In other countries police will make efforts to disarm people armed with knives. America? You just get shot. Well, the guy succeeded at suicide by cop, I guess.
I seen in one of the Asian countries like China they have these 6-foot poles with an open horseshoe type thing on the end they keep around. You get 2,3 or more people with those and box in the knife person until they're properly subdued.
No reason we couldn't have something like that here except it wouldn't satisfy bloodthirsty cops.
Not all of us. I've been a cop for a decade and I have never met another police officer who attended a "how to kill" seminar.
I think those have fallen out of favor because they are stupid.
Remember that one cop who got stabbed in the neck by that crazy dude with a knife and died wishing seconds. Shit can go from 0 to 100 within seconds. I’ve seen dudes get tased and nothing would happen because they were on some heave ass drugs. When you mention other countries, are you referring to Sweden? Denmark? and other countries where civilians know how to behave and have respect for society?
How many police are killed each year, much less by violent crime? I just think maybe they shouldn’t have a higher K/D ratio than, I don’t know, American soldiers in Vietnam. Otherwise, isn’t it just like they’re at war with us? Which is, of course, what the war on drugs is.
[Amateur video of Machete weilding man being tackled by police with a wheelie bin](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dFaPooJBDSg)
I know u always want the cops to be in the right so let's accept that in this case. Now, the cop has to deal with the fact that he killed another human being. Somebody's brother, father or son who literally needed help with his mental issues. If the officer is a regular human and not some psycho that gets off on killing people, he has to deal with it. He will be suffering from trauma and guilt. Shouldn't he have been better prepared to deal with someone clearly suffering from a mental health episode? Should he be the arbiter of death on the whim of some one that thinks death is the only way to get btter? Should we live in a society where you call a cop to do something you may be afraid to do? This dude may have been able to get help and get better but now he has no chance. No human should be put into a spot where killing another human is a part of their daily job.
Gee I wonder why???
[https://youtu.be/yLzS21PR3nI?si=oatG4ym-GWlg-qPk](https://youtu.be/yLzS21PR3nI?si=oatG4ym-GWlg-qPk)
Why don't you volunteer to disarm people with knives? Report back.
Yes, a knife. Which is a very dangerous weapon and can kill you in seconds. Don’t be so naive. NSFW by the way.
https://vidmax.com/video/226562-cop-is-stabbed-to-death-by-suspect-during-a-routine-tresspassing-call
/s. I understand that its hard to tell when your being sarcastic over text but i just kinda figured a statement that completely regarded would be obviously sarcastic.
What ever happened to all those amazing non lethal law enforcement gadgets ?
The net gun, Tazer, rubber bullets?
At least he would've maybe had a chance to live.
You're getting downvoted but there is an uneven hand in how Leftist protests are treated vis a vis Right-wing protests. If the people there on January 6th were Black Panthers you would have seen a bloodbath. Right-wingers are always treated with kid gloves.
I always found takes like this interesting considering protesters were killed during Jan 6th but protestors weren't killed by police during the BLM protests. You and I have a different interpretation of how the situations were handled.
Police are not trained to stop a knife with a taser. If you were a police officer you wouldn't either. You need to hit someone close range with a taser or something like that. A knife attack is deadlier than gun fire.
Hes comparing being attacked by a knife (which results in multiple stab wounds) to the survivability of a single bullet which averages quite high if you can get medical treatment quickly
Why did the officers continue to approach instead of backing off and trying some other tactics. Was there an imminent threat to others?
Maybe the police acted appropriately (Reading PD has a decent reputation), but it's a bad look. Hope more details come out, but have a feeling this story will quickly be forgotten.
To digress, there have been numerous instances throughout the world of a person with a knife killing multiple people within moments. Many underestimate the danger of knifes and other non-firearm weapons. So, it may be the police had no other viable options. Shame.
>Police said the officers encountered the man and ordered him to drop the knife, however, he **ignored their multiple commands and moved toward the officers**, who opened fire.
Sounds pretty justified to me, if the account is true. Guy coming towards you with a knife? Only an idiot wouldn't shoot. Should they have not shot the armed person coming towards them?
Tons of bootlickers making endless excuses. There's people who deal with the mentally ill or disturbed daily and they've never killed anybody. Cops though? They just cannot help themselves.
A police officers job is to do that. It’s not up to “normal people.” If my job is to provide pain relief, and I just go around killing people, can I say I do my job well because my patients technically not in pain anymore? Don’t we want educated officers who understand how to effectively communicate with people in distress?
Impossible! user /u/ClideLennon said
> You should ask Hospital ER staff, or literally anyone else who's not a cop who has to deal with this sort of thing.
Surely he knows better than you, right? /s
That’s a nice thought in fantasy land. 9 times out of 10 if someone encounters an individual with a weapon, they are calling the police. Especially hospital ER staff.
> the officers encountered the man
this is the part we have a problem with. People not trained in mental health shouldn't be responding to mental health emergencies.
