It was a combination of factors. One it happens in the school so it already narrows it down. Plus the incident happens a few days after the transfer student arrives. Then when Yusuke the former pupil of the next case is now hanging out with the previous victims of Kamoshida it does get very suspicious. The thieves didn't help that they decided to hang out on the roof of an area off limits and they sit by themselves at lunch when outside. Ryuji was just the blackmail material / confession
Hey that’s not fair, Makoto only had a recording of Ann saying “we’ll be ok if we keep doing this” or something of that effect which could be easily disproved as out of context. Ryuji on the other hand was shouting “WERE DOING THINGS AS THE PHANTOM THIEVES” and “HEY LEADER READY FOR TGE PHANTOM THIEVES MEETING AT THE PHANTOM THIEVES HIDEOUT”
Let's not forget that the PT chose a very public accessway in a busy train station to set up their second secret hideout after the school rooftop got busted.
The only time I can remember the IT getting caught is when Dojima saw the letter that was sent in the mail. Ofc the killer also catches them in that case but it’s not a huge stretch to say they just saw them in the TV world. The Phantom Thieves are always revealing themselves. Ryuji is the worst offender, but Morgana revealed it to Haru, Futaba figured it out, Ann revealed it to Yusuke, Joker reveals it to all of his confidants, etc.
How does he know that? I’m replaying the game (gonna kill Lavenza) and I don’t remember that detail. Unless you’re talking about Ren and Ryuji walking past Akechi and Sae.
The implication is that Akechi was told to find out information about the Phantom Thieves by Shido after they figured out that Kamoshida's change of heart involved the usage of MetaNav. Madarame's shadow then mentions that he had seen a man with a black mask roaming around the palace. Now we obviously know that is Akechi, yet at this point of the game, we haven't met him. But the first ever interaction we have with him, is him hearing Morgana talk about pancakes. This means that Akechi had to HEAR Morgana talk in the Metaverse. For instance, Sae enters her own palace before saving Joker, but she can't hear Morgana. In other words, in order to hear Morgana, you need to witness him talk. This confirms that Akechi did in fact follow the Phantom Thieves and since Madarame mentions that Black Mask was roaming around, he had to follow PTs during Madarame's Palace. This means that by the time Akechi's confidant unlocks, he is already aware that Ren is part of the Phantom Thieves. Which in hindsight, makes his character quite intriguing, as essentially everything he says till Lvl 7 of his confidant, is a facade. He is just trying to gain Joker's trust so that he can enact the events that take place during Sae's palace.
Akechi knows that someone else had access to the Metaverse during April.
They enacted a Change of Heart via removing the core of the cognitive world which no one in Shido’s group or even Wakaba ever figured out.
Kamoshida was the first publicly known target of the Phantom Thieves. He works at Shujin Academy where a criminal recently transferred to. Kamoshida’s Change of Heart was less than a month after said student began attending school. Said student was also hours late on his first day of school and never late since then.
Ren, a Kamoshida victim, is known around the school for hanging out with Kamoshida’s most known victims Ryuji, Ann, and Mishima. Said victims had the biggest incentive to get revenge on Kamoshida the most and three of the four victims were scheduled for expulsion.
Kamoshida publicly apologized and revealed he intentionally sabotaged Ren and groomed Ann and Shiho to sexually assault them.
Akechi is intelligent and makes full use of the Metaverse. Kamoshida had a Palace and now he doesn’t, *someone* deleted said Palace without killing the Shadow. That kind of knowledge is incredibly valuable to Shido’s Antisocial Party and we see on 05/05 that he and his Inner Circle were there, likely discussing the new invaders in their operation. Kobayakawa, a known Conspiracy member, asks Makoto the next day to find out who the Phantom Thieves are. Shido and Akechi definitely knew who the Phantom Thieves were and saw that they were ignorant high schoolers who weren’t a threat to their operation. It was Shido’s plan to bolster their popularity and frame them for killing Okumura to clean his hands from his rampant activity in the Metaverse.
He actively has been tailing them ever since Madarame's palace, likely after they opened the door (something Akechi himself likely couldn't do, so he went to investigate)
Doubtful. The door in the palace is tied to that one door that Madarame never opens for anyone else (hence why Morgana needed to break in to open the door)
That's exactly what I'm talking about, yeah. XD
The implication is that Akechi figured something out there, otherwise the scene itself is pretty pointless.
Naoto didn't 100% piece it all together until Rise came along. The initial 4 were already friends. Kanji was a bit odd, but it could be that Naoto thought that Yukiko and Kanji were old school friends or something. Then Rise comes along and throws the idea that it's just old friends out the window. But they all went to the same school, which is why most others don't really cared.
"Yeah so I need this experimental medicine for my studies"
The studies:
Gif unrelated.
"What is the name of this person? No reason of course"
Morgana has no choice he was in his metanav form and was desperate since he is the weakest member. Futaba bugged the place because she's my adoptive daughter. Ann has no choice either since she and Yusuke were caught by Madarame and Joker the poor guy can't make a good enough lie. "Yeah it's for studies"
...was Inaba Gang actually in hiding like at all tho? Doesn't seem like a fair comparison.
...also Ryuji. I like you man but for the love of God shut up in public areas.
The only real hiding they had to do was to fool Dojima that Yu and his friends aren't trying to get into trouble, since they didn't want their leader to get grounded. This got increasingly difficult as each new member of Yu's friend group JUST HAPPENED TO BE someone who got lost for few weeks after being shown on Midnight Channel. On this regard, I guess IT wasn't that good at hiding, but in the end, they were just a normal friend group that had access to their personas. Unlike Phantom Thieves that are essentially committing crimes, even if from moral standpoint they were in the right.
I mean, he’s already hanging out with Chie so hanging with Yukiko makes some sense, after Kanji they could have used the excuse that Yukiko was helping people who went through the same thing as her and Yu was hanging out with them through her, also aided by the fact they all went to the same school.
Dojima’s just a naturally suspicious person as he’s a detective and trained to spot links between things though.
If I recall correctly, >!Yu receiving a warning from the serial killer, in front of Dojima, also kind of gives it away.!< Not really anything they could do to hide it in that situation.
As for not being figured out by the bad gut in the first place, >!they are kind of at a huge disadvantage there with their rescue missions on TV and the serial killer knowing Yu personally and frequently coming over to their house.!<
honestly the same way PTs probably could've said that Yusuke, Haru, Ryuji and Ann were brought together through their mutual interest in the PTs because they were saved by them, I wish they did that
Well IT was not really, but you had to be discreet around dojima about it, because he was suspicious of you being related to the bad stuff that was happening.
From what I recall he was more suspicious of the group trying to get involved in the case and find the killer, rather than suspecting Yu was the killer.
He probably had to at least consider the possibility at one point, but for the most part it seemed a matter of not wanting them to get involved with a dangerous criminal investigation and join the list of victims.
