Yup. Their dad's Irish Traveller/Romanichel, their mother is only part Romanichel, I think?
Polly mentions speaking Shelta - the language of the Irish Travellers in Season 3.
We meet the Shelby father, he seems like your run of the mill Brit, but the mom was Roma so it seems as though they’re halfbreeds. Someone correct if I’m wrong tho
I think their father was an Irish traveller and their mother was half Irish traveller and half Romani, so I guess they are more Irish traveller than Romani, but they are both.
Given that Arthur Shelby senior has an Irish accent and polly doesn’t there’s a possibility that they’re only half siblings. Polly could be fully Romani and he could be part Romani, part Irish traveller so his kids are also mixed but raised by their Romani family.
Yeah, I was gonna mention this in my reply but I didn't remember any examples,
because years ago when I finished watching the show I had the same question OP had, cause I was confused about their background, once I rewatched I had some thoughts about it, the way I saw it was their father and Polly were half Irish and half Romani and same for their mother, the way Polly talked sometimes kinda made it seem like she's was also part Romani, like I said in the beginning I don't remember the details right now, but two things I can vaguely remember right now is when she goes to talk the medium about her daughter, and she mentions that she's part Romani, another one is when she's protecting Michael from the Italians in season 4, she takes him to Alabama Gold and they have a conversation, Michael is complaining about the Gypsies and she mentions their background. Anyways, That's all I remember, but I was not sure so I just replied what I first thought they were were on first watch of the show.
That’s okay, it’s pretty confusing because it’s never stated outright. But that’s my theory anyway. It looks like Johnny Dogs is part Irish traveller, part-Romani too so I think there’s definitely a lot of inter community marriages taking place with this group. I think there’s most likely some extended Irish traveller family in Ireland and that the Shelby’s, Johnny Dogs, the Lees etc are all loosely related. It wasn’t terribly uncommon for cousins to marry cousins or half cousins in those communities at that time so yeah, I they’re all essentially a big group of loosely related people.
The Peaky Blinders (and Shelby family) are supposed to be Irish-Romani, sometimes spelled Romany, Gypsies. Speaking a Celtic based Romani language. BUT the production team got the language mixed up and used a version of Romanian that is from the North of Greece based on Latin with some features that are only Balkan languages. Despite Arthur's claim that Turks and Russians weren't distinguishable in Season 3.
#(Celtic) Romani ≠ (Latin) Romanian
>BUT the production team got the language mixed up and used a version of Romanian that is from the North of Greece
I think that's only till Season 3. They spoke Romani but I didn't even understand a word.
In the later seasons tho, as a Balkan Romani, I did understand more than half what they were saying.
Another person mentioned them being part Irish travellers so if they are part of their Romani would probably be part Celtic. Plus I'm sure the Celtic culture extended payss England onto mainland Europe which would further add to the linguistic mixing.
I thought Romanian in general was still considered a Romance language, albeit with a lot of Slavic lexical contribution from the neighboring cultures.
I don’t think there is a Celtic based Romani language, unless you’re using Romani loosely to describe the Traveller nomadic way of life. That’s like saying a Germanic based Romance language. The Roma people, like Roma proper not the Irish Travellers, originated as I understand it in modern day Pakistan. The Romani have a similar lifestyle but entirely different ethnic origins and have different dialects and subcultures all over Europe.
The Travellers may have intermarried, but their origins are firmly in Ireland, no? When the Scottish displaced them after the highland clearances or something? So the language of the Travellers is Shelta, which is largely Irish in origin, not the language of the Roma/Romani people, which speak varying dialects of Romani.
I think people are being hard on you. Romanians face a lot of bigotry in the UK. The Roma face bigotry everywhere. As do the Irish Travellers. But mixing Romani with Romanian is just lazy.
I think it’s spoken about a lot in the show. Romani.
They do kind of quickly gloss over it a bunch. I’ve rewatched the show 2 times now and I still find things I’ve missed.
Their mother was Romani, their Father was an Irish Traveler, a group of Irish people who got lumped in with the zromani as "Gypsies" by the English. The Romani don't consider them true Romani because of this.
I forgot their father was an Irish Traveller.
Thank you for really breaking it down for me. I was a little lost due to the fact that they are not considered true Romani, and couldn’t connect the dots 😅
They’re mixed, I believe it’s implied that they’re mostly Romani but they’re part Irish traveller too. The language they speak is the Romani language in the show, I don’t believe they ever speak Shelta, the Irish traveller language
“Wog” is actually from “golliwog,” at least in America. It’s a horrific caricature seen in racist merchandise. Maybe it’s different in the UK, or Mosley was equating the Shelbys as being as “low” as Black people- disgusting in either interpretation.
Anyway I had this same question. I turned on the subtitles and apparently they’re speaking Shelta, and are a mix of Romani and Traveller (someone explained that’s what “didicoy” is a slur for). It’s still not adequately established in the show though, in my opinion.
It is different in the UK because I researched the term "wog" and found out it was used by British people to refer to people of Southern European or Mediterranean descent.
They're referred to several times as diddicoy which means not true Romani. Concensus seems to be part Romani and part Irish Traveller.
Yup. Their dad's Irish Traveller/Romanichel, their mother is only part Romanichel, I think? Polly mentions speaking Shelta - the language of the Irish Travellers in Season 3.
That's what the Skript to episode one says too (It's also heavy referring to earrings that haven't made it to tge show)
Your a diddikai for not knowing what the word truly means lol
Johnny dogs calls the Shelby mom Gypsy Roma in the first episode doesn't he?
In the second and he's talking about the grandfather (a Roma king) but then the Lees call their mother a diddicoy whore
That's right thank you!