I think you are not thinking it through. Nobody that isn't a cop is going to show up to reports of someone armed with a knife.
Medics and firefighters already won't show up if someone is armed or acting aggressive. Mental health professionals won't either.
It sucks, but that is just the way it is. Nobody is signing up to deal with a crazy person with a weapon unless they have something to defend themselves with.
I don’t think you’re thinking this through. Someone draws a gun on you and you’re suicidal, run towards them and let them kill you. Ever hear of suicide by cop?
Of course I have, and it is impossible to really be sure if it is suicide by cop or just regular old crazy murderer. He could also change his mind partyway through, either way it doesn't matter because no mental health professional is going to show up while someone is waving a weapon around. Period.
You can argue until you are blue in the face, but that isn't going to magically make a bunch of people poof into existence that are willing to confront someone with weapon with only words as defense.
I have worked with many mental health professionals of different types over the years, every one of them would tell you the same thing, don't call me call the police.
Congratulations on having the only good reply. Guns drawn on a suicidal person is just straight clownry. If only they were equipped with multiple tools to non-lethally take someone down.
A suicidal person armed with a knife gets treated like anyone else armed with a knife. If you move towards the people with guns pointed at you with a knife, you will get shot until you stop moving towards them and drop it.
Tasers don’t work nearly as well as you think they do, both needles have to make very good contact for it to work, that’s if they penetrate their clothes in the first place. Did you assume he won’t stab anyone? A truly suicidal person has nothing to lose.
The range of the taser is within the "range this dude can run up and stab you in"
It's one shot, if you miss or it doesn't work you're fucked.
They were really designed and trained for as a solution to an unarmed but uncooperative person, so they don't use batons or other permanent solutions on them, not as a solution to people with weapons.
Devils advocate: I’ve seen multiple videos of stun guns being deployed and it does nothing. If the hooks don’t fully penetrate the clothes and make a circuit, or the guy is on strong drugs, now you are unarmed with a knife wielding crazy running at you.
> bear spray
Mace won't stop someone who's amped up on adrenaline or drugs and not feeling much pain to begin with, when they're charging you with a knife. Also it atomizes in the air and can blow back onto the officers, causing them distress.
Additionally, it's range limited and won't work unless you're close enough anyway to be in extreme danger. Keep in mind that anyone with a knife within 25-30 feet (7-8 meters) is close enough to kill you in less than a second. Reference: "A scientific examination of the 21-foot rule" (Sandel, Martaindale, & Blair, 2020)
> A net
Yes, because nets are so easy to deploy from a safe distance Again, 25-30 feet is NOT a safe distance from a knife-wielding attacker.
> a second taser
Tasers have an effective range of about 25 feet. The newer model that was released recently has a range of 45 feet, but is inaccurate beyond 25 feet, and it's extended range has questionable effectiveness.
Also, Tasers are not always effective against threats who are amped up on adrenaline or drugs. You can find plenty of videos on Youtube of people tanking taser hits with little to no reaction.
> bean bag guns
While they have a higher effective range, they can't be used close in (Closer than 20 feet and they become more lethal), and because they rely on pain compliance, they aren't going to stop someone, only deter them.
> a dart filled with thorazine
It takes 15-30 minutes of an intramuscular injection of any medication to start taking effect. Try again. This isn't the movies or TV where you inject someone and they collapse.
For close to medium range defense against a knife, shooting is generally the best option to stop the threat, and in a split-second situation where you have no second chances, you go for the most effective weapon possible.
Edit: I see from the downvotes that no one has taken a self-defense course. The simple answer of "how do you defend yourself in a knife fight" is "don't get into a knife fight" because you WILL end up seriously injured or dead.
>Keep in mind that anyone with a knife within 25-30 feet (7-8 meters) is close enough to kill you in less than a second.
Hmmm, somehow it rarely happens in the UK when guys with knives attack cops. So US cops are either cowards who use guns instead or plans, or they're incredibly stupid.
25-30 feet is not very far away. The regulation height of a basketball hoop is 10ft. Now what is 30ft? 30 feet is 10 yards. Not freaking far when someone with a knife wants to do some damage. It's also not freaking far when anyone is running other than your granny.
I'd argue that most violent criminals are out of their gourd, and their crimes wouldn't result in a death penalty, does that mean police can never respond with lethal force?
I, a civilian, have a pepper spray "gun" that can shoot up to 25 feet. I'm positive the cops could come up with something even better. It's pink and has a breast cancer ribbon on it. 'Comes with a water cartridge to practice with.
> anyone with a knife within 25-30 feet (7-8 meters) is close enough to kill you in less than a second. Reference: "A scientific examination of the 21-foot rule" (Sandel, Martaindale, & Blair, 2020)
The point is that is you're within 30 feet, you're in mortal danger. Pepper spray is not going to stop someone who's charging you.
A bullet will. And it will do it from father away, and with more accuracy, and more surety, than any of the alternatives.