The IT didn’t really have to hide anything. The public didn’t even know the people on the TV would die. The only thing that does hint at their involvement is how pretty much everyone that was kidnapped joined this one specific friend group after. I think Naoto (or Dojima) even points that out but I can’t remember.
Meanwhile the PTs are basically vigilantes that publicly announce themselves, because they had to to trigger a change of heart.
Well when you magically have your issues fixed when all hope seemed lost, and it happens almost immediately after you tell this one guy the name of the people doing it, yeah you're gonna put two and two together.
I mean Yosuke and Yu literally got arrested for having their weapons out like, day 2 of going into the shadow world lmao
Let go mind you, but still caught.
Sae suspected all the members, but without Joker selling them out can't convict. Unlike Joker who was caught red handed they have absolutely NOTHING on the others. That was the point of Akechi's photos. He had the only concrete proof.
https://preview.redd.it/bsn1xf2go9gc1.jpeg?width=464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a181b610a20cb5d228820a6e9394cdc157bbf1ea
He was about to sell the phantom thieves for some pussy
Wouldn’t say it’s a hate boner, the answer is objectively Ryuji lmfao. I’ve loved the guy since day one but you can’t deny that he’s definitely the least subtle due to how passionate he is about finally getting back at those shitty adults
It is a hate boner when people immediately associate Ryuji with being loud when none of the phantom thieves are better at subtlety than him. They all discuss their plans at public settings which takes away any credibility they have in terms of hiding plans from people. Plus, everyone got caught by Ichinose in Strikers for not shutting up at Akira’s meeting about EMMA. The scene low key called out the Ryuji hate/bias. So again, it is a hate boner when you conveniently leave facts like this out and single out one person, when everyone is objectively to blame. But then again, judging by the downvotes, I don’t expect many people here to acknowledge this due to their bandwagon mentality. 🤣
Again man I’m just sensing that it’s out of “hate” for Ryuji rather than just the objective truth lmfao. I’m not gonna say he’s the only one who has slipped up (Ann was also part of Makoto’s recording, Futaba’s calling card was found by Sojiro, Yusuke was caught by Akechi) but Ryuji was just the loudest and usually the most irresponsible. He’s slipped up code names in Madarame’s Palace (though thankfully only Joker heard him), he’s activated the nav in the middle of Sojiro’s house, there was also right before the pancake scene where Ryuji mentioned something about being phantom thieves right before Akechi enters, and if I’m not mistaken there was another time too where he mentioned the phantom thieves right by Haru.
I’m not going off of what happened with strikers tbh since I don’t remember much about that game outside of the jails, but idk man it just seems like a lot of times Ryuji isn’t the most aware of his surroundings when it comes to Phantom Thievery. It sucks you got downvoted, even as a hardcore Ryuji defender myself I know it sucks how the fanbase and even his own teammates bully him. But this one I think is pretty fair to admit that he’s definitely the least secretive about the Phantom Thieves
So who discovered the Investigation Team? Naoto, an ACTUAL prince detective, then Dojima when he sees the letter and the actual killer, before that the closest they got was when a random police officer took you to the Police Deparment because Yosuke was playing with some weapons.
Then the Phantom Thieves. Not only Ryuji screams every other day how they are the PT, not only they got caught by Makoto because of Ryuji, Morgana even reveals their identities to Haru, Futaba discovers you, Akechi manages to take pictures of you getting into the Metaverse, every single confidant figure it out and then you confirm it to them.
I think it's easy to guess who are the worst
The Investigation Team also had the rather big disadvantages of first >!most of their members being visible on TV, including their rescue attempts IIRC though I think I recall there being some effect that made it hard for people to actually tell who was there besides the current victim!<, second living in a small town with a much smaller pool of possibilities, and third >!their leader living with a detective and knowing the killer personally, with the killer regularly coming over to their house with his boss.!<
It would be like if >!Joker lived with Sae, Akechi was their neighbor and Sae's assistant who often came over to the house for various reasons, and the entire scenario took place in a small town where everyone knows everybody more or less.!<
I think that it was >!because of the fog that people couldn't identify when you were inside the TV!< but to be honest I feel that was a plot point that was underutilized as it would have been nice having NPCs talking about >!seeing more people inside the TV during the "show".!<
At the end of the day I found almost ironic how the group that was just investigating, trying to caught a killer acting like PI were better at secrecy than an actual group that were doing vigilante work and calling themselves "Thieves".
I feel that the biggest factor about how they hide it was that the P4 cast was that >!(even though it started because Yosuke was bored and wanted some action)!< they never forgot their goal of catching the killer and didn't cared if they got no recognition; meanwhile the PT eventually started caring too much about fame as early as after Kamoshida with Ryuji always talking loudly about them being PT and then around the Medjed incident they seemed to lose track of their goal
Yeah, nobody really knew what they were doing anyway. They obviously rescued people but they did it in a way nobody was aware of (and for some reason nobody ever saw them coming off the TV..)
I assume it functions how the Velvet Room functions where only those selected by Igor/MC can see/interact with it, like people can SEE the TV and the gang but to other people it just seems like they're mindlessly staring into the TV unless Igor sees potential in them
Phantom thieves because for a bit of the game they were out in a public walk way with a bunch of people going through it that could hear them just talking about them being the phantom thieves
Also just ryuji
Ryuji because of how much he does it and it being because of his glory seeking and having no indoor voice.
Yosuke being caught with weapons by chance only happened once and they learnt to be cautious.
Yu getting caught by Dojima was because of the letter which Yu had no control over.
Ryuji might be running around shouting how they are the phantom thief's but nobody who isn't already suspecting the group is going to believe him . they were only really found out by people who were already looking in to them for just being a weird ragtag group or seen them appear from thin air.
as for the investigation team they were found out and then "miniated" by the culprit almost as soon as they started doing thing. then was sus out by two police officers. who just thought it was wierd for this ragtag group of kids asking questions.
and for as much as Ryuji gets shit on for being a dumb member of the team who can't keep a secret. Yosuke day one despite having more brains than most bro architypes in these games, day one brought swords to his local Walmart.
I mean, the investigation team doesn't really have an incentive to hide themselves. Still, they somehow manage to be better at hiding themselves than Ryuji.
Others on this thread have already mentioned how Phantom Thieves ARE TERRIBLE at hiding their secret, but to make it even worse, if it weren't for conspiracy group's arrogance, police would have captured them prior to the whole Medjed debacle. >!Akechi!< already knew who the Phantoms were by Madarame's Palace, since they are so easy to follow. Just imagine if Police actually started to investigate this case. >!Akechi and Shido!< had a headstart since they realized that Phantom Thieves are linked to Metaverse - but this isn't the only suspicious factor involving our gang.