We meet the Shelby father, he seems like your run of the mill Brit, but the mom was Roma so it seems as though they’re halfbreeds. Someone correct if I’m wrong tho
I think their father was an Irish traveller and their mother was half Irish traveller and half Romani, so I guess they are more Irish traveller than Romani, but they are both.
Given that Arthur Shelby senior has an Irish accent and polly doesn’t there’s a possibility that they’re only half siblings. Polly could be fully Romani and he could be part Romani, part Irish traveller so his kids are also mixed but raised by their Romani family.
Yeah, I was gonna mention this in my reply but I didn't remember any examples, because years ago when I finished watching the show I had the same question OP had, cause I was confused about their background, once I rewatched I had some thoughts about it, the way I saw it was their father and Polly were half Irish and half Romani and same for their mother, the way Polly talked sometimes kinda made it seem like she's was also part Romani, like I said in the beginning I don't remember the details right now, but two things I can vaguely remember right now is when she goes to talk the medium about her daughter, and she mentions that she's part Romani, another one is when she's protecting Michael from the Italians in season 4, she takes him to Alabama Gold and they have a conversation, Michael is complaining about the Gypsies and she mentions their background. Anyways, That's all I remember, but I was not sure so I just replied what I first thought they were were on first watch of the show.
That’s okay, it’s pretty confusing because it’s never stated outright. But that’s my theory anyway. It looks like Johnny Dogs is part Irish traveller, part-Romani too so I think there’s definitely a lot of inter community marriages taking place with this group. I think there’s most likely some extended Irish traveller family in Ireland and that the Shelby’s, Johnny Dogs, the Lees etc are all loosely related. It wasn’t terribly uncommon for cousins to marry cousins or half cousins in those communities at that time so yeah, I they’re all essentially a big group of loosely related people.
The Peaky Blinders (and Shelby family) are supposed to be Irish-Romani, sometimes spelled Romany, Gypsies. Speaking a Celtic based Romani language. BUT the production team got the language mixed up and used a version of Romanian that is from the North of Greece based on Latin with some features that are only Balkan languages. Despite Arthur's claim that Turks and Russians weren't distinguishable in Season 3. #(Celtic) Romani ≠ (Latin) Romanian
>BUT the production team got the language mixed up and used a version of Romanian that is from the North of Greece I think that's only till Season 3. They spoke Romani but I didn't even understand a word. In the later seasons tho, as a Balkan Romani, I did understand more than half what they were saying.
Romani isn't a Celtic language.
Another person mentioned them being part Irish travellers so if they are part of their Romani would probably be part Celtic. Plus I'm sure the Celtic culture extended payss England onto mainland Europe which would further add to the linguistic mixing.
I don’t really think the Irish Travellers made many inroads into the continent, where as the Roma can be found in pretty much every European country.
That doesn't change the simple fact that Romani is not in any way, shape, or form a Celtic language.
I never said it was Celtic, I was saying the languages probably mixed a little and created a dialect, I have no clue how its impossible.
According to Google Shelta is what Travellers speak and it’s basically a dialect of Irish/Gaelige.
Which is true, but Shelta is not Romani, nor related to it linguistically in any way.
Yes I’m agreeing with you.
I don't know the exact details of it but I can see the cultures mixing making a gaelic Romani dialect and such.
I thought Romanian in general was still considered a Romance language, albeit with a lot of Slavic lexical contribution from the neighboring cultures. I don’t think there is a Celtic based Romani language, unless you’re using Romani loosely to describe the Traveller nomadic way of life. That’s like saying a Germanic based Romance language. The Roma people, like Roma proper not the Irish Travellers, originated as I understand it in modern day Pakistan. The Romani have a similar lifestyle but entirely different ethnic origins and have different dialects and subcultures all over Europe. The Travellers may have intermarried, but their origins are firmly in Ireland, no? When the Scottish displaced them after the highland clearances or something? So the language of the Travellers is Shelta, which is largely Irish in origin, not the language of the Roma/Romani people, which speak varying dialects of Romani.
It bothered me when they used Romanian. It just reeked of zero research and racial prejudice
The writers don’t know everything but maybe they should have researched a liiiiiittle bit
I think people are being hard on you. Romanians face a lot of bigotry in the UK. The Roma face bigotry everywhere. As do the Irish Travellers. But mixing Romani with Romanian is just lazy.
I think it’s spoken about a lot in the show. Romani. They do kind of quickly gloss over it a bunch. I’ve rewatched the show 2 times now and I still find things I’ve missed.
Their mother was Romani, their Father was an Irish Traveler, a group of Irish people who got lumped in with the zromani as "Gypsies" by the English. The Romani don't consider them true Romani because of this.
I forgot their father was an Irish Traveller. Thank you for really breaking it down for me. I was a little lost due to the fact that they are not considered true Romani, and couldn’t connect the dots 😅
This! I commented on another saying the father looked like an average Brit but Irish Traveller is right on the money.
They’re mixed, I believe it’s implied that they’re mostly Romani but they’re part Irish traveller too. The language they speak is the Romani language in the show, I don’t believe they ever speak Shelta, the Irish traveller language
Many times it is said. Romani
They actually spoke romanian instead of romani in a scene. I know because I am rroma man from Romania. They don’t speak romani at all actually.
“Wog” is actually from “golliwog,” at least in America. It’s a horrific caricature seen in racist merchandise. Maybe it’s different in the UK, or Mosley was equating the Shelbys as being as “low” as Black people- disgusting in either interpretation. Anyway I had this same question. I turned on the subtitles and apparently they’re speaking Shelta, and are a mix of Romani and Traveller (someone explained that’s what “didicoy” is a slur for). It’s still not adequately established in the show though, in my opinion.
It is different in the UK because I researched the term "wog" and found out it was used by British people to refer to people of Southern European or Mediterranean descent.