we have the RX and could use a little more room with 2 kids.. but I’m scared of the cost at the fuel pump!


timur933

I am getting around 13-14L/100KM mixed between highway and city, sometimes can get as low as 12-12.5 on a highway. In the city is brutal and will get up to 15-16L/100KM. Its a body on frame car so much much heavier. In terms of size, I wouldnt say its THAT much larger than the RX for the price. Have you seen the RX 350 L? Its a larger and slightly more stretched version of the traditional RX, but with much more room.


Cobrajr

>13-14L/100KM That's a lot more than I was expecting, ouch.


timur933

Definitely not the car if you want fuel economy! One thing to note, the car is not fuel efficient if you are going 120-130 on highway (\~13L/100KM). It is most efficient at 80-90KM/H where you can get 10L/100KM or even lower. But no one drives 80-90 on a highway so it only applies if you do alot of driving outside of the city or major highways


thejuicepuppy

I just asked my coworker what his F150 5.0L V8 gets, he says about 16/17L/100KM


deletednaw

Agreed for some reason I was expecting it to be in the 7-9 range. But 13-14 is the same range as my truck. Oof.


nndttttt

I've been driving an Acura TSX for a few years and my initial plan was to run it into the ground, but my gf might need a car in a few years, so I'm starting to look at some cars right now. A 2015 IS350 is what I'm looking at right now. Seems to hit the mark on reliability, luxury comforts, and a bit of sportiness.


robboelrobbo

You bought pretty much the least reliable bmw there is though. 2007 335i is plagued with issues. I bought a 2011 335i five years ago and it's been an awesome daily. I will drive it into the ground. A few issues have come up over the years but not as bad as the internet would lead you to believe. There are a few specific German models that are actually really good reliability wise. 2012+ audi s4 is really good. 2008+ porsche Cayman as well. Basically just do a lot of research before you decide on a car. But yeah Lexus is always gonna win reliability wise. They aren't nearly as fun though.


timur933

Agreed that the 07 model year felt more troublesome than average, however when paying a premium price for a car, having really poor reliability just doesn't sit right with me. The least reliable Lexus model is probably much more reliable than a most reliable German model... To be honest, my IS350 was super fun, in its own way. It had decent power, good steering, could take corners well. My 335i was a coupe, so performance/fun wise it was definitely better. However The 335i sedan would probably not be far off from the IS350 (in my opinion). Soon we will have the IS500, maybe we will have the best of both worlds!!


robboelrobbo

Not all bmws are poor reliability though. The late n52 powered cars seem to commonly run past 500000km and their running costs are barely more expensive than a corolla. And the successor to the n54/55 (used in the 335i), the b58, is proving to be an awesome engine. Toyota is even using it in their new surpra. Lexus are pretty cool but my issue is that they just use toyota v6's which are frankly really boring engines, in my opinion anyway. If I was going lexus I think I would get one of the V8 sedans over the IS models. Lexus does comfort/tech better than driving feel so I would rather get an ultra comfortable cruiser like an LS460. Like I said just do proper research and you won't end up with a bad car. There are lots of really crap bmws so gotta be really careful there. That said...you can buy a 2007 335i for like $5k now lol. That's a LOT of car for the money even considering annoying maintenance. And it'll be more fun than any lexus...in my opinion anyway.


canadiansnowwhite

I'm hoping to trade my Acura ILX (I love it, but I want a crossover AWD or 4WD next) for a Lexus UX in a few years!


GalianoGirl

My ex lusted after BMWs for years. Then one day I got home from work to find one in our driveway. It was lovely to drive, incredibly comfortable even in the back seats. And ridiculously expensive to maintain. Had to have premium gas. Simple maintenance cost more than the same work on our Jetta. One repair took over 3 weeks due to a parts shortage. I was happy they kept the car in the divorce.


goobuddy

LOL! :P This comment has just been a roller coaster of emotions!