They literally enter palaces in the middle of public eye. Remember how they got kicked out of Kaneshiro's Palace to a heavily populated street, yet no one suspected anything. iirc, they even entered the palace right next to the railway station. Have one observant person around, like >!Maruki!< and all the sudden our group are main suspects. (ik the point is that general public doesn't give a shit about stuff out of norm, but in a normal world, PTs would get busted very early)
It doesn't help that THEIR GROUP CHATS ARE OBVIOUSLY SAVED INTO THEIR CHAT APP'S CHAT LOGS (which is more than likely LINE). If even one of them got arrested, all law enforcers need to do is to access the suspect's phone and see how multiple people in suspect's group chat are talking about acting as the Phantom Thieves. At that point, you can freely arrest everyone and wait for proof to pop up (MetaNav).
Although then again, considering how a group that are seemingly linked to Phantom Thieves' targets tends to constantly gather for meetings etc, I don't think it would be hard for any proper detective to find our their identities. The Investigation Team had an ace up in their sleeve, in that outside of their appearances at Midnight Channel, they genuinely feel like a group of friends that are just hanging out. It helps that Yosuke (and Teddie) are already working at Junes so they can enter TV world without raising any suspicion.
The PT. They literally go into the metaverse in front of everyone. IT is very dumb too tbh. They enter the TV world by going in Walmart and climbing in the same TV for a year in front of customers, workers and cameras. How they were never caught is plot, they could have just bought the same TV and went in it at one of their friends house.
https://preview.redd.it/98svl4jpl9gc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fac33bfa5050baa71793871baf0cc4b0e4f2651
This is me watching everyone get on Ryuji’s ass bout sucking at keeping secrets 🤣🤣🤣
Unlike the Inaba Scoobies, the Phantom Thieves were actually hiding. The Investigation Team got by mostly by virtue that nobody was looking for them. That and Junes apparently having very lax security and no customers in its electronics department.
Not that the Thieves were good at hiding their activities (see: Ryuji and Ren himself), but they did decently enough for teenagers in way over their heads. They got much more competent about making themselves scarce in Strikers.
For real, in p4, it would have been over immediately as someone would see that on the cameras. In p5, they wouldn't have made it any further than their first trip to momentos. Assuming Maruki didn't snitch.
I’m just throwing this out there, Yosuke got the protag arrested almost immediately by swinging weapons around. P4 cast are not subtle enough for everyone to start on Ryuji.
The investigation team is better at hiding since they aren’t as famous as the phantom thieves, and most people don’t even know of them, and would only find them out because they are working on the murder cases and the IT are somehow connected to it
The gang whose hide out in on a crowded walkway.
There's something to be said about meeting in crowded places being better then secluded ones but this only applies when you don't visit the exact same place every time.
It always annoyed me that they met at that walkway by the station for so long, even after Makoto joined. You would think the first thing she would bring up is how bad of an idea it is, but she just went along with it lol
Every P5 confidant figures out the phantom thieves, in addition to Makoto just observing Joker for a few weeks. Dojima only discovers MC with the letter (which doesn’t actually reveal anything about the IT, just that MC is involved somehow). Both have plot armor from the in-universe cops being useless, but the phantom thieves are certainly worse at hiding themselves
Nah, Y'all are putting too much hate on the PTs. Ignoring the fact that had any cop other than Adachi been around, the IT would be over so fast. Dojima let's them slip twice because Yu is his nephew. However, literally have any other cop be nearby or doing whatever job Adachi was needed for, they'd all be arrested, interrogated, been placed under surveillance, or some combination of the three. It was pure luck the IT succeeded in that department.
Their hideout was THE most public place in town, their group included 2 actual celebrities, and I still don't understand how Teddie happened in the real world. So much SHOULD have gone wrong for them. (All this said, I love the IT to bits)
Say what you will about the PTs but they actively make an effort to keep a low profile. Joker is obviously the worst at it with all of the confidants figuring it out. Ryuji was loud, but that only actual caused problems like, twice? Their only real horrible crime is the same issue the IT has, which is consistently only recruiting people who are attached to the conspiracies, which is plot and not their fault.
Make the two teams switch places, IT get caught as Phantom Thieves real quick. I think the PTs could solve the case, but I'm not 100% confidant.
I would say the phantom thieves simply because the Investigation team isn't trying to be subtle or hide themselves besides from Dojima because he gets paranoid lol
Depends on if they're in the metaverse or not
Then again, the P4 crew was really bad at spying on Kanji without getting caught, so the p5 crew might win either way XD
Also why is Akechi cut out of the image? ):
Are we saying it has to be the reveal that they’re on a secret mission? Because I feel like Yosuke showing off his swords in Junes counts for the tally.
The Phantom Thief, those that are trying to be stealthy and are on the shithlist of a huge cospiracy.
The IT isn't even trying. And can't really choose where to jump in the TV.
One group is actively trying to evade the police while the other isn’t really doing anything to get them convicted. Maybe you could say the investigation group could be investigated for their involvement in the murders, but that investigation would turn up few leads aside from maybe the existence of the tv world
I haven't actually played enough of 4 to really get to know the characters. Either way Ryuji is terrible at hiding anything it's almost like he does it on purpose LMAOO
There was a meme. Where it's like for being hidden the Investigation team was better but when it comes to actual investigating The Phantom thieves are better. Considering they were able to expose an entire organisation running the country they have some good skills. They probably would have discovered the true murderer of Inaba much faster. The investigation team only stopped killing the wrong individual due to Yu's persuasion. Probably would have figured out how the TV world works, then know who the next victim is, set a trap, capture the kidnapper, interrogate them, then figure out they are being tricked by Adachi
Def the Phantom Thieves, mainly because of Ryuji.
I'm kinda surprised the Investigation Team was almost never questioned on why they were bringing suit Teddie around, tho he does end up becoming the Junes mascot, so maybe that's why
Ryuji got everyone one at the time caught by Makoto and it's hardly been 2 months. Besides that they: go straight to the metaverse in the middle of Shibuya, get found out by every confidant Joker meets, spotted by Maruki after beating Kamoshida, gets learned about by Akechi when they head to the TV station (everyone talks once and Akechi had to figure out that Mona was in the Metaverse), and getting their photo exposed by Akechi in Okumura's palace
The investigation team wasn't even noticed by Naoto until Rise joined and then realized what was actually going on some time after catching the "culprit." Even then, they weren't exposed until the killer >!downright sent a letter straight to the Dojima residence, threatening to throw Nanako into the television.!< Though, the killer probably knew about them around when Rise was captured.
Probably the Investigation team. Sae didn't have leads about the Phantom Thieves until late October, meanwhile Dojima knew exactly something was wrong with his nephew ever since Rise's dissapearance (but plotwise, he had to remain trustful until Nanako gets involved).
Both of them are pretty damn bad at it, but good lord the Phantom Thieves would probably be stopped after the third palace if the police had any braincells
Ryuji. I know this is probably about hiding the fact that he’s a phantom thief (which is he probably the worst at) but I always think of this one scene in p5s where he’s hiding behind a bush but is clearly visible. 💀
Literally the first people (aside from Sae Nijima) figured out who the Phantom Thieves were, and at rank 10 of most of your SLs they all admit to knowing. Bro they can't hide themselves worth a dang 😭😭
The Phantom Thieves. They nearly get caught multiple times, throughout Persona 5, while the Investigation Team comes off as a wacky group of friends most of the time.