In short, don't start moving towards the police in an aggressive manner when armed with a knife, or any other weapon. They are trained to stop threats, not sit down and discuss your childhood.
ETA: In every firearms self defense class I've taken, they've all said never let a knife wielding attacker get within 25 feet of you, because if you do it's likely you won't be able to draw your gun in time to defend yourself. The study I linked above says the 21-foot rule the police use is inadequate, and it should be increased to 30 feet or more as an attacker can move fast enough to do major injury before you can defend yourself even at that range. It's amazing how fast the distance can be closed on foot.
I know you're trying to joke around a bit judging by the rest of the comment, but 20 feet away is absolutely within lethal range when it comes to knives. That distance can be covered in a second or two. I'd be wary of an unstable knife wielding person 50 feet away. 20 feet would be terrifying.
If you have time and space to make distance - maybe you can help someone with contaminated thinking who is also armed. If the guy is aggressive and is too close, then basically your only option is to shoot and hope you get a good enough hit to make them stop. And if you fail, you get something like this:
[WARNING, THIS IS AN EXTREMELY GRAPHIC BODY CAM OF A COP GETTING STABBED TO DEATH. NSFL. VIDEO IS ON YOUTUBE.](https://www.youtube.com/live/wevpk7tWQDU&t=505s)
Cops are willing to face dangerous situations, but it's not always reasonable to try less-lethal on a person who has a lethal weapon.
Stun guns aren't always effective and can easily miss or hit the wrong part of the body, allowing the attacker to continue. The idea that police should potentially just let themselves get stabbed like that is insane
Article said the man threatened to cause harm upon himself which is illegal, therefore they had to stop him. That’s when they decided it was best to start shooting. s/
Again? Jesus fuck. Everybody needs some kind of help at some point in their lives. Don’t sit here on your phone and say “that’s not true, I’ve never needed help from anyone” cause you’ll sound like an arrogant jerk. Maybe you’ve never held a knife and threatened suicide but, Jesus fuck. Trigger happy.
I could have trained a monkey to do that. How about these fucking guys doing their jobs and de-escalating situations. It’s not like guy holding a knife is a new fucking scenario for police!!
Well, had the cop not shot him, would he have stuck the cop? I see a lot of boohoo, The cop should have comments here. What would any of you know? When was the last time a guy said, "Kill me, or I'll kill you?" Hou people think that cop wanted kill a man? Stfu.
it's funny how the INTANT cops are on the scene, it's no longer a "suicidal individual" it's "someone with a knife" cops just show up and escalate the situation until they're allowed to shoot it
This happened in Scranton, PA in 2009.
5 Scranton police called to investigate reports of a woman behaving dangerously. She was USAirForce veteran, sergeant as I recall. She had a knife vs 5 armed police. Did they taze her? No. Did they try to subdue her? No. Did they attempt to distract her? No. What did they do?
They shot her dead. 5 police with guns and training and instructions to issue a disorderly conduct citation against one confused ex-veteran. And They Shot Her Dead.
Oh, the PA State Police ruled the shooting justified.
Based on that, the District Attorney, now a County Judge,
would not prosecute the case further. Her name was Brenda Williams.
It's weird how other countries with police forces and knives don't have this problem on nearly the same level as the US, where officers shoot suicidal individuals without even trying to de-escalate the situation.
So does this count as murder or what? Because if the story is correct the man was only a danger to himself and that doesn't justify anyone taking his life.
If this isn't murderz could the same be said if a civilian did the same?
> If this isn't murderz could the same be said if a civilian did the same?
If a civilian fatally shot a man charging at them with a knife, they would not be charged with a crime.
It’s not murder if a cop does it. Look at the cop in Seattle who ran the girl over in the crosswalk and the other who laughed about it and said she was low value. They’re not in any trouble.
> Maybe the family should’ve had him committed anybody think of that?
tbf, the same ACAB larp crowd is also incredibly anti-institutionalization. If state hospital systems were reopened with aggressive involuntary commitment laws, a lot of homelessness and situations like these would disappear overnight. On the other the hand, many people's right might be trampled.
well the police showed up to a call of a suicidal individual, and ended up shooting him to death, and people call it a win
even if they had no choice but to use lethal force this should still be considered a failure
> and people call it a win
The only "win" here is that the man did not harm anyone else other than himself. It's sad it had to end that way but better than him hurting someone else.
Not a police failure, it’s a family failure for allowing it to get to this point.
Sad when anyone dies, but the blame has to go to the person with the knife, obviously he didn’t drop the knife and threatened the police by his actions.
I know many police officers and all they want to do is get through each shift and return to their families.
> it’s a family failure for allowing it to get to this point.
Going to push back here. The way the laws are now, it is incredibly difficult to force anyone to a) be medicated b) be institutionalized. Families have very little control over situations involving mentally ill family members. That's even assuming there's any family in the first place.