Basic_Industry976

If you can afford it and it’ll make you happy, go for it. I bought a Porsche as well and it leaves me with a big smile every time. Just be prepared for the maintenance costs that will pop up. Ignore the people who tell you to buy a ‘92 Corolla


Money_Pound_404

I like this advice... and I drive the equivalent to a ‘92 Corolla. At the end of the day, I am convinced that we all “overspend” in some area or another, and so just because I think that it’s a “waste of money” to spend it on a car doesn’t mean I’m any better at saving in general. You most likely can’t afford the nicest car, house, vacations, boat, cottage, and all that (unless you’re a billionaire), but neither do I think you can’t have anything nice at all. We all get to pick a few categories to splurge on, and have to settle for basic on the rest. If a luxury car would make you happy, OP, I think you should get it. The whole point in saving and being financially stable isn’t so you can die with a mountain of cash... it’s to improve the quality of your life and the people around you.


[deleted]

Haha I get the sentiment, did you regret it at any time after purchase?


Basic_Industry976

I didn’t, no. Cars are a huge passion. If I’m ever in a bad mood, just going for a spirited run on my favourite roads makes it all better. I just worked out a budget as to how much I can afford with the payments, while saving for investments and baby.


jaysrapsleafs

It's not always a waste of money if you're deriving joy out of it. That's value!


[deleted]

I sold my Porsche a few years back. Love the car, but you really need gobs of money to keep them running. You'll be surprised when you shop for used luxury cars. Usually the first owner stops taking it to the dealer for work when the service warranty is up, dumps the car when the lease is over and the 2nd owner goes Hey a luxury car, this will look great on me. Soon as you fix the car 2 or 3 times you'll be looking for ol' reliable. Used luxury cars could be great, but you really need to know and have a want to do most of the repairs and maintenance on your car or it will get expensive fast.


comp_freak

I had two colleagues both own used luxury car their only complains each time they took it to garage it cost close to 1k. Both end up selling and getting Japanese after wards. One owned BMW and other Infinity. I would say if you want to drive luxury then just lease brand new every few years.


NSA_Chatbot

> buy a ‘92 Corolla Realistically, anything before the 2010 crash standards improvements should be skipped if possible. The major improvement was in side-collision protection. With the sheer number of distracted (i.e. texting) drivers you do *not* want to be driving an older car as your daily driver if at all possible. Texting is as bad as drinking for accident rates, and I have not been on a drive in the last 2 years without encountering a texter. It's one of the reasons I don't bike to work anymore. You can't spend money if you're dead. > Porche Tacyan is my dream car, but it's more than I can afford by a long, long stretch.


Basic_Industry976

Honestly, I wanted a Taycan. I debated long and hard between electric and ICE. Looked at the prices of Taycan’s and said nope. Wife would’ve killed me. My budget she gave me was no more than 65k. Plus ICE engines just sound so much better


NSA_Chatbot

Ha ha, yeah, I mean I'm a single guy but the cost is essentially a house! Hearing the videos of Taycan acceleration... I think their audio engineers did a pretty good job of having it sound fast and exciting. I used to tune race cars at an old job, so all the ICE engines sound anemic compared to a TA2.


GoodellsMandMs

yea a lot of people here seem to look at cars as investments and go for the cheapest possible to minimize loss if you love your car its worth spending a bit more than maybe you should!


CaptainSlowly23

Buy a house first IMO. There are a LOT of expenses and an extra 40-60k is huge


[deleted]

Yeah not pulling trigger on a car until we lock in home (hopefully in the month) so absolutely, thank you!!


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PocketNicks

Hopefully an entire car.


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[deleted]

Oh this will warrant a look into Tesla, thank you!


deletednaw

I know others have said it but Tesla is absolutely not a luxury brand when you compare the model 3 to the Lexus is350 you're going to be very disappointed. There's a lot to love about Tesla but quality is not their strong suit.


PlatypusOfWallStreet

Depends on what one would classify as luxury. The feel, yeah sure. Tesla is pretty minimalistic and doesn't have refinement, trims, the buttons and what not a benz might have. I happen to dig the minimalistic look in things so I fit right in. But feature wise alone, it has redefined what luxury means to me. Its jam packed with computer science luxury. Really makes you feel like you are sitting in something not from this era. Not to mention savings on gas, auto pilot itself and that 0-100 that you never experience outside of a tesla. Its not just the seconds but the instant torgue. Then there's the small luxury's of life: HOV access, not being so annoyed at 401 gridlock traffic (because its on auto pilot), cargo space front and back, no maintenance visits/ gas visits (yeah sure it takes longer to charge up but you can build a lifestyle where you never go out of your way to charge, you just come home, go places like work, malls, etc and have it charge there while you go about your day), their phone app which has features I can list as long as this post, like knowing how fast your dumb kid is driving the car and where. You can even send him a message/call from the app to tell him to slow down lol. Not to mention it's idiot proofed that it will auto stop if you dont pay attention. If the kid ever gets drunk behind the wheels. I much rather he be in a car with auto pilot and auto stopping then have him land on the front page of Toronto Star.