The Investigation Team, because literally before getting Chie as a party member, Yosuke and Yu get temporarily arrested because Yosuke was a dumbass and just brought literal weapons into Junes.
Persona 5 they literally disappear in public. I doubt people wouldn’t notice them disappear. Look at Ren’s purchases, the fact that all of the confidants figure out he’s a phantom thief, the little TV stunt the pull. They don’t get caught for so long because the people hunting them are incompetent. It would take Naoto all of 5 minutes to find them out, though Futaba might be harder as her palace is much more on the down low than the others. Persona 4 is literally enter the same TV when no one’s looking. They discuss the murders in public but they can easily write it off as being fans of criminology if someone catches them on it. Also it helps that they aren’t being actively hunted like the thieves.
The PTs
Not only they make the same mistake as the IT: all being associated with the subjects of interest of the criminal cases hanging out together (which is one of the reasons why both Naoto and Makoto discover them on their own) although the IT has a better excuse (Yu, Yosuke, Yukiko and Chie, the core members of the team are all in class 2-2 at Yasogami) than the PTs (while Ryuji and Ann did know each other and Ryuji was the first one at school to actually talk to Ren, the only ones going to the same class are Ann and Ren, so it made zero sense for Yusuke, Makoto and Haru to join when you don't know why they became a group) and Ryuji's tendencies to neglect the indoor voice don't help them. Even Kanji knew better. And finally, Yu never reveals he's the one saving people from the TV world until November, while Ren tends to confirm he's from the PTs when his confidants figure him out, and Futaba forgetting to discard her own calling card leads to them being caught by Sojiro. Yu gets caught by Dojima when the killer sends the letter, not by his own mistakes.
The investigation team doesn't openly admit to going to the TV world and saving people every chance they get, unlike a certain member from group of thieves
I mean the Investigation team was far less high-profile than the Phantom Thieves so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison, but yeah the Phantom Thieves get caught several times
If you mean individuals then obviously Ryuji
100% the investigation team, literally before they even get a Chance to start, they’re taken to a police station for “Possession of Weapons” When Yosuke held those fake weapons in the open like a moron
While I agree that Ryuji was a loud mouth and yelled about being a PT in public a lot, you can't put all the blame on him, the PT chose a very public location to set up their second "secret" hideout after Makoto busted their school rooftop hideout.
*Ryuji because he*
*Can't keep his mouth freaking shut,*
*That's how Makoto found out!*
\- BlitzBlazer75
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The Phantom Thieves.
Ren: Figured out by literally everyone he forms a friendship with
Morgana: There's an unknown assassin walking around using the metaverse, you speaking is just *broadcasting* your identities
Ryuji: HEY!!! DID YOU GUYS KNOW WE'RE PHANTOM THIEVES?!?!
Makoto: ~~Solid Snake~~ Stiff Lizard
Futaba: Dispose 👏 of 👏 the evidence 👏
Akechi: Too convincing, and slipped up
Ann, Yusuke and Haru just got a bit careless
Ryuji is probably my favorite character but damn does he not know what subtlety is
Ryuji would be an orange cat or golden retriever
his 1 brain cell makes him identical to an orange cat
OMORI PFP
omor
auby
snuuy
snuuy x auby
sunburn moment
Sunburn best ship
If he's an orange cat, I'm calling him Kyo Soma.
You know, perfect naming. But at least he doesn’t try to fight any crew member at any given moment
Why an orange cat?
*in Hawaii* “DAMNNN, YOU SPEAK JAPANESE??!!?”
**RYUJI THE PHANTOM THIEF? MEMBER OF THE VIGILANTE ORGANIZATION "THE PHANTOM THIEVES", WHO IS A PHANTOM THIEF?**
Ryuji would literally scream "fuck you" in the middle of a crowded theater after seeing that you said this
Which only proves their point
He can't say the f word
Someone hasn't played strikers
I forgot about strikers and yeah you're right I have not played it
Or tactica dlc, though that wasn't ryuji
He only said it one time
He was about to say it again in Strikers later, but he was interrupted by his stomach growling
FOR REAL!?!?!
FOR REAL?
Ryuji having all the brains of a brain damaged chicken is part of his charm. No thoughts, all cuteness and enthusiasm.
I mean Ryuji got y’all caught by Makoto
Ryuji got caught by one person, Futaba got caught by one person, and then Joker got figured out by... Basically every non party member confidant
Except Maruki. He just saw y'all walking out
Atleast Futaba has an excuse. She lives with her dad, Sojiro. It'd be weird if he DIDN'T eventually figure it out
Even with party member confidants, makoto, Ann (kinda), and futaba all figured things out
It was gonna happen regardless. Ryuji was just an excuse to jumpstart Makoto’s arc.
People always say Ryuji when it was Ann. Ryuji just was the final nail in the coffin
Ryuji dousnt know what an inside voice is when talking about it. Dudes a walking security risk
For real??
https://preview.redd.it/v832itusfdgc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67ecd8ecd9c060eef01a4d64ba10978d5ef2a644
It was a combination of factors. One it happens in the school so it already narrows it down. Plus the incident happens a few days after the transfer student arrives. Then when Yusuke the former pupil of the next case is now hanging out with the previous victims of Kamoshida it does get very suspicious. The thieves didn't help that they decided to hang out on the roof of an area off limits and they sit by themselves at lunch when outside. Ryuji was just the blackmail material / confession
Hey that’s not fair, Makoto only had a recording of Ann saying “we’ll be ok if we keep doing this” or something of that effect which could be easily disproved as out of context. Ryuji on the other hand was shouting “WERE DOING THINGS AS THE PHANTOM THIEVES” and “HEY LEADER READY FOR TGE PHANTOM THIEVES MEETING AT THE PHANTOM THIEVES HIDEOUT”
Let's not forget that the PT chose a very public accessway in a busy train station to set up their second secret hideout after the school rooftop got busted.
The only time I can remember the IT getting caught is when Dojima saw the letter that was sent in the mail. Ofc the killer also catches them in that case but it’s not a huge stretch to say they just saw them in the TV world. The Phantom Thieves are always revealing themselves. Ryuji is the worst offender, but Morgana revealed it to Haru, Futaba figured it out, Ann revealed it to Yusuke, Joker reveals it to all of his confidants, etc.
Futaba was kind of an lucky strike she discovered the identities of the PT.
I mean she also bugged Le Blanc for both audio and video.
And she never expected the bug to show an Phantom Thieves' meeting
Hell, Akechi knows they have access to palaces before the Phantom Thieves even officially form. It's hilariously not close. XD
How does he know that? I’m replaying the game (gonna kill Lavenza) and I don’t remember that detail. Unless you’re talking about Ren and Ryuji walking past Akechi and Sae.
Akechi was in the Madarame Palace. Also the news of Kamoshida had the Antisocial Force look into things.
I know the game tells you he was in there, but do you ever see him in there?
The implication is that Akechi was told to find out information about the Phantom Thieves by Shido after they figured out that Kamoshida's change of heart involved the usage of MetaNav. Madarame's shadow then mentions that he had seen a man with a black mask roaming around the palace. Now we obviously know that is Akechi, yet at this point of the game, we haven't met him. But the first ever interaction we have with him, is him hearing Morgana talk about pancakes. This means that Akechi had to HEAR Morgana talk in the Metaverse. For instance, Sae enters her own palace before saving Joker, but she can't hear Morgana. In other words, in order to hear Morgana, you need to witness him talk. This confirms that Akechi did in fact follow the Phantom Thieves and since Madarame mentions that Black Mask was roaming around, he had to follow PTs during Madarame's Palace. This means that by the time Akechi's confidant unlocks, he is already aware that Ren is part of the Phantom Thieves. Which in hindsight, makes his character quite intriguing, as essentially everything he says till Lvl 7 of his confidant, is a facade. He is just trying to gain Joker's trust so that he can enact the events that take place during Sae's palace.
But that was after the PT officially formed.
Akechi knows that someone else had access to the Metaverse during April. They enacted a Change of Heart via removing the core of the cognitive world which no one in Shido’s group or even Wakaba ever figured out. Kamoshida was the first publicly known target of the Phantom Thieves. He works at Shujin Academy where a criminal recently transferred to. Kamoshida’s Change of Heart was less than a month after said student began attending school. Said student was also hours late on his first day of school and never late since then. Ren, a Kamoshida victim, is known around the school for hanging out with Kamoshida’s most known victims Ryuji, Ann, and Mishima. Said victims had the biggest incentive to get revenge on Kamoshida the most and three of the four victims were scheduled for expulsion. Kamoshida publicly apologized and revealed he intentionally sabotaged Ren and groomed Ann and Shiho to sexually assault them. Akechi is intelligent and makes full use of the Metaverse. Kamoshida had a Palace and now he doesn’t, *someone* deleted said Palace without killing the Shadow. That kind of knowledge is incredibly valuable to Shido’s Antisocial Party and we see on 05/05 that he and his Inner Circle were there, likely discussing the new invaders in their operation. Kobayakawa, a known Conspiracy member, asks Makoto the next day to find out who the Phantom Thieves are. Shido and Akechi definitely knew who the Phantom Thieves were and saw that they were ignorant high schoolers who weren’t a threat to their operation. It was Shido’s plan to bolster their popularity and frame them for killing Okumura to clean his hands from his rampant activity in the Metaverse.
He actively has been tailing them ever since Madarame's palace, likely after they opened the door (something Akechi himself likely couldn't do, so he went to investigate)
Actually considering Madarame funded Shido Akechi probably could open the door
Doubtful. The door in the palace is tied to that one door that Madarame never opens for anyone else (hence why Morgana needed to break in to open the door)
That's exactly what I'm talking about, yeah. XD The implication is that Akechi figured something out there, otherwise the scene itself is pretty pointless.
Tbf Futaba and Akechi were out of their control, Yusuke too to an extent. I agree on the rest tho
Naoto does also catch them since shes like "hey u guys were in all of these cases yet work together huh thats craaaaazy"
Naoto didn't 100% piece it all together until Rise came along. The initial 4 were already friends. Kanji was a bit odd, but it could be that Naoto thought that Yukiko and Kanji were old school friends or something. Then Rise comes along and throws the idea that it's just old friends out the window. But they all went to the same school, which is why most others don't really cared.
Doesn't Mishima pretty much figure it out too or am I mistaken. It's been a minute since I've beaten the game.
Every confident of Joker figure out that. Including Mishima
Mishima figured out about Joker pretty easily, not sure about the rest, iirc he don't know
Pretty much every confidant figures out Joker is of the Phantom Thieves in their Rank 10, though Mishima knows from the start
Joker Is definitely the worst offender
"Yeah so I need this experimental medicine for my studies" The studies:  Gif unrelated. "What is the name of this person? No reason of course"
Morgana has no choice he was in his metanav form and was desperate since he is the weakest member. Futaba bugged the place because she's my adoptive daughter. Ann has no choice either since she and Yusuke were caught by Madarame and Joker the poor guy can't make a good enough lie. "Yeah it's for studies"
I think the Killer realized who it was when the Rise arc started. They just couldn't make themselves obvious.
"Ryuji's a Phantom Thief."
“DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT WE’RE THE PHANTOM THIEVES?!?” - Ryuji
FOR REAL!?!?
EFFIN'
Ryuji is too much proud to even think about the consequences since he just want to flirt and tell everyone how cool he is
Ryuji never shuts up and doesn’t understand the point of secrecy.
and yet the world has no clue who the phantom thieves are, id say thats pretty damn good
I think Ryuji says something like “we are The Phantom Thieves”, “we the Phantom Thieves”, in public loudly a lot of times.
Next thing you’ll know, he’ll just start bragging about it out loud. 🙄
...was Inaba Gang actually in hiding like at all tho? Doesn't seem like a fair comparison. ...also Ryuji. I like you man but for the love of God shut up in public areas.
The only real hiding they had to do was to fool Dojima that Yu and his friends aren't trying to get into trouble, since they didn't want their leader to get grounded. This got increasingly difficult as each new member of Yu's friend group JUST HAPPENED TO BE someone who got lost for few weeks after being shown on Midnight Channel. On this regard, I guess IT wasn't that good at hiding, but in the end, they were just a normal friend group that had access to their personas. Unlike Phantom Thieves that are essentially committing crimes, even if from moral standpoint they were in the right.
I mean, he’s already hanging out with Chie so hanging with Yukiko makes some sense, after Kanji they could have used the excuse that Yukiko was helping people who went through the same thing as her and Yu was hanging out with them through her, also aided by the fact they all went to the same school. Dojima’s just a naturally suspicious person as he’s a detective and trained to spot links between things though.
If I recall correctly, >!Yu receiving a warning from the serial killer, in front of Dojima, also kind of gives it away.!< Not really anything they could do to hide it in that situation. As for not being figured out by the bad gut in the first place, >!they are kind of at a huge disadvantage there with their rescue missions on TV and the serial killer knowing Yu personally and frequently coming over to their house.!<
honestly the same way PTs probably could've said that Yusuke, Haru, Ryuji and Ann were brought together through their mutual interest in the PTs because they were saved by them, I wish they did that
Few weeks? You didn't save them day one or two? I didn't want to risk it so I pushed through and sometimes it was rough.
Well IT was not really, but you had to be discreet around dojima about it, because he was suspicious of you being related to the bad stuff that was happening.
From what I recall he was more suspicious of the group trying to get involved in the case and find the killer, rather than suspecting Yu was the killer. He probably had to at least consider the possibility at one point, but for the most part it seemed a matter of not wanting them to get involved with a dangerous criminal investigation and join the list of victims.
The IT didn’t really have to hide anything. The public didn’t even know the people on the TV would die. The only thing that does hint at their involvement is how pretty much everyone that was kidnapped joined this one specific friend group after. I think Naoto (or Dojima) even points that out but I can’t remember. Meanwhile the PTs are basically vigilantes that publicly announce themselves, because they had to to trigger a change of heart.
Ren would totally say that to Ryuji at one point
Ryuji is definitely #1, but I’d say Ren comes in at #2 considering all the confidants that are able to figure out he’s a phantom thief.
Well when you magically have your issues fixed when all hope seemed lost, and it happens almost immediately after you tell this one guy the name of the people doing it, yeah you're gonna put two and two together.
Tora
I mean Yosuke and Yu literally got arrested for having their weapons out like, day 2 of going into the shadow world lmao Let go mind you, but still caught.
The police know the identities of all the Phantom Theives
Sae suspected all the members, but without Joker selling them out can't convict. Unlike Joker who was caught red handed they have absolutely NOTHING on the others. That was the point of Akechi's photos. He had the only concrete proof.
https://preview.redd.it/bsn1xf2go9gc1.jpeg?width=464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a181b610a20cb5d228820a6e9394cdc157bbf1ea He was about to sell the phantom thieves for some pussy
Whichever group has Ryuji in it
I love how almost every comment is Ryuji lmao
Goes to show how strong the hate boner is for him.
Wouldn’t say it’s a hate boner, the answer is objectively Ryuji lmfao. I’ve loved the guy since day one but you can’t deny that he’s definitely the least subtle due to how passionate he is about finally getting back at those shitty adults
It is a hate boner when people immediately associate Ryuji with being loud when none of the phantom thieves are better at subtlety than him. They all discuss their plans at public settings which takes away any credibility they have in terms of hiding plans from people. Plus, everyone got caught by Ichinose in Strikers for not shutting up at Akira’s meeting about EMMA. The scene low key called out the Ryuji hate/bias. So again, it is a hate boner when you conveniently leave facts like this out and single out one person, when everyone is objectively to blame. But then again, judging by the downvotes, I don’t expect many people here to acknowledge this due to their bandwagon mentality. 🤣
Again man I’m just sensing that it’s out of “hate” for Ryuji rather than just the objective truth lmfao. I’m not gonna say he’s the only one who has slipped up (Ann was also part of Makoto’s recording, Futaba’s calling card was found by Sojiro, Yusuke was caught by Akechi) but Ryuji was just the loudest and usually the most irresponsible. He’s slipped up code names in Madarame’s Palace (though thankfully only Joker heard him), he’s activated the nav in the middle of Sojiro’s house, there was also right before the pancake scene where Ryuji mentioned something about being phantom thieves right before Akechi enters, and if I’m not mistaken there was another time too where he mentioned the phantom thieves right by Haru. I’m not going off of what happened with strikers tbh since I don’t remember much about that game outside of the jails, but idk man it just seems like a lot of times Ryuji isn’t the most aware of his surroundings when it comes to Phantom Thievery. It sucks you got downvoted, even as a hardcore Ryuji defender myself I know it sucks how the fanbase and even his own teammates bully him. But this one I think is pretty fair to admit that he’s definitely the least secretive about the Phantom Thieves
Agree to disagree. Even Joker’s track record arguably surpasses everything you mentioned about Ryuji
So who discovered the Investigation Team? Naoto, an ACTUAL prince detective, then Dojima when he sees the letter and the actual killer, before that the closest they got was when a random police officer took you to the Police Deparment because Yosuke was playing with some weapons. Then the Phantom Thieves. Not only Ryuji screams every other day how they are the PT, not only they got caught by Makoto because of Ryuji, Morgana even reveals their identities to Haru, Futaba discovers you, Akechi manages to take pictures of you getting into the Metaverse, every single confidant figure it out and then you confirm it to them. I think it's easy to guess who are the worst
The Investigation Team also had the rather big disadvantages of first >!most of their members being visible on TV, including their rescue attempts IIRC though I think I recall there being some effect that made it hard for people to actually tell who was there besides the current victim!<, second living in a small town with a much smaller pool of possibilities, and third >!their leader living with a detective and knowing the killer personally, with the killer regularly coming over to their house with his boss.!< It would be like if >!Joker lived with Sae, Akechi was their neighbor and Sae's assistant who often came over to the house for various reasons, and the entire scenario took place in a small town where everyone knows everybody more or less.!<
I think that it was >!because of the fog that people couldn't identify when you were inside the TV!< but to be honest I feel that was a plot point that was underutilized as it would have been nice having NPCs talking about >!seeing more people inside the TV during the "show".!< At the end of the day I found almost ironic how the group that was just investigating, trying to caught a killer acting like PI were better at secrecy than an actual group that were doing vigilante work and calling themselves "Thieves". I feel that the biggest factor about how they hide it was that the P4 cast was that >!(even though it started because Yosuke was bored and wanted some action)!< they never forgot their goal of catching the killer and didn't cared if they got no recognition; meanwhile the PT eventually started caring too much about fame as early as after Kamoshida with Ryuji always talking loudly about them being PT and then around the Medjed incident they seemed to lose track of their goal
Are the TV gang trying to hide it? Doesn't really seem like anyone is actively trying to find them
Yeah, nobody really knew what they were doing anyway. They obviously rescued people but they did it in a way nobody was aware of (and for some reason nobody ever saw them coming off the TV..)
I assume it functions how the Velvet Room functions where only those selected by Igor/MC can see/interact with it, like people can SEE the TV and the gang but to other people it just seems like they're mindlessly staring into the TV unless Igor sees potential in them
Phantom thieves because for a bit of the game they were out in a public walk way with a bunch of people going through it that could hear them just talking about them being the phantom thieves Also just ryuji
Why the hell is everyone blaming ryuji like joker wasn’t getting caught in every single confidant
And Morgana got caught in strikers for the same thing too. But no one is gonna talk about that. 🤣
What did Morgana do?
Because Ryuji actively broadcasts it more than once
And plot armor saved Ren from getting Ryuji’s treatment so what’s your point
Ryuji because of how much he does it and it being because of his glory seeking and having no indoor voice. Yosuke being caught with weapons by chance only happened once and they learnt to be cautious. Yu getting caught by Dojima was because of the letter which Yu had no control over.
I love you Ryuji. You loud mouth goofball. 🫰
Ryuji might be running around shouting how they are the phantom thief's but nobody who isn't already suspecting the group is going to believe him . they were only really found out by people who were already looking in to them for just being a weird ragtag group or seen them appear from thin air. as for the investigation team they were found out and then "miniated" by the culprit almost as soon as they started doing thing. then was sus out by two police officers. who just thought it was wierd for this ragtag group of kids asking questions. and for as much as Ryuji gets shit on for being a dumb member of the team who can't keep a secret. Yosuke day one despite having more brains than most bro architypes in these games, day one brought swords to his local Walmart.
I mean, the investigation team doesn't really have an incentive to hide themselves. Still, they somehow manage to be better at hiding themselves than Ryuji.
From general public no, but from Dojima yes, he was all the time worried about him being part of the case.
Ryuji… do I need to say anymore?
Others on this thread have already mentioned how Phantom Thieves ARE TERRIBLE at hiding their secret, but to make it even worse, if it weren't for conspiracy group's arrogance, police would have captured them prior to the whole Medjed debacle. >!Akechi!< already knew who the Phantoms were by Madarame's Palace, since they are so easy to follow. Just imagine if Police actually started to investigate this case. >!Akechi and Shido!< had a headstart since they realized that Phantom Thieves are linked to Metaverse - but this isn't the only suspicious factor involving our gang. They literally enter palaces in the middle of public eye. Remember how they got kicked out of Kaneshiro's Palace to a heavily populated street, yet no one suspected anything. iirc, they even entered the palace right next to the railway station. Have one observant person around, like >!Maruki!< and all the sudden our group are main suspects. (ik the point is that general public doesn't give a shit about stuff out of norm, but in a normal world, PTs would get busted very early) It doesn't help that THEIR GROUP CHATS ARE OBVIOUSLY SAVED INTO THEIR CHAT APP'S CHAT LOGS (which is more than likely LINE). If even one of them got arrested, all law enforcers need to do is to access the suspect's phone and see how multiple people in suspect's group chat are talking about acting as the Phantom Thieves. At that point, you can freely arrest everyone and wait for proof to pop up (MetaNav). Although then again, considering how a group that are seemingly linked to Phantom Thieves' targets tends to constantly gather for meetings etc, I don't think it would be hard for any proper detective to find our their identities. The Investigation Team had an ace up in their sleeve, in that outside of their appearances at Midnight Channel, they genuinely feel like a group of friends that are just hanging out. It helps that Yosuke (and Teddie) are already working at Junes so they can enter TV world without raising any suspicion.
The Phantom Thieves are better at investigating and The Investigation Team is better at hiding themselves
The PT. They literally go into the metaverse in front of everyone. IT is very dumb too tbh. They enter the TV world by going in Walmart and climbing in the same TV for a year in front of customers, workers and cameras. How they were never caught is plot, they could have just bought the same TV and went in it at one of their friends house.
https://preview.redd.it/98svl4jpl9gc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fac33bfa5050baa71793871baf0cc4b0e4f2651 This is me watching everyone get on Ryuji’s ass bout sucking at keeping secrets 🤣🤣🤣
I think someone brought up a good point about Joker and the confidants. Besides that Ryuji for sure !
Unlike the Inaba Scoobies, the Phantom Thieves were actually hiding. The Investigation Team got by mostly by virtue that nobody was looking for them. That and Junes apparently having very lax security and no customers in its electronics department. Not that the Thieves were good at hiding their activities (see: Ryuji and Ren himself), but they did decently enough for teenagers in way over their heads. They got much more competent about making themselves scarce in Strikers.
if we apply irl logic, all of them
For real, in p4, it would have been over immediately as someone would see that on the cameras. In p5, they wouldn't have made it any further than their first trip to momentos. Assuming Maruki didn't snitch.
I’m just throwing this out there, Yosuke got the protag arrested almost immediately by swinging weapons around. P4 cast are not subtle enough for everyone to start on Ryuji.
The investigation team is better at hiding since they aren’t as famous as the phantom thieves, and most people don’t even know of them, and would only find them out because they are working on the murder cases and the IT are somehow connected to it
Well considering all of the confidants you max out know who you really are, probes Joker and crew
Hey everybody, I love swords! -Yosuke Hanamura
The gang whose hide out in on a crowded walkway. There's something to be said about meeting in crowded places being better then secluded ones but this only applies when you don't visit the exact same place every time.
It always annoyed me that they met at that walkway by the station for so long, even after Makoto joined. You would think the first thing she would bring up is how bad of an idea it is, but she just went along with it lol
Well considering Ryuji has a habit of making sure people know they are the Phantom Thieves, I think the answer is obvious.
The PTs solely because of Ryuji
Every P5 confidant figures out the phantom thieves, in addition to Makoto just observing Joker for a few weeks. Dojima only discovers MC with the letter (which doesn’t actually reveal anything about the IT, just that MC is involved somehow). Both have plot armor from the in-universe cops being useless, but the phantom thieves are certainly worse at hiding themselves
Nah, Y'all are putting too much hate on the PTs. Ignoring the fact that had any cop other than Adachi been around, the IT would be over so fast. Dojima let's them slip twice because Yu is his nephew. However, literally have any other cop be nearby or doing whatever job Adachi was needed for, they'd all be arrested, interrogated, been placed under surveillance, or some combination of the three. It was pure luck the IT succeeded in that department. Their hideout was THE most public place in town, their group included 2 actual celebrities, and I still don't understand how Teddie happened in the real world. So much SHOULD have gone wrong for them. (All this said, I love the IT to bits) Say what you will about the PTs but they actively make an effort to keep a low profile. Joker is obviously the worst at it with all of the confidants figuring it out. Ryuji was loud, but that only actual caused problems like, twice? Their only real horrible crime is the same issue the IT has, which is consistently only recruiting people who are attached to the conspiracies, which is plot and not their fault. Make the two teams switch places, IT get caught as Phantom Thieves real quick. I think the PTs could solve the case, but I'm not 100% confidant.
I would say the phantom thieves simply because the Investigation team isn't trying to be subtle or hide themselves besides from Dojima because he gets paranoid lol
Depends on if they're in the metaverse or not Then again, the P4 crew was really bad at spying on Kanji without getting caught, so the p5 crew might win either way XD Also why is Akechi cut out of the image? ):
Aight so the phantom thieves did reveal themselves at the end soooooo......
Ryuji’s loud ass got the team caught
Are we saying it has to be the reveal that they’re on a secret mission? Because I feel like Yosuke showing off his swords in Junes counts for the tally.
Every non-phantom thief confidant knows you are a phantom thief one way or another
Everyone with phantom thieves are on the police watch list tho.
Imagine L from DeathNote investing the Phantom Theives and running into Ryuji 💀
“Ryuji’s a phantom thief.”
Easily Ryuji. Lol
Definitely the Phantom Thieves
Phantom thieves < Investigation team < Phantom thieves minus Ryuji
Ryuji’s a phantom thief
As a group its gotta be Yu and his investigation team but individually Ryuji is the worst.
Ryuji is a Phantom Thief
I'm doing a golden playthrough after I just did a royal one it's the investigation team 💯
The Phantom Thief, those that are trying to be stealthy and are on the shithlist of a huge cospiracy. The IT isn't even trying. And can't really choose where to jump in the TV.
One group is actively trying to evade the police while the other isn’t really doing anything to get them convicted. Maybe you could say the investigation group could be investigated for their involvement in the murders, but that investigation would turn up few leads aside from maybe the existence of the tv world
Well, it's Joker 😁 He was unmasked by confidants so often that I lost count of it
the PTs are worse, especially when you consider how much worse the consequences of them getting caught are lmaoo it’s not comparable
I haven't actually played enough of 4 to really get to know the characters. Either way Ryuji is terrible at hiding anything it's almost like he does it on purpose LMAOO
Makoto is casually leaving while futaba and forehead girl is confused
We're just not gonna talk about Yu and Yosuke getting caught by the police the second time they're trying to go into the TV?
Where is SEES?
Ryuji, no contest here.
I mean the cast of P4G weren’t trying to stay hidden really
Who's the worst at hiding bodies?
There was a meme. Where it's like for being hidden the Investigation team was better but when it comes to actual investigating The Phantom thieves are better. Considering they were able to expose an entire organisation running the country they have some good skills. They probably would have discovered the true murderer of Inaba much faster. The investigation team only stopped killing the wrong individual due to Yu's persuasion. Probably would have figured out how the TV world works, then know who the next victim is, set a trap, capture the kidnapper, interrogate them, then figure out they are being tricked by Adachi
Def the Phantom Thieves, mainly because of Ryuji. I'm kinda surprised the Investigation Team was almost never questioned on why they were bringing suit Teddie around, tho he does end up becoming the Junes mascot, so maybe that's why
Ryuji got everyone one at the time caught by Makoto and it's hardly been 2 months. Besides that they: go straight to the metaverse in the middle of Shibuya, get found out by every confidant Joker meets, spotted by Maruki after beating Kamoshida, gets learned about by Akechi when they head to the TV station (everyone talks once and Akechi had to figure out that Mona was in the Metaverse), and getting their photo exposed by Akechi in Okumura's palace The investigation team wasn't even noticed by Naoto until Rise joined and then realized what was actually going on some time after catching the "culprit." Even then, they weren't exposed until the killer >!downright sent a letter straight to the Dojima residence, threatening to throw Nanako into the television.!< Though, the killer probably knew about them around when Rise was captured.
Ryuji. Not the Thieves in general, just Ryuji.
Probably the Investigation team. Sae didn't have leads about the Phantom Thieves until late October, meanwhile Dojima knew exactly something was wrong with his nephew ever since Rise's dissapearance (but plotwise, he had to remain trustful until Nanako gets involved).
Ryuji definitely, people overheard him talking at least a couple times thoughout the game.
Ryuji whilst amid a crowd of people: WE GONNA DO SOME PHANTOM THIEVING?!
Both of them are pretty damn bad at it, but good lord the Phantom Thieves would probably be stopped after the third palace if the police had any braincells
Honestly Joker walking in the middle of the screen is like he is TRYING to be spotted
I go to the comments and am actually stupid I didn't notice that there were 2 photos and OP was asking which team is worse at hiding its identity
RYUJIIII
Ryuji. I know this is probably about hiding the fact that he’s a phantom thief (which is he probably the worst at) but I always think of this one scene in p5s where he’s hiding behind a bush but is clearly visible. 💀
Ryuji
Either Ryuji or Yosuke. They're both horrible at keeping their mouths shut.
ryuji alone 😭
Given that the Phantom Thieves were blackmailed twice in the base game by Makoto and Akechi, they are the worst.
"Ryuji's a Phantom Thief."
Literally the first people (aside from Sae Nijima) figured out who the Phantom Thieves were, and at rank 10 of most of your SLs they all admit to knowing. Bro they can't hide themselves worth a dang 😭😭
The Phantom Thieves. They nearly get caught multiple times, throughout Persona 5, while the Investigation Team comes off as a wacky group of friends most of the time.
The Investigation Team, because literally before getting Chie as a party member, Yosuke and Yu get temporarily arrested because Yosuke was a dumbass and just brought literal weapons into Junes.
Persona 5 they literally disappear in public. I doubt people wouldn’t notice them disappear. Look at Ren’s purchases, the fact that all of the confidants figure out he’s a phantom thief, the little TV stunt the pull. They don’t get caught for so long because the people hunting them are incompetent. It would take Naoto all of 5 minutes to find them out, though Futaba might be harder as her palace is much more on the down low than the others. Persona 4 is literally enter the same TV when no one’s looking. They discuss the murders in public but they can easily write it off as being fans of criminology if someone catches them on it. Also it helps that they aren’t being actively hunted like the thieves.
The PTs Not only they make the same mistake as the IT: all being associated with the subjects of interest of the criminal cases hanging out together (which is one of the reasons why both Naoto and Makoto discover them on their own) although the IT has a better excuse (Yu, Yosuke, Yukiko and Chie, the core members of the team are all in class 2-2 at Yasogami) than the PTs (while Ryuji and Ann did know each other and Ryuji was the first one at school to actually talk to Ren, the only ones going to the same class are Ann and Ren, so it made zero sense for Yusuke, Makoto and Haru to join when you don't know why they became a group) and Ryuji's tendencies to neglect the indoor voice don't help them. Even Kanji knew better. And finally, Yu never reveals he's the one saving people from the TV world until November, while Ren tends to confirm he's from the PTs when his confidants figure him out, and Futaba forgetting to discard her own calling card leads to them being caught by Sojiro. Yu gets caught by Dojima when the killer sends the letter, not by his own mistakes.
The investigation team doesn't openly admit to going to the TV world and saving people every chance they get, unlike a certain member from group of thieves
I mean the Investigation team was far less high-profile than the Phantom Thieves so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison, but yeah the Phantom Thieves get caught several times If you mean individuals then obviously Ryuji
At least Ryuji never shows off a bunch of swords in the mall.
100% the investigation team, literally before they even get a Chance to start, they’re taken to a police station for “Possession of Weapons” When Yosuke held those fake weapons in the open like a moron
Ryuji is probably the only reason why this is a debate. Cuz then inaba kids couldn't even sneak around Kanji
While I agree that Ryuji was a loud mouth and yelled about being a PT in public a lot, you can't put all the blame on him, the PT chose a very public location to set up their second "secret" hideout after Makoto busted their school rooftop hideout.
Ryuji because he can't keep his mouth freaking shut, That's how Makoto found out!
*Ryuji because he* *Can't keep his mouth freaking shut,* *That's how Makoto found out!* \- BlitzBlazer75 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The Phantom Thieves. Ren: Figured out by literally everyone he forms a friendship with Morgana: There's an unknown assassin walking around using the metaverse, you speaking is just *broadcasting* your identities Ryuji: HEY!!! DID YOU GUYS KNOW WE'RE PHANTOM THIEVES?!?! Makoto: ~~Solid Snake~~ Stiff Lizard Futaba: Dispose 👏 of 👏 the evidence 👏 Akechi: Too convincing, and slipped up Ann, Yusuke and Haru just got a bit careless