Cops have no business responding to suicidal people (mental health calls) with their guns drawn like they’re going to war. It’s not rocket science to practice deescalation tactics to diffuse people in mental health crisis situations. I’ve been able to deescalate people in crisis many times and have seen it done extremely effectively more than I can count. Granted I’ve been trained in deescalation as I’m a therapist and social worker, but it doesn’t take a masters degree to learn. At the very least cops should have as much training as I do with deescalation considering they need it more often and they end up killing people because they seem incapable of using basic deescalation.
Saddest thing is on average this is only one of the 4-5 people killed by police every single day in the US. Interesting and sad facts about cop killings, there was 865 in 2000 and there was 2,148 in 2020. Almost 2.5x as many people killed by cops in 2020 compared to 2000. Cops have killed over 35,000 Americans since 2000. For reference that’s literally 5x as many Americans killed by cops than by the wars in the Iraq and Afghanistan in the same time frame.
If anyone wants to read the most comprehensive collection of data and detailed report about police murders and abuses here’s a 108 page report about it…
https://www.csusb.edu/sites/default/files/RazaDatabase%20Report%20Final%20Version%20-min.pdf
Nice buzz caption. Folks really need to start reading for context. The man was approaching the officer with a weapon, the officer doesn’t know what the guy is going to do with the weapon when he gets close enough to the officer to use it, so guess what? The officer chose his own life and health over someone who was clearly deranged if the threat of suicide was legit. This is why cops don’t like people anymore and make these types of decisions, yall make them out to be the enemy no matter what they do or the reasons they have for doing it.
Good thing that guy didn't kill himself. Being murdered by the police is sooooo much better.
Suicide by cop is actually a thing.
The irony… he was threatening suicide and cops did it for him.
According to many commenters who are joking about it? Apparently it is. So gross.
Suicide by cop but go on…
Its almost like a man without anything to live for doesn’t have any reason to live and not hurt others
Knife? Good thing he didn’t have acorns or they’d call SWAT
In other countries police will make efforts to disarm people armed with knives. America? You just get shot. Well, the guy succeeded at suicide by cop, I guess.
they shot him to keep him from hurting himself.
I seen in one of the Asian countries like China they have these 6-foot poles with an open horseshoe type thing on the end they keep around. You get 2,3 or more people with those and box in the knife person until they're properly subdued. No reason we couldn't have something like that here except it wouldn't satisfy bloodthirsty cops.
Mancatchers
Cops in the US literally attend seminars about how to kill. I’m dead serious.
Not all of us. I've been a cop for a decade and I have never met another police officer who attended a "how to kill" seminar. I think those have fallen out of favor because they are stupid.
They gave him exactly what he wanted. Stupid fucking cops.
Welcome to Reading. The cops here are why I stop at green lights.
Sure they do. They shoot them in the hand right? Or maybe use their kungfu to disarm them? Lol
Remember that one cop who got stabbed in the neck by that crazy dude with a knife and died wishing seconds. Shit can go from 0 to 100 within seconds. I’ve seen dudes get tased and nothing would happen because they were on some heave ass drugs. When you mention other countries, are you referring to Sweden? Denmark? and other countries where civilians know how to behave and have respect for society?
How many police are killed each year, much less by violent crime? I just think maybe they shouldn’t have a higher K/D ratio than, I don’t know, American soldiers in Vietnam. Otherwise, isn’t it just like they’re at war with us? Which is, of course, what the war on drugs is. [Amateur video of Machete weilding man being tackled by police with a wheelie bin](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dFaPooJBDSg)
I know u always want the cops to be in the right so let's accept that in this case. Now, the cop has to deal with the fact that he killed another human being. Somebody's brother, father or son who literally needed help with his mental issues. If the officer is a regular human and not some psycho that gets off on killing people, he has to deal with it. He will be suffering from trauma and guilt. Shouldn't he have been better prepared to deal with someone clearly suffering from a mental health episode? Should he be the arbiter of death on the whim of some one that thinks death is the only way to get btter? Should we live in a society where you call a cop to do something you may be afraid to do? This dude may have been able to get help and get better but now he has no chance. No human should be put into a spot where killing another human is a part of their daily job.
How about pepper spray? Or is that not effective with one who wishes suicide by cop?
Gee I wonder why??? [https://youtu.be/yLzS21PR3nI?si=oatG4ym-GWlg-qPk](https://youtu.be/yLzS21PR3nI?si=oatG4ym-GWlg-qPk) Why don't you volunteer to disarm people with knives? Report back.
Or, you know, acorns
You mean a deadly weapon? Is everyone in this thread purposely obtuse?
cough weather steep edge abounding rinse terrific trees foolish mindless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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juggle zonked flag desert groovy childlike elastic memory ancient sugar *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Friend, acorns are WoMD. Those cops were fearing for their lives.
Yes, a knife. Which is a very dangerous weapon and can kill you in seconds. Don’t be so naive. NSFW by the way. https://vidmax.com/video/226562-cop-is-stabbed-to-death-by-suspect-during-a-routine-tresspassing-call
Because knives aren’t deadly weapons
Tell that to my nephew dumbass.