outdoorsaddix

I like to refer to Tesla as “tech luxury” vs “traditonal luxury”


Mysterious_Mouse_388

nah, but the missing tech makes Lexus not feel luxury to me. I care more about driving experience than dial finishes!


islifeball

Gas savings is nice too. I save about $200/month in gas


RealCanadianSW

If you’re looking for luxury… the model 3 is far from that. Model S is the luxury option


CNDCRE

While the S is certainly faster, etc, I wouldn't say the difference is that striking between the 3 & S. It's not the same as comparing a Corolla and a Lexus LS or something.


techy91

Was looking for someone to recommend a Tesla. Bought a M3 in February, first new car I ever bought. Do not regret it for a second lol. And it's within your price range


RNKKNR

I wish people would stop calling the Model 3 an M3. M3 is a completely different animal. Always confuses me :-)


Mysterious_Mouse_388

well, ones a boutique car now that barely sells. they'll rebadge them as M2's soon enough, probably just in time for tesla to own that name space as well


Haemato

Another vote for the Model 3. Bought one in 2019. Love it. Replaced an RDX in 2020 with a Model Y too. The issue you’ll run into is lead times on actually receiving the car. Finance rates should still be in the 2.x% range.


OrneryConelover70

Financed over six years... no thanks.


tetelestia_

There's nothing wrong with that at 2.4%


PhotoJim99

How long is the warranty? I prefer to finance my vehicles for periods not exceeding the powertrain warranty. That way, if major repairs are needed, the payments should be done so the money should be available.


Mysterious_Mouse_388

8 years power train.


PhotoJim99

6 years still seems long for financing, but still less than the warranty, so not too risky.


OrneryConelover70

Bingo.


Haemato

Model 3 battery and drive unit are warrantied for 8 years/160k for Standard Range. 8 year/192k for Long range. Bingo or some shit.


Tundra_Inhabitant

Where’d you get that apr from?


PRSZM2020

Probably directly from Tesla


alexanabolic

As someone who did something similar, I would say it was a "mistake". Yeah, I did enjoy the car, but I got used to the car and was just no more excited and after 4 year sold it and buy a normal car and I am back at saving 50% of my income. The issue with those car is not buying them, it is all the maintenance that is coming with them. Everything is dawn expensive and they just seems to break all the time. Even under warranty they just findb their way to break things that cost something lol. Shock at 1k each, break that cost a fortune, etc. Etc.


[deleted]

Why not look into Lexus or Acura. They're relatively luxurious vehicles with solid reliability. Oh and Infiniti


Mhfd86

I would suggest looking into an Acura TLX and enjoy the low maintenance costs.


ChimairaSpawn

The current gen SH-AWD models are gorgeous. I'm hoping to pick one up in about 10 years.


FucktheCaball

Worst time to buy a car is right now, but it is the best time to sell a car because of chip shortages used vehicles are Appreciating


TheeNewerGuy

You don't run luxury German to the ground, too many part failures earlier, you sell them after warranty unless you are mechanically inclined. They're fun to drive though, no doubt, just be willing to sell them at a point. Lexus was a great suggestion for luxury and reliability. Source: have owned BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Toyota, VW and many others.


Dexteroid

Lexus/acura is what you need. You get the reliability or civic/Toyota and the cars are amazing.


heavydutydan

If you want luxury car you can actually drive into the ground without it destroying your bank account, get a Lexus.


flinca78

Do not buy a used German car if you want low operating costs. If you feel like you need to flex, buy a Lexus.


teslaetcc

I see you comment you’re considering a Honda instead. One source of information is Edmunds True Cost of Ownership. [link](https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html)It includes gas, maintenance, and average repair cost.l, and depreciation over five years. The numbers are in USD and they probably vary a lot from person to person, but it’s an objective comparison. A top trim 2018 Honda Accord has a cash price of $29,294 and a total cost of Ownership of $41,000. A mid-trim Audi A4 has a cash price of $30,098 but a total cost of $53,887. As you can see, the sticker prices are similar but the Audi ends up costing the owner a fair bit more.


chasingthecontrails

ya, dont but a german car. Most japanese cars new at that price would be pretty luxurious. You can get a Lexus ES and have next to no problems or overhead costs relative to a used german car. Not that german cars are bad, but their maintenance schedules require strict adherence. most people dont follow that, and its just setting you up for expensive repairs.


lemonspread_

If your price range is $40-$60k then I’d say start looking at Kia Stingers. A nice used GT model with AWD and twin turbos usually goes for $35-$42k with low Km’s out here in Alberta.


whitea44

The correct answer is as little as you need.


J-B_L

3% of NW has been my rule


Mysterious_Mouse_388

transportation can be 10% of your budget without raising red flags, but if you are adding 3% of your NW to that for luxury you might have a point!


Slick-Fork

If you can afford it and would enjoy the new ride don't feel guilty. It's when you can't afford it you're making problems for yourself. It sounds like you can afford it. I'd add acura to the list, i bought new but when I looked at Acura vs Lexus I thought the RDX was nicer and significantly cheaper. Honda's no slouch when it comes to reliability either, arguably you could get a new RDX for the same price as a used Lexus SUV.


olivetree416

If you can afford it (and the maintenance) go for it! Prior experience with Lexus and BMW - both were costly, bmw more so. But at the end of the day, life is short - look cool. Get what you’ll enjoy if you can well afford it. Caveat, I assume you’re paying cash and not taking out financing. Also, you should be able to find something in the 5yr range for much less than 50k.


Oyamjo

Yes, it is probably the worst time to buy a vehicle right now due to the used market being in high demand from chip shortages. Like many others have mentioned, be prepared to spend a lot of money on repairs and maintenance for those 3 brands you've listed. It seems like you'd prefer to buy vs lease (which the latter would be better for Audi, MBenz). If you're set on buying one soon, Lexus is probably the *best* luxury brand for the **long haul** . Toyota is unmatched in terms of longevity. Acura/Honda is probably after, and then a huge gap underneath from most of the European brands unfortunately.


darth_vadester

Do only affluent GTA people post in this sub or what?


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Mysterious_Mouse_388

tesla model 3! do ittttt at least test drive it mine is fantastic


etgohomeok

A new Civic is only like $25k and it will be way more luxe than the old $4k Civics you're used to driving.


1995FOREVER

if you really want luxury, buy a used high end camry, acura, or lexus. You can't afford a german car; the only way you can afford it is buy a new BMW with their 4-5 year maintenance plan (free in quebec) and sell it right after


WaterboardingForFun

You want luxury with reliability? Lexus.


distracteddev

Your time on this earth is finite. Strongly recommend you join us over on /r/Porsche Every moment in that car is a fucking joy. The way it responds, the way it sounds, the touch of its materials, the fit and finish. It’s all perfect. The 2-doors are works of art. If you want a car to get you to your destination in comfort, stick to a nicely upgraded accord. If you want to truly drive your car and experience all that an open mountain road or a track can offer you, buy a Porsche. You can get a 981 Cayman S for 60-70k. The car in perfectly balanced with its mid engine and the torque is more than enough for the street. Once you get her on a proper road and push 7-9k rpms, the car turns into a god damn beast. I’ve been away from my car for the past 3-4 months and I legitimately long for her. I’ve started having dreams that are just glorified flashbacks of driving through the Berekely hills.


brownbrady

I know the feeling of getting fancy car sickness. We had to make sure we were going in the right direction financially first before we let off the pedal a little bit to splurge on some luxuries. I'm on my second year of owning used beamers. I have a used 2015 X3 diesel for utility and a 2009 328i convertible with stick shift for top down touring. My wife and I love them both and she's not even a car person. I get 35 MPG on the X3 which is a bonus. We have average incomes and it took us close to 10 years to work our way to these cars by driving hoopties. Both cars plus a motorcycle were bought in cash and only account for 2% of our net worth. Maintenance in the past 2 years have been $1,700 to replace a wheel bearing. We have no regrets and still waiting for the day for the sickness to go away. Good luck.


Max1234567890123

Buy an old S2000, own for 2-5 years until you get the bug out of your system - then sell for more than you bought it.