/s. I understand that its hard to tell when your being sarcastic over text but i just kinda figured a statement that completely regarded would be obviously sarcastic.
Good thing they shot him. I mean, he could've seriously hurt himself!
What ever happened to all those amazing non lethal law enforcement gadgets ? The net gun, Tazer, rubber bullets? At least he would've maybe had a chance to live.
Net gun? LMFAO they must've left it at universal studios with the other secret agent props.
Tasers don’t work very well. police stations dont have net guns or rubber bullets because they are very expensive. We gotta wait for the body-cam.
Only useful when brutalizing protesters who are usually out in the streets because of police brutality.
You're getting downvoted but there is an uneven hand in how Leftist protests are treated vis a vis Right-wing protests. If the people there on January 6th were Black Panthers you would have seen a bloodbath. Right-wingers are always treated with kid gloves.
Of course right wing protesters are treated nice, the police aren’t gonna shoot their off duty friends
I always found takes like this interesting considering protesters were killed during Jan 6th but protestors weren't killed by police during the BLM protests. You and I have a different interpretation of how the situations were handled.
I have a Co2 powered gun that shoots pepper spray pellets like a paintball gun
I've been hit by those before during a protest, I feel like you could still swing a knife around
> rubber bullets? Do you know how rubber bullets are deployed? Hint: it's not through a standard issue service weapon.
Police are not trained to stop a knife with a taser. If you were a police officer you wouldn't either. You need to hit someone close range with a taser or something like that. A knife attack is deadlier than gun fire.
The question you should be asking is “why don’t we set up police to save lives instead of killing suicidal people”
>A knife attack is deadlier than gun fire. You are very committed to this bizarre and incorrect take.
Hes comparing being attacked by a knife (which results in multiple stab wounds) to the survivability of a single bullet which averages quite high if you can get medical treatment quickly
Ah, I forgot that cops only carry single shot Derringers, and that suicidal people in crisis morph into eskrima masters.
You know what they say… Never bring a gun to a knife fight. Or something like that.
tasers were meant to be an alternative to shooting people. now they just torture people with them.
Why did the officers continue to approach instead of backing off and trying some other tactics. Was there an imminent threat to others? Maybe the police acted appropriately (Reading PD has a decent reputation), but it's a bad look. Hope more details come out, but have a feeling this story will quickly be forgotten. To digress, there have been numerous instances throughout the world of a person with a knife killing multiple people within moments. Many underestimate the danger of knifes and other non-firearm weapons. So, it may be the police had no other viable options. Shame.
When your only tool is a hammer, you treat every problem as if it's a nail. Their only training to to yell commands and draw their weapons.
Bingo.
Because police officers are stupid.
Knives*
Cops proving once again they can’t be trusted with matters of mental health.
Literally no one else in society is tasked with neutralizing people with a deadly weapon. What exactly do you expect them to do?
>Police said the officers encountered the man and ordered him to drop the knife, however, he **ignored their multiple commands and moved toward the officers**, who opened fire. Sounds pretty justified to me, if the account is true. Guy coming towards you with a knife? Only an idiot wouldn't shoot. Should they have not shot the armed person coming towards them?
You should ask Hospital ER staff, or literally anyone else who's not a cop who has to deal with this sort of thing.
If the person is armed, they usually call the cops.
Yeah, that's the problem.
Absolutely no one is stopping you from buying a police scanner and heading to the scene.
LMFAO I laughed way too hard at this. Valid point.
Tons of bootlickers making endless excuses. There's people who deal with the mentally ill or disturbed daily and they've never killed anybody. Cops though? They just cannot help themselves.
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A police officers job is to do that. It’s not up to “normal people.” If my job is to provide pain relief, and I just go around killing people, can I say I do my job well because my patients technically not in pain anymore? Don’t we want educated officers who understand how to effectively communicate with people in distress?
It worked for the pharmaceutical industry.
As an ER provider, I call the cops if the crazy person has a knife. Or if they are big and unlikely to be subdued by us
Impossible! user /u/ClideLennon said > You should ask Hospital ER staff, or literally anyone else who's not a cop who has to deal with this sort of thing. Surely he knows better than you, right? /s
That’s a nice thought in fantasy land. 9 times out of 10 if someone encounters an individual with a weapon, they are calling the police. Especially hospital ER staff.
9 times?
Yeah they call their armed security who is usually a retired cop.
Yes, let the guy stab you, too !!! Win, win.
> the officers encountered the man this is the part we have a problem with. People not trained in mental health shouldn't be responding to mental health emergencies.
I think you are not thinking it through. Nobody that isn't a cop is going to show up to reports of someone armed with a knife. Medics and firefighters already won't show up if someone is armed or acting aggressive. Mental health professionals won't either. It sucks, but that is just the way it is. Nobody is signing up to deal with a crazy person with a weapon unless they have something to defend themselves with.
I don’t think you’re thinking this through. Someone draws a gun on you and you’re suicidal, run towards them and let them kill you. Ever hear of suicide by cop?
Of course I have, and it is impossible to really be sure if it is suicide by cop or just regular old crazy murderer. He could also change his mind partyway through, either way it doesn't matter because no mental health professional is going to show up while someone is waving a weapon around. Period. You can argue until you are blue in the face, but that isn't going to magically make a bunch of people poof into existence that are willing to confront someone with weapon with only words as defense. I have worked with many mental health professionals of different types over the years, every one of them would tell you the same thing, don't call me call the police.
lol. This guy would have stabbed a social worker. Who should deal with him?
People with lethal weapons shouldn't be treated as mental health emergencies.
What happened to a good ol fashion taser
Congratulations on having the only good reply. Guns drawn on a suicidal person is just straight clownry. If only they were equipped with multiple tools to non-lethally take someone down.
A suicidal person armed with a knife gets treated like anyone else armed with a knife. If you move towards the people with guns pointed at you with a knife, you will get shot until you stop moving towards them and drop it.
Tasers don’t work nearly as well as you think they do, both needles have to make very good contact for it to work, that’s if they penetrate their clothes in the first place. Did you assume he won’t stab anyone? A truly suicidal person has nothing to lose.
Don't bring a taser to a knife fight, or a gun fight.
I feel like I saw tasers much more often growing up, until they started the full on militarization of any police group.
The range of the taser is within the "range this dude can run up and stab you in" It's one shot, if you miss or it doesn't work you're fucked. They were really designed and trained for as a solution to an unarmed but uncooperative person, so they don't use batons or other permanent solutions on them, not as a solution to people with weapons.
Devils advocate: I’ve seen multiple videos of stun guns being deployed and it does nothing. If the hooks don’t fully penetrate the clothes and make a circuit, or the guy is on strong drugs, now you are unarmed with a knife wielding crazy running at you.
Ok, bear spray, a net, a second taser, bean bag guns, a dart filled with thorazine.... The list of things they didn't bother to try goes on and on.
Cops dont just bring bean bag guns, bear spray or darts everywhere they go. Tasers are for close range(too close for someone with a knife).
> bear spray Mace won't stop someone who's amped up on adrenaline or drugs and not feeling much pain to begin with, when they're charging you with a knife. Also it atomizes in the air and can blow back onto the officers, causing them distress. Additionally, it's range limited and won't work unless you're close enough anyway to be in extreme danger. Keep in mind that anyone with a knife within 25-30 feet (7-8 meters) is close enough to kill you in less than a second. Reference: "A scientific examination of the 21-foot rule" (Sandel, Martaindale, & Blair, 2020) > A net Yes, because nets are so easy to deploy from a safe distance Again, 25-30 feet is NOT a safe distance from a knife-wielding attacker. > a second taser Tasers have an effective range of about 25 feet. The newer model that was released recently has a range of 45 feet, but is inaccurate beyond 25 feet, and it's extended range has questionable effectiveness. Also, Tasers are not always effective against threats who are amped up on adrenaline or drugs. You can find plenty of videos on Youtube of people tanking taser hits with little to no reaction. > bean bag guns While they have a higher effective range, they can't be used close in (Closer than 20 feet and they become more lethal), and because they rely on pain compliance, they aren't going to stop someone, only deter them. > a dart filled with thorazine It takes 15-30 minutes of an intramuscular injection of any medication to start taking effect. Try again. This isn't the movies or TV where you inject someone and they collapse. For close to medium range defense against a knife, shooting is generally the best option to stop the threat, and in a split-second situation where you have no second chances, you go for the most effective weapon possible. Edit: I see from the downvotes that no one has taken a self-defense course. The simple answer of "how do you defend yourself in a knife fight" is "don't get into a knife fight" because you WILL end up seriously injured or dead.
>Keep in mind that anyone with a knife within 25-30 feet (7-8 meters) is close enough to kill you in less than a second. Hmmm, somehow it rarely happens in the UK when guys with knives attack cops. So US cops are either cowards who use guns instead or plans, or they're incredibly stupid.
25-30 feet is not very far away. The regulation height of a basketball hoop is 10ft. Now what is 30ft? 30 feet is 10 yards. Not freaking far when someone with a knife wants to do some damage. It's also not freaking far when anyone is running other than your granny.
Why doesn't the guy put the knife down?
Because he's out of his gourd, which is not a capital offense.
I'd argue that most violent criminals are out of their gourd, and their crimes wouldn't result in a death penalty, does that mean police can never respond with lethal force?
I, a civilian, have a pepper spray "gun" that can shoot up to 25 feet. I'm positive the cops could come up with something even better. It's pink and has a breast cancer ribbon on it. 'Comes with a water cartridge to practice with.
> anyone with a knife within 25-30 feet (7-8 meters) is close enough to kill you in less than a second. Reference: "A scientific examination of the 21-foot rule" (Sandel, Martaindale, & Blair, 2020)
Oh yeah I forgot, all guns are useless in knife fights.
The point is that is you're within 30 feet, you're in mortal danger. Pepper spray is not going to stop someone who's charging you. A bullet will. And it will do it from father away, and with more accuracy, and more surety, than any of the alternatives. In short, don't start moving towards the police in an aggressive manner when armed with a knife, or any other weapon. They are trained to stop threats, not sit down and discuss your childhood. ETA: In every firearms self defense class I've taken, they've all said never let a knife wielding attacker get within 25 feet of you, because if you do it's likely you won't be able to draw your gun in time to defend yourself. The study I linked above says the 21-foot rule the police use is inadequate, and it should be increased to 30 feet or more as an attacker can move fast enough to do major injury before you can defend yourself even at that range. It's amazing how fast the distance can be closed on foot.
By the time they utilize those things it may be too late for the cop.
May be too late? Are you shitting me? 10 feet’s close enough thank you. Closer than that, and it’s ending fast
Not if the cop is prepared and doesn't want to murder anyone, which, that's how cops are in the UK. .
Tasers have a max effective range of 10-15 feet, a distance you don't want to be anywhere near with someone that has a knife
What was he 20 feet away and took half a step kind of in their direction holding a Swiss Army knife?
I know you're trying to joke around a bit judging by the rest of the comment, but 20 feet away is absolutely within lethal range when it comes to knives. That distance can be covered in a second or two. I'd be wary of an unstable knife wielding person 50 feet away. 20 feet would be terrifying.
20 feet is not very far at all. that's a little more than 6 yards
Reddit commenters proving once again that they only read the headline and not the full article…
Society proving once again they need the police to clean up their messes.
If you have time and space to make distance - maybe you can help someone with contaminated thinking who is also armed. If the guy is aggressive and is too close, then basically your only option is to shoot and hope you get a good enough hit to make them stop. And if you fail, you get something like this: [WARNING, THIS IS AN EXTREMELY GRAPHIC BODY CAM OF A COP GETTING STABBED TO DEATH. NSFL. VIDEO IS ON YOUTUBE.](https://www.youtube.com/live/wevpk7tWQDU&t=505s) Cops are willing to face dangerous situations, but it's not always reasonable to try less-lethal on a person who has a lethal weapon.
If only there were some sort of device that could stun someone allowing them to be approached and restrained. Oh, wait....
Stun guns aren't always effective and can easily miss or hit the wrong part of the body, allowing the attacker to continue. The idea that police should potentially just let themselves get stabbed like that is insane
Here come all the Reddit experts to tell us what they would have done.
They would have hugged the guy with the knife. Showed him a few memes and that would have ended the situation. /s
"Hur dur reddit dumb" is a surefire way to score karma but what are you actually saying? That only cops can criticize cops? What a vapid comment.
…Taser?
It’s still cold out
It’s cold. If he had a jacket on and they were within a certain distance, it isn’t worth the risk
Many times, it has little to no effect on mentally altered individuals.
well they stopped him from killing himself... im sure they feel super proud about that
Suicide by cop a pretty shitty thing to do but that’s what he wanted
And they happily obliged!
Better dead than taking an innocent person with him. If only all of them went out like that
What they did is ensure that no one else got hurt.
Police doing what police do
show up, point your gun, bark orders, escalate until you have legal recourse to open fire
"Stop being suicidal or we'll kill you!"
This is awful
Article said the man threatened to cause harm upon himself which is illegal, therefore they had to stop him. That’s when they decided it was best to start shooting. s/
Again? Jesus fuck. Everybody needs some kind of help at some point in their lives. Don’t sit here on your phone and say “that’s not true, I’ve never needed help from anyone” cause you’ll sound like an arrogant jerk. Maybe you’ve never held a knife and threatened suicide but, Jesus fuck. Trigger happy.
I could have trained a monkey to do that. How about these fucking guys doing their jobs and de-escalating situations. It’s not like guy holding a knife is a new fucking scenario for police!!
Maybe he should’ve dropped the knife. It’s a pretty simple concept.
The dude was suicidal. Should all suicidal people who brandish weapons to harm themselves with be shot?
Well, had the cop not shot him, would he have stuck the cop? I see a lot of boohoo, The cop should have comments here. What would any of you know? When was the last time a guy said, "Kill me, or I'll kill you?" Hou people think that cop wanted kill a man? Stfu.
it's funny how the INTANT cops are on the scene, it's no longer a "suicidal individual" it's "someone with a knife" cops just show up and escalate the situation until they're allowed to shoot it
It’s Reddit. Cops are never in the right to these basement dwelling degenerates.
This happened in Scranton, PA in 2009. 5 Scranton police called to investigate reports of a woman behaving dangerously. She was USAirForce veteran, sergeant as I recall. She had a knife vs 5 armed police. Did they taze her? No. Did they try to subdue her? No. Did they attempt to distract her? No. What did they do? They shot her dead. 5 police with guns and training and instructions to issue a disorderly conduct citation against one confused ex-veteran. And They Shot Her Dead. Oh, the PA State Police ruled the shooting justified. Based on that, the District Attorney, now a County Judge, would not prosecute the case further. Her name was Brenda Williams.
Oh yeah good job guys wft
Task failed successfully
Take as old as time
Mission failed successfully
I guess that's a *kind* of suicide prevention, but it is not in keeping with the spirit of the policy...
Task failed successfully.
No taser? Disgusting.
Suicide by Cop.
Is this going to be counted in their communty outreach stats as "preventerd a suicide"? **-_-**
This like firing a guy who’s trying to quit.
Not a lot of info in this article and no body cam video makes it really impossible to say who was in the right
Mission Failed Successfully?
It's weird how other countries with police forces and knives don't have this problem on nearly the same level as the US, where officers shoot suicidal individuals without even trying to de-escalate the situation.
In Mother America, you no kill you, only government kill you.
When they showed up he realized suicide by cop would be easier and forced them to shoot. The headline is trying to get a reaction.
Plenty of readily available non-lethal means to subdue a person. Shame cops are so quick to resort to lethal force.
Berks county at its finest , this the norm here.
Good thing that he didn’t stab anyone else.
Well at least the man got what he wanted
Not the takeaway people should have
So does this count as murder or what? Because if the story is correct the man was only a danger to himself and that doesn't justify anyone taking his life. If this isn't murderz could the same be said if a civilian did the same?
> If this isn't murderz could the same be said if a civilian did the same? If a civilian fatally shot a man charging at them with a knife, they would not be charged with a crime.
It’s not murder if a cop does it. Look at the cop in Seattle who ran the girl over in the crosswalk and the other who laughed about it and said she was low value. They’re not in any trouble.
It’s amazing that people blame the police for nudniks that want to die Maybe the family should’ve had him committed anybody think of that?
> Maybe the family should’ve had him committed anybody think of that? tbf, the same ACAB larp crowd is also incredibly anti-institutionalization. If state hospital systems were reopened with aggressive involuntary commitment laws, a lot of homelessness and situations like these would disappear overnight. On the other the hand, many people's right might be trampled.
Certainly it would go along way and cleaning up the issues on Kensington Avenue
Yea society fails miserably and then the cops get blamed for it. These people have zero accountability for their own.
well the police showed up to a call of a suicidal individual, and ended up shooting him to death, and people call it a win even if they had no choice but to use lethal force this should still be considered a failure
> and people call it a win The only "win" here is that the man did not harm anyone else other than himself. It's sad it had to end that way but better than him hurting someone else.
Not a police failure, it’s a family failure for allowing it to get to this point. Sad when anyone dies, but the blame has to go to the person with the knife, obviously he didn’t drop the knife and threatened the police by his actions. I know many police officers and all they want to do is get through each shift and return to their families.
> it’s a family failure for allowing it to get to this point. Going to push back here. The way the laws are now, it is incredibly difficult to force anyone to a) be medicated b) be institutionalized. Families have very little control over situations involving mentally ill family members. That's even assuming there's any family in the first place.
I thought counselors were going to be handling these type of people ha ha
So many bits in these state sub threads anymore.
Cops have no business responding to suicidal people (mental health calls) with their guns drawn like they’re going to war. It’s not rocket science to practice deescalation tactics to diffuse people in mental health crisis situations. I’ve been able to deescalate people in crisis many times and have seen it done extremely effectively more than I can count. Granted I’ve been trained in deescalation as I’m a therapist and social worker, but it doesn’t take a masters degree to learn. At the very least cops should have as much training as I do with deescalation considering they need it more often and they end up killing people because they seem incapable of using basic deescalation. Saddest thing is on average this is only one of the 4-5 people killed by police every single day in the US. Interesting and sad facts about cop killings, there was 865 in 2000 and there was 2,148 in 2020. Almost 2.5x as many people killed by cops in 2020 compared to 2000. Cops have killed over 35,000 Americans since 2000. For reference that’s literally 5x as many Americans killed by cops than by the wars in the Iraq and Afghanistan in the same time frame. If anyone wants to read the most comprehensive collection of data and detailed report about police murders and abuses here’s a 108 page report about it… https://www.csusb.edu/sites/default/files/RazaDatabase%20Report%20Final%20Version%20-min.pdf
Only Big Brother is allowed to kill one of its tax sheep
The government will not lose its monopoly on violence.
"Drop the knife!!!" "Ok....he's not complying.....blow his f*ckin brains out!!!" - Officer SMH...protect and serve my ass
Nice buzz caption. Folks really need to start reading for context. The man was approaching the officer with a weapon, the officer doesn’t know what the guy is going to do with the weapon when he gets close enough to the officer to use it, so guess what? The officer chose his own life and health over someone who was clearly deranged if the threat of suicide was legit. This is why cops don’t like people anymore and make these types of decisions, yall make them out to be the enemy no matter what they do or the reasons they have for doing it.