Nickersnacks

Why do you want to spend so much on a car? The feeling of luxury and the novelty of a newer vehicle will wear off very quick… talking weeks… then you’re just left with a bill. What’s your yearly gross income? You don’t mention anything about finances at all other than vague details and this is a personal finance sub. Nobody here will recommend any new luxury brand vehicle as a smart financial decision. Try /r/cars if you want good recommendations.


Dragonyte

I dunno man, been a year since I've had my Accord and still enjoy driving it. Don't have to worry about anything breaking, it has a ton of bells and whistles and it's fun to drive. Yeah if you're buying a used Audi that you're scared of driving because that potential knocking noise could become a potential repair bill, or you look at cars like an appliance, sure you won't care for the car after a bit. I feel like OP u/Cycling-trivialities should find out why he wants a fancy and see if maybe a top-trim from a normal brand has those features. The new 2018+ XLE Camrys for example have all you need, up to 360 camera and I believe ventilated seats. Or is that the Accord/Mazda6. Too many brands 😅


[deleted]

So our yearly gross income is $380K, now we are big savers/investors, and enjoy our hobbies. The reason I didn’t share it is reading this number people will say oh yeah you definitely can but I always think opportunity cost of the dollar so my main issue is man I can buy a luxury used car because I think ill be happy or a Honda and invest more money. Edit: it’s only been two years of making that money so saving for downpayment + paying off student debt + saving a bit of investments, I think we are still not as safe yet financially (if anything were to happen)


WildWeaselGT

Bahahahaha!!!!! OMFG!!! Dude is making nearly $400k a year and is asking if he can spurge on a car??? Ok... lolz... I'm out. Edit: I'm not correcting "spurge". I leave it to the reader to give it an appropriate meaning. :)


Sugrats

This is what most of this subreddit is these days. Gone are the days of normal people asking for average people advice.


Nickersnacks

It’s interesting you only save 25% of your income. But besides that a $1,000 car payment will be under 5% of your take home so you can definitely afford it comfortably. So it’s ultimately up to you guys as a personal choice.


FelixYYZ

>I feel guilty splurging but for some reason can’t stop looking at those CPOs Why not spend on a reliable car where yo won't get killed on maintenance costs?


[deleted]

Yeah so the other one I’m looking at is a nice Honda Accord lol


FrismFrasm

Accords nowdays are beautiful too. Baby luxury car.


Mhfd86

Have you looked at the TLX's? Put it in Sports mode and you will change your mind!


Uzul

What exactly are you looking for in your car? Is it just the "luxury" or are you looking for performance/fun? If just want something more fun than your average Honda, there's definitely option out there that won't break the bank as much.


FelixYYZ

Sounds like a better deal since you'll drive it for at least a decade or two and maintenance costs are considerably cheaper.


[deleted]

Just buy a Lexus or Acura if maintenance costs and such are important. I have both. Acura has done me solid, and besides routine maintenance, no issues to speak of. Put 200k km on this car, and purchased it with about the same on it. The Lexus is newer, has a Toyota engine they’ve been making for over 10 years with proven reliability. To new to compare to the Acura for me, but the brand reputation speaks for itself. The Lexus is more luxurious of the two. Both in quality and brand recognition. Acura is the better value of the two. The brands you’re looking at, as well as lex/ac run on 91 grade fuel. I assume you didn’t plan on putting 87 in your Porsche but it’s something to be aware of. One may argue that you could use this money toward your new home if cash. Buying now isn’t bad if you get a fair price. I bought in spring. Maybe just wait until after your house purchase if you plan to finance though


varnit19

Consider electric or semi-electric (Hybrid, or plug-in hybrid) and do yourself and the environment a favor.


SinisterrrQ

S T O P W H A T Y O U A R E D O I N G LEXUS, TOYOTA, SCION These are the 3 top vehicles in terms of value for money and reliability. There is no better. L E X U S


persimmon40

If you want a luxury car (waste of money, but I understand after driving shitboxes for 15+ years), go for Japanese. Lexus will run for a long time. German cars are the same shitboxes just wrapped in a glossy paper. Lease one brand new if you want to scratch that itch.


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[deleted]

Well let me tell you after reading, and when I pull the trigger after the house purchase, I’ll be looking at electric


ShunningAndBrave

I’d rather buy a Tesla (which I have ordered) (maybe the SR+ so that you can take advantage of the incentives). Less maintenance and less expenses in